I'm pretty happy with all most of the commander legends. I'm thrilled to get minor characters like Shidiqi and Bruse Tarl. I do believe there were some missed opportunities, Ludevic in particular was a grave mishandling that can hopefully be resolved in Innistrad 3 with a Grixis colored card. I also think that Tana and the other new duel color legends were kind of wasted opportunities but if we see them in stories later on I'm willing to revise that opinion.
On the whole Heliod debate, let's just all agree Kruphix is the real g and not worry about it
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Ok, this discussion about Heliod is kinda getting out of hand. Shouldn't we be talking about the new legendaries?
Personally, I think Thrasios' card doesn't work very well as a portrayal of a 'hero', more like a scholar or explorer. In fact, I would have much rather seen the famous Fblthp as the character with those effects. He's a groundskeeper for the Azorius, so it fits. Also, how can you give Bruse a card and not that little guy?
I think they're just waiting for the opportunity to ignite a planeswalker who's totally lost... as opposed to one always anchored by paperwork...
Seriously though, I think the main issue was 4-colored pretty much demanded a bottom-up build and we all know that we all want featured Legendary creatures to be top-down designs, hence the number of "misses" that seem to appear in this set,
So the more I think about it the more I'm ok with Ludevic being just RU without any black. Yes, he is a stitcher, but they are primarily blue anyway, Geralf, the posterboy of Innistrad stitchers was a mono U card. Also, while Ludevic is a zombie maker, he is also the creator of things like Lupine Prototype and Ludevic's Abomination, and one interested in non zombie creations like Narstad Scrapper. All in all I can buy him being a UR mad scientist who maybe dips into black on some of his insane experiments. I still feel his card is fairly underwhelming and off flavor, but I can buy the color justification.
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
So the more I think about it the more I'm ok with Ludevic being just RU without any black. Yes, he is a stitcher, but they are primarily blue anyway, Geralf, the posterboy of Innistrad stitchers was a mono U card. Also, while Ludevic is a zombie maker, he is also the creator of things like Lupine Prototype and Ludevic's Abomination, and one interested in non zombie creations like Narstad Scrapper. All in all I can buy him being a UR mad scientist who maybe dips into black on some of his insane experiments. I still feel his card is fairly underwhelming and off flavor, but I can buy the color justification.
Exactly. I don't know why everyone was expecting him to have black. Granted, I wish he did something mechanically with zombies, but he's right at home in BlUE/REd
doing bad things for a good cause can still make you a villain though. just because he is doing what he thinks is best for Theros, doesn't preclude it from being evil. Hitler thought that what he was doing was best for Germany.
and specifically killing Elspeth DOES make him evil: he straight up murdered an innocent person. he murdered her on the grounds that she might maybe do something bad in the future, but since she had done nothing and had not attempted to do anything, it was murder.
Yes, it makes him evil, but it makes him a specifically White kind of evil. Murdering an innocent person because they might do something bad in the future is a very White action to take. After all, the needs of the common good must come before the needs of the individual, and if killing one person now can even potentially save hundreds of lives down the road, that's a worthwhile sacrifice to make.
Also, not sure what Hitler's color alignment would be, but the Nazis as an organization would definitely be White.
So the more I think about it the more I'm ok with Ludevic being just RU without any black. Yes, he is a stitcher, but they are primarily blue anyway, Geralf, the posterboy of Innistrad stitchers was a mono U card. Also, while Ludevic is a zombie maker, he is also the creator of things like Lupine Prototype and Ludevic's Abomination, and one interested in non zombie creations like Narstad Scrapper. All in all I can buy him being a UR mad scientist who maybe dips into black on some of his insane experiments. I still feel his card is fairly underwhelming and off flavor, but I can buy the color justification.
Exactly. I don't know why everyone was expecting him to have black. Granted, I wish he did something mechanically with zombies, but he's right at home in BlUE/REd
Because of him being referred as the NECRO-alchemist? ;-)
That said, I second Kruphix7. The more I think about it, the more sense it makes. After all, he is - and ever was - indeed the "mad scientist" archetype, a dr. Frankenstein of Innistrad. It is just the unfortunate clearly black-connotated "necro" part that made people expect something different than UR.
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100% Vorthos Spike and Storyline Expert
Former Fact Prospector of the Greek Alliance.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
I agree with Caranthir's post above regarding Ludevic. As a Dr. Frankenstein, we've got the blue identity as a stitcher, and if we assume his alchemy is based on lighting to shock-start his creations (like Frankenstein's Monster), then the red identity works. The word "necro" is misleading, but he is still raising the dead (but not through black-mana means).
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Dominian Scholar of the Old Guard, specializing in pre-revisionist (Armada comics) and revisionist (Brothers' War through Apocalypse)history
Yeah, I personally like the fact that he defies the convention of necromancy being a Black thing (especially since he's in Black's friendly colors). In my mind, it never needed justification. All too often people seem to think of the color identities as fixed and eternal, but color bending has always happened and Innistrad is a perfect case study. It has its own unique conventions of what the colors mean and what kinds of motivations are associated with them that are very different from other planes and sets. In fact, I would say that the colors have slightly different connotations in every block and every plane, but some are more obvious about it than others. Most of the time Black is the color of death, but in/on Innistrad death is everywhere so Black becomes the color of demonic forces and contracts; whereas the Necro-Alchemists are Blue (and in this case, Blue-Red) because they make a mockery of life through the use of SCIENCE! I think Mary Shelly would approve.
The outrage over Ludevic unfortunately reminds me of arguments D&D players get into over the Alignment System of that game. I don't think there is one right answer; here necromancy is a Blue thing with a Blue twist and flavor (plus a dash of Red, possibly as an homage to the Izzet). Sometimes raising the dead is White or even Green in a few cards, but it works as long as it feels White or Green (as in, dealing with spirits or true resurrection spells in White, or dealing with fungus zombies in Green or whatever else comes to mind). Considering that the four color commanders demonstrate how much all of the colors actually have in common, sometimes, its best to just roll with it.
I was expecting Ludevic to be in black as well, but it sort of makes sense for him to just be UR. he isn't doing stuff for selfish reasons either.
That said, I think his card is aweful and doesn't make much sense for him at all.
I understand they were playing off of how he is sort of a merchant and they wanted him to fit in the altruistic deck, but come on. I think his ability definitely should have involved something with the graveyard at least. or showcase bursts of creativity, like many izzet cards do
I don't understand. Was it an issue of too much time being allotted to coming up with the 15 partner legends? Did that take too much time? I mean, I'm just severely disappointed that we likely aren't getting a single C16 story. This sucks, especially after last night.
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Vorthos-player with way too much time on his hands and a love of thematic decks.
EDH - Yes, Each One is Named After a Song. I love tying music to my decks.
Take discussion of the Kaladesh Planeswalker Guide or Making of articles to Kaladesh General. I'm renaming this specifically for Commander 2016, since it appears today was the last piece before Aether Revolt begins.
Frankly, none of the articles published for the last three weeks counts as a "Story" to me.
I'd be less annoyed if they have just said "Sorry guys, no stories between Kaladesh and Aether Revolt." than calling this.... filler "story."
It made sense when it was Savor the Flavor or Uncharted Realms. I get using the slot for creative articles, but retitling 'Magic Story' obviously doesn't help with the perception that flavor articles are okay.
I'm genuinely surprised and disappointed we aren't seeming to get a real Commander story :/
Frankly, none of the articles published for the last three weeks counts as a "Story" to me.
I'd be less annoyed if they have just said "Sorry guys, no stories between Kaladesh and Aether Revolt." than calling this.... filler "story."
It made sense when it was Savor the Flavor or Uncharted Realms. I get using the slot for creative articles, but retitling 'Magic Story' obviously doesn't help with the perception that flavor articles are okay.
I'm genuinely surprised and disappointed we aren't seeming to get a real Commander story :/
It's more disappointing than last year. We had a mere two stories, and a bunch of interesting commanders that needed more story time in my opinion. But this year, it just sucks.
Publishing articles like this in the Story category just feels like one big insult towards the Vorthos community.
No it isn't. It's midldy annoying, sure, but I don't consider not getting something that I am not entitled to through a purchase or contract to be a "big insult". People really need to calm down.
I agree with Oathbound though. They could have just told us "no Magic stories in the next five weeks" and it would have been fine.
I was looking forward to a Kynaios and Tiro story. And 5 weeks was perfect for one story each. They didn't even give us a head up about the disappointment.
They could at least give a story to some of the brand new legendary characters... Like Tana, the Bloodsower, they introduced her as a female Mowgli rised by saprolings. Nothing else, nothing interesting about her. Not even saying which is her own plane!
Or Atraxa, Praetors' Voice was introduced as a character that could very well use a back story... A spooky one at that, perfect for halloween season. Danm, I would really dig into a story of an angel capable of single-handedly keeping at bay a phyrexian army getting captured and compleated. Instead it all boiled down to "she was good, now she is not".
Not getting any story on the new legendaries was disappointing. Not getting a new story AT ALL is even more so.
I was itching for an Atraxa story because: 1) New Phyrexia update, maybe; and 2) How did four praetors get together to work on an angel that has almost no resemblance to any praetor but Elesh?
I really needed that explained. It seemed to me from what I could glean that Elesh rose to the top to lead New Phyrexia. The Danes or whatever they were called of Black were infighting, so doubtful Sheoldred rose to rule. Gitaxias and the green praetor whose name escapes me also didn't appear to be ruling the plane. So if Elesh thinks everything has to be sutured into the machine orthodoxy, and she rose to the top, why would she invite 'lesser' beings to give input on one creation, that looked white and enamel-plated in the end anyway?
The Danes or whatever they were called of Black were infighting
I always knew they were evil!
Elesh Norn is indeed New Phyrexia's ruler as far as we can tell, since she murdered Sheoldred and Urabrask. However, Creative is being frustratingly vague about this. I though Atraxa might had clarified things a bit, but they decided to make her yet another corrupted angel from the war days.
Sometimes I wonder is Creative is being run by amoebas.
The Danes or whatever they were called of Black were infighting
I always knew they were evil!
Elesh Norn is indeed New Phyrexia's ruler as far as we can tell, since she murdered Sheoldred and Urabrask. However, Creative is being frustratingly vague about this. I though Atraxa might had clarified things a bit, but they decided to make her yet another corrupted angel from the war days.
It was said she annexed their regions, not that she murdered them.
Plus, we don't know where Atraxa fits chronologically. It could be she's from before the events of Theros (or whenever Elspeth wrote that letter). Still, I'm pretty sure Sheoldred and Urabrask are not dead yet.
Another thing, as for why Atraxa has the "white phyrexian" aesthetics, similar to Soul of New Phyrexia, my guess is that while Elesh is ruling the plane, she still uses the other praetors as vassals, with semi-autonomous control over their own domains. This explains why the other factions still exist and yet why New Phyrexia as a whole seems to be modeled after the white one in particular.
On the whole Heliod debate, let's just all agree Kruphix is the real g and not worry about it
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
I think they're just waiting for the opportunity to ignite a planeswalker who's totally lost... as opposed to one always anchored by paperwork...
Seriously though, I think the main issue was 4-colored pretty much demanded a bottom-up build and we all know that we all want featured Legendary creatures to be top-down designs, hence the number of "misses" that seem to appear in this set,
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Exactly. I don't know why everyone was expecting him to have black. Granted, I wish he did something mechanically with zombies, but he's right at home in BlUE/REd
Yes, it makes him evil, but it makes him a specifically White kind of evil. Murdering an innocent person because they might do something bad in the future is a very White action to take. After all, the needs of the common good must come before the needs of the individual, and if killing one person now can even potentially save hundreds of lives down the road, that's a worthwhile sacrifice to make.
Also, not sure what Hitler's color alignment would be, but the Nazis as an organization would definitely be White.
Because of him being referred as the NECRO-alchemist? ;-)
That said, I second Kruphix7. The more I think about it, the more sense it makes. After all, he is - and ever was - indeed the "mad scientist" archetype, a dr. Frankenstein of Innistrad. It is just the unfortunate clearly black-connotated "necro" part that made people expect something different than UR.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
The outrage over Ludevic unfortunately reminds me of arguments D&D players get into over the Alignment System of that game. I don't think there is one right answer; here necromancy is a Blue thing with a Blue twist and flavor (plus a dash of Red, possibly as an homage to the Izzet). Sometimes raising the dead is White or even Green in a few cards, but it works as long as it feels White or Green (as in, dealing with spirits or true resurrection spells in White, or dealing with fungus zombies in Green or whatever else comes to mind). Considering that the four color commanders demonstrate how much all of the colors actually have in common, sometimes, its best to just roll with it.
That said, I think his card is aweful and doesn't make much sense for him at all.
I understand they were playing off of how he is sort of a merchant and they wanted him to fit in the altruistic deck, but come on. I think his ability definitely should have involved something with the graveyard at least. or showcase bursts of creativity, like many izzet cards do
Was definitely looking forward to a story today, considering the election outcome, and this is what we have
It's just frustrating that all these new legends are released brimming with story potential, and all we get is *more* info on Kaladesh.
- The art of Kaladesh
- The art of the Gatewatch
- How they came up with the Gatewatch
- How they got Chandra's hair right
- How they managed to make the storyline so boring
EDH - Yes, Each One is Named After a Song. I love tying music to my decks.
B Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief B - Fear of the Dark
WG Sigarda, Heron's Grace WG - Strength in Numbers
RG Xenagos, God of Revels RG - Fullmoon (It's werewolves)
RW Archangel Avacyn // Avacyn, the Purifier RW - The End is Nigh
60 Card Kitchen Table Decks
WUB Avacyn, Spirit Ferrier
RG Arlinn Kord's Howlpack
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Frankly, none of the articles published for the last three weeks counts as a "Story" to me.
I'd be less annoyed if they have just said "Sorry guys, no stories between Kaladesh and Aether Revolt." than calling this.... filler "story."
I'm genuinely surprised and disappointed we aren't seeming to get a real Commander story :/
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
It's more disappointing than last year. We had a mere two stories, and a bunch of interesting commanders that needed more story time in my opinion. But this year, it just sucks.
No it isn't. It's midldy annoying, sure, but I don't consider not getting something that I am not entitled to through a purchase or contract to be a "big insult". People really need to calm down.
I agree with Oathbound though. They could have just told us "no Magic stories in the next five weeks" and it would have been fine.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I was itching for an Atraxa story because: 1) New Phyrexia update, maybe; and 2) How did four praetors get together to work on an angel that has almost no resemblance to any praetor but Elesh?
I really needed that explained. It seemed to me from what I could glean that Elesh rose to the top to lead New Phyrexia. The Danes or whatever they were called of Black were infighting, so doubtful Sheoldred rose to rule. Gitaxias and the green praetor whose name escapes me also didn't appear to be ruling the plane. So if Elesh thinks everything has to be sutured into the machine orthodoxy, and she rose to the top, why would she invite 'lesser' beings to give input on one creation, that looked white and enamel-plated in the end anyway?
And now I have been robbed of an explanation!
I always knew they were evil!
Elesh Norn is indeed New Phyrexia's ruler as far as we can tell, since she murdered Sheoldred and Urabrask. However, Creative is being frustratingly vague about this. I though Atraxa might had clarified things a bit, but they decided to make her yet another corrupted angel from the war days.
Sometimes I wonder is Creative is being run by amoebas.
It was said she annexed their regions, not that she murdered them.
Plus, we don't know where Atraxa fits chronologically. It could be she's from before the events of Theros (or whenever Elspeth wrote that letter). Still, I'm pretty sure Sheoldred and Urabrask are not dead yet.
Another thing, as for why Atraxa has the "white phyrexian" aesthetics, similar to Soul of New Phyrexia, my guess is that while Elesh is ruling the plane, she still uses the other praetors as vassals, with semi-autonomous control over their own domains. This explains why the other factions still exist and yet why New Phyrexia as a whole seems to be modeled after the white one in particular.