I'm finding Aminatou very intriguing and I'm liking all the new planeswalker commanders pretty well, except Estrid. My dislike of her honestly has nothing to do with her not being Serra, being female, being human, nor anything about her colors or theme... part of it is that without even a blurb thus far she's very bland and I have no reason to care/feel anything about her, but then there's also just something about her art that is very off-putting to me. Her head seems too large for her body, and there's some weirdness going on with her eyes. It has a very unsettling uncanny-valley-ish quality to it that makes me not really want to look at it.
And since I have no reason lore-wise to like her, and reason art-wise to not like her, until we learn anything about her that might balance out the art, she'll be my least favorite of the bunch by far.
I'm finding Aminatou very intriguing and I'm liking all the new planeswalker commanders pretty well, except Estrid. My dislike of her honestly has nothing to do with her not being Serra, being female, being human, nor anything about her colors or theme... part of it is that without even a blurb thus far she's very bland and I have no reason to care/feel anything about her, but then there's also just something about her art that is very off-putting to me. Her head seems too large for her body, and there's some weirdness going on with her eyes. It has a very unsettling uncanny-valley-ish quality to it that makes me not really want to look at it.
And since I have no reason lore-wise to like her, and reason art-wise to not like her, until we learn anything about her that might balance out the art, she'll be my least favorite of the bunch by far.
My problem with Estrid’s art is that it doesn’t convey any kind of emotion. In Saheeli’s art you get the joy she feels in creating and tinkering. In Aminatou’s they somehow nuanced the fascination and a little bit of menace in a little girl. Lord windgrace just looks awesome and I’m going to buy a single of him even though I don’t have a home for him. But estrid just looks board while walking in a barren and blech landscape. No joy, no menace, just board.
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Embrace the dark you call a home,
Gaze upon an empty, white throne
A legacy of lies,
A familiar disguise
Sing with me a song of conquest and fate
The black pillar cracks beneath its weight
Night breaks through the day, hard as a stone
Lost in thoughts all alone
Yes, Estrid is pretty bland, but I think this is partially because she was only in the set after they couldn’t make Tamiyo work as the commander, and may have been a bit late in production.
Watch the interview for more info
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Wizards. listen. The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
Honestly I don't think there really are (or had been) any real "rules" for it, at the very least for the majority of Magic's existence. It was just "whatever/whoever" served the purpose of plot, without regard for any sort of internal consistency.
Any attempts to unify those events into any sort of coherent "this is how a spark happens," by either the fanbase or WotC itself, is trying to apply itself retroactively to events that were never written with those guidelines in mind.
Edit: But I also agree that Aminatou's powerset as a whole has the potential to be absurdly powerful. Sure, it may be contained atm by her capricious childlike nature, but the implications of an adult (or heaven forbid a teenager) with her power are just mind boggling.
Aminatou (Ah-mee-NAH-too) is our youngest planeswalker! Originally we wanted her name to be a variant on Amina/Aminatu, after the Hausa Warrior Queen. After seeing Seb's art we went with the Malian spelling since that is a mudcloth-inspired print on her dress...Aminatou's in-world powers are forward facing, meaning she affects the destinies that lie ahead rather than manipulating chronology that has already occurred. She can't change outcomes that are already determined. The good news is that she's still eight, so she's more concerned with using her abilities for little things than altering anything major. It's still probably best to make sure she's happy if she crosses your path, though.
(Bold mine)
So it looks like creative could always say that something in fate is fixed so she can't mess around with it and she dosnt have retcon powers so she can't change anything after the fact.
Nobody cares about the implications of the fact that Aminatou just chose to ignite her spark because she knew it would happen one day?
I just found it funny, though I wonder if this does mean she could alter the fate of people to make sure they spark/ keep them from sparking.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I find Estrid's blankness intriguing. She is meant to be mysterious and spooky. Hopefully she will someday actually play a role in a story. The idea someone mentioned a couple pages back re: Theros and Elspeth, is an intriguing one.
I'm fine with waiting for an accurate Serra. I'm not fine with Not Serra being stupid. They could have done Planeswalker sub-generals with a mono-white Serra. Overall, Serra is lower on my list of priorities than Kamigawa legends anyway (my new goal with Arixmethes finished) so it's not a big deal. But Not Serra is as forgettable as reading a dissertation on lesbian dance theory after a heroin binge at an Alzheimer's facility.
Aaaaaand after the brief yet powerful endorphine Arixmethes-related explosion, Jenrik is back to his annoying self. The balance of the world is restored.
Now, seriously. What 5colors said is true. They wanted the commander of the deck to fulfill a specific role. They also needed it to be Bant-colored. They considered using past character. They even say that in the preview article.
So the possibilities were basically to make a Bant Serra who will not at all be what we expect Serra to be (just the name slapped on it as 5colors says), or use someone else. If anything, they could have used Daria, because well, the only non-Homelands card she is ever quoted and only one where she is ever depicted (Aura Blast) is related to enchantments. She would even be an easily justified fit to Bant colors.
Suggesting that they made a planeswalker sub-commander is just silly. They want walkers as face cards, period.
I can feel your toxic disappointment in Estrid as clearly as your nerdgasming above Arixmethes, but please do not spew around things like "because she will never be in any stories ever", because that is, frankly, a kindergarten-level statement.
At least they already gave Aminatou a short bio... not even that for Estrid?
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And seriously, how many of the Mary Sue characters from Commander products made it into the story? I say this as someone who loves Riku of Two Reflections. Not that I care to see many. Animatou may possibly appear at some point, since she's a unique PW, and given the attention she's had. Regardless, if they really did say in the article that they considered a past character and couldn't think of a Bant walker, then it makes sense. I believe it too, since I can't think of any. And Serra shoehorned into Bant when we all know she's mono-white isn't ideal, as I've said. Again, she's not the highest on my priority list.
Her powers over fate could diminish with age, I suppose.
Yes, Estrid is pretty bland, but I think this is partially because she was only in the set after they couldn’t make Tamiyo work as the commander, and may have been a bit late in production.
Is that from the interview with Gavin?
If yes, that basically confirms some suspicions I already had. I mean, there's really no reason for her to be this bland. She's the face planeswalker of a Commander deck with an unprecedented theme. Why wouldn't you want to make her appear interesting? Just look at how much love Aminatou got. There's no way Estrid would look like she looks if she had been concepted from an early stage on. She's a planeswalker that makes masks and uses them to change forms and skill sets. She could have been our first shapeshifter planeswalker, maybe without a "real" definitive form herself, always relying on the masks for a corporeal form or something like that. Maybe we'll never be a 100% sure, but her art really does look like it was commissioned rather late in the production process, when there was no time left anymore to work out the details for her character.
Her uncanny valley eyes are interesting though. The first thing that sprang to mind when I saw a closeup of her face on the mothership was Duplicants.
As I've already said in the other threads, I love Aminatou's character design but the way her whole character and magic is described irks me. They relly went overboard with her.
-Nice call back to Khan fall where it ended with Yasovain the shaman cave caring the story.
-Naiva being controlled by Bolas it looks like, setting up another parallel between the twins, Bolas and Ugin and the two brothers Bolas tried his mind magic out on
-Okay enough frame story flashback time!
-So it looks like Ugin really took to Tarkir basally pulling a Serra and becoming a god of the plane and it said to have made the life on the plane. Also mentions Tarkir is Ugins soul home.
-So Ugin pops in on Dominaria and is again hurt to see his brother took over the dragon kill village and decided to explore the multiverse trying to escape the feeling of hurt.
-Ugin is quite the explorer, going to Zenikdar, Innistrad, Lorwyn, Shandalar and what seem to be pre-shard Alara
-Hmmm I wonder if Ugin is a spirt dragon by now, mentioning that he uses all 5 colors of mana and Bolas thinks him a ghost (tho he dose think Ugin was killed).
-Yeah sure Bolas you did the whole elder dragon war for Ugin. It looks like Bolas dosnt just twist other peoples thoughts and feelings.
-I love the parallel of how Bolas thinking he's all knowing by seeing all of Dominaria and Ugin having knowledge of other worlds from the early story of Ugin knowing of the other lands of Dominaria before Bolas.
-Again Bolas is twisting things to his own ends and tries to makes Ugin out to be the bad guy for not wanting to talk to Bolas after Bolas tired to mind control Ugin
-So many parallels in this story I can't keep up, love the repeating elements Kate Elliott put in this stories.
-With all the Timey-whimey stuff going on in Tarkir during this time, I'm not a fan of Bolas showing up to try and finished off Ugin, which we already know doesn't work.
With the talk between Ugin and Bolas I wonder if Bolas somehow steals the demon leviathan spark to become a walker. It would explain the choice to show him at the Talon Gate in his new card art and since a lot of us have are guessing he going to try and steal sparks during his final plan on Ravnica, it would be a nice set up for that.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
-With all the Timey-whimey stuff going on in Tarkir during this time, I'm not a fan of Bolas showing up to try and finished off Ugin, which we already know doesn't work.
Yeah, I guess this is their way of creating stakes in a flashback time period, but like you said, we already know it isn't going to work. It's likely that something happens in this storyline that makes Bolas think that Ugin really is dead for good, since Bolas mentions being surprised by the reemergence of Ugin during his little speech during the Hour of Devastation storyline.
But yeah, stakes are definitely low for this storyline because we already know that Ugin lives.
With the talk between Ugin and Bolas I wonder if Bolas somehow steals the demon leviathan spark to become a walker. It would explain the choice to show him at the Talon Gate in his new card art and since a lot of us have are guessing he going to try and steal sparks during his final plan on Ravnica, it would be a nice set up for that.
Now that you mention it, the card art definitely implies as much, doesn't it? That would seem very Bolas-y, too: planeswalking demon leviathan arrives in Bolas' backyard, Bolas challenges him, believing that he's the greatest there is. Of course, Bolas starts losing, and relies on his mind manipulation to defeat him. Bolas devours him and absorbs his powers, and somehow absorbs the leviathan's spark. In short, Bolas wants something he doesn't have, and he just steals it from someone else instead of creating it himself or just accepting that he doesn't get everything he wants.
I'm definitely starting to think Bolas' spark wasnt natural or nascent to him. Experts on the older stories may know better than I but about whther or not he was planeswalkeing before, I agree, that Bolas probably gained his ability to planeswalk from the demon leviathan.
It is a bit odd that they would throw in Bolas coming to finish the job since we know it didn't work.
I was about to mention how obtaining a spark is no easy feat (Yawgmoth, Memnarch), but then I was reminded of the unfortunate spark in the heart moment in New Phyrexia...
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Modern
Affinity
UW Control
Commander
Sidisi, Undead Vizier
Purphoros, God of the Forge
Dragonlord Ojutai
Gishath, Sun's Avatar
The Ur-Dragon
Bolas mentions being surprised by the reemergence of Ugin during his little speech during the Hour of Devastation storyline.
But yeah, stakes are definitely low for this storyline because we already know that Ugin lives.
What are you talking about? I don't remember this. In which story does this happen?
I know test of metal is suspect material, but the woman could easily be a bolas clone. I find it hard to reason he would be there personally waiting decades just in case.
I also wouldn't put it past him to have set up an "alarm" in case Ugin wasn't actually dead.
I just find it superfluous if he's there himself and unsure why he would just leave if a group of humans (who he can easily mind read) are actively trying to resurrect the one being who can oppose him.
The whole twist feels like overkill to generate excitement about a pretermined outcome.
Also, while I love the tarkir parts - I would have liked for more focus on bolas/Ugin in general. The flashbacks can be jarring sometimes because I become so invested in reading on what's going on in tarkir.
Yeah I'm rather confused about Bolas appearing, but it seems like the genuine Bolas, since he may have planeswalked in during the dragon tempest, as the bolt which shined like a second sun, right? We'll have to see if such tension is worthwhile or not, since we already know Ugin survives. Bolas's spark is probably natural, since we've seen twins both spark before. I just think he hasn't had a pronounced enough experience to wake yet. It's odd to think Bolas will come to a point of actually defeating Ugin (granted, he didn't do it single handedly, technically) considering Ugin sparks before him, and transcends color during that time.
Im not good witht he timeline but whre does the Thran civizilations falls ? Is it before, during or after Nicol Bolas time on Dominaria?
If I recall correctly, long after the Elder Dragon War, which happened at a yet-to-be-determined point in Dominaria's distant past and led to dragons dominating the plane for a while, until the Numena defeated the Primevals.
Bolas is supposedly around 25,000 years old in the present day (4565 AR); Urza was born in 0 AR, and the Thran civilization began around -4900 AR.
And since I have no reason lore-wise to like her, and reason art-wise to not like her, until we learn anything about her that might balance out the art, she'll be my least favorite of the bunch by far.
My problem with Estrid’s art is that it doesn’t convey any kind of emotion. In Saheeli’s art you get the joy she feels in creating and tinkering. In Aminatou’s they somehow nuanced the fascination and a little bit of menace in a little girl. Lord windgrace just looks awesome and I’m going to buy a single of him even though I don’t have a home for him. But estrid just looks board while walking in a barren and blech landscape. No joy, no menace, just board.
Gaze upon an empty, white throne
A legacy of lies,
A familiar disguise
Sing with me a song of conquest and fate
The black pillar cracks beneath its weight
Night breaks through the day, hard as a stone
Lost in thoughts all alone
Watch the interview for more info
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
Is there a reason to?
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
I simply haven't thought too deeply on it. What implications exactly are there?
Any attempts to unify those events into any sort of coherent "this is how a spark happens," by either the fanbase or WotC itself, is trying to apply itself retroactively to events that were never written with those guidelines in mind.
Edit: But I also agree that Aminatou's powerset as a whole has the potential to be absurdly powerful. Sure, it may be contained atm by her capricious childlike nature, but the implications of an adult (or heaven forbid a teenager) with her power are just mind boggling.
https://twitter.com/MTGAlison/status/1022497918517882885
(Bold mine)
So it looks like creative could always say that something in fate is fixed so she can't mess around with it and she dosnt have retcon powers so she can't change anything after the fact.
I just found it funny, though I wonder if this does mean she could alter the fate of people to make sure they spark/ keep them from sparking.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
And seriously, how many of the Mary Sue characters from Commander products made it into the story? I say this as someone who loves Riku of Two Reflections. Not that I care to see many. Animatou may possibly appear at some point, since she's a unique PW, and given the attention she's had. Regardless, if they really did say in the article that they considered a past character and couldn't think of a Bant walker, then it makes sense. I believe it too, since I can't think of any. And Serra shoehorned into Bant when we all know she's mono-white isn't ideal, as I've said. Again, she's not the highest on my priority list.
Her powers over fate could diminish with age, I suppose.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
If yes, that basically confirms some suspicions I already had. I mean, there's really no reason for her to be this bland. She's the face planeswalker of a Commander deck with an unprecedented theme. Why wouldn't you want to make her appear interesting? Just look at how much love Aminatou got. There's no way Estrid would look like she looks if she had been concepted from an early stage on. She's a planeswalker that makes masks and uses them to change forms and skill sets. She could have been our first shapeshifter planeswalker, maybe without a "real" definitive form herself, always relying on the masks for a corporeal form or something like that. Maybe we'll never be a 100% sure, but her art really does look like it was commissioned rather late in the production process, when there was no time left anymore to work out the details for her character.
Her uncanny valley eyes are interesting though. The first thing that sprang to mind when I saw a closeup of her face on the mothership was Duplicants.
As I've already said in the other threads, I love Aminatou's character design but the way her whole character and magic is described irks me. They relly went overboard with her.
No thread was made. We will probably get a new M19 story today so it probably wasn't worth opening a new thread for.
I'm bummed that a lack of story content actually related to the thread's topic meant that we had nothing on topic TO discuss.
Two missed weeks thus far for M19 and not so much as an "Oh yeah, there won't be a story this week folks, sorry!"
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-story/chronicle-bolas-familiar-stranger-2018-08-01
-Nice call back to Khan fall where it ended with Yasovain the shaman cave caring the story.
-Naiva being controlled by Bolas it looks like, setting up another parallel between the twins, Bolas and Ugin and the two brothers Bolas tried his mind magic out on
-Okay enough frame story flashback time!
-So it looks like Ugin really took to Tarkir basally pulling a Serra and becoming a god of the plane and it said to have made the life on the plane. Also mentions Tarkir is Ugins soul home.
-So Ugin pops in on Dominaria and is again hurt to see his brother took over the dragon kill village and decided to explore the multiverse trying to escape the feeling of hurt.
-Ugin is quite the explorer, going to Zenikdar, Innistrad, Lorwyn, Shandalar and what seem to be pre-shard Alara
-Hmmm I wonder if Ugin is a spirt dragon by now, mentioning that he uses all 5 colors of mana and Bolas thinks him a ghost (tho he dose think Ugin was killed).
-Yeah sure Bolas you did the whole elder dragon war for Ugin. It looks like Bolas dosnt just twist other peoples thoughts and feelings.
-I love the parallel of how Bolas thinking he's all knowing by seeing all of Dominaria and Ugin having knowledge of other worlds from the early story of Ugin knowing of the other lands of Dominaria before Bolas.
-Again Bolas is twisting things to his own ends and tries to makes Ugin out to be the bad guy for not wanting to talk to Bolas after Bolas tired to mind control Ugin
-So many parallels in this story I can't keep up, love the repeating elements Kate Elliott put in this stories.
-With all the Timey-whimey stuff going on in Tarkir during this time, I'm not a fan of Bolas showing up to try and finished off Ugin, which we already know doesn't work.
With the talk between Ugin and Bolas I wonder if Bolas somehow steals the demon leviathan spark to become a walker. It would explain the choice to show him at the Talon Gate in his new card art and since a lot of us have are guessing he going to try and steal sparks during his final plan on Ravnica, it would be a nice set up for that.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Yeah, I guess this is their way of creating stakes in a flashback time period, but like you said, we already know it isn't going to work. It's likely that something happens in this storyline that makes Bolas think that Ugin really is dead for good, since Bolas mentions being surprised by the reemergence of Ugin during his little speech during the Hour of Devastation storyline.
But yeah, stakes are definitely low for this storyline because we already know that Ugin lives.
Now that you mention it, the card art definitely implies as much, doesn't it? That would seem very Bolas-y, too: planeswalking demon leviathan arrives in Bolas' backyard, Bolas challenges him, believing that he's the greatest there is. Of course, Bolas starts losing, and relies on his mind manipulation to defeat him. Bolas devours him and absorbs his powers, and somehow absorbs the leviathan's spark. In short, Bolas wants something he doesn't have, and he just steals it from someone else instead of creating it himself or just accepting that he doesn't get everything he wants.
It is a bit odd that they would throw in Bolas coming to finish the job since we know it didn't work.
Affinity
UW Control
Commander
Sidisi, Undead Vizier
Purphoros, God of the Forge
Dragonlord Ojutai
Gishath, Sun's Avatar
The Ur-Dragon
What are you talking about? I don't remember this. In which story does this happen?
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
I also wouldn't put it past him to have set up an "alarm" in case Ugin wasn't actually dead.
I just find it superfluous if he's there himself and unsure why he would just leave if a group of humans (who he can easily mind read) are actively trying to resurrect the one being who can oppose him.
The whole twist feels like overkill to generate excitement about a pretermined outcome.
Also, while I love the tarkir parts - I would have liked for more focus on bolas/Ugin in general. The flashbacks can be jarring sometimes because I become so invested in reading on what's going on in tarkir.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
If I recall correctly, long after the Elder Dragon War, which happened at a yet-to-be-determined point in Dominaria's distant past and led to dragons dominating the plane for a while, until the Numena defeated the Primevals.
Bolas is supposedly around 25,000 years old in the present day (4565 AR); Urza was born in 0 AR, and the Thran civilization began around -4900 AR.