Where does it says that neowalkers are not immune to phyrexian oil? Then why Venser's spark deleted every trace of phyrexian oil and body attachment from Karn?
All of the walkers from Scars gained immunity from Melira during the story. Karn was purged of Phyrexian taint, by Melira, but his mind was still shattered. So when Venser gave him his spark it fixed him. Don't ask how it was one of the worst parts of magic story ever.
So recap, Neowalkers aren't immune to phyrexian oil and the book Quest for Karn was awful but as far as we know cannon.
In the web comic showing Tezzeret going to Mirrodin, he gets a shot that would slow/stop him from getting completed for a short time and then he captured Melira and I believe gained the fully immunity.
Melira is able to heal the Phyrexian influence but not if someone who's heart is tainted which Karn was at that point. Veneer then teleported his heart/spark into Karn to 100% heal him, made Karn a walker again and Venser died as a result.
Recall, it's also a shot from Nicol Bolas. Not exactly the most trustworthy of sources.
I mean sure but why would Bolas send an agent only for said agent to end up completed and no longer loyal/useful and potentially harmful?
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"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Recall, it's also a shot from Nicol Bolas. Not exactly the most trustworthy of sources.
I mean sure but why would Bolas send an agent only for said agent to end up completed and no longer loyal/useful and potentially harmful?
Well, two things.
1) That relies on the assumption that Planeswalkers can be corrupted. Which has been established so far as not the case (neither Elspeth, Koth, nor Venser demonstrated any aspect of compleation before meeting with Melira, despite encountering numerous sources of Glistening Oil. And Koth, like Venser, also has metal body-parts, so that wouldn't be a reasoning for it.) Karn's corruption stemmed from the loss of his Planeswalker spark, and the revival of it through Venser cleansed the oil from his body.
2) Even if, due to a weird retcon, a Planeswalker could be compleated, they would lose their spark in the process, because it's a well-established part of the lore that Phyrexians cannot Planeswalk. They need some other device in order to. And someone who'd seen the first go-around of Phyrexians would probably know that. In which case, Bolas would be trapping a troublesome errand-boy on a dead world.
Well, two things.
1) That relies on the assumption that Planeswalkers can be corrupted. Which has been established so far as not the case (neither Elspeth, Koth, nor Venser demonstrated any aspect of compleation before meeting with Melira, despite encountering numerous sources of Glistening Oil. And Koth, like Venser, also has metal body-parts, so that wouldn't be a reasoning for it.) Karn's corruption stemmed from the loss of his Planeswalker spark, and the revival of it through Venser cleansed the oil from his body.
2) Even if, due to a weird retcon, a Planeswalker could be compleated, they would lose their spark in the process, because it's a well-established part of the lore that Phyrexians cannot Planeswalk. They need some other device in order to. And someone who'd seen the first go-around of Phyrexians would probably know that. In which case, Bolas would be trapping a troublesome errand-boy on a dead world.
So either way would be a win-win for him.
There has never been any indication that planeswalkers can't be compleated. I have no idea where this rumor started or how it became an assumed fact, but it isn't the case. The glistening oil doesn't instantaneously compleat a person on contact so Elspeth, Koth and Venser not showing signs is irrelevant because they weren't exposed for long before gaining immunity from Melira. The spark doesn't survive compleation, usually because compleation usually involves death but doesn't have to, so its true if Bolas wanted an incredibly convoluted way of keeping Tezzert on a single plane forever, tricking him into being compleated would be a way, and Bolas isn't above convoluted.
Please stop assuming planeswalkers can't be compleated or site a viable source, I can't find anything that even hints at this with all relevant sources implying the opposite.
Recall, it's also a shot from Nicol Bolas. Not exactly the most trustworthy of sources.
I mean sure but why would Bolas send an agent only for said agent to end up completed and no longer loyal/useful and potentially harmful?
2) Even if, due to a weird retcon, a Planeswalker could be compleated, they would lose their spark in the process, because it's a well-established part of the lore that Phyrexians cannot Planeswalk. They need some other device in order to. And someone who'd seen the first go-around of Phyrexians would probably know that. In which case, Bolas would be trapping a troublesome errand-boy on a dead world.
So either way would be a win-win for him.
Putting on my old man hat for a moment.
Phyrexians came from the Thran. Yawgmoth and a huge piece of the Thran population were locked away on Phyrexia away from Dominaria. Yawgmoth had already been using the (non-sentient) oil and other procedures to make the first generation of Phyrexians. Notably, they did not have to die to begin the process of compleation.
Yawgmoth was obsessed with planeswalker sparks. He believed they were physical, an organ or something. He cut apart a walker looking for it. Glacian, a potential walker, had his spark infuse a power stone. From this, we can infer walkers were exceedingly rare.
Yawgmoth, then, is trapped on a plane with no known walkers, and I imagine he investigated every Thran person to see if they could be walkers. Over the millenia, there's only so much flesh, so the Phyrexians reprocessed flesh and living things to create new things. Admittedly, you were not likely to 'live' through being reprocessed.
So, there's no proof whatsoever that a person with a spark who undergoes non-lethal compleation would be unable to planeswalk, and so it's not established as fact that they can ONLY walk by way of portals.
What we need, as an experiment, is a person with a spark undergoing non-lethal compleation. Only way to know for sure.
That being said, who knows what the retconned sentient oil can do.
Oldwalkers are pretty explicitly incampable of being compleated. They did not have physical bodies, and indeed they have interacted with phyrexian things and even gone to Phyrexia itself.
Neowalkers are a different matter, but I believe the "planeswalker's can't be compleated" has become enough of a meme for Creative to obey, even if it made some sense.
That said, either Doug or Maro has outright confirmed that phyrexians can't hold a spark because they're constantly ripping themselves apart and adding in things from other beings, not having a consistent, permanent body.
Oldwalkers are pretty explicitly incampable of being compleated. They did not have physical bodies, and indeed they have interacted with phyrexian things and even gone to Phyrexia itself.
Neowalkers are a different matter, but I believe the "planeswalker's can't be compleated" has become enough of a meme for Creative to obey, even if it made some sense.
That said, either Doug or Maro has outright confirmed that phyrexians can't hold a spark because they're constantly ripping themselves apart and adding in things from other beings, not having a consistent, permanent body.
The old walkers being un-compleatable is a misnomer. They didn't really have physical bodies unless they forgot that they didn't so it wasn't the spark itself that made them immune to compleation but a byproduct of not being bound to a physical form. So as long as they were capable of thinking they would not be in something that can be corrupted but being former mortals they would forget all the time, and this would lead to death for faster than it lead to compleation so its more of a non-issue than a fact. An oldwalker would have to let themselves be compleated, which would lead to their death so its a moot point
Well, two things.
1) That relies on the assumption that Planeswalkers can be corrupted. Which has been established so far as not the case (neither Elspeth, Koth, nor Venser demonstrated any aspect of compleation before meeting with Melira, despite encountering numerous sources of Glistening Oil. And Koth, like Venser, also has metal body-parts, so that wouldn't be a reasoning for it.) Karn's corruption stemmed from the loss of his Planeswalker spark, and the revival of it through Venser cleansed the oil from his body.
2) Even if, due to a weird retcon, a Planeswalker could be compleated, they would lose their spark in the process, because it's a well-established part of the lore that Phyrexians cannot Planeswalk. They need some other device in order to. And someone who'd seen the first go-around of Phyrexians would probably know that. In which case, Bolas would be trapping a troublesome errand-boy on a dead world.
So either way would be a win-win for him.
There has never been any indication that planeswalkers can't be compleated. I have no idea where this rumor started or how it became an assumed fact, but it isn't the case. The glistening oil doesn't instantaneously compleat a person on contact so Elspeth, Koth and Venser not showing signs is irrelevant because they weren't exposed for long before gaining immunity from Melira. The spark doesn't survive compleation, usually because compleation usually involves death but doesn't have to, so its true if Bolas wanted an incredibly convoluted way of keeping Tezzert on a single plane forever, tricking him into being compleated would be a way, and Bolas isn't above convoluted.
Please stop assuming planeswalkers can't be compleated or site a viable source, I can't find anything that even hints at this with all relevant sources implying the opposite.
Karn is a pretty clear indicator that the Spark really puts a hamper on Compleation. Melira could cleanse the body, but only the Spark purified the heart, and stopped Karn's Compleation.
As for a "viable source" I'm not really sure there are any for this period of Magic anymore. Broad strokes storytelling, and what not. I could cite Quest for Karn, but 1) who knows how accurate it would even be at this stage, and 2) I'm not masochistic enough to go through the novel again.
Well, two things.
1) That relies on the assumption that Planeswalkers can be corrupted. Which has been established so far as not the case (neither Elspeth, Koth, nor Venser demonstrated any aspect of compleation before meeting with Melira, despite encountering numerous sources of Glistening Oil. And Koth, like Venser, also has metal body-parts, so that wouldn't be a reasoning for it.) Karn's corruption stemmed from the loss of his Planeswalker spark, and the revival of it through Venser cleansed the oil from his body.
2) Even if, due to a weird retcon, a Planeswalker could be compleated, they would lose their spark in the process, because it's a well-established part of the lore that Phyrexians cannot Planeswalk. They need some other device in order to. And someone who'd seen the first go-around of Phyrexians would probably know that. In which case, Bolas would be trapping a troublesome errand-boy on a dead world.
So either way would be a win-win for him.
There has never been any indication that planeswalkers can't be compleated. I have no idea where this rumor started or how it became an assumed fact, but it isn't the case. The glistening oil doesn't instantaneously compleat a person on contact so Elspeth, Koth and Venser not showing signs is irrelevant because they weren't exposed for long before gaining immunity from Melira. The spark doesn't survive compleation, usually because compleation usually involves death but doesn't have to, so its true if Bolas wanted an incredibly convoluted way of keeping Tezzert on a single plane forever, tricking him into being compleated would be a way, and Bolas isn't above convoluted.
Please stop assuming planeswalkers can't be compleated or site a viable source, I can't find anything that even hints at this with all relevant sources implying the opposite.
Karn is a pretty clear indicator that the Spark really puts a hamper on Compleation. Melira could cleanse the body, but only the Spark purified the heart, and stopped Karn's Compleation.
As for a "viable source" I'm not really sure there are any for this period of Magic anymore. Broad strokes storytelling, and what not. I could cite Quest for Karn, but 1) who knows how accurate it would even be at this stage, and 2) I'm not masochistic enough to go through the novel again.
IIRC Venser gave his heart to Karn and that his spark went with the heart. It wasn't the spark the cured him but Venser heart, which is why Venser died right after. Either way it all comes from the Quest for Karn, which like you said, the canon of it all is debatable.
I'd like to point out that what is canon, the web comic, shows Tezzeret getting a shot from a vedalken who told Tezzeret it would be a temporary immunity to being completed. You think it might have been a trick of bolas, if it was the case, then why else show that scene?
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"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Well, two things.
1) That relies on the assumption that Planeswalkers can be corrupted. Which has been established so far as not the case (neither Elspeth, Koth, nor Venser demonstrated any aspect of compleation before meeting with Melira, despite encountering numerous sources of Glistening Oil. And Koth, like Venser, also has metal body-parts, so that wouldn't be a reasoning for it.) Karn's corruption stemmed from the loss of his Planeswalker spark, and the revival of it through Venser cleansed the oil from his body.
2) Even if, due to a weird retcon, a Planeswalker could be compleated, they would lose their spark in the process, because it's a well-established part of the lore that Phyrexians cannot Planeswalk. They need some other device in order to. And someone who'd seen the first go-around of Phyrexians would probably know that. In which case, Bolas would be trapping a troublesome errand-boy on a dead world.
So either way would be a win-win for him.
There has never been any indication that planeswalkers can't be compleated. I have no idea where this rumor started or how it became an assumed fact, but it isn't the case. The glistening oil doesn't instantaneously compleat a person on contact so Elspeth, Koth and Venser not showing signs is irrelevant because they weren't exposed for long before gaining immunity from Melira. The spark doesn't survive compleation, usually because compleation usually involves death but doesn't have to, so its true if Bolas wanted an incredibly convoluted way of keeping Tezzert on a single plane forever, tricking him into being compleated would be a way, and Bolas isn't above convoluted.
Please stop assuming planeswalkers can't be compleated or site a viable source, I can't find anything that even hints at this with all relevant sources implying the opposite.
Karn is a pretty clear indicator that the Spark really puts a hamper on Compleation. Melira could cleanse the body, but only the Spark purified the heart, and stopped Karn's Compleation.
As for a "viable source" I'm not really sure there are any for this period of Magic anymore. Broad strokes storytelling, and what not. I could cite Quest for Karn, but 1) who knows how accurate it would even be at this stage, and 2) I'm not masochistic enough to go through the novel again.
You could quote Quest for Karn, but you would be quoting against your argument, because in that story the walkers receive immunity from Melira. So they weren't immune before that.
Oldwalkers are pretty explicitly incampable of being compleated. They did not have physical bodies, and indeed they have interacted with phyrexian things and even gone to Phyrexia itself.
Neowalkers are a different matter, but I believe the "planeswalker's can't be compleated" has become enough of a meme for Creative to obey, even if it made some sense.
That said, either Doug or Maro has outright confirmed that phyrexians can't hold a spark because they're constantly ripping themselves apart and adding in things from other beings, not having a consistent, permanent body.
As it relates to my earlier point, old walkers would need their spark to ignite to become planeswalkers. But, correct me if I'm wrong, I think Dyfed could sense Glacian had the unignited spark.
So as a hypothetical, if an ancient Thran trapped with Yawgmoth on Phyrexia had a latent spark, they are alive but not a walker yet. Let's call him Bob. Bob begins the process of compleation. Again, the original generation of Phyrexians were enhanced, not torn apart and put back together. So Bob is still alive when he gets cool claws and horns and arms.
Then Bob almost gets stomped on by a dragon engine. Freaks out! Spark ignites! And the spark *can* ignite, because he never died (and even so, it could spark in response to violent death, I think) and lost his spark. So Bob becomes an oldwalker compleated Phyrexian, but in becoming an oldwalker, he loses all physical manifestation unless he wants it. Now Bob can look like Beyoncé or a vat priest if he wants.
So a latent planeswalker could, as original generation Phyrexian, be compleated and still retain a spark. It gets harder for successive generations of Phyrexians who are torn apart and put back together. But even if sparked once compleated, yes, they would lose physical form unless they wanted it (or someone stabbed them in the head and scrambled their brain, like Dyfed)(Also, original Karn planeswalker art from the Apocalypse book had him looking like a creepy human mannequin, and not the golem we see today; if a golem can become a walker, why not an enhanced latent walker?)
Fast forward to New Phyrexia. There's someone who once had a latent spark (I think, Mirrodin story was a confusing time for me): Glissa. As an example, look at compleated Glissa in NP. Does she look torn apart and put back together? Not to me. She just looks enhanced, like first generation Phyrexian Bob. If she's only enhanced, and if she still had a spark, it could feasibly ignite with her enhancements, making her a Phyrexian neowalker. (If Ashiok can be a walker with half a head missing, Phyrexian enhanced Glissa could too, I argue)
If the following things are true:
1) Tezzeret got an injection to ward off compleation (news to me, but I saw it in this forum thread);
2) Elspeth and friends received their immunity from Melira (couldn't make myself read the book, so I'm trusting you all);
3) Neowalkers are largely biological with an expiration date; and
4) The new retconned Phyrexian oil can corrupt flesh (but can't tear things apart and put them together. This is an important point: The oil needed to corrupt/enhance living things before it could get those living things to kick start the compleation of other living things, so the vanguard of New Phyrexians were likely Bob-like),
Then it stands to reason that neowalkers, as biological creatures, are susceptible to the corrupting influence of the oil, since the oil does not kill them or tear them apart. Why else get injected and protected from it if it could not compleat you?
And therefore, I submit to you all (man I sound like I'm defending a thesis) that a neowalker can be corrupted by the oil, but that corruption need not be equated with horrid body tearing compleation, and may only result in increased strength, size, stamina, or other minor mutations at the low end of noticeability, with maybe some mind control. Thus, while Elspeth is unlikely to be compleated, had she not been immunized she could be carrying corruption inside of her like a dormant disease.
And therefore, if the injection Tezzeret was given was bogus, he could be carrying dormant corruption within himself. 2spooky
Correct-ish, there is currently nothing stopping neowalkers from becoming compleated, though Maro(not the greatest source of story information but a source) has said that simply being a phyrexian means you can't have a spark. All who have currently come into contact with new phyrexia have received immunity from Melira. Venser, Koth, Elspeth, and Karn received it when she gained the ability to spread her immunity, while Tezzeret stole some of her organs and did things with them. So even if the injection he got here(first page) was bogus he still would be immune.
Oldwalkers are pretty explicitly incampable of being compleated. They did not have physical bodies, and indeed they have interacted with phyrexian things and even gone to Phyrexia itself.
Neowalkers are a different matter, but I believe the "planeswalker's can't be compleated" has become enough of a meme for Creative to obey, even if it made some sense.
That said, either Doug or Maro has outright confirmed that phyrexians can't hold a spark because they're constantly ripping themselves apart and adding in things from other beings, not having a consistent, permanent body.
The old walkers being un-compleatable is a misnomer. They didn't really have physical bodies unless they forgot that they didn't so it wasn't the spark itself that made them immune to compleation but a byproduct of not being bound to a physical form. So as long as they were capable of thinking they would not be in something that can be corrupted but being former mortals they would forget all the time, and this would lead to death for faster than it lead to compleation so its more of a non-issue than a fact. An oldwalker would have to let themselves be compleated, which would lead to their death so its a moot point
Yes, that is basically what I said. Oldwalkers, being basically magic holograms, cannot be compleated. However, because the "planeswalkers can't be phyrexian" meme has ingrained in Creative, neowalkers are most likely exempt from compleation (probably via retconning something).
Oldwalkers are pretty explicitly incampable of being compleated. They did not have physical bodies, and indeed they have interacted with phyrexian things and even gone to Phyrexia itself.
Neowalkers are a different matter, but I believe the "planeswalker's can't be compleated" has become enough of a meme for Creative to obey, even if it made some sense.
That said, either Doug or Maro has outright confirmed that phyrexians can't hold a spark because they're constantly ripping themselves apart and adding in things from other beings, not having a consistent, permanent body.
As it relates to my earlier point, old walkers would need their spark to ignite to become planeswalkers. But, correct me if I'm wrong, I think Dyfed could sense Glacian had the unignited spark.
So as a hypothetical, if an ancient Thran trapped with Yawgmoth on Phyrexia had a latent spark, they are alive but not a walker yet. Let's call him Bob. Bob begins the process of compleation. Again, the original generation of Phyrexians were enhanced, not torn apart and put back together. So Bob is still alive when he gets cool claws and horns and arms.
Then Bob almost gets stomped on by a dragon engine. Freaks out! Spark ignites! And the spark *can* ignite, because he never died (and even so, it could spark in response to violent death, I think) and lost his spark. So Bob becomes an oldwalker compleated Phyrexian, but in becoming an oldwalker, he loses all physical manifestation unless he wants it. Now Bob can look like Beyoncé or a vat priest if he wants.
So a latent planeswalker could, as original generation Phyrexian, be compleated and still retain a spark. It gets harder for successive generations of Phyrexians who are torn apart and put back together. But even if sparked once compleated, yes, they would lose physical form unless they wanted it (or someone stabbed them in the head and scrambled their brain, like Dyfed)(Also, original Karn planeswalker art from the Apocalypse book had him looking like a creepy human mannequin, and not the golem we see today; if a golem can become a walker, why not an enhanced latent walker?)
Fast forward to New Phyrexia. There's someone who once had a latent spark (I think, Mirrodin story was a confusing time for me): Glissa. As an example, look at compleated Glissa in NP. Does she look torn apart and put back together? Not to me. She just looks enhanced, like first generation Phyrexian Bob. If she's only enhanced, and if she still had a spark, it could feasibly ignite with her enhancements, making her a Phyrexian neowalker. (If Ashiok can be a walker with half a head missing, Phyrexian enhanced Glissa could too, I argue)
If the following things are true:
1) Tezzeret got an injection to ward off compleation (news to me, but I saw it in this forum thread);
2) Elspeth and friends received their immunity from Melira (couldn't make myself read the book, so I'm trusting you all);
3) Neowalkers are largely biological with an expiration date; and
4) The new retconned Phyrexian oil can corrupt flesh (but can't tear things apart and put them together. This is an important point: The oil needed to corrupt/enhance living things before it could get those living things to kick start the compleation of other living things, so the vanguard of New Phyrexians were likely Bob-like),
Then it stands to reason that neowalkers, as biological creatures, are susceptible to the corrupting influence of the oil, since the oil does not kill them or tear them apart. Why else get injected and protected from it if it could not compleat you?
And therefore, I submit to you all (man I sound like I'm defending a thesis) that a neowalker can be corrupted by the oil, but that corruption need not be equated with horrid body tearing compleation, and may only result in increased strength, size, stamina, or other minor mutations at the low end of noticeability, with maybe some mind control. Thus, while Elspeth is unlikely to be compleated, had she not been immunized she could be carrying corruption inside of her like a dormant disease.
And therefore, if the injection Tezzeret was given was bogus, he could be carrying dormant corruption within himself. 2spooky
(Typed this on my phone, bound to have errors)
I don't doubt that a phyrexian who hasn't been mixing and matching body parts could hypothetically hold a spark, but still its strange that Yawgmoth wasn't able to make use of phyrexianised planeswalkers for five millenia.
Oldwalkers are pretty explicitly incampable of being compleated. They did not have physical bodies, and indeed they have interacted with phyrexian things and even gone to Phyrexia itself.
Neowalkers are a different matter, but I believe the "planeswalker's can't be compleated" has become enough of a meme for Creative to obey, even if it made some sense.
That said, either Doug or Maro has outright confirmed that phyrexians can't hold a spark because they're constantly ripping themselves apart and adding in things from other beings, not having a consistent, permanent body.
The old walkers being un-compleatable is a misnomer. They didn't really have physical bodies unless they forgot that they didn't so it wasn't the spark itself that made them immune to compleation but a byproduct of not being bound to a physical form. So as long as they were capable of thinking they would not be in something that can be corrupted but being former mortals they would forget all the time, and this would lead to death for faster than it lead to compleation so its more of a non-issue than a fact. An oldwalker would have to let themselves be compleated, which would lead to their death so its a moot point
Yes, that is basically what I said. Oldwalkers, being basically magic holograms, cannot be compleated. However, because the "planeswalkers can't be phyrexian" meme has ingrained in Creative, neowalkers are most likely exempt from compleation (probably via retconning something).
You've missed my point. The "planeswalkers can't be phyrexian" meme is definitely ingrained deep in creative but more as "phyrexian's can't be planeswalkers" which is to say if any of the neowalkers become compleated they will no longer be walkers, rather than none of them will ever be compleated.
Pretty sure that "PWs cannot be phyrexianised" and " Phyrexians cannot hold a spark", more than being consistent in-world logic, is simply an established plot device that explains why Phyrexians haven't taken over the multiverse already. Trying to explain it away or use it to explain niche cases where a phyrexian could planeswalk will always default into null. Whether PWs /can/ be phyrexianised is moot as the story lords could never allow it. Best I can see coming out of such outcome is that PW being killed or killing themselves on the spot.
The moment a phyrexian planeswalks the whole multiverse is toast as s/he could quickly jump from plane to plane leaving some oil in each.
I'm calling it right now- worst rare in the set. Even good limited players will find better bombs at common and uncommon no sweat. Worst. Episode. Ever.
I really do predict this to be our worst rare in set award winner. I'd be happier opening a jar of eyeballs, so I think anything worse is highly unlikely. This card wont just have zero constructed potential, but not be significantly better than a mass of ghouls in a draft.
Pretty sure that "PWs cannot be phyrexianised" and " Phyrexians cannot hold a spark", more than being consistent in-world logic,
Yes and no. The story issues you have are valid, but it does make sense in world logic that "Phyrexians cannot hold a spark". Completion (not just the exchanging of body parts) kills the spark the same way death/being turned into undead creature does.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Pretty sure that "PWs cannot be phyrexianised" and " Phyrexians cannot hold a spark", more than being consistent in-world logic,
Yes and no. The story issues you have are valid, but it does make sense in world logic that "Phyrexians cannot hold a spark". Completion (not just the exchanging of body parts) kills the spark the same way death/being turned into undead creature does.
Yeah, that part is logical. What I'm saying is that it doesn't work when you deconstruct that logic to try to imagine exceptions or loopholes that allow a phyraxianised planeswalker. Regardless of logic or imaginable niche cases, that's something that cannot happen from a continuous storytelling perspective.
I'm calling it right now- worst rare in the set. Even good limited players will find better bombs at common and uncommon no sweat. Worst. Episode. Ever.
I really do predict this to be our worst rare in set award winner. I'd be happier opening a jar of eyeballs, so I think anything worse is highly unlikely. This card wont just have zero constructed potential, but not be significantly better than a mass of ghouls in a draft.
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I mean sure but why would Bolas send an agent only for said agent to end up completed and no longer loyal/useful and potentially harmful?
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Well, two things.
1) That relies on the assumption that Planeswalkers can be corrupted. Which has been established so far as not the case (neither Elspeth, Koth, nor Venser demonstrated any aspect of compleation before meeting with Melira, despite encountering numerous sources of Glistening Oil. And Koth, like Venser, also has metal body-parts, so that wouldn't be a reasoning for it.) Karn's corruption stemmed from the loss of his Planeswalker spark, and the revival of it through Venser cleansed the oil from his body.
2) Even if, due to a weird retcon, a Planeswalker could be compleated, they would lose their spark in the process, because it's a well-established part of the lore that Phyrexians cannot Planeswalk. They need some other device in order to. And someone who'd seen the first go-around of Phyrexians would probably know that. In which case, Bolas would be trapping a troublesome errand-boy on a dead world.
So either way would be a win-win for him.
Please stop assuming planeswalkers can't be compleated or site a viable source, I can't find anything that even hints at this with all relevant sources implying the opposite.
Putting on my old man hat for a moment.
Phyrexians came from the Thran. Yawgmoth and a huge piece of the Thran population were locked away on Phyrexia away from Dominaria. Yawgmoth had already been using the (non-sentient) oil and other procedures to make the first generation of Phyrexians. Notably, they did not have to die to begin the process of compleation.
Yawgmoth was obsessed with planeswalker sparks. He believed they were physical, an organ or something. He cut apart a walker looking for it. Glacian, a potential walker, had his spark infuse a power stone. From this, we can infer walkers were exceedingly rare.
Yawgmoth, then, is trapped on a plane with no known walkers, and I imagine he investigated every Thran person to see if they could be walkers. Over the millenia, there's only so much flesh, so the Phyrexians reprocessed flesh and living things to create new things. Admittedly, you were not likely to 'live' through being reprocessed.
So, there's no proof whatsoever that a person with a spark who undergoes non-lethal compleation would be unable to planeswalk, and so it's not established as fact that they can ONLY walk by way of portals.
What we need, as an experiment, is a person with a spark undergoing non-lethal compleation. Only way to know for sure.
That being said, who knows what the retconned sentient oil can do.
Neowalkers are a different matter, but I believe the "planeswalker's can't be compleated" has become enough of a meme for Creative to obey, even if it made some sense.
That said, either Doug or Maro has outright confirmed that phyrexians can't hold a spark because they're constantly ripping themselves apart and adding in things from other beings, not having a consistent, permanent body.
Karn is a pretty clear indicator that the Spark really puts a hamper on Compleation. Melira could cleanse the body, but only the Spark purified the heart, and stopped Karn's Compleation.
As for a "viable source" I'm not really sure there are any for this period of Magic anymore. Broad strokes storytelling, and what not. I could cite Quest for Karn, but 1) who knows how accurate it would even be at this stage, and 2) I'm not masochistic enough to go through the novel again.
IIRC Venser gave his heart to Karn and that his spark went with the heart. It wasn't the spark the cured him but Venser heart, which is why Venser died right after. Either way it all comes from the Quest for Karn, which like you said, the canon of it all is debatable.
I'd like to point out that what is canon, the web comic, shows Tezzeret getting a shot from a vedalken who told Tezzeret it would be a temporary immunity to being completed. You think it might have been a trick of bolas, if it was the case, then why else show that scene?
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
As it relates to my earlier point, old walkers would need their spark to ignite to become planeswalkers. But, correct me if I'm wrong, I think Dyfed could sense Glacian had the unignited spark.
So as a hypothetical, if an ancient Thran trapped with Yawgmoth on Phyrexia had a latent spark, they are alive but not a walker yet. Let's call him Bob. Bob begins the process of compleation. Again, the original generation of Phyrexians were enhanced, not torn apart and put back together. So Bob is still alive when he gets cool claws and horns and arms.
Then Bob almost gets stomped on by a dragon engine. Freaks out! Spark ignites! And the spark *can* ignite, because he never died (and even so, it could spark in response to violent death, I think) and lost his spark. So Bob becomes an oldwalker compleated Phyrexian, but in becoming an oldwalker, he loses all physical manifestation unless he wants it. Now Bob can look like Beyoncé or a vat priest if he wants.
So a latent planeswalker could, as original generation Phyrexian, be compleated and still retain a spark. It gets harder for successive generations of Phyrexians who are torn apart and put back together. But even if sparked once compleated, yes, they would lose physical form unless they wanted it (or someone stabbed them in the head and scrambled their brain, like Dyfed)(Also, original Karn planeswalker art from the Apocalypse book had him looking like a creepy human mannequin, and not the golem we see today; if a golem can become a walker, why not an enhanced latent walker?)
Fast forward to New Phyrexia. There's someone who once had a latent spark (I think, Mirrodin story was a confusing time for me): Glissa. As an example, look at compleated Glissa in NP. Does she look torn apart and put back together? Not to me. She just looks enhanced, like first generation Phyrexian Bob. If she's only enhanced, and if she still had a spark, it could feasibly ignite with her enhancements, making her a Phyrexian neowalker. (If Ashiok can be a walker with half a head missing, Phyrexian enhanced Glissa could too, I argue)
If the following things are true:
1) Tezzeret got an injection to ward off compleation (news to me, but I saw it in this forum thread);
2) Elspeth and friends received their immunity from Melira (couldn't make myself read the book, so I'm trusting you all);
3) Neowalkers are largely biological with an expiration date; and
4) The new retconned Phyrexian oil can corrupt flesh (but can't tear things apart and put them together. This is an important point: The oil needed to corrupt/enhance living things before it could get those living things to kick start the compleation of other living things, so the vanguard of New Phyrexians were likely Bob-like),
Then it stands to reason that neowalkers, as biological creatures, are susceptible to the corrupting influence of the oil, since the oil does not kill them or tear them apart. Why else get injected and protected from it if it could not compleat you?
And therefore, I submit to you all (man I sound like I'm defending a thesis) that a neowalker can be corrupted by the oil, but that corruption need not be equated with horrid body tearing compleation, and may only result in increased strength, size, stamina, or other minor mutations at the low end of noticeability, with maybe some mind control. Thus, while Elspeth is unlikely to be compleated, had she not been immunized she could be carrying corruption inside of her like a dormant disease.
And therefore, if the injection Tezzeret was given was bogus, he could be carrying dormant corruption within himself. 2spooky
(Typed this on my phone, bound to have errors)
Yes, that is basically what I said. Oldwalkers, being basically magic holograms, cannot be compleated. However, because the "planeswalkers can't be phyrexian" meme has ingrained in Creative, neowalkers are most likely exempt from compleation (probably via retconning something).
I don't doubt that a phyrexian who hasn't been mixing and matching body parts could hypothetically hold a spark, but still its strange that Yawgmoth wasn't able to make use of phyrexianised planeswalkers for five millenia.
The moment a phyrexian planeswalks the whole multiverse is toast as s/he could quickly jump from plane to plane leaving some oil in each.
Yes and no. The story issues you have are valid, but it does make sense in world logic that "Phyrexians cannot hold a spark". Completion (not just the exchanging of body parts) kills the spark the same way death/being turned into undead creature does.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Yeah, that part is logical. What I'm saying is that it doesn't work when you deconstruct that logic to try to imagine exceptions or loopholes that allow a phyraxianised planeswalker. Regardless of logic or imaginable niche cases, that's something that cannot happen from a continuous storytelling perspective.