No changes in place;
Dinosaurs/ Sun Empire in 1st place and have 51 points (up 19 points)
Merfolk/ River Herald in 2nd place and have 46 points (up 18 points)
Vampires/ Legion of Dusk in 3rd place and have 32 points (up 12 points)
Pirates/ Brazen Coalition in 4th place and have 29 points (up 11 points)
On the 5th the geocatch thing is added in;
1st will get 12 Points
2nd will get 10 Points
3rd will get 8 Points
4th will get 6 Points
Wasn't that looking to be fixed with vampires losing miles every other day?
Followed some sort of Planeswalker Prime Directive?
That's exactly what Tamiyo was trying to do before she wavered on Innistrad.
Considering the damage planeswalkers have often done to planes despite their intentions, it's not hard to see why someone would prefer taking the "Prime Directive" approach if they're aware of this.
No changes in place;
Dinosaurs/ Sun Empire in 1st place and have 51 points (up 19 points)
Merfolk/ River Herald in 2nd place and have 46 points (up 18 points)
Vampires/ Legion of Dusk in 3rd place and have 32 points (up 12 points)
Pirates/ Brazen Coalition in 4th place and have 29 points (up 11 points)
On the 5th the geocatch thing is added in;
1st will get 12 Points
2nd will get 10 Points
3rd will get 8 Points
4th will get 6 Points
Wasn't that looking to be fixed with vampires losing miles every other day?
I was the one who brought that up, but honestly I haven't bothered to check it since (I've already accepted that the Sun Empire will win). I dunno if I'd call it fixed exactly, I mean if they were rigging the race why draw attention to it by removing miles from factions instead of simply adding more miles to the "winner?" I would call it half-assed and inaccurate, though.
One thing that has always really, really bothered me about Ravnica is the impossible and simplistic notion that ten guilds could last largely unchanged, and in a constant balance of power, ten thousand years. (Tarkir has a similar problem)
Ten competing guilds, established with specific names, identities, cultures, and goals, remain more or less intact for ten thousand years. Not one of them splintered, not one of them fell apart, not one of them was replaced or subsumed or conquered, not one of them struck off to forge a new identity for itself or underwent significant revolution.
The Simic were pretty much completely destroyed in the events of Dissension. The new version of the Simic had just recently been established in Return to Ravnica, meaning that there was no Simic guild at all for decades. Also, the new version of the guild is the same as the old in name only: the original Simic were run by elves and vedalken, and their creations often looked completely alien and were based on cytoplasts. The new Simic consist primarily of merfolk with only a handful of elves, and their creations are actual hybrids of existing animals, most often at least partially aquatic. Additionally, the old Simic used green means to exclusively blue ends, trying to improve nature as much as possible with no concern for the natural order, while the new Simic embody both philosophies by trying to balance nature with progress. Some of the other guilds have changed over time as well, but the Simic is the only one that clearly fell apart and was reborn as an almost completely different entity.
That being said, your point still stands: 10,000 years of stagnation is a lot and is pretty difficult to believe. Tarkir at least has a gap of only 1280 years, but while the lack of technological advancements could be explained away by the constant warfare, you would think that one or more clans would have been completely destroyed or at least splintered into multiple factions. In Khans of Tarkir they mentioned that originally one empire had ruled Tarkir that eventually became the Sultai, but in Fate Reforged we go back centuries and there's still five completely separate clans with no mention of the war starting recently. As others have said, they could easily avoid this by not choosing unnecessarily large numbers to try to make things seem impressive. Things change over time. You can pick a number of years that is relatively large but not completely unbelievable.
The Simic were pretty much completely destroyed in the events of Dissension. The new version of the Simic had just recently been established in Return to Ravnica, meaning that there was no Simic guild at all for decades.[...]
Wait what? How much time passed between Dissension and Return to Ravnica?
60-100 or so years. Its been ~60 years since the mending and the current story and Dissension was pre-mending. In the text they mention its been a generation since the guilds fell and rose. Ravnicans are very long living which why most of the characters are still alive and a generation to them is longer then we'd think it is a well.
EDIT:
Closer to 60-80 years, I forgot Tesya mentions her age in "Family Values" as 112 and I don't think she was much younger then her 20's in the original books.
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
The Simic were pretty much completely destroyed in the events of Dissension. The new version of the Simic had just recently been established in Return to Ravnica, meaning that there was no Simic guild at all for decades.[...]
Wait what? How much time passed between Dissension and Return to Ravnica?
60-100 or so years. Its been ~60 years since the mending and the current story and Dissension was pre-mending. In the text they mention its been a generation since the guilds fell and rose. Ravnicans are very long living which why most of the characters are still alive and a generation to them is longer then we'd think it is a well.
EDIT:
Closer to 60-80 years, I forgot Tesya mentions her age in "Family Values" as 112 and I don't think she was much younger then her 20's in the original books.
Correction: Humans in Ravnica have a similiar lifespan to IRL humans, Teysa was able to live that long because of her bloodline, her ancestors like many in the Orzhov guild have tried to achieve immortality, because of that their offspring usually are born "mutated" for instance teysa is an 112 years old woman who looks like she is in her early thirty's, but was also born with an deficiency on her right leg, side effect such as Teysa's legs are normal within the more powerful Orzhov families.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
BWG
Art student, EDH lover and a strong believer that Delver has the best design in all of MTG.
Correction: Humans in Ravnica have a similiar lifespan to IRL humans, Teysa was able to live that long because of her bloodline, her ancestors like many in the Orzhov guild have tried to achieve immortality, because of that their offspring usually are born "mutated" for instance teysa is an 112 years old woman who looks like she is in her early thirty's, but was also born with an deficiency on her right leg, side effect such as Teysa's legs are normal within the more powerful Orzhov families.
If I'm not mistaken, all Ravnica humans have a larger lifespan... Wasn't Agros Kos really old on the old Ravnica Novels?
Looks like the creative really don't know what to do. They are so quickly to dismiss Azor because he is evil. He really is? Too little effort to convince me, at best i can think he was grey, a guy who did the wrong things for the right reasons. I'm not a 12 years who thinks that authority=evil. Jace, also. After interfering on Zendikar and on Ravnica, with disastrous results, he suddenly is the supreme moral judge... with Vraska? Lol.
About Ravnica, looks like the creative really want to push the "gilds are evil" idea and are ready to destroy them. Yet they can't, because players love them. That's the recipe for a disaster, i fear Ravnica 3.
They never said or even seemed to try to imply that Azor is "evil". The story was trying to portray him as someone with good intentions, but went about it poorly and never made the effort to stick around and ensure that his created governments didn't lose their way.
If you thought that the story was making Azor out to be evil, then what does that say about the other oldwalkers in Magic history?
Also, Jace didn't "interfere" on Zendikar intentionally. He chased after Chandra and ended up confronting her and Sarkhan in the Eye of Ugin simultaneously. At the time, they had no idea what was inside that thing. He admitted he ****ed up when he realized what he had done, and when he did intentionally intervene in Zendikar, he helped save the plane. So, Zendikar is a poor example.
Ravnica is more muddled, because he did interfere in the race to Maze's End, but consider the possible implications if he didn't do it. What if Ral had won, especially now knowing the guy is an agent of Bolas? What if Exava had won?
As for Vraska, it's true that she doesn't really have the moral high ground because she's still an assassin, but considering her history with the guild Azor founded and her "defender of the downtrodden" ideals, are we really surprised that she would take this stance against him? Also, she's not wrong about Azor's impact on Ixalan.
From what i saw, vampirism did way more harm than the sun to the plane and Azor wasn't responsible for that.
But he was. Creation of vampires is a direct consequence of creating the Sun.
All in all, this last story could be nice, if it wasn't written so hasty (which was I suppose necessary, considering only two chapters now remains). One or two pages longer, more nuance in the style, and it could be of the same quality as the rest of Ixalan story.
Off topic, about "Azor is evil": do you know what would be cool? If Azor cooperates with Bolas instead, and creates the Sun as a prison for all other planeswalkers. For him, it could very well be reasoned as a noble quest of cleansing the Multiverse from the unstability and unpredictability of planeswalkers. You know, after they will be all locked down and eliminated, the Multiverse will be stable again. And Bolas would happily agree with that. The ultimate ending of him as the only planeswalker alone would be just a bonus
Heck, they could also use "Project Lightning Bug" as a planeswalkers' tracking device Multiverse-wide (maybe even to those with dormant spark yet).
Then how come the humans of the sun empire and the merfolk aren't vampires? They all had the power of sun.
That's not what he meant. He means that the creation and gifting of the Sun led Elenda to chase after it and subsequently bring vampirism back to Torrezon.
Also on the age thing on Ravnica: I haven't read the old Ravnoca books but I thpught the age thing had to do with the "scab" thing that blocked planeswalking and held spirits from passing or something. Its gone now so I think they live normal human lifespans now.
Then how come the humans of the sun empire and the merfolk aren't vampires? They all had the power of sun.
That's not what he meant. He means that the creation and gifting of the Sun led Elenda to chase after it and subsequently bring vampirism back to Torrezon.
Also on the age thing on Ravnica: I haven't read the old Ravnoca books but I thpught the age thing had to do with the "scab" thing that blocked planeswalking and held spirits from passing or something. Its gone now so I think they live normal human lifespans now.
Where's Jay when you need him.
If you want to go that route you could say that America getting involved in World War 1 caused the Holocaust because America getting involved led to Germany losing which led to war reparations which allowed the Nazis to rise to power which led to the Holocaust.
It appears that Ixalan would be better off without Azor, but he did have 10,000 years of peace and prosperity on Ravnica and if Ugin had held up his end they would have trapped Nicol Bolas.
Like I said, I wouldn’t have a problem with Vraska killing Azor as a black assassin out for revenge. However, Jace as a super smart mind mage and living guildpact should be able to find a use for Azor and could punish him win community service that involves Azor obeying Vraska as captain, Azor joining the Gatewatch, Azor becoming the living guildpact, etc.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
The Simic were pretty much completely destroyed in the events of Dissension. The new version of the Simic had just recently been established in Return to Ravnica, meaning that there was no Simic guild at all for decades.[...]
Wait what? How much time passed between Dissension and Return to Ravnica?
60-100 or so years. Its been ~60 years since the mending and the current story and Dissension was pre-mending. In the text they mention its been a generation since the guilds fell and rose. Ravnicans are very long living which why most of the characters are still alive and a generation to them is longer then we'd think it is a well.
EDIT:
Closer to 60-80 years, I forgot Tesya mentions her age in "Family Values" as 112 and I don't think she was much younger then her 20's in the original books.
Correction: Humans in Ravnica have a similiar lifespan to IRL humans, Teysa was able to live that long because of her bloodline, her ancestors like many in the Orzhov guild have tried to achieve immortality, because of that their offspring usually are born "mutated" for instance teysa is an 112 years old woman who looks like she is in her early thirty's, but was also born with an deficiency on her right leg, side effect such as Teysa's legs are normal within the more powerful Orzhov families.
Your somewhat right, Orzhov families are longer living then the average Ravnican but Ravnicans compared to us have have a much longer lifespan as well as why Tesya is looking Liliana good at 112.
Like I said, I wouldn’t have a problem with Vraska killing Azor as a black assassin out for revenge. However, Jace as a super smart mind mage and living guildpact should be able to find a use for Azor and could punish him win community service that involves Azor obeying Vraska as captain, Azor joining the Gatewatch, Azor becoming the living guildpact, etc.
Azor is not a planeswalker, he couldn't be the guildpact or join the gatewatch and Jace basically downloaded all info he needed when he mind read Azor about Bolas.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Like I said, I wouldn’t have a problem with Vraska killing Azor as a black assassin out for revenge. However, Jace as a super smart mind mage and living guildpact should be able to find a use for Azor and could punish him win community service that involves Azor obeying Vraska as captain, Azor joining the Gatewatch, Azor becoming the living guildpact, etc.
Azor is not a planeswalker anymore, he couldn't be the guildpact or join the gatewatch and Jace basically downloaded all info he needed when he mind read Azor about Bolas.
Like I said, I wouldn’t have a problem with Vraska killing Azor as a black assassin out for revenge. However, Jace as a super smart mind mage and living guildpact should be able to find a use for Azor and could punish him win community service that involves Azor obeying Vraska as captain, Azor joining the Gatewatch, Azor becoming the living guildpact, etc.
Azor is not a planeswalker anymore, he couldn't be the guildpact or join the gatewatch and Jace basically downloaded all info he needed when he mind read Azor about Bolas.
Fixed that for you, just in case.
Shouldn't it be "Currently"? It seems most people here are assuming he will get his spark back, I don't because I think if that was their goal they would have done it already and had him have a planeswalker card in the set.
Either way, for an exceptionally powerful plane bound entity that you have no intention of keeping watch on and don't want to kill because 'morals'; banishment is the smartest course of action. Sure there are other uses but when his crime is 'meddling in other's affairs' it would be fairly stupid to make the punishment be 'continue meddling'.
One thing that has always really, really bothered me about Ravnica is the impossible and simplistic notion that ten guilds could last largely unchanged, and in a constant balance of power, ten thousand years. (Tarkir has a similar problem)
Ten competing guilds, established with specific names, identities, cultures, and goals, remain more or less intact for ten thousand years. Not one of them splintered, not one of them fell apart, not one of them was replaced or subsumed or conquered, not one of them struck off to forge a new identity for itself or underwent significant revolution. Either Azor is an unparalleled genius, or the plane was designed with little appreciation for how history or societies really work. This is fantasy, I know. But it's a trope that still bugs the hell out of me. For comparison:
- The Mongol Empire lasted three generations, then splintered apart and collapsed.
- The Roman Empire lasted intact from 27 BC to 395 AD, just over 400 years. The Western Empire fell a century later.
- The British Empire lasted just over 400 years.
- Writing has only existed for about 5,000 years.
- The wheel was invented between 7,000 and 8,000 years ago.
- The agricultural revolution occurred about 12,000 years ago.
Counterpoint: its not a problem in this particular instance because it was explicitly maintained through magic designed specifically to maintain the system mostly as is.
Many changes still occurred. Ravnica was a regular fantasy setting pre Guildpact, and only became a plane spanning city scape as a side effect of the Guildpact both ensuring overall peace and giving each guild except for the Dimir something constructive to do. Some guilds radically changed their structure. the Gruul became scattered clans fighting against the city only after the city eliminated the natural areas, and the simic became mad scientists for the same reason, as the only way for them to fulfill their role of helping natural life grow and thrive was to modify it to fit the city. The Golgari changed from a Necromancers private army, to a guild of outcasts led by monsters, to a guild of outcasts led by elves. Those are only the changes that are explicitly mentioned or shown.
Overall, however, the basic structure of ten guilds was maintained because the Guildpact would intervene to prevent any guild from becoming weak enough to collapse or strong enough to dominate the system. Thats it.
Maybe the Guildpact should also have included a clause or two about not covering the entire surface of the plane in city so that the Gruul and Simic (and Selesnya, I guess?) guilds didn't become as warped as they did.
All the guilds adapted to the city, but some changed more than others. They were originally each separate nations based on their color pairs and general philosophy. They became guilds within a larger, single nation with the signing of the Guildpact. Azor didn't care about them staying exactly the same, only that they served the same purpose, stayed the same colors, and continued to exist.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
The Rivals of Ixalan Story has just lengthened. We're getting 6 chapters now, not 5.
That's much better, I think, and will give this world and its native peoples more room to breathe. Jace and Vraska have maybe one story worth of material left, and frankly, as well-written as they are, their story could have taken place on practically any plane. I much prefer material on the inhabitants of the plane and their factional struggles. Hopefully this extra fiction allows us more focus on the four tribes.
I don't like Azor but i have to agree with him, his system's are not the problem, the problem is how people use them, though i would like to point out that there is no reasonable reason for guilds such as Dimir, Gruul and Selesnya be allowed to exist.
Also it seems that Nicol Bolas killing Ugin was extremely bad for the multiverse, it caused an endless war between the clans of Tarkir since there were no dragons to keep them in check, when Sorin discovered that Ugin was dead he decided to flee to Innistrad which left Zendikar without protection which in turn caused Nahiri in her ignorance to turn Zendikar into one of Lovrcraft stories, without Ugin Azor was unable to seal Bolas, which in turn caused the destruction of Amonkhe.
So why don't we stop talking about how bad Azor is and accept the fact that all of this is Ugin and Bolas fault not Azor's?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
BWG
Art student, EDH lover and a strong believer that Delver has the best design in all of MTG.
The Simic were pretty much completely destroyed in the events of Dissension. The new version of the Simic had just recently been established in Return to Ravnica, meaning that there was no Simic guild at all for decades.[...]
Wait what? How much time passed between Dissension and Return to Ravnica?
60-100 or so years. Its been ~60 years since the mending and the current story and Dissension was pre-mending. In the text they mention its been a generation since the guilds fell and rose. Ravnicans are very long living which why most of the characters are still alive and a generation to them is longer then we'd think it is a well.
EDIT:
Closer to 60-80 years, I forgot Tesya mentions her age in "Family Values" as 112 and I don't think she was much younger then her 20's in the original books.
Correction: Humans in Ravnica have a similiar lifespan to IRL humans, Teysa was able to live that long because of her bloodline, her ancestors like many in the Orzhov guild have tried to achieve immortality, because of that their offspring usually are born "mutated" for instance teysa is an 112 years old woman who looks like she is in her early thirty's, but was also born with an deficiency on her right leg, side effect such as Teysa's legs are normal within the more powerful Orzhov families.
Your somewhat right, Orzhov families are longer living then the average Ravnican but Ravnicans compared to us have have a much longer lifespan as well as why Tesya is looking Liliana good at 112.
To expand on this a bit, Agrus Kos, who was Boros not Orzhov, was 122 when he died which was about "retirement age." So Teysa still being fairly youngish looking at 112 (just 10 years younger than Kos' "I'm-too-old-for-this-ness") is the difference. Teysa being Orzhov extends her lifespan (or at least her youthfulness) beyond that of the typical Ravnican, but indications seem that Ravnican humans as a whole are longer lived than other humans across the multiverse.
And some SORELY asked questions are answered. Namely Bolas's endgame with his "nefarious puzzle". Not that everything was NOT pointing in that direction.
Also, Jace + Vraska might still happed, as we expected from Induced Amnesia functionality.
That said, Ravnica III is unavoidable now.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
100% Vorthos Spike and Storyline Expert
Former Fact Prospector of the Greek Alliance.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
-We see Ugin and Azor plan to trap Bolas only for Bolas to find out about Azor and while "investigating" Azor he finds out Ugin and Azor are teaming up to stop him, Azor doing the plans in directly by being so vain.
-The Sun gives the user a power booster similar to old walkers.
-The battle on Tarkir was Bolas stopping Azor and Ugin locking those events together.
-Poor Azor, I disagree with what he did but he must have felt so betrayed after Ugin was *killed*.
-Those who think Bolas wants to invade Ravnica you are indeed right.
-Most of where right Vraska plans on being a sleeper agent, thinking it best to first get whatever power Bolas might give her as some form of weapon against him.
-Ohhhhh I like this aspect of Vraska spelled out more, her goals always involve surivial a very black/green idea.
-Bolas won't be looking for a new Jace-power level telepath, which how Jace is sure he can keep her memories hidden.
-Jace is planning to get Niv help....this surely won't end badly.
-No oath for Vraska but a promise, a pact is made for Vraska to become a sleeper agent. and a date for when Vraska gets her memories back...T-T
-And now Bolas has the Sun and walkers are able to leave Ixalan for the first time in ~1,280 years.
-Looks like the next two stories will focus on the Huatli/Angrath/legends/factions storyline, with Vraska gone and Jace really not having any reason to stay on Ixalan with time being of the essence. Oh and Jace out rights says they are meeting on Dominaria which we all knew.
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
This story gets the job done. i was hoping for a bit more sappiness in Jace and Vraska's final moments, but at the very least there is still hope that the 'ship can be relaunched after gatewatch vs. Bolas, Round 2.
Jace's upcoming appearance on Dominaria is now confirmed. along with Karn, Jaya and Ajani and probably Lili, that gives us 5 walkers we can expect to see there.
and with Jace and Vraska hatching their plan, the chess match against Grandmaster Bolas continues.
Also, Azor's opinion upon meeting Ugin isn't very rosy. calling him a friend seemed a bit tongue in cheek. Wondering if most MTG Vorthoses looking at Ugin as the "good" answer to Bolas might be a bit skewed?
the big question this brings up is whether Ugin tried to contact Azor in any way after his resurrection. (i guess the obvious answer is no). Ugin's first concern were Nahiri and the Eldrazi when he awoke. Why wouldn't he be as concerned with his now stranded ally and their plan to subdue THE GUY THAT JUST BEAT HIM WITHIN AN INCH OF HIS LIFE?
That's exactly what Tamiyo was trying to do before she wavered on Innistrad.
Considering the damage planeswalkers have often done to planes despite their intentions, it's not hard to see why someone would prefer taking the "Prime Directive" approach if they're aware of this.
I was the one who brought that up, but honestly I haven't bothered to check it since (I've already accepted that the Sun Empire will win). I dunno if I'd call it fixed exactly, I mean if they were rigging the race why draw attention to it by removing miles from factions instead of simply adding more miles to the "winner?" I would call it half-assed and inaccurate, though.
The Simic were pretty much completely destroyed in the events of Dissension. The new version of the Simic had just recently been established in Return to Ravnica, meaning that there was no Simic guild at all for decades. Also, the new version of the guild is the same as the old in name only: the original Simic were run by elves and vedalken, and their creations often looked completely alien and were based on cytoplasts. The new Simic consist primarily of merfolk with only a handful of elves, and their creations are actual hybrids of existing animals, most often at least partially aquatic. Additionally, the old Simic used green means to exclusively blue ends, trying to improve nature as much as possible with no concern for the natural order, while the new Simic embody both philosophies by trying to balance nature with progress. Some of the other guilds have changed over time as well, but the Simic is the only one that clearly fell apart and was reborn as an almost completely different entity.
That being said, your point still stands: 10,000 years of stagnation is a lot and is pretty difficult to believe. Tarkir at least has a gap of only 1280 years, but while the lack of technological advancements could be explained away by the constant warfare, you would think that one or more clans would have been completely destroyed or at least splintered into multiple factions. In Khans of Tarkir they mentioned that originally one empire had ruled Tarkir that eventually became the Sultai, but in Fate Reforged we go back centuries and there's still five completely separate clans with no mention of the war starting recently. As others have said, they could easily avoid this by not choosing unnecessarily large numbers to try to make things seem impressive. Things change over time. You can pick a number of years that is relatively large but not completely unbelievable.
60-100 or so years. Its been ~60 years since the mending and the current story and Dissension was pre-mending. In the text they mention its been a generation since the guilds fell and rose. Ravnicans are very long living which why most of the characters are still alive and a generation to them is longer then we'd think it is a well.
EDIT:
Closer to 60-80 years, I forgot Tesya mentions her age in "Family Values" as 112 and I don't think she was much younger then her 20's in the original books.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
To this day, the sudden appearance of Merfolk in Ravnica after more than 10 thousand years still bothers me a lot.
Correction: Humans in Ravnica have a similiar lifespan to IRL humans, Teysa was able to live that long because of her bloodline, her ancestors like many in the Orzhov guild have tried to achieve immortality, because of that their offspring usually are born "mutated" for instance teysa is an 112 years old woman who looks like she is in her early thirty's, but was also born with an deficiency on her right leg, side effect such as Teysa's legs are normal within the more powerful Orzhov families.
Art student, EDH lover and a strong believer that Delver has the best design in all of MTG.
If I'm not mistaken, all Ravnica humans have a larger lifespan... Wasn't Agros Kos really old on the old Ravnica Novels?
They never said or even seemed to try to imply that Azor is "evil". The story was trying to portray him as someone with good intentions, but went about it poorly and never made the effort to stick around and ensure that his created governments didn't lose their way.
If you thought that the story was making Azor out to be evil, then what does that say about the other oldwalkers in Magic history?
Also, Jace didn't "interfere" on Zendikar intentionally. He chased after Chandra and ended up confronting her and Sarkhan in the Eye of Ugin simultaneously. At the time, they had no idea what was inside that thing. He admitted he ****ed up when he realized what he had done, and when he did intentionally intervene in Zendikar, he helped save the plane. So, Zendikar is a poor example.
Ravnica is more muddled, because he did interfere in the race to Maze's End, but consider the possible implications if he didn't do it. What if Ral had won, especially now knowing the guy is an agent of Bolas? What if Exava had won?
As for Vraska, it's true that she doesn't really have the moral high ground because she's still an assassin, but considering her history with the guild Azor founded and her "defender of the downtrodden" ideals, are we really surprised that she would take this stance against him? Also, she's not wrong about Azor's impact on Ixalan.
But he was. Creation of vampires is a direct consequence of creating the Sun.
All in all, this last story could be nice, if it wasn't written so hasty (which was I suppose necessary, considering only two chapters now remains). One or two pages longer, more nuance in the style, and it could be of the same quality as the rest of Ixalan story.
Off topic, about "Azor is evil": do you know what would be cool? If Azor cooperates with Bolas instead, and creates the Sun as a prison for all other planeswalkers. For him, it could very well be reasoned as a noble quest of cleansing the Multiverse from the unstability and unpredictability of planeswalkers. You know, after they will be all locked down and eliminated, the Multiverse will be stable again. And Bolas would happily agree with that. The ultimate ending of him as the only planeswalker alone would be just a bonus
Heck, they could also use "Project Lightning Bug" as a planeswalkers' tracking device Multiverse-wide (maybe even to those with dormant spark yet).
I too remember Agrus Kos being around a century or more old.
That's not what he meant. He means that the creation and gifting of the Sun led Elenda to chase after it and subsequently bring vampirism back to Torrezon.
Also on the age thing on Ravnica: I haven't read the old Ravnoca books but I thpught the age thing had to do with the "scab" thing that blocked planeswalking and held spirits from passing or something. Its gone now so I think they live normal human lifespans now.
Where's Jay when you need him.
If you want to go that route you could say that America getting involved in World War 1 caused the Holocaust because America getting involved led to Germany losing which led to war reparations which allowed the Nazis to rise to power which led to the Holocaust.
It appears that Ixalan would be better off without Azor, but he did have 10,000 years of peace and prosperity on Ravnica and if Ugin had held up his end they would have trapped Nicol Bolas.
Like I said, I wouldn’t have a problem with Vraska killing Azor as a black assassin out for revenge. However, Jace as a super smart mind mage and living guildpact should be able to find a use for Azor and could punish him win community service that involves Azor obeying Vraska as captain, Azor joining the Gatewatch, Azor becoming the living guildpact, etc.
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
Your somewhat right, Orzhov families are longer living then the average Ravnican but Ravnicans compared to us have have a much longer lifespan as well as why Tesya is looking Liliana good at 112.
Azor is not a planeswalker, he couldn't be the guildpact or join the gatewatch and Jace basically downloaded all info he needed when he mind read Azor about Bolas.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Fixed that for you, just in case.
Either way, for an exceptionally powerful plane bound entity that you have no intention of keeping watch on and don't want to kill because 'morals'; banishment is the smartest course of action. Sure there are other uses but when his crime is 'meddling in other's affairs' it would be fairly stupid to make the punishment be 'continue meddling'.
All the guilds adapted to the city, but some changed more than others. They were originally each separate nations based on their color pairs and general philosophy. They became guilds within a larger, single nation with the signing of the Guildpact. Azor didn't care about them staying exactly the same, only that they served the same purpose, stayed the same colors, and continued to exist.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
That's much better, I think, and will give this world and its native peoples more room to breathe. Jace and Vraska have maybe one story worth of material left, and frankly, as well-written as they are, their story could have taken place on practically any plane. I much prefer material on the inhabitants of the plane and their factional struggles. Hopefully this extra fiction allows us more focus on the four tribes.
Also it seems that Nicol Bolas killing Ugin was extremely bad for the multiverse, it caused an endless war between the clans of Tarkir since there were no dragons to keep them in check, when Sorin discovered that Ugin was dead he decided to flee to Innistrad which left Zendikar without protection which in turn caused Nahiri in her ignorance to turn Zendikar into one of Lovrcraft stories, without Ugin Azor was unable to seal Bolas, which in turn caused the destruction of Amonkhe.
So why don't we stop talking about how bad Azor is and accept the fact that all of this is Ugin and Bolas fault not Azor's?
Art student, EDH lover and a strong believer that Delver has the best design in all of MTG.
To expand on this a bit, Agrus Kos, who was Boros not Orzhov, was 122 when he died which was about "retirement age." So Teysa still being fairly youngish looking at 112 (just 10 years younger than Kos' "I'm-too-old-for-this-ness") is the difference. Teysa being Orzhov extends her lifespan (or at least her youthfulness) beyond that of the typical Ravnican, but indications seem that Ravnican humans as a whole are longer lived than other humans across the multiverse.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-story/sabotage-2018-01-31
Modern:R 8Whack R|W White Knights W
It is online.
And some SORELY asked questions are answered. Namely Bolas's endgame with his "nefarious puzzle". Not that everything was NOT pointing in that direction.
Also, Jace + Vraska might still happed, as we expected from Induced Amnesia functionality.
That said, Ravnica III is unavoidable now.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
-The Sun gives the user a power booster similar to old walkers.
-The battle on Tarkir was Bolas stopping Azor and Ugin locking those events together.
-Poor Azor, I disagree with what he did but he must have felt so betrayed after Ugin was *killed*.
-Those who think Bolas wants to invade Ravnica you are indeed right.
-Most of where right Vraska plans on being a sleeper agent, thinking it best to first get whatever power Bolas might give her as some form of weapon against him.
-Ohhhhh I like this aspect of Vraska spelled out more, her goals always involve surivial a very black/green idea.
-Bolas won't be looking for a new Jace-power level telepath, which how Jace is sure he can keep her memories hidden.
-Jace is planning to get Niv help....this surely won't end badly.
-No oath for Vraska but a promise, a pact is made for Vraska to become a sleeper agent. and a date for when Vraska gets her memories back...T-T
-And now Bolas has the Sun and walkers are able to leave Ixalan for the first time in ~1,280 years.
-Looks like the next two stories will focus on the Huatli/Angrath/legends/factions storyline, with Vraska gone and Jace really not having any reason to stay on Ixalan with time being of the essence. Oh and Jace out rights says they are meeting on Dominaria which we all knew.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Jace's upcoming appearance on Dominaria is now confirmed. along with Karn, Jaya and Ajani and probably Lili, that gives us 5 walkers we can expect to see there.
and with Jace and Vraska hatching their plan, the chess match against Grandmaster Bolas continues.
Also, Azor's opinion upon meeting Ugin isn't very rosy. calling him a friend seemed a bit tongue in cheek. Wondering if most MTG Vorthoses looking at Ugin as the "good" answer to Bolas might be a bit skewed?
the big question this brings up is whether Ugin tried to contact Azor in any way after his resurrection. (i guess the obvious answer is no). Ugin's first concern were Nahiri and the Eldrazi when he awoke. Why wouldn't he be as concerned with his now stranded ally and their plan to subdue THE GUY THAT JUST BEAT HIM WITHIN AN INCH OF HIS LIFE?
Click the pic for more info.
I loaded it, saw "Around 1,300 Years Ago", and was already pretty happy