Could the 3 Eldrazi titans have something to do with the 3 missing gods? I know its a stretch and the only thing I'm really going on here is the number 3. Does the timeline even allow for that to be a possibility? I'm just imagining that like 1000 years ago (or whenever) Bolas maybe came to Amonkhet and did something to the 3 missing gods that warped them and cast them off into the blind eternities. I know its a stretch but I just wanted to put it out there and see what people think. I sure am glad these forums have anti-flaming rules, because this post could get me flamed hardcore.
Edit: Ugin seemed to think they were older than time, but even he admitted that his knowledge of the Eldrazi was limited.
No the timeline doesn't add up. Bolas has taken control of Amonkhet seemly after the mending around 90 years, and the eldrazi where sealed away around 6000 years ago. Timeline-wise the eldrazi titans where still locked in the eye of Ugin when Bolas took over the plane.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
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There were power level problems in this story. It took Ashiok lots of preparation to manipulate a pantheon and the fabric of divinity.
Nissa did it instinctively and relatively at little cost.
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Wizards. listen. The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
But the leyline thing...it's like they're setting up "leylines" to be the fundamental way in which mana interacts with planes. Which I guess could be okay, but it seems like a pretty major change to the way mana has been presented throughout the history of the setting. I wonder what Nissa would make of how mana works on Dominaria, or on an artificial plane like New Phyrexia? I wish instead of this leyline business they'd get back to talking about the colors of mana a little more.
I agree with this point, and would add that this 'Kefnet is leylines' thing is conceptually frustrating. When I first heard of leylines, they stretched in patterns over our Earth. Massive 'energy' lines. So when they brought up leylines on Zendikar, okay, I dig. I can visualize it. The plane is full of mana and energy. Using it as a net? Okay, I get it. We're still talking lines across a plane connected by important points, whatever those points might be.
Same, more or less, on Innistrad and Kaladesh.
Now...I'm to be made to believe that these plane/planet-wide grids of mana/energy...are now diminutive, such as to be contained within a creature...and thus creating that creature? Conceptually, it doesn't make sense in my brain and doesn't sit well. It seemed like a crewtion of the author/Wizards to allow Nissa to influence a god (on the same, though not as powerful, level as Nicol Bolas).
It just doesn't feel right. I liked other parts of that story, but this leyline stuff is getting to me.
Is it a significant change? From what I understand and can gain from old books magic has always worked this way with the occasional oddity. Power(magic) naturally flows across a plane in rivers(leylines) and where these converge are places of great power. Where normal mages tap into this power and draw it to them; Nissa and Nahiri have been showing the ability to manipulate these natural rivers to divert large quantities of power from the normal course.
So rivers of power that flow through the world are somehow less for being intrinsically linked to a GOD? It would be weirder for such fundamental beings not to be linked to leylines. They are walking convergence points, the embodiment of ideals on this plane, if they were artificial I could understand them not being this way but it makes perfect sense for this kind of entity to being 'made' of leylines.
There were power level problems in this story. It took Ashiok lots of preparation to manipulate a pantheon and the fabric of divinity.
Nissa did it instinctively and relatively at little cost.
I'm having a problem with this as well. Leylines are quickly becoming "plot device we don't need to explain but act as a Nissa solution to everything" and it's really not helping her character.
There were power level problems in this story. It took Ashiok lots of preparation to manipulate a pantheon and the fabric of divinity.
Nissa did it instinctively and relatively at little cost.
Wasn't most of Ashiok's preparation so that the gods wouldn't find and destroy them while they 'played' on their plane? I don't remember any actual mention of Ashiok working to make their false gods other than the actual creation that was quickly squelched by Ephara. I can understand powerlevel concerns but there is very little to reference it against, with the only real point being what Bolas did and we are flat out told it wasn't anywhere close to what Bolas did.
Also I missed a thing. What are the ores mummies mine?
You have a lot of good questions, unfortunately I only have one good answer. They are mining Lazotep, as mentioned on Stone Quarry; it is apprently sacred, Sacred Excavation.
I can dig the idea of an Amonkhet god basically being a construction of the plane's mana essence given personality and form. In many (maybe all?) planes, angels and demons are similar manifestations of White and Black mana. And Amonkhet gods are sufficiently different from Theros gods that I'm not bothered by the differences in power level or essence or whatever.
It just seems to me that the term "leyline" is taking on a new significance, one that puts it at the heart of how magic works in Magic. And that seems to be an innovation. Sure, mana has always been produced by lands, and planeswalkers and other mages draw that power from lands and use it to create magical effects. But it seems to me that Creative only started to talk about things in terms of "leylines" starting with Zendikar and Nissa's relationship to that plane. Maybe I'm wrong about this, and the term goes back further.
I'd be happier if they talked about it more in terms of mana in general. Mana seems more fundamental to the game than "leylines" do. I mean, to go by the structure of Magic as a game, there are only nine Leyline cards (and one creature with Leyline in the name), whereas mana affects every card in the whole game.
But the leyline thing...it's like they're setting up "leylines" to be the fundamental way in which mana interacts with planes. Which I guess could be okay, but it seems like a pretty major change to the way mana has been presented throughout the history of the setting. I wonder what Nissa would make of how mana works on Dominaria, or on an artificial plane like New Phyrexia? I wish instead of this leyline business they'd get back to talking about the colors of mana a little more.
I agree with this point, and would add that this 'Kefnet is leylines' thing is conceptually frustrating. When I first heard of leylines, they stretched in patterns over our Earth. Massive 'energy' lines. So when they brought up leylines on Zendikar, okay, I dig. I can visualize it. The plane is full of mana and energy. Using it as a net? Okay, I get it. We're still talking lines across a plane connected by important points, whatever those points might be.
Same, more or less, on Innistrad and Kaladesh.
Now...I'm to be made to believe that these plane/planet-wide grids of mana/energy...are now diminutive, such as to be contained within a creature...and thus creating that creature? Conceptually, it doesn't make sense in my brain and doesn't sit well. It seemed like a crewtion of the author/Wizards to allow Nissa to influence a god (on the same, though not as powerful, level as Nicol Bolas).
It just doesn't feel right. I liked other parts of that story, but this leyline stuff is getting to me.
Is it a significant change? From what I understand and can gain from old books magic has always worked this way with the occasional oddity. Power(magic) naturally flows across a plane in rivers(leylines) and where these converge are places of great power. Where normal mages tap into this power and draw it to them; Nissa and Nahiri have been showing the ability to manipulate these natural rivers to divert large quantities of power from the normal course.
So rivers of power that flow through the world are somehow less for being intrinsically linked to a GOD? It would be weirder for such fundamental beings not to be linked to leylines. They are walking convergence points, the embodiment of ideals on this plane, if they were artificial I could understand them not being this way but it makes perfect sense for this kind of entity to being 'made' of leylines.
I can't speak for everyone else, but it bother me because 1) Nissa is starting to become a one-trick-pony in my mind, where Everything she does seemingly must involve leylines, and 2) Nissa overcoming a God, singlehandedly, by manipulating the leylines in his head or something, instinctively... overlooking the issue of leylines now being part of things other than the actual world (and boy, am I gonna be pissed when Nissa defeats Bolas by manipulating the leylines in him), could we at least have had her overcome Kefnet's Trial through actual cunning, as opposed to a stroke of luck?
We already had the vague and abstract explanation of Bolas overtaking Amonkhet the last time we saw Nissa. Did we really need a parody of The Promised End here to do it again? I was frankly hoping for a more straightforward conversation between Nissa and a god. Instead, we get Leylines as a Nissa plot device (as mentioned earlier here) and worse yet, we now have competition for the lowest points in MTG lore with her manipulating the very god of a plane within minutes of meeting them. In their own temple, on their own turf, within its own trial. Because leylines. This to me is right up there with Gideon whipping surral back and forth to push back Ulamog. If that was the lowest point in the lore, this to me was the second worst.
Why call it Magic Story at this point? It's just Magic Marketing. Planeswalkers come in, overpower leaders of plane, overpower even gods, overpower Lovecrafian horrors, then leave as heroes. Because Planeswalkers. Now they can do it in a matter of minutes. It's becoming clear to me the only threats Marketing wants for planes walkers are other planes walkers like Ob Nixlis. Everything else has an answer like surral or leylines.
I retract what I said about Bolas. He's getting defeated here. Because although he is a planeswalker, and thus basically the whole point of the lore, he is not a Gatewatch planeswalker, who are basically Oldwalkers without being Oldwalkers in Marketing: The Gathering. And with the powers of Plot, they will win. Tiers:
Gatewatch (real gods)
Other Planeswalkers (just gods)
The rest (who?)
I swear these planeswalkers wear entire worlds like clothing they change. It's never about the plane or its theme, its unique magic or its culture. Never about how it's unique, or a journey to learn from it and respect its awe-inspiring pantheons, or its head angel, or the very beings worshipped by is populace, which could very well include other latent planeswalkers. No. Planes are essentially just a new color or new style for the planeswalker drama to wear that day, with a new outfit tomorrow. The same characters, the same plot crutches, in a new outfit. This time it's an Egyptian outfit. But it's all about who is wearing it. Why should any of these characters belong to a plane at all when an entire plane is nothing but trivial riddles and quests for these characters, rather than being entire worlds and dimensions? Their very gods manipulated by the flick of the wrist when appearing? What happened to "just regular mages now" ?
I miss when we had characters like Toshi Umezawa. A themed character from the plane itself. One who had to work for their results. One who worked within the confines of magic but overcame obstacles by learning and with his cleverness. One who had to learn new techniques and approaches from others and how to wield new and very different magic when the situation called for it. Such as the Yuki-onna's ice magic, or Myojin magic from Night's Reach, beyond that of Kanji magic. Or learn about Oni magic from Kitedsugu as a means of understanding its potency and how it was wielded. All these unique magics in one plane explored by the character.
Here, we have planeswalkers come in and their intuition has one rewiring a freaking god instantaneously. After being on the plane for DAYS. Glad the general populace worth of mages hasn't thought of that yet over the centuries of Amonkhet's existence! If only they knew it was so easy! They're mages too after all! Oh but not planeswalker mages.
Give it up WOTC. The spark doesn't just "allow the character to traverse the planes." It seems to allow for basically everything Marketing wants.
Yeah. Kamigawa had all this diverse magic to explore, wielded by many diverse mages, on one world. We can't even have that kind of depth to magic over the course of multiple planes these days because Planeswalkers aren't bothering to learn anything. They arrive knowing the solutions, because planeswalkers. There are no threats to them, nothing for them to learn or grow with in a new and unique world. Nothing to respect or take pause for.
Just over it dude.
Tamiyo is the closest we've had to what a planeswalker should be. She arrived on Innistrad to learn. About its moon, its magic, its metaphysics. She genuinely heeded Avacyn and her powers. She worked with Jenrik, who was also learning. Their work took time and effort. Then the Gatewatch formed and Marketing killed off Jenrik to put Jace as the lead investigator and have him work with Tamiyo instead, because planeswalker.
While I won't contend on the point about threats, because I don't expect them to hurt their 'face' any time soon. But I have to contend on the nothing to learn and grow. This story was literally about Nissa growing so as to not just be about instinct but to actually understand, and Gideon has been showing lots of promise. I can understand a lot of the hate and dislike that is expressed here but it is almost always overblown. This nothing to respect or take pause for, you have seen numerous world's with numerous wonders, they can't keep aweing you each time. None of the watch are scholars so I don't expect them to react like a scholar, and I have never been shocked or disappointed in their characterizations because they have been more or less consistent. I have interacted with or heard about people that act exactly like each member, I've never met a person over 200 years old but I imagine they don't change significantly from someone in their 80s, who (according to sources) hadn't changed much from their 30s(maybe thousands of years finally change a person). I'm occasionally annoyed they don't act a certain way but I realize the way I would like them to act is usually counter to their built up persona or reasonable due to a lack of knowledge I have as the viewer but they don't, on either side(it's part of a plan the viewer isn't privy to, or the character didn't hear a monologue or just shared info with other characters).
I'll try to think this over a bunch, but what if the place is not a plwaneswalker farm but a look for one specific sort of walker?
It also seems like the random nature of a planeswalker's first 'walk, when his spark first flares, precludes any sort of control.
A friend of mine reckons that they come back to Amonkhet (the new walkers) out of loyalty for Bolas. How do we even know they do so? And on top of that, if a planeswalker first travels, his flare takes him out of harm's way. But what about the second time? We've no such info. So what if a planeswalker bites the big one before he even comes back? And what if he doesn't even WANT to come back?
Also, Bolas destroying the Hekma doesn't seem like him in the sense that Bolas doesn't seem the kind of guy to take his ball and go home. Or, perhaps a better analogy, knocking over the building blocks and then going home. He's evil and a mastermind, but if he truly destroys the entire plane in a display of "If I can't have it..!" then I won't get the tattoo of his symbol because then he'll truly have become Dr Claw from Inspector Gadget.
The guy tried to destroy Alara because he felt like it. I kind of doubt the Hekma is integral to his plan past this point, so his destroying it seems fitting for now. The very, very best I can see Bolas doing with destroying the Hekma and having a purpose for it beyond some sort of plot-related reason is that he destroys it to distract the Gatewatch while he does whatever he's doing. But it's Bolas, he will blow up planes for no reason except because he feels like it.
And I have mixed feelings on Amonkhet. We know that this needs to be a loss for the Gatewatch. But at the same time Egypt seems like a really popular trope with lots of potential space. And they usually build planes now with a built in return in case it gets popular enough to justify it. Seems hard to imagine they'd stop doing that with just Amonkhet.
That's not true. If I recall correctly, he tried to blow it up to test his powers. Hardly "because he felt like it".
I feel like I have a very different stance on what qualifies as just being a "feels like it" kind of thing. I think if someone tried to straight up kill someone to see if they were stronger that would still qualify as a "because they felt like it" kind of thing. There might be reasoning that isn't literally only impulse, but it's still ridiculously impulsive.
As far as this story goes, it only makes me like Nissa more. Probably because as far as Green/Blue goes this is the closes to how it fits for me, but I really like this Nissa. I don't really get the issue with Nissa doing a tweak with leylines either. How leylines work it makes sense that Gods are leylines, and Nissa can manipulate them, that's her entire thing. She should actually in some ways be better at it than Bolas in the long run, because she has the Green aspect to better understand them, not just manipulate them like Bolas, she's just new at it. But really this is hardly anything new, it's not like we didn't see this with Thassa either. Poor Blue Gods. Wonder if this happened to the Myojin of Seeing Winds.
Why 8 gods? 8 was never a number of balance in Magic universe, I suppose. Yes they had to be 5 after the god slaughter but why from 8? Isn't it a strange number? Or has it already been answered?
Nissa-Emrakul. Could this be a parallelism? Afterall in what aspect is Nissa different from an Eldrazi, she can feed on leylines, manipulate them, we know for certain she fears herself, her powers, maybe Em is what she can become. We don't have certain informations about Eldrazi's birth.
Also I really fear this self confidence she has matured after the trial of knowledge.
Emrakul from what I've read has been quite a "child god", one who's unaware of her true potential but her presence alone was enough to alter reality nearby. The chest symbolism was presented in Jace's mind trip and unless he's told others about it (which I doubt, since Chandra wasn't aware of Gideon's past though it was in Jace's dream), Nissa didn't know it ahead of time to have it also in her dream, with the angel asking her about being a pawn or a queen. Emrakul herself destroyed the pieces to imply to Jace that she is above the rules, something Nissa is learning.
Now that I'm on a computer and not my phone, I can write some more.
The leyline issue is going back and forth between two sides, and from the start, based on this story, I lean 'wha?' on not only Kefnet being 'made of leylines', but his Trial being made of leylines, and Nissa rewiring Kefnet so that he leaves her alone.
Usually, I'm decent at coming up with comparisons, but this time I've come up with a weird one: asphalt, or cement (hereinafter called 'asphalt' only, for simplicity).
---
You live in a world where asphalt can be used for many purposes. Before it is shaped and formed by you, your tools, your coworkers, or anything else, it sits in its unmolded form. It has potential for anything you desire. All it needs is for you to take it, make it yours, and do with it what you please.
Planeswalkers live in worlds where magic can be used for many purposes. Before it is shaped and formed by them, their tools, their friends, or anything else, it sits in its unmolded form. It has potential for anything they desire. All it needs is for them to take it, make it theirs, and do with it what they please.
---
I think we can all understand the comparisons above. Magic, like asphalt or cement, is only potential until it is used and directed for a purpose. That's where the colors of magic come in, where mana comes in, where the mage or planeswalker comes in. To explain why today's story was like a whiff of chemicals in class when you're only supposed to waft, consider this:
Kefnet is made of leylines.
Kefnet is made of highways.
What?
On it's face it doesn't make sense. Leylines are a product of concentrations of magic, as highways are a product of concentrations of asphalt, heading in definite directions from point to point. That's what leylines are. I challenge you, reader, in an entirely friendly way, to find a definition of 'leyline' that does not involve a line of some sort. That's what leylines are. They're not clouds. They're not ponds. They're lines.
So when the author writes that Kefnet is made of leylines, that's like saying Kefnet is made of highways. It just doesn't make sense. And for that to form the basis of Nissa's actions with Kefnet compounded the absurdity. I would not have as much issue with Nissa influencing Kefnet if she sensed the contamination within Kefnet's magic left by Bolas and warded it off from a piece of the uncorrupted parts of the god or something (heck, that would even play well into New Phyrexia encounters) using just ethereal magic generally. But to say "The Trial is made of highways!" and "Kefnet is made of highways!" makes no sense!
I try not to hate on specific planeswalkers, because their writers control their fates, and any of Nissa's perceived faults are not her own because she was made that way by some person. (I will freely hate on the Gatewatch concept, though) But at some point, we have to all come together and agree that some things, no matter how much we like or dislike a planeswalker, just make no sense and are absurd. I think we were unified with Gideon facing down Ulamog in that ridiculous scene. This should be another moment of unity.
This story was a weird entry to be sure. I think it's hard to form any full opinion off of it simply due to the vast amounts and depth of foreshadowing, metaphoric descriptions and symbolic imagery used. This is, as many have pointed out, sort of like the Promised End in more ways than one. The connections are obvious, but this story is ultimately a teaser piece. The payoff comes down the road when we learn what some of the images were and see the connections, or don't and then have our concerns made concrete by the story. It's just a hard piece to evaluate for anything other than the style and Nissa exposition.
Look, I get the anger at Nissa and PW deus ex machinas for the plot. Bugs me too. Having said that, I'm trying to enjoy what I can in these stories. Drana on Zendikar. Olivia and mostly Arlinn on Innistrad. Yahenni on Kaladesh. I enjoy the world-bound characters the most, and for the most part they still exist. Although they've been mostly absent so far in Amonkhet.
At a minimum Nissa's inward-thoughts are interesting in this. You see a growing hubris among her thoughts, and the Emrakul visions - whether just a mental figment or actual communication with the titan - are quite interesting. Even with the obvious leylines plot device becoming as tired as Ashaya, I still want to read those aspects of Nissa more. I think we can agree that having at least thst shows growth from the travesty of BFZ's story. There's plenty of improvements for the story to make, but let's not simply dismiss everything as awful storytelling. Although I will admit I'm starting to miss those planar-bound characters more and more with each passing week. I mean, could we get 1 story without the GW, please? A Bolas piece or a Samut or Djeru story-persepctive would be greatly welcomed.
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Vorthos-player with way too much time on his hands and a love of thematic decks.
EDH - Yes, Each One is Named After a Song. I love tying music to my decks.
OK, I guess I'll weigh in on the whole "what the heck with the leylines and Nissa?" thing.
I liked this story, and I was not thrown or confused by it at all. My reaction was "oh, so thats how you are going to explain magic at a fundamental level in your multiverse? Well good, its about damned time you explained your system to me." I didn't see it as a convenient plot trick to make Nissa relevant, and I was confused by the reaction, but I think I get it now. I've read A TON of fantasy/sci-fi books over the years, many worlds and authors, and I'm used to this.
I would say there are 3 levels of magic systems in a fantastical world or universe (or in the case here, a multiverse). For most of magic we were stuck at a lower level of magic system, and creative finally got around to the highest, 3rd level. The lowest level is Disney, basically no magic system at all. "I don't know how it works, I just stare at my target, think about what I want, and poof, magic!" The second level is Harry Potter, they have a magic system but its dirt-dumb and still doesn't explain what magic is. Incantations, motions, maybe a wand, and poof, magic! (no explanation for why a random guy on the street can't say the same magic words he heard you say to get his own fireball, I guess you are just special)
A lot of authors like to break out the magic science books, take the reader to class, and teach them their system, usually during the main character's origin story where he's learning how to do magic. This is because then you can use that in your story and explain how the hero could see that the spell someone cast was "wrong" and corrected it, or whatever. Maybe its all potions so we have magical chemistry, or your body has some way to generate a new kind of power or energy that you can shape into a spell and maybe you have to recharge. Many choose to use something like what Magic seems to be going for, that magic force just exists everywhere (here, the word for that force is apparently leyline which I imagine to be a river, stream, or trickle of magic energy, which comes in 5 flavors), sometimes concentrated in specific locations like in wotc's world, but only sorcerers can see it and use it. Or in this case, not even all mages can see it, only a few like Nissa while the rest don't seem to understand how they can do the magic thing. I imagine if you asked Chandra how she does fire, she'd smile and say "well, I concentrate on where the fire should go, I reach out with this sixth sense thing thats hard to describe a certain way, and woosh, fire! Cool, huh!" Nissa might watch Chandra reach out to a red leyline, draw in some of the energy and convert it to fire. (probably also using some of it to make fire resistance so she doesn't burn herself)
As for the gods are leylines, well you have to ask what is a permanent spell, like an aura? A temporary spell could just be grabbing some energy from a leyline, turn it into fire, and woosh, but a permanent spell needs more of an explanation than that. Probably fed by a running source of magic (or leyline), and could even be perhaps made up of leylines that are twisted and weaved in a specific pattern that matters for some reason, and connected to the world so that it is permanent. The Gods being walking leylines doesn't throw me, and I imagine if Nissa went to Theros she'd see leylines everywhere as she approaches a God.
The reason why midi-chlorians in Star Wars was kinda dumb is that it was unnecessary for them to explain their system more than they already had. If they were going to make use of that fact and then explain how someone interfered with the force somehow at a fundamental level or interacted with midi-chlorians then fine, but no, it was just "you can use the force because you have lots of these". OK, why bother telling us that? It felt like the writers were trying to be needlessly clever in front of the fans. You don't need to explain the magic system to have a good story, but if you do choose to break it down for us, then it needs to be relevant somehow in your story, and once Magic decided Nissa could see the sources of magic and manipulate them, well then it is now time to teach us the system.
As for the nightmare trap, I didn't think Nissa is actually being controlled or guided by Emrakul from beyond the plane at first, but now I'm not sure and I'll just wait and see. I had believed that it was all just memories, the nightmare trap was taking horrible things from Nissa's past and crafting them in a way to distract and torment her. The thing that bothers me about that "it was nothing, just a spell and memories" theory is the whole "are you a pawn or a queen" thing.
Sometimes we'll have mental matrix-y situations where you are dreaming or hallucinating and you think you are arguing or confronting someone else, but no its your own brain trying to slap some sense into you and realize the truth that your subconscious mind has already figured out. However, the thing Nissa was confronting seemed to be very un-Nissa and external. Demanding she stop dreaming about being a queen and be the hand that guides felt like something outside trying to guide Nissa to a new path, but who knows, it could just be Nissa's own frustrations with struggle and failure finally manifesting and telling herself to step up. *shrug*
I hope some aren't being distracted by the leyline thing and missing out on trying to figure out the clues foreshadowing and history the visions were producing.
I'm far more interested in that.
The Emrakul stuff...?
Did the say something about someone with an erased face? Ashiok?
Bolas set this up for power draining? Still seeking the power that was taken from him at the mending Some serious powerful magic being used here for control. Thousands of worlds Nissa saw tainted with his corruption like a path of destruction? We all new he's been around and assumed he has done things in many places but when you start to visualize it it's crazy. All these planes of who knows what or who just laid waste by Bolas.
Some interesting stuff in this story.
I do see Bolas coming back and doing his destroying/absorbing BUT the Gatewatch restoring the gods, defeating Razaketh, losing something/someone but setting the plane up as "free" of Bolas
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This story was 5/8, which means two of the five story moment happen in the same story, since in the story spot light card we've seen 1/5.
http://magic.wizards.com/en/products/amonkhet/story
No the timeline doesn't add up. Bolas has taken control of Amonkhet seemly after the mending around 90 years, and the eldrazi where sealed away around 6000 years ago. Timeline-wise the eldrazi titans where still locked in the eye of Ugin when Bolas took over the plane.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Nissa did it instinctively and relatively at little cost.
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
So rivers of power that flow through the world are somehow less for being intrinsically linked to a GOD? It would be weirder for such fundamental beings not to be linked to leylines. They are walking convergence points, the embodiment of ideals on this plane, if they were artificial I could understand them not being this way but it makes perfect sense for this kind of entity to being 'made' of leylines.
I'm having a problem with this as well. Leylines are quickly becoming "plot device we don't need to explain but act as a Nissa solution to everything" and it's really not helping her character.
Nissa-san, help me get Bolas-senpai to notice me. *blushes interdimensionally*
It just seems to me that the term "leyline" is taking on a new significance, one that puts it at the heart of how magic works in Magic. And that seems to be an innovation. Sure, mana has always been produced by lands, and planeswalkers and other mages draw that power from lands and use it to create magical effects. But it seems to me that Creative only started to talk about things in terms of "leylines" starting with Zendikar and Nissa's relationship to that plane. Maybe I'm wrong about this, and the term goes back further.
I'd be happier if they talked about it more in terms of mana in general. Mana seems more fundamental to the game than "leylines" do. I mean, to go by the structure of Magic as a game, there are only nine Leyline cards (and one creature with Leyline in the name), whereas mana affects every card in the whole game.
I can't speak for everyone else, but it bother me because 1) Nissa is starting to become a one-trick-pony in my mind, where Everything she does seemingly must involve leylines, and 2) Nissa overcoming a God, singlehandedly, by manipulating the leylines in his head or something, instinctively... overlooking the issue of leylines now being part of things other than the actual world (and boy, am I gonna be pissed when Nissa defeats Bolas by manipulating the leylines in him), could we at least have had her overcome Kefnet's Trial through actual cunning, as opposed to a stroke of luck?
Why call it Magic Story at this point? It's just Magic Marketing. Planeswalkers come in, overpower leaders of plane, overpower even gods, overpower Lovecrafian horrors, then leave as heroes. Because Planeswalkers. Now they can do it in a matter of minutes. It's becoming clear to me the only threats Marketing wants for planes walkers are other planes walkers like Ob Nixlis. Everything else has an answer like surral or leylines.
I retract what I said about Bolas. He's getting defeated here. Because although he is a planeswalker, and thus basically the whole point of the lore, he is not a Gatewatch planeswalker, who are basically Oldwalkers without being Oldwalkers in Marketing: The Gathering. And with the powers of Plot, they will win. Tiers:
Gatewatch (real gods)
Other Planeswalkers (just gods)
The rest (who?)
I swear these planeswalkers wear entire worlds like clothing they change. It's never about the plane or its theme, its unique magic or its culture. Never about how it's unique, or a journey to learn from it and respect its awe-inspiring pantheons, or its head angel, or the very beings worshipped by is populace, which could very well include other latent planeswalkers. No. Planes are essentially just a new color or new style for the planeswalker drama to wear that day, with a new outfit tomorrow. The same characters, the same plot crutches, in a new outfit. This time it's an Egyptian outfit. But it's all about who is wearing it. Why should any of these characters belong to a plane at all when an entire plane is nothing but trivial riddles and quests for these characters, rather than being entire worlds and dimensions? Their very gods manipulated by the flick of the wrist when appearing? What happened to "just regular mages now" ?
I miss when we had characters like Toshi Umezawa. A themed character from the plane itself. One who had to work for their results. One who worked within the confines of magic but overcame obstacles by learning and with his cleverness. One who had to learn new techniques and approaches from others and how to wield new and very different magic when the situation called for it. Such as the Yuki-onna's ice magic, or Myojin magic from Night's Reach, beyond that of Kanji magic. Or learn about Oni magic from Kitedsugu as a means of understanding its potency and how it was wielded. All these unique magics in one plane explored by the character.
Here, we have planeswalkers come in and their intuition has one rewiring a freaking god instantaneously. After being on the plane for DAYS. Glad the general populace worth of mages hasn't thought of that yet over the centuries of Amonkhet's existence! If only they knew it was so easy! They're mages too after all! Oh but not planeswalker mages.
Give it up WOTC. The spark doesn't just "allow the character to traverse the planes." It seems to allow for basically everything Marketing wants.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Just over it dude.
Tamiyo is the closest we've had to what a planeswalker should be. She arrived on Innistrad to learn. About its moon, its magic, its metaphysics. She genuinely heeded Avacyn and her powers. She worked with Jenrik, who was also learning. Their work took time and effort. Then the Gatewatch formed and Marketing killed off Jenrik to put Jace as the lead investigator and have him work with Tamiyo instead, because planeswalker.
And this coming from a Jace fan.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
And her work was, self-admittedly, shoddy in comparison and in proportion.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I feel like I have a very different stance on what qualifies as just being a "feels like it" kind of thing. I think if someone tried to straight up kill someone to see if they were stronger that would still qualify as a "because they felt like it" kind of thing. There might be reasoning that isn't literally only impulse, but it's still ridiculously impulsive.
As far as this story goes, it only makes me like Nissa more. Probably because as far as Green/Blue goes this is the closes to how it fits for me, but I really like this Nissa. I don't really get the issue with Nissa doing a tweak with leylines either. How leylines work it makes sense that Gods are leylines, and Nissa can manipulate them, that's her entire thing. She should actually in some ways be better at it than Bolas in the long run, because she has the Green aspect to better understand them, not just manipulate them like Bolas, she's just new at it. But really this is hardly anything new, it's not like we didn't see this with Thassa either. Poor Blue Gods. Wonder if this happened to the Myojin of Seeing Winds.
Gold, artifact, colorless?
Emrakul from what I've read has been quite a "child god", one who's unaware of her true potential but her presence alone was enough to alter reality nearby. The chest symbolism was presented in Jace's mind trip and unless he's told others about it (which I doubt, since Chandra wasn't aware of Gideon's past though it was in Jace's dream), Nissa didn't know it ahead of time to have it also in her dream, with the angel asking her about being a pawn or a queen. Emrakul herself destroyed the pieces to imply to Jace that she is above the rules, something Nissa is learning.
STOP.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
The leyline issue is going back and forth between two sides, and from the start, based on this story, I lean 'wha?' on not only Kefnet being 'made of leylines', but his Trial being made of leylines, and Nissa rewiring Kefnet so that he leaves her alone.
Usually, I'm decent at coming up with comparisons, but this time I've come up with a weird one: asphalt, or cement (hereinafter called 'asphalt' only, for simplicity).
---
You live in a world where asphalt can be used for many purposes. Before it is shaped and formed by you, your tools, your coworkers, or anything else, it sits in its unmolded form. It has potential for anything you desire. All it needs is for you to take it, make it yours, and do with it what you please.
Planeswalkers live in worlds where magic can be used for many purposes. Before it is shaped and formed by them, their tools, their friends, or anything else, it sits in its unmolded form. It has potential for anything they desire. All it needs is for them to take it, make it theirs, and do with it what they please.
---
I think we can all understand the comparisons above. Magic, like asphalt or cement, is only potential until it is used and directed for a purpose. That's where the colors of magic come in, where mana comes in, where the mage or planeswalker comes in. To explain why today's story was like a whiff of chemicals in class when you're only supposed to waft, consider this:
Kefnet is made of leylines.
Kefnet is made of highways.
What?
On it's face it doesn't make sense. Leylines are a product of concentrations of magic, as highways are a product of concentrations of asphalt, heading in definite directions from point to point. That's what leylines are. I challenge you, reader, in an entirely friendly way, to find a definition of 'leyline' that does not involve a line of some sort. That's what leylines are. They're not clouds. They're not ponds. They're lines.
So when the author writes that Kefnet is made of leylines, that's like saying Kefnet is made of highways. It just doesn't make sense. And for that to form the basis of Nissa's actions with Kefnet compounded the absurdity. I would not have as much issue with Nissa influencing Kefnet if she sensed the contamination within Kefnet's magic left by Bolas and warded it off from a piece of the uncorrupted parts of the god or something (heck, that would even play well into New Phyrexia encounters) using just ethereal magic generally. But to say "The Trial is made of highways!" and "Kefnet is made of highways!" makes no sense!
I try not to hate on specific planeswalkers, because their writers control their fates, and any of Nissa's perceived faults are not her own because she was made that way by some person. (I will freely hate on the Gatewatch concept, though) But at some point, we have to all come together and agree that some things, no matter how much we like or dislike a planeswalker, just make no sense and are absurd. I think we were unified with Gideon facing down Ulamog in that ridiculous scene. This should be another moment of unity.
Look, I get the anger at Nissa and PW deus ex machinas for the plot. Bugs me too. Having said that, I'm trying to enjoy what I can in these stories. Drana on Zendikar. Olivia and mostly Arlinn on Innistrad. Yahenni on Kaladesh. I enjoy the world-bound characters the most, and for the most part they still exist. Although they've been mostly absent so far in Amonkhet.
At a minimum Nissa's inward-thoughts are interesting in this. You see a growing hubris among her thoughts, and the Emrakul visions - whether just a mental figment or actual communication with the titan - are quite interesting. Even with the obvious leylines plot device becoming as tired as Ashaya, I still want to read those aspects of Nissa more. I think we can agree that having at least thst shows growth from the travesty of BFZ's story. There's plenty of improvements for the story to make, but let's not simply dismiss everything as awful storytelling. Although I will admit I'm starting to miss those planar-bound characters more and more with each passing week. I mean, could we get 1 story without the GW, please? A Bolas piece or a Samut or Djeru story-persepctive would be greatly welcomed.
EDH - Yes, Each One is Named After a Song. I love tying music to my decks.
B Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief B - Fear of the Dark
WG Sigarda, Heron's Grace WG - Strength in Numbers
RG Xenagos, God of Revels RG - Fullmoon (It's werewolves)
RW Archangel Avacyn // Avacyn, the Purifier RW - The End is Nigh
60 Card Kitchen Table Decks
WUB Avacyn, Spirit Ferrier
RG Arlinn Kord's Howlpack
I liked this story, and I was not thrown or confused by it at all. My reaction was "oh, so thats how you are going to explain magic at a fundamental level in your multiverse? Well good, its about damned time you explained your system to me." I didn't see it as a convenient plot trick to make Nissa relevant, and I was confused by the reaction, but I think I get it now. I've read A TON of fantasy/sci-fi books over the years, many worlds and authors, and I'm used to this.
I would say there are 3 levels of magic systems in a fantastical world or universe (or in the case here, a multiverse). For most of magic we were stuck at a lower level of magic system, and creative finally got around to the highest, 3rd level. The lowest level is Disney, basically no magic system at all. "I don't know how it works, I just stare at my target, think about what I want, and poof, magic!" The second level is Harry Potter, they have a magic system but its dirt-dumb and still doesn't explain what magic is. Incantations, motions, maybe a wand, and poof, magic! (no explanation for why a random guy on the street can't say the same magic words he heard you say to get his own fireball, I guess you are just special)
A lot of authors like to break out the magic science books, take the reader to class, and teach them their system, usually during the main character's origin story where he's learning how to do magic. This is because then you can use that in your story and explain how the hero could see that the spell someone cast was "wrong" and corrected it, or whatever. Maybe its all potions so we have magical chemistry, or your body has some way to generate a new kind of power or energy that you can shape into a spell and maybe you have to recharge. Many choose to use something like what Magic seems to be going for, that magic force just exists everywhere (here, the word for that force is apparently leyline which I imagine to be a river, stream, or trickle of magic energy, which comes in 5 flavors), sometimes concentrated in specific locations like in wotc's world, but only sorcerers can see it and use it. Or in this case, not even all mages can see it, only a few like Nissa while the rest don't seem to understand how they can do the magic thing. I imagine if you asked Chandra how she does fire, she'd smile and say "well, I concentrate on where the fire should go, I reach out with this sixth sense thing thats hard to describe a certain way, and woosh, fire! Cool, huh!" Nissa might watch Chandra reach out to a red leyline, draw in some of the energy and convert it to fire. (probably also using some of it to make fire resistance so she doesn't burn herself)
As for the gods are leylines, well you have to ask what is a permanent spell, like an aura? A temporary spell could just be grabbing some energy from a leyline, turn it into fire, and woosh, but a permanent spell needs more of an explanation than that. Probably fed by a running source of magic (or leyline), and could even be perhaps made up of leylines that are twisted and weaved in a specific pattern that matters for some reason, and connected to the world so that it is permanent. The Gods being walking leylines doesn't throw me, and I imagine if Nissa went to Theros she'd see leylines everywhere as she approaches a God.
The reason why midi-chlorians in Star Wars was kinda dumb is that it was unnecessary for them to explain their system more than they already had. If they were going to make use of that fact and then explain how someone interfered with the force somehow at a fundamental level or interacted with midi-chlorians then fine, but no, it was just "you can use the force because you have lots of these". OK, why bother telling us that? It felt like the writers were trying to be needlessly clever in front of the fans. You don't need to explain the magic system to have a good story, but if you do choose to break it down for us, then it needs to be relevant somehow in your story, and once Magic decided Nissa could see the sources of magic and manipulate them, well then it is now time to teach us the system.
Sometimes we'll have mental matrix-y situations where you are dreaming or hallucinating and you think you are arguing or confronting someone else, but no its your own brain trying to slap some sense into you and realize the truth that your subconscious mind has already figured out. However, the thing Nissa was confronting seemed to be very un-Nissa and external. Demanding she stop dreaming about being a queen and be the hand that guides felt like something outside trying to guide Nissa to a new path, but who knows, it could just be Nissa's own frustrations with struggle and failure finally manifesting and telling herself to step up. *shrug*
I'm far more interested in that.
The Emrakul stuff...?
Did the say something about someone with an erased face? Ashiok?
Bolas set this up for power draining? Still seeking the power that was taken from him at the mending Some serious powerful magic being used here for control. Thousands of worlds Nissa saw tainted with his corruption like a path of destruction? We all new he's been around and assumed he has done things in many places but when you start to visualize it it's crazy. All these planes of who knows what or who just laid waste by Bolas.
Some interesting stuff in this story.
I do see Bolas coming back and doing his destroying/absorbing BUT the Gatewatch restoring the gods, defeating Razaketh, losing something/someone but setting the plane up as "free" of Bolas