Edited twice, because a post wasn't showing up and I thought it was deleted:
I think you got confused at some point, and its about when you asked why they no longer publish novels if the story was so popular. The thing we have been saying is that it wasn't, but it has been increasing in popularity ever since the company started posting stories online. I actually don't disagree much with a lot of the things you said, its just that you ought to keep better track with what is being disputed. Older novels did indeed follow a structure I think you would approve of, and older characters had better story arcs with growth and everything. At some point, they stopped selling well enough for the company to think it worth continuing to publish novels, assuming that they were ever that popular. And if they did start publishing them again, they would probably start with ebooks like Godsend before touching print media so as to not have to compete for shelf space at bookstores like they did before.
I don't think it's fair to compare WotC to Games Workshop. Wotc seems to actually care about its players.
Okay, I have to admit I actually laughed at that. I understand what you mean, but that was the old Games Workshop; it's under new management now, and it really shows.
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"For the sake of Hasbro's half-year financial report, we will keep watch."
-- The Gatewatch
I don't think it's fair to compare WotC to Games Workshop. Wotc seems to actually care about its players.
Okay, I have to admit I actually laughed at that. I understand what you mean, but that was the old Games Workshop; it's under new management now, and it really shows.
I don't want to detract from the conversation but......the current End Times bull***** going on in 40k and the End Times of WH Fantasy shows that GW has absolutely no concern for what the players want or care about.
WotC for all its failings with the story is obviously trying and it really does not feel like a cash grab a la Games Workshop. There may be issues with how stories are told, transparency with the writers, Doug being infinitely worse than Brady (yawgmoth bless him), sort of pandering stories, BUT in spite of all the problems WotC is still excellent at worldbuilding and damn good at storytelling a decent portion of the time. And for a fantasy setting based on a bloody card game I think we're doing damn well.
Edited twice, because a post wasn't showing up and I thought it was deleted:
I think you got confused at some point, and its about when you asked why they no longer publish novels if the story was so popular. The thing we have been saying is that it wasn't, but it has been increasing in popularity ever since the company started posting stories online. I actually don't disagree much with a lot of the things you said, its just that you ought to keep better track with what is being disputed. Older novels did indeed follow a structure I think you would approve of, and older characters had better story arcs with growth and everything. At some point, they stopped selling well enough for the company to think it worth continuing to publish novels, assuming that they were ever that popular. And if they did start publishing them again, they would probably start with ebooks like Godsend before touching print media so as to not have to compete for shelf space at bookstores like they did before.
No, O Formless One, it is you, not I, who is confused. Your point was indeed that MTG's story is growing in popularity. However, my point was that the game has also increased massively in popularity, and that by the looks of things, interest in the story hasn't increased in line with this (i.e. the ratio of MTG players to Vorthoses does not *appear* to have narrowed as much as you suggest).
But let's have some fun: let's assume you are right, and that it is the serial format that is "increasing the story's popularity". Why then is it still lagging massively behind the Horus Heresy, which now stands at 50+ books, all of which have sold like crack? The Horus Heresy was never told in serialised form -- it is successful because it is a richly told story that captured players' hearts. Format is always secondary; a good story will sell no matter how it is told.
Thus, the Brothers' War failed because it is simply not as compelling as the Horus Heresy, for various reasons. Telling it in serialised form would not have saved it. In fact, serialising it would only have hurt it, because serialisations have a tighter timescale and are required to fit an oscillating arc of cliffhangers and resolutions, which is anathema to character development and extremely hard to do without descending into farce.
Another mistake you make is your assumption that the increasing popularity of MTG's story is a sign that it is in a good place. What if only one person reads the story today, and then next year two people read it? In such a case, the story is increasing in popularity. That doesn't mean it doesn't have acres of room for improvement.
(I have to ask everyone to leave me out of further discussions, as I won't have time to reply.)
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"For the sake of Hasbro's half-year financial report, we will keep watch."
-- The Gatewatch
I don't think it's fair to compare WotC to Games Workshop. Wotc seems to actually care about its players.
Okay, I have to admit I actually laughed at that. I understand what you mean, but that was the old Games Workshop; it's under new management now, and it really shows.
I don't want to detract from the conversation but......the current End Times bull***** going on in 40k and the End Times of WH Fantasy shows that GW has absolutely no concern for what the players want or care about.
WotC for all its failings with the story is obviously trying and it really does not feel like a cash grab a la Games Workshop. There may be issues with how stories are told, transparency with the writers, Doug being infinitely worse than Brady (yawgmoth bless him), sort of pandering stories, BUT in spite of all the problems WotC is still excellent at worldbuilding and damn good at storytelling a decent portion of the time. And for a fantasy setting based on a bloody card game I think we're doing damn well.
I think WOTC and GW both have their advantages. They would each do so well to learn from the other.
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"For the sake of Hasbro's half-year financial report, we will keep watch."
-- The Gatewatch
Another thing to consider is that Wizards has to follow high-level direction from Hasbro, its parent company. Games Workshop does not.
Even if someone or multiple people at Wizards thought Bhogal83's suggestions had merit, they may be constrained by what Hasbro's management is dictating or what Hasbro's financial goals are.
If I recall, for a long while, in Hasbro's 10K reports, Wizards's primary revenue comes from the MTG card game. I can't speak for Hasbro's motivations, but I speculate that Hasbro may feel that investing money into the creation of a story-building publishing operation for MTG isn't worth the time and money as it is to sell MTG cards.
Another thing to consider is that Wizards has to follow high-level direction from Hasbro, its parent company. Games Workshop does not.
Even if someone or multiple people at Wizards thought Bhogal83's suggestions had merit, they may be constrained by what Hasbro's management is dictating or what Hasbro's financial goals are.
If I recall, for a long while, in Hasbro's 10K reports, Wizards's primary revenue comes from the MTG card game. I can't speak for Hasbro's motivations, but I speculate that Hasbro may feel that investing money into the creation of a story-building publishing operation for MTG isn't worth the time and money as it is to sell MTG cards.
That's what I meant when I said corporate suits took power. Wizards is no longer a creative company, but a financial entity asked to make profit (I know both aren't incompatible and you can't keep losing money, but there's a balance to strike). Just look at the embarrassing replies on Rosewater's blog whenever somebody asks "why don't we do X or come back to Y" - the answer is always the same: "Market research shows it wasn't popular". You can't be more boardroom than this. And with Standard finally waning in popularity, don't expect too much investment in ancillary things like storyline to rise.
For Commander 2015, in addition to info on each commander, gave us two full stories related to the commanders.
They did? I don't recall seeing more than a paragraph for each one on the product information. Where can we read more?
Major story disappointments have existed well before skipping C16 stories... just like they skipped every other years? Seriously, links or it didn't happen.
I think the fact that the story has substantially become less disappointing by pointing to the fact that this thread exists in the first place. Wizards has always had middling writing.
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Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I think I was more disappointed in the fact that we were told something else was coming and instead just got 4 weeks of Kaladesh summarized in a different way. The summaries of each commander were nice but it would be cool to get a story from the aftermath of Eldritch Moon; and another update on Ravnica, perhaps from the perspective of Lavinia in Jace's absence.
I think the gap would work better between blocks, this has killed any momentum I felt for the story.
I understand this is free, but Wizarads does want us to tell them what we like and don't like. Just because it is free, doesn't mean we need to like it.
Are people still having expectations in the storyline? It is now exactly where the corporate suits and popular guys like Rosewater want it to be: a teenage mass-friendly buddy-movie blurb.
The "geek for geeks" ship has sailed. It's now all about mass consumption, so it needs to be basic and corresponding to commonly anticipated tropes.
Agreed. You can clearly see someone from above said: ''Hey guys, that Marvel universe sure is popular nowadays. Make something like that. You know, with superheroes and one-liners and stuff. Kids really love it''.
Ok, this thread is definitely in danger of becoming an(other) echo chamber for people who don't like the direction of the story these days. Let me say this much: According to Rosewater (the evil financial executive apparently) the story never garnered as much attention as today. That's understandable, it's much more accessible than it was when it was published as novels. The quality of the story took a dip in BFZ but since then it has continually improved. Character growth has already set in, the Gatewatch has become much more of an interesting group with the addition of Liliana in my opinion, legendary creatures are getting their chances to shine (the problem is and always will be that those are limited to one world and can't be protagonists for longer than the block being set on this plane (except for a few short stories inbetween)) and I actually enjoy to finally have a continuous storyline again. And yes, such continuity needs protagonists which can be on multiple planes of Magics setting aka planeswalkers. The Gatewatch was therefore a good idea, whether it was "inspired" by the Avengers or super heroes in general or not. Those are after all also not bad stories. And there were quite a few really good story articles in the last year or so, so why shouldn't I keep my hopes up about the storyline? Of course the story isn't perfect in any sense of the word and it's not high literature (then again, it never was) and the lack of Commander stories was very disappointing, but in my opinion it is at this time close to being on par with the Weatherlight saga (which had huge problems too or need I remind anyone of Prophecy or parts of the Invasion block?). If the current story trend isn't your cup of tea I understand that, but that's in no way an objective assessment on your part and you shouldn't treat it as such.
My opinion of the story changes pretty much with every single story so my comments here are mostly about the things that erk me the most. I think that the story suffers not because it's trying to be the Avenger but because it pretty much took the same route DC did to try and bring it about. If Marvel had just released the Avengers at the beginning it would have tanked majorly. They took years creating movies and characters that you care about on their own before they dove them all in together. The only member of the Gatewatch that I feel we have been allowed to sit in their shoes a substantial amount of time is Jace who frankly is a majorly polarized character. People either hate him and want him to die or they see him as the pinnacle Magic character. Liliana and Chandra have had their fare share of time in the spotlight, but I think if you put that time together you still wouldn't have a complete novel/movie. Gideon and Nissa have probably had the least amount of time in the spotlight. I think if they wanted to go the Gatewatch route it wouldn't have felt like such a shock if we weren't given the small weekly snippet during Origins to get some time with the characters. I think that each of the gatewatch should have either been the face of a block before they formed the Gatewatch or they should have chosen planeswalkers with already immense popularity to be members. It saddens me because I actually like Gideon, but I think they could have had the White aligned walker be Ajani or Elspeth as they have only showcased Gideon as a leader/fighter rather than an actual person. If they had done Theros 2 before the formation I bet Elspeth would have been a much more comfortable fit because we have gotten to spend three blocks with her and known about her loves and her hopes. Now Chandra to me can be a little abrasive and obnoxious and it's really hard for me to care about her. The only red aligned walker that has a lot of time dedicated to them is Sarkhan who I don't know if he would have been any better of a choice but a more interesting one (I love him even though most of the time he's just yelling DRAGONS!). Liliana I think is probably the most interesting Gatewatch member as there is a part of me that thinks she's either going to betray all of them or that she may surpass her selfish nature(or a mixture of both). Nissa is hard for me because a part of me wants to like her too but for the most part the writers have made her such an introverted character that like the story my opinion changes on her importance every story. I have no problems with their being a group of planeswalkers going around and doing good, but we need to love the characters just as much alone as we do when they are together and so far we have been given a very mixed bag.
I think if you put that time together(chandra's and lilliana's) you still wouldn't have a complete novel/movie
Chandra actually got her very own novel so this is a weird thought to have.
they should have chosen planeswalkers with already immense popularity to be members
What makes you think they didn't? Maybe not all of them but why do you think most of them weren't the most popular for their color?
I think that both Elspeth and Ajani are more popular than Gideon (again which makes me sad because I like Gideon and think they have done didely squate with him). Elspeth wasn't chosen cuz she was dead and Ajani is no longer mono-colored and Wizards doesn't think their audience connects to anthropamorphized characters. I also think that Garruk is more popular than Nissa and they added Lilliana to the Gatewatch and she has done more unforgivable things than Garruck has. I'm mostly gaging their popularity by my observations on the rumor mill and Blogatog(and my own opinions of course). Again Chandra isn't my cup of tea and I mean no offense if she is yours and admittedly I have forgotten about that novel. I just feel that the character development is uneven. I feel like I got to know Tamiyo more than Gideon, Nissa or even Jace. We know that she has a family that she collects stories she has friends all among the multiverse. I can't really think of learning anything about the main cast beyond what they can do that we didn't learn in the Origins stories.
They moved Ajani out of mono-white because they wanted to cut the number of mono-white walkers, they could have done the same to Gideon, though to red not green, but something made them choose Gideon over Ajani for the Gatewatch and if it isn't popularity then who knows, but they are the only ones who would know. Its fine that you 'think' the others aren't as popular but Wizards makes these decisions with the actual data so its possible they didn't choose the 5 more popular mono-color walkers but that seems incredibly unlikely. Personally each of the Gatewatch members falls into the bottom half on favorite planeswalkers but I doubt that my thoughts are in the majority.
Again I'm basing this on my observations. Most buzz that I've seen on the internet on the gatewatch has been negative. And regardless if their data indicates that they are the best candidates it's a mute point if the characters don't develop.
Again I'm basing this on my observations. Most buzz that I've seen on the internet on the gatewatch has been negative. And regardless if their data indicates that they are the best candidates it's a mute point if the characters don't develop.
Always remember that people with negative reactions tend to be louder than people with positive reactions even though they are in a minority in reality. They also tend to flock to the internet to vent their frustration with likeminded people, which creates echo chambers for their own opinion. At the end of the day, even though something is very popular, looking at "internet buzz" as your only source will give you a horribly warped, negative perspective of it. Sadly that's not only true for card games...
And the Gatewatch story is still at it's beginning. I don't agree that the characters didn't develop but even if I did there is still much time for creative to get the hang of it.
I don't think it's fair to compare WotC to Games Workshop. Wotc seems to actually care about its players.
Okay, I have to admit I actually laughed at that. I understand what you mean, but that was the old Games Workshop; it's under new management now, and it really shows.
I tend to agree with the first statement and disagree with the second half about wizards caring about the players. They haven't really done much for players ever since return to ravnica resulted in the massive boom of players that got them started on the war path. As far as stories go, Wizards primary issue is that they want planeswalkers to be this all amazing singularity of player interest, but they are running them like a toy series from the 80s and 90s. Basically, the character and card are made first, and then they write up some story to support the character and have to try and stuff that guy onto whatever plane / set they are supporting. If they were made as a result of someone writing up a story and it taking off, then PWs would be a lot more popular than they actually are right now.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Again I'm basing this on my observations. Most buzz that I've seen on the internet on the gatewatch has been negative. And regardless if their data indicates that they are the best candidates it's a mute point if the characters don't develop.
Always remember that people with negative reactions tend to be louder than people with positive reactions even though they are in a minority in reality. They also tend to flock to the internet to vent their frustration with likeminded people, which creates echo chambers for their own opinion. At the end of the day, even though something is very popular, looking at "internet buzz" as your only source will give you a horribly warped, negative perspective of it. Sadly that's not only true for card games...
And the Gatewatch story is still at it's beginning. I don't agree that the characters didn't develop but even if I did there is still much time for creative to get the hang of it.
Yeah but lets take Jace for example. He was supposed to be the face of the Shadows over Innistrad we spent quite a bit of time with him during that block and I learned nothing new about him that I didn't know before the block began. The two characters who I think they developed the most were Tamiyo and Emerakul and they aren't members of the gatewatch. I just think if they want this to be a story driven franchise they have to have characters that are evolving that make me want to read next weeks story. They should have either given the spots to characters who have had development and continued to develop them or they should have given them each a block to be the star so that we could get to know them.
Again I'm basing this on my observations. Most buzz that I've seen on the internet on the gatewatch has been negative. And regardless if their data indicates that they are the best candidates it's a mute point if the characters don't develop.
Always remember that people with negative reactions tend to be louder than people with positive reactions even though they are in a minority in reality. They also tend to flock to the internet to vent their frustration with likeminded people, which creates echo chambers for their own opinion. At the end of the day, even though something is very popular, looking at "internet buzz" as your only source will give you a horribly warped, negative perspective of it. Sadly that's not only true for card games...
And the Gatewatch story is still at it's beginning. I don't agree that the characters didn't develop but even if I did there is still much time for creative to get the hang of it.
Yeah but lets take Jace for example. He was supposed to be the face of the Shadows over Innistrad we spent quite a bit of time with him during that block and I learned nothing new about him that I didn't know before the block began. The two characters who I think they developed the most were Tamiyo and Emerakul and they aren't members of the gatewatch. I just think if they want this to be a story driven franchise they have to have characters that are evolving that make me want to read next weeks story. They should have either given the spots to characters who have had development and continued to develop them or they should have given them each a block to be the star so that we could get to know them.
Well first of all we actually did get character developement for Jace long before Shadows already: Agents of Artifice, The Secretist and his Origin story gave as pretty much all the insight (and quite a few changes) to his character needed to establish him and his developement. He had slight developement in BFZ of becoming more proactive (in the storyline about Garruks corruption for example he send someomne else to deal with him at first) and even his relationships with Gideon, Nissa and first and foremost Liliana were deepened throughout this and SOIs storyline. SOI also gave us crazy Jace and I don't know about you, I found it enjoyable and horrifying how easy it was for him to lose himself, something he had to admit in EMN as well (when we learn that he at least devised some kind of contingency plan for this situation in case it happened again). I count all of this as "developement" the Agents of Artifice Jace would certainly not act the same way the Kaladesh Jace does in my opinion. The same is true for most of the Gatewatch, with Chandra and sadly Gideon being the weak links, but I hope to see their characters develope further in Kaladesh (which might be the last chance for Chandra, though Gideon shows promise in the latest story).
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I think you got confused at some point, and its about when you asked why they no longer publish novels if the story was so popular. The thing we have been saying is that it wasn't, but it has been increasing in popularity ever since the company started posting stories online. I actually don't disagree much with a lot of the things you said, its just that you ought to keep better track with what is being disputed. Older novels did indeed follow a structure I think you would approve of, and older characters had better story arcs with growth and everything. At some point, they stopped selling well enough for the company to think it worth continuing to publish novels, assuming that they were ever that popular. And if they did start publishing them again, they would probably start with ebooks like Godsend before touching print media so as to not have to compete for shelf space at bookstores like they did before.
Okay, I have to admit I actually laughed at that. I understand what you mean, but that was the old Games Workshop; it's under new management now, and it really shows.
-- The Gatewatch
I don't want to detract from the conversation but......the current End Times bull***** going on in 40k and the End Times of WH Fantasy shows that GW has absolutely no concern for what the players want or care about.
WotC for all its failings with the story is obviously trying and it really does not feel like a cash grab a la Games Workshop. There may be issues with how stories are told, transparency with the writers, Doug being infinitely worse than Brady (yawgmoth bless him), sort of pandering stories, BUT in spite of all the problems WotC is still excellent at worldbuilding and damn good at storytelling a decent portion of the time. And for a fantasy setting based on a bloody card game I think we're doing damn well.
No, O Formless One, it is you, not I, who is confused. Your point was indeed that MTG's story is growing in popularity. However, my point was that the game has also increased massively in popularity, and that by the looks of things, interest in the story hasn't increased in line with this (i.e. the ratio of MTG players to Vorthoses does not *appear* to have narrowed as much as you suggest).
But let's have some fun: let's assume you are right, and that it is the serial format that is "increasing the story's popularity". Why then is it still lagging massively behind the Horus Heresy, which now stands at 50+ books, all of which have sold like crack? The Horus Heresy was never told in serialised form -- it is successful because it is a richly told story that captured players' hearts. Format is always secondary; a good story will sell no matter how it is told.
Thus, the Brothers' War failed because it is simply not as compelling as the Horus Heresy, for various reasons. Telling it in serialised form would not have saved it. In fact, serialising it would only have hurt it, because serialisations have a tighter timescale and are required to fit an oscillating arc of cliffhangers and resolutions, which is anathema to character development and extremely hard to do without descending into farce.
Another mistake you make is your assumption that the increasing popularity of MTG's story is a sign that it is in a good place. What if only one person reads the story today, and then next year two people read it? In such a case, the story is increasing in popularity. That doesn't mean it doesn't have acres of room for improvement.
(I have to ask everyone to leave me out of further discussions, as I won't have time to reply.)
-- The Gatewatch
I think WOTC and GW both have their advantages. They would each do so well to learn from the other.
-- The Gatewatch
Even if someone or multiple people at Wizards thought Bhogal83's suggestions had merit, they may be constrained by what Hasbro's management is dictating or what Hasbro's financial goals are.
If I recall, for a long while, in Hasbro's 10K reports, Wizards's primary revenue comes from the MTG card game. I can't speak for Hasbro's motivations, but I speculate that Hasbro may feel that investing money into the creation of a story-building publishing operation for MTG isn't worth the time and money as it is to sell MTG cards.
There's a lot of stuff that's possible to be written from the old lore without even touching the Gatewatch.
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<a href="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-lists/588020-unpowered-themed-enchantment-an-enchanted-evening">An Enchanted Evening Cube </a>
That's what I meant when I said corporate suits took power. Wizards is no longer a creative company, but a financial entity asked to make profit (I know both aren't incompatible and you can't keep losing money, but there's a balance to strike). Just look at the embarrassing replies on Rosewater's blog whenever somebody asks "why don't we do X or come back to Y" - the answer is always the same: "Market research shows it wasn't popular". You can't be more boardroom than this. And with Standard finally waning in popularity, don't expect too much investment in ancillary things like storyline to rise.
They did? I don't recall seeing more than a paragraph for each one on the product information. Where can we read more?
Major story disappointments have existed well before skipping C16 stories... just like they skipped every other years? Seriously, links or it didn't happen.
I think the fact that the story has substantially become less disappointing by pointing to the fact that this thread exists in the first place. Wizards has always had middling writing.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-story/family-values-2015-11-11
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-story/all-cairns-jund-2015-11-04
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I think the gap would work better between blocks, this has killed any momentum I felt for the story.
I understand this is free, but Wizarads does want us to tell them what we like and don't like. Just because it is free, doesn't mean we need to like it.
Agreed. You can clearly see someone from above said: ''Hey guys, that Marvel universe sure is popular nowadays. Make something like that. You know, with superheroes and one-liners and stuff. Kids really love it''.
I think that both Elspeth and Ajani are more popular than Gideon (again which makes me sad because I like Gideon and think they have done didely squate with him). Elspeth wasn't chosen cuz she was dead and Ajani is no longer mono-colored and Wizards doesn't think their audience connects to anthropamorphized characters. I also think that Garruk is more popular than Nissa and they added Lilliana to the Gatewatch and she has done more unforgivable things than Garruck has. I'm mostly gaging their popularity by my observations on the rumor mill and Blogatog(and my own opinions of course). Again Chandra isn't my cup of tea and I mean no offense if she is yours and admittedly I have forgotten about that novel. I just feel that the character development is uneven. I feel like I got to know Tamiyo more than Gideon, Nissa or even Jace. We know that she has a family that she collects stories she has friends all among the multiverse. I can't really think of learning anything about the main cast beyond what they can do that we didn't learn in the Origins stories.
Always remember that people with negative reactions tend to be louder than people with positive reactions even though they are in a minority in reality. They also tend to flock to the internet to vent their frustration with likeminded people, which creates echo chambers for their own opinion. At the end of the day, even though something is very popular, looking at "internet buzz" as your only source will give you a horribly warped, negative perspective of it. Sadly that's not only true for card games...
And the Gatewatch story is still at it's beginning. I don't agree that the characters didn't develop but even if I did there is still much time for creative to get the hang of it.
I tend to agree with the first statement and disagree with the second half about wizards caring about the players. They haven't really done much for players ever since return to ravnica resulted in the massive boom of players that got them started on the war path. As far as stories go, Wizards primary issue is that they want planeswalkers to be this all amazing singularity of player interest, but they are running them like a toy series from the 80s and 90s. Basically, the character and card are made first, and then they write up some story to support the character and have to try and stuff that guy onto whatever plane / set they are supporting. If they were made as a result of someone writing up a story and it taking off, then PWs would be a lot more popular than they actually are right now.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Yeah but lets take Jace for example. He was supposed to be the face of the Shadows over Innistrad we spent quite a bit of time with him during that block and I learned nothing new about him that I didn't know before the block began. The two characters who I think they developed the most were Tamiyo and Emerakul and they aren't members of the gatewatch. I just think if they want this to be a story driven franchise they have to have characters that are evolving that make me want to read next weeks story. They should have either given the spots to characters who have had development and continued to develop them or they should have given them each a block to be the star so that we could get to know them.
Well first of all we actually did get character developement for Jace long before Shadows already: Agents of Artifice, The Secretist and his Origin story gave as pretty much all the insight (and quite a few changes) to his character needed to establish him and his developement. He had slight developement in BFZ of becoming more proactive (in the storyline about Garruks corruption for example he send someomne else to deal with him at first) and even his relationships with Gideon, Nissa and first and foremost Liliana were deepened throughout this and SOIs storyline. SOI also gave us crazy Jace and I don't know about you, I found it enjoyable and horrifying how easy it was for him to lose himself, something he had to admit in EMN as well (when we learn that he at least devised some kind of contingency plan for this situation in case it happened again). I count all of this as "developement" the Agents of Artifice Jace would certainly not act the same way the Kaladesh Jace does in my opinion. The same is true for most of the Gatewatch, with Chandra and sadly Gideon being the weak links, but I hope to see their characters develope further in Kaladesh (which might be the last chance for Chandra, though Gideon shows promise in the latest story).