After reading today's story, I'm pretty much jumping into the bandwagon that Ugin was responsible for Ixalan's planar lock.
Put it simply, Bolas seems to know a great lot of things about Ixalan without being there, not the least of which is that there's a specific something in Orazca that he wants now. If Ixalan disables planeswalking out, how could Bolas ever know about Ixalan at all? Solution: He learnt it from Ugin after beating the spirit dragon long ago, which explains how he knows Ixalan without ever visiting.
As to what use that something in Orazca is for, I have no clue, certainly, but my major suspicion is that he's making something of a... I dunno what to call it, portable planar prison? If whatever that thing is in Orazca locks planeswalkers up in Ixalan, I suspect Bolas wants that item to make a device that allows him to seal anyone he wishes in a pocket dimension without a means to escape. Primary target, absolutely, would be Ugin, the next strongest being in the multiverse who has enough capability to threaten him. (even if not right now)
Also kinda feel sorry for Vraska. If I read Bolas' instructions to her right, having the statements "the means to lead Golgari into glory" and "Vraska will have an empire" separated in a single sentence means that he will lock her up in Ixalan and has someone else lead the Golgari as a first step to take over Ravnica.
Hmm, could the Eternal Sun be a Thran Power Stone?
Edit 40 Days? Latvia must be having an absolute break down by now.
Worse than that, Jace went to Ixalan directly from Amonkhet, which he went to directly from Kaladesh. He's been gone for 2-3 MONTHS or more, all this after having only been back on Ravnica for a few months after spending months away on ZendikarEDIT: Innistrad, sorry.
Lavinia's going to wrap that stupid cloak around his neck and nail it to the wall.
Honestly if we go back to Ravnica and the entire plane isn't in disarray due to Jace's multiple extended, unplanned absences, I just don't think I'd be able to suspend my disbelief enough to take the set seriously.
Unless of course the spell identifies Orazca's location to walk directly to it.
That was my general point yeah. I'm guessing the spell sets up a "beacon" that will show the agent where to walk too. Also why Bolas doesn't just send the agent there himself, let an hired minion to do the grunt work on an planeswalker trapping plane and if she dies no lose to Bolas.
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We are gonna go back there and Rakdos is gonna be doing the Carlton Dance with Niv-Mizzet and Kraaj 2.0
I'd pay to see that.
I am sure that is not unusual.
Agreed.
The only alternative to complete disarray that I would accept, is if he returns to find the plane a perfect harmonious happyhappy joyjoy utopia, Stepford Wives style, to kickstart another mystery/investigation block.
We are gonna go back there and Rakdos is gonna be doing the Carlton Dance with Niv-Mizzet and Kraaj 2.0
I'd pay to see that.
I am sure that is not unusual.
Agreed.
The only alternative to complete disarray that I would accept, is if he returns to find the plane a perfect harmonious happyhappy joyjoy utopia, Stepford Wives style, to kickstart another mystery/investigation block.
Agreed.
The only alternative to complete disarray that I would accept, is if he returns to find the plane a perfect harmonious happyhappy joyjoy utopia, Stepford Wives style, to kickstart another mystery/investigation block.
You mean that the plane has been converted by the Selesnya?
I predict that the planar bridge will be used to move the Immortal Sun off of Ixalan, which will remove the anti-planeswalking shield from the plane. I suspect that Bolas is planning to use it to lock in a different plane, so that no one can leave it without using his bridge. What plane could that be, though?
In other words, you think he'll use the wombo combo of the Sun and the Planar Bridge to hold planeswalkers on a plane of his choosing at ransom?
Considering it's a popular hub for planeswalkers, Ravnica perhaps?
I don't know about "ransom," but yeah, maybe. Or if he was trying to assassinate a planeswalker, locking them up with the Immortal Sun would be a useful move. Maybe he wants to lock up someone (Ugin?) in order to prey upon them and try to restore his pre-Mending power level. I really think he's got to have a better use for the Sun than simply as a power source.
But the Immortals point more to a planar conquest plan, and I'm not sure how locking planeswalkers *into* a plane would help with that, except maybe locking them on another plane to keep them away from his conquest target?
I like the cleverness of the idea that he might be going after New Phyrexia, though I'm dubious that that's the real story they're planning.
I imagine he's on mobile and got hit by autocorrect.
Nah, I just have no idea what her name is cause I lost interest in the game for a few years when i didn't have anyone to play with. (and Magic Online is hot Garbage I refuse to use)
Except Bolas isn't looking for Ugin, which gives us the advantage.
Obscure Star Wars quote aside, Bolas's plan's cannot possibly include Ugin, as Bolas believed the Spirit Dragon to be dead.
Hopefully this small detail is enough to upset Bolas's goals somewhere down the line...
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Wizards. listen. The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
Except Bolas isn't looking for Ugin, which gives us the advantage.
Obscure Star Wars quote aside, Bolas's plan's cannot possibly include Ugin, as Bolas believed the Spirit Dragon to be dead.
Hopefully this small detail is enough to upset Bolas's goals somewhere down the line...
No, it was revealed at some point during the Amonkhet storyline that he's aware Ugin's back from the dead.
I think that's a wasted opportunity on creative's part, sadly. They could have held Ugin in reserve until Bolas was on the verge of achieving his ultimate goal, and then had Ugin show up and wreck his sh**. That's really the only plausible way for Bolas to lose at this point. He's just SO FAR beyond the abilities of other walkers that a surprise Ugin is just about the only way to keep him in line without a total ass-pull deus ex machina.
Except Bolas isn't looking for Ugin, which gives us the advantage.
Obscure Star Wars quote aside, Bolas's plan's cannot possibly include Ugin, as Bolas believed the Spirit Dragon to be dead.
Hopefully this small detail is enough to upset Bolas's goals somewhere down the line...
No, it was revealed at some point during the Amonkhet storyline that he's aware Ugin's back from the dead.
I think that's a wasted opportunity on creative's part, sadly. They could have held Ugin in reserve until Bolas was on the verge of achieving his ultimate goal, and then had Ugin show up and wreck his sh**. That's really the only plausible way for Bolas to lose at this point. He's just SO FAR beyond the abilities of other walkers that a surprise Ugin is just about the only way to keep him in line without a total ass-pull deus ex machina.
Where?
Are we reading the same stories b/c I don't recall anywhere that Bolas learned of Ugin's resuscitation
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Wizards. listen. The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
Honestly if we go back to Ravnica and the entire plane isn't in disarray due to Jace's multiple extended, unplanned absences, I just don't think I'd be able to suspend my disbelief enough to take the set seriously.
Ral is an agent of Bolas. Unless Bolas doesn't care about Ravnica at all (and thus ignoring the place while it burns down), I suspect he probably has done something like, say, install Ral as a Guildpact simulacrum of sorts to keep the plane under control while he still has use for it. And judging from his lie to Vraska about "giving Golgari the glory it deserves", he probably still does have use for the plane, so he'll probably utilize Ral to stabilize the plane without the Guildpact present.
That, or for some very inexplicable reason, some of the other Gatewatch, say, Gideon or Ajani, decides to fill in Jace's shoes, which is as much a laughable scenario as Ravnica being unscathed without its Guildpact.
Except Bolas isn't looking for Ugin, which gives us the advantage.
Obscure Star Wars quote aside, Bolas's plan's cannot possibly include Ugin, as Bolas believed the Spirit Dragon to be dead.
Hopefully this small detail is enough to upset Bolas's goals somewhere down the line...
No, it was revealed at some point during the Amonkhet storyline that he's aware Ugin's back from the dead.
I think that's a wasted opportunity on creative's part, sadly. They could have held Ugin in reserve until Bolas was on the verge of achieving his ultimate goal, and then had Ugin show up and wreck his sh**. That's really the only plausible way for Bolas to lose at this point. He's just SO FAR beyond the abilities of other walkers that a surprise Ugin is just about the only way to keep him in line without a total ass-pull deus ex machina.
I don't remember which part in Amonkhet story where he says he knows Ugin is alive, but even without that I highly suspect Bolas has already known for a long time that Ugin is alive. One: Yasova might have tipped him off that something other than death happened to Ugin, Two: Tamiyo spreading the word about Gatewatch might have caught Bolas' attention that something happened at Zendikar and thus he found out.
And frankly, at this point of time, with Bolas' influence reaching so far and wide, I'm afraid he cannot lose except by deus ex machina. It's just no longer possible. I mean, seriously, how many beings/entities in the entire multiverse whose powers, alone or collectively, may be anywhere near Bolas' level? Let's see:
1) Ugin. Closest contender, but not so near, and besides as much as he might have a vendetta against Bolas, he seems preoccupied with other issues, especially
2) The Eldrazi. Emrakul is probably strong enough to worry Bolas should she decides to act up, but as an eldritch abomination, she's too unlikely to care about Bolas, leaving the dragon plenty enough time and resource to counter her should she finally decide to stroll to where he's acting.
3) Karn. He's powerful, no doubt, but he's currently busy, and I think he has nothing against Bolas, all things considered, so unlikely to screw him over for whatever reason.
4) New Phyrexia as a whole. They're a very efficient factory, that's one thing. Unfortunately, with Tezzeret having spied on them, not to mention that they are in general a threat to everyone because of what they are, they are unlikely to be of any threat to Bolas now.
Anyone else notice the times phrases were literally repeated within the story? Stuff like Jace proving to be "absurdly useful" twice or Vraska thinking about how nobody had ever hired her to do something besides kill twice with almost exactly the same phrasing both times.
This is sloppy stuff, and makes me wonder if these articles get a proofreader.
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Except Bolas isn't looking for Ugin, which gives us the advantage.
Obscure Star Wars quote aside, Bolas's plan's cannot possibly include Ugin, as Bolas believed the Spirit Dragon to be dead.
Hopefully this small detail is enough to upset Bolas's goals somewhere down the line...
No, it was revealed at some point during the Amonkhet storyline that he's aware Ugin's back from the dead.
I think that's a wasted opportunity on creative's part, sadly. They could have held Ugin in reserve until Bolas was on the verge of achieving his ultimate goal, and then had Ugin show up and wreck his sh**. That's really the only plausible way for Bolas to lose at this point. He's just SO FAR beyond the abilities of other walkers that a surprise Ugin is just about the only way to keep him in line without a total ass-pull deus ex machina.
Where?
Are we reading the same stories b/c I don't recall anywhere that Bolas learned of Ugin's resuscitation
It was the art book for Amonkhet. It states Bolas plans didn't count for Ugin reappearing on Zenikdar and helping the gatewatch kill/seal the eldrazi but it didn't throw off his plans too much.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
About Bolas knowing Ugin is alive: It was never said or implied in the stories that Bolas knows. It first came up when some people here got the amonkhet art book and saw it there. But the art books are questionable sources considering the end stories we get are very different. Nissa's quest to revive Amonkhet was in the art book I think but that plot point never came up in the story.
About Ravnica: Why is everyone so hellbent on believing that Ravnica will descend into civil war without Jace around? They spent years getting along before return to ravnica happened and there was no magic enforcing the guildpact then either. Dont get me wrong, I agree Lavinia will strangle him the moment he shows up and his absemce will have consequences but what with the golgari infighting and the orzhov having a loophole to cheat the guildpact I think that things in Ravnica are bound to go south fast, guildpact or no.
Nissa's quest to revive Amonkhet was in the art book I think but that plot point never came up in the story.
No, that all in the flavor text, art book never says Nissa tries to revive Amonkhet.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Anyone else notice the times phrases were literally repeated within the story? Stuff like Jace proving to be "absurdly useful" twice or Vraska thinking about how nobody had ever hired her to do something besides kill twice with almost exactly the same phrasing both times.
This is sloppy stuff, and makes me wonder if these articles get a proofreader.
Yeah, this one really seemed like it had some serious proofreading problems. I've noticed a few issues with that in previous stories, but there were some major errors in this one.
Except Bolas isn't looking for Ugin, which gives us the advantage.
Obscure Star Wars quote aside, Bolas's plan's cannot possibly include Ugin, as Bolas believed the Spirit Dragon to be dead.
Hopefully this small detail is enough to upset Bolas's goals somewhere down the line...
No, it was revealed at some point during the Amonkhet storyline that he's aware Ugin's back from the dead.
I think that's a wasted opportunity on creative's part, sadly. They could have held Ugin in reserve until Bolas was on the verge of achieving his ultimate goal, and then had Ugin show up and wreck his sh**. That's really the only plausible way for Bolas to lose at this point. He's just SO FAR beyond the abilities of other walkers that a surprise Ugin is just about the only way to keep him in line without a total ass-pull deus ex machina.
Where?
Are we reading the same stories b/c I don't recall anywhere that Bolas learned of Ugin's resuscitation
It was the art book for Amonkhet. It states Bolas plans didn't count for Ugin reappearing on Zenikdar and helping the gatewatch kill/seal the eldrazi but it didn't throw off his plans too much.
Yes, thank you, I was recalling the incorrect source. Spent a good while reviewing the story articles last night trying to find it.
Art books may have a spotty accuracy record, but IMO it's best to accept them as canon until otherwise contradicted.
That's fair, though I'm surprised Nicol Bolas hasn't already acted upon that information should he be privy to it. Only Ugin matches Bolas in sheer inscrutability, a major threat to Bolas I still believe.
Also strange he has been so unaware of Sarkhan Vol. (Edit) Bolas has to have known Sarkhan hails from Tarkir, albeit perhaps even 'ole Horn Drake (insult intended) underestimated Sarkhan Vol. I would not have thought time travel as possible for him...
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Wizards. listen. The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
That's fair, though I'm surprised Nicol Bolas hasn't already acted upon that information should he be privy to it. Only Ugin matches Bolas in sheer inscrutability, a major threat to Bolas I still believe.
And thats why Bolas hasn't acted yet. From what the story has shown Bolas seems afraid to fight Ugin one on one with out setting up a trap.
And while Ugin is a good factor for beating Boals, Ajani idea of gathering allies might also work. We saw that Gideon and Nissa could land hits on Bolas, add in other power hitters like Kiora (and her sea monsters), Narset,(maybe) Vraska, Chandra (with ghostfire?), Lillian and the veil, Sorin, Nahiri, Elspeth supports like Tamiyo, Ajani and Samut who while new, is a speedster and those can be hard to deal with. That said it will take a lot for me to have a believable end to Bolas by the Gatewatch*.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Should it ever come to a mass-planeswalker Bolas showdown (which I actually really would like to see) then Samut is practically guaranteed to join. Sarkhan and Narset might join as well if Ugin decides to enter the fray (maybe at the last minute when all hope seems lost, Ugin rides in like Gandalf at Helm's Deep with Sarkhan and Narset at his side, haha)
What I wonder is, what is the gatewatch going to do to Bolas should be be defeated? I mean, he is a tad too powerful to live, but killing him is a bit extreme, at least when Gideon and Jace and possibly Nissa have a say in this matter. Maybe strip him off his powers, erase his memories (though that begs the philosophical question whether or not that qualifies as killing him, in a way)?
Put it simply, Bolas seems to know a great lot of things about Ixalan without being there, not the least of which is that there's a specific something in Orazca that he wants now. If Ixalan disables planeswalking out, how could Bolas ever know about Ixalan at all? Solution: He learnt it from Ugin after beating the spirit dragon long ago, which explains how he knows Ixalan without ever visiting.
As to what use that something in Orazca is for, I have no clue, certainly, but my major suspicion is that he's making something of a... I dunno what to call it, portable planar prison? If whatever that thing is in Orazca locks planeswalkers up in Ixalan, I suspect Bolas wants that item to make a device that allows him to seal anyone he wishes in a pocket dimension without a means to escape. Primary target, absolutely, would be Ugin, the next strongest being in the multiverse who has enough capability to threaten him. (even if not right now)
Also kinda feel sorry for Vraska. If I read Bolas' instructions to her right, having the statements "the means to lead Golgari into glory" and "Vraska will have an empire" separated in a single sentence means that he will lock her up in Ixalan and has someone else lead the Golgari as a first step to take over Ravnica.
Worse than that, Jace went to Ixalan directly from Amonkhet, which he went to directly from Kaladesh. He's been gone for 2-3 MONTHS or more, all this after having only been back on Ravnica for a few months after spending months away on
ZendikarEDIT: Innistrad, sorry.Lavinia's going to wrap that stupid cloak around his neck and nail it to the wall.
We are gonna go back there and Rakdos is gonna be doing the Carlton Dance with Niv-Mizzet and Kraaj 2.0
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
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Abzan
I'd pay to see that.
That was my general point yeah. I'm guessing the spell sets up a "beacon" that will show the agent where to walk too. Also why Bolas doesn't just send the agent there himself, let an hired minion to do the grunt work on an planeswalker trapping plane and if she dies no lose to Bolas.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I am sure that is not unusual.
Only if is being lead by Latvia.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
I think you mean Lavinia?
I imagine he's on mobile and got hit by autocorrect.
You mean that the plane has been converted by the Selesnya?
I don't know about "ransom," but yeah, maybe. Or if he was trying to assassinate a planeswalker, locking them up with the Immortal Sun would be a useful move. Maybe he wants to lock up someone (Ugin?) in order to prey upon them and try to restore his pre-Mending power level. I really think he's got to have a better use for the Sun than simply as a power source.
But the Immortals point more to a planar conquest plan, and I'm not sure how locking planeswalkers *into* a plane would help with that, except maybe locking them on another plane to keep them away from his conquest target?
I like the cleverness of the idea that he might be going after New Phyrexia, though I'm dubious that that's the real story they're planning.
Nah, I just have no idea what her name is cause I lost interest in the game for a few years when i didn't have anyone to play with. (and Magic Online is hot Garbage I refuse to use)
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
Obscure Star Wars quote aside, Bolas's plan's cannot possibly include Ugin, as Bolas believed the Spirit Dragon to be dead.
Hopefully this small detail is enough to upset Bolas's goals somewhere down the line...
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
No, it was revealed at some point during the Amonkhet storyline that he's aware Ugin's back from the dead.
I think that's a wasted opportunity on creative's part, sadly. They could have held Ugin in reserve until Bolas was on the verge of achieving his ultimate goal, and then had Ugin show up and wreck his sh**. That's really the only plausible way for Bolas to lose at this point. He's just SO FAR beyond the abilities of other walkers that a surprise Ugin is just about the only way to keep him in line without a total ass-pull deus ex machina.
Where?
Are we reading the same stories b/c I don't recall anywhere that Bolas learned of Ugin's resuscitation
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
Ral is an agent of Bolas. Unless Bolas doesn't care about Ravnica at all (and thus ignoring the place while it burns down), I suspect he probably has done something like, say, install Ral as a Guildpact simulacrum of sorts to keep the plane under control while he still has use for it. And judging from his lie to Vraska about "giving Golgari the glory it deserves", he probably still does have use for the plane, so he'll probably utilize Ral to stabilize the plane without the Guildpact present.
That, or for some very inexplicable reason, some of the other Gatewatch, say, Gideon or Ajani, decides to fill in Jace's shoes, which is as much a laughable scenario as Ravnica being unscathed without its Guildpact.
I don't remember which part in Amonkhet story where he says he knows Ugin is alive, but even without that I highly suspect Bolas has already known for a long time that Ugin is alive. One: Yasova might have tipped him off that something other than death happened to Ugin, Two: Tamiyo spreading the word about Gatewatch might have caught Bolas' attention that something happened at Zendikar and thus he found out.
And frankly, at this point of time, with Bolas' influence reaching so far and wide, I'm afraid he cannot lose except by deus ex machina. It's just no longer possible. I mean, seriously, how many beings/entities in the entire multiverse whose powers, alone or collectively, may be anywhere near Bolas' level? Let's see:
1) Ugin. Closest contender, but not so near, and besides as much as he might have a vendetta against Bolas, he seems preoccupied with other issues, especially
2) The Eldrazi. Emrakul is probably strong enough to worry Bolas should she decides to act up, but as an eldritch abomination, she's too unlikely to care about Bolas, leaving the dragon plenty enough time and resource to counter her should she finally decide to stroll to where he's acting.
3) Karn. He's powerful, no doubt, but he's currently busy, and I think he has nothing against Bolas, all things considered, so unlikely to screw him over for whatever reason.
4) New Phyrexia as a whole. They're a very efficient factory, that's one thing. Unfortunately, with Tezzeret having spied on them, not to mention that they are in general a threat to everyone because of what they are, they are unlikely to be of any threat to Bolas now.
This is sloppy stuff, and makes me wonder if these articles get a proofreader.
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It was the art book for Amonkhet. It states Bolas plans didn't count for Ugin reappearing on Zenikdar and helping the gatewatch kill/seal the eldrazi but it didn't throw off his plans too much.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
About Ravnica: Why is everyone so hellbent on believing that Ravnica will descend into civil war without Jace around? They spent years getting along before return to ravnica happened and there was no magic enforcing the guildpact then either. Dont get me wrong, I agree Lavinia will strangle him the moment he shows up and his absemce will have consequences but what with the golgari infighting and the orzhov having a loophole to cheat the guildpact I think that things in Ravnica are bound to go south fast, guildpact or no.
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USticher GeralfU
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No, that all in the flavor text, art book never says Nissa tries to revive Amonkhet.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Yeah, this one really seemed like it had some serious proofreading problems. I've noticed a few issues with that in previous stories, but there were some major errors in this one.
Yes, thank you, I was recalling the incorrect source. Spent a good while reviewing the story articles last night trying to find it.
Art books may have a spotty accuracy record, but IMO it's best to accept them as canon until otherwise contradicted.
Also strange he has been so unaware of Sarkhan Vol. (Edit) Bolas has to have known Sarkhan hails from Tarkir, albeit perhaps even 'ole Horn Drake (insult intended) underestimated Sarkhan Vol. I would not have thought time travel as possible for him...
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
And thats why Bolas hasn't acted yet. From what the story has shown Bolas seems afraid to fight Ugin one on one with out setting up a trap.
And while Ugin is a good factor for beating Boals, Ajani idea of gathering allies might also work. We saw that Gideon and Nissa could land hits on Bolas, add in other power hitters like Kiora (and her sea monsters), Narset,(maybe) Vraska, Chandra (with ghostfire?), Lillian and the veil, Sorin, Nahiri, Elspeth supports like Tamiyo, Ajani and Samut who while new, is a speedster and those can be hard to deal with. That said it will take a lot for me to have a believable end to Bolas by the Gatewatch*.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
What I wonder is, what is the gatewatch going to do to Bolas should be be defeated? I mean, he is a tad too powerful to live, but killing him is a bit extreme, at least when Gideon and Jace and possibly Nissa have a say in this matter. Maybe strip him off his powers, erase his memories (though that begs the philosophical question whether or not that qualifies as killing him, in a way)?