So how likely is it that Bolas and Ugin are two halves of what was supposed to be a single dragon? That would explain why they're smaller than usual, weren't born with full names, and their personalities are so radically different, right?
If so, is it possible that they could "fuse" Dragonball Z Piccolo and Kami-style later on in the overarching plot?
Does Arcades Sabboth remind you of anyone else Ugin knows? Just hops in on a city, tells everyone "I'm in charge here", and starts making up the laws and rules in the name of order?
We don't know the back story of how Arcades joined the human camp, so it's too early to assume that he's like Azor. Arcades has traits of green which values life and nature.
Agreed, Arcades' role in the human city seems more like a symbiotic arrangement (as befitting a White/Green character) than a top-down system of controlling people "for their own good." He provides them with leadership, guidance, and physical protection. I don't get the sense that he's trying to set up a rigid system of rules to micromanage people's lives, just advising them on the broad strokes of how to improve themselves and their society. For instance, he seemed perfectly willing to let the magistrates deal with the murder on their own terms.
If anything, he reminds me of Dromoka, without her xenophobic intolerance for different ways of life or her imperialistic desire to expand her territory. Even his physical description is similar, to the point where it makes me wonder if the Tarkir Dragonlords were Ugin's imperfect attempts to re-create his estranged siblings.
Does Arcades Sabboth remind you of anyone else Ugin knows? Just hops in on a city, tells everyone "I'm in charge here", and starts making up the laws and rules in the name of order?
We don't know the back story of how Arcades joined the human camp, so it's too early to assume that he's like Azor. Arcades has traits of green which values life and nature.
Agreed, Arcades' role in the human city seems more like a symbiotic arrangement (as befitting a White/Green character) than a top-down system of controlling people "for their own good." He provides them with leadership, guidance, and physical protection. I don't get the sense that he's trying to set up a rigid system of rules to micromanage people's lives, just advising them on the broad strokes of how to improve themselves and their society. For instance, he seemed perfectly willing to let the magistrates deal with the murder on their own terms.
If anything, he reminds me of Dromoka, without her xenophobic intolerance for different ways of life or her imperialistic desire to expand her territory. Even his physical description is similar, to the point where it makes me wonder if the Tarkir Dragonlords were Ugin's imperfect attempts to re-create his estranged siblings.
You know they came about after he was defeated right? They very well could be manifestations of his memories of how he remembers his siblings. Difficult to tie them out though. No clue what the story significance would be.
Does Arcades Sabboth remind you of anyone else Ugin knows? Just hops in on a city, tells everyone "I'm in charge here", and starts making up the laws and rules in the name of order?
We don't know the back story of how Arcades joined the human camp, so it's too early to assume that he's like Azor. Arcades has traits of green which values life and nature.
Agreed, Arcades' role in the human city seems more like a symbiotic arrangement (as befitting a White/Green character) than a top-down system of controlling people "for their own good." He provides them with leadership, guidance, and physical protection. I don't get the sense that he's trying to set up a rigid system of rules to micromanage people's lives, just advising them on the broad strokes of how to improve themselves and their society. For instance, he seemed perfectly willing to let the magistrates deal with the murder on their own terms.
If anything, he reminds me of Dromoka, without her xenophobic intolerance for different ways of life or her imperialistic desire to expand her territory. Even his physical description is similar, to the point where it makes me wonder if the Tarkir Dragonlords were Ugin's imperfect attempts to re-create his estranged siblings.
You know they came about after he was defeated right?
Uh no, the Tarkir Dragonlords existed long before Ugin was pwned by Bolas there. They showed up in Khanfall because Tasigur betrayed the other clans to them, and Ojutai and Silumgar decided to form a temporary alliance. In fact, IIRC, they were the first to emerge from the dragonstorms, which is why they're "Elder Dragons".
I think Ugin is likely to start Jeskai, and then flip colorless. I could see them sharing draconic red, thoughtful strategizing blue, and then opposites with white and black. Ugin's seeming sense of order could be white, and he is on the white side of blue more than the red side. Also, Arcades card just spoiled, and he's Bant. Doubt they'll double up on Bant. And all the elder dragons thus far have been tricolor. What if what's-his-face and his cronies are Tarkir tricolors? Was that Asmadi who was doing his own thing? But Asmadi had a card that wasn't Tarkir colors.
Either way, my sense is Ugin will be Jeskai to make a good/evil dichotomy with white and black the only things separating Ugin and Bolas.
I think Ugin is likely to start Jeskai, and then flip colorless. I could see them sharing draconic red, thoughtful strategizing blue, and then opposites with white and black. Ugin's seeming sense of order could be white, and he is on the white side of blue more than the red side. Also, Arcades card just spoiled, and he's Bant. Doubt they'll double up on Bant. And all the elder dragons thus far have been tricolor. What if what's-his-face and his cronies are Tarkir tricolors? Was that Asmadi who was doing his own thing? But Asmadi had a card that wasn't Tarkir colors.
Either way, my sense is Ugin will be Jeskai to make a good/evil dichotomy with white and black the only things separating Ugin and Bolas.
Just because Arcades is Bant doesn't mean Ugin couldn't be, especially because this connection he has with Bolas seems to go even deeper than we realized. Also I don't know where you were going with Asmadi, because you seemed to get confused there.
I think Ugin is likely to start Jeskai, and then flip colorless. I could see them sharing draconic red, thoughtful strategizing blue, and then opposites with white and black. Ugin's seeming sense of order could be white, and he is on the white side of blue more than the red side. Also, Arcades card just spoiled, and he's Bant. Doubt they'll double up on Bant. And all the elder dragons thus far have been tricolor. What if what's-his-face and his cronies are Tarkir tricolors? Was that Asmadi who was doing his own thing? But Asmadi had a card that wasn't Tarkir colors.
Either way, my sense is Ugin will be Jeskai to make a good/evil dichotomy with white and black the only things separating Ugin and Bolas.
I agree with your logic! I just think he's going to be Temur, with the dichotomy being between Nicol's (Black) egocentric view of reality and Ugin's (Green) acceptance of himself as a part of the natural world, rather than simply good vs. evil.
Ugin cares about the way things are, which is a very Green mentality. Nicol cares about the way things should be, which can be a White mentality if it's driven by altruism or moral sentiments, but can also be a Black mentality when it's driven by pure egotism, as it is here. Ugin's reaction to seeing his sister killed was to think "this is sad, but it's just the way the world works, we should find out more about the way the world works." Nicol's reaction was to think "this is an outrage, if she can be killed that means I can be killed too, and that should never happen." That, more than anything else, is the fundamental difference between the two of them.
I think Ugin is likely to start Jeskai, and then flip colorless. I could see them sharing draconic red, thoughtful strategizing blue, and then opposites with white and black. Ugin's seeming sense of order could be white, and he is on the white side of blue more than the red side. Also, Arcades card just spoiled, and he's Bant. Doubt they'll double up on Bant. And all the elder dragons thus far have been tricolor. What if what's-his-face and his cronies are Tarkir tricolors? Was that Asmadi who was doing his own thing? But Asmadi had a card that wasn't Tarkir colors.
Either way, my sense is Ugin will be Jeskai to make a good/evil dichotomy with white and black the only things separating Ugin and Bolas.
Just because Arcades is Bant doesn't mean Ugin couldn't be, especially because this connection he has with Bolas seems to go even deeper than we realized. Also I don't know where you were going with Asmadi, because you seemed to get confused there.
We (or maybe just I) don't know much about all the other dragons in the elder dragon war. There's consistency in that they have been tricolor (in the cards). Ugin is the outlier, but he became colorless. In today's story, I think it was Asmadi who was described as being off somewhere with dragons we haven't met. While Asmadi is a normal Jund tricolor, I was wondering whether those other dragons may be Tarkir tricolors. But then I realized Asmadi being Jund argued against the others being Tarkir tris.
Since all the normal tricolors are spoken for, and since I don't think they'd go with dual-color Ugin (makes him seem 'less than', especially if twin of Bolas), if Ugin did start off as a Tarkir tricolors, I'm just wondering where the other four tricolor elder dragons would be (if not with Asmadi).
You know they came about after he was defeated right? They very well could be manifestations of his memories of how he remembers his siblings. Difficult to tie them out though. No clue what the story significance would be.
With Ugin being the omitted one since he's the one dreaming/remembering. Something like that.
He created them long before he was defeated by Bolas, although they didn't become true Elder Dragons until his hibernation. But I do think the Tarkir Elders were formed in the image of the Dominaria Elders, whether it was intentional on Ugin's part or just a reflection of his subconscious thoughts. Either way, I get a sense that they're replicas, albeit very flawed ones, imperfect almost to the point of caricature.
Dromoka is similar to Arcades, but without the understanding that comes with Blue. Her Green focus on the natural order and her White focus on purity are exaggerated to the point of being all-consuming obsessions, leading to her intolerant, xenophobic, and expansionist behavior.
Ojutai is similar to Chromium, but without the detachment that comes with Black. Much like Azor, he feels certain that his way is the only right way, and has a pathological need to make sure that everyone else adopts his way of thinking. Chromium is known as the Mutable, but Ojutai is rigidly unchanging, to the point where it's practically his defining quality.
Silumgar is similar to Nicol, but without the hedonism or the willingness to take risks that come with Red. Bolas likes to indulge himself when he's in a position of power and revel in his victories, and he understands that sometimes you need to take risks and expend resources to gain more power in the long run. Bolas also seems to care about freedom (at least in the sense that he values his own freedom to do whatever he wants, even at the expense of other people's freedom) and he's displayed a pathological aversion to being trapped or limited in any way. Silumgar, on the other hand, is completely risk-averse and utterly incapable of enjoying himself. He just sits in his lair all day, paranoid and miserable, greedily hoarding everything he has without actually using any of it to do anything. He's almost a literal prisoner of his own greed and cowardice.
Atarka is very similar to Palladia, to the point of virtually being the same character. Granted, Palladia's attitude seems more Gruul than Naya, since I don't really see much White in her. But Atarka's Green and Red traits are taken to a ridiculous extreme, where she's so driven by instinct and impulse that she's literally incapable of doing anything but constantly eating, to the point where she's a threat to her own long-term survival due to the mass extinctions her feeding frenzies cause.
I don't see much similarity between Kolaghan and Vaevictus, but maybe Ugin didn't care about Vaevictus enough to replicate him, since he was a cousin and not a sibling? Or maybe he just didn't know Vaevictus well enough to even create a twisted funhouse mirror version of him.
You know they came about after he was defeated right? They very well could be manifestations of his memories of how he remembers his siblings. Difficult to tie them out though. No clue what the story significance would be.
With Ugin being the omitted one since he's the one dreaming/remembering. Something like that.
He created them long before he was defeated by Bolas, although they didn't become true Elder Dragons until his hibernation. But I do think the Tarkir Elders were formed in the image of the Dominaria Elders, whether it was intentional on Ugin's part or just a reflection of his subconscious thoughts. Either way, I get a sense that they're replicas, albeit very flawed ones, imperfect almost to the point of caricature.
Dromoka is similar to Arcades, but without the understanding that comes with Blue. Her Green focus on the natural order and her White focus on purity are exaggerated to the point of being all-consuming obsessions, leading to her intolerant, xenophobic, and expansionist behavior.
Ojutai is similar to Chromium, but without the detachment that comes with Black. Much like Azor, he feels certain that his way is the only right way, and has a pathological need to make sure that everyone else adopts his way of thinking. Chromium is known as the Mutable, but Ojutai is rigidly unchanging, to the point where it's practically his defining quality.
Silumgar is similar to Nicol, but without the hedonism or the willingness to take risks that come with Red. Bolas likes to indulge himself when he's in a position of power and revel in his victories, and he understands that sometimes you need to take risks and expend resources to gain more power in the long run. Bolas also seems to care about freedom (at least in the sense that he values his own freedom to do whatever he wants, even at the expense of other people's freedom) and he's displayed a pathological aversion to being trapped or limited in any way. Silumgar, on the other hand, is completely risk-averse and utterly incapable of enjoying himself. He just sits in his lair all day, paranoid and miserable, greedily hoarding everything he has without actually using any of it to do anything. He's almost a literal prisoner of his own greed and cowardice.
Atarka is very similar to Palladia, to the point of virtually being the same character. Granted, Palladia's attitude seems more Gruul than Naya, since I don't really see much White in her. But Atarka's Green and Red traits are taken to a ridiculous extreme, where she's so driven by instinct and impulse that she's literally incapable of doing anything but constantly eating, to the point where she's a threat to her own long-term survival due to the mass extinctions her feeding frenzies cause.
I don't see much similarity between Kolaghan and Vaevictus, but maybe Ugin didn't care about Vaevictus enough to replicate him, since he was a cousin and not a sibling? Or maybe he just didn't know Vaevictus well enough to even create a twisted funhouse mirror version of him.
You know they came about after he was defeated right? They very well could be manifestations of his memories of how he remembers his siblings. Difficult to tie them out though. No clue what the story significance would be.
With Ugin being the omitted one since he's the one dreaming/remembering. Something like that.
He created them long before he was defeated by Bolas, although they didn't become true Elder Dragons until his hibernation. But I do think the Tarkir Elders were formed in the image of the Dominaria Elders, whether it was intentional on Ugin's part or just a reflection of his subconscious thoughts. Either way, I get a sense that they're replicas, albeit very flawed ones, imperfect almost to the point of caricature.
Dromoka is similar to Arcades, but without the understanding that comes with Blue. Her Green focus on the natural order and her White focus on purity are exaggerated to the point of being all-consuming obsessions, leading to her intolerant, xenophobic, and expansionist behavior.
Ojutai is similar to Chromium, but without the detachment that comes with Black. Much like Azor, he feels certain that his way is the only right way, and has a pathological need to make sure that everyone else adopts his way of thinking. Chromium is known as the Mutable, but Ojutai is rigidly unchanging, to the point where it's practically his defining quality.
Silumgar is similar to Nicol, but without the hedonism or the willingness to take risks that come with Red. Bolas likes to indulge himself when he's in a position of power and revel in his victories, and he understands that sometimes you need to take risks and expend resources to gain more power in the long run. Bolas also seems to care about freedom (at least in the sense that he values his own freedom to do whatever he wants, even at the expense of other people's freedom) and he's displayed a pathological aversion to being trapped or limited in any way. Silumgar, on the other hand, is completely risk-averse and utterly incapable of enjoying himself. He just sits in his lair all day, paranoid and miserable, greedily hoarding everything he has without actually using any of it to do anything. He's almost a literal prisoner of his own greed and cowardice.
Atarka is very similar to Palladia, to the point of virtually being the same character. Granted, Palladia's attitude seems more Gruul than Naya, since I don't really see much White in her. But Atarka's Green and Red traits are taken to a ridiculous extreme, where she's so driven by instinct and impulse that she's literally incapable of doing anything but constantly eating, to the point where she's a threat to her own long-term survival due to the mass extinctions her feeding frenzies cause.
I don't see much similarity between Kolaghan and Vaevictus, but maybe Ugin didn't care about Vaevictus enough to replicate him, since he was a cousin and not a sibling? Or maybe he just didn't know Vaevictus well enough to even create a twisted funhouse mirror version of him.
Maybe Kolaghan is more about the sister who died, Merrevia Sal.
Maro stated that Ugin will not be in this set - why are people debating his colours?
I don't see why Ugin wouldn't be BANT, he is a for the greater good type of character that wishes to maintain the proper balance seems pretty BANT to me.
He has to have Blue that is for sure. He never seems to act purely emotionally so that rules out Red. Nor does he seem especially Black and about putting himself first at the cost of everyone else.
So how likely is it that Bolas and Ugin are two halves of what was supposed to be a single dragon? That would explain why they're smaller than usual, weren't born with full names, and their personalities are so radically different, right?
If so, is it possible that they could "fuse" Dragonball Z Piccolo and Kami-style later on in the overarching plot?
Two dragons of opposing moral alignments being two halves of a single entity, and being involved in a fusion plot in the sequel? Someone must have played the Gen 5 Pokemon games recently
But I'm serious though. This story has given me the idea that a Nicol Ugin character might actually form from the twins in the future.
Well that is just....depressing and surprising, seems a big big miss.
I guess it almost guarantees that he shows up in one of the three Ravnica sets, right?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Been a member here for over a dozen years. Playing since '95 just got lost in the twitch shuffle.
Does Arcades Sabboth remind you of anyone else Ugin knows? Just hops in on a city, tells everyone "I'm in charge here", and starts making up the laws and rules in the name of order?
We don't know the back story of how Arcades joined the human camp, so it's too early to assume that he's like Azor. Arcades has traits of green which values life and nature.
I'm not saying he's like Azor. In fact, I'd wager he's a ton more competent than Azor- but it could explain why Ugin gravitated towards the sphinx when he needed Bolas stopped.
We are going to make a story about Bolas and Ugin and just not make Ugin a card...only WOTC could be so incompetent. Not like WOTC has issues making unplayable Walker Cards.
So Maro stayed *today* at some point on his Tumblr, among many other responses, that there would be no Ugin card. You made it seem like this was some big announcement with at least a few days to it. So the answer to your question as to why we were discussing Ugin's colors is two-fold: 1) Anyone who wasn't reading through Maro's Tumblr today probably didn't know, and 2) Before he became colorless, he had colors, and so even card-less it's interesting to feel out what colors he would have been before being colorless.
That being said, it feels like a big miss that Ugin isn't represented. In another post, Maro said that the story changed after the set was designed or something. So it may be likely Ugin and Bolas being twins was only a pretty recent decision. Still, it looks like it's gonna be Ugin and Bolas-centric, but there will be no Ugin. Oh well.
You know they came about after he was defeated right? They very well could be manifestations of his memories of how he remembers his siblings. Difficult to tie them out though. No clue what the story significance would be.
With Ugin being the omitted one since he's the one dreaming/remembering. Something like that.
He created them long before he was defeated by Bolas, although they didn't become true Elder Dragons until his hibernation. But I do think the Tarkir Elders were formed in the image of the Dominaria Elders, whether it was intentional on Ugin's part or just a reflection of his subconscious thoughts. Either way, I get a sense that they're replicas, albeit very flawed ones, imperfect almost to the point of caricature.
Dromoka is similar to Arcades, but without the understanding that comes with Blue. Her Green focus on the natural order and her White focus on purity are exaggerated to the point of being all-consuming obsessions, leading to her intolerant, xenophobic, and expansionist behavior.
Ojutai is similar to Chromium, but without the detachment that comes with Black. Much like Azor, he feels certain that his way is the only right way, and has a pathological need to make sure that everyone else adopts his way of thinking. Chromium is known as the Mutable, but Ojutai is rigidly unchanging, to the point where it's practically his defining quality.
Silumgar is similar to Nicol, but without the hedonism or the willingness to take risks that come with Red. Bolas likes to indulge himself when he's in a position of power and revel in his victories, and he understands that sometimes you need to take risks and expend resources to gain more power in the long run. Bolas also seems to care about freedom (at least in the sense that he values his own freedom to do whatever he wants, even at the expense of other people's freedom) and he's displayed a pathological aversion to being trapped or limited in any way. Silumgar, on the other hand, is completely risk-averse and utterly incapable of enjoying himself. He just sits in his lair all day, paranoid and miserable, greedily hoarding everything he has without actually using any of it to do anything. He's almost a literal prisoner of his own greed and cowardice.
Atarka is very similar to Palladia, to the point of virtually being the same character. Granted, Palladia's attitude seems more Gruul than Naya, since I don't really see much White in her. But Atarka's Green and Red traits are taken to a ridiculous extreme, where she's so driven by instinct and impulse that she's literally incapable of doing anything but constantly eating, to the point where she's a threat to her own long-term survival due to the mass extinctions her feeding frenzies cause.
I don't see much similarity between Kolaghan and Vaevictus, but maybe Ugin didn't care about Vaevictus enough to replicate him, since he was a cousin and not a sibling? Or maybe he just didn't know Vaevictus well enough to even create a twisted funhouse mirror version of him.
The one note Ugin makes about Vaevictus is that he and his siblings, "furiously guarded a territory they claimed for their own hunting grounds even though it had plenty of space and game enough for many hunters to cull."
Kolaghan drives her clan about the hills and steppes of Tarkhir. They travel from place to place, quickly taking what they can/want before moving on to the next target. As such, Kolaghan also operates within a particularly large hunting area, though one with far less sustenance.
The difference between the two color-wise seems to be reflected in their choice of territories. Vaevictus and his siblings settled in or took an area with more than enough game to sustain themselves (more green), viciously defended it, and left surrounding areas alone. On the other hand, Kolaghan took an area with scarce resources (less green), viciously defended it, and necessarily raided surrounding areas for resources.
Well that is just....depressing and surprising, seems a big big miss.
I guess it almost guarantees that he shows up in one of the three Ravnica sets, right?
Honestly I’d rather have him not depicted in the Core rather than having him shoehorned into a colour combination not suited to him.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Wizards. listen. The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
You know, I gotta wonder what Bolas was doing that was so important for Ugin to stop when he basically just ended up settling down in Madara/his meditation realm after awhile. I hope they go into it some.
Story pacing has me concerned. Half of our story is split among fate reforged/tarkir and we're down to 6 stories. We still have just a short list of notable bolas events:
- the dragon wars
- his falling out with Ugin (which could lead to #1, or be combined with)
- his fight with the leviathan
- him sparking
- His fall and the mending, from his point of view (the novels may have dived into this a bit I have no idea)
- The confluence and his hand in the alara block
- anything having to do with Skalla, vivien is human, so baring any kind of magic/item to extend her life he would have had to been to skalla in the past several decades
- His visit to ammonkhet (although we saw a brief look into this)
- his brokering of lili's contract, and why he even bothered to do it
- why he released the eldrazi (maybe to see how the multiverse would handle an interplanar threat?) and how he found out how
There are a million other tidbits I could also include (leshrac, gem of becomming, seeking vraska, how he got in touch with ral...etc). These are all things this arc would have been perfect to expand on and we only have 6 stories left and we aren't even into the dragon wars yet.
You know, I gotta wonder what Bolas was doing that was so important for Ugin to stop when he basically just ended up settling down in Madara/his meditation realm after awhile. I hope they go into it some.
Story pacing has me concerned. Half of our story is split among fate reforged/tarkir and we're down to 6 stories. We still have just a short list of notable bolas events:
- the dragon wars
- his falling out with Ugin (which could lead to #1, or be combined with)
- his fight with the leviathan
- him sparking
- His fall and the mending, from his point of view (the novels may have dived into this a bit I have no idea)
- The confluence and his hand in the alara block
- anything having to do with Skalla, vivien is human, so baring any kind of magic/item to extend her life he would have had to been to skalla in the past several decades
- His visit to ammonkhet (although we saw a brief look into this)
- his brokering of lili's contract, and why he even bothered to do it
- why he released the eldrazi (maybe to see how the multiverse would handle an interplanar threat?) and how he found out how
There are a million other tidbits I could also include (leshrac, gem of becomming, seeking vraska, how he got in touch with ral...etc). These are all things this arc would have been perfect to expand on and we only have 6 stories left and we aren't even into the dragon wars yet.
The story so far seems to primarily address Ugin's relationship with Bolas. As such, I wouldn't expect the story to address events that occurred apart from this connection. As such, I wouldn't expect anything about the Mending, the Confluence, or Lili's contract (since these all occurred whilst Ugin was incapacitated/dead. Similarly, I wouldn't expect much insight into Bolas's recruitment of planeswalkers either.
Vivien and Skalla is a maybe (since she's in the set).
This story continues to be excellent. I like this author. I enjoy her style and voice. I love the story she's telling.
I noted the existence of bronze shields. We are now in Dominaria's Bronze Age, and probably at the very beginning of it (nothing as advanced as Egypt's pyramids or Sumer's ziggurats seem to feature here. There are stone-slab buildings, thatched roofs, and palisades, but nothing much beyond that yet. Still, agriculture has taken root by this point.
Points I'm curious about:
Is this the first city on Dominaria?
Is Arcades Sabboth the founder of Dominarian civilization?
Did agriculture and bronze smithing exist before Sabboth showed up? How much of the technology we saw here was imparted by the dragon? I ask because it seems only a few years seem to have passed between this week's and last week's stories, but last week's world felt even more primitive.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
If so, is it possible that they could "fuse" Dragonball Z Piccolo and Kami-style later on in the overarching plot?
Agreed, Arcades' role in the human city seems more like a symbiotic arrangement (as befitting a White/Green character) than a top-down system of controlling people "for their own good." He provides them with leadership, guidance, and physical protection. I don't get the sense that he's trying to set up a rigid system of rules to micromanage people's lives, just advising them on the broad strokes of how to improve themselves and their society. For instance, he seemed perfectly willing to let the magistrates deal with the murder on their own terms.
If anything, he reminds me of Dromoka, without her xenophobic intolerance for different ways of life or her imperialistic desire to expand her territory. Even his physical description is similar, to the point where it makes me wonder if the Tarkir Dragonlords were Ugin's imperfect attempts to re-create his estranged siblings.
You know they came about after he was defeated right? They very well could be manifestations of his memories of how he remembers his siblings. Difficult to tie them out though. No clue what the story significance would be.
Silumgar: Nicol
Ojutai: chromium
Dromoka: arcades
Atarka: paladia / vaevictus
Kolghan: paladia/ vaevictus
With Ugin being the omitted one since he's the one dreaming/remembering. Something like that.
Uh no, the Tarkir Dragonlords existed long before Ugin was pwned by Bolas there. They showed up in Khanfall because Tasigur betrayed the other clans to them, and Ojutai and Silumgar decided to form a temporary alliance. In fact, IIRC, they were the first to emerge from the dragonstorms, which is why they're "Elder Dragons".
Either way, my sense is Ugin will be Jeskai to make a good/evil dichotomy with white and black the only things separating Ugin and Bolas.
Just because Arcades is Bant doesn't mean Ugin couldn't be, especially because this connection he has with Bolas seems to go even deeper than we realized. Also I don't know where you were going with Asmadi, because you seemed to get confused there.
I agree with your logic! I just think he's going to be Temur, with the dichotomy being between Nicol's (Black) egocentric view of reality and Ugin's (Green) acceptance of himself as a part of the natural world, rather than simply good vs. evil.
Ugin cares about the way things are, which is a very Green mentality. Nicol cares about the way things should be, which can be a White mentality if it's driven by altruism or moral sentiments, but can also be a Black mentality when it's driven by pure egotism, as it is here. Ugin's reaction to seeing his sister killed was to think "this is sad, but it's just the way the world works, we should find out more about the way the world works." Nicol's reaction was to think "this is an outrage, if she can be killed that means I can be killed too, and that should never happen." That, more than anything else, is the fundamental difference between the two of them.
We (or maybe just I) don't know much about all the other dragons in the elder dragon war. There's consistency in that they have been tricolor (in the cards). Ugin is the outlier, but he became colorless. In today's story, I think it was Asmadi who was described as being off somewhere with dragons we haven't met. While Asmadi is a normal Jund tricolor, I was wondering whether those other dragons may be Tarkir tricolors. But then I realized Asmadi being Jund argued against the others being Tarkir tris.
Since all the normal tricolors are spoken for, and since I don't think they'd go with dual-color Ugin (makes him seem 'less than', especially if twin of Bolas), if Ugin did start off as a Tarkir tricolors, I'm just wondering where the other four tricolor elder dragons would be (if not with Asmadi).
He created them long before he was defeated by Bolas, although they didn't become true Elder Dragons until his hibernation. But I do think the Tarkir Elders were formed in the image of the Dominaria Elders, whether it was intentional on Ugin's part or just a reflection of his subconscious thoughts. Either way, I get a sense that they're replicas, albeit very flawed ones, imperfect almost to the point of caricature.
I don't see much similarity between Kolaghan and Vaevictus, but maybe Ugin didn't care about Vaevictus enough to replicate him, since he was a cousin and not a sibling? Or maybe he just didn't know Vaevictus well enough to even create a twisted funhouse mirror version of him.
I dig this analysis. Just wanted to say.
Maybe Kolaghan is more about the sister who died, Merrevia Sal.
Maro stated that Ugin will not be in this set - why are people debating his colours?
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
Follow me on instagram @TheMTGWord
He has to have Blue that is for sure. He never seems to act purely emotionally so that rules out Red. Nor does he seem especially Black and about putting himself first at the cost of everyone else.
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/175065239743/does-ugin-have-a-card-in-core-2019
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
But I'm serious though. This story has given me the idea that a Nicol Ugin character might actually form from the twins in the future.
Well that is just....depressing and surprising, seems a big big miss.
I guess it almost guarantees that he shows up in one of the three Ravnica sets, right?
I'm not saying he's like Azor. In fact, I'd wager he's a ton more competent than Azor- but it could explain why Ugin gravitated towards the sphinx when he needed Bolas stopped.
So Maro stayed *today* at some point on his Tumblr, among many other responses, that there would be no Ugin card. You made it seem like this was some big announcement with at least a few days to it. So the answer to your question as to why we were discussing Ugin's colors is two-fold: 1) Anyone who wasn't reading through Maro's Tumblr today probably didn't know, and 2) Before he became colorless, he had colors, and so even card-less it's interesting to feel out what colors he would have been before being colorless.
That being said, it feels like a big miss that Ugin isn't represented. In another post, Maro said that the story changed after the set was designed or something. So it may be likely Ugin and Bolas being twins was only a pretty recent decision. Still, it looks like it's gonna be Ugin and Bolas-centric, but there will be no Ugin. Oh well.
The one note Ugin makes about Vaevictus is that he and his siblings, "furiously guarded a territory they claimed for their own hunting grounds even though it had plenty of space and game enough for many hunters to cull."
Kolaghan drives her clan about the hills and steppes of Tarkhir. They travel from place to place, quickly taking what they can/want before moving on to the next target. As such, Kolaghan also operates within a particularly large hunting area, though one with far less sustenance.
The difference between the two color-wise seems to be reflected in their choice of territories. Vaevictus and his siblings settled in or took an area with more than enough game to sustain themselves (more green), viciously defended it, and left surrounding areas alone. On the other hand, Kolaghan took an area with scarce resources (less green), viciously defended it, and necessarily raided surrounding areas for resources.
Honestly I’d rather have him not depicted in the Core rather than having him shoehorned into a colour combination not suited to him.
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
Story pacing has me concerned. Half of our story is split among fate reforged/tarkir and we're down to 6 stories. We still have just a short list of notable bolas events:
- the dragon wars
- his falling out with Ugin (which could lead to #1, or be combined with)
- his fight with the leviathan
- him sparking
- His fall and the mending, from his point of view (the novels may have dived into this a bit I have no idea)
- The confluence and his hand in the alara block
- anything having to do with Skalla, vivien is human, so baring any kind of magic/item to extend her life he would have had to been to skalla in the past several decades
- His visit to ammonkhet (although we saw a brief look into this)
- his brokering of lili's contract, and why he even bothered to do it
- why he released the eldrazi (maybe to see how the multiverse would handle an interplanar threat?) and how he found out how
There are a million other tidbits I could also include (leshrac, gem of becomming, seeking vraska, how he got in touch with ral...etc). These are all things this arc would have been perfect to expand on and we only have 6 stories left and we aren't even into the dragon wars yet.
The story so far seems to primarily address Ugin's relationship with Bolas. As such, I wouldn't expect the story to address events that occurred apart from this connection. As such, I wouldn't expect anything about the Mending, the Confluence, or Lili's contract (since these all occurred whilst Ugin was incapacitated/dead. Similarly, I wouldn't expect much insight into Bolas's recruitment of planeswalkers either.
Vivien and Skalla is a maybe (since she's in the set).
I noted the existence of bronze shields. We are now in Dominaria's Bronze Age, and probably at the very beginning of it (nothing as advanced as Egypt's pyramids or Sumer's ziggurats seem to feature here. There are stone-slab buildings, thatched roofs, and palisades, but nothing much beyond that yet. Still, agriculture has taken root by this point.
Points I'm curious about:
Is this the first city on Dominaria?
Is Arcades Sabboth the founder of Dominarian civilization?
Did agriculture and bronze smithing exist before Sabboth showed up? How much of the technology we saw here was imparted by the dragon? I ask because it seems only a few years seem to have passed between this week's and last week's stories, but last week's world felt even more primitive.