I only hope the next set has more story beats involving dinosaurs. I know that's tough, since they're not sentient beings but I hope at least Gishath gets more than a Lorthos showing.
Don't get me wrong. I can see he's a violent minotaur and might have committed plenty of murders out of frustration of being trapped in Ixalan. However, his latest interaction with Huatli gives me the impression that he's just an immature brat who discovered his planeswalking gift too early in his life (I would be absolutely delighted if he were revealed to be just a teen), and his rampage in Ixalan is like a superpowered teenager who's lashing out at being grounded. And since he gives off the vibe of an immature brat, I'm suspecting that he has been traveling a lot as a planeswalker, and thus extremely unhappy when Ixalan stops him from traversing anywhere further.
I've been thinking a similar thing, to me Angrath doesn't seem like "evil" but like you said throwing a temper tantrum. I don't see him joining the gatewatch but I can see him being a chaotic force that can be a friend or foe depending on how much you're getting in their way.
Building off this idea: What if Angrath isn't his name at all? If we like the idea of him being a petulant teenager who's been 'grounded' by the plane he's on, perhaps he took the name 'Angrath' because he thought it would make him sound more dangerous? That is the kind of thing a teenager would do.
I just feel like we arrived at Orazca's doorstep in a blink. Seems a bit silly for a city fatally sought after for centuries. Compass or not.
I think this is a matter of pacing. It's been weeks, possibly even months since Jace joined up with Vraska, but most of that has happened off-camera (so to speak) so it really has seemed way too fast. Adding to it is that it's been what? A day or two since the shipwreck? How far could they possibly have traveled inland? Looking at the map I'm having a hard time figuring out where the ship wreck could have happened that's close enough to just WALK to Orazca in a day. Admittedly there's no legend or scale to the map, but it can't be THAT small or the idea of not being able to find Orazca looses plausibility, magic or no magic.
The pacing is really wonky. The Race really should have been a 4 parter, with Parts 1 and 2 focusing on the individual tribes pursuing and Parts 3 and 4 examining how they clash as they draw nearer to each other.
Using the geography provided in the stories themselves, the shipwreck point is due east from the Primal Wellspring. Jace and Vraska have been on the seas for weeks, so we can gather that it's no small continent. Yeah, it's physically impossible that anyone could have made it from the coast to Orazca in such a short time. We have little choice but to assume that the author was mistaken in reporting these events, and that it actually took much longer.
Also, here's a bit from my post over on the Story Critique thread:
Ixalan is a huge continent; what are the odds that all the major Orazca-seekers from each faction would come to the exact same starting point, on the exact same day, so that they can all race each other to Orazca at the same time? The moment Huatli showed up on the beach, my jaw dropped—not at the development itself, but at the storyteller’s sheer audacity. And then even Angrath found his way into the mix, appearing out of who knows where. As much as I like him as a character, the pure coincidence of it all raised far more disbelief than I was willing to suspend.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I'd rather die speaking the truth than live a lie." --Gix, to Yawgmoth (pre-Phyrexia)
Well possible but not necessary enough proof if she did or not.
But I'm going with yes due to pounce being the art of that moment of the story (atleast I think this is the picture of that part of the story.)
I really hopes she's not. She should get revenge on Huatli. I mean now not only is Huatli boring as hell she's also a hypocrite. Saying we don't kill but then calling dinosaurs and telling them to eat her is like Dick Dastardly saying well I didn't kill her the train did. I just tied her to the train tracks. We could have done without Huatli as a walker and had the empire have a plane bound rep like the rest.
Well possible but not necessary enough proof if she did or not.
But I'm going with yes due to pounce being the art of that moment of the story (atleast I think this is the picture of that part of the story.)
The Sun warrior's headress is wrong for Huatli, she also didn't stick around for the carnivore to get there (and really shouldn't her own MOUNT be a carnivore?) and there's a horse in the art. We know Vona didn't have a horse.
I'm going to assume she's still alive until confirmed otherwise, because that's generally how this trope/literary cliche/whatever works out.
Well possible but not necessary enough proof if she did or not.
But I'm going with yes due to pounce being the art of that moment of the story (atleast I think this is the picture of that part of the story.)
I really hopes she's not. She should get revenge on Huatli. I mean now not only is Huatli boring as hell she's also a hypocrite. Saying we don't kill but then calling dinosaurs and telling them to eat her is like Dick Dastardly saying well I didn't kill her the train did. I just tied her to the train tracks. We could have done without Huatli as a walker and had the empire have a plane bound rep like the rest.
I'm not entirely sure that refusing to kill, but then letting dinosaurs do it for you, is a sign of hypocrisy per se. Huatli says in her internal monologue that the greatest warriors of the Sun Empire don't kill, but she never says why. Our natural assumption is that this is due to the idea that killing is morally wrong, as most of us share that view. However, there are examples of warrior peoples in fantasy that view killing as a less complete or elegant way of defeating an enemy. The Wheel of Time's Aiel, for instance, prefer capturing an enemy to killing him, and simply touching an armed enemy to capturing him, as signs of greater martial prowess. Depending on Huatli's reasons for refusing to kill, her actions may not be particularly hypocritical.
Well possible but not necessary enough proof if she did or not.
But I'm going with yes due to pounce being the art of that moment of the story (atleast I think this is the picture of that part of the story.)
I really hopes she's not. She should get revenge on Huatli. I mean now not only is Huatli boring as hell she's also a hypocrite. Saying we don't kill but then calling dinosaurs and telling them to eat her is like Dick Dastardly saying well I didn't kill her the train did. I just tied her to the train tracks. We could have done without Huatli as a walker and had the empire have a plane bound rep like the rest.
I'm not entirely sure that refusing to kill, but then letting dinosaurs do it for you, is a sign of hypocrisy per se. Huatli says in her internal monologue that the greatest warriors of the Sun Empire don't kill, but she never says why. Our natural assumption is that this is due to the idea that killing is morally wrong, as most of us share that view. However, there are examples of warrior peoples in fantasy that view killing as a less complete or elegant way of defeating an enemy. The Wheel of Time's Aiel, for instance, prefer capturing an enemy to killing him, and simply touching an armed enemy to capturing him, as signs of greater martial prowess. Depending on Huatli's reasons for refusing to kill, her actions may not be particularly hypocritical.
The player guide suggest the view point is closer to the Aiel, it show more material skills to had to (personally) kill anyone. And yes it hypocrisy, the kind that shows the white sides to Huatli and the Empire Sun. Just as the vampires claim they are morally right only drinking the blood of the guilty the sun empire believes they are morally right if they only kill via dinosaur.
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
That doesn't make sense in terms of vampires though, if you capture a vampire..all you end up with is a Super Strong Psycho Killer, unless you start killing other people to feed them.
I'm not entirely sure that refusing to kill, but then letting dinosaurs do it for you, is a sign of hypocrisy per se. Huatli says in her internal monologue that the greatest warriors of the Sun Empire don't kill, but she never says why. Our natural assumption is that this is due to the idea that killing is morally wrong, as most of us share that view. However, there are examples of warrior peoples in fantasy that view killing as a less complete or elegant way of defeating an enemy. The Wheel of Time's Aiel, for instance, prefer capturing an enemy to killing him, and simply touching an armed enemy to capturing him, as signs of greater martial prowess. Depending on Huatli's reasons for refusing to kill, her actions may not be particularly hypocritical.
What reason? Like, besides "I'm not one of the best so I can kill", or "The dinos won't eat things that they don't kill" what reason could justify saying "I don't kill" then using your own magic to call some dinos and command them to "Feast"? I mean sure she didn't deal the killing blow with her own hands but she was still responsible.
I don't think it's a morality thing. If you're engaged in a close fight with someone who is your equal you may have to kill them. However, if you're a superior fighter you can disable someone and have a dinosaur kill them.
It could also be a good way to reward/strengthen a bond with the dinosaurs, similar to giving a dog a treat when a dog obeys commands. Maybe dinosaurs like being rewarded with kills.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
I think the knights prefer the show-off way of dealing with problems, not the "lesser evil" way. Bashing someone's cranium in is primitive, brutal, and gets your feathers dirty. Walking away from enemy that's surrounded by flock of raptors gives you style and creativity points.
So I wonder what Jace will do now that he's apparently getting his memories back? If he remembers Bolas, will he eventually learn that "Lord Nicolas" is Bolas? If he does, will he try to stop Vraska, since a powerful artifact like the Immortal Sun can't lead to anything good in Bolas's possession?
Also I find Angrath's persistent attempt to get Huatli on his side strangely adorable.
So I wonder what Jace will do now that he's apparently getting his memories back? If he remembers Bolas, will he eventually learn that "Lord Nicolas" is Bolas? If he does, will he try to stop Vraska, since a powerful artifact like the Immortal Sun can't lead to anything good in Bolas's possession?
Also I find Angrath's persistent attempt to get Huatli on his side strangely adorable.
"It is just Me and you Hualti, people will try and separate us but so long as we are together we can do anything, 100 years of Angrath of Hualti." and so on.
So I wonder what Jace will do now that he's apparently getting his memories back? If he remembers Bolas, will he eventually learn that "Lord Nicolas" is Bolas? If he does, will he try to stop Vraska, since a powerful artifact like the Immortal Sun can't lead to anything good in Bolas's possession?
Also I find Angrath's persistent attempt to get Huatli on his side strangely adorable.
"It is just Me and you Hualti, people will try and separate us but so long as we are together we can do anything, 100 years of Angrath of Hualti." and so on.
I imagine that in some fanfic somewhere, when (not if) Huatli fails to secure the Sun because Lord Nicolas had his agent fetch it for his grand scheme that we still know little about, she might not get the Warrior-Poet title and would just say "**** this" and have Angrath show her the ropes of being a Planeswalker since he's the only one she's met up to this point who's been letting her in on the walker stuff.
I'm not even entirely joking either, since she seems to have a limit to her patience where the Warrior-Poet thing is concerned.
I'm not entirely sure that refusing to kill, but then letting dinosaurs do it for you, is a sign of hypocrisy per se. Huatli says in her internal monologue that the greatest warriors of the Sun Empire don't kill, but she never says why. Our natural assumption is that this is due to the idea that killing is morally wrong, as most of us share that view. However, there are examples of warrior peoples in fantasy that view killing as a less complete or elegant way of defeating an enemy. The Wheel of Time's Aiel, for instance, prefer capturing an enemy to killing him, and simply touching an armed enemy to capturing him, as signs of greater martial prowess. Depending on Huatli's reasons for refusing to kill, her actions may not be particularly hypocritical.
What reason? Like, besides "I'm not one of the best so I can kill", or "The dinos won't eat things that they don't kill" what reason could justify saying "I don't kill" then using your own magic to call some dinos and command them to "Feast"? I mean sure she didn't deal the killing blow with her own hands but she was still responsible.
Try "I'm too good a warrior to dirty my hands killing you myself. You are beneath me." It's not an assertion of moral superiority, but of superior prowess.
That would make her Infinitely more interesting than what we will actually get.
Maybe I'm reading too much into her, but Huatli seems to be a bit dark in the latest story. What would she have done with the Dinos if Jace didn't cough up the truth about the compass? Also dat loophole with the raptor attacking Vona.
Depends on what you mean by dark, a reasonable person would consider. "Doesn't kill but lets her Dinos eat someone that they crippled." is dark, of course being that she is on the "right" side nobody will call Her out on that BS and act like she is super white knight.
Depends on what you mean by dark, a reasonable person would consider. "Doesn't kill but lets her Dinos eat someone that they crippled." is dark, of course being that she is on the "right" side nobody will call Her out on that BS and act like she is super white knight.
Well beyond that, while I don't necessarily like how he's getting them back here, I'm hoping Jace gets all his memories back, including the Vryn ones. He caught glimpses of Alhammaret after he lobotomized him, so they're definitely still there, and getting them back could change him in ways we can't even predict.
Eh if Jace getting his memories back in the dumbest way possible is the worst thing we can say, this will be the greatest block story line they have had since Origins by a mile and a half.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Building off this idea: What if Angrath isn't his name at all? If we like the idea of him being a petulant teenager who's been 'grounded' by the plane he's on, perhaps he took the name 'Angrath' because he thought it would make him sound more dangerous? That is the kind of thing a teenager would do.
I think this is a matter of pacing. It's been weeks, possibly even months since Jace joined up with Vraska, but most of that has happened off-camera (so to speak) so it really has seemed way too fast. Adding to it is that it's been what? A day or two since the shipwreck? How far could they possibly have traveled inland? Looking at the map I'm having a hard time figuring out where the ship wreck could have happened that's close enough to just WALK to Orazca in a day. Admittedly there's no legend or scale to the map, but it can't be THAT small or the idea of not being able to find Orazca looses plausibility, magic or no magic.
Using the geography provided in the stories themselves, the shipwreck point is due east from the Primal Wellspring. Jace and Vraska have been on the seas for weeks, so we can gather that it's no small continent. Yeah, it's physically impossible that anyone could have made it from the coast to Orazca in such a short time. We have little choice but to assume that the author was mistaken in reporting these events, and that it actually took much longer.
Also, here's a bit from my post over on the Story Critique thread:
Well possible but not necessary enough proof if she did or not.
But I'm going with yes due to pounce being the art of that moment of the story (atleast I think this is the picture of that part of the story.)
I really hopes she's not. She should get revenge on Huatli. I mean now not only is Huatli boring as hell she's also a hypocrite. Saying we don't kill but then calling dinosaurs and telling them to eat her is like Dick Dastardly saying well I didn't kill her the train did. I just tied her to the train tracks. We could have done without Huatli as a walker and had the empire have a plane bound rep like the rest.
The Sun warrior's headress is wrong for Huatli, she also didn't stick around for the carnivore to get there (and really shouldn't her own MOUNT be a carnivore?) and there's a horse in the art. We know Vona didn't have a horse.
I'm going to assume she's still alive until confirmed otherwise, because that's generally how this trope/literary cliche/whatever works out.
I'm not entirely sure that refusing to kill, but then letting dinosaurs do it for you, is a sign of hypocrisy per se. Huatli says in her internal monologue that the greatest warriors of the Sun Empire don't kill, but she never says why. Our natural assumption is that this is due to the idea that killing is morally wrong, as most of us share that view. However, there are examples of warrior peoples in fantasy that view killing as a less complete or elegant way of defeating an enemy. The Wheel of Time's Aiel, for instance, prefer capturing an enemy to killing him, and simply touching an armed enemy to capturing him, as signs of greater martial prowess. Depending on Huatli's reasons for refusing to kill, her actions may not be particularly hypocritical.
RWU
GUB
WBR
URG
BGW
The player guide suggest the view point is closer to the Aiel, it show more material skills to had to (personally) kill anyone. And yes it hypocrisy, the kind that shows the white sides to Huatli and the Empire Sun. Just as the vampires claim they are morally right only drinking the blood of the guilty the sun empire believes they are morally right if they only kill via dinosaur.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
What reason? Like, besides "I'm not one of the best so I can kill", or "The dinos won't eat things that they don't kill" what reason could justify saying "I don't kill" then using your own magic to call some dinos and command them to "Feast"? I mean sure she didn't deal the killing blow with her own hands but she was still responsible.
It could also be a good way to reward/strengthen a bond with the dinosaurs, similar to giving a dog a treat when a dog obeys commands. Maybe dinosaurs like being rewarded with kills.
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
Also I find Angrath's persistent attempt to get Huatli on his side strangely adorable.
"It is just Me and you Hualti, people will try and separate us but so long as we are together we can do anything, 100 years of Angrath of Hualti." and so on.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
I imagine that in some fanfic somewhere, when (not if) Huatli fails to secure the Sun because Lord Nicolas had his agent fetch it for his grand scheme that we still know little about, she might not get the Warrior-Poet title and would just say "**** this" and have Angrath show her the ropes of being a Planeswalker since he's the only one she's met up to this point who's been letting her in on the walker stuff.
I'm not even entirely joking either, since she seems to have a limit to her patience where the Warrior-Poet thing is concerned.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
Try "I'm too good a warrior to dirty my hands killing you myself. You are beneath me." It's not an assertion of moral superiority, but of superior prowess.
RWU
GUB
WBR
URG
BGW
Maybe I'm reading too much into her, but Huatli seems to be a bit dark in the latest story. What would she have done with the Dinos if Jace didn't cough up the truth about the compass? Also dat loophole with the raptor attacking Vona.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
Well beyond that, while I don't necessarily like how he's getting them back here, I'm hoping Jace gets all his memories back, including the Vryn ones. He caught glimpses of Alhammaret after he lobotomized him, so they're definitely still there, and getting them back could change him in ways we can't even predict.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan