And we're done talking about the relative morality of real-life cultures. The discussion has been had and it has ceased being productive in any capacity. Focus on the stories and tribes, and real-world influences when applicable.
Thank you.
Edit : Now that was a good story, Jace got sunburnt like he should, Jace acts really blue here. Logical from start to finish, and the discovery of his magic felt natural. Casting magic is something that he has been doing for decades, since his teens so most of it should be instinctive to him.
I don't know much of Vraska, but I can believe that almost anyone would react..oddly given the situation. She finds one of the most powerful political people on a plane she knows of in a random, backwater plane, looking like hot garbage. She is caught off guard.
The storyline is really getting better. I think they've really got how a blue character would react to Jace's situation.
I hope the next story starts immediately after this one end. I wonder how Jace is going to react to the information available (i.e. his rescuer is an old enemy of him and doesn't know the detail of what happened to him). Is he going to try to bluff that he hasn't lost his memory (not too hard given that he's a dehydrated castaway, he could be delirious)? Is he going to go "The old me was your enemy, but I'm a different guy, can I serve on your ship?"? Is his telepahty going to come back to him now that he's got other people to practice it on?
Coffee came from Arabia not the New World, that's chocolate.
Actually it's from Ethiopia, but it was indeed introduced to Europe by Arab merchants.
According to legend, we know it was cultivated in Yemen.
Reagardless, Im burnt out on Gate Watch centered stories and this set feels as much centered around Jace if not more then AMK was focused around the Gate Watch.
I just realized that the race for Orazca is clearly the race for the One Piece.
I'm hyped for the MTG shichibukai
On a serious note, good story is good. This was a well written and interesting introduction to "Blank slate Jace" that I really enjoyed. Seeing the way he views Gideon and Liliana (as shown by how they manifest themselves to him through illusion) was pretty cool. I also really liked introduction of Vraska and thought her reaction to seeing Jace was pretty reasonable for what we know of her character. I was already pretty into the world of Ixalan and I'm digging the story so far too.
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
You guys see what I am seeing in that big vesion of Ixalan's Binding art?
That's the Azorius sigil, isn't it?
What the hell was Azor looking for on Ixalan, and is the 'walking barrier his doing?
I honestly believe the ten guilds of Ravnica hate Jace being their Guildpact, and had plans to remove him from office all along. Whether this was of their own volition or another Bolas scheme, the pieces are getting a bit too coincidental. Ral, a figurehead of Izzet is the one who tells Jace about Vraska (also a figurehead of the Golgari, kind of - she's trying to change the leadership anyway) planeswalking to a hidden plane and losing track of her. Bolas wipes Jace's mind save for the small detail of Ixalan. He then tries to planeswalk away and is held in place by an Azorius enchantment. Lavinia of the Azorius guild was none too pleased about his transgressions in the book.
I really like that they're doing an actual map for Ixalan. Combined with the fact that they already have a map for Dominaria, I hope they keep doing this going forward.
I love how the more of the world is shown how all the odd flavor parts work together. Not big in Maya mythology I had heard of Camazotz and his analogue in Aclazotz has so many implications for this world, referencing real mythology, being a bat god and found by vampires, being an enemy to the sun god/the dinosaurs ect.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
There's basically no reason for Azor to be on Ixalan. Flavorfully, everything is pointing at Ugin, and this is perhaps another binding sigil (like the one used to seal the Eldrazi) to keep planeswalkers from leaving. Ravnican magic manifests in guild symbols, but there's nothing to indicate their sigils themselves are magical. There is, however, a bunch that supports Ugin, especially because when you rotate and clean-up the binding sigil, it looks a lot like the symbols on the Hedron and Ugin's Hood. Note too that the sigil matches both the Dusk Legion and Sun Empire symbols.
What I will say is that Ugin and Azor might have known one another at one point, that can't be ruled out, but I wouldn't jump to Azorius. I... don't particularly want another maze Jace has to solve by Azor.
Well, if it is a symbol/the work of Azor, he most likely did whatever he did on Ixalan a long time ago and hasn't been there for a long while (if he's still alive, even).
Honestly, I don't see the Ugin connection at all. The pattern on the hedrons and his hood look no more similar to the pattern on the binding circle than any blocky pattern does, really. Also, the resemblance to the triangular hedron binding mark is more than farfetched.
I'm still sceptical about the Azor connection, but honestly it seems more sensible than an Ugin connection, like, by a landslide.
I do however like the idea that both the vampires and the sun empire derived their faction symbols from the binding circle. That's neat!
Hm, the Ugin theory intrigues me. In narrative structural terms, it's probably about due time for him to get brought back into the story. I think it comports with some more general, less controversial clues we have about Ixalan's Binding:
Because it takes the form of a specific symbol, it seems to be a deliberately engineered/created magical effect, rather than simply being a natural phenomenon.
The similarities between the symbol and the Sun Empire and Dusk Legion symbols indicates that it is likely the symbol of the Immortal Sun artifact, as Jay and SEV cleverly illustrate. That makes perfect sense for narrative economy, as the discovery and use/destruction/whatever of the Immortal Sun can serve as the resolution to both the inter-factional conflict and the planeswalker binding conflict at the same time.
It seems very likely that the creator of the barrier would have had to know about planeswalkers and been powerful enough to control their powers, which implies that it was created by a planeswalker. Both the timeline and the level of power involved indicate a pre-Mending Oldwalker.
I find the relationship between the shape of the sigil and Ugin's Eldrazi binding symbol persuasive, but not definitively so. It's true that they are both visually similar and related to similar phenomena, i.e. binding interplanar entities to a particular plane.
However, I could see the similarity possibly arising merely from similar art design principles rather than by intentional choice. It's possible that WotC art direction simply thinks of triangle/circle combinations as the image of binding magic. It is a fairly generic geometric configuration with some real-world analogues (think of triangular warning signs on American roads, for example). I think this explains the Azorius sigil similarities, as the triangle/circle shapes were originally chosen for that guild to abstractly express their sense of order and constraint. I'll bet we could find some other examples in Magic art with that associated flavor and art design (a quick Gatherer search on "bind" turns up Custodi Soulbinders with their symbol staves, or a bit more subtly on Spatial Binding and Thoughtbind).
It will be interesting if they eventually reveal an Ugin connection. I hope they do, as it could be a fun way to tie Ixalan more into the larger multiverse's narrative structure.
I kind of think that stories about new walkers dealing with lingering remnants of oldwalkers like what the Immortal Sun might be could be a cool thing every now and then.
However, I could see the similarity possibly arising merely from similar art design principles rather than by intentional choice. It's possible that WotC art direction simply thinks of triangle/circle combinations as the image of binding magic. It is a fairly generic geometric configuration with some real-world analogues (think of triangular warning signs on American roads, for example). I think this explains the Azorius sigil similarities, as the triangle/circle shapes were originally chosen for that guild to abstractly express their sense of order and constraint. I'll bet we could find some other examples in Magic art with that associated flavor and art design (a quick Gatherer search on "bind" turns up Custodi Soulbinders with their symbol staves, or a bit more subtly on Spatial Binding and Thoughtbind).
To add to this, Azor I was the author of the original Guildpact, which itself also included a planar binding/barrier against planeswalkers. Whether that's evidence of Azor's involvement, or evidence that binding- planar binding in particular- manifests itself in a circle-and-triangles motif, is open to debate however.
I'll post the full case for Ugin later, there's A LOT more than just Ixalan's Binding. But it's worth noting that the Binding Sigil would look way more like this, with the triangle pointing down instead of up, based on the Vampire's flower symbol. So it would be flipped relative to the Azorius sigil.
There's basically no reason for Azor to be on Ixalan. Flavorfully, everything is pointing at Ugin, and this is perhaps another binding sigil (like the one used to seal the Eldrazi) to keep planeswalkers from leaving. Ravnican magic manifests in guild symbols, but there's nothing to indicate their sigils themselves are magical. There is, however, a bunch that supports Ugin, especially because when you rotate and clean-up the binding sigil, it looks a lot like the symbols on the Hedron and Ugin's Hood. Note too that the sigil matches both the Dusk Legion and Sun Empire symbols.
What I will say is that Ugin and Azor might have known one another at one point, that can't be ruled out, but I wouldn't jump to Azorius. I... don't particularly want another maze Jace has to solve by Azor.
Interesting point. Maybe Ugin experimented with trapping spells? And the one on Ixalan was one of the earlier designs/tries?
What if Ugin is Azor, just under an alias. Ugin has shown to care for balance, which is exactly what the guildpact enabled. Plus, he used to be an oldwalker so appearing as a human or whatever Azor was on Ravnica isn't farfetched at all. Also, if the pattern on the Ixalan binding sigil looks like the draconic runes on his hedrons and neckflaps, then the same counts for the patterning inside the Azorius signet.
What if Ugin is Azor, just under an alias. Ugin has shown to care for balance, which is exactly what the guildpact enabled. Plus, he used to be an oldwalker so appearing as a human or whatever Azor was on Ravnica isn't farfetched at all. Also, if the pattern on the Ixalan binding sigil looks like the draconic runes on his hedrons and neckflaps, then the same counts for the patterning inside the Azorius signet.
Wouldn't that be quite the twist.
Ugin: Jace, I am Azor.
Jace: Noooo! It's impossible!
Ugin: Search your library. You know it to be true.
Given how we keep learning things about Ugin, I wanted to take a second to point out all the evidence that supports Ugin’s involvement on Ixalan at some time in the past:
First up is the mural in the background of the Rivals of Ixalan key art. The figure on the right is depicted in Jade and what appears to be faded green paint. More importantly, we see the figure breathing some sort of colorless fire. Compared to the sunbird depicted to the left which appears to have once been painted red, the ‘fire’ doesn’t appear to have had red pigment.
Next is the dragon banner that Huatli is holding in the Rivals of Ixalan key art. Based on the prominent eyebrow, eye, and snout designs, you can tell this is intended to be the same figure as the mural. Here we can add to the evidence wispy chin hair and the spike-like scales around Ugin’s elbows. This is notably NOT a depiction of Gishath
The concept art from the world guide shows an Ugin-like figure. The ‘feathers’ off to the side resembles Ugin’s hood and the piece on the top looks like one of Ugin’s horns (as if viewed from profile).
More concept art from the world guide show designs that look suspiciously like Ugin’s blocky horns. Might we subtly be seeing Ugin’s influence showing up everywhere?
Ixalan’s Binding is a glowing sigil made up of much smaller designs remiscent of the designs on Ugin’s hood.
We’ve also seen these kind of binding glyphs before, specifically the ones Jace learns from Ugin to bind the Eldrazi.
The fact that Ixalan was hidden from Ral’s Project Lightning Bug seems to imply a kind of magic that Ugin specializes in: Morph.
As a feathered dragon, Ugin is a perfect position to represent Quetzlcoatl, the Nahuatl god of wind and wisdom (which also seems like a match for Ugin). It’s important to note that Ugin’s depiction of feathery wings first appeared in 2015 during Tarkir block (his depiction in The Lithomancer a year earlier notably did not show his wings). It’s a pretty perfect flavor match for a mesoamerican plane.
When Jace reads Bolas’ mind in Hour of Devastation, it reminds him of something. That crystalline mind he remembers and quickly forgets? It matches the description of Ugin’s mind from Revelation at the Eye.
This is all without getting into the Immortal Sun, the Threefold Sun, the sunbird or Aclazotz and the how and why of Ugin getting involved with something on Ixalan. To put it in perspective, I’m more confident about Ugin’s involvement at some point in Ixalan’s past than I was about Nicol Bolas’ end game using Lazotep Zombies.
You've convinced me, Jay! That's some excellent sleuthing.
EDIT TO ADD: Does it also strike anyone that Ixalan seems to some extent to be reviving some of the flavor of pre-Eldrazi Zendikar? It's bringing back the themes of exploration and archaeology that came up in the original Zendikar set and got so abruptly cut off by the Eldrazi sets. I like that, as I've always wished that Zendikar could have remained primarily Adventuring Party World rather than turning into Kaiju Apocalypse World.
See, that I can actually buy. Infact the banner made me think of Ugin when I first saw it, and thought it'd make plenty of sense for him to be on a world with feathered reptiles.
What if Ugin is Azor, just under an alias. Ugin has shown to care for balance, which is exactly what the guildpact enabled. Plus, he used to be an oldwalker so appearing as a human or whatever Azor was on Ravnica isn't farfetched at all. Also, if the pattern on the Ixalan binding sigil looks like the draconic runes on his hedrons and neckflaps, then the same counts for the patterning inside the Azorius signet.
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
Thank you.
Edit : Now that was a good story, Jace got sunburnt like he should, Jace acts really blue here. Logical from start to finish, and the discovery of his magic felt natural. Casting magic is something that he has been doing for decades, since his teens so most of it should be instinctive to him.
I don't know much of Vraska, but I can believe that almost anyone would react..oddly given the situation. She finds one of the most powerful political people on a plane she knows of in a random, backwater plane, looking like hot garbage. She is caught off guard.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
According to legend, we know it was cultivated in Yemen.
Reagardless, Im burnt out on Gate Watch centered stories and this set feels as much centered around Jace if not more then AMK was focused around the Gate Watch.
I'm hyped for the MTG shichibukai
On a serious note, good story is good. This was a well written and interesting introduction to "Blank slate Jace" that I really enjoyed. Seeing the way he views Gideon and Liliana (as shown by how they manifest themselves to him through illusion) was pretty cool. I also really liked introduction of Vraska and thought her reaction to seeing Jace was pretty reasonable for what we know of her character. I was already pretty into the world of Ixalan and I'm digging the story so far too.
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
I honestly believe the ten guilds of Ravnica hate Jace being their Guildpact, and had plans to remove him from office all along. Whether this was of their own volition or another Bolas scheme, the pieces are getting a bit too coincidental. Ral, a figurehead of Izzet is the one who tells Jace about Vraska (also a figurehead of the Golgari, kind of - she's trying to change the leadership anyway) planeswalking to a hidden plane and losing track of her. Bolas wipes Jace's mind save for the small detail of Ixalan. He then tries to planeswalk away and is held in place by an Azorius enchantment. Lavinia of the Azorius guild was none too pleased about his transgressions in the book.
Modern:R 8Whack R|W White Knights W
Camazotz analogue.
I love how the more of the world is shown how all the odd flavor parts work together. Not big in Maya mythology I had heard of Camazotz and his analogue in Aclazotz has so many implications for this world, referencing real mythology, being a bat god and found by vampires, being an enemy to the sun god/the dinosaurs ect.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I wouldn't be surprised if this is completely false either.
My friend SEV breaks it down in more detail here (images taken from his post).
What I will say is that Ugin and Azor might have known one another at one point, that can't be ruled out, but I wouldn't jump to Azorius. I... don't particularly want another maze Jace has to solve by Azor.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Ugin would be a bit boring tbh.
I'm still sceptical about the Azor connection, but honestly it seems more sensible than an Ugin connection, like, by a landslide.
I do however like the idea that both the vampires and the sun empire derived their faction symbols from the binding circle. That's neat!
However, I could see the similarity possibly arising merely from similar art design principles rather than by intentional choice. It's possible that WotC art direction simply thinks of triangle/circle combinations as the image of binding magic. It is a fairly generic geometric configuration with some real-world analogues (think of triangular warning signs on American roads, for example). I think this explains the Azorius sigil similarities, as the triangle/circle shapes were originally chosen for that guild to abstractly express their sense of order and constraint. I'll bet we could find some other examples in Magic art with that associated flavor and art design (a quick Gatherer search on "bind" turns up Custodi Soulbinders with their symbol staves, or a bit more subtly on Spatial Binding and Thoughtbind).
It will be interesting if they eventually reveal an Ugin connection. I hope they do, as it could be a fun way to tie Ixalan more into the larger multiverse's narrative structure.
To add to this, Azor I was the author of the original Guildpact, which itself also included a planar binding/barrier against planeswalkers. Whether that's evidence of Azor's involvement, or evidence that binding- planar binding in particular- manifests itself in a circle-and-triangles motif, is open to debate however.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Interesting point. Maybe Ugin experimented with trapping spells? And the one on Ixalan was one of the earlier designs/tries?
Signature done by DNC from the Heroes of the Plane Studios
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Official Ink Bearer of [The Crafters]
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Old Custom Set: Imminence over Marycion
Wouldn't that be quite the twist.
Ugin: Jace, I am Azor.
Jace: Noooo! It's impossible!
Ugin: Search your library. You know it to be true.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
EDIT TO ADD: Does it also strike anyone that Ixalan seems to some extent to be reviving some of the flavor of pre-Eldrazi Zendikar? It's bringing back the themes of exploration and archaeology that came up in the original Zendikar set and got so abruptly cut off by the Eldrazi sets. I like that, as I've always wished that Zendikar could have remained primarily Adventuring Party World rather than turning into Kaiju Apocalypse World.
Calm down there M. Night.
Should be vampire beast, but eh.