Honestly, between the podcast info, the artwork and the text above, UB Taigam really is a mess.
To be fair, his abilities are fine IMO, and if you ignored the art or didn't think about the bizarre details, he'd be satisfactory as Khans!Taigam. Unfortunately, ignoring the details is not what Vorthos typically do, which is why I wish they put in more effort with making sure the art is accurately depicting Sidisi's Hand. Of course, this Taigam no longer exists and Ojutai!Taigam is decent all around, so I guess it's moot.
This kind of makes me excited about a possible return to post-Conflux Alara, but at the same time it also makes me think they may intend to not return to it at all, since they're establishing all those characters that they would have to work into the narrative somehow (at least some of them would have to be mentioned). Could Alara have become the new Shandalar for now - a sort of "dumping ground" that's frequently used for random legends?
I'd say that the shards grant so much diversity to Alara that they could find quite a bit of material to work with in coming up with random legends. So yes, I do think they're using it as a "dumping ground". They haven't even fully tapped into the characters that were shown or implied in the Alara lore but never got cards, such as Eliza of the Keep (the young female necromancer on Grixis who challenged Sedris), Zaliki, Marisi, Asha, Cylia (the first elf in Naya with the "Anima" trait), any of the Asura that aren't Jenara, Mubin (Rafiq's friend who died in the Alara Unbroken novel) and Crucius.
Found this better Balan, Wandering Knight art by Svetlin Velinov. Up close, he doesn't look Therosi, although Kelly's tweetstorm confirms that.
As for Taigam... I think there was just a miscommunication or an error somewhere along the line. It happens from time to time, but it's MEANT to be Khans Taigam.
Found this better Balan, Wandering Knight art by Svetlin Velinov. Up close, he doesn't look Therosi, although Kelly's tweetstorm confirms that.
As for Taigam... I think there was just a miscommunication or an error somewhere along the line. It happens from time to time, but it's MEANT to be Khans Taigam.
Found this better Balan, Wandering Knight art by Svetlin Velinov. Up close, he doesn't look Therosi, although Kelly's tweetstorm confirms that.
As for Taigam... I think there was just a miscommunication or an error somewhere along the line. It happens from time to time, but it's MEANT to be Khans Taigam.
The blurbs about the random legends are so scarce and generic they're doomed to be randoms forever lol Glad I brought this issue to Maro's attention today despite being blown off and told to basically deal with it for the sake of Mel.
I don't have an issue with most of the blurbs. Balan's is meh, but Licia's helmet having the feathers of an angel she killed in it as a symbol of her might (seems it's in fashion for taking trinkets off angels you've murdered, if Liliana and Tazri are any indication), and Mathas being a vampire hunting his own kind are interesting details.
Kess looks pretty old up close. I don't know if it's age (and in that case, she's pretty strong or resourceful to have survived for that long), the stress of living in Grixis or the magic she uses taking its toll.
Khans!Taigam having the Silumgar symbol on his head instead of the Sultai symbol is even more obvious in that close-up image, and it's a shame they can't rectify it.
I think its more interesting that Mathas is a vampire hunter not for anything noble but just because he wants to be the blood sucking highlander. Lol
Shame on Licia for not caring for her sword better. She also needs to step her fashion up. Rem Karolus has a whole cloak of angel feather.
The bit about Edgar is a recon right? Originally he did what he did so his people could overcome a famine but now he's just a doting grandpa?
Is Alara just that easy of a world to make one off characters for? It seems like more than one commander every year comes from there.
I wish theyd be more willing to tell us from whence these characters come from. Even if its just a name. Speaking of. Were supposed to get a story for this release right? I guess that's probably next week?
Is Alara just that easy of a world to make one off characters for? It seems like more than one commander every year comes from there.
With Sundered Alara, each shard is a mini-world with a number of potential characters, and post-Conflux Alara is pretty rich in terms of the characters that can come about due to the shards overlapping with each other. There's also some potential for Old Alara, and we already have two named characters from that era without cards: Asha and Cylia.
I wish theyd be more willing to tell us from whence these characters come from. Even if its just a name.
I've said that already, and those who responded pointed out that there's the risk of retconning details about the planes later if they choose to use them for Standard-legal sets.
I wish theyd be more willing to tell us from whence these characters come from. Even if its just a name.
I think they learned their lesson with Arkhos and Mongseng.
It's not even about the worldbuilding details. The bigger problem is that they can't (or don't want to pay to) trademark those as-of-yet one-off planes. However, if they ever revisit them in an expert set, they do have to trademark them. It's too much effort (and money) for planes they don't even know they'll ever visit.
I wish theyd be more willing to tell us from whence these characters come from. Even if its just a name.
I think they learned their lesson with Arkhos and Mongseng.
It's not even about the worldbuilding details. The bigger problem is that they can't (or don't want to pay to) trademark those as-of-yet one-off planes. However, if they ever revisit them in an expert set, they do have to trademark them. It's too much effort (and money) for planes they don't even know they'll ever visit.
That is a good point. Still, it doesn't stop one from being curious.
If only Alara were left as shards. Love me some Esper and Bant. Grixis gets all the love though, not sure why lol Even Sorin admits it's more dismal than Innistrad - yikes.
Gaahhh despite all my disappointment I am so excited that O-Kagachi is a 5-color general for my Kamigawa Story deck. So awesome. I can't believe I get a legit (lol Genju of the Realm kbye) Commander from the actual story to lead the deck. Couldn't have thought of a better character to be 5c and lead it. Kyodai in the future I'll play in the 99 someday.
If only Alara were left as shards. Love me some Esper and Bant. Grixis gets all the love though, not sure why lol Even Sorin admits it's more dismal than Innistrad - yikes.
Bant is the worst-affected shard by the Conflux, because it was practically heaven.
Esper and Grixis probably reaped the benefits the most, because Esper now has access to the materials they need to make new Etherium, and Grixis now has life coming back to it (and it was already at rock-bottom, so it really had nowhere to go but up). That's not to say that Esper wasn't negatively affected, since the Sphinxes were rekt by Malfegor's forces, the tight control they had over their environment has partially unraveled, and some Esperites have defected to the other shards (though to be fair, every shard has its defectors and creatures that have defected to it).
Thousands of years ago, before there were vampires on Innistrad, Edgar Markov was an alchemist in the land that would become Stensia. Famine was sweeping the land, and the old alchemist Edgar searched for a solution that could help the starving families feed themselves. The answer was a brutal one: to undergo a blood ritual that would cause some of the people to feed on blood. It would provide sustenance to those few, reducing demand for the failing crops, but it would also cull the overall population, reducing the number of hungry mouths to feed.
Thus were vampires born on Innistrad.
But Edgar Markov's chilling tale has an even darker truth behind it. The famine was an expedient excuse for Edgar's blood magic, but in truth the aging alchemist was experimenting with ways to achieve agelessness for himself and his only grandson, Sorin. A demon called Shilgengar preyed on Edgar's ambition and whispered secrets that would point the way toward Edgar's blood-feeding experiment. Shilgengar also helped the old man overcome his squeamishness at what must be done. Still, Edgar needed prodding for him to go through with the ritual to create the blood-feeders.
And that's when the famine put him over the edge.The famine might or might not have been Shilgengar's doing. Either way, it was the genesis of this world's vampires. With his blood magic experiment, Edgar succeeded at finding a way to extend his own life. He anointed Sorin with the same vampiric state—and shockingly, his grandson disappeared.
Is Alara just that easy of a world to make one off characters for? It seems like more than one commander every year comes from there.
Due to Alara pretty big and diverse as well as being all weirdly multicolor I think it is easy to put random "odd" color legendary creatures there.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
The rest that were revealed were already known from a "Which plane are they from" point of view, but the time period is interesting. The "unknown" ones I guess mean that they're probably from somewhere brand new.
I'm guessing that they're holding open design space with the unknowns so as to not back themselves into any future corners.
The blurbs about the random legends are so scarce and generic they're doomed to be randoms forever lol Glad I brought this issue to Maro's attention today despite being blown off and told to basically deal with it for the sake of Mel.
You weren't blown off. You were given a long (for blogatog) and reasonable explanation for why everything is not about what you want to see out of a set.
Am I the only one who read the text for Mirri, looked at the artwork again and noticed "yep they're both yellow"?
It's the first line about her and directly next to her face, making it kind of awkward.
Reminded me of the Harry Potter movies where Harry's mother doesn't have his eyes despite it being such an important thing (and the people having consulted Rowling about the problems with contacts etc.). Pretty much a "you had one job" kind of deal.
The blurbs about the random legends are so scarce and generic they're doomed to be randoms forever lol Glad I brought this issue to Maro's attention today despite being blown off and told to basically deal with it for the sake of Mel.
You weren't blown off. You were given a long (for blogatog) and reasonable explanation for why everything is not about what you want to see out of a set.
Yeah, that explanation was very reasonable. With something like that, you'd expect even hyper-Vorthoses to understand, but nope, apparently that's not the case.
[quote from="Tiro of Meletis »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-storyline/777112-commander-2017-general-discussion-renamed?comment=198"]The blurbs about the random legends are so scarce and generic they're doomed to be randoms forever lol Glad I brought this issue to Maro's attention today despite being blown off and told to basically deal with it for the sake of Mel.
You weren't blown off. You were given a long (for blogatog) and reasonable explanation for why everything is not about what you want to see out of a set.
Yeah, that explanation was very reasonable. With something like that, you'd expect even hyper-Vorthoses to understand, but nope, apparently that's not the case.
May I please have a link to this? Also, this is just how Tiro/Jenrik is.
The blurbs about the random legends are so scarce and generic they're doomed to be randoms forever lol Glad I brought this issue to Maro's attention today despite being blown off and told to basically deal with it for the sake of Mel.
You weren't blown off. You were given a long (for blogatog) and reasonable explanation for why everything is not about what you want to see out of a set.
I know. I meant that I was told this isn't something they can change.
The blurbs about the random legends are so scarce and generic they're doomed to be randoms forever lol Glad I brought this issue to Maro's attention today despite being blown off and told to basically deal with it for the sake of Mel.
You weren't blown off. You were given a long (for blogatog) and reasonable explanation for why everything is not about what you want to see out of a set.
I know. I meant that I was told this isn't something they can change.
They can change it at the expense of playability.
I'm not sure most players would be comfortable with that. And neither is WotC seeing as decreased playability would likely reduce in less bought product.
As an aside, as a Vorthos myself, I like getting glimpses of new planes (alongside old characters). The multiverse is vast and turning it into the size of someone's backyard is a huge disservice to the entire premise of Magic.
The blurbs about the random legends are so scarce and generic they're doomed to be randoms forever lol Glad I brought this issue to Maro's attention today despite being blown off and told to basically deal with it for the sake of Mel.
You weren't blown off. You were given a long (for blogatog) and reasonable explanation for why everything is not about what you want to see out of a set.
I know. I meant that I was told this isn't something they can change.
They can change it at the expense of playability.
I'm not sure most players would be comfortable with that. And neither is WotC seeing as decreased playability would likely reduce in less bought product.
As an aside, as a Vorthos myself, I like getting glimpses of new planes (alongside old characters). The multiverse is vast and turning it into the size of someone's backyard is a huge disservice to the entire premise of Magic.
I find that to be the either-or fallacy. One does not exist at the expense of the other IMO. And Commander is hardly the product for optimizing designs the way they do with standard, modern or other formats. This actually is the format for Timmy Vorthos to shine. If not in a slow kitchen table casual format, then where? These decks don't *need* anything in the realm of design except better mana bases, which isn't what they're getting. These self-imposed restrictions to try and please everyone is a mess - focus exclusively on hitting the actual target audience that are deprived all year long when WOTC is catering to standard sensibilities, or the Modern whiners, etc. The Dragon deck proved all of a deck's legends can be from the past and not be an issue. Wizard tribe has a massive repertoire of old characters as did vampires. Cats should have been where they deviated, not 3/4 of the decks.
The problem I have with your last point is, for the last half year we've been on Amonkhet, a new plane. A player like yourself has a whole slew of new Legendary Creatures from that new plane. And for the next half year, we're going to be on Ixalan, a new plane, where a player like yourself will have a whole slew of new Legendary Creatures from that world. When we return to Dominaria, if it's anything like Shadows Over Innistrad, all but one of its Legends may be repeat characters, because WOTC wants to replicate what resonated the first time (as an example, not commenting specifically about Dominaria set here) instead of delivering other lore characters. And presumably the set after will be a new plane again, where a player like yourself will have another flood of new Legends from a new world once more before the next Commander product lands.
New sets are new worlds and new characters.
Return sets are the same characters from before.
That leaves Commander to deliver past characters, and only half the product is that. So overall, it feels unfair.
That's like buying one of your kids gifts every day of the year and the other only on Christmas, then when Christmas rolls around going "you both get gifts, but you should give half your gift to your sibling who gets gifts every day of the year, because he wants more."
New sets introduce us to new worlds in detail, especially if said world has relevance to the overarching story.
The multiverse is too vast to expect new sets to cover everything, and even individual planes are generally big enough to have an enormous number of characters we haven't even heard of before. What Flisch is saying is that these randoms help to make the verse feel bigger.
New sets introduce us to new worlds in detail, especially if said world has relevance to the overarching story.
The multiverse is too vast to expect new sets to cover everything, and even individual planes are generally big enough to have an enormous number of characters we haven't even heard of before. What Flisch is saying is that these randoms help to make the verse feel bigger.
I'm going to retire my argument with this post btw. Just bear in mind that when WOTC is trying to please everyone with Commander products, they've left out past lore fans all year long everywhere else. If we're not the priority in our own target product, and it's unreasonable to expect it elsewhere, then I don't know what to say.
I find that to be the either-or fallacy. One does not exist at the expense of the other IMO. And Commander is hardly the product for optimizing designs the way they do with standard, modern or other formats. This actually is the format for Timmy Vorthos to shine. If not in a slow kitchen table casual format, then where? These decks don't *need* anything in the realm of design except better mana bases, which isn't what they're getting. These self-imposed restrictions to try and please everyone is a mess - focus exclusively on hitting the actual target audience that are deprived all year long when WOTC is catering to standard sensibilities, or the Modern whiners, etc.
You seem to be assuming that storyline fans/Vorthoses are the target audience for Commander - the problem is, they aren't. Or at least they are not the only target audience. Sure, maybe the percentage of Vorthoses is higher among commander players than, say, Standard or Modern players. But I think they are still being outnumbered by the people who are mainly interested in the product as a fun casual multiplayer experience. Maybe a good subset of those people also care about seeing characters from Magic's past, but then again other people don't. And then there's the group of people who do care a bit, but don't have completely accurate 1:1 top-down designs of old characters (or old characters in the first place) as their top priority. All the people that don't care as much for the older characters mostly want Commanders with new or interesting abilities (or abilities that aren't available on a commander yet) to help them build the decks they want. It's not reasonable to completely ignore those people and say that old characters is all the audience cares for (or rather: should care for), especially since those "Mels" are probably the majority. Magic is a game, after all, and while it's great being able to play a deck with your favourite character at the helm, it's not really exciting if the corresponding card isn't new, exciting or interesting from a gameplay perspective.
When an idea lends itself to an existing character, that character is considered. Ideally, you want to cover both parts of the audience after all. Mairsil, the Pretender is a supreme example of a commander that pleases the Mels and the Vorthoses at the same time. But some cool and new mechanics just don't suit any older characters.
Take Mathas, Fiend Seeker for example. He gives out "bounty counters" and the respective bounties for players to collect, that's a pretty interesting new ability. What old character would this mechanic fit? He's a commander for the WRB precon, you'd have to stick to those specific colors and all...
Who knows, maybe they considered an old character. However, if they did, they most likely decided it wasn't worth bending some past figure out of shape just to make it appear in a commander product (some would argue that's what happened with Ludecvic, Necro-Alchemist). That's why those random legends exist - they give designers more freedom to explore new kinds of effects, without being limited by some sort of creative canon.
To be fair, his abilities are fine IMO, and if you ignored the art or didn't think about the bizarre details, he'd be satisfactory as Khans!Taigam. Unfortunately, ignoring the details is not what Vorthos typically do, which is why I wish they put in more effort with making sure the art is accurately depicting Sidisi's Hand. Of course, this Taigam no longer exists and Ojutai!Taigam is decent all around, so I guess it's moot.
I'd say that the shards grant so much diversity to Alara that they could find quite a bit of material to work with in coming up with random legends. So yes, I do think they're using it as a "dumping ground". They haven't even fully tapped into the characters that were shown or implied in the Alara lore but never got cards, such as Eliza of the Keep (the young female necromancer on Grixis who challenged Sedris), Zaliki, Marisi, Asha, Cylia (the first elf in Naya with the "Anima" trait), any of the Asura that aren't Jenara, Mubin (Rafiq's friend who died in the Alara Unbroken novel) and Crucius.
As for Taigam... I think there was just a miscommunication or an error somewhere along the line. It happens from time to time, but it's MEANT to be Khans Taigam.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Kess looks pretty old up close. I don't know if it's age (and in that case, she's pretty strong or resourceful to have survived for that long), the stress of living in Grixis or the magic she uses taking its toll.
Khans!Taigam having the Silumgar symbol on his head instead of the Sultai symbol is even more obvious in that close-up image, and it's a shame they can't rectify it.
Shame on Licia for not caring for her sword better. She also needs to step her fashion up. Rem Karolus has a whole cloak of angel feather.
The bit about Edgar is a recon right? Originally he did what he did so his people could overcome a famine but now he's just a doting grandpa?
Is Alara just that easy of a world to make one off characters for? It seems like more than one commander every year comes from there.
I wish theyd be more willing to tell us from whence these characters come from. Even if its just a name. Speaking of. Were supposed to get a story for this release right? I guess that's probably next week?
I've said that already, and those who responded pointed out that there's the risk of retconning details about the planes later if they choose to use them for Standard-legal sets.
Angels never catch a break, do they? Also, at least we know that (what I presume to be) Rome world has Angels.
I think they learned their lesson with Arkhos and Mongseng.
It's not even about the worldbuilding details. The bigger problem is that they can't (or don't want to pay to) trademark those as-of-yet one-off planes. However, if they ever revisit them in an expert set, they do have to trademark them. It's too much effort (and money) for planes they don't even know they'll ever visit.
That is a good point. Still, it doesn't stop one from being curious.
Gaahhh despite all my disappointment I am so excited that O-Kagachi is a 5-color general for my Kamigawa Story deck. So awesome. I can't believe I get a legit (lol Genju of the Realm kbye) Commander from the actual story to lead the deck. Couldn't have thought of a better character to be 5c and lead it. Kyodai in the future I'll play in the 99 someday.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Bant is the worst-affected shard by the Conflux, because it was practically heaven.
Esper and Grixis probably reaped the benefits the most, because Esper now has access to the materials they need to make new Etherium, and Grixis now has life coming back to it (and it was already at rock-bottom, so it really had nowhere to go but up). That's not to say that Esper wasn't negatively affected, since the Sphinxes were rekt by Malfegor's forces, the tight control they had over their environment has partially unraveled, and some Esperites have defected to the other shards (though to be fair, every shard has its defectors and creatures that have defected to it).
No just badly paraphrased;
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/savor-flavor/sorins-homecoming-2012-01-09
Due to Alara pretty big and diverse as well as being all weirdly multicolor I think it is easy to put random "odd" color legendary creatures there.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I'm guessing that they're holding open design space with the unknowns so as to not back themselves into any future corners.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Yeah, that explanation was very reasonable. With something like that, you'd expect even hyper-Vorthoses to understand, but nope, apparently that's not the case.
May I please have a link to this? Also, this is just how Tiro/Jenrik is.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
They can change it at the expense of playability.
I'm not sure most players would be comfortable with that. And neither is WotC seeing as decreased playability would likely reduce in less bought product.
As an aside, as a Vorthos myself, I like getting glimpses of new planes (alongside old characters). The multiverse is vast and turning it into the size of someone's backyard is a huge disservice to the entire premise of Magic.
The problem I have with your last point is, for the last half year we've been on Amonkhet, a new plane. A player like yourself has a whole slew of new Legendary Creatures from that new plane. And for the next half year, we're going to be on Ixalan, a new plane, where a player like yourself will have a whole slew of new Legendary Creatures from that world. When we return to Dominaria, if it's anything like Shadows Over Innistrad, all but one of its Legends may be repeat characters, because WOTC wants to replicate what resonated the first time (as an example, not commenting specifically about Dominaria set here) instead of delivering other lore characters. And presumably the set after will be a new plane again, where a player like yourself will have another flood of new Legends from a new world once more before the next Commander product lands.
New sets are new worlds and new characters.
Return sets are the same characters from before.
That leaves Commander to deliver past characters, and only half the product is that. So overall, it feels unfair.
That's like buying one of your kids gifts every day of the year and the other only on Christmas, then when Christmas rolls around going "you both get gifts, but you should give half your gift to your sibling who gets gifts every day of the year, because he wants more."
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
The multiverse is too vast to expect new sets to cover everything, and even individual planes are generally big enough to have an enormous number of characters we haven't even heard of before. What Flisch is saying is that these randoms help to make the verse feel bigger.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
When an idea lends itself to an existing character, that character is considered. Ideally, you want to cover both parts of the audience after all. Mairsil, the Pretender is a supreme example of a commander that pleases the Mels and the Vorthoses at the same time. But some cool and new mechanics just don't suit any older characters.
Take Mathas, Fiend Seeker for example. He gives out "bounty counters" and the respective bounties for players to collect, that's a pretty interesting new ability. What old character would this mechanic fit? He's a commander for the WRB precon, you'd have to stick to those specific colors and all...
Who knows, maybe they considered an old character. However, if they did, they most likely decided it wasn't worth bending some past figure out of shape just to make it appear in a commander product (some would argue that's what happened with Ludecvic, Necro-Alchemist). That's why those random legends exist - they give designers more freedom to explore new kinds of effects, without being limited by some sort of creative canon.