Theros had some glaring gaps and shifts as far as Greek mythology goes.
Examples?
Well off the top of my head, Theros had no analogues of Hera, Athena, or Achilles, and the most glaring shift would be that Heliod, the Zeus analogue, was the god of the Sun, rather than lightning. I'm sure there are others, but my point is that wizards was perfectly able to convey the flavor of the world without hitting every well known aspect of the source material. Already the world of Amonkhet screams "ancient Egypt" without a single cat making an appearance, so while it's slim, until it's confirmed I'm open to the idea of cats not being present in Amonkhet the way we might expect, if at all.
Theros had some glaring gaps and shifts as far as Greek mythology goes.
Examples?
Well off the top of my head, Theros had no analogues of Hera
Elements of her where used in Heliod and Ephara.
Athena
Ephara (patron god of the CITY BASED ON ATHENS), Thassa (wisdom) and Iroas (Tactical war/ opposite of blood war)
, or Achilles,
IIRC they had an Achilles card but it ended up cut. Same with a Heracles card. Same with a lot of ideas they did for tropes found in greek myths.
and the most glaring shift would be that Heliod, the Zeus analogue, was the god of the Sun, rather than lightning.
Creative made the gods by cutting up the greek gods and filling them best by the color wheel. While Zeus is know for his lightning most of what her was worshiped for is things that fall in white domains such as laws, kings, order etc which is why Helios was mostly influence by Zeus. But he also got elements of Apollo (sun, healing, protection), Hera (marriage, tradition, family, children) and Helios (Sun and light). The parts they didn't use for Helios was what they made Keranos with.
I'm sure there are others, but my point is that wizards was perfectly able to convey the flavor of the world without hitting every well known aspect of the source material. Already the world of Amonkhet screams "ancient Egypt" without a single cat making an appearance, so while it's slim, until it's confirmed I'm open to the idea of cats not being present in Amonkhet the way we might expect, if at all.
Sure they could but seeing as the public links cats with Egyptian mythology as well the fact that cats are a very popular and asked about creature type I won't bet on not seeing cats on Amonkhet.
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Hera and Athena were represented as Ephara. Heliod being a sun-related Zeus analogue might make more sense than you think, since the hellenic greek sometimes perceived Helios as Zeus' eye.
Zeus was the sky god for the record, having overthrown Uranus. Not the lightning god. So in a way, Heliod still embodies that concept, in addition to what was said before. Theros was a respectable adaptation of Greek Mythology into Magic, IMO. My issue was the glaring absence of certain myths (not that all could be covered at once, and something should be saved for the inevitable Return of course) and my second complaint was that WOTC didn't go overboard on the number of Legendaries. I actually wouldn't have minded approaching Kamigawa-level numbers. Just make a ton of them - Theros is the world for it. But the latter I can live with - they remedied that by having for example many Hydras, and a Legendary one. Many Krakens, but Tromokratis and Arixmethes as Legendary ones. Dragons, but Thraxes as a Legendary one. So they expanded it into a wild myth world with certain mythical monsters from a large population of monster races. It was a nice compromise and made Theros feel even more dangerous and mythological as an entire world of wonder and challenge to heroes.
I just hope when we return we get cards for Achilles, Heracles, Pavois and Thanasis love story, Arixmethes (Atlantis), Olantin (Atlantis again), Callaphe (Jason?), Argo (The Monsoon), Charybdis, Scylla, and other missed tropes from the first time. We really should start a list here actually. There are a lot of tropes from the Odyssey that were missed in general, although some were hit upon. Even one of the Theros Islands represents the straits which was neat, but still.
I'm honestly going to seriously upset if the freaking PLANESWALKERS and the Gatewatch eat up room in Return to Theros that should be for THEROS. I want the gods, Greek Myths, the beauty and danger of Theros to shine. I don't want a a bunch of cards with freaking Ashiok and Dack or any of that. I want Thassa in Triton form. I want to see Heliod descending on his followers with blessings and magic. I love cards like Thassa's Ire or Dictate of Heliod that depict scenes of gods interacting with heroes. Or Plea for Guidance that showcase the majesty of Theros.
There's no way in hell there won't be cats on Amonkhet. They put krakens on Theros because of public expectations created by a single movie(and it's remake). One of the most recognizable aspects of Egyptian mythology is cats as protectors (whatever but nut case had that idea). No way in hell there aren't cats or leonine on Amonkhet.
Well... Egypt was a rural society and cats were natural enemies of rats, which can eat all your reserves of food very fast, so...
Seeing them as protectors seems almost logical.
Thank you. That was a joke. I don't like cats. More of a dog guy. Same reason I said rakshasas creature types are redundant when Tarkir came out.
I wonder if that's the Amonkhet Sebek? Or a statue of him?
Why so overcast, though? Not that Egypt doesn't have overcast days, but I expected more of a sunny desert oasis look. The overcast scheme is better suited for Innistrad. I was annoyed when Shipbreaker Kraken's art was changed from a very Greek-feeling battle in the straits art to an annoying overcast murky art instead, for example. Greece and Egypt Worlds are definitely the place to break out the contrast and vibrance. While this is often the case, the cover of this book could have benefitted more from showcasing how lively the world is. It's a beautiful piece but I'm expecting some bright yellows and oranges in Amonkhet's color palate come next year.
I think I read somewhere, relating to Amonkhet info, that the civilization is surrounded by a near constant sandstorm, and the oasis is protected from the storm (my feeling is presumably by Bolas). So the overcast look at the horizon makes sense.
While I don't think it will happen, if there's any place it can happen, it's here. I don't think the maelstorm affected him in any way, but rather I think the context of Amonkhet MIGHT be enough to bring some white and green to him.
You know what would be really cool? If this was the start of a storyline leading our way back to DOminaria! I know this is likely going to end up being Nicol Bolas' home plane, but many have felt he was originally from DOminaria and it would be a cool twist if this opens the gateway (maybe literally!?!?) to good old Dominaria!
You know what would be really cool? If this was the start of a storyline leading our way back to DOminaria! I know this is likely going to end up being Nicol Bolas' home plane, but many have felt he was originally from DOminaria and it would be a cool twist if this opens the gateway (maybe literally!?!?) to good old Dominaria!
Given we're coming up on the 25th anniversary, I think that's a reasonable suspicion. I'd bet that either the fall 2017 or summer 2018 set is a Return to Dominaria.
Now that we're going to Amonkhet, it's why I had a bit of an issue with the Theros gods not all appearing exclusively human (as Heliod does). Greek Mythology was all about its gods being human in appearance and even in behavior/shortcomings when it came to being petty, jealous or meddling. No doubt the Amonkhet gods will resemble their Egyptian counterparts with animal influences. So Theros gods having elements of this, while not entirely unwelcome, felt a little out of place for Greek world. Still, there could be stark enough differences in the pantheons so that Theros can still feel Greek relative to Amonkhet's supposed Egyptian vibe.
Now that we're going to Amonkhet, it's why I had a bit of an issue with the Theros gods not all appearing exclusively human (as Heliod does). Greek Mythology was all about its gods being human in appearance and even in behavior/shortcomings when it came to being petty, jealous or meddling. No doubt the Amonkhet gods will resemble their Egyptian counterparts with animal influences. So Theros gods having elements of this, while not entirely unwelcome, felt a little out of place for Greek world. Still, there could be stark enough differences in the pantheons so that Theros can still feel Greek relative to Amonkhet's supposed Egyptian vibe.
Yeah but unlike Theros, real life greek mythology wasn't worshipped by non-humanoid beings, like centaurs, minotaurs, gorgons, tritons etc.
Don't know if there's been some info out yet, other than the keywords five gods' trial, but my assumption would be that Nicol Bolas is certainly one of them, since most gods of the egyption mythology are wearing a disk between their horns.
And second guess would be that the gods are three colored. We didn't have those in Theros, so maybe now? Think there are ten possible combinations though, but maybe the others are demigods or something? Not like the egyptian mythologie doesn't offer many to choose from either way though.
Don't know if there's been some info out yet, other than the keywords five gods' trial, but my assumption would be that Nicol Bolas is certainly one of them, since most gods of the egyption mythology are wearing a disk between their horns.
And second guess would be that the gods are three colored. We didn't have those in Theros, so maybe now? Think there are ten possible combinations though, but maybe the others are demigods or something? Not like the egyptian mythologie doesn't offer many to choose from either way though.
Interesting, I can't say I ever thought of the whole "Gem of Becoming is magic's take on the Sun Disk" thing, but it could definitely work. I'm not sure about the shard/wedge gods though, simply because I think it takes away from the idea that Bolas rules the entire plane if he has to share the spotlight like that.
Now that we're going to Amonkhet, it's why I had a bit of an issue with the Theros gods not all appearing exclusively human (as Heliod does). Greek Mythology was all about its gods being human in appearance and even in behavior/shortcomings when it came to being petty, jealous or meddling. No doubt the Amonkhet gods will resemble their Egyptian counterparts with animal influences. So Theros gods having elements of this, while not entirely unwelcome, felt a little out of place for Greek world. Still, there could be stark enough differences in the pantheons so that Theros can still feel Greek relative to Amonkhet's supposed Egyptian vibe.
Yeah but unlike Theros, real life greek mythology wasn't worshipped by non-humanoid beings, like centaurs, minotaurs, gorgons, tritons etc.
This. And the Greek gods were certainly human in appearance (barring the ones that weren't), but they were able to turn into other animals and such as well. Relative to the plane itself, the gods made sense. It's not like Thassa was a Moonfolk or something.
Also although most representations of greek gods are humanoid a few more obscure representations show them with animalistic traits. Let's not forget things like the bee goddesses, serpetine depictions of Athena or Pan.
Now that we're going to Amonkhet, it's why I had a bit of an issue with the Theros gods not all appearing exclusively human (as Heliod does). Greek Mythology was all about its gods being human in appearance and even in behavior/shortcomings when it came to being petty, jealous or meddling. No doubt the Amonkhet gods will resemble their Egyptian counterparts with animal influences. So Theros gods having elements of this, while not entirely unwelcome, felt a little out of place for Greek world. Still, there could be stark enough differences in the pantheons so that Theros can still feel Greek relative to Amonkhet's supposed Egyptian vibe.
Yeah but unlike Theros, real life greek mythology wasn't worshipped by non-humanoid beings, like centaurs, minotaurs, gorgons, tritons etc.
This. And the Greek gods were certainly human in appearance (barring the ones that weren't), but they were able to turn into other animals and such as well. Relative to the plane itself, the gods made sense. It's not like Thassa was a Moonfolk or something.
Well, Godsend did have the gods shifting forms. Thassa becoming a flock of seabirds, for example, or the great Eye, etc. It's their favored form that I figured would be human so they're distinctly Greek influenced when a new pantheon like Amonkhet's comes along and draws significantly from humanoid animal representations. I'm not suggesting anything is wrong with how the Theros gods were assembled, it's quite obvious I'm a major Theros fan. I'm just curious how uniquely Greek they'll feel when Amonket introduces its own gods. I suspect they'll be so animal-based that Theros having triton-looking and centaur-looking etc. gods will still stand out and be different enough. Relative to the world yes, the Theros gods made sense.
Something I hope to see in return to Theros is more mortal and god interaction in art. Like in Dictate of Heliod. I don't like the gods always appearing larger than life smashing mountains and all that. Sometimes the most admirable thing about the Greek gods was how they meddled on individual basis on seemingly petty and trivial affairs that ballooned out into catastrophic events - such as Paris and the Golden Apple leading to Aphrodite to captivate one queen which lead to a 10 year Torjan war. I'm dying to see Thassa's triton form on a human-level. She's described as being barley taller than Elspeth in that form, with fathomless eyes and of course, the Nyx starfield.
Ah. Well, I can't say how much they'll manage to make the Theros gods stand out relative to the Amonkhet gods, but if they're more similar that's not too surprising. I imagine that what will make them stand out, in part, will at least be a lack of Nyx elements, which is a pretty big Theros exclusive thing. Possibly some other unifying theme will be there for Amonkhet in comparison, which will probably help differentiate them more.
Zeus is a sky father, his name literally means "Day" to the greks lightning was added in to this,but Heliod was not a departure, he was the sky fatger archetype of Zeus melded with Helios and Apollos sun aspect becasue in Greece the sun was diffused from the sky father and given to other gods.
After a twitter convo with an egyptologist into magic, it sounds like Amonkhetu is the most flavorful name for people and things from Amonkhet (instead of Amonkheti or something).
Gatewatch minus Ajani head to Amonkhet trying to stop Bolas or at least mess up his plans.
Unknown to the rest of the group the third of the fourth of Lilianas demon lords, Razaketh, also resides on Amonkhet.
Bolas is planning something. His recent action have been sending Tezzeret to New Phyrexia to spy then Kaladesh to gather inventions, where Tezzeret was delighted to find a device that he turned into a planar bridge. Bolas also set up Sarkhan, Chandra and Jace into opening the Eye of Ugin and freeing the Eldrazi. How this effects his plans how that 2/3 titans have been burned to ashes and EMrakul has been sealed away into Innistrads moon in unknown.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
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Examples?
Well off the top of my head, Theros had no analogues of Hera, Athena, or Achilles, and the most glaring shift would be that Heliod, the Zeus analogue, was the god of the Sun, rather than lightning. I'm sure there are others, but my point is that wizards was perfectly able to convey the flavor of the world without hitting every well known aspect of the source material. Already the world of Amonkhet screams "ancient Egypt" without a single cat making an appearance, so while it's slim, until it's confirmed I'm open to the idea of cats not being present in Amonkhet the way we might expect, if at all.
Elements of her where used in Heliod and Ephara.
Ephara (patron god of the CITY BASED ON ATHENS), Thassa (wisdom) and Iroas (Tactical war/ opposite of blood war)
IIRC they had an Achilles card but it ended up cut. Same with a Heracles card. Same with a lot of ideas they did for tropes found in greek myths.
Creative made the gods by cutting up the greek gods and filling them best by the color wheel. While Zeus is know for his lightning most of what her was worshiped for is things that fall in white domains such as laws, kings, order etc which is why Helios was mostly influence by Zeus. But he also got elements of Apollo (sun, healing, protection), Hera (marriage, tradition, family, children) and Helios (Sun and light). The parts they didn't use for Helios was what they made Keranos with.
Sure they could but seeing as the public links cats with Egyptian mythology as well the fact that cats are a very popular and asked about creature type I won't bet on not seeing cats on Amonkhet.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I just hope when we return we get cards for Achilles, Heracles, Pavois and Thanasis love story, Arixmethes (Atlantis), Olantin (Atlantis again), Callaphe (Jason?), Argo (The Monsoon), Charybdis, Scylla, and other missed tropes from the first time. We really should start a list here actually. There are a lot of tropes from the Odyssey that were missed in general, although some were hit upon. Even one of the Theros Islands represents the straits which was neat, but still.
I'm honestly going to seriously upset if the freaking PLANESWALKERS and the Gatewatch eat up room in Return to Theros that should be for THEROS. I want the gods, Greek Myths, the beauty and danger of Theros to shine. I don't want a a bunch of cards with freaking Ashiok and Dack or any of that. I want Thassa in Triton form. I want to see Heliod descending on his followers with blessings and magic. I love cards like Thassa's Ire or Dictate of Heliod that depict scenes of gods interacting with heroes. Or Plea for Guidance that showcase the majesty of Theros.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Thank you. That was a joke. I don't like cats. More of a dog guy. Same reason I said rakshasas creature types are redundant when Tarkir came out.
I think I read somewhere, relating to Amonkhet info, that the civilization is surrounded by a near constant sandstorm, and the oasis is protected from the storm (my feeling is presumably by Bolas). So the overcast look at the horizon makes sense.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Yeah but unlike Theros, real life greek mythology wasn't worshipped by non-humanoid beings, like centaurs, minotaurs, gorgons, tritons etc.
And second guess would be that the gods are three colored. We didn't have those in Theros, so maybe now? Think there are ten possible combinations though, but maybe the others are demigods or something? Not like the egyptian mythologie doesn't offer many to choose from either way though.
Interesting, I can't say I ever thought of the whole "Gem of Becoming is magic's take on the Sun Disk" thing, but it could definitely work. I'm not sure about the shard/wedge gods though, simply because I think it takes away from the idea that Bolas rules the entire plane if he has to share the spotlight like that.
This. And the Greek gods were certainly human in appearance (barring the ones that weren't), but they were able to turn into other animals and such as well. Relative to the plane itself, the gods made sense. It's not like Thassa was a Moonfolk or something.
Something I hope to see in return to Theros is more mortal and god interaction in art. Like in Dictate of Heliod. I don't like the gods always appearing larger than life smashing mountains and all that. Sometimes the most admirable thing about the Greek gods was how they meddled on individual basis on seemingly petty and trivial affairs that ballooned out into catastrophic events - such as Paris and the Golden Apple leading to Aphrodite to captivate one queen which lead to a 10 year Torjan war. I'm dying to see Thassa's triton form on a human-level. She's described as being barley taller than Elspeth in that form, with fathomless eyes and of course, the Nyx starfield.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
also is Flisch the same Flisch of spore forums?
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Gatewatch minus Ajani head to Amonkhet trying to stop Bolas or at least mess up his plans.
Unknown to the rest of the group the third of the fourth of Lilianas demon lords, Razaketh, also resides on Amonkhet.
Bolas is planning something. His recent action have been sending Tezzeret to New Phyrexia to spy then Kaladesh to gather inventions, where Tezzeret was delighted to find a device that he turned into a planar bridge. Bolas also set up Sarkhan, Chandra and Jace into opening the Eye of Ugin and freeing the Eldrazi. How this effects his plans how that 2/3 titans have been burned to ashes and EMrakul has been sealed away into Innistrads moon in unknown.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"