Do we have confirmation that the Wizards deck is Grixis colors?
REALLY official? No. Neither for the vamps, dragons and cats. But Blake Rasmussen advertised the info from the Japanese magazine (that spoiled Mardu colors for vamps and said the last deck is Grixis Wizards) with #WotCstaff tag, and I guess he would not do that if it was not correct.
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His appearance and physiognomy type matches the Theros leonin styleguide almost 100%, see here.
Problem is that Theros doesn't really have Knights (just the one). And the stones behind him glow orange, like the Fractured Powerstones.
He's also way too orange.
Edit: When I was looking at the art on my phone, it appears I might have mistaken mushrooms for glow on the rocks.
Yeah, those seem to be mushrooms.
Anyway, his clothing very much corresponds to this particular image. I see no problem with him being orange, as Leonin Snarecaster has similar hue. And the clothes - the blue cloak, the strings/tassels on the cloak...like it was taken directly from the concept.
His head does not look like a lion's,it seems more like a lynx. He also - god knows why, probably the profile and pose - reminded me of Mirri's art. On the other hand, Theran Oreskos Sun Guide isn't a lion either, looks more like a leopard.
The leonin on Theros were always different from the other denizens (not believing in the gods, etc.), so I see no problem with them having a wandering knight there...
We will knew what he is soon, anyway. I so much hope we are getting at least one short info on all the commanders after the product is out (at least in the brochures, if not on the page).
His appearance and physiognomy type matches the Theros leonin styleguide almost 100%, see here.
Traverse the Outlands also seems to have a Theros vibe considering the appearance of the giant in the background.
I was just rubbing my chin at that one and wondering if anyone else got a Theros vibe from it too. Balan looks Theran as well from the clothes I concur.
I'm guessing the Cat deck may have the highest number of random legends, given the small roster of it cardless characters. Hopefully this is where they pull most of that and not in Wizards or Vampires. We've already seen that Dragons are primarily cardless characters, which is valid given how many dragons needed them.
Back when O-Kagachi was leaked, my biggest issue was with his Dragon typing (since Serpent was a type and that was all he was referred as). While the preview article doesn't address it, I did give the entire issue a thought and concluded that O-Kagachi could have always been a Dragon.
Admittedly part of it was me jumping straight to conclusions and reacting too fast when it comes to Kamigawa (heavy bias there since I started the game there), but I'm going to raise that I didn't pay too much attention to the art back then because of the quality and today's article presented it nicely, which brings me the point I didn't think of...
O-Kagachi's art is fully serpentine - no claws (wings don't count since no Kamigawa Dragon has them). Initially I was about to raise the point to reinforce my issue with the typing, until I remembered Keiga. Among all 5 dragons, Keiga is probably the closest in visual representation to O-Kagachi (basically no claws either) but was definitely mentioned as a dragon, not serpent in the story (although it was actually just mainly referred to as guardian spirit of the lake).
So basically I think it's proven serpentine creatures in Kamigawa are essentially dragons. Probably could conclude that earlier, but the arts of Keiga and Final Judgment alone felt a bit too unclear to make a conclusion and I think O-Kagachi's art is the actual defining factor.
I didn't throw the "Great Old Serpent" portion away though - I think it's just the title for O-Kagachi describing his vengeful nature rather than the literal description of a species - although the art / his appearance ironically perfectly fits the literal description of "Serpent", which created so much confusion for me (Keiga alone back then wasn't enough to disprove it for me, personally).
Asian dragons tend to be serpentine. A dragon is essentially a flying serpent, often with wings. IDK, the name for me still applies. On Kamigawa, being literally creature type snake (since serpent is for sea monsters) would have made him an Orochi. So this is entirely valid, to be a dragon, yet a serpent in appearance and behavior with that title.
Kinda weird to me that Wasitoria was only made because of design needs rather than being considered as a character card first… They need to design Top-Down more. I fear if they don't, we'll end up with generic legends to satisfy design needs rather than get anything relevant to old lore. These self-imposed restrictions aren't fun.
Kinda weird to me that Wasitoria was only made because of design needs rather than being considered as a character card first… They need to design Top-Down more. I fear if they don't, we'll end up with generic legends to satisfy design needs rather than get anything relevant to old lore. These self-imposed restrictions aren't fun.
They're responsible for making a fun, balanced game first. Wasitora might have never happened if it weren't for 'self-imposed restrictions'. She's a minor character from a non-block story.
Kinda weird to me that Wasitoria was only made because of design needs rather than being considered as a character card first… They need to design Top-Down more. I fear if they don't, we'll end up with generic legends to satisfy design needs rather than get anything relevant to old lore. These self-imposed restrictions aren't fun.
They're responsible for making a fun, balanced game first. Wasitora might have never happened if it weren't for 'self-imposed restrictions'. She's a minor character from a non-block story.
It's Commander though. Top-down designed Legends aren't going to do any harm. If anything, forcing characters like Ledevic to fit the mold of the product instead of the product adapting to top-down design of the character leads to complaints. Cards not being balanced in the deck isn't something any player has worried about, considering we all tear these apart and put the cards into other decks. My concern is missing out on cool Vorthos cards because "it just didn't fit." I'd start with the Legends go from there. But at the same time, so far they've managed to do both rather well enough, so we'll see.
The shift to theme decks has implications. I can't tell if it'll be a good or bad thing yet since color combinations are more versatile, yet potentially restrict certain characters in their own right, too. It's probably cooler to do thematic decks, which in theory is what I would prefer too. I don't imagine they meant tribal by theme, but that tribal is one such theme they've now explored. Next year could be plane-themed, or something Who knows?
It's Commander though. Top-down designed Legends aren't going to do any harm. If anything, forcing characters like Ledevic to fit the mold of the product instead of the product adapting to top-down design of the character leads to complaints.
The problem with Ludevic wasn't the card itself but that they made it Ludevic. If it was a new made-up character, everything would've been perfectly fine.
Gameplay does come first. Magic is a game, not a card gallery.
Cards not being balanced in the deck isn't something any player has worried about, considering we all tear these apart and put the cards into other decks.
You would be surprised, but there are a lot of people who play with the decks as they are.
It's Commander though. Top-down designed Legends aren't going to do any harm. If anything, forcing characters like Ledevic to fit the mold of the product instead of the product adapting to top-down design of the character leads to complaints.
The problem with Ludevic wasn't the card itself but that they made it Ludevic. If it was a new made-up character, everything would've been perfectly fine.
Gameplay does come first. Magic is a game, not a card gallery.
So had Ludevic created Blue Zombie tokens instead and given all Zombies +1/+1 (as an example) this would have been catastrophic for gameplay?
It's Commander though. Top-down designed Legends aren't going to do any harm. If anything, forcing characters like Ledevic to fit the mold of the product instead of the product adapting to top-down design of the character leads to complaints.
The problem with Ludevic wasn't the card itself but that they made it Ludevic. If it was a new made-up character, everything would've been perfectly fine.
Gameplay does come first. Magic is a game, not a card gallery.
So had Ludevic created Blue Zombie tokens instead and given all Zombies +1/+1 (as an example) this would have been catastrophic for gameplay?
No but that doesn't fit the deck theme and why would anyone be want a knock-off Geralf and Gisa?
These decks are bottom-up design as much as you don't like that, thats is the case. We either are going to get legendary creatures who ability is both flavorful and fit the deck themes or you get cases with Ludevic where the flavor fails but the ability is good for the deck. Unless they do something like Commader 204 there the focus was on characters who didn't get cards thats how its going to be and frankly even as a vorthos I rather buy a good playing commander deck then one with for example, a 10 mana O-kagachi, that is perfectly top-down.
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I never saw Ludevic as a flavor fail though - Innistrad was full of necromancers and while he was indeed known for being one, he was even more known for his elusiveness, which was what the card was trying to convey (basically "go disturb someone else, not me"), at least on paper (in practice in EDH there nothing's stopping a player from damaging everyone else in the same turn), but I wouldn't go as far as calling the entire card a flavor fail to the character because I saw the attempt.
They could easily word it to check if you not damaged by the player whose turn it is as the condition for drawing a card (it has to check the player specifically, otherwise the other players will "disturb" you during not-their-turns to deny the card draw to that player, which will really be a real flavor fail), but I think they didn't want it to be that generous if the opponent couldn't do anything at all in his turn and still drew and basically netting you a free card each of your turns (because why would you damage yourself if that costed you your card draw). So yeah, we lost a more powerful and flavorful Ludevic because they probably thought it was too powerful gameplay-wise, but I still can see the same flavoring attempt behind the existing weaker version.
It's Commander though. Top-down designed Legends aren't going to do any harm. If anything, forcing characters like Ledevic to fit the mold of the product instead of the product adapting to top-down design of the character leads to complaints.
The problem with Ludevic wasn't the card itself but that they made it Ludevic. If it was a new made-up character, everything would've been perfectly fine.
Gameplay does come first. Magic is a game, not a card gallery.
So had Ludevic created Blue Zombie tokens instead and given all Zombies +1/+1 (as an example) this would have been catastrophic for gameplay?
It would be a total flavor fail. He was neither a stitcher nor a ghoulcaller. He was a necro-alchemist.
And frankly, I would not mind him taking the reclusive scientist role, the only fail of his card is that a NECRO-alchemist card is not black, or using black.
Meh...
The feeling when you sorely expect Sengir or Stromkirk, or even Anje Falkenrath, and you get THIS.... :-(
Honestly I don't mind these "random characters" so much. I just wish they would provide more backstory for them in preview articles etc. But they probably don't want to write themselves in a corner, especially when the characters are from planes we've never seen or heard of before.
The feeling when you sorely expect Sengir or Stromkirk, or even Anje Falkenrath, and you get THIS.... :-(
You expected Sengir, Stromkirk or Falkenrath to be part-white? Looks like you set yourself up for disappointment then. Not Wizard's fault.
Of course not :-). I meant that I am waiting for those cards to be SHOWN, not that I think that they are RWB. And we know that some of the legends will have less colors than three, well? None of them would make sense as RWB. Even Edgar is a stretch.
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I also agree with you, Edgar being part-white is a bit of a stretch, but I let it slide given how little we know of him.
Eh, I can see it simply from the fact that Sorin has been black/white in every appearance he's made since his original card, and black/white vampires do seem to exist on Innistrad. *shrug*
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REALLY official? No. Neither for the vamps, dragons and cats. But Blake Rasmussen advertised the info from the Japanese magazine (that spoiled Mardu colors for vamps and said the last deck is Grixis Wizards) with #WotCstaff tag, and I guess he would not do that if it was not correct.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/781016-balan-wandering-knight-facebook-spoiler-legendary
His appearance and physiognomy type matches the Theros leonin styleguide almost 100%, see here.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Traverse the Outlands also seems to have a Theros vibe considering the appearance of the giant in the background.
He's also way too orange.
Edit: When I was looking at the art on my phone, it appears I might have mistaken mushrooms for glow on the rocks.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Yeah, those seem to be mushrooms.
Anyway, his clothing very much corresponds to this particular image. I see no problem with him being orange, as Leonin Snarecaster has similar hue. And the clothes - the blue cloak, the strings/tassels on the cloak...like it was taken directly from the concept.
His head does not look like a lion's,it seems more like a lynx. He also - god knows why, probably the profile and pose - reminded me of Mirri's art. On the other hand, Theran Oreskos Sun Guide isn't a lion either, looks more like a leopard.
There is exactly one knight in Theros, Wingsteed Rider. Yes, Balan breaks the "knights have a steed" rule, but so does e.g. Accorder Paladin, Bold Impaler, Markov Dreadknight or Olivia, Mobilized for War.
The leonin on Theros were always different from the other denizens (not believing in the gods, etc.), so I see no problem with them having a wandering knight there...
We will knew what he is soon, anyway. I so much hope we are getting at least one short info on all the commanders after the product is out (at least in the brochures, if not on the page).
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
I'm guessing the Cat deck may have the highest number of random legends, given the small roster of it cardless characters. Hopefully this is where they pull most of that and not in Wizards or Vampires. We've already seen that Dragons are primarily cardless characters, which is valid given how many dragons needed them.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Nazahn, if anything, looks like a naturalized Bant leonin (like Leonin Armorguard).
On the other hand, Mirri gives me a BIG hope of an updated Baron Sengir card in Vampires
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Regardless, Balan is very much not a Therosi name. Balan is a little too armored, too. It looks close, but off.
Bloodline Necromancer is definitely Sengir, which lends some credence to that idea. We'll find out later today!
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Admittedly part of it was me jumping straight to conclusions and reacting too fast when it comes to Kamigawa (heavy bias there since I started the game there), but I'm going to raise that I didn't pay too much attention to the art back then because of the quality and today's article presented it nicely, which brings me the point I didn't think of...
O-Kagachi's art is fully serpentine - no claws (wings don't count since no Kamigawa Dragon has them). Initially I was about to raise the point to reinforce my issue with the typing, until I remembered Keiga. Among all 5 dragons, Keiga is probably the closest in visual representation to O-Kagachi (basically no claws either) but was definitely mentioned as a dragon, not serpent in the story (although it was actually just mainly referred to as guardian spirit of the lake).
So basically I think it's proven serpentine creatures in Kamigawa are essentially dragons. Probably could conclude that earlier, but the arts of Keiga and Final Judgment alone felt a bit too unclear to make a conclusion and I think O-Kagachi's art is the actual defining factor.
I didn't throw the "Great Old Serpent" portion away though - I think it's just the title for O-Kagachi describing his vengeful nature rather than the literal description of a species - although the art / his appearance ironically perfectly fits the literal description of "Serpent", which created so much confusion for me (Keiga alone back then wasn't enough to disprove it for me, personally).
Kinda weird to me that Wasitoria was only made because of design needs rather than being considered as a character card first… They need to design Top-Down more. I fear if they don't, we'll end up with generic legends to satisfy design needs rather than get anything relevant to old lore. These self-imposed restrictions aren't fun.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Holy moly, this full art of O-Kagachi!!!
They're responsible for making a fun, balanced game first. Wasitora might have never happened if it weren't for 'self-imposed restrictions'. She's a minor character from a non-block story.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
The shift to theme decks has implications. I can't tell if it'll be a good or bad thing yet since color combinations are more versatile, yet potentially restrict certain characters in their own right, too. It's probably cooler to do thematic decks, which in theory is what I would prefer too. I don't imagine they meant tribal by theme, but that tribal is one such theme they've now explored. Next year could be plane-themed, or something Who knows?
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
The problem with Ludevic wasn't the card itself but that they made it Ludevic. If it was a new made-up character, everything would've been perfectly fine.
Gameplay does come first. Magic is a game, not a card gallery.
You would be surprised, but there are a lot of people who play with the decks as they are.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
No but that doesn't fit the deck theme and why would anyone be want a knock-off Geralf and Gisa?
These decks are bottom-up design as much as you don't like that, thats is the case. We either are going to get legendary creatures who ability is both flavorful and fit the deck themes or you get cases with Ludevic where the flavor fails but the ability is good for the deck. Unless they do something like Commader 204 there the focus was on characters who didn't get cards thats how its going to be and frankly even as a vorthos I rather buy a good playing commander deck then one with for example, a 10 mana O-kagachi, that is perfectly top-down.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
They could easily word it to check if you not damaged by the player whose turn it is as the condition for drawing a card (it has to check the player specifically, otherwise the other players will "disturb" you during not-their-turns to deny the card draw to that player, which will really be a real flavor fail), but I think they didn't want it to be that generous if the opponent couldn't do anything at all in his turn and still drew and basically netting you a free card each of your turns (because why would you damage yourself if that costed you your card draw). So yeah, we lost a more powerful and flavorful Ludevic because they probably thought it was too powerful gameplay-wise, but I still can see the same flavoring attempt behind the existing weaker version.
It would be a total flavor fail. He was neither a stitcher nor a ghoulcaller. He was a necro-alchemist.
And frankly, I would not mind him taking the reclusive scientist role, the only fail of his card is that a NECRO-alchemist card is not black, or using black.
Meh...
The feeling when you sorely expect Sengir or Stromkirk, or even Anje Falkenrath, and you get THIS.... :-(
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Cōnservātum album delenda est.
You expected Sengir, Stromkirk or Falkenrath to be part-white? Looks like you set yourself up for disappointment then. Not Wizard's fault.
Of course not :-). I meant that I am waiting for those cards to be SHOWN, not that I think that they are RWB. And we know that some of the legends will have less colors than three, well? None of them would make sense as RWB. Even Edgar is a stretch.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
I still don't see how Licia factors in there. Her being the RWB legend does not reduce the chances of the other legends to show up in less colours.
I also agree with you, Edgar being part-white is a bit of a stretch, but I let it slide given how little we know of him.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Eh, I can see it simply from the fact that Sorin has been black/white in every appearance he's made since his original card, and black/white vampires do seem to exist on Innistrad. *shrug*