How Lilliana's demon plays into all this has be stroking my chin. Hmm.
We need a big POV for her in the story to really know. She claims that she never saw the city-state so if this is true who knows where on the plane she went to make her deal.
After seeing people gripe about something so small I'm glad that they confirmed the intent for Nissa and Chandra hasn't changed.
Also I'd find it really weird if only some Planes had a soul. It makes much more sense to me if they all did. This doesn't mean the Soul has to be always friendly. I'd argue Ravnica doesn't agree with Nissa at all and we know it has one, so having a soul isn't the same as being friendly at all.
To add onto this, Nissa has shown to have issues with a few of them, Lorwyn/Shadowmoor and Innistrad scared her (and who know if she could even talk to Innistrad, thought this might have been Emrakul), from her POV storylines she didn't seem to talk to Kaldesh, rather she was tracking things using the aether patterns.
Amonkhet could just be more vocal since it is dying and maybe it thinks Nissa can help save the it and/or help it die.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
To be fair it's too soon to pair Gatewatch members. This needs to be a long-running story arc with them and I'd sooner see them be on a journey before realizing their mutual affection.
I personally hope the Gatewatch loses and Amonkhet is doomed. Not because I disagree with how the Gatewatch is handled. But in order for their to be an overarching villain, in this case Nicol Bolas, there need to be villians who are simply just too strong for them. Which is why I hope Amonkhet becomes a lesson in humility, patience and of loss for the Gatewatch.
I personally hope the Gatewatch loses and Amonkhet is doomed. Not because I disagree with how the Gatewatch is handled. But in order for their to be an overarching villain, in this case Nicol Bolas, there need to be villians who are simply just too strong for them. Which is why I hope Amonkhet becomes a lesson in humility, patience and of loss for the Gatewatch.
I think they will likely leave some sort of out for Amonkhet to be revisited, as it makes no sense for them to predetermine that they could never revisit it. That said, there's a number of ways the Gatewatch could 'lose' while still preserving some portion of the plane for a revisit.
I always got the sense that it wasn't really that Nissa was "talking" to the planes but that she was just sensing them out and it was displayed as talking. All the words were just sensations she got from feeling the plane out and her mind, or the story for our benefit, interprets it into words. I mean she also just describes how touching the essence of the plane feels.
I personally hope the Gatewatch loses and Amonkhet is doomed. Not because I disagree with how the Gatewatch is handled. But in order for their to be an overarching villain, in this case Nicol Bolas, there need to be villians who are simply just too strong for them. Which is why I hope Amonkhet becomes a lesson in humility, patience and of loss for the Gatewatch.
I think they will likely leave some sort of out for Amonkhet to be revisited, as it makes no sense for them to predetermine that they could never revisit it. That said, there's a number of ways the Gatewatch could 'lose' while still preserving some portion of the plane for a revisit.
Food for Thought: New Phyrexia, formerly Mirrodin, is still intact.
I feel like it would be better to not blow up a plane that has a lot of untapped potential. Of course knowing my luck they'd have Bolas destroy Kamigawa so I don't see a great route either way.
I always got the sense that it wasn't really that Nissa was "talking" to the planes but that she was just sensing them out and it was displayed as talking. All the words were just sensations she got from feeling the plane out and her mind, or the story for our benefit, interprets it into words. I mean she also just describes how touching the essence of the plane feels.
That may have been your "sense" and "interpretation" but why are you choosing to ignore the plain meaning of the words in the story? The story is saying some planes have an ability to intelligently communicate with Nissa. We're talking about an imaginary world within the Magic multiverse, so they are free to make up any reality they want. In their universe, some planes appear to be actually, really sentient and can only directly communicate with very few people, including Nissa. Its their story, I don't see a need to interpret it as really meaning something else.
I found that this block of stories to start off very rocky with the first one. The second they seemed to find their legs with the characters and the setting and now with this third story I am definitely far more invested. I do have a few thoughts though after reading the comments here and the story though...
1: Bolas didn't create Amonkhet: This was a huge surprise for me and seems honestly far more intriguing.
2: The Gods look like they had their minds wiped: This makes it seem as if the Gods weren't the creation of Bolas either and makes one wonder if they had previously attempted to stand against Bolas and failed (Since there are 5 now rather than 8.)
3: I don't think that there is any connection to the 8 gods being a reference to Bolas's CMC. I mean no offense when I say this but it's taking two completely unrelated things and trying to connect them. (Also there is no Bolas in this set as the PW formula and Maro confirmation is that it's 3 PW in this set and 2 in the next.)
4: The edit to the story: Some people were certainly very passionate about the change being made and speculate that this is censorship. To me this seemed as if they had just adjusted the dialogue for clarification as the subject matter still very much exists.
I don't subscribe to the idea that WotC is 'sitting on the fence.' about representation considering card characters such as the Kings of Meletis and Alesha who Smiles at Death for sexual orientation and gender and I doubt they'll stop there. Many complaints have already been voiced that there isn't a lot of depth to the Gatewatch and that the stories up til now have been lackluster. Rushing romances without character building before-hand in an effort to make token references for the sake of inclusivity seems like a bad idea.
Taking the time to make meaningful characters who are not two dimensional and have a reason to actually fill the roles that you want would be better. (Not just story-wise but for inclusivity as well.)
5: Nissa's color change: I sincerely hope that this isn't a temporary change. One could argue that her ability to communicate with the plane is a form of telepathy (mind magic) as it is. Her desire to better understand and seek guidance while accepting the world for what it is makes perfect sense. She's been a solitary figure almost her entire life and it makes sense that now after a while of being around others that she starts to change and adapt (represented by a second color.) I wouldn't mind seeing secondary colors for other planeswalkers provided that they can come up with the justification for it.
6: Jace feels useless here: While we've seen Jace show up on Innistrad and do some poking around, he feels as if he's the weakest link in the Gatewatch with very little to contribute in comparison to his comrades. Also with being the Living Guildpact I'd like to see what has happened on Ravnica since he must have been gone at least months between both the stories of Kaladesh block and now Amonkhet.
So they just edited out the very obvious romantically inclined question Chandra asked to Nissa with no comment.
That's honestly a pretty gross action and reeks of WOTC being afraid of people in the community like those crazy "cultural marxism"/"gay propaganda" conspiracy theorists. Choose your side WOTC. Either you fully accept people in the LGBTQ community and believe they deserve the spotlight just as much as everyone else or you don't. You can't just keep keep making token background LGBT characters for brownie points and act like that's progress. Actively censoring an author to take LGBT themes out is the opposite of progress and shows that you really do just want to keep sprinkling out token characters to keep heat off yourself in place of actually giving a care.
Good for WotC.
Chandra and Gideon have been hinted at as a potential thing since the Purifying Fire novel. This weird twist with her and Nissa came out of the blue during Kaladesh and now they are trying to make it a thing.
The company doesn't have to choose a side to cater to the vocal minority. Why should they? In the current world where everyone believes that they are entitneld to something and that they need to be represented everywhere, I fully support the companies that do their best to go against that flow. This isn't a anti gay statement, it can be said about literally any type of movement or people (fat, anorexic, black, white, rich, poor...you get the point)
Um...Chill?
I'm a gay dude yet I always shipped Chandra with Gideon,
but to be honest there has been a lot of hints suggesting that Chandra may have feelings for Nissa.
As a recently 'Out of Closet' LDS (Mormon)dude, Chandra's (and mine own) sexuality befuddles me yet I'm trying to realize that not every character, or theme in MTG has to align with my values, past, present or evolving.
There is nothing wrong with GideonXChandra, nor ChandraXNissa, or even just Chandra (difficult for her as that may be). If anything, I'm feeling Gideon's relationship with Chandra now reminds me more of that of a sibling, cousin or friend but that's my interpretation. Nissa also seems to uninterested in anything right now, which isn't really a sign of anything but that very statement.
There is nothing wrong with people morally disagreeing with what I do as a Gay, so long as they maintain respect for plurality.
There is nothing wrong with LGBTQ+ wanting and receiving greater recognition and protections, so long as they maintain respect for plurality.
The GayMormon in me says people are far too immoderate on these issues than needs be. Let's just read the story and trust that Wizards will continue making characters and stories for everyone. Even for weirdly conservative gays like myself.
Edit: let no one mistake, I'm a happy man and quite happy with my LuvLad.
Is it possible that the Hekma can trap other planeswalkers on the plane and they just don't know it yet? Maybe your "death" at the end of the trials is an attempt to see if you have a dormant planeswalker spark, igniting it but not allowing you to planeswalk, therefore trapping you on Amonkhet. When Bolas returns he has a little bowl of planeswalkers that he can delight from.
I do not mind the LGBT/trans subthemes in Magic. But what I mind are these cowardly edits. I wonder whether the articles go through some approval / proofreading before being published.
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100% Vorthos Spike and Storyline Expert
Former Fact Prospector of the Greek Alliance.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
I always got the sense that it wasn't really that Nissa was "talking" to the planes but that she was just sensing them out and it was displayed as talking. All the words were just sensations she got from feeling the plane out and her mind, or the story for our benefit, interprets it into words. I mean she also just describes how touching the essence of the plane feels.
If that's what her "talking" with the planes is supposed to be like, why don't they mention (or at least hint at) it anywhere? The way it's written, it really seems like Nissa is just talking to some person.
I do not mind the LGBT/trans subthemes in Magic. But what I mind are these cowardly edits.
It wasn't a cowardly edit, it was a edit that made the story/dialogue better. I think they articles go through proofreading, that's probably why the change was made in the first place. They just posted the older version by accident.
I do NOT think this is the case, but I find the idea hilarious and support it fully.
The writing of late has been getting better and better. Occasionally I trip over some of the dialogue that feels out of place, but the full sense of the characters is strong, and the story and setting are intriguing, this week especially.
Private Mod Note
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[FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2]Once tried to build a (non-online) deck for every commander in Magic. Didn't work, but left me with far more commander decks than listable. Support non-optimized trash fun commanders!
I always got the sense that it wasn't really that Nissa was "talking" to the planes but that she was just sensing them out and it was displayed as talking. All the words were just sensations she got from feeling the plane out and her mind, or the story for our benefit, interprets it into words. I mean she also just describes how touching the essence of the plane feels.
If that's what her "talking" with the planes is supposed to be like, why don't they mention (or at least hint at) it anywhere? The way it's written, it really seems like Nissa is just talking to some person.
I do not mind the LGBT/trans subthemes in Magic. But what I mind are these cowardly edits.
It wasn't a cowardly edit, it was a edit that made the story/dialogue better. I think they articles go through proofreading, that's probably why the change was made in the first place. They just posted the older version by accident.
Do you have any proof of what you say? If it was just an accident and innocent edit, it happened to include a really peculiar sentence and as a result, it sent mixed/potentially controversial signals.
So they just edited out the very obvious romantically inclined question Chandra asked to Nissa with no comment.
That's honestly a pretty gross action and reeks of WOTC being afraid of people in the community like those crazy "cultural marxism"/"gay propaganda" conspiracy theorists. Choose your side WOTC. Either you fully accept people in the LGBTQ community and believe they deserve the spotlight just as much as everyone else or you don't. You can't just keep keep making token background LGBT characters for brownie points and act like that's progress. Actively censoring an author to take LGBT themes out is the opposite of progress and shows that you really do just want to keep sprinkling out token characters to keep heat off yourself in place of actually giving a care.
Good for WotC.
Chandra and Gideon have been hinted at as a potential thing since the Purifying Fire novel. This weird twist with her and Nissa came out of the blue during Kaladesh and now they are trying to make it a thing.
The company doesn't have to choose a side to cater to the vocal minority. Why should they? In the current world where everyone believes that they are entitneld to something and that they need to be represented everywhere, I fully support the companies that do their best to go against that flow. This isn't a anti gay statement, it can be said about literally any type of movement or people (fat, anorexic, black, white, rich, poor...you get the point)
Um...Chill?
I'm a gay dude yet I always shipped Chandra with Gideon,
but to be honest there has been a lot of hints suggesting that Chandra may have feelings for Nissa.
As a recently 'Out of Closet' LDS (Mormon)dude, Chandra's (and mine own) sexuality befuddles me yet I'm trying to realize that not every character, or theme in MTG has to align with my values, past, present or evolving.
There is nothing wrong with GideonXChandra, nor ChandraXNissa, or even just Chandra (difficult for her as that may be). If anything, I'm feeling Gideon's relationship with Chandra now reminds me more of that of a sibling, cousin or friend but that's my interpretation. Nissa also seems to uninterested in anything right now, which isn't really a sign of anything but that very statement.
There is nothing wrong with people morally disagreeing with what I do as a Gay, so long as they maintain respect for plurality.
There is nothing wrong with LGBTQ+ wanting and receiving greater recognition and protections, so long as they maintain respect for plurality.
The GayMormon in me says people are far too immoderate on these issues than needs be. Let's just read the story and trust that Wizards will continue making characters and stories for everyone. Even for weirdly conservative gays like myself.
Edit: let no one mistake, I'm a happy man and quite happy with my LuvLad.
How could someone morally disagree with you and still respect what you do? I'm opposed to, for instance, murder specifically because I think it's immoral. The whole purpose of moral judgements is to decide what people shouldnt be allowed to do.
but to be honest there has been a lot of hints suggesting that Chandra may have feelings for Nissa.
Not really? There's been a lot of hints that Nissa has feelings for Chandra; Chandra thus far has mostly been presented as "Gideon is Hot and Nissa is nice, what is this thing you humans call romance?"
edit: Having seen the original: "So friendship is the limit of what you're comfortable with right now" seems incredibly out of character for how Chandra normally talks. That's dialogue I'd expect from Jace or maybe Gideon; Chandra's never quite that formal or wordy.
We need a big POV for her in the story to really know. She claims that she never saw the city-state so if this is true who knows where on the plane she went to make her deal.
To add onto this, Nissa has shown to have issues with a few of them, Lorwyn/Shadowmoor and Innistrad scared her (and who know if she could even talk to Innistrad, thought this might have been Emrakul), from her POV storylines she didn't seem to talk to Kaldesh, rather she was tracking things using the aether patterns.
Amonkhet could just be more vocal since it is dying and maybe it thinks Nissa can help save the it and/or help it die.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Did you miss Kaladesh?
That may have been your "sense" and "interpretation" but why are you choosing to ignore the plain meaning of the words in the story? The story is saying some planes have an ability to intelligently communicate with Nissa. We're talking about an imaginary world within the Magic multiverse, so they are free to make up any reality they want. In their universe, some planes appear to be actually, really sentient and can only directly communicate with very few people, including Nissa. Its their story, I don't see a need to interpret it as really meaning something else.
1: Bolas didn't create Amonkhet: This was a huge surprise for me and seems honestly far more intriguing.
2: The Gods look like they had their minds wiped: This makes it seem as if the Gods weren't the creation of Bolas either and makes one wonder if they had previously attempted to stand against Bolas and failed (Since there are 5 now rather than 8.)
3: I don't think that there is any connection to the 8 gods being a reference to Bolas's CMC. I mean no offense when I say this but it's taking two completely unrelated things and trying to connect them. (Also there is no Bolas in this set as the PW formula and Maro confirmation is that it's 3 PW in this set and 2 in the next.)
4: The edit to the story: Some people were certainly very passionate about the change being made and speculate that this is censorship. To me this seemed as if they had just adjusted the dialogue for clarification as the subject matter still very much exists.
I don't subscribe to the idea that WotC is 'sitting on the fence.' about representation considering card characters such as the Kings of Meletis and Alesha who Smiles at Death for sexual orientation and gender and I doubt they'll stop there. Many complaints have already been voiced that there isn't a lot of depth to the Gatewatch and that the stories up til now have been lackluster. Rushing romances without character building before-hand in an effort to make token references for the sake of inclusivity seems like a bad idea.
Taking the time to make meaningful characters who are not two dimensional and have a reason to actually fill the roles that you want would be better. (Not just story-wise but for inclusivity as well.)
5: Nissa's color change: I sincerely hope that this isn't a temporary change. One could argue that her ability to communicate with the plane is a form of telepathy (mind magic) as it is. Her desire to better understand and seek guidance while accepting the world for what it is makes perfect sense. She's been a solitary figure almost her entire life and it makes sense that now after a while of being around others that she starts to change and adapt (represented by a second color.) I wouldn't mind seeing secondary colors for other planeswalkers provided that they can come up with the justification for it.
6: Jace feels useless here: While we've seen Jace show up on Innistrad and do some poking around, he feels as if he's the weakest link in the Gatewatch with very little to contribute in comparison to his comrades. Also with being the Living Guildpact I'd like to see what has happened on Ravnica since he must have been gone at least months between both the stories of Kaladesh block and now Amonkhet.
Um...Chill?
I'm a gay dude yet I always shipped Chandra with Gideon,
but to be honest there has been a lot of hints suggesting that Chandra may have feelings for Nissa.
As a recently 'Out of Closet' LDS (Mormon)dude, Chandra's (and mine own) sexuality befuddles me yet I'm trying to realize that not every character, or theme in MTG has to align with my values, past, present or evolving.
There is nothing wrong with GideonXChandra, nor ChandraXNissa, or even just Chandra (difficult for her as that may be). If anything, I'm feeling Gideon's relationship with Chandra now reminds me more of that of a sibling, cousin or friend but that's my interpretation. Nissa also seems to uninterested in anything right now, which isn't really a sign of anything but that very statement.
There is nothing wrong with people morally disagreeing with what I do as a Gay, so long as they maintain respect for plurality.
There is nothing wrong with LGBTQ+ wanting and receiving greater recognition and protections, so long as they maintain respect for plurality.
The GayMormon in me says people are far too immoderate on these issues than needs be. Let's just read the story and trust that Wizards will continue making characters and stories for everyone. Even for weirdly conservative gays like myself.
Edit: let no one mistake, I'm a happy man and quite happy with my LuvLad.
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I do not mind the LGBT/trans subthemes in Magic. But what I mind are these cowardly edits. I wonder whether the articles go through some approval / proofreading before being published.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
It wasn't a cowardly edit, it was a edit that made the story/dialogue better. I think they articles go through proofreading, that's probably why the change was made in the first place. They just posted the older version by accident.
Calm down Satan.
Modern:R 8Whack R|W White Knights W
I do NOT think this is the case, but I find the idea hilarious and support it fully.
The writing of late has been getting better and better. Occasionally I trip over some of the dialogue that feels out of place, but the full sense of the characters is strong, and the story and setting are intriguing, this week especially.
Do you have any proof of what you say? If it was just an accident and innocent edit, it happened to include a really peculiar sentence and as a result, it sent mixed/potentially controversial signals.
This may sound harsh, but you created an account here just to post THIS?
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
How could someone morally disagree with you and still respect what you do? I'm opposed to, for instance, murder specifically because I think it's immoral. The whole purpose of moral judgements is to decide what people shouldnt be allowed to do.
Not really? There's been a lot of hints that Nissa has feelings for Chandra; Chandra thus far has mostly been presented as "Gideon is Hot and Nissa is nice, what is this thing you humans call romance?"
edit: Having seen the original: "So friendship is the limit of what you're comfortable with right now" seems incredibly out of character for how Chandra normally talks. That's dialogue I'd expect from Jace or maybe Gideon; Chandra's never quite that formal or wordy.