I hope we get a story article for Atraxa, because the last time we saw the praetors, they were at each other’s throat. After that Norn wiped most of the black and red faction of slate, it feels strange seeing them work together like that. I just can't see Norn saying "What’s up want to compleat an angel?" with all but Urabrask going "Sure why not".
The funniest thing is, creating something like her to spread the influence of phyrexia, to where exactly? The whole plane is already converted (+ / - a few survivors).
With Urabrask not joining the rest,it would be interesting if he and Koth joined forces against the other 4 praetors.
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Thanks to DarkNightCavalier from Heroes of the Plane Studios for this sick Signature.
Personally, I don't think that slapping a name of a character on a random card is satisfying. But I might be in the minority here.
Are you arguing that Reyhan's card doesn't fit the character? Because I think it's a decent fit - she (mechanically) cares about +1/+1 counters and (thematically) is about maintaining continuity with the dead and retaining their gifts, which seems to fit what little we know about her. She's certainly no worse than half the Legends and Planeswalkers out there when it comes to fitting the character concept. (I'd argue she's a better fit than Dovin Baan was for his concept, for example.)
Or are you arguing that, in general, you'd rather see Legendary Creatures organically built around their character concept, top-down, instead of creating them a Legendary Creature bottom-up and then applying a pre-existing name to it? Because if that is your argument, then I agree - and don't think you are in the minority with that opinion, either. (We just might disagree on the suitability of specific cards, though.)
If someone had asked anyone to design a Reyhan card you could bet your right arm that 99% of all people would have gone for -at the very least- a partially white card, but most likely BGW. That is because she was the leader of the Abzan. It's a pattern that is so ingrained in Magic, that the leaders of a certain faction have all the colours of that faction. All of the Khan cards match their clan's identity, as do the dragons and their broods. Then there's the guilds, the shards of Alara. The list goes on. This Reyhan card not only goes against player expectations, but even worse, it does it for no good reason. Reyhan wasn't designed to be Reyhan. Her name was simply slapped on a card that was clearly not intended to be Reyhan from the beginning.
There are two ways to make a character fit to a card: Justifications and reasons. Justifications come after the card is made. ("Okay so Reyhan isn't white, but it's because she's a rebel!") While reasons come before. ("Which colours would Reyhan be? Well, considering she's the khan of literally the last true Abzan, BGW seems to be the most fitting.") Personally, I want to see legendary creature cards designed with a reason, not have them justified retroactively.
Personally, I don't think that slapping a name of a character on a random card is satisfying. But I might be in the minority here.
How are they random? They have abilities that fit the characters. Would you rather a bunch of characters with zero lore or just blurbs that never get expanded on?
Yes.
If you read the design and/or development columns on the mothership you know how often they pull a mechanic or a card from a set, because it doesn't quite fit. The most recent example, energy was first designed for Mirrodin, which was how many decades ago? Bottom line is, they could have probably squeezed energy into Mirrodin, but the set would have suffered from it. It couldn't have been the best it could be. I wish characters would be treated similarly. Don't just squeeze Reyhan into a card that isn't her best incarnation. Now we will never get a "proper" Reyhan card, or a "proper" Ludevic card. And by "proper" I mean a card its fans enjoy. I haven't yet seen a single person who likes Ludevic's card, especially none of those who were fans of the character before the previews. In my opinion characters should only get cards, if a) The card has been specifically tailored to be that character. No hole filling. Or b) The character just happens to naturally fit the card to a T, even though its accidental.
Nostalgia cannot be brute-forced. Nostalgia is an emotion, and you can't tell people to like something, because of reasons. If the card doesn't feel right, (Reyhan not feeling like an Abzan khan, Ludevic not feeling like a necro-alchemist) then the creator is to blame, not the audience. And the important thing is, the main target audience for a legendary card is that character's fans. I'm not sure if there was anyone hoping for a Reyhan card, but if they were they most probably wanted her to be able to pilot an Abzan deck. Nobody fell in love with Ludevic because he's Izzet, but because he's Frankenstein.
As an aside: I have absolutely nothing against "story-less one-off characters that will never get expanded on". Not only do they make the Multiverse feel bigger, but they also fill a very important niche: Not everyone is a Vorthos, moreover, not everyone wants to replay the lore. Some people want to make up their own stories. Who is Ghave and what does he do? We only got the barest hint of his character in his blurb and that gets some people's imaginations rolling. Some want to make up their own stories. "Zero lore" characters fill that particular niche, especially for commander, where you actually have a face for your deck.
If someone had asked anyone to design a Reyhan card you could bet your right arm that 99% of all people would have gone for -at the very least- a partially white card, but most likely BGW. That is because she was the leader of the Abzan. It's a pattern that is so ingrained in Magic, that the leaders of a certain faction have all the colours of that faction. All of the Khan cards match their clan's identity, as do the dragons and their broods. Then there's the guilds, the shards of Alara. The list goes on. This Reyhan card not only goes against player expectations, but even worse, it does it for no good reason. Reyhan wasn't designed to be Reyhan. Her name was simply slapped on a card that was clearly not intended to be Reyhan from the beginning.
But Reyhan was never the true leader of the Abzan, at least how they used to be. The Abzan ceased to be when Daghatar bent knee to Dromoka. Reyhan was the leader of a splinter faction, and was barely recognized as a Khan by the others - and only then because they needed her. Flavorfully, BG still fits. And she can still pilot an Abzan deck, she just needs a WB or WG partner.
Don't just squeeze Reyhan into a card that isn't her best incarnation. Now we will never get a "proper" Reyhan card, or a "proper" Ludevic card. And by "proper" I mean a card its fans enjoy. I haven't yet seen a single person who likes Ludevic's card, especially none of those who were fans of the character before the previews. In my opinion characters should only get cards, if a) The card has been specifically tailored to be that character. No hole filling. Or b) The character just happens to naturally fit the card to a T, even though its accidental.
Nostalgia cannot be brute-forced. Nostalgia is an emotion, and you can't tell people to like something, because of reasons. If the card doesn't feel right, (Reyhan not feeling like an Abzan khan, Ludevic not feeling like a necro-alchemist) then the creator is to blame, not the audience. And the important thing is, the main target audience for a legendary card is that character's fans. I'm not sure if there was anyone hoping for a Reyhan card, but if they were they most probably wanted her to be able to pilot an Abzan deck. Nobody fell in love with Ludevic because he's Izzet, but because he's Frankenstein.
As an aside: I have absolutely nothing against "story-less one-off characters that will never get expanded on". Not only do they make the Multiverse feel bigger, but they also fill a very important niche: Not everyone is a Vorthos, moreover, not everyone wants to replay the lore. Some people want to make up their own stories. Who is Ghave and what does he do? We only got the barest hint of his character in his blurb and that gets some people's imaginations rolling. Some want to make up their own stories. "Zero lore" characters fill that particular niche, especially for commander, where you actually have a face for your deck.
I think this would be a horrible mistake, personally. I hate lore-less legends, it makes me feel less connected to them, and if a character who would otherwise never get a card gets one, that's fantastic. Card design rarely, if ever, allows you to design a legend around a character, and making that the standard would me we lose all the good with the occasional bad. I'd rather they made decent cards for Commander products, and then apply minor characters who could fit it.
Ultimately, I think 'Partner' is a fantastic way of giving cards to all those extremely minor characters who would never get anything, otherwise.
*Sigh* I just was hoping for someone from Kamigawa. I'm a huge canine fan. HUGE. Foxes are my favorite animal. We'really probably never going back to Kamigawa, so seeing the Kitsune again is almost a zero-sum chance. Last year snakes got a legendary, so I had miniscule hope. Hell, I'd have liked to see a new Soratami or Nezumi. But alas, that's not to be. The legends outside of Ludevic - who seems extremely botched - Kondo and Kydele seem oddly....forced, for lack of a better term. I mean, I get the excitement for seeing legends from texts and stories represented, but with no Taigam, Tovolar, Arixmethes or Hal and Alena represented, what the hell checkbox were they using for this set? Everything just feels so random.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily mad for any inclusions outside of the disaster that is Ludevic, but it just feels so skewed towards Theros and random flavor text legends, when other legends and other worlds would kill for just a whiff of represnetstion.
Then again, it could just be me.
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Vorthos-player with way too much time on his hands and a love of thematic decks.
EDH - Yes, Each One is Named After a Song. I love tying music to my decks.
Up to now, the only red zombie card was Slavering Nulls. Out of ~23 years of this game.
Ludevic had great flavor in Innistrad, where zombies and Skaberen and necromany were mechanically and flavorfully UB.
Then they come with the nice casual-friendly community product and butcher that flavor in a way that reaches new lows in story and flavor I thought only Maro was still capable of.
I hope indeed they stay the away of Dominaria for good. I prefer to have fond memories rather than sore disappointment.
I don't see why anyone is pissed at Ludevic being Blue/Red. Necro-alchemists are pretty strongly Blue, there's plenty of Red spells associated to them, and several of the innistrad decks involve zombies in combinations beyond Blue/Black. Frankly, I'm glad that they went this direction, it was a very pleasant surprise (though personally I was expeting Ludevic to be Green/Blue).
As for Reyhan, she was clearly designed with Abzan in mind. She's incomplete... as she should be.
If i was making Ludevic, I would have him in the grixis colors: blue, red, and black. They make far more sense for the mad scientist necro-alchemist that he is.
So I'm not the only one who isn't surprised at Ludevic being UR. Though honestly I would have been disappointed if he appeared in Black, when he clearly isn't. People keep harping on the Necro part of necro-alchemist when it was the alchemist part the Ludevic exemplified, especially in cards such as Lupine Prototype, and Hysterical Blindness. Those of you expecting him to be black seemed to have tunneled visioned on to his title rather than the cards that show case his works, only 2 out of 6 cards that are attributed to him are zombies and there is a rather clear distinction between blue and black zombies on Innistrad.
I will admit two other things. If you completely ignore the flavor of the card I really like it, it is something that is rather outside of what these colors normally do but still well within the color pie, and I hope we see more pushes from the norm like this. Also I HATE THIS CARD it is not Ludevic in the slightest. The vaguest of connections can be made for drawing cards because of his tutoring of Geralf, but it would only make sense if he tortured him during the time. So awful flavor, some of the worst I've seen in recent years.
*Sigh* I just was hoping for someone from Kamigawa. I'm a huge canine fan. HUGE. Foxes are my favorite animal. We'really probably never going back to Kamigawa, so seeing the Kitsune again is almost a zero-sum chance. Last year snakes got a legendary, so I had miniscule hope. Hell, I'd have liked to see a new Soratami or Nezumi. But alas, that's not to be. The legends outside of Ludevic - who seems extremely botched - Kondo and Kydele seem oddly....forced, for lack of a better term. I mean, I get the excitement for seeing legends from texts and stories represented, but with no Taigam, Tovolar, Arixmethes or Hal and Alena represented, what the hell checkbox were they using for this set? Everything just feels so random.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily mad for any inclusions outside of the disaster that is Ludevic, but it just feels so skewed towards Theros and random flavor text legends, when other legends and other worlds would kill for just a whiff of represnetstion.
Then again, it could just be me.
Kamigawa-themed cards would have certainly been welcome here, yes. I would love some new Minamo Wizards and Soratami, and Choryu is a character from the Kamigawa novels I would love to see get a card as well. Although he's a Mono-Blue Human Wizard. At least we got Kaseto last year, which I suspect was an experimental role. I'm sure it takes time to evaluate how that was received, so we could see more Kamigawa-themed cards in the next series, or in general, soon enough. I actually suspect Return to Kamigawa may not be so out of the question. As my second-favorite plane following Theros, I too would love some new and past character cards from Kamigawa. Ninjas alone would please many for sure, specifically from there. Samurai too. Lady Pearl Ear and Kyodai and Michiko as the Sisters of Flesh and Spirit are glaring misses. O-Kagachi too. But their time will come hopefully.
Still, the product this year is truly amazing. It's better than Commander 2014 even, or at least just as good. The direction these products are taking by making past character cards is already impressive and a good sign. I think the issue isn't that they aren't good (this product truly is excellent from a Vorthos perspective) but unfortunately this series just had a lot to do. It had to deliver 4-color Legendaries, then even more Partner Legendaries to satisfy various 4-color combinations, deliver enough past characters and still be designed well enough to play on its own or deliver pieces that support various Commander archetypes so players could still find individual cards to obtain. It's understandable that they can't be entirely perfect and slips like Ludevic might occur.
I will say, however, that Ludevic's card isn't just underwhelming, it is pretty bizarre flavorfully as well. I neither expected him to be UR, nor his card to do what it does, nor him to be weaker than either Geralf, Gisa, or their card together. His abilities seem off. The card was definitely a miss for me. But still, it's a wonderful thing that his fans have a card for him now, and as we saw with SOI/EMN popular characters who already have cards get new, additional cards for whatever reason. So he could very well have more incarnations down the line as Gisa and Geralf did. At least he didn't get the Jenrik treatment… where we got duplicates of Thalia, Olivia, Odric, etc. and Jenrik killed off immediately with nothing and not even a hope of a future card. That royally sucked.
Taigam, Arixmethes, Hal and Alena - I think Taigam will be hype for Return to Tarkir, or in next year's product. 4-color decks just aren't flexible enough to deliver most legendaries. For example, I knew a Mono-Blue Legendary Kraken wasn't going to be in a 4-color deck. It's just not feasible casting a 12/12+ with a no doubt Blue-intensive CMC in these decks. And I don't think Taigam is UW to have been the Tarkir bird thing? IDK. I expect they'll come later. And I don't think Hal and Alena were popularized in time to have made it into this set regardless.
I'm content with the Legends we got honestly - especially Kydele. Even if it means going another year without Arixmethes, Callaphe, Choryu and even Jenrik (who I've lost hope on frankly… Innistrad Legends always getting messed up).
I think this would be a horrible mistake, personally. I hate lore-less legends, it makes me feel less connected to them, and if a character who would otherwise never get a card gets one, that's fantastic. Card design rarely, if ever, allows you to design a legend around a character, and making that the standard would me we lose all the good with the occasional bad. I'd rather they made decent cards for Commander products, and then apply minor characters who could fit it.
Ultimately, I think 'Partner' is a fantastic way of giving cards to all those extremely minor characters who would never get anything, otherwise.
I agree. I can't stand those random legends that have no lore or backstory or even associated planes. Like Anya (who would have been Feather, for example). That's really the absolute pits. Meanwhile, cards like Ravos are great. He has a lot of flavor, we know he's from Theros, and could have future story implications. Still not as perfect as a past character getting a card, but when it comes to introducing new legendaries for those who want to see entirely new faces in these products, I'm happy they delivered a card like Ravos who feels familiar than something like Anya who is "random, unknown plane, RW Angel with name because Legendary kbye." And cards like Ravos felt a lot more inspired than Kalemne as well, who despite being thematic and familiar just fell absolutely flat in every respect. She's a giant. Who fights for Iroas. Woooooow. Damn Commander 2015 was just awful in every sense frankly.
I agree. I can't stand those random legends that have no lore or backstory or even associated planes. Like Anya (who would have been Feather, for example). That's really the absolute pits.
Same, I like characters from planes be they new characters or old characters to have some background. when I build commander decks I like having a theme to build from. Its not enough for them to be the powerful cards that are synergistic together if they don't have flavor synergy. So having a legend that has no background and no connection to any other lore doesn't work for me. Which is why I am pretty happy with this bunch of commander products.
Meanwhile, cards like Ravos are great. He has a lot of flavor, we know he's from Theros, and could have future story implications. Still not as perfect as a past character getting a card, but when it comes to introducing new legendaries for those who want to see entirely new faces in these products, I'm happy they delivered a card like Ravos who feels familiar than something like Anya who is "random, unknown plane, RW Angel with name because Legendary kbye." And cards like Ravos felt a lot more inspired than Kalemne as well, who despite being thematic and familiar just fell absolutely flat in every respect. She's a giant. Who fights for Iroas. Woooooow. Damn Commander 2015 was just awful in every sense frankly.
Yea, I am liking the Theros stuff here the most. They are also far more flavorful then Kalemne. Ravos in particular is interesting, here is a pyschopomp while conspiring behind his god's back. I like all the Theros characters so far.
Speaking of theros, Kynaios and Tiro are making me think of perhaps finally doing a Theros themed EDH deck that I been wanting to do.
Of note: Gisa and Geralf's commander cards didn't preclude a new card for them in SOI block. So there is always hope for another one. Hopefully C17 will have more partner cards for us to mash-up (maybe mono-colored?).
In any case, I'm genuinely curious of what the next three weeks are going to be story-wise. Are we getting any actual commander stories, or some other kind of interlude?
I can't stand those random legends that have no lore or backstory or even associated planes. Like Anya (who would have been Feather, for example). That's really the absolute pits.
I kind of like "random legends". OK, I have to agree that Anya is indeed very boring. Same goes for Kalemne. But that's just because they're Boros legends - most of them are boring. However, legends like Riku of Two Reflections, Ghave, Guru of Spores, Zedruu the Greathearted, Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest, Kaseto, Orochi Archmage or Arjun, the Shifting Flame are pretty cool in my book. Cards like this mostly leave it to you to determine who these persons are, what they do etc. Instead of characters you already know basically everything about, they still have some air of mystery around them, kind of like the futureshifted cards. The legends I'd like to see the most would be characters from the more obscure Planechase planes like Belenon, Kyneth, Xerex or Fabacin. There's something about building those planes in your mind based on some "hints" here and there that's really intriguing.
I'd be curious on their colors too. Lots of possibilities, and I doubt both are those four colors equally.
I figured one might be UW and from Meletis and the other be GRW and be an orphan raised in Setessa who, upon growing up departed and joined the Akroan army, and eventually met the other in Meletis during the war and founded it together. Both share W by virtue of being kings and fighting for civilization and unseating tyranny of course.
I don't think Heliod is actually a villain. Considering Xenagos becoming an illegitimate god and causing a lot of damage and suffering on Theros, Elspeth killing Daxos (which was Xenagos confusing her, but still), Ashiok attacking Iretis and messing with Ephara's dreams, Dack stealing a gauntlet and Kiora stealing Dekella, you really can't blame Heliod for killing planes walkers. Especially when his information about them likely comes from Phenax.
I wouldn't mind an Agnomakhos card as well. Theros has so many legends that need cards IMO. Iris, Oracle of Ephara, Arixmethes, Adresteia (one of the Fates), Callaphe… list goes on!
I don't think Heliod is actually a villain. Considering Xenagos becoming an illegitimate god and causing a lot of damage and suffering on Theros, Elspeth killing Daxos (which was Xenagos confusing her, but still), Ashiok attacking Iretis and messing with Ephara's dreams, Dack stealing a gauntlet and Kiora stealing Dekella, you really can't blame Heliod for killing planes walkers. Especially when his information about them likely comes from Phenax.
Yea. I don't see Heliod as a badguy(a Jerk sure but not evil. He is after all the white only god). Plus considering he doesn't know much about Planeswalkers, he might have thought Elspeth would try and either take his place or become another god which would cause chaos like Xenagos did. Keep in mind Xenagos caused chaos by simply becoming a nyxborn.
Not to mention when Kruphex saw glimpses of Nicol Bolas and realized how powerful the elder dragon is that caused him to be-afraid. Considering that Kruphex would have likely told Heliod about Nicol Bolas. It makes some sense that he might have killed Elspeth.
Moreover there is this fun line from the wiki: It is implied that Heliod's personality, like most of the gods', changes in accordance to mortal beliefs.
So perhaps Heliod changes following more encounters with Planeswalkers. Would like to see more of the postive aspects of both Zeus in the Myths as well as the color white in Magic shown with Heliod.
Theros has so many legends that need cards IMO. Iris, Oracle of Ephara, Arixmethes, Adresteia (one of the Fates), Callaphe… list goes on!
Yet another reason why I want a return to Theros. Plus with Kynaios and Tiro I decided to start planning on constructing a Meltis/Theros themed deck, so more legendaries and fun things is nice.
Plus I think it would make perfect sense after Amonkhet. Where I suspect the Gatewatch will experience defeat for the first time at the hands of Nicol Bolas. Which would prompt them to visit planes to get allies to oppose him, and Elspeth is a perfect person to ally with. Ajani was there and Gidon* was born there so it would make perfect sense to start there first. Not to mention one could have in standard both Amonkhet and Theros Gods this way. Not to mention after 2 new worlds I would be suprised if there wasn't a return world up next.
*I want to know why does Gidon not call himself Kythion as Kythion is his actual name. Does he just not like Kythion?
I don't think Heliod is actually a villain. Considering Xenagos becoming an illegitimate god and causing a lot of damage and suffering on Theros, Elspeth killing Daxos (which was Xenagos confusing her, but still), Ashiok attacking Iretis and messing with Ephara's dreams, Dack stealing a gauntlet and Kiora stealing Dekella, you really can't blame Heliod for killing planes walkers. Especially when his information about them likely comes from Phenax.
Yea. I don't see Heliod as a badguy(a Jerk sure but not evil. He is after all the white only god). Plus considering he doesn't know much about Planeswalkers, he might have thought Elspeth would try and either take his place or become another god which would cause chaos like Xenagos did. Keep in mind Xenagos caused chaos by simply becoming a nyxborn.
Not to mention when Kruphex saw glimpses of Nicol Bolas and realized how powerful the elder dragon is that caused him to be-afraid. Considering that Kruphex would have likely told Heliod about Nicol Bolas. It makes some sense that he might have killed Elspeth.
Moreover there is this fun line from the wiki: It is implied that Heliod's personality, like most of the gods', changes in accordance to mortal beliefs.
So perhaps Heliod changes following more encounters with Planeswalkers. Would like to see more of the postive aspects of both Zeus in the Myths as well as the color white in Magic shown with Heliod.
No, Heliod is definitely a villain and that is a good thing. White doesn't have many villains although it has as many negative aspects as the other colors (it is the color of Fascism and Totalitarism for example) and should not be seen as the "good" color. Heliod attacked Elspeth just because she had Purphoros sword (without asking questions) and then tried to use her as his champion when she was able to deflect his unprovoked attack. He constantly tries to put himself as the top god of Theros pantheon (when in reality Kruphix would be the closest to actually being it) and creates nearly as much conflict in doing so as Xenagos was able to do over the whole story. Kruphix definitely didn't tell anyone except his oracle of the multiversal dangers and Heliod killed Elspeth because he feared that with her having knowledge unaccessible to him she was somehow challenging his "rule" (if I remember correctly he even says that she was "too much like the Satyr" in his eyes, meaning she knows too much in his opinion). She helped him defeat Xenagos and for the simple fact that she had potential he didn't understand and without showing any kind of gratitude for her help Heliod stabbed her in the back. You can't get much more obviously villanous than that. White has enough good character, what it needs are villains like Heliod.
I don't think Heliod is actually a villain. Considering Xenagos becoming an illegitimate god and causing a lot of damage and suffering on Theros, Elspeth killing Daxos (which was Xenagos confusing her, but still), Ashiok attacking Iretis and messing with Ephara's dreams, Dack stealing a gauntlet and Kiora stealing Dekella, you really can't blame Heliod for killing planes walkers. Especially when his information about them likely comes from Phenax.
Yea. I don't see Heliod as a badguy(a Jerk sure but not evil. He is after all the white only god). Plus considering he doesn't know much about Planeswalkers, he might have thought Elspeth would try and either take his place or become another god which would cause chaos like Xenagos did. Keep in mind Xenagos caused chaos by simply becoming a nyxborn.
Not to mention when Kruphex saw glimpses of Nicol Bolas and realized how powerful the elder dragon is that caused him to be-afraid. Considering that Kruphex would have likely told Heliod about Nicol Bolas. It makes some sense that he might have killed Elspeth.
Moreover there is this fun line from the wiki: It is implied that Heliod's personality, like most of the gods', changes in accordance to mortal beliefs.
So perhaps Heliod changes following more encounters with Planeswalkers. Would like to see more of the postive aspects of both Zeus in the Myths as well as the color white in Magic shown with Heliod.
No, Heliod is definitely a villain and that is a good thing. White doesn't have many villains although it has as many negative aspects as the other colors (it is the color of Fascism and Totalitarism for example) and should not be seen as the "good" color. Heliod attacked Elspeth just because she had Purphoros sword (without asking questions) and then tried to use her as his champion when she was able to deflect his unprovoked attack. He constantly tries to put himself as the top god of Theros pantheon (when in reality Kruphix would be the closest to actually being it) and creates nearly as much conflict in doing so as Xenagos was able to do over the whole story. Kruphix definitely didn't tell anyone except his oracle of the multiversal dangers and Heliod killed Elspeth because he feared that with her having knowledge unaccessible to him she was somehow challenging his "rule" (if I remember correctly he even says that she was "too much like the Satyr" in his eyes, meaning she knows too much in his opinion). She helped him defeat Xenagos and for the simple fact that she had potential he didn't understand and without showing any kind of gratitude for her help Heliod stabbed her in the back. You can't get much more obviously villanous than that. White has enough good character, what it needs are villains like Heliod.
Hear, hear.
It's a mistake for people to think that white=good, or that someone can't be evil/bad/villainous because they have a white color identity.
White values community (and order) above all else, and will absolutely oppress the f*** out of the individual to achieve that goal. More than that, there's nothing even saying that white cares about what is factually better for the community, only what white believes is better.
White is very much a "For your own good" color, and we've long since learned to be wary of that statement.
Heh,Taigam fans just got trolled HARD. The UW legend is Ishai,the aven dragonspeaker.
You sure? I'm pretty sure they didn't want him to be such a bad card.
What I meant is that the UW legend is indeed from Tarkir, indeed an Ojutai member, but not Taigam. I agree that if it was Taigam, it would be lackluster.
And I second the thought that after reading Chas Andres's article on Ludevic, it makes sense.
Sorry for being late to the "Ludevic fails" complains, but I'm actually quite annoyed that Ludevic isn't black, not because he's a necro-alchemist, but because his true defining trait is his reclusiveness (seriously how many times did Geralf even meet him, let alone everyone else?) Reclusiveness was a B trait on Innistrad. I could tell they wanted to convey that through his ability, but they even botched that up (instead of "Don't bother Ludevic", everyone reads it as "Hurt yourself and get rewarded").
And the salty topping of it all? He has partner. Yeah, from Geralf we can tell he's not completely adverse to partnerships, but it's not like he showed up for said partnership either... was the idea to make him so bad that we won't cast him from the Command Zone so he'll stay reclusive? That's some meta-thinking right there
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The funniest thing is, creating something like her to spread the influence of phyrexia, to where exactly? The whole plane is already converted (+ / - a few survivors).
With Urabrask not joining the rest,it would be interesting if he and Koth joined forces against the other 4 praetors.
Thanks to DarkNightCavalier from Heroes of the Plane Studios for this sick Signature.
If someone had asked anyone to design a Reyhan card you could bet your right arm that 99% of all people would have gone for -at the very least- a partially white card, but most likely BGW. That is because she was the leader of the Abzan. It's a pattern that is so ingrained in Magic, that the leaders of a certain faction have all the colours of that faction. All of the Khan cards match their clan's identity, as do the dragons and their broods. Then there's the guilds, the shards of Alara. The list goes on. This Reyhan card not only goes against player expectations, but even worse, it does it for no good reason. Reyhan wasn't designed to be Reyhan. Her name was simply slapped on a card that was clearly not intended to be Reyhan from the beginning.
There are two ways to make a character fit to a card: Justifications and reasons. Justifications come after the card is made. ("Okay so Reyhan isn't white, but it's because she's a rebel!") While reasons come before. ("Which colours would Reyhan be? Well, considering she's the khan of literally the last true Abzan, BGW seems to be the most fitting.") Personally, I want to see legendary creature cards designed with a reason, not have them justified retroactively.
Yes.
If you read the design and/or development columns on the mothership you know how often they pull a mechanic or a card from a set, because it doesn't quite fit. The most recent example, energy was first designed for Mirrodin, which was how many decades ago? Bottom line is, they could have probably squeezed energy into Mirrodin, but the set would have suffered from it. It couldn't have been the best it could be. I wish characters would be treated similarly. Don't just squeeze Reyhan into a card that isn't her best incarnation. Now we will never get a "proper" Reyhan card, or a "proper" Ludevic card. And by "proper" I mean a card its fans enjoy. I haven't yet seen a single person who likes Ludevic's card, especially none of those who were fans of the character before the previews. In my opinion characters should only get cards, if a) The card has been specifically tailored to be that character. No hole filling. Or b) The character just happens to naturally fit the card to a T, even though its accidental.
Nostalgia cannot be brute-forced. Nostalgia is an emotion, and you can't tell people to like something, because of reasons. If the card doesn't feel right, (Reyhan not feeling like an Abzan khan, Ludevic not feeling like a necro-alchemist) then the creator is to blame, not the audience. And the important thing is, the main target audience for a legendary card is that character's fans. I'm not sure if there was anyone hoping for a Reyhan card, but if they were they most probably wanted her to be able to pilot an Abzan deck. Nobody fell in love with Ludevic because he's Izzet, but because he's Frankenstein.
As an aside: I have absolutely nothing against "story-less one-off characters that will never get expanded on". Not only do they make the Multiverse feel bigger, but they also fill a very important niche: Not everyone is a Vorthos, moreover, not everyone wants to replay the lore. Some people want to make up their own stories. Who is Ghave and what does he do? We only got the barest hint of his character in his blurb and that gets some people's imaginations rolling. Some want to make up their own stories. "Zero lore" characters fill that particular niche, especially for commander, where you actually have a face for your deck.
I have to say, after reading the Ludevic Article today, I think his card is reasonable.
But Reyhan was never the true leader of the Abzan, at least how they used to be. The Abzan ceased to be when Daghatar bent knee to Dromoka. Reyhan was the leader of a splinter faction, and was barely recognized as a Khan by the others - and only then because they needed her. Flavorfully, BG still fits. And she can still pilot an Abzan deck, she just needs a WB or WG partner.
I think this would be a horrible mistake, personally. I hate lore-less legends, it makes me feel less connected to them, and if a character who would otherwise never get a card gets one, that's fantastic. Card design rarely, if ever, allows you to design a legend around a character, and making that the standard would me we lose all the good with the occasional bad. I'd rather they made decent cards for Commander products, and then apply minor characters who could fit it.
Ultimately, I think 'Partner' is a fantastic way of giving cards to all those extremely minor characters who would never get anything, otherwise.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily mad for any inclusions outside of the disaster that is Ludevic, but it just feels so skewed towards Theros and random flavor text legends, when other legends and other worlds would kill for just a whiff of represnetstion.
Then again, it could just be me.
EDH - Yes, Each One is Named After a Song. I love tying music to my decks.
B Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief B - Fear of the Dark
WG Sigarda, Heron's Grace WG - Strength in Numbers
RG Xenagos, God of Revels RG - Fullmoon (It's werewolves)
RW Archangel Avacyn // Avacyn, the Purifier RW - The End is Nigh
60 Card Kitchen Table Decks
WUB Avacyn, Spirit Ferrier
RG Arlinn Kord's Howlpack
Ludevic had great flavor in Innistrad, where zombies and Skaberen and necromany were mechanically and flavorfully UB.
Then they come with the nice casual-friendly community product and butcher that flavor in a way that reaches new lows in story and flavor I thought only Maro was still capable of.
I hope indeed they stay the away of Dominaria for good. I prefer to have fond memories rather than sore disappointment.
As for Reyhan, she was clearly designed with Abzan in mind. She's incomplete... as she should be.
I will admit two other things. If you completely ignore the flavor of the card I really like it, it is something that is rather outside of what these colors normally do but still well within the color pie, and I hope we see more pushes from the norm like this. Also I HATE THIS CARD it is not Ludevic in the slightest. The vaguest of connections can be made for drawing cards because of his tutoring of Geralf, but it would only make sense if he tortured him during the time. So awful flavor, some of the worst I've seen in recent years.
Hell this abiltiy could have been giving to another mad scientist, like the exorcist contracted by Liliana to deal with The Chain Veil.
Like i said before, Ludevic should have been the face of the UBRG deck, with diferent abilities ofcourse
Still, the product this year is truly amazing. It's better than Commander 2014 even, or at least just as good. The direction these products are taking by making past character cards is already impressive and a good sign. I think the issue isn't that they aren't good (this product truly is excellent from a Vorthos perspective) but unfortunately this series just had a lot to do. It had to deliver 4-color Legendaries, then even more Partner Legendaries to satisfy various 4-color combinations, deliver enough past characters and still be designed well enough to play on its own or deliver pieces that support various Commander archetypes so players could still find individual cards to obtain. It's understandable that they can't be entirely perfect and slips like Ludevic might occur.
I will say, however, that Ludevic's card isn't just underwhelming, it is pretty bizarre flavorfully as well. I neither expected him to be UR, nor his card to do what it does, nor him to be weaker than either Geralf, Gisa, or their card together. His abilities seem off. The card was definitely a miss for me. But still, it's a wonderful thing that his fans have a card for him now, and as we saw with SOI/EMN popular characters who already have cards get new, additional cards for whatever reason. So he could very well have more incarnations down the line as Gisa and Geralf did. At least he didn't get the Jenrik treatment… where we got duplicates of Thalia, Olivia, Odric, etc. and Jenrik killed off immediately with nothing and not even a hope of a future card. That royally sucked.
Taigam, Arixmethes, Hal and Alena - I think Taigam will be hype for Return to Tarkir, or in next year's product. 4-color decks just aren't flexible enough to deliver most legendaries. For example, I knew a Mono-Blue Legendary Kraken wasn't going to be in a 4-color deck. It's just not feasible casting a 12/12+ with a no doubt Blue-intensive CMC in these decks. And I don't think Taigam is UW to have been the Tarkir bird thing? IDK. I expect they'll come later. And I don't think Hal and Alena were popularized in time to have made it into this set regardless.
I'm content with the Legends we got honestly - especially Kydele. Even if it means going another year without Arixmethes, Callaphe, Choryu and even Jenrik (who I've lost hope on frankly… Innistrad Legends always getting messed up).
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Same, I like characters from planes be they new characters or old characters to have some background. when I build commander decks I like having a theme to build from. Its not enough for them to be the powerful cards that are synergistic together if they don't have flavor synergy. So having a legend that has no background and no connection to any other lore doesn't work for me. Which is why I am pretty happy with this bunch of commander products.
Yea, I am liking the Theros stuff here the most. They are also far more flavorful then Kalemne. Ravos in particular is interesting, here is a pyschopomp while conspiring behind his god's back. I like all the Theros characters so far.
Speaking of theros, Kynaios and Tiro are making me think of perhaps finally doing a Theros themed EDH deck that I been wanting to do.
In any case, I'm genuinely curious of what the next three weeks are going to be story-wise. Are we getting any actual commander stories, or some other kind of interlude?
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I kind of like "random legends". OK, I have to agree that Anya is indeed very boring. Same goes for Kalemne. But that's just because they're Boros legends - most of them are boring. However, legends like Riku of Two Reflections, Ghave, Guru of Spores, Zedruu the Greathearted, Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest, Kaseto, Orochi Archmage or Arjun, the Shifting Flame are pretty cool in my book. Cards like this mostly leave it to you to determine who these persons are, what they do etc. Instead of characters you already know basically everything about, they still have some air of mystery around them, kind of like the futureshifted cards. The legends I'd like to see the most would be characters from the more obscure Planechase planes like Belenon, Kyneth, Xerex or Fabacin. There's something about building those planes in your mind based on some "hints" here and there that's really intriguing.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I want an Agnomakhos card. Knowing my luck it'd probably be White/Black, but I want a second White villainy on Theros beside Heliod.
Plot-twist: Heliod is actually Agnomakhos' thoughtform or something.
I wouldn't mind an Agnomakhos card as well. Theros has so many legends that need cards IMO. Iris, Oracle of Ephara, Arixmethes, Adresteia (one of the Fates), Callaphe… list goes on!
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Yea. I don't see Heliod as a badguy(a Jerk sure but not evil. He is after all the white only god). Plus considering he doesn't know much about Planeswalkers, he might have thought Elspeth would try and either take his place or become another god which would cause chaos like Xenagos did. Keep in mind Xenagos caused chaos by simply becoming a nyxborn.
Not to mention when Kruphex saw glimpses of Nicol Bolas and realized how powerful the elder dragon is that caused him to be-afraid. Considering that Kruphex would have likely told Heliod about Nicol Bolas. It makes some sense that he might have killed Elspeth.
Moreover there is this fun line from the wiki: It is implied that Heliod's personality, like most of the gods', changes in accordance to mortal beliefs.
So perhaps Heliod changes following more encounters with Planeswalkers. Would like to see more of the postive aspects of both Zeus in the Myths as well as the color white in Magic shown with Heliod.
Yet another reason why I want a return to Theros. Plus with Kynaios and Tiro I decided to start planning on constructing a Meltis/Theros themed deck, so more legendaries and fun things is nice.
Plus I think it would make perfect sense after Amonkhet. Where I suspect the Gatewatch will experience defeat for the first time at the hands of Nicol Bolas. Which would prompt them to visit planes to get allies to oppose him, and Elspeth is a perfect person to ally with. Ajani was there and Gidon* was born there so it would make perfect sense to start there first. Not to mention one could have in standard both Amonkhet and Theros Gods this way. Not to mention after 2 new worlds I would be suprised if there wasn't a return world up next.
*I want to know why does Gidon not call himself Kythion as Kythion is his actual name. Does he just not like Kythion?
Lets get this straight, shidiqi is a Naga. Shadiqi on the other hand is a Cat Demon from Khans timeline
No, Heliod is definitely a villain and that is a good thing. White doesn't have many villains although it has as many negative aspects as the other colors (it is the color of Fascism and Totalitarism for example) and should not be seen as the "good" color. Heliod attacked Elspeth just because she had Purphoros sword (without asking questions) and then tried to use her as his champion when she was able to deflect his unprovoked attack. He constantly tries to put himself as the top god of Theros pantheon (when in reality Kruphix would be the closest to actually being it) and creates nearly as much conflict in doing so as Xenagos was able to do over the whole story. Kruphix definitely didn't tell anyone except his oracle of the multiversal dangers and Heliod killed Elspeth because he feared that with her having knowledge unaccessible to him she was somehow challenging his "rule" (if I remember correctly he even says that she was "too much like the Satyr" in his eyes, meaning she knows too much in his opinion). She helped him defeat Xenagos and for the simple fact that she had potential he didn't understand and without showing any kind of gratitude for her help Heliod stabbed her in the back. You can't get much more obviously villanous than that. White has enough good character, what it needs are villains like Heliod.
Hear, hear.
It's a mistake for people to think that white=good, or that someone can't be evil/bad/villainous because they have a white color identity.
White values community (and order) above all else, and will absolutely oppress the f*** out of the individual to achieve that goal. More than that, there's nothing even saying that white cares about what is factually better for the community, only what white believes is better.
White is very much a "For your own good" color, and we've long since learned to be wary of that statement.
What I meant is that the UW legend is indeed from Tarkir, indeed an Ojutai member, but not Taigam. I agree that if it was Taigam, it would be lackluster.
And I second the thought that after reading Chas Andres's article on Ludevic, it makes sense.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
And the salty topping of it all? He has partner. Yeah, from Geralf we can tell he's not completely adverse to partnerships, but it's not like he showed up for said partnership either... was the idea to make him so bad that we won't cast him from the Command Zone so he'll stay reclusive? That's some meta-thinking right there