This is a very messed up development. Karn will have to do something to make the Weatherlight Sentient again in the next set after. Otherwise, they're no better than a guild on Ravnica.
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This is really frustrating. I mean at this point what was really the purpose of Jhoira dredging up the Weatherlight then? She probably could of just made one from scratch and called it the same thing with way less work.
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This is really frustrating. I mean at this point what was really the purpose of Jhoira dredging up the Weatherlight then? She probably could of just made one from scratch and called it the same thing with way less work.
I think Jhoira's mission here (in addition to striking at the Cabal physically) is to provide counter-propaganda to the Cabal's own propaganda by using the Weatherlight rebuilt from the remains of the original, and descendants of the original's crew.
That's stupid, Skysovereign should never be just overall better than the ship that went up against Phyrexia.
Depends on whether you consider it to be the same ship or not. Jhoira scavenged what she could of the original, and replaced what was lost or irrevocably damaged with similar materials as were originally used. We also witness the powerstone be restarted by Tiana, when it previously took collapsing an entire plane into it to give the ship the ability to travel the planes (prior to interplanar travel being made more difficult by the Mending).
This makes it quite a bit like the Ship of Theseus thought experiment. With so much of the original ship having been destroyed and replaced/redone, is it truly still the ship that faced Phyrexia or is it just meant to appear like the original to give the denizens of Dominaria a well known legend to rally behind as they confront a force that wants to rewrite history?
Creative has said for while they want moving between planes to really only be a plaesnwlker thing (only exception so far is the ELdrazi), with the planar portal from Kaladesh being unable to protect from the blind eternities.
Although the fact Ajani seems to be helping hint they might be able to somehow help fight Bolas, which means there still might be more that we don't know yet.
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Plot twist: the Weatherlight is in Bolas’s clutches and then he puts the planar bridge in it.
Can the Planar Bridge portal fit the Weatherlight? It's big enough to fit the Immortal Sun and a standard Gearhulk, but the Weatherlight is much more massive than both.
Plot twist: the Weatherlight is in Bolas’s clutches and then he puts the planar bridge in it.
Can the Planar Bridge portal fit the Weatherlight? It's big enough to fit the Immortal Sun and a standard Gearhulk, but the Weatherlight is much more massive than both.
I find it unlikely that the problem would rest on "they didn't make the gate emitter wide enough" - if the Weatherlight can't go through there's going to be a different explanation.
Plot twist: the Weatherlight is in Bolas’s clutches and then he puts the planar bridge in it.
Can the Planar Bridge portal fit the Weatherlight? It's big enough to fit the Immortal Sun and a standard Gearhulk, but the Weatherlight is much more massive than both.
I find it unlikely that the problem would rest on "they didn't make the gate emitter wide enough" - if the Weatherlight can't go through there's going to be a different explanation.
Like a "The ship's hull is organic, so it will get vaporized" kind of explanation?
Plot twist: the Weatherlight is in Bolas’s clutches and then he puts the planar bridge in it.
Can the Planar Bridge portal fit the Weatherlight? It's big enough to fit the Immortal Sun and a standard Gearhulk, but the Weatherlight is much more massive than both.
I find it unlikely that the problem would rest on "they didn't make the gate emitter wide enough" - if the Weatherlight can't go through there's going to be a different explanation.
Like a "The ship's hull is organic, so it will get vaporized" kind of explanation?
Maybe. Probably, I'd even venture. Or "failsafe enchantments/panic button"?
Plot twist: the Weatherlight is in Bolas’s clutches and then he puts the planar bridge in it.
Can the Planar Bridge portal fit the Weatherlight? It's big enough to fit the Immortal Sun and a standard Gearhulk, but the Weatherlight is much more massive than both.
I find it unlikely that the problem would rest on "they didn't make the gate emitter wide enough" - if the Weatherlight can't go through there's going to be a different explanation.
Like a "The ship's hull is organic, so it will get vaporized" kind of explanation?
Maybe. Probably, I'd even venture. Or "failsafe enchantments/panic button"?
Regardless of the reason/justification, it does feel almost like a wasted opportunity. I do kinda hope they find some way to sneak planeshifting for people who aren't walkers back in as a story element, but I understand that they want travel between planes of existence to be something special.
On the other hand, maybe they're saving that for when they decide to bring New Phyrexia back in as an antagonistic force?
Can the Planar Bridge portal fit the Weatherlight? It's big enough to fit the Immortal Sun and a standard Gearhulk, but the Weatherlight is much more massive than both.
I find it unlikely that the problem would rest on "they didn't make the gate emitter wide enough" - if the Weatherlight can't go through there's going to be a different explanation.
Like a "The ship's hull is organic, so it will get vaporized" kind of explanation?
Maybe. Probably, I'd even venture. Or "failsafe enchantments/panic button"?
Regardless of the reason/justification, it does feel almost like a wasted opportunity. I do kinda hope they find some way to sneak planeshifting back in as a story element, but I understand that they want to travel between planes of existence to be something special.
I understand your disappointment but imagine how satisfying it's going to be when the people restoring the Weatherlight have to work for it across multiple blocks.
The Weatherlight having an arc of its own is better storytelling. Now, if it's never intended to move toward being a planetraveling ship then I can agree with people being bothered.
If it cannot travel planes then Angel and Vampire don't need a focus chapter.
Honestly, having an angel, you know creatures born of white mana, explore the interactions of white mana across multiple planes sounds pretty dope.
Sure but if they aren't going to matter until the next trip to Dominaria then give that focus chapter to Teferi, Karn or Jaya. It also makes putting together a new Weatherlight crew rather pointless, it was already slightly pointless cause its not like the Jacetice League will be warming the bench while Weatherlight Next Generation is the main team like the OG Weatherlight Crew. But its even worse if the Weatherlight is not going to be around in story.
That's stupid, Skysovereign should never be just overall better than the ship that went up against Phyrexia.
Depends on whether you consider it to be the same ship or not. Jhoira scavenged what she could of the original, and replaced what was lost or irrevocably damaged with similar materials as were originally used. We also witness the powerstone be restarted by Tiana, when it previously took collapsing an entire plane into it to give the ship the ability to travel the planes (prior to interplanar travel being made more difficult by the Mending).
This makes it quite a bit like the Ship of Theseus thought experiment. With so much of the original ship having been destroyed and replaced/redone, is it truly still the ship that faced Phyrexia or is it just meant to appear like the original to give the denizens of Dominaria a well known legend to rally behind as they confront a force that wants to rewrite history?
THe angel just jump started it, the power was there, just dormant. I would call it more of a Car of Theseus, the engine, the power, the heart of it is still the same. I would argue that if it required enough changing to be more new ship than old, they would have just made a new one instead of pulling it up. The part of the ship that Yawgmoth took seriously is still there, and I predict that it will be able to go to Ravnica by the end of the story.
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She might not be able to planeshift now, but with Jhoira and Karn's expertise and history with the ship and Venser's notes on the Phyrexian wrecks,they could probably restore that ability. Hell,they can tap Rashmi's mind if they have too.
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If Weatherlight can no longer travel to another plane, then how will their non-walker crew become vital to multiverse politics?
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I think Jhoira's mission here (in addition to striking at the Cabal physically) is to provide counter-propaganda to the Cabal's own propaganda by using the Weatherlight rebuilt from the remains of the original, and descendants of the original's crew.
Depends on whether you consider it to be the same ship or not. Jhoira scavenged what she could of the original, and replaced what was lost or irrevocably damaged with similar materials as were originally used. We also witness the powerstone be restarted by Tiana, when it previously took collapsing an entire plane into it to give the ship the ability to travel the planes (prior to interplanar travel being made more difficult by the Mending).
This makes it quite a bit like the Ship of Theseus thought experiment. With so much of the original ship having been destroyed and replaced/redone, is it truly still the ship that faced Phyrexia or is it just meant to appear like the original to give the denizens of Dominaria a well known legend to rally behind as they confront a force that wants to rewrite history?
That's assuming the Immortal Sun survives the events of Return to Return to Ravnica.
That's probably the plot hook we're gonna see, tbh...
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
Although the fact Ajani seems to be helping hint they might be able to somehow help fight Bolas, which means there still might be more that we don't know yet.
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Can the Planar Bridge portal fit the Weatherlight? It's big enough to fit the Immortal Sun and a standard Gearhulk, but the Weatherlight is much more massive than both.
I find it unlikely that the problem would rest on "they didn't make the gate emitter wide enough" - if the Weatherlight can't go through there's going to be a different explanation.
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
Like a "The ship's hull is organic, so it will get vaporized" kind of explanation?
Maybe. Probably, I'd even venture. Or "failsafe enchantments/panic button"?
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
Regardless of the reason/justification, it does feel almost like a wasted opportunity. I do kinda hope they find some way to sneak planeshifting for people who aren't walkers back in as a story element, but I understand that they want travel between planes of existence to be something special.
On the other hand, maybe they're saving that for when they decide to bring New Phyrexia back in as an antagonistic force?
I understand your disappointment but imagine how satisfying it's going to be when the people restoring the Weatherlight have to work for it across multiple blocks.
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
Honestly, having an angel, you know creatures born of white mana, explore the interactions of white mana across multiple planes sounds pretty dope.
-Modern-
WMartyrProcB
BBurnR
-Commander-
Sure but if they aren't going to matter until the next trip to Dominaria then give that focus chapter to Teferi, Karn or Jaya. It also makes putting together a new Weatherlight crew rather pointless, it was already slightly pointless cause its not like the Jacetice League will be warming the bench while Weatherlight Next Generation is the main team like the OG Weatherlight Crew. But its even worse if the Weatherlight is not going to be around in story.
THe angel just jump started it, the power was there, just dormant. I would call it more of a Car of Theseus, the engine, the power, the heart of it is still the same. I would argue that if it required enough changing to be more new ship than old, they would have just made a new one instead of pulling it up. The part of the ship that Yawgmoth took seriously is still there, and I predict that it will be able to go to Ravnica by the end of the story.