You mean Eldritch Moon. Also I don't think that's intentional.
That's a heck of a coincidence then.
The article specifically tells us that the purple veil smoke represents Bezlenok.Horns and wings and such...........not to get on you but it happens quite often that people speculate or misinterpret a card because they dont bother to actually read the articles associated with the spoiler
Check out the purple magic erupting from Liliana. While it superficially mimics her tattoos, it's specifically forming horns and wings around her. Here she's enacting Belzenlok's will. The implied Belzenlok here speaks to his shadowy work altering Dominaria's history in order to accumulate even more power. This seems like an omen that won't bode will for Liliana's future in this set
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Been a member here for over a dozen years. Playing since '95 just got lost in the twitch shuffle.
You mean Eldritch Moon. Also I don't think that's intentional.
That's a heck of a coincidence then.
The article specifically tells us that the purple veil smoke represents Bezlenok.Horns and wings and such...........not to get on you but it happens quite often that people speculate or misinterpret a card because they dont bother to actually read the articles associated with the spoiler
Check out the purple magic erupting from Liliana. While it superficially mimics her tattoos, it's specifically forming horns and wings around her. Here she's enacting Belzenlok's will. The implied Belzenlok here speaks to his shadowy work altering Dominaria's history in order to accumulate even more power. This seems like an omen that won't bode will for Liliana's future in this set
So, in other words, Liliana won't just get off scot-free for attempting to kill Belzenlok.
You mean Eldritch Moon. Also I don't think that's intentional.
That's a heck of a coincidence then.
The article specifically tells us that the purple veil smoke represents Bezlenok.Horns and wings and such...........not to get on you but it happens quite often that people speculate or misinterpret a card because they dont bother to actually read the articles associated with the spoiler
Check out the purple magic erupting from Liliana. While it superficially mimics her tattoos, it's specifically forming horns and wings around her. Here she's enacting Belzenlok's will. The implied Belzenlok here speaks to his shadowy work altering Dominaria's history in order to accumulate even more power. This seems like an omen that won't bode will for Liliana's future in this set
So, in other words, Liliana won't just get off scot-free for attempting to kill Belzenlok.
The question then is, will the "consequence" be something of Bolas's doing (ie something he put in when he "brokered" the deal), which we all expect, or will it be some secret clause that Belzenlok put in - similar to that other no-direct-attacks clause we've seen.
You mean Eldritch Moon. Also I don't think that's intentional.
That's a heck of a coincidence then.
The article specifically tells us that the purple veil smoke represents Bezlenok.Horns and wings and such...........not to get on you but it happens quite often that people speculate or misinterpret a card because they dont bother to actually read the articles associated with the spoiler
Check out the purple magic erupting from Liliana. While it superficially mimics her tattoos, it's specifically forming horns and wings around her. Here she's enacting Belzenlok's will. The implied Belzenlok here speaks to his shadowy work altering Dominaria's history in order to accumulate even more power. This seems like an omen that won't bode will for Liliana's future in this set
I don't read the articles associated with the spoiler because they are usually boring, and going to WOTC's really really crap website for anything aside from the two things I have specific bookmarks for is not worth it, and it is doubly not worth it because Liliana is a terrible character and I only pointed it out because it might have been foreshadowing for the character who lives on a plane to invoke a magical pattern looking like the set symbol that was the last major storyline on that plane, and god help us they aren't going to do the smart thing and kill Lili off so she is going to be there when they actually deal with that storyline.
You mean Eldritch Moon. Also I don't think that's intentional.
That's a heck of a coincidence then.
The article specifically tells us that the purple veil smoke represents Bezlenok.Horns and wings and such...........not to get on you but it happens quite often that people speculate or misinterpret a card because they dont bother to actually read the articles associated with the spoiler
Check out the purple magic erupting from Liliana. While it superficially mimics her tattoos, it's specifically forming horns and wings around her. Here she's enacting Belzenlok's will. The implied Belzenlok here speaks to his shadowy work altering Dominaria's history in order to accumulate even more power. This seems like an omen that won't bode will for Liliana's future in this set
I don't read the articles associated with the spoiler because they are usually boring, and going to WOTC's really really crap website for anything aside from the two things I have specific bookmarks for is not worth it, and it is doubly not worth it because Liliana is a terrible character and I only pointed it out because it might have been foreshadowing for the character who lives on a plane to invoke a magical pattern looking like the set symbol that was the last major storyline on that plane, and god help us they aren't going to do the smart thing and kill Lili off so she is going to be there when they actually deal with that storyline.
I still don't get why you think Liliana is such a terrible character.
Does Blackblade drain/draw energy off the land/leylines to power itself? Because it also feels like a plot point to drive a deeper feud between Nissa and the Gatewatch (mainly Gideon, but I'm pretty sure Liliana's going to be on the same side as he is on using Blackblade by the end of this arc and Liliana's standing is probably rock-bottom among the Gatewatch with Nissa).
Although it won't be a coincidence that both their weapons work really well together, once they actually convince Nissa about Blackblade (or maybe Nissa's sword can empower Blackblade without needing to drain the land, so she's re-tagging along to keep it in check...)
I wonder where the story goes next...we are at a natural break point so we could leave Jhoira, Ajani and Friends and jump back to Lili and Gideon or move to a new character. But we really need to start knocking out some big name characters here since we are a third of the way through. And again I just want to note I consider the team Jhoira is putting together (I mean eventually end up with three former Oldwalkers and Jodah plus the Gatewatch) massive overkill for Belzenlok (especially considering how easy Lili's Demons go down) unless Belzenlok is a warmup for Bolas.
I think the problem is usually when you get a villain who joins the good guys, they are not a complete monster. Lili though is a pretty shallow monster with weak motivations that are mostly based on extending her lifespan and doing whatever she wants. Its hard to take the Gatewatch seriously as a team of heroes when they consort with a known and unrepentant vain monster in Liliana Vess. She lacks nuance compared to Sorin, Vraska and Angrath.
Does Blackblade drain/draw energy off the land/leylines to power itself? Because it also feels like a plot point to drive a deeper feud between Nissa and the Gatewatch (mainly Gideon, but I'm pretty sure Liliana's going to be on the same side as he is on using Blackblade by the end of this arc and Liliana's standing is probably rock-bottom among the Gatewatch with Nissa).
Although it won't be a coincidence that both their weapons work really well together, once they actually convince Nissa about Blackblade (or maybe Nissa's sword can empower Blackblade without needing to drain the land, so she's re-tagging along to keep it in check...)
It wasn't really explained how the Blackblade worked; it is known, however, that it was created by the blacksmith Dakkon with thousand of heating and cooling it every time in the blood of a slave. The power and costitution equal to the land controlled was in reality the ability of Dakkon himself (Dakkon Blackblade's power and toughness are each equal to the number of lands you control "My power is as vast as the plains; my strength is that of mountains. Each wave that crashes upon the shore thunders like blood in my veins") Silly: looking at that flavor text, you would believe that Dakkon is Jeskai, instead of Esper.
New story is up. Once again plot seems on a rush but we can now see Teferi role in the story.
I kinda failed to see the point of Ajani and the weatherlight, besides getting from plot a to plot b. And Ajani is to gather more allies :/
Jhoira now know about Venser and Karn and it seems Karn has been on Dominaria for awhile.
Jodah has been playing teacher since we saw him...with some with mild dyslexia I got him and Jhoira confused and if Jaya shows up thats even more of a headache.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I’m glad I’m not the only one. I get mild dyslexia between Jodah and Jhoira and Tiana and Tien. Why do they have to give such similar names to characters?
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Modern
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
" Your contract is in default. You belong to me now. Serve, or die."
-Nicol Bolas
Called it...Sort of.
Quote from Perkunas687 »
Also, how do we know killing all the demons won't wipe out their deals with Liliana? What kind of system would that be if you could just kill them and keep what they gave you? That would also be a twist if by killing her last demon, she destroys their gifts and speed-ages.
...which would have her desperately searching for a new solution, and could put her....
Oh no, it seems Nicol Bolas contract had some fine print and it looks Liliana is betraying the gatewatch, who could forseen such a great tragedy? [/end sarcasm]
I wouldn't be surprised if Gideon had an abridged version of: "Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal." from Firefly at this point.
This also makes Nissa look like the voice of reason. When she objected to Gideon when it came to slaying the last demon.
Nissa was incredulous. "That will make her as much of an interplanar threat as Bolas!"
Which means that either:
A) Nissa rejoins of her own accord when realizing they will need her help if Liliana will (or has) betray the gatewatch.
B) Gideon and Co confess she was right and they need her help with Nicol Bolas and Liliana.
Again, if Liliana fell prey to hidden clauses in her contract, she's guilty of gross carelessness, but not betrayal. (Betrayal requires a conscious act.) You can argue that negligence on such a scale is betrayal in its own right, but we do not know the details as of yet. It's possible that she did, in fact, read all of the terms and conditions and Bolas simply hid it from her.
I find the juxtaposition of Liliana and Vraska quite amazing after this.
Liliana, the person who knowingly wants to help the Gatewatch (if only to help herself) magically prevented from doing so.
Vraska, the person who unknowingly wants to help the Gatewatch magically enabled to do so.
And poor Jace in the middle.
Dibs on Vraska petrifying Liliana at the critical moment. Taking bets, current odds 5-to-1 against.
As far as Nissa goes, she was right, but not for the right reasons. (This assumes that Nissa did not know more about the contract than Liliana, which seems reasonable.) It would be very dangerous for the Gatewatch to accept Nissa's reasons at face value. I'll also note that Liliana was the voice of reason on Amonkhet, and unlike Nissa, for the right reasons.
Does anyone know what the artifact in tolaria west was?
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SonofaBith - Wizards was so excited about making the packaging for Modern Masters 2 recyclable, they decided to make most of the rares and all but 1 of the UC's recycle-bin ready too. Convenient!
Whether she knew or didn't know about a clause within the contract is still the worst thing for the end result. In both versions, she is using the gatewatch to achieve her goal and this is with knowledge that Nicol Bolas helped broker the contracts with those demons. I'm still siding with Nissa on this one as the more pragmatic choice would be to not kill the demon. As there is the risk of a potential problem placed by Nicol Bolas through the contracts and completing the contract sets the gatewatch and Liliana more importantly back. Its like Chandra's suggestion on repeat from Kaladesh, "Lets just walk into his trap if there is one, its not like Nicol Bolas thought this might happen or would have a contingency plan." (abridged version)
Whether she knew or didn't know about a clause within the contract is still the worst thing for the end result. In both versions, she is using the gatewatch to achieve her goal and this is with knowledge that Nicol Bolas helped broker the contracts with those demons. I'm still siding with Nissa on this one as the more pragmatic choice would be to not kill the demon. As there is the risk of a potential problem placed by Nicol Bolas through the contracts and completing the contract sets the gatewatch and Liliana more importantly back. Its like Chandra's suggestion on repeat from Kaladesh, "Lets just walk into his trap if there is one, its not like Nicol Bolas thought this might happen or would have a contingency plan." (abridged version)
Possibly, but this argues from a consequentialist ethical perspective that I simply do not share. More importantly, Nissa did not argue that killing the demon would help Nicol Bolas directly; she argued (as you quoted) that Liliana would become a threat as big as Bolas. Which, frankly, is not true. Even without the demons, I don't think Liliana is in Bolas's league. I grant Nissa full leeway in light of her very clear mental and physical exhaustion, but she was not really correct.
If you argue pragmatically, the choice would be to kill the demon. Nowhere has it been shown (to my knowledge) that anyone but Liliana knows that Bolas was involved in the contract. Jace might have known, but there's certainly no indication that Nissa knew. So the argument boils down to, "Kill the demon because that makes an ally more powerful," and, "Don't kill the demon because it may lead to a worse situation." Both arguments have their merits, but the second argument is not a pragmatic argument. Also recall that Nissa was not merely disagreeing with Liliana over their priorities. She wanted Liliana kicked out of the Gatewatch because... she was trying to kill multiple birds (i.e., the Gatewatch mandate AND killing her demons) with one stone? It's a bit hypocritical of her considering that the Gatewatch came about by trying to help Nissa with a personal goal, no? (Saving Zendikar.)
Am I letting Liliana off here? Certainly not. She messed up, and good, and it's going to have bad consequences both for herself personally and for others who relied on her (currently Gideon, mostly). I am just pointing out that Liliana has been, at least since the fight with Bolas, very open about her plans and attitudes, and Nissa was the one who left the Gatewatch willingly because she didn't trust her. By any view of the situation with Bolas at the end of the Dominaria story, Liliana isn't joining Bolas willingly. It may have been her fault, but it was not her choice.
Does anyone know what the artifact in tolaria west was?
Are you asking about the artifact used against our Heroes or the missing artifact?
I was under the impression it was the same item. But the answer to either would be cool
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SonofaBith - Wizards was so excited about making the packaging for Modern Masters 2 recyclable, they decided to make most of the rares and all but 1 of the UC's recycle-bin ready too. Convenient!
The article specifically tells us that the purple veil smoke represents Bezlenok.Horns and wings and such...........not to get on you but it happens quite often that people speculate or misinterpret a card because they dont bother to actually read the articles associated with the spoiler
Check out the purple magic erupting from Liliana. While it superficially mimics her tattoos, it's specifically forming horns and wings around her. Here she's enacting Belzenlok's will. The implied Belzenlok here speaks to his shadowy work altering Dominaria's history in order to accumulate even more power. This seems like an omen that won't bode will for Liliana's future in this set
So, in other words, Liliana won't just get off scot-free for attempting to kill Belzenlok.
The question then is, will the "consequence" be something of Bolas's doing (ie something he put in when he "brokered" the deal), which we all expect, or will it be some secret clause that Belzenlok put in - similar to that other no-direct-attacks clause we've seen.
I don't read the articles associated with the spoiler because they are usually boring, and going to WOTC's really really crap website for anything aside from the two things I have specific bookmarks for is not worth it, and it is doubly not worth it because Liliana is a terrible character and I only pointed it out because it might have been foreshadowing for the character who lives on a plane to invoke a magical pattern looking like the set symbol that was the last major storyline on that plane, and god help us they aren't going to do the smart thing and kill Lili off so she is going to be there when they actually deal with that storyline.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
I still don't get why you think Liliana is such a terrible character.
Although it won't be a coincidence that both their weapons work really well together, once they actually convince Nissa about Blackblade (or maybe Nissa's sword can empower Blackblade without needing to drain the land, so she's re-tagging along to keep it in check...)
I think the problem is usually when you get a villain who joins the good guys, they are not a complete monster. Lili though is a pretty shallow monster with weak motivations that are mostly based on extending her lifespan and doing whatever she wants. Its hard to take the Gatewatch seriously as a team of heroes when they consort with a known and unrepentant vain monster in Liliana Vess. She lacks nuance compared to Sorin, Vraska and Angrath.
It wasn't really explained how the Blackblade worked; it is known, however, that it was created by the blacksmith Dakkon with thousand of heating and cooling it every time in the blood of a slave. The power and costitution equal to the land controlled was in reality the ability of Dakkon himself (Dakkon Blackblade's power and toughness are each equal to the number of lands you control "My power is as vast as the plains; my strength is that of mountains. Each wave that crashes upon the shore thunders like blood in my veins") Silly: looking at that flavor text, you would believe that Dakkon is Jeskai, instead of Esper.
BOOM.
" Your contract is in default. You belong to me now. Serve, or die."
-Nicol Bolas
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Bolas: Did you really think I brokered those deals for free? That I, Nicol Bolas, had no ulterior motive whatsoever?
Liliana: Well yeah?
Bolas: *Facepalm*
I kinda failed to see the point of Ajani and the weatherlight, besides getting from plot a to plot b. And Ajani is to gather more allies :/
Jhoira now know about Venser and Karn and it seems Karn has been on Dominaria for awhile.
Jodah has been playing teacher since we saw him...with some with mild dyslexia I got him and Jhoira confused and if Jaya shows up thats even more of a headache.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
Called it...Sort of.
Click the pic for more info.
I wouldn't be surprised if Gideon had an abridged version of: "Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal." from Firefly at this point.
This also makes Nissa look like the voice of reason. When she objected to Gideon when it came to slaying the last demon.
A) Nissa rejoins of her own accord when realizing they will need her help if Liliana will (or has) betray the gatewatch.
B) Gideon and Co confess she was right and they need her help with Nicol Bolas and Liliana.
I find the juxtaposition of Liliana and Vraska quite amazing after this.
Liliana, the person who knowingly wants to help the Gatewatch (if only to help herself) magically prevented from doing so.
Vraska, the person who unknowingly wants to help the Gatewatch magically enabled to do so.
And poor Jace in the middle.
Dibs on Vraska petrifying Liliana at the critical moment. Taking bets, current odds 5-to-1 against.
As far as Nissa goes, she was right, but not for the right reasons. (This assumes that Nissa did not know more about the contract than Liliana, which seems reasonable.) It would be very dangerous for the Gatewatch to accept Nissa's reasons at face value. I'll also note that Liliana was the voice of reason on Amonkhet, and unlike Nissa, for the right reasons.
GW Rhys the Redeemed EDH
RUGAnimar, Soul of Elements EDH
WBRAlesha, Who Smiles at Death EDH
Are you asking about the artifact used against our Heroes or the missing artifact?
Possibly, but this argues from a consequentialist ethical perspective that I simply do not share. More importantly, Nissa did not argue that killing the demon would help Nicol Bolas directly; she argued (as you quoted) that Liliana would become a threat as big as Bolas. Which, frankly, is not true. Even without the demons, I don't think Liliana is in Bolas's league. I grant Nissa full leeway in light of her very clear mental and physical exhaustion, but she was not really correct.
If you argue pragmatically, the choice would be to kill the demon. Nowhere has it been shown (to my knowledge) that anyone but Liliana knows that Bolas was involved in the contract. Jace might have known, but there's certainly no indication that Nissa knew. So the argument boils down to, "Kill the demon because that makes an ally more powerful," and, "Don't kill the demon because it may lead to a worse situation." Both arguments have their merits, but the second argument is not a pragmatic argument. Also recall that Nissa was not merely disagreeing with Liliana over their priorities. She wanted Liliana kicked out of the Gatewatch because... she was trying to kill multiple birds (i.e., the Gatewatch mandate AND killing her demons) with one stone? It's a bit hypocritical of her considering that the Gatewatch came about by trying to help Nissa with a personal goal, no? (Saving Zendikar.)
Am I letting Liliana off here? Certainly not. She messed up, and good, and it's going to have bad consequences both for herself personally and for others who relied on her (currently Gideon, mostly). I am just pointing out that Liliana has been, at least since the fight with Bolas, very open about her plans and attitudes, and Nissa was the one who left the Gatewatch willingly because she didn't trust her. By any view of the situation with Bolas at the end of the Dominaria story, Liliana isn't joining Bolas willingly. It may have been her fault, but it was not her choice.
I was under the impression it was the same item. But the answer to either would be cool
GW Rhys the Redeemed EDH
RUGAnimar, Soul of Elements EDH
WBRAlesha, Who Smiles at Death EDH
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB