Something that's come up in the Amonkhet thread related to Nissa walking around on an elf-less plane (and also Ajani on leonin-less Kaladesh), but I've been thinking about it more generally for a while now.
I think it's getting less and less believable for the existence of planeswalkers to be mostly unknown. There are a lot of planes on which the activity of planeswalkers has been public and dramatic enough that the general populace reasonably ought to know about them.
Ravnica is an especially big case, as somebody really should be wondering where Jace and Gideon go when they're not at work. And I know they did an entire story article about it, but it's still hard for me to buy that Niv Mizzet hasn't worked it out. The same goes perhaps even more so for House Dimir.
I would think that Kaladesh ought to know about them, not so much because of Chandra but because of Dovin Baan, who seems like he would have the motivation to reveal his capabilities to his superiors at the Consulate, and who seemed to think it was no big deal to hire planeswalker help from off-world.
I would think that while Nicol Bolas would probably want to keep Amonkhet ignorant about the existence of other planes, I've been surprised that he apparently didn't leave behind some specific anti-planeswalker indoctrination to deal with interference. As of this week though, it looks like maybe he did after all.
For Theros, belief in other planes wouldn't really be too much of a stretch. Nyx is already basically another universe next door. Plus Theros just doesn't seem like that big of a place. Outsiders would be much more apparent. Then again, Kiora's claim that she was an avatar of Thassa was a pretty plausible cover story.
On Zendikar in the wake of the Eldrazi crisis, I think it's safe to say that pretty much all the remaining survivors have to know about planeswalkers.
Same thing goes for Alara. If Ajani and Elspeth didn't explain to their people what was going on with the Conflux, that would just be a straight-up violation of their duty.
Some other planes are more edge cases, like Kamigawa (Tamiyo's household seems pretty open about it, I don't see why they would feel the need to keep it secret from others), or Innistrad (Sorin very likely wouldn't tell anybody, Tibalt is Tibalt, and any rumor about mysterious travelers from other world would just be another of the many crazy things that some people believe -- but surely somebody really wants to know what that Emrakul business was about). Tarkir probably doesn't know (Narset and Sarkhan have reasons not to tell, and the business between Ugin and Bolas way-back-when probably didn't look much different than any other big ol' dragon fight to everybody on the ground).
New Phyrexia and Dominaria obviously know all about them.
I guess my point is, Wizards doesn't really need to keep up the pretense that most people in most places in the Multiverse don't know about planeswalkers and other planes. It would be more interesting if they saved this story conceit for newly visited planes that specifically don't have any past experience with them. If they quietly retired this trope from most of the current planes, I think it would remove a potential source of broken suspension of disbelief.
So one thing I didn't get to say when this popped up in the other thread is that Ajani was covered up on Kaladesh. He was wearing a hood, gauntlets and boots. So no one knew except Oviya until later in the story.
I think the reason people don't know about planeswalkers in general is because they don't know about planes. If you could never know that there are planes beyond yours then there's no reason to think that there are people out there that can go between them.
The Zendikari probably know. Probably a substantial portion of Ghirapur knows now. I wouldn't be surprised if part of Return to Ravnica 2; Guild With Avengeance has to do with knowledge of planeswalking getting out there.
Ravnica is an especially big case, as somebody really should be wondering where Jace and Gideon go when they're not at work. And I know they did an entire story article about it, but it's still hard for me to buy that Niv Mizzet hasn't worked it out. The same goes perhaps even more so for House Dimir.
Seems like an insane jump to go from "sometimes these people aren't around" to "there are an infinite number of worlds in the cosmos and certain random people have the ability to travel between them". Surely it makes more sense to conclude that they're occasionally busy and not available for their own personal reasons? Like I don't know where Elon Musk is at all times but I'm guessing that's because my spy network is too small not because he's an interdimensional wizard.
For Theros, belief in other planes wouldn't really be too much of a stretch. Nyx is already basically another universe next door. Plus Theros just doesn't seem like that big of a place. Outsiders would be much more apparent. Then again, Kiora's claim that she was an avatar of Thassa was a pretty plausible cover story.
Again why would the existence of Nyx lead anyone to conclude that planeswalkers exist. If anything the visible existence of a realm of the gods seems like an immediate explanation for literally anything that could ever happen.
Same thing goes for Alara. If Ajani and Elspeth didn't explain to their people what was going on with the Conflux, that would just be a straight-up violation of their duty.
Why? Bant is a world where matters are still settled by people hitting each other. Even if you could explain to them that other planes exist what good would it do them?
Innistrad (Sorin very likely wouldn't tell anybody, Tibalt is Tibalt, and any rumor about mysterious travelers from other world would just be another of the many crazy things that some people believe -- but surely somebody really wants to know what that Emrakul business was about).
Why would anyone on Innistrad think that the presence of a massive inconceivable horror that almost killed them all was anything but ordinary? Emrakul is just the worst demon they've ever encountered.
Some people on Ravnica do know about planeswalkers. It is a hotspot of mana and a lot of old walkers used to battle there and leave behind many armies which is why Ravnica is so diverse. The guildpact kept them out but since it broke planeswlaker can now come and go from Ravnica. Niv probability knows about planeswalkers but still believes they are the all powerful being they used to be.
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Also, I'm pretty sure that it was mentioned multiple times that the people of Zendikar ARE aware of planeswalkers, even before the rise of the Eldrazi. At least a few gods (and their prophets) of Theros know about them too and while it isn't public knowledge, it seemed to me as if the higher echelons of Kaladeshs government are also aware of planeswalkers (ignoring that they didn't seem to know that Tezzeret was one of them).
It seems like most planes actually don't know, and thats by and large because planeswalkers are (for the most part) cautious about letting people know- for good reason too, especially post-Mending. Take Ravnica for instance- not only do most people not know about Walkers, but Ral and Jace dropped their enmity to cover it up once it became obvious Project Lightning Bug was going to reveal it.
Kaladesh also didn't know. Some do, like Pia (chandra clearly told her in a scene I wish we'd gotten to see), and Yahenni. But whether Baan has revealed his nature to the Consulate isn't really known, and Baan, just by personality, seems like the kind of guy who's not going to go walking that frequently.
I think on both worlds (and most where its not a common knowledge), there's a lot of high scholars and officials who suspect such a thing, even if its not confirmed, or known to a full extent.
I rather enjoy that most don't know about planeswalkers. But even then, there are plenty that do know. Usually related in some way to a PW. Kiora's sister, Tamiyo's kids, Ojutai, etc.... (someone should make a list of all in-the-know)
I agree that many planes should know, but recent planes all have pretty good reasons for them not being well known, or known at all.
- Amonkhet. Everyone's too young.
- Kaladesh. Planeswalkers are inherently magic users, which is a big no-no.
- Innistrad. Too much on their plate, people probably assume anyone that looks different is some evil horror trying to kill them, and stay away. Nissa looks human enough.
- Zendikar. See above.
Chadir the Navigator from Zendikar at least has heard of them, even if he doesn't seem to know what they are. He shows up in Vastwood Gorger's zendikar flavor text.
I think it's a little dumb that Planeswalkers would seek to hide their identity as a rule. It's like if Superman tried to pull off the Clark Kent persona on the Moon when interacting with the Mooninites. Just... why?
You're an alien and you want to visit Earth because you're either just curious about it or because others of your kind are there and you need to find, aid, or even subdue them. You know that the dominant species of Earth is sapient and intelligent, but you have either very little or no knowledge of their culture(s), customs, etc. You know nothing of their belief system(s) or even if they have any. You look a little bit different than some of them, but you could pretty easily pass yourself off as one and/or conceal those parts of yourself that give away your not being a human. Do you:
(A) Try to blend in and complete your objective as quietly as possible
(B) Flaunt that you're an alien and risk subjecting yourself to (at best) their unending curiosity or (at worst) violence secondary to their fear of the unknown
Look at what Heliod did to Elspeth for an example of why planeswalkers may not be eager to share what they are. I suppose that a religious culture like that of the Therans could react positively to meeting what they may see as a god, but it really could go either way -- and unless the planeswalker in question is all-powerful, s/he may not be able to escape unharmed.
I'm pretty sure planewalkers are somewhat common knowledge on Zendikar. The gatewatch didn't try to hide it, and Tazri,Jori En, and Kiora's sister knew or at least suspected.
(A) Try to blend in and complete your objective as quietly as possible
(B) Flaunt that you're an alien and risk subjecting yourself to (at best) their unending curiosity or (at worst) violence secondary to their fear of the unknown
Uhhh... I'd like to phone a friend. His name is Georgio.
The thing about planeswalkers keeping themselves a secret, though, is that it assumes that all planeswalkers have a similar motivation. Sure, Jace had the need to keep a low profile on Innistrad, but Liliana and Sorin didn't. Same goes for Ravnica: I can certainly see Jace and Ral trying to conceal their nature, but I would expect Gideon to feel duty-bound to tell his Boros comrades why he drops off the face of the planet all the time, if they ask (which they would). And an unsubtle PW like Ob Nixilis or Domri Rade would pretty much blow the lid off the secret everywhere they go.
For Kaladesh, like I said, the issue is Dovin Baan. He really comes off as the type of guy who doesn't keep secrets. He would want the Consulate to know about planeswalkers.
The thing about planeswalkers keeping themselves a secret, though, is that it assumes that all planeswalkers have a similar motivation. Sure, Jace had the need to keep a low profile on Innistrad, but Liliana and Sorin didn't. Same goes for Ravnica: I can certainly see Jace and Ral trying to conceal their nature, but I would expect Gideon to feel duty-bound to tell his Boros comrades why he drops off the face of the planet all the time, if they ask (which they would). And an unsubtle PW like Ob Nixilis or Domri Rade would pretty much blow the lid off the secret everywhere they go.
For Kaladesh, like I said, the issue is Dovin Baan. He really comes off as the type of guy who doesn't keep secrets. He would want the Consulate to know about planeswalkers.
There is a huge problem with this line of thought. Even if a planeswalker went about telling people that they went to a different world whenever they disappeared, how many people would believe them? Sure they could reasonably convince some people if they spent time and effort, but how often do you put that much effort? Every time you meet new people? Only your close friends on new worlds? I imagine Gideon went to a a lot of effort at first to convince others what he was, and when it never worked he gave up and let them believe what they were most comfortable with because he's the kind of guy who is more concerned with your well being than you knowing the truth. I'm also certain that when he arrive on Naya Domri was more occupied freaking out about the new world he was on over telling everyone about the world he came from, and if/when he ever got around to talking about it everyone assumed it was a fevered dream. Dovin is 100% the kind of person that would keep secrets, as long as that secret benefits the greater good(whatever that is to him), and again he might have tried explaining it to others only to very quickly realize how foolish it was to try and explain other worlds to individuals who couldn't perceive them.
I mean Ral is like 99% certain that if Niv found out about them that he'd capture and dissect as many as he could get his claws on.
And yeah Nissa could get away with being "human" on elfless planes just by covering her ears. Hell she could even just say she has big ears. It might get her some strange looks but if I came from a place that didn't know what elves were and I saw Nissa I probably wouldn't consider that she isn't human. Especially on a world like Amonkhet where people have bird, ram, and dog heads.
I mean Ral is like 99% certain that if Niv found out about them that he'd capture and dissect as many as he could get his claws on.
And yeah Nissa could get away with being "human" on elfless planes just by covering her ears. Hell she could even just say she has big ears. It might get her some strange looks but if I came from a place that didn't know what elves were and I saw Nissa I probably wouldn't consider that she isn't human. Especially on a world like Amonkhet where people have bird, ram, and dog heads.
That's not good reasoning, to be frank. And I'm Mina. If you argue that she wouldn't stand out because there's other weirds things, then you're making a mistake because you assume that she won't look odd because there's other, odder things. But if the odd things are commonplace, she does stand out. I'm sure there is a name for that kind of argument, but it's wrong at any rate.
Please don't think I'm being disparaging, I just can't think of the logical name for it right now.
And Wizards is choosing not to explore that trope, or saving it for some worlds, and it seems the people of the multiverse are very accepting. Nahiri lead a group of cultist and had a "friendship" with Gisa and everyone just figured she was just a very pale human and while Emrakul was the center of attention, people saw both Nissa and Tamiyo sealing and didn't raise too much of a fuss. Heck, Nissa somehow is so beautiful that the all the elves of Lorwyn forgave her lack of horns and hoofed feet.
While you can't explain it on all worlds, the aetherborn have only been around ~60 years on Kaladesh, so seeing Ajani many people could just believe his people come from a far off/unknown part of the plane, Emrakul transformed many things in Innistrad into eldrazi horrors making a new race of monster on Innistrad, "Zendikar did't have vampires until after the eldrazi where sealed", new races have been known to appear.
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Chadir the Navigator from Zendikar at least has heard of them, even if he doesn't seem to know what they are. He shows up in Vastwood Gorger's zendikar flavor text.
I think it's a little dumb that Planeswalkers would seek to hide their identity as a rule. It's like if Superman tried to pull off the Clark Kent persona on the Moon when interacting with the Mooninites. Just... why?
You're missing the point. Since you're mentioning Mooninities, let's take Tamiyo as an example.
She is from Kamigawa. It is unlikely Soratami are on any other plane. You honestly think people would go "Heh, nice cosplay" if, say, Innistradi people saw her walking around out in the open?
Yet the average person- in fact, all unsparked- is unthreatening to the average planeswalker. And now that they have their own clique, who would even deign to attack them?
I mean Ral is like 99% certain that if Niv found out about them that he'd capture and dissect as many as he could get his claws on.
And yeah Nissa could get away with being "human" on elfless planes just by covering her ears. Hell she could even just say she has big ears. It might get her some strange looks but if I came from a place that didn't know what elves were and I saw Nissa I probably wouldn't consider that she isn't human. Especially on a world like Amonkhet where people have bird, ram, and dog heads.
I mean Ral is like 99% certain that if Niv found out about them that he'd capture and dissect as many as he could get his claws on.
And yeah Nissa could get away with being "human" on elfless planes just by covering her ears. Hell she could even just say she has big ears. It might get her some strange looks but if I came from a place that didn't know what elves were and I saw Nissa I probably wouldn't consider that she isn't human. Especially on a world like Amonkhet where people have bird, ram, and dog heads.
You do come from a plane without elves.
They said a place that didn't know what elves looked like not a place without elves. Which is a pretty big distinction. If your world has no word for these slightly(slightly considering you have animal headed people) different looking humans why would anyone assume they are anything but human?
I mean Ral is like 99% certain that if Niv found out about them that he'd capture and dissect as many as he could get his claws on.
And yeah Nissa could get away with being "human" on elfless planes just by covering her ears. Hell she could even just say she has big ears. It might get her some strange looks but if I came from a place that didn't know what elves were and I saw Nissa I probably wouldn't consider that she isn't human. Especially on a world like Amonkhet where people have bird, ram, and dog heads.
You do come from a plane without elves.
They said a place that didn't know what elves looked like not a place without elves. Which is a pretty big distinction. If your world has no word for these slightly(slightly considering you have animal headed people) different looking humans why would anyone assume they are anything but human?
I was being a little bit glib there.
And if I was familiar with humanoid creatures that aren't human I think I'd be quick to assume that something that didn't seem quite human was probably not human.
I mean Ral is like 99% certain that if Niv found out about them that he'd capture and dissect as many as he could get his claws on.
And yeah Nissa could get away with being "human" on elfless planes just by covering her ears. Hell she could even just say she has big ears. It might get her some strange looks but if I came from a place that didn't know what elves were and I saw Nissa I probably wouldn't consider that she isn't human. Especially on a world like Amonkhet where people have bird, ram, and dog heads.
You do come from a plane without elves.
They said a place that didn't know what elves looked like not a place without elves. Which is a pretty big distinction. If your world has no word for these slightly(slightly considering you have animal headed people) different looking humans why would anyone assume they are anything but human?
I was being a little bit glib there.
And if I was familiar with humanoid creatures that aren't human I think I'd be quick to assume that something that didn't seem quite human was probably not human.
That's fine and all but would you assume there was something wrong? Believing they are human or not isn't the problem at hand, its believing that they do or don't belong. The only reason to believe they don't belong is if you know what an elf is, that they are an elf, and that elves don't belong. Being that your plane doesn't have a concept of 'elf' you shouldn't believe any of these and thus shouldn't have a problem with an elf walking though town you will simply assume they are another nonhuman. Though honestly on Amonkhet if you saw an elf it seems unlikely you would think they were anything but human, because the other nonhuman humanoids have animal heads, while their head is quite human. So a humanoid with abnormally long ears is far more likely to be a human than any of the nonhuman humanoids you are aware of.
There is a huge problem with this line of thought. Even if a planeswalker went about telling people that they went to a different world whenever they disappeared, how many people would believe them? Sure they could reasonably convince some people if they spent time and effort, but how often do you put that much effort? Every time you meet new people? Only your close friends on new worlds? I imagine Gideon went to a a lot of effort at first to convince others what he was, and when it never worked he gave up and let them believe what they were most comfortable with because he's the kind of guy who is more concerned with your well being than you knowing the truth. I'm also certain that when he arrive on Naya Domri was more occupied freaking out about the new world he was on over telling everyone about the world he came from, and if/when he ever got around to talking about it everyone assumed it was a fevered dream. Dovin is 100% the kind of person that would keep secrets, as long as that secret benefits the greater good(whatever that is to him), and again he might have tried explaining it to others only to very quickly realize how foolish it was to try and explain other worlds to individuals who couldn't perceive them.
I don't see why other people would find it hard to believe, though. Let's consider two things:
1. Everyone in the MtG setting does in fact live in a multiverse of planes, with planeswalkers that can travel between them. And every plane that has appeared in the game has had at least some amount of planeswalker activity on it, sometimes quite a bit. In the case of both Ravnica and Kaladesh, figures in the most powerful and public echelons on their governments are planeswalkers. Plus they all live in worlds of powerful and varied magic. Your average person on the street, even if they had never thought about other planes before, would have little difficulty imagining their existence, or accepting evidence for their reality once it was presented to them.
2. I know it's a bit facile (and I don't want to start any arguments about religion), but let's look at our real world for an example. I think we can agree that the vast majority of humans on Earth have not had much direct personal experience with inhuman intelligent entities from other worlds. And yet, the vast majority of humans believe in the existence of such entities, whether they call them angels, bodhisattvas, devas, jinn, gods, voudun, aliens, or what have you. And even those Earth-humans who *don't* believe that such things actually exist still have no trouble *imagining* them, and creating stories about what such things might be like if they were real.
So given that MtG characters live in a world in which the existence of other planes and interplanar travelers is actually empirically provable, and we are in particular looking at the slice of the multiverse in which the most empirical evidence for them exists (because in the story that we're following, planeswalkers are constantly doing important public stuff), doesn't it make the most sense for most people to be aware of planewalkers at least in the abstract?
You are taking the knowledge that they are planeswalkers and then working backwards to explain why other people would think they are planeswalkers. That is the problem. In our world we have stories of aliens supernatural beings and countless other imagined things because we invented these to explain the unexplained world around us. In a world with actual magic they have no need to invent stories of magical beings that are responsible for the things they don't understand, because they aren't stories but actual recounting of events.
1. Everyone in the MtG setting does in fact live in a multiverse of planes, with planeswalkers that can travel between them. And every plane that has appeared in the game has had at least some amount of planeswalker activity on it, sometimes quite a bit. In the case of both Ravnica and Kaladesh, figures in the most powerful and public echelons on their governments are planeswalkers. Plus they all live in worlds of powerful and varied magic. Your average person on the street, even if they had never thought about other planes before, would have little difficulty imagining their existence, or accepting evidence for their reality once it was presented to them.
There is no correlation between the first part of your statement and the second part of your statement. If you live in a world of powerful and varied magic and people can't use this magic to move between worlds then you will have a very hard time believing that others can. The average individual would probably give little thought to whether or not its possible you came from another world because their understanding of such things is limited, but educated individuals would find it harder to believe because they would know its impossible. This is because despite the story being filled with walkers they are incredibly rare.
There is a big difference between our world and the mtg multiverse, and it isn't the existence of magic, though that may be the reason why. Our mythologies are far more varied. On any random plane the amount mythologies/fairytales pales in comparison to a single region on earth, and we have easy access to all of the mythologies on earth. So maybe without the existence of magic humans are more imaginative so we can envision all these things that don't exist. Because they are used everywhere most people have been exposed to at least the concept, but if you talk to someone who has literally never heard of these concepts before they will have a very hard time imagining them.
So you're saying that in a world where magic happens all the time, and in which the existence of other realities is empirically provable, people would actually be *less* credulous than they are in our world? That's an interesting argument. I don't think that I agree.
How about we zero in on Ravnica for a moment, since that seems to be the most controversial (and well-detailed) plane. I'll admit that I haven't read all of the stories, but from a fairly simple gleaning of materials, we know of at least eight planeswalkers who have engaged in significant activity on the plane. Of these, we have long-term residents that include (1) the single most important public figure on the entire planet (Jace Beleren); (2) a major figure in the Izzet (Ral Zarek) who has a proven technological method for tracking planeswalkers; (3) a famous battalion leader in the Boros Legion (Gideon Jura); (4) a legendarily successful assassin (Vraska); and (5) a member of the most uncontrolled and anarchic guild around (Domri Rade). It's also been visited by Liliana Vess, Garruk Wildspeaker in full-blown rampage mode, and Tezzeret, as well as hosting a major cell in the multiplanar Infinite Consortium. And while Jace, Ral, Vraska, and Tezzeret have obvious reasons to conceal their nature from the public (whether external motivations or internal character traits), the same cannot be clearly said for the others. Domri is a particularly hard case to justify, being both a Gruul tribe member and a kid.
Let's call that the "discoverable" side of the coin. Now let's look at the "discovering" side. We've got Niv-Mizzet, a 15,000 year old dragon and possibly the most scientifically intelligent individual in the known multiverse. We've got House Dimir, a whole guild dedicated to discovering secrets. We know that planeswalkers generate a distinctive, trackable energy discontinuity phenomenon every time they enter of leave the plane, and that the technology from Project Lightning Bug can in principle detect it. We've got the Azorius, who would be extremely interested in potential threats to legal stability (such as the Living Guildpact being non-functioning for long stretches of time), and the Boros Legion wondering where the mysterious hero of the Ninth has gotten off to. And of course the Gruul simply asking their brother Domri what his deal is.
Let's also talk about history. in addition to Niv-Mizzet, we also have other extremely ancient and knowledgeable figures, including Szadek, Aurelia, Rakdos, and likely some of the members of the Obzedat. The original Guildpact supposedly kept planeswalkers out of Ravnica during its existence, but several of these personages have been alive since before it was in effect and could remember any pre-Guildpact planeswalker activities (which would have been pre-Mending oldwalkers, too, who had a tendency to be much less subtle). It really only would have taken one incident in the 5,000 pre-Guildpact years of Niv-Mizzet's lifespan for him to have found out about planeswalkers. And even if we're willing to completely rule him out since the stories have explicitly detailed that he doesn't know, that still leaves several major, extremely old, extremely wise people who would likely both know about the multiverse, and also have little to no motivation to keep it a secret.
And that brings me back to my point: it's not that there's no way to believe that planeswalkers are unknown. It's just that given the way the MtG setting has been written, for many planes, it's just very hard to believe it convincingly. Maintaining that conceit puts strain on the stories' narrative plausibility. I think that abandoning it as a general rule would free up the story in significant ways. And it would also allow the idea of secrecy to be a more interesting plot point where it *is* appropriate, such as on a plane that has never had planeswalker activity before we visit it.
So you're saying that in a world where magic happens all the time, and in which the existence of other realities is empirically provable, people would actually be *less* credulous than they are in our world? That's an interesting argument. I don't think that I agree.
You keep starting from the conclusion that they are planeswalkers and working backwards, this is wrong. Because we know they are planeswalkers we can look at the evidence and draw conclusions as to why others would as well, but this is wrong. You need to look at the evidence and imagine what the person viewing this evidence can actually learn from this without assuming they know about other planes or planeswalkers, in fact assuming that the existence of worlds outside of their own clashes with the foundation of their knowledge.
You are stating the existence of other realities is empirically provable; and while that is true, there are countless other explanations, none of which are as ground shattering as the existence of other planes, so jumping to that conclusion is illogical. We have a(several/manymany) worlds in which magic is common and feats that would shock others are common place and yet travel to other planes(worlds) is impossible. So when someone claims they came from another world, you as a resident of this world of magic that can't travel between worlds, would find this claim as ridiculous.
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I think it's getting less and less believable for the existence of planeswalkers to be mostly unknown. There are a lot of planes on which the activity of planeswalkers has been public and dramatic enough that the general populace reasonably ought to know about them.
Ravnica is an especially big case, as somebody really should be wondering where Jace and Gideon go when they're not at work. And I know they did an entire story article about it, but it's still hard for me to buy that Niv Mizzet hasn't worked it out. The same goes perhaps even more so for House Dimir.
I would think that Kaladesh ought to know about them, not so much because of Chandra but because of Dovin Baan, who seems like he would have the motivation to reveal his capabilities to his superiors at the Consulate, and who seemed to think it was no big deal to hire planeswalker help from off-world.
I would think that while Nicol Bolas would probably want to keep Amonkhet ignorant about the existence of other planes, I've been surprised that he apparently didn't leave behind some specific anti-planeswalker indoctrination to deal with interference. As of this week though, it looks like maybe he did after all.
For Theros, belief in other planes wouldn't really be too much of a stretch. Nyx is already basically another universe next door. Plus Theros just doesn't seem like that big of a place. Outsiders would be much more apparent. Then again, Kiora's claim that she was an avatar of Thassa was a pretty plausible cover story.
On Zendikar in the wake of the Eldrazi crisis, I think it's safe to say that pretty much all the remaining survivors have to know about planeswalkers.
Same thing goes for Alara. If Ajani and Elspeth didn't explain to their people what was going on with the Conflux, that would just be a straight-up violation of their duty.
Some other planes are more edge cases, like Kamigawa (Tamiyo's household seems pretty open about it, I don't see why they would feel the need to keep it secret from others), or Innistrad (Sorin very likely wouldn't tell anybody, Tibalt is Tibalt, and any rumor about mysterious travelers from other world would just be another of the many crazy things that some people believe -- but surely somebody really wants to know what that Emrakul business was about). Tarkir probably doesn't know (Narset and Sarkhan have reasons not to tell, and the business between Ugin and Bolas way-back-when probably didn't look much different than any other big ol' dragon fight to everybody on the ground).
New Phyrexia and Dominaria obviously know all about them.
I guess my point is, Wizards doesn't really need to keep up the pretense that most people in most places in the Multiverse don't know about planeswalkers and other planes. It would be more interesting if they saved this story conceit for newly visited planes that specifically don't have any past experience with them. If they quietly retired this trope from most of the current planes, I think it would remove a potential source of broken suspension of disbelief.
I think the reason people don't know about planeswalkers in general is because they don't know about planes. If you could never know that there are planes beyond yours then there's no reason to think that there are people out there that can go between them.
The Zendikari probably know. Probably a substantial portion of Ghirapur knows now. I wouldn't be surprised if part of Return to Ravnica 2; Guild With Avengeance has to do with knowledge of planeswalking getting out there.
Seems like an insane jump to go from "sometimes these people aren't around" to "there are an infinite number of worlds in the cosmos and certain random people have the ability to travel between them". Surely it makes more sense to conclude that they're occasionally busy and not available for their own personal reasons? Like I don't know where Elon Musk is at all times but I'm guessing that's because my spy network is too small not because he's an interdimensional wizard.
Again why would the existence of Nyx lead anyone to conclude that planeswalkers exist. If anything the visible existence of a realm of the gods seems like an immediate explanation for literally anything that could ever happen.
Why? Bant is a world where matters are still settled by people hitting each other. Even if you could explain to them that other planes exist what good would it do them?
Why would anyone on Innistrad think that the presence of a massive inconceivable horror that almost killed them all was anything but ordinary? Emrakul is just the worst demon they've ever encountered.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Kaladesh also didn't know. Some do, like Pia (chandra clearly told her in a scene I wish we'd gotten to see), and Yahenni. But whether Baan has revealed his nature to the Consulate isn't really known, and Baan, just by personality, seems like the kind of guy who's not going to go walking that frequently.
I think on both worlds (and most where its not a common knowledge), there's a lot of high scholars and officials who suspect such a thing, even if its not confirmed, or known to a full extent.
- Amonkhet. Everyone's too young.
- Kaladesh. Planeswalkers are inherently magic users, which is a big no-no.
- Innistrad. Too much on their plate, people probably assume anyone that looks different is some evil horror trying to kill them, and stay away. Nissa looks human enough.
- Zendikar. See above.
I think it's a little dumb that Planeswalkers would seek to hide their identity as a rule. It's like if Superman tried to pull off the Clark Kent persona on the Moon when interacting with the Mooninites. Just... why?
You're an alien and you want to visit Earth because you're either just curious about it or because others of your kind are there and you need to find, aid, or even subdue them. You know that the dominant species of Earth is sapient and intelligent, but you have either very little or no knowledge of their culture(s), customs, etc. You know nothing of their belief system(s) or even if they have any. You look a little bit different than some of them, but you could pretty easily pass yourself off as one and/or conceal those parts of yourself that give away your not being a human. Do you:
(A) Try to blend in and complete your objective as quietly as possible
(B) Flaunt that you're an alien and risk subjecting yourself to (at best) their unending curiosity or (at worst) violence secondary to their fear of the unknown
Look at what Heliod did to Elspeth for an example of why planeswalkers may not be eager to share what they are. I suppose that a religious culture like that of the Therans could react positively to meeting what they may see as a god, but it really could go either way -- and unless the planeswalker in question is all-powerful, s/he may not be able to escape unharmed.
Uhhh... I'd like to phone a friend. His name is Georgio.
For Kaladesh, like I said, the issue is Dovin Baan. He really comes off as the type of guy who doesn't keep secrets. He would want the Consulate to know about planeswalkers.
And yeah Nissa could get away with being "human" on elfless planes just by covering her ears. Hell she could even just say she has big ears. It might get her some strange looks but if I came from a place that didn't know what elves were and I saw Nissa I probably wouldn't consider that she isn't human. Especially on a world like Amonkhet where people have bird, ram, and dog heads.
And Wizards is choosing not to explore that trope, or saving it for some worlds, and it seems the people of the multiverse are very accepting. Nahiri lead a group of cultist and had a "friendship" with Gisa and everyone just figured she was just a very pale human and while Emrakul was the center of attention, people saw both Nissa and Tamiyo sealing and didn't raise too much of a fuss. Heck, Nissa somehow is so beautiful that the all the elves of Lorwyn forgave her lack of horns and hoofed feet.
While you can't explain it on all worlds, the aetherborn have only been around ~60 years on Kaladesh, so seeing Ajani many people could just believe his people come from a far off/unknown part of the plane, Emrakul transformed many things in Innistrad into eldrazi horrors making a new race of monster on Innistrad, "Zendikar did't have vampires until after the eldrazi where sealed", new races have been known to appear.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Yet the average person- in fact, all unsparked- is unthreatening to the average planeswalker. And now that they have their own clique, who would even deign to attack them?
You do come from a plane without elves.
I was being a little bit glib there.
And if I was familiar with humanoid creatures that aren't human I think I'd be quick to assume that something that didn't seem quite human was probably not human.
I don't see why other people would find it hard to believe, though. Let's consider two things:
1. Everyone in the MtG setting does in fact live in a multiverse of planes, with planeswalkers that can travel between them. And every plane that has appeared in the game has had at least some amount of planeswalker activity on it, sometimes quite a bit. In the case of both Ravnica and Kaladesh, figures in the most powerful and public echelons on their governments are planeswalkers. Plus they all live in worlds of powerful and varied magic. Your average person on the street, even if they had never thought about other planes before, would have little difficulty imagining their existence, or accepting evidence for their reality once it was presented to them.
2. I know it's a bit facile (and I don't want to start any arguments about religion), but let's look at our real world for an example. I think we can agree that the vast majority of humans on Earth have not had much direct personal experience with inhuman intelligent entities from other worlds. And yet, the vast majority of humans believe in the existence of such entities, whether they call them angels, bodhisattvas, devas, jinn, gods, voudun, aliens, or what have you. And even those Earth-humans who *don't* believe that such things actually exist still have no trouble *imagining* them, and creating stories about what such things might be like if they were real.
So given that MtG characters live in a world in which the existence of other planes and interplanar travelers is actually empirically provable, and we are in particular looking at the slice of the multiverse in which the most empirical evidence for them exists (because in the story that we're following, planeswalkers are constantly doing important public stuff), doesn't it make the most sense for most people to be aware of planewalkers at least in the abstract?
There is no correlation between the first part of your statement and the second part of your statement. If you live in a world of powerful and varied magic and people can't use this magic to move between worlds then you will have a very hard time believing that others can. The average individual would probably give little thought to whether or not its possible you came from another world because their understanding of such things is limited, but educated individuals would find it harder to believe because they would know its impossible. This is because despite the story being filled with walkers they are incredibly rare.
There is a big difference between our world and the mtg multiverse, and it isn't the existence of magic, though that may be the reason why. Our mythologies are far more varied. On any random plane the amount mythologies/fairytales pales in comparison to a single region on earth, and we have easy access to all of the mythologies on earth. So maybe without the existence of magic humans are more imaginative so we can envision all these things that don't exist. Because they are used everywhere most people have been exposed to at least the concept, but if you talk to someone who has literally never heard of these concepts before they will have a very hard time imagining them.
How about we zero in on Ravnica for a moment, since that seems to be the most controversial (and well-detailed) plane. I'll admit that I haven't read all of the stories, but from a fairly simple gleaning of materials, we know of at least eight planeswalkers who have engaged in significant activity on the plane. Of these, we have long-term residents that include (1) the single most important public figure on the entire planet (Jace Beleren); (2) a major figure in the Izzet (Ral Zarek) who has a proven technological method for tracking planeswalkers; (3) a famous battalion leader in the Boros Legion (Gideon Jura); (4) a legendarily successful assassin (Vraska); and (5) a member of the most uncontrolled and anarchic guild around (Domri Rade). It's also been visited by Liliana Vess, Garruk Wildspeaker in full-blown rampage mode, and Tezzeret, as well as hosting a major cell in the multiplanar Infinite Consortium. And while Jace, Ral, Vraska, and Tezzeret have obvious reasons to conceal their nature from the public (whether external motivations or internal character traits), the same cannot be clearly said for the others. Domri is a particularly hard case to justify, being both a Gruul tribe member and a kid.
Let's call that the "discoverable" side of the coin. Now let's look at the "discovering" side. We've got Niv-Mizzet, a 15,000 year old dragon and possibly the most scientifically intelligent individual in the known multiverse. We've got House Dimir, a whole guild dedicated to discovering secrets. We know that planeswalkers generate a distinctive, trackable energy discontinuity phenomenon every time they enter of leave the plane, and that the technology from Project Lightning Bug can in principle detect it. We've got the Azorius, who would be extremely interested in potential threats to legal stability (such as the Living Guildpact being non-functioning for long stretches of time), and the Boros Legion wondering where the mysterious hero of the Ninth has gotten off to. And of course the Gruul simply asking their brother Domri what his deal is.
Let's also talk about history. in addition to Niv-Mizzet, we also have other extremely ancient and knowledgeable figures, including Szadek, Aurelia, Rakdos, and likely some of the members of the Obzedat. The original Guildpact supposedly kept planeswalkers out of Ravnica during its existence, but several of these personages have been alive since before it was in effect and could remember any pre-Guildpact planeswalker activities (which would have been pre-Mending oldwalkers, too, who had a tendency to be much less subtle). It really only would have taken one incident in the 5,000 pre-Guildpact years of Niv-Mizzet's lifespan for him to have found out about planeswalkers. And even if we're willing to completely rule him out since the stories have explicitly detailed that he doesn't know, that still leaves several major, extremely old, extremely wise people who would likely both know about the multiverse, and also have little to no motivation to keep it a secret.
And that brings me back to my point: it's not that there's no way to believe that planeswalkers are unknown. It's just that given the way the MtG setting has been written, for many planes, it's just very hard to believe it convincingly. Maintaining that conceit puts strain on the stories' narrative plausibility. I think that abandoning it as a general rule would free up the story in significant ways. And it would also allow the idea of secrecy to be a more interesting plot point where it *is* appropriate, such as on a plane that has never had planeswalker activity before we visit it.
You are stating the existence of other realities is empirically provable; and while that is true, there are countless other explanations, none of which are as ground shattering as the existence of other planes, so jumping to that conclusion is illogical. We have a(several/manymany) worlds in which magic is common and feats that would shock others are common place and yet travel to other planes(worlds) is impossible. So when someone claims they came from another world, you as a resident of this world of magic that can't travel between worlds, would find this claim as ridiculous.