I don't understand why people act like these podcasts are designed to be in-depth Q&A about plot shortcomings and major behind the scenes engineering of the story. Literally just story team talking about story things. Talk about being whiny babies.
I feel lucky to even get clarification on the mending. And I for one enjoy flavor nuances like Tamiyo's family. As well as recognition that Jace and Liliana's relationship is purposely abusive (mutually). Looking forward to how that plays out, as well as to what capacity the 3 missing gods will play a role in Hour of Devastation.
Wow, it is great that they've answered stuff like:
''How come Gideon managed to punch Ulamog but couldn't fight off two initiates?''
''Did Chandra ever finish elementary school because she sure as hell doesn't act like she did?''
''How come Nissa can rewrite gods like they are nothing? Even by the smallest extent.''
''Why is Gatewatch undefeatable?''
''Why is Bolas acting so out of character with leaving hints of his involvement on Amonketh? Bolas is 20+ thousand years old, several years needed to make 100% sure that his plan goes smoothly is a heartbeat to someone like him.''
''Eldrazi titans couldn't have been defeated by godlike oldwalkers but Chandra had managed to burn them with the help of Zendikar?''
''Why are you so eager to kill off Gideon so that you can push Chandra x Nissa?''
There is a ton more but I can't remember them from the top of my head.
Like Ajduk had said, none of these questions that were asked were sumbitted by people who read the story because I honestly doubt that a majority of us gives a crap about babies on Amonketh and would rather have one of my ''plot problem'' types of questions answered than that. Amonketh babies, Tamiyo's kids...give me a break. Nobody cares about that stuff.
This is some toxic stuff. Out of the questions asked the only one I had any interest in was the time frame for the Mending (wish they mentioned when Alara). But every question has been asked on these forums, so to say "Nobody cares about that stuff" is a level of ignorance and arrogance that is unhealthy.
As for your questions, not a single one of them is actually interesting, and most have answers.
1. Why is a punch equivalent to fighting off?
2. What does elementary school have to do with personality?
3. Because her established power set lined up favorably with the gods mechanic
4. They aren't (or minus foreshadow)
5. They specifically said he was in a rush. A heart beat is a long time when you feel you only have a few dozen left.
6. This a is a basic misunderstanding of facts, come back after you have read the story correctly.
7. Only this forum is "So eager" to kill off any Gatewatch members. Don't push your anti LGBT here.
8. It doesn't matter if a majority don't care about these questions, someone cared enough to submit the question.
Plotholes bother me too, but I enjoyed the Q&A. Don't know why certain people expect Creative to use a Q&A podcast to put on a sackcloth-and-ashes repentance session.
There were some helpful clarifications. The timing of the Mending was good to hear, and the connection of it to the Kaladesh Aether boom was an interesting tidbit.
They mentioned before that the mending did effect some of the other planes (Ravnica, Lorwyn/Shadowmoor, places with planar portals) so I think the mending causes something on Kaladesh that helped lead to the great aether boom.
I appreciate that they acknowledge the oddity of the Gatewatch's experience on Amonkhet, and do their best to justify it (though again, why Nicol Bolas wouldn't have programmed Oketra to kill trespassers instead of welcoming them...).
I'm guessing from what we seen that the gods aren't fully under Bolas claws and have a degree of being able to act on their own. I think as long as the gatewatch behaved Oketra was able to "protect them" and Hazoret willing to forgive Samut if she promised to keep silent. But when it got to the point when Gatewatch and Samut were clearly fighting and trying to stop the cycle of the trials, the gods (seeming) where willing to let them be killed.
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Haha. Just a day or two ago I was reading the timeline that was linked in this thread. I remember thinking "wow, the aetherboom on Kaladesh seems like it happened near the time of the Mending, I wonder if the two are related?"
Too bad I didn't actually post it to get in their folder lol.
As for number 6. It is a misunderstanding on your part.
Ugin, Spring, and Nahiri were capable of killing the eldralz. Ugin refused to in fear that he could upset an ecosystem beyond his understanding, therefore releasing an even greater threat into the multiverse. That's why Ugin was so upset the the gatewatch killed the Titans.
There is a big difference between COULDN'T and WOULDN'T.
They voluntarily went through the the effort to trap and not to kill, which would have been easier.
Hmmm. I'm not sure on that actually, I couldn't say if there is or isn't.
I do know Ugin wanted to trap and study them, as for Nahiri and Sorin I'm not actually sure. So you could be right.
Wow, it is great that they've answered stuff like:
''How come Gideon managed to punch Ulamog but couldn't fight off two initiates?''
''Did Chandra ever finish elementary school because she sure as hell doesn't act like she did?''
''How come Nissa can rewrite gods like they are nothing? Even by the smallest extent.''
''Why is Gatewatch undefeatable?''
''Why is Bolas acting so out of character with leaving hints of his involvement on Amonketh? Bolas is 20+ thousand years old, several years needed to make 100% sure that his plan goes smoothly is a heartbeat to someone like him.''
''Eldrazi titans couldn't have been defeated by godlike oldwalkers but Chandra had managed to burn them with the help of Zendikar?''
''Why are you so eager to kill off Gideon so that you can push Chandra x Nissa?''
There is a ton more but I can't remember them from the top of my head.
Like Ajduk had said, none of these questions that were asked were sumbitted by people who read the story because I honestly doubt that a majority of us gives a crap about babies on Amonketh and would rather have one of my ''plot problem'' types of questions answered than that. Amonketh babies, Tamiyo's kids...give me a break. Nobody cares about that stuff.
This is some toxic stuff. Out of the questions asked the only one I had any interest in was the time frame for the Mending (wish they mentioned when Alara). But every question has been asked on these forums, so to say "Nobody cares about that stuff" is a level of ignorance and arrogance that is unhealthy.
As for your questions, not a single one of them is actually interesting, and most have answers.
1. Why is a punch equivalent to fighting off?
2. What does elementary school have to do with personality?
3. Because her established power set lined up favorably with the gods mechanic
4. They aren't (or minus foreshadow)
5. They specifically said he was in a rush. A heart beat is a long time when you feel you only have a few dozen left.
6. This a is a basic misunderstanding of facts, come back after you have read the story correctly.
7. Only this forum is "So eager" to kill off any Gatewatch members. Don't push your anti LGBT here.
8. It doesn't matter if a majority don't care about these questions, someone cared enough to submit the question.
I'm sorry if my post had triggered you. It wasn't meant to be offensive but I refuse to act happy-go-lucky with what we're given only because you're satisfied with it and you don't see any problems with it. If my opinion is toxic to you then I'm sorry but not everyone is going to agree with you on your opinion, nor cater to it, and you should accept that and get used to it. That is how the world works.
1. He punched an ELDRAZI TITAN! That is the biggest plot hole in the entire story. If he can punch an eldrazi titan and, even briefly, hold it at bay than he should be able to fight off two initiates.
2. It teaches you social skills and Chandra has none. Her character is essentially a stubborn 5 year old.
3. This is a major flaw on the story. They are GODS! I'm not the only one who shares this opinion. Go back a couple of pages and read this thread.
4. So far they are. They very much are and if you've been reading this forum, especially ''Your opinion on the Gatewatch'' thread than you would have seen that a good part of this community is sick of it.
5. No, they never said that he was in a rush. It was speculated by a mere mortal (Samut).
6. It is not. You should re read all the Zendikar stories. Oldwalkers couldn't kill them but the neowalkers could? That is just silly (to be fair Oath has a lot of wtf moments)
7. Nice attempt at silencing me with shouting ''ANTI-LGBT! ANTI-LGBT!''. I DON'T have to like something. No one is forcing me to like it. My statement was not anti LGBT in the slightest. I don't give a damn if they are lesbians or not. I just find it bad that it looks like they will kill off Chandra's former hinted at love interest (read Purifying Fire) to make this lesbian relationship less awkward but that is just my view on the situation. If they do it without killing off Gideon I'll be extremely happy. I acutally like the character and I don't want to see it go for that reason.
8. You honestly thing that those ''carefully picked totally not random'' questions were actually submitted? I honestly doubt that.
Well, the world also doesn't have to cater to your dislike of the storyline either. So there. Since the Q&A was answering fan questions, it seems to me that not everyone puts this enormous importance on easily answered or at least explainable "plotholes" (or in some cases opinions of yours).
Let's see here:
1. First of, he is both a planeswalker (which have an immunity against the chaotic blind eternities thanks to the spark, which also extends to beings from the eternities aka the eldrazi (see Spatial Contortion)). Secondly he is indestructible. He didn't hold off Ulamog, he only fought off one tentacle (barely). The whole scene has been severely blown out of proportion anyway.
2. She is a hothead and not very mature. So what? Many people are like this, she didn't have a normal childhood, was far away from her homeworld for a long time and is a channeler of red mana, which is tied to extreme emotions. You might not like this kind of character, but it says nothing about the quality of the story.
3. Yes and the answers to that (including my own) were pretty conclusive about the issue. Instead you seem to have ignored them completely just to moan about the same plotpoint over and over again, when the answer to this "problem" was given to you before. This is not constructive criticism. To summarize: Gods in magic have never been "above it all" and "unchangable by mere mortals". Hell, the Theros gods are dependent on mortal belief and it was shown by Ashiok that with enough time he could be able to manipulate this system to create a god (not to mention Xenagos apotheosis). Nissa is able to manipulate flows of mana/leylines. She observed Bolas changing the gods. She noticed his maniulation in the god himself and tried to do something similar but much more miniscule herself, barely succeeding. There is even more reasoning for why she was able to do this, but I don't want to repeat myself here again.
4. People who feel negatively about something tend to be the loudest and most active in any community, often ignoring or putting down anyone who disagrees with them. Doesn't mean that the majority agrees with them, even if they often believe that to be the case. That's true for the internet as a whole, but I digress...
5. There was nothing contradicting her either. We don't know about it yet since Bolas is just now appearing and we haven't had a story about his POV yet. There could be quite a few reasons why he left behind evidence, including the fact that he is neither omnipotent nor omniscient.
6. Urgh, I don't want to restate my points every time someone brings this up. The gatewatch didn't defeat the Eldrazi titans by themselves, they needed all the work the trio of oldalkers did before them to succeed: The hedron network, Ugin's Insight, the wild mana and sentience of Zendikar and so on and so on. Also Ugin just didn't WANT the eldrazi titans dead. It was explained and was certainly no deus ex machina. Whether you liked it is a whole different story.
7. "Why are you so eager to kill off Gideon so that you can push Chandra x Nissa" were your words. But it doesn't seem like they want to kill of Gideon at the moment and the NissaxChandra relationship was put on ice by Nissa herself for now. And Gideon and Chandra had their moments together too.
8. Can you prove it not to be the case? And even if you were right about that, what makes your questions so important?
You come across as being negative for the sake of negativity.
As for number 6. It is a misunderstanding on your part.
Ugin, Spring, and Nahiri were capable of killing the eldralz. Ugin refused to in fear that he could upset an ecosystem beyond his understanding, therefore releasing an even greater threat into the multiverse. That's why Ugin was so upset the the gatewatch killed the Titans.
There is a big difference between COULDN'T and WOULDN'T.
They voluntarily went through the the effort to trap and not to kill, which would have been easier.
Don't quote me on this one but I'm 100% sure that there is a story out there that says that Sorin and Nahiri had tried to kill the titans but that they couldn't do it and only after that did the run into Sorin. It might have been retconed, though.
One person said such an event was mentioned in the Zen art book, but nobody has posted a scan of this and it was never mentioned by anyone again. So it probably wasn't. If someone has the art book I would love to see a scan of that mention, I have been a combination of unable and unwilling to get the art books.
On your other points. Your post is toxic because you aren't asking questions so much as hurrying accusations. Nearly everyone else is trying to be constructive. Just because an answer has been unsatisfactory to you doesn't mean they haven't answered. People go through 12 or more years of school with out developing those skills, her not having them isn't unbelievable. Also the concept of school as we know it is actually an interesting topic for the multiverse, because from what we know Chandra almost certainly didn't finish elementary school, if she ever attended at all. You had two points "please don't kill gideon" and "random anti-lgbt statement", one is a perfectly reasonable stance that many here (not me) disagree with, the other is unhelpful hate speech, I addressed both. Finally, and this is my main point, you don't have to like everything (I don't) but dont assume that no one was happy with what was given. As I said each of the questions asked has been asked on this forum so someone is interested and happy to have gotten an answer.
As for number 6. It is a misunderstanding on your part.
Ugin, Spring, and Nahiri were capable of killing the eldralz. Ugin refused to in fear that he could upset an ecosystem beyond his understanding, therefore releasing an even greater threat into the multiverse. That's why Ugin was so upset the the gatewatch killed the Titans.
There is a big difference between COULDN'T and WOULDN'T.
They voluntarily went through the the effort to trap and not to kill, which would have been easier.
Don't quote me on this one but I'm 100% sure that there is a story out there that says that Sorin and Nahiri had tried to kill the titans but that they couldn't do it and only after that did the run into Sorin. It might have been retconed, though.
Yes, they couldn't defeat them because they didn't have Ugin's Insight. He didn't tell them how to "submerge" the titans into a plane, therefore they both only fought the 3D "shadows" of the Eldrazi before.
I for one find it hard to believe that anyone is still complaining about the BFZ/Oath stories and are still demanding answers. I get it, plotholes can be annoying, but how can anyone still be interested in those? We are officially in the middle of the third set block after Oath and BFZ. Yes, there are plotholes there, but please just move on. Maybe my opinion is in the minority, but I really don't care about those anymore, and overall the stories have improved vastly.
As for number 6. It is a misunderstanding on your part.
Ugin, Spring, and Nahiri were capable of killing the eldralz. Ugin refused to in fear that he could upset an ecosystem beyond his understanding, therefore releasing an even greater threat into the multiverse. That's why Ugin was so upset the the gatewatch killed the Titans.
There is a big difference between COULDN'T and WOULDN'T.
They voluntarily went through the the effort to trap and not to kill, which would have been easier.
Don't quote me on this one but I'm 100% sure that there is a story out there that says that Sorin and Nahiri had tried to kill the titans but that they couldn't do it and only after that did the run into Sorin. It might have been retconed, though.
Yes, they couldn't defeat them because they didn't have Ugin's Insight. He didn't tell them how to "submerge" the titans into a plane, therefore they both only fought the 3D "shadows" of the Eldrazi before.
Didn't they not even fight the shadows but the Endless spawn? I assume you are talking about the story where Nahiri forges that sword then the plane dies, if your are talking about the art book entry then that is interesting to know, does it mention which Titan?
As someone who has heavily criticized many plot holes in BFZ/Oath and since, I have no interest in them answering questions about a mistake. Acknowledging them perhaps, but only to avoid repeating them, not to shame Creative for slip ups. That's just not interesting to me when there are actual answers I am seeking regarding the solid point of the lore.
I really would have loved some insight on the implications of the Bident theft. And how Arixmethes/Thassa evaded Kiora's magic. Divinity?
Tamiyo's life is a major interest of mine, especially insight into the current state of Kamigawa - but whether her kids are biologically hers seemed implied already. I thought the Nezumi was her only adopted one. Anyway, Tamiyo question good, that one not so much. But at least we know she's not "married"
The questions seemed decent. Not like "how do you guys make a 2/2 flier relevant in the story? Like how do you do that?" I will never forget that moment.
As for number 6. It is a misunderstanding on your part.
Ugin, Spring, and Nahiri were capable of killing the eldralz. Ugin refused to in fear that he could upset an ecosystem beyond his understanding, therefore releasing an even greater threat into the multiverse. That's why Ugin was so upset the the gatewatch killed the Titans.
There is a big difference between COULDN'T and WOULDN'T.
They voluntarily went through the the effort to trap and not to kill, which would have been easier.
Don't quote me on this one but I'm 100% sure that there is a story out there that says that Sorin and Nahiri had tried to kill the titans but that they couldn't do it and only after that did the run into Sorin. It might have been retconed, though.
Yes, they couldn't defeat them because they didn't have Ugin's Insight. He didn't tell them how to "submerge" the titans into a plane, therefore they both only fought the 3D "shadows" of the Eldrazi before.
Didn't they not even fight the shadows but the Endless spawn? I assume you are talking about the story where Nahiri forges that sword then the plane dies, if your are talking about the art book entry then that is interesting to know, does it mention which Titan?
I meant that they couldn't actually hurt the titans because of this. I don't even know whether they fought the "shadows" at all. I think it was implied once that they tried to, but I have no memory off where that came from.
Tamiyo's life is a major interest of mine, especially insight into the current state of Kamigawa - but whether her kids are biologically hers seemed implied already. I thought the Nezumi was her only adopted one. Anyway, Tamiyo question good, that one not so much. But at least we know she's not "married"
This is how I took people wanting to know about Tamiyo kids, they don't, they wanted to know more about Tamiyo as a whole.
Plus besides post-Kaladesh Chandra, Kiora, and Tamiyo are the only planeswalkers we know who have any family still alive and has a positive relationship with them (Narset mother was mentioned but her current statues is unknown as well as Jaces parents last seen when he first went off to train, though he can't remember them).
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
3. This is a major flaw on the story. They are GODS! I'm not the only one who shares this opinion. Go back a couple of pages and read this thread.
No they are Giant Naturally Occurring Mana-Constructs made of complex Leylines that are called gods. Of every fandom in existence The Magic The Gathering one should understand that being called a god does not make you one.
6. It is not. You should re read all the Zendikar stories. Oldwalkers couldn't kill them but the neowalkers could? That is just silly (to be fair Oath has a lot of wtf moments)
Because the Oldwalker in Charge did not -want- to kill the Eldrazi because he is a eons old Elder Dragon.
Don't quote me on this one but I'm 100% sure that there is a story out there that says that Sorin and Nahiri had tried to kill the titans but that they couldn't do it and only after that did the run into Sorin. It might have been retconed, though.
Yeah, because Nahiri and Sorin weren't going about it the right way. Ugin was studying the Eldrazi as Sorin and Nahiri were fighting them.
7. Nice attempt at silencing me with shouting ''ANTI-LGBT! ANTI-LGBT!''. I DON'T have to like something. No one is forcing me to like it. My statement was not anti LGBT in the slightest. I don't give a damn if they are lesbians or not. I just find it bad that it looks like they will kill off Chandra's former hinted at love interest (read Purifying Fire) to make this lesbian relationship less awkward but that is just my view on the situation. If they do it without killing off Gideon I'll be extremely happy. I acutally like the character and I don't want to see it go for that reason.
Gideon, is not dying, one of the Gatewatch are dying anytime soon, and Chandra/Nissa does entirely reek of "Diversity" The pair have zero chemistry and will make Jace/Liliana look like a good relationship. Chandra will trample over Nissa like an elephant.
3. This is a major flaw on the story. They are GODS! I'm not the only one who shares this opinion. Go back a couple of pages and read this thread.
No they are Giant Naturally Occurring Mana-Constructs made of complex Leylines that are called gods. Of every fandom in existence The Magic The Gathering one should understand that being called a god does not make you one.
What differentiates Magic from other fandoms is that we have actual cards with creature types we can refer to when in doubt - Amonkhet-deities are Gods per the card. What we now learn is the nature of Gods on Amonkhet and to an extend in the multiverse in general. The thing Gods so far had in common: Very powerful and that power is tied to the plane (in the case of Theros through the nature of Ny, in the case of Amonkhet through the leylines).
Is Nissa manipulating a god any more outrageous than another neowalker creating a proto-god on Theros? If you are a specialist in manipulating the power a being is based on you should be able to use that specialisation. If the writing was less superficial we might have gotten a better idea about how much effort actually went into this manipulation.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
3. This is a major flaw on the story. They are GODS! I'm not the only one who shares this opinion. Go back a couple of pages and read this thread.
No they are Giant Naturally Occurring Mana-Constructs made of complex Leylines that are called gods. Of every fandom in existence The Magic The Gathering one should understand that being called a god does not make you one.
What differentiates Magic from other fandoms is that we have actual cards with creature types we can refer to when in doubt - Amonkhet-deities are Gods per the card. What we now learn is the nature of Gods on Amonkhet and to an extend in the multiverse in general. The thing Gods so far had in common: Very powerful and that power is tied to the plane (in the case of Theros through the nature of Ny, in the case of Amonkhet through the leylines).
Is Nissa manipulating a god any more outrageous than another neowalker creating a proto-god on Theros? If you are a specialist in manipulating the power a being is based on you should be able to use that specialisation. If the writing was less superficial we might have gotten a better idea about how much effort actually went into this manipulation.
We spent the first 15? years of the setting having it thrown in our face that Planeswalkers get mistaken for Gods all the time. Just because it gets called a God does not mean it is an actual divine deity. The closest thing we have come to actual Divinity in the setting are the High Level Kamigawin spirits.
3. This is a major flaw on the story. They are GODS! I'm not the only one who shares this opinion. Go back a couple of pages and read this thread.
No they are Giant Naturally Occurring Mana-Constructs made of complex Leylines that are called gods. Of every fandom in existence The Magic The Gathering one should understand that being called a god does not make you one.
What differentiates Magic from other fandoms is that we have actual cards with creature types we can refer to when in doubt - Amonkhet-deities are Gods per the card. What we now learn is the nature of Gods on Amonkhet and to an extend in the multiverse in general. The thing Gods so far had in common: Very powerful and that power is tied to the plane (in the case of Theros through the nature of Ny, in the case of Amonkhet through the leylines).
Is Nissa manipulating a god any more outrageous than another neowalker creating a proto-god on Theros? If you are a specialist in manipulating the power a being is based on you should be able to use that specialisation. If the writing was less superficial we might have gotten a better idea about how much effort actually went into this manipulation.
We spent the first 15? years of the setting having it thrown in our face that Planeswalkers get mistaken for Gods all the time. Just because it gets called a God does not mean it is an actual divine deity. The closest thing we have come to actual Divinity in the setting are the High Level Kamigawin spirits.
The problem you all seem to be having is "too many assumptions on what being a God actually entails". In Magic a gods appears to be no more than a high level incarnation. Any other traits you are assigning them are assumptions.
We spent the first 15? years of the setting having it thrown in our face that Planeswalkers get mistaken for Gods all the time. Just because it gets called a God does not mean it is an actual divine deity. The closest thing we have come to actual Divinity in the setting are the High Level Kamigawin spirits.
Those were oldwalkers, though. Y'know, the near-omnipotent beings that made the writing staff create the Time Spiral block so they could get rid off them? I don't Think you can invoke that argument when WotC fundamentally changed the entire setting to prevent it. Neowalkers are supposed to be wizards, very powerful ones at that, but still not "mistaken for Gods" powerful.
(Granted, you could argue that Gideon could be mistaken for a God on some plane, but at that point, the "mistaken for Gods" statement loses any relevancy to the reading audience, because what a tier of power a "God" is supposed to be is so fluid, it might as well be meaningless)
The problem you all seem to be having is "too many assumptions on what being a God actually entails". In Magic a gods appears to be no more than a high level incarnation. Any other traits you are assigning them are assumptions.
As for the claim about assumption about Gods, well... when terms like "Gods" are being thrown around, most of us probably fill in what being a God entails from other settings or mythology, which in most cases carry with it the expectation that they're the be-all, end-all of their setting. Yes, it's assumptive, but what else are we supposed to do? When you say "God", I'm not going to be able to act like it's a word that I've never heard before and has no prior context.
I will admit that I'm much less upset about Nissa overcoming Kefnet now than when I first read it, but I still feel that it was poorly written, because the Gods-are-made-of-leylines thing felt like it was an ass-pull. Had that fact been established earlier, I think it would have been less controversial.
Assuming the Gods are powerful isn't the problem. It's the extra assumptions that go with this power. The most important skills a planeswalker brings to a new world is outside knowledge. Elspeth was able to easily fend off Heliod in their initial encounter because she knew spells he didn't. But she was still far weaker than him. Nissa's whole specialty (since her reenvisioning) has been leyline manipulation. This is a rare and powerful ability (most of the Gatewatch have similar 'hack' like abilities) and it was used in a reasonable way.
Going back it seems more like most people's problems with this event stems from their preferred understanding of leylines. And that might be an interesting discussion onto itself, if we can divorce it of the negativity people are associating with this story event.
We spent the first 15? years of the setting having it thrown in our face that Planeswalkers get mistaken for Gods all the time. Just because it gets called a God does not mean it is an actual divine deity. The closest thing we have come to actual Divinity in the setting are the High Level Kamigawin spirits.
Also we have twenty actual God creature cards. Have you even read the post you are quoting?
The problem you all seem to be having is "too many assumptions on what being a God actually entails". In Magic a gods appears to be no more than a high level incarnation. Any other traits you are assigning them are assumptions.
This seems on point. Deities come in many shapes and forms and across cultures have different attributes. And if they are to be represented as cards these have a physical presence as well as a divine presence. On Amonkhet a God is a manifestation of mana that looks after and protects the plane's populace and is revered by them, as well as having a specific field of expertise and insight into the minds of lesser beings to better guide them. There is no power level implied here other than being more capable than an individual person.
Also we have twenty actual God creature cards. Have you even read the post you are quoting?
Yes, yes I have, and those creatures are Enchantments with the Sub-Type of God. They work very much like other enchantments we have seen in the past, they just happen to also have gained sentience somewhere along the way and are a little more hardy than most of the creatures in the multiverse. Oketra might give you the warm fuzzies when she walks by, but she will still get run over by a Darksteel Colossus on it's way to get a slurpy.
Just because they have the God Sub-Type does not mean they are all knowing, all powerful, Omni-potent creatures, which is the point I was making in the first place, this is Magic the Gathering we spent a decade getting it hammered into our skulls that just because it gets called a god, it doesn't actually mean it is one.
Yeah seriously. It seems like people are defaulting to the gods need to be Judeo-Christian god level power. But they certainly don't. And beyond that they don't even need to be of similar power levels across the multiverse. It seems clear to me that the Amonkhet gods are intended to be much weaker than the Theros gods. Still well beyond the average mortals but they're certainly not meant to be anywhere near all powerful. And even the Theros gods aren't all powerful.
Xul, can you please stop with this disruptive complaining that serves no purpose but to troll the people in this thread? I'm honestly baffled that the mods haven't stepped in yet.
Anyway.
Does anyone else think the "throwing away three gods would be such a waste" comment is a hint that we are going to see them or what Bolas did to them in Hour of Devastation?
I feel lucky to even get clarification on the mending. And I for one enjoy flavor nuances like Tamiyo's family. As well as recognition that Jace and Liliana's relationship is purposely abusive (mutually). Looking forward to how that plays out, as well as to what capacity the 3 missing gods will play a role in Hour of Devastation.
As for your questions, not a single one of them is actually interesting, and most have answers.
1. Why is a punch equivalent to fighting off?
2. What does elementary school have to do with personality?
3. Because her established power set lined up favorably with the gods mechanic
4. They aren't (or minus foreshadow)
5. They specifically said he was in a rush. A heart beat is a long time when you feel you only have a few dozen left.
6. This a is a basic misunderstanding of facts, come back after you have read the story correctly.
7. Only this forum is "So eager" to kill off any Gatewatch members. Don't push your anti LGBT here.
8. It doesn't matter if a majority don't care about these questions, someone cared enough to submit the question.
They mentioned before that the mending did effect some of the other planes (Ravnica, Lorwyn/Shadowmoor, places with planar portals) so I think the mending causes something on Kaladesh that helped lead to the great aether boom.
I'm guessing from what we seen that the gods aren't fully under Bolas claws and have a degree of being able to act on their own. I think as long as the gatewatch behaved Oketra was able to "protect them" and Hazoret willing to forgive Samut if she promised to keep silent. But when it got to the point when Gatewatch and Samut were clearly fighting and trying to stop the cycle of the trials, the gods (seeming) where willing to let them be killed.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Too bad I didn't actually post it to get in their folder lol.
Ugin, Spring, and Nahiri were capable of killing the eldralz. Ugin refused to in fear that he could upset an ecosystem beyond his understanding, therefore releasing an even greater threat into the multiverse. That's why Ugin was so upset the the gatewatch killed the Titans.
There is a big difference between COULDN'T and WOULDN'T.
They voluntarily went through the the effort to trap and not to kill, which would have been easier.
I do know Ugin wanted to trap and study them, as for Nahiri and Sorin I'm not actually sure. So you could be right.
Well, the world also doesn't have to cater to your dislike of the storyline either. So there. Since the Q&A was answering fan questions, it seems to me that not everyone puts this enormous importance on easily answered or at least explainable "plotholes" (or in some cases opinions of yours).
Let's see here:
1. First of, he is both a planeswalker (which have an immunity against the chaotic blind eternities thanks to the spark, which also extends to beings from the eternities aka the eldrazi (see Spatial Contortion)). Secondly he is indestructible. He didn't hold off Ulamog, he only fought off one tentacle (barely). The whole scene has been severely blown out of proportion anyway.
2. She is a hothead and not very mature. So what? Many people are like this, she didn't have a normal childhood, was far away from her homeworld for a long time and is a channeler of red mana, which is tied to extreme emotions. You might not like this kind of character, but it says nothing about the quality of the story.
3. Yes and the answers to that (including my own) were pretty conclusive about the issue. Instead you seem to have ignored them completely just to moan about the same plotpoint over and over again, when the answer to this "problem" was given to you before. This is not constructive criticism. To summarize: Gods in magic have never been "above it all" and "unchangable by mere mortals". Hell, the Theros gods are dependent on mortal belief and it was shown by Ashiok that with enough time he could be able to manipulate this system to create a god (not to mention Xenagos apotheosis). Nissa is able to manipulate flows of mana/leylines. She observed Bolas changing the gods. She noticed his maniulation in the god himself and tried to do something similar but much more miniscule herself, barely succeeding. There is even more reasoning for why she was able to do this, but I don't want to repeat myself here again.
4. People who feel negatively about something tend to be the loudest and most active in any community, often ignoring or putting down anyone who disagrees with them. Doesn't mean that the majority agrees with them, even if they often believe that to be the case. That's true for the internet as a whole, but I digress...
5. There was nothing contradicting her either. We don't know about it yet since Bolas is just now appearing and we haven't had a story about his POV yet. There could be quite a few reasons why he left behind evidence, including the fact that he is neither omnipotent nor omniscient.
6. Urgh, I don't want to restate my points every time someone brings this up. The gatewatch didn't defeat the Eldrazi titans by themselves, they needed all the work the trio of oldalkers did before them to succeed: The hedron network, Ugin's Insight, the wild mana and sentience of Zendikar and so on and so on. Also Ugin just didn't WANT the eldrazi titans dead. It was explained and was certainly no deus ex machina. Whether you liked it is a whole different story.
7. "Why are you so eager to kill off Gideon so that you can push Chandra x Nissa" were your words. But it doesn't seem like they want to kill of Gideon at the moment and the NissaxChandra relationship was put on ice by Nissa herself for now. And Gideon and Chandra had their moments together too.
8. Can you prove it not to be the case? And even if you were right about that, what makes your questions so important?
You come across as being negative for the sake of negativity.
On your other points. Your post is toxic because you aren't asking questions so much as hurrying accusations. Nearly everyone else is trying to be constructive. Just because an answer has been unsatisfactory to you doesn't mean they haven't answered. People go through 12 or more years of school with out developing those skills, her not having them isn't unbelievable. Also the concept of school as we know it is actually an interesting topic for the multiverse, because from what we know Chandra almost certainly didn't finish elementary school, if she ever attended at all. You had two points "please don't kill gideon" and "random anti-lgbt statement", one is a perfectly reasonable stance that many here (not me) disagree with, the other is unhelpful hate speech, I addressed both. Finally, and this is my main point, you don't have to like everything (I don't) but dont assume that no one was happy with what was given. As I said each of the questions asked has been asked on this forum so someone is interested and happy to have gotten an answer.
Yes, they couldn't defeat them because they didn't have Ugin's Insight. He didn't tell them how to "submerge" the titans into a plane, therefore they both only fought the 3D "shadows" of the Eldrazi before.
I really would have loved some insight on the implications of the Bident theft. And how Arixmethes/Thassa evaded Kiora's magic. Divinity?
Tamiyo's life is a major interest of mine, especially insight into the current state of Kamigawa - but whether her kids are biologically hers seemed implied already. I thought the Nezumi was her only adopted one. Anyway, Tamiyo question good, that one not so much. But at least we know she's not "married"
The questions seemed decent. Not like "how do you guys make a 2/2 flier relevant in the story? Like how do you do that?" I will never forget that moment.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I meant that they couldn't actually hurt the titans because of this. I don't even know whether they fought the "shadows" at all. I think it was implied once that they tried to, but I have no memory off where that came from.
Kelly: "(5-10 words)..."
Alison: "Uh-huh!"
Kelly: "...(5-10 more words)..."
Alison: "Exactly!"
Kelly: "...(5-10 final words)."
Alison: "Haha! Totally!"
This is how I took people wanting to know about Tamiyo kids, they don't, they wanted to know more about Tamiyo as a whole.
Plus besides post-Kaladesh Chandra, Kiora, and Tamiyo are the only planeswalkers we know who have any family still alive and has a positive relationship with them (Narset mother was mentioned but her current statues is unknown as well as Jaces parents last seen when he first went off to train, though he can't remember them).
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
No they are Giant Naturally Occurring Mana-Constructs made of complex Leylines that are called gods. Of every fandom in existence The Magic The Gathering one should understand that being called a god does not make you one.
Because the Oldwalker in Charge did not -want- to kill the Eldrazi because he is a eons old Elder Dragon.
Yeah, because Nahiri and Sorin weren't going about it the right way. Ugin was studying the Eldrazi as Sorin and Nahiri were fighting them.
Gideon, is not dying, one of the Gatewatch are dying anytime soon, and Chandra/Nissa does entirely reek of "Diversity" The pair have zero chemistry and will make Jace/Liliana look like a good relationship. Chandra will trample over Nissa like an elephant.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
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Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
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What differentiates Magic from other fandoms is that we have actual cards with creature types we can refer to when in doubt - Amonkhet-deities are Gods per the card. What we now learn is the nature of Gods on Amonkhet and to an extend in the multiverse in general. The thing Gods so far had in common: Very powerful and that power is tied to the plane (in the case of Theros through the nature of Ny, in the case of Amonkhet through the leylines).
Is Nissa manipulating a god any more outrageous than another neowalker creating a proto-god on Theros? If you are a specialist in manipulating the power a being is based on you should be able to use that specialisation. If the writing was less superficial we might have gotten a better idea about how much effort actually went into this manipulation.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
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We spent the first 15? years of the setting having it thrown in our face that Planeswalkers get mistaken for Gods all the time. Just because it gets called a God does not mean it is an actual divine deity. The closest thing we have come to actual Divinity in the setting are the High Level Kamigawin spirits.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
Those were oldwalkers, though. Y'know, the near-omnipotent beings that made the writing staff create the Time Spiral block so they could get rid off them? I don't Think you can invoke that argument when WotC fundamentally changed the entire setting to prevent it. Neowalkers are supposed to be wizards, very powerful ones at that, but still not "mistaken for Gods" powerful.
(Granted, you could argue that Gideon could be mistaken for a God on some plane, but at that point, the "mistaken for Gods" statement loses any relevancy to the reading audience, because what a tier of power a "God" is supposed to be is so fluid, it might as well be meaningless)
As for the claim about assumption about Gods, well... when terms like "Gods" are being thrown around, most of us probably fill in what being a God entails from other settings or mythology, which in most cases carry with it the expectation that they're the be-all, end-all of their setting. Yes, it's assumptive, but what else are we supposed to do? When you say "God", I'm not going to be able to act like it's a word that I've never heard before and has no prior context.
I will admit that I'm much less upset about Nissa overcoming Kefnet now than when I first read it, but I still feel that it was poorly written, because the Gods-are-made-of-leylines thing felt like it was an ass-pull. Had that fact been established earlier, I think it would have been less controversial.
Going back it seems more like most people's problems with this event stems from their preferred understanding of leylines. And that might be an interesting discussion onto itself, if we can divorce it of the negativity people are associating with this story event.
Also we have twenty actual God creature cards. Have you even read the post you are quoting?
This seems on point. Deities come in many shapes and forms and across cultures have different attributes. And if they are to be represented as cards these have a physical presence as well as a divine presence. On Amonkhet a God is a manifestation of mana that looks after and protects the plane's populace and is revered by them, as well as having a specific field of expertise and insight into the minds of lesser beings to better guide them. There is no power level implied here other than being more capable than an individual person.
You mean like Kiora on Theros?
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
Yes, yes I have, and those creatures are Enchantments with the Sub-Type of God. They work very much like other enchantments we have seen in the past, they just happen to also have gained sentience somewhere along the way and are a little more hardy than most of the creatures in the multiverse. Oketra might give you the warm fuzzies when she walks by, but she will still get run over by a Darksteel Colossus on it's way to get a slurpy.
Just because they have the God Sub-Type does not mean they are all knowing, all powerful, Omni-potent creatures, which is the point I was making in the first place, this is Magic the Gathering we spent a decade getting it hammered into our skulls that just because it gets called a god, it doesn't actually mean it is one.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
Anyway.
Does anyone else think the "throwing away three gods would be such a waste" comment is a hint that we are going to see them or what Bolas did to them in Hour of Devastation?