I'm sure a lot of people had complained to Wizards about the mess that is Gatewatch personalities, which MaRo obviously would not speak it here.
Maro has been fairly open about the criticism he receives. He is also vocal about how much 'the majority' of players like them. So if they were getting a flood of complaints on the Gatewatch's personalities Maro would talk about it, though probably to explain why they are the way they are rather than to say its a mistake.
Has he ever commented on the lore in the past? As in, story needing improvement or retcon.
Just curious, since I don't follow his blog regularly.
A few times, but not really from a story perspective. He's discussed the retcons of Gideon and Nissa before in the context of their design, that's about it.
A few times, but not really from a story perspective. He's discussed the retcons of Gideon and Nissa before in the context of their design, that's about it.
So he's never said anything about negativity towards the stories.
A few times, but not really from a story perspective. He's discussed the retcons of Gideon and Nissa before in the context of their design, that's about it.
So he's never said anything about negativity towards the stories.
I wouldn't expect him to. It's in his best interest to be positive about everything.
Maro doesn't bring up anything negative on creative very much, (mostly that character X is popular/unpopular and that is why we see them more often/why won't don't see that as much) but I think it because he isn't apart of the creative team anymore. It looks bad if the head of one of the big three departments talks negatively to the public about another departments. He is very open with what mistake design makes and saying he's only talks positive is not true. Just seems like he respects/polite about the other departments of RnD to not say anything negative about them.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
It's not his place to criticize Creative. He doesn't know what's going on in that area as a general rule of thumb. He knows some of it, but not enough to respond to criticism in a helpful manner. Best he can do is be a middle man. But he does say he hears the complaints for things that are related to other departments and passes them on.
I don't really get what people expect from Maro. Yes he's the most easily accessible but he doesn't run WotC. If he did we'd see a lot more Squirrels.
A few times, but not really from a story perspective. He's discussed the retcons of Gideon and Nissa before in the context of their design, that's about it.
So he's never said anything about negativity towards the stories.
He's acknowledged criticisms, but when he does he uses overall data regarding player interest, market research, etc... I don't think we should expect anything beyond that from him. It's not his area and while he has taken it upon himself to be the unofficial face of magic, that doesn't mean he can properly react to or even pass along information he directly takes and receives from players regarding stories.
Well for everyone who was trying to say the Gatewatch aren't going through character development Nissa has become so introspective she had entered into being blue.
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
It makes me wonder if this is story centered or game centered development. It feels more like another Tamiyo moment. They wanted to include Nissa but couldn't really afford more pure Green planeswalker, so they made her Blue/Green instead. I guess we'll see how it turns out, but it still seems jarring.
It makes me wonder if this is story centered or game centered development. It feels more like another Tamiyo moment. They wanted to include Nissa but couldn't really afford more pure Green planeswalker, so they made her Blue/Green instead. I guess we'll see how it turns out, but it still seems jarring.
I hope story. If it was a game centered why make a new walker? Especially since we just got her in Kaladesh, with her now being the most printed gatewatch member since the start of the gatewatch storylines started.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Well for everyone who was trying to say the Gatewatch aren't going through character development Nissa has become so introspective she had entered into being blue.
So, Nissa's gone from a mono-Green Elven supremacists who'd started dabbling in Black (in-story, after having visited Lorwyn, and seen the Elves that essentially ruled there), to a tree-hugging mono-Green not-racist-Elf in time for BfZ, and now she's become an introvert who's starting to drift into Simic territory because "I don't get people".
... I'm still pissed they took away Golgari-Nissa from me.
Well for everyone who was trying to say the Gatewatch aren't going through character development Nissa has become so introspective she had entered into being blue.
Please Wizards, Please!
Make Nissa's characterization and growth reflect this dip into Blue.
Please Wizards, can we get a 'millennials' Nissa, so Jace can realize how ridiculous he can be sometimes?!? Lol!
Nissa dons a teal hood, hovering around Jace "I know sooo many secretss, Hipster loner that I am..." Jace, in annoyance "You know I can read your thoughts right?" Nissa "Sooo misunderstood! Sooo Myssteriousss..."
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Wizards. listen. The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
While I like the fact that Nissa has blue in her now, I can't believe we got ANOTHER Nissa.. In the last 5 blocks, she's been in 4 of them if I'm recalling right, and that doesn't even include her planeswalker deck... Hopefully they have a GOOD reason as to why she's in this block, the fact we know that Amonkhet only has 3 planeswalkers and all 3 are Gatewatch really pisses me off... Doesn't help my already dislike of the group
Plus, has anyone noticed on Blogatog that MaRo says that the Gatewatch has mixed reviews..? I've seen a few people who do really enjoy them, including some of the people asking him questions, but... other than those few people and a couple on the forums, I literally know no one (at all, in real life) who enjoy's the Gatewatch
I know people who enjoy the characters in it (I like Lily and Nissa, for example!), but the concept and the exhausting repetitive-ness is only worsening everyone's opinion :/
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EDH: Bruna, Light of Alabaster | Karlov of the Ghost Council | Breya, Etherium Shaper | Marchesa, the Black Rose | Queen Marchesa | The Mimeoplasm | Avacyn, Angel of Hope |
Pauper:
Orzhov Nightsky Mimic
Frequent lurker and vorthos player
I mean, the argument for a new Nissa being so soon still applies with it being story centered. We could have gone a block or two and been introduced to Blue/Green Nissa, especially if there is a good gap after Amonkhet and whatever comes next.
As for why no new Planeswalker, might just not be a good place for one. Doesn't seem like the plane that would push a Simic out.
While I like the fact that Nissa has blue in her now, I can't believe we got ANOTHER Nissa.. In the last 5 blocks, she's been in 4 of them if I'm recalling right, and that doesn't even include her planeswalker deck... Hopefully they have a GOOD reason as to why she's in this block, the fact we know that Amonkhet only has 3 planeswalkers and all 3 are Gatewatch really pisses me off... Doesn't help my already dislike of the group
Plus, has anyone noticed on Blogatog that MaRo says that the Gatewatch has mixed reviews..? I've seen a few people who do really enjoy them, including some of the people asking him questions, but... other than those few people and a couple on the forums, I literally know no one (at all, in real life) who enjoy's the Gatewatch
I know people who enjoy the characters in it (I like Lily and Nissa, for example!), but the concept and the exhausting repetitive-ness is only worsening everyone's opinion :/
I like the Gatewatch.
I also like non-Gatewatch characters and Planeswalkers. I think it'll get better as more join the organization and as they branch out abit In the story so as to not create fatigue.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Wizards. listen. The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
While I like the fact that Nissa has blue in her now, I can't believe we got ANOTHER Nissa.. In the last 5 blocks, she's been in 4 of them if I'm recalling right, and that doesn't even include her planeswalker deck... Hopefully they have a GOOD reason as to why she's in this block, the fact we know that Amonkhet only has 3 planeswalkers and all 3 are Gatewatch really pisses me off... Doesn't help my already dislike of the group
Plus, has anyone noticed on Blogatog that MaRo says that the Gatewatch has mixed reviews..? I've seen a few people who do really enjoy them, including some of the people asking him questions, but... other than those few people and a couple on the forums, I literally know no one (at all, in real life) who enjoy's the Gatewatch
I know people who enjoy the characters in it (I like Lily and Nissa, for example!), but the concept and the exhausting repetitive-ness is only worsening everyone's opinion :/
The most vocal people are those who unhappy/have things to criticize, with MTGS attracting the most vocal. From being on here, tumblr, playing and talking to people in my home town and college town most options are mixed based on the characters, but many love the idea of a group of planeswalkers as the main leads.
I mean, the argument for a new Nissa being so soon still applies with it being story centered. We could have gone a block or two and been introduced to Blue/Green Nissa, especially if there is a good gap after Amonkhet and whatever comes next.
Yeah thats kinda of what I mean. She could have been left out of Kaladesh (Ajani could have been the "green" walker of the block) and then surprised us
As for why no new Planeswalker, might just not be a good place for one. Doesn't seem like the plane that would push a Simic out.
You could have a cleric/druid person who is aligned with the Luxa rive or a wanna-be worth who strives to better himself with physical strength/growth to go through the trails. Storyline reason they could even wait to have sparked until the end of the story, much like how Ob was still a legendary creature until the end of the sets storyline.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
While I like the fact that Nissa has blue in her now, I can't believe we got ANOTHER Nissa.. In the last 5 blocks, she's been in 4 of them if I'm recalling right, and that doesn't even include her planeswalker deck... Hopefully they have a GOOD reason as to why she's in this block, the fact we know that Amonkhet only has 3 planeswalkers and all 3 are Gatewatch really pisses me off... Doesn't help my already dislike of the group
Plus, has anyone noticed on Blogatog that MaRo says that the Gatewatch has mixed reviews..? I've seen a few people who do really enjoy them, including some of the people asking him questions, but... other than those few people and a couple on the forums, I literally know no one (at all, in real life) who enjoy's the Gatewatch
I know people who enjoy the characters in it (I like Lily and Nissa, for example!), but the concept and the exhausting repetitive-ness is only worsening everyone's opinion :/
The most vocal people are those who unhappy/have things to criticize, with MTGS attracting the most vocal. From being on here, tumblr, playing and talking to people in my home town and college town most options are mixed based on the characters, but many love the idea of a group of planeswalkers as the main leads.
Definitely a fair argument, but I definitely think it varies from place to place. Where I live, no one I know likes the idea of the Gatewatch, and the same goes for the surrounding areas near where I live It definitely makes for an interesting conversation though
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EDH: Bruna, Light of Alabaster | Karlov of the Ghost Council | Breya, Etherium Shaper | Marchesa, the Black Rose | Queen Marchesa | The Mimeoplasm | Avacyn, Angel of Hope |
Pauper:
Orzhov Nightsky Mimic
Frequent lurker and vorthos player
Definitely a fair argument, but I definitely think it varies from place to place. Where I live, no one I know likes the idea of the Gatewatch, and the same goes for the surrounding areas near where I live It definitely makes for an interesting conversation though
Just to clarify do they dislike the idea or how it has been executed (which includes which members are in it)?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I'm sure a lot of people had complained to Wizards about the mess that is Gatewatch personalities, which MaRo obviously would not speak it here.
Maro has been fairly open about the criticism he receives. He is also vocal about how much 'the majority' of players like them. So if they were getting a flood of complaints on the Gatewatch's personalities Maro would talk about it, though probably to explain why they are the way they are rather than to say its a mistake.
There's no way Maro would come out and openly say that. Maybe in 5 years. But not now.
The more stories she's in the more Nissa becomes my favorite Green-centered walker. Granted her only competition is Ajani for me, but I'm liking her more.
The more stories she's in the more Nissa becomes my favorite Green-centered walker. Granted her only competition is Ajani for me, but I'm liking her more.
Ajani isn't green centered, though. He is white centered. Or do you mean the only competition Nissa has in terms of planeswalkers in your eyes is Ajani since he is the only one you like? Man, English is complicated.
The second. Ajani is the closest thing to a Green Planeswalker I like that isn't Nissa. I definitely know he isn't Green-centered, I just kind of joined two thoughts "Nissa is my favorite Green centered Planeswalker" and "Ajani is the only Green (in part) Planeswalker who could challenge that" together.
Seeing Bontu and Gideon's conversation today had me thinking further about the whole Gatewatch franchise.
I remember someone pointed it out that it's unfortunate that current trend is having the Gatewatch traveling to different planes and impose their ways, instead of players seeing the different cultures and people on each plane as a separated entity. It's too much of a superhero cliche, where a powerful individual injects his/her presence into a society and proceed to interfere, rather than having the outstanding individuals of that particular community rise up WITHIN the code of their world.
Imagine, if a group of gunners go to a school basketball game and found out the referees were cheating, instead of reporting it to the athletic department they proceeded to break the game and arrest the referees by force. Dirty deeds were stopped, but the school is left to pick up the pieces.
Now, I'm not suggesting the Amonkhet is anywhere pure (not anymore), nor saying Gatewatch is a group of evildoers, but there's something fundamentally wrong with the mentality of heroes doing things their way regardless of circumstances, it's very martial and domineering, not to mention corruptible. Imagine if the Gatewatch is a group of pre-mending PWs, how much world would get to preserve their vista after Gatewatch arrives? This is the kind of things made me wish Prime Directive is followed faithfully.
Thus far the Gatewatch has ultimate excuses for their actions, i.e., universal threats like Eldrazi, Bolas, and perhaps Phyrexians in the future, but they really need to be careful about their footprints. Good intention is fully capable of causing just as much harms as the wrong ones, if not more. Admittedly these kind of flaws made the Gatewatch more human, fitting for their young persona, I wish Liliana and Ajani step in more in the future and lecture the runts about brash behaviors.
They're going to survive Bolas. And I think, generally, that they are only going to come in due to interplanar threats. Or at least that's what Jace said originally. He wasn't going to get involved in Kaladesh until Chandra ran there. I'm hoping for future Gatewatch stuff the only time the entire team will get involved is interplanar stuff, personal motivations might have one or two people go along but not the whole team.
Even on Kaladesh they didn't get involved until the extra-planar threat (Tezzeret) made himself known. Jace and Gideon were going to do their own thing (paperwork and weights?) while the girls were out but Tezz is apparently a major threat.
Isn't Jace's story in BfZ-block basically summed up as rejecting Ugin's advice and acting recklessly instead?
More along the lines of following his advise and then that all goes to heck and he goes with the reckless untested theory that could kill them all. So not really reject.
I can't stand the gatewatch, not because they are all superman, but rather because they are the weatherlight crew, only on steroids, and not nearly as intresting. Gerrard was probably the least intresting member of the weatherlight, had very few cards that were directly related to him, but I still know more about him then I care to know about his Planeswalker counterpart, Giddeon. Erritai was fun, he was a bit of a prankster, compare him to Jace who's .... dull at best. Mirri compared to Nissa? Squee vs. Chandra... shall I go on. And, we've already spent more time with the gatewatch then the weatherlight crew, and the weatherlight characters feel far more defined.
A few times, but not really from a story perspective. He's discussed the retcons of Gideon and Nissa before in the context of their design, that's about it.
So he's never said anything about negativity towards the stories.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Maro doesn't bring up anything negative on creative very much, (mostly that character X is popular/unpopular and that is why we see them more often/why won't don't see that as much) but I think it because he isn't apart of the creative team anymore. It looks bad if the head of one of the big three departments talks negatively to the public about another departments. He is very open with what mistake design makes and saying he's only talks positive is not true. Just seems like he respects/polite about the other departments of RnD to not say anything negative about them.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I don't really get what people expect from Maro. Yes he's the most easily accessible but he doesn't run WotC. If he did we'd see a lot more Squirrels.
He's acknowledged criticisms, but when he does he uses overall data regarding player interest, market research, etc... I don't think we should expect anything beyond that from him. It's not his area and while he has taken it upon himself to be the unofficial face of magic, that doesn't mean he can properly react to or even pass along information he directly takes and receives from players regarding stories.
https://twitter.com/MTGAlison/status/851812060136472576
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I hope story. If it was a game centered why make a new walker? Especially since we just got her in Kaladesh, with her now being the most printed gatewatch member since the start of the gatewatch storylines started.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
So, Nissa's gone from a mono-Green Elven supremacists who'd started dabbling in Black (in-story, after having visited Lorwyn, and seen the Elves that essentially ruled there), to a tree-hugging mono-Green not-racist-Elf in time for BfZ, and now she's become an introvert who's starting to drift into Simic territory because "I don't get people".
... I'm still pissed they took away Golgari-Nissa from me.
Please Wizards, Please!
Make Nissa's characterization and growth reflect this dip into Blue.
Please Wizards, can we get a 'millennials' Nissa, so Jace can realize how ridiculous he can be sometimes?!? Lol!
Nissa dons a teal hood, hovering around Jace "I know sooo many secretss, Hipster loner that I am..."
Jace, in annoyance "You know I can read your thoughts right?"
Nissa "Sooo misunderstood! Sooo Myssteriousss..."
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
Plus, has anyone noticed on Blogatog that MaRo says that the Gatewatch has mixed reviews..? I've seen a few people who do really enjoy them, including some of the people asking him questions, but... other than those few people and a couple on the forums, I literally know no one (at all, in real life) who enjoy's the Gatewatch
I know people who enjoy the characters in it (I like Lily and Nissa, for example!), but the concept and the exhausting repetitive-ness is only worsening everyone's opinion :/
Bruna, Light of Alabaster | Karlov of the Ghost Council | Breya, Etherium Shaper | Marchesa, the Black Rose | Queen Marchesa | The Mimeoplasm | Avacyn, Angel of Hope |
Pauper:
Orzhov Nightsky Mimic
Frequent lurker and vorthos player
As for why no new Planeswalker, might just not be a good place for one. Doesn't seem like the plane that would push a Simic out.
I like the Gatewatch.
I also like non-Gatewatch characters and Planeswalkers. I think it'll get better as more join the organization and as they branch out abit In the story so as to not create fatigue.
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
The most vocal people are those who unhappy/have things to criticize, with MTGS attracting the most vocal. From being on here, tumblr, playing and talking to people in my home town and college town most options are mixed based on the characters, but many love the idea of a group of planeswalkers as the main leads.
Yeah thats kinda of what I mean. She could have been left out of Kaladesh (Ajani could have been the "green" walker of the block) and then surprised us
You could have a cleric/druid person who is aligned with the Luxa rive or a wanna-be worth who strives to better himself with physical strength/growth to go through the trails. Storyline reason they could even wait to have sparked until the end of the story, much like how Ob was still a legendary creature until the end of the sets storyline.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Definitely a fair argument, but I definitely think it varies from place to place. Where I live, no one I know likes the idea of the Gatewatch, and the same goes for the surrounding areas near where I live It definitely makes for an interesting conversation though
Bruna, Light of Alabaster | Karlov of the Ghost Council | Breya, Etherium Shaper | Marchesa, the Black Rose | Queen Marchesa | The Mimeoplasm | Avacyn, Angel of Hope |
Pauper:
Orzhov Nightsky Mimic
Frequent lurker and vorthos player
Just to clarify do they dislike the idea or how it has been executed (which includes which members are in it)?
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
There's no way Maro would come out and openly say that. Maybe in 5 years. But not now.
The second. Ajani is the closest thing to a Green Planeswalker I like that isn't Nissa. I definitely know he isn't Green-centered, I just kind of joined two thoughts "Nissa is my favorite Green centered Planeswalker" and "Ajani is the only Green (in part) Planeswalker who could challenge that" together.
I remember someone pointed it out that it's unfortunate that current trend is having the Gatewatch traveling to different planes and impose their ways, instead of players seeing the different cultures and people on each plane as a separated entity. It's too much of a superhero cliche, where a powerful individual injects his/her presence into a society and proceed to interfere, rather than having the outstanding individuals of that particular community rise up WITHIN the code of their world.
Imagine, if a group of gunners go to a school basketball game and found out the referees were cheating, instead of reporting it to the athletic department they proceeded to break the game and arrest the referees by force. Dirty deeds were stopped, but the school is left to pick up the pieces.
Now, I'm not suggesting the Amonkhet is anywhere pure (not anymore), nor saying Gatewatch is a group of evildoers, but there's something fundamentally wrong with the mentality of heroes doing things their way regardless of circumstances, it's very martial and domineering, not to mention corruptible. Imagine if the Gatewatch is a group of pre-mending PWs, how much world would get to preserve their vista after Gatewatch arrives? This is the kind of things made me wish Prime Directive is followed faithfully.
Thus far the Gatewatch has ultimate excuses for their actions, i.e., universal threats like Eldrazi, Bolas, and perhaps Phyrexians in the future, but they really need to be careful about their footprints. Good intention is fully capable of causing just as much harms as the wrong ones, if not more. Admittedly these kind of flaws made the Gatewatch more human, fitting for their young persona, I wish Liliana and Ajani step in more in the future and lecture the runts about brash behaviors.
If they survive Bolas.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Isn't Jace's story in BfZ-block basically summed up as rejecting Ugin's advice and acting recklessly instead?
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
Behind the eyes of truth, is a world of illustions.
Dragon Riderof a Mist Dragonn anyway with the Dragon Riders Clan.