Should it ever come to a mass-planeswalker Bolas showdown (which I actually really would like to see) then Samut is practically guaranteed to join. Sarkhan and Narset might join as well if Ugin decides to enter the fray (maybe at the last minute when all hope seems lost, Ugin rides in like Gandalf at Helm's Deep with Sarkhan and Narset at his side, haha)
What I wonder is, what is the gatewatch going to do to Bolas should be be defeated? I mean, he is a tad too powerful to live, but killing him is a bit extreme, at least when Gideon and Jace and possibly Nissa have a say in this matter. Maybe strip him off his powers, erase his memories (though that begs the philosophical question whether or not that qualifies as killing him, in a way)?
Bolas has a lot of useful knowledge, which would be wasted if they kill him. He won't necessarily lose (all of) that knowledge if they somehow wipe his memories, but it's a big multiverse, and I'm willing to bet that there are worse things out there than Bolas.
Should it ever come to a mass-planeswalker Bolas showdown (which I actually really would like to see) then Samut is practically guaranteed to join. Sarkhan and Narset might join as well if Ugin decides to enter the fray (maybe at the last minute when all hope seems lost, Ugin rides in like Gandalf at Helm's Deep with Sarkhan and Narset at his side, haha)
What I wonder is, what is the gatewatch going to do to Bolas should be be defeated? I mean, he is a tad too powerful to live, but killing him is a bit extreme, at least when Gideon and Jace and possibly Nissa have a say in this matter. Maybe strip him off his powers, erase his memories (though that begs the philosophical question whether or not that qualifies as killing him, in a way)?
Barring Creative specifically wanting to kill off Bolas, I'm very certain that any defeat of Bolas will result in him fleeing, not him captured or dead. Obviously, that's still a huge accomplishment for the Gatewatch, and would probably get paired with some sort of more decisive defeat of either some portion of his plans or one or more of his henchmen. I do very much doubt they'd kill off Bolas himself, though, given how much power he has, and the obvious expedient of "he planeswalked away!" as an out.
Should it ever come to a mass-planeswalker Bolas showdown (which I actually really would like to see) then Samut is practically guaranteed to join. Sarkhan and Narset might join as well if Ugin decides to enter the fray (maybe at the last minute when all hope seems lost, Ugin rides in like Gandalf at Helm's Deep with Sarkhan and Narset at his side, haha)
What I wonder is, what is the gatewatch going to do to Bolas should be be defeated? I mean, he is a tad too powerful to live, but killing him is a bit extreme, at least when Gideon and Jace and possibly Nissa have a say in this matter. Maybe strip him off his powers, erase his memories (though that begs the philosophical question whether or not that qualifies as killing him, in a way)?
Barring Creative specifically wanting to kill off Bolas, I'm very certain that any defeat of Bolas will result in him fleeing, not him captured or dead. Obviously, that's still a huge accomplishment for the Gatewatch, and would probably get paired with some sort of more decisive defeat of either some portion of his plans or one or more of his henchmen. I do very much doubt they'd kill off Bolas himself, though, given how much power he has, and the obvious expedient of "he planeswalked away!" as an out.
OR they could trap him again, especially if we're to assume that Ugin is the one who invented this anti-planeswalking tech on Ixalan.
I mean, yeah, trapping him is a possibility, but are they really going to pull that stunt again after Emrakul? I sincerely hope the resolution to this conflict will be different.
Ugin, at the very least, should know that trapping is at best a temporary solution; and as Ugin is really the only one of Bolas'current enemies with a long enough lifespan to realistically be around when a pissed off elder dragon who already killed him once inevitably gets free I doubt Ugin would be okay with a plan that merely contains him.
ETA: That is, of course, unless Ugin has nebulous plans that somehow require Bolas' continued survival. At which point I will heave the most put-upon sigh, shake my head, and wash my hands of the whole mess.
Ugin, at the very least, should know that trapping is at best a temporary solution; and as Ugin is really the only one of Bolas'current enemies with a long enough lifespan to realistically be around when a pissed off elder dragon who already killed him once inevitably gets free I doubt Ugin would be okay with a plan that merely contains him.
ETA: That is, of course, unless Ugin has nebulous plans that somehow require Bolas' continued survival. At which point I will heave the most put-upon sigh, shake my head, and wash my hands of the whole mess.
Who knows what sort of effect taking an Elder Dragon out could have on the multiversal ecosystem. We can't kill him. There may be dire consequences. Maybe not in your lifetime blah blah Eldrazi. Lol
Ugin, at the very least, should know that trapping is at best a temporary solution; and as Ugin is really the only one of Bolas'current enemies with a long enough lifespan to realistically be around when a pissed off elder dragon who already killed him once inevitably gets free I doubt Ugin would be okay with a plan that merely contains him.
ETA: That is, of course, unless Ugin has nebulous plans that somehow require Bolas' continued survival. At which point I will heave the most put-upon sigh, shake my head, and wash my hands of the whole mess.
Who knows what sort of effect taking an Elder Dragon out could have on the multiversal ecosystem. We can't kill him. There may be dire consequences. Maybe not in your lifetime blah blah Eldrazi. Lol
Well, to be fair, in contrast to the Eldrazi we know that the death of Elder Dragons doesn't have lasting consequences for the multiverse (since all of Bolas' brothers and sisters are long dead). But still, I would find it very disappointing if they give Ugin a passive role in defeating a threat to the multiverse AGAIN because of "wasted potential" or something similar. He did seem eager to kill Bolas when he had the chance, only thwarted by Yasova casting Insurrection in the end. I would like to see him in more proactive role for once. Until now his role in the story can be described as "being dead"/"being comatose" - "being awakened" - "giving information to a main character" and "being disgruntled because of the actions of the main characters". We didn't even see him using his energy transforming magic up until now (except for the dragon tempests, but those don't really count).
Ugin, at the very least, should know that trapping is at best a temporary solution; and as Ugin is really the only one of Bolas'current enemies with a long enough lifespan to realistically be around when a pissed off elder dragon who already killed him once inevitably gets free I doubt Ugin would be okay with a plan that merely contains him.
ETA: That is, of course, unless Ugin has nebulous plans that somehow require Bolas' continued survival. At which point I will heave the most put-upon sigh, shake my head, and wash my hands of the whole mess.
Who knows what sort of effect taking an Elder Dragon out could have on the multiversal ecosystem. We can't kill him. There may be dire consequences. Maybe not in your lifetime blah blah Eldrazi. Lol
Well, to be fair, in contrast to the Eldrazi we know that the death of Elder Dragons doesn't have lasting consequences for the multiverse (since all of Bolas' brothers and sisters are long dead). But still, I would find it very disappointing if they give Ugin a passive role in defeating a threat to the multiverse AGAIN because of "wasted potential" or something similar. He did seem eager to kill Bolas when he had the chance, only thwarted by Yasova casting Insurrection in the end. I would like to see him in more proactive role for once. Until now his role in the story can be described as "being dead"/"being comatose" - "being awakened" - "giving information to a main character" and "being disgruntled because of the actions of the main characters". We didn't even see him using his energy transforming magic up until now (except for the dragon tempests, but those don't really count).
On the other hand, Bolas Rules a good chunk of the planes out there. Killing him would..leave some chaos behind.
The Abzan within me hopes they do what must be done and kill him, wasted intellectual resources or no.
He is too great of a threat, has harmed too many worlds and ended/manipulated too many lives to live- and all of these out of pure, selfish ambition.
That being said it might be all that the heroes are capable of just to seal him.
The [insert whatever color combination fits this mindset here] in me is saying that though he has done that, the big golden lizard might be needed if the New Phyrexians ever had a breakthrough with portal technology, or something even more threatening to the Multiverse came along.
The Abzan within me hopes they do what must be done and kill him, wasted intellectual resources or no.
He is too great of a threat, has harmed too many worlds and ended/manipulated too many lives to live- and all of these out of pure, selfish ambition.
That being said it might be all that the heroes are capable of just to seal him.
The [insert whatever color combination fits this mindset here] in me is saying that though he has done that, the big golden lizard might be needed if the New Phyrexians ever had a breakthrough with portal technology, or something even more threatening to the Multiverse came along.
Silly Esper,
"Might" is not the same thing as 'will be'. I have full confidence that there are other avenues of recourse should Phyrexia or other interPlanar threats get there.
But without a doubt, if one plans on using a sealed Evil beyond demonic Dragon as a reserve of knowledge 'just in case', the said dragon will use such to his advantage, manipulate his escape and cause one to regret letting him live.
Sure he'll fix your problem, but the alternative outcome will likely look just as bad. It's the typical and tired 'deal with the devil' trope.
I'm not against sometimes doing morally ambiguous things for the greater good, but if I'm gonna do that It's gonna be on mine own terms and not orchestrated by a Being whose evil makes my soul's shadow look like Bant.
And trust me, it's no Bant...
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Wizards. listen. The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
Ixalan's Merfolk continue to impress, now through the story. Their culture fits well into the flavor of the set. Refreshingly didn't follow the apprentice-kills-mentor trope (tho it may at some point.) Fully surprised that Kumena just subdued Tishana. Their dynamic will be interesting if they search for Orazca together.
No clue as to who the last guardian was. A planeswalker is always a reasonable guess.
In an intriguing coincidence, in Jay13x's article today about the identity of the Raven Man, one of the characters mentioned is an apprentice to the planeswalker Kenan Sahrmal who only goes by the title of Guardian. The Guardian's spirit apparently survived after his death, and can speak to the living. Food for thought.
I'm wondering whether we'll get a Kumena card in Rivals of Ixalan, and if so, what colors he'll be. Seems like the river he's named after has some pretty red traits, but Kumena seems a lot more ambitious than just being driven by a desire to take action. Blue-black is my guess, (guessing no green since the "course of inaction" that Kumena seems to so resent is pretty green).
And yeah, Ugin is probably the last guardian they're all talking about. With Nicol Bolas's introduction into the story proper, it's high time that we get Ugin back involved to figure out what it was that Ugin was so concerned about letting Bolas move unchallenged among the planes.
Holy cow, that art from overflowing insight makes Kumena look extremely sinister. Combined with the way he's portrayed in the story makes me think his card might be Dimir or Sultai in Rivals.
The story of the Merfolk was great and now they are definitely my favourite faction.
I am still confused as to how the Sun Empire will fins Orazca. Apparebtly Huatli came up with a spell but are you telling me that nobody else came up with that during all these years?
I think the Merfolk are my favorite tribe in this story now. That was quite the ending. I didn't see that coming.
Neither did Tishana
Guesses to the identity of "The Last Guardian"?
Given the patterns, Ugin.
That was my initial suspicion, but only because we haven't seen him in a while and also because it makes sense to bring him back up now that Bolas is on the rampage again. That said, I couldn't put my finger on any particular evidence that led to that conclusion. It was just gut feeling.
What could the City even do? And would that mean he was the one who put the binding on Ixalan? Is that some sort of way to keep people from spreading word about the City?
Barely related... I wonder how the spell that binds Ixalan would impact the Eldrazi? Has that been discussed before here? I haven't been keeping up as well on this thread as I used to.
Okay, now that that's out of the way, loved the story. They've done a fantastic job of building up three entirely disparate cultures now, to really give this race to Orazca some sort of meaning for everyone. I assume we'll get vampires next week, and then zero in on the actual race to the city for the final four stories.
Just a few thoughts.
1. Interesting that the merfolk can sense the planeswalk barrier- given the comment that a dolphin being unable to break through the surface of the water.
2. The Golden Sun apparently wreaked destruction on Ixalan before- I imagine by allowing otherworldy beings to come in and wreck the place. Getting a very strong Feroz's Ban-esque vibe from all of this (which saddens me, because that diminishes the odds of a return to Ulgrotha)
3. I'm wracking my brain on who the Guardian might be and... I got nothing from existing PWs. It being Bolas or Ugin are way out of place for the plane. Karn, maybe? Whoever it is, its probably pre-mending. I'd wager on a new character, at this point.
4. As anyone else noticed that there's a distinct chivalrous aspect to the world, where it almost seems unneeded death is frowned upon by pretty much everyone? The Sun Empire has gone out of their way to not kill enemies. Vraska's pirates were more focused on subduing, and while she did kill the captain, it seemed more to get the rest of the vampires to stop fighting out of awe. Kumena's drowning of the SE warrior offended all the other merfolk, and Tishana subsumed Kumena's spell to stop him from unnecessarily imperiling more lives. Even the vampires seem to have a very rigid code on what they do and don't do.
Holy cow, that art from overflowing insight makes Kumena look extremely sinister. Combined with the way he's portrayed in the story makes me think his card might be Dimir or Sultai in Rivals.
The story of the Merfolk was great and now they are definitely my favourite faction.
I am still confused as to how the Sun Empire will fins Orazca. Apparebtly Huatli came up with a spell but are you telling me that nobody else came up with that during all these years?
I am pretty certain that the "spell" their champion used to see the city is just Huatli's first planeswalk being mistranslated. Since it got cut short and all she got was a glimpse of something she didn't fully understand she also, probably doesn't understand that it was more than a vision. It's just the people of the empire doing their best to understand something that they (seemingly) have no context for.
Holy cow, that art from overflowing insight makes Kumena look extremely sinister. Combined with the way he's portrayed in the story makes me think his card might be Dimir or Sultai in Rivals.
The story of the Merfolk was great and now they are definitely my favourite faction.
I am still confused as to how the Sun Empire will fins Orazca. Apparebtly Huatli came up with a spell but are you telling me that nobody else came up with that during all these years?
I am pretty certain that the "spell" their champion used to see the city is just Huatli's first planeswalk being mistranslated. Since it got cut short and all she got was a glimpse of something she didn't fully understand she also, probably doesn't understand that it was more than a vision. It's just the people of the empire doing their best to understand something that they (seemingly) have no context for.
Thats what I thought as well but that led me to the question of "how are they going to actually find it?" since every other faction seems to possess the means except for the Sun Empire.
I am still confused as to how the Sun Empire will fins Orazca. Apparebtly Huatli came up with a spell but are you telling me that nobody else came up with that during all these years?
Sort of! When Hualti ignited their planeswalker spark they attempted to walk to Kaladesh, except only the reader knew it was Kaladesh because of the accompanying picture. Hualti told everyone it was a vision of Orazca.
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Bolas has a lot of useful knowledge, which would be wasted if they kill him. He won't necessarily lose (all of) that knowledge if they somehow wipe his memories, but it's a big multiverse, and I'm willing to bet that there are worse things out there than Bolas.
OR they could trap him again, especially if we're to assume that Ugin is the one who invented this anti-planeswalking tech on Ixalan.
ETA: That is, of course, unless Ugin has nebulous plans that somehow require Bolas' continued survival. At which point I will heave the most put-upon sigh, shake my head, and wash my hands of the whole mess.
He is too great of a threat, has harmed too many worlds and ended/manipulated too many lives to live- and all of these out of pure, selfish ambition.
That being said it might be all that the heroes are capable of just to seal him.
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
Who knows what sort of effect taking an Elder Dragon out could have on the multiversal ecosystem. We can't kill him. There may be dire consequences. Maybe not in your lifetime blah blah Eldrazi. Lol
Well, to be fair, in contrast to the Eldrazi we know that the death of Elder Dragons doesn't have lasting consequences for the multiverse (since all of Bolas' brothers and sisters are long dead). But still, I would find it very disappointing if they give Ugin a passive role in defeating a threat to the multiverse AGAIN because of "wasted potential" or something similar. He did seem eager to kill Bolas when he had the chance, only thwarted by Yasova casting Insurrection in the end. I would like to see him in more proactive role for once. Until now his role in the story can be described as "being dead"/"being comatose" - "being awakened" - "giving information to a main character" and "being disgruntled because of the actions of the main characters". We didn't even see him using his energy transforming magic up until now (except for the dragon tempests, but those don't really count).
On the other hand, Bolas Rules a good chunk of the planes out there. Killing him would..leave some chaos behind.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
The [insert whatever color combination fits this mindset here] in me is saying that though he has done that, the big golden lizard might be needed if the New Phyrexians ever had a breakthrough with portal technology, or something even more threatening to the Multiverse came along.
Silly Esper,
"Might" is not the same thing as 'will be'. I have full confidence that there are other avenues of recourse should Phyrexia or other interPlanar threats get there.
But without a doubt, if one plans on using a sealed Evil beyond demonic Dragon as a reserve of knowledge 'just in case', the said dragon will use such to his advantage, manipulate his escape and cause one to regret letting him live.
Sure he'll fix your problem, but the alternative outcome will likely look just as bad. It's the typical and tired 'deal with the devil' trope.
I'm not against sometimes doing morally ambiguous things for the greater good, but if I'm gonna do that It's gonna be on mine own terms and not orchestrated by a Being whose evil makes my soul's shadow look like Bant.
And trust me, it's no Bant...
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-story/shapers-2017-09-27
Modern:R 8Whack R|W White Knights W
Guesses to the identity of "The Last Guardian"?
Given the patterns, Ugin.
Modern:R 8Whack R|W White Knights W
No clue as to who the last guardian was. A planeswalker is always a reasonable guess.
THAT OLD FISH LADY GOT KNOCKED THE **** OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And yeah, Ugin is probably the last guardian they're all talking about. With Nicol Bolas's introduction into the story proper, it's high time that we get Ugin back involved to figure out what it was that Ugin was so concerned about letting Bolas move unchallenged among the planes.
The story of the Merfolk was great and now they are definitely my favourite faction.
I am still confused as to how the Sun Empire will fins Orazca. Apparebtly Huatli came up with a spell but are you telling me that nobody else came up with that during all these years?
UBarrin, Master WizardU
USticher GeralfU
UIxidor, Reality SculptorU
UWNoyan Dar, Roil ShaperUW
That was my initial suspicion, but only because we haven't seen him in a while and also because it makes sense to bring him back up now that Bolas is on the rampage again. That said, I couldn't put my finger on any particular evidence that led to that conclusion. It was just gut feeling.
What could the City even do? And would that mean he was the one who put the binding on Ixalan? Is that some sort of way to keep people from spreading word about the City?
Barely related... I wonder how the spell that binds Ixalan would impact the Eldrazi? Has that been discussed before here? I haven't been keeping up as well on this thread as I used to.
Just a few thoughts.
1. Interesting that the merfolk can sense the planeswalk barrier- given the comment that a dolphin being unable to break through the surface of the water.
2. The Golden Sun apparently wreaked destruction on Ixalan before- I imagine by allowing otherworldy beings to come in and wreck the place. Getting a very strong Feroz's Ban-esque vibe from all of this (which saddens me, because that diminishes the odds of a return to Ulgrotha)
3. I'm wracking my brain on who the Guardian might be and... I got nothing from existing PWs. It being Bolas or Ugin are way out of place for the plane. Karn, maybe? Whoever it is, its probably pre-mending. I'd wager on a new character, at this point.
4. As anyone else noticed that there's a distinct chivalrous aspect to the world, where it almost seems unneeded death is frowned upon by pretty much everyone? The Sun Empire has gone out of their way to not kill enemies. Vraska's pirates were more focused on subduing, and while she did kill the captain, it seemed more to get the rest of the vampires to stop fighting out of awe. Kumena's drowning of the SE warrior offended all the other merfolk, and Tishana subsumed Kumena's spell to stop him from unnecessarily imperiling more lives. Even the vampires seem to have a very rigid code on what they do and don't do.
I am pretty certain that the "spell" their champion used to see the city is just Huatli's first planeswalk being mistranslated. Since it got cut short and all she got was a glimpse of something she didn't fully understand she also, probably doesn't understand that it was more than a vision. It's just the people of the empire doing their best to understand something that they (seemingly) have no context for.
Thats what I thought as well but that led me to the question of "how are they going to actually find it?" since every other faction seems to possess the means except for the Sun Empire.
UBarrin, Master WizardU
USticher GeralfU
UIxidor, Reality SculptorU
UWNoyan Dar, Roil ShaperUW
Sort of! When Hualti ignited their planeswalker spark they attempted to walk to Kaladesh, except only the reader knew it was Kaladesh because of the accompanying picture. Hualti told everyone it was a vision of Orazca.