Does anyone else feel like some of the Gatewatch members talk like teenagers? I understand that Liliana is supposed to be snarky, but I can't realistically see someone that's 200+ years old giving someone the nickname "Beefslab". That "Consulate butt" line felt out of place, too. Even for Chandra. Do we have confirmed ages for these characters?
Yes, especially Chandra and Liliana. I found it galling. The story read like a treatment for a Magic teen-soap CW show pitch. Chandra in particular was terrible. Forgets to bathe? "Come the hell on?"
"Gatewatch" is comic-booky, but fine. Teen Gatewatch...
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Get LEVIATHAN, a novel of half-angel giants fighting prehistoric monsters in the world before the Flood, here, or get the Kindle edition here.
I liked this story, it's funny to see Chandra using language.
Gideon and Jace's scene drives home how each is a good leader in his own right: Gideon is a great battlefield tactician and charismatic hero, the guy you want leading the march for a recruitment campaign, while Jace has the subtlety and tact of a good diplomat, a necessity for his job as Guildpact. They just need to make sure not to vie for client attention in the future and make sure to match each client with the Gatewatch member who'll best connect with them.
I like the direction they're going with the client angle, it's an easy way to lead into subsequent blocks.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
What I liked:
1. The characters jive with their respective color combinations (Chandra and Lilly's big sis little sis relationship being BR, Chandra seeking serenity from Nissa being RG, Jace and Giddeon tag teaming the leadership being UW, giddeon and Nissa training to hone their skills being GW, lili and Jaces past sets up a strong UB feel, etc.) the dynamic fits the color pie.
2. Non-apocalyptic characterization. I like that these characters can grow outside of a world ending scenario. I, personally, find reads like this more intriguing because the character building gets me more deeply immersed in the cards (I like drafting better, I get into the artwork more, quotes are read more often, etc.)
3. Planeswalkers that may not play a huge role being introduced. We don't know if the vedalken will be a large story element or not, but he felt like a plot hook to get the train rolling again. I kinda like that since not everyone is this world shatteringly powerful Mage who can planet hop at will. That's not an interesting character.
What I didn't like:
1. Chandra's way too scatter brained. The "chaos" aspect of red's slice of the color pie was out in full force and it's not a pretty read. She's a grown woman, she needs to be able to form coherent thoughts please.
2. Giddeon can face tank an ulamog tentacle and be fine but nissa can drive him into the ground like a nail? Errr you lost me here creative. I really want more consistency for these types of things. It honestly was pretty silly when you compare the two short stories at how much Nissa's garden elemental was able to affect him.
3. This is the worst offender...they held a public execution (which was announced and garnered a crowd mind you after Chandra WAITED in captivity) for a small child on a plane of supposed relative peace who, for all intents and purposes as far as the populace knows, was publically executed in an explosion of fire. Dovin tells Jace and Giddeon the consul didn't agree to the extreme measure and intervened afterwards. Wtf, it was posted all over the place if a crowd was gathered. They held a public execution and invited the general populace and the government didn't have time to intervene until afterwards? The dude torched an entire village and murdered dozens and the government didn't act until afterwards? I know Chandra hasn't shared her story...but this really needs to be addressed. If Dovin isn't lying then please send creative back to school so they can learn to write a proper story. It's been just over 12 months since her origin story and I'm trying to trust they didn't screw up that bad on her back story.
4. No shirtless Gideon artwork. I want them to bring out the full on bro in Giddeon. I'm talking popped collars, jacked abs and tan like he plays beach volley ball all day. This needs to be a thing if for nothing else the lols. Just think of all the body building jokes and bad Arnold quotes at an FNM... "Get to the [Thopter]!..."
Yeah, I thought Chandra was plenty relatable, Nissa too. I don't really get the issues people have with them, but your average Magic player is probably mostly separated from Gruul colors so that could be it.
Having a non-human feel non-human was nice. He's clearly not someone who is employed for social purposes after all. I don't mind that, even if it was over the top.
Well, obviously not Dovin. We know almost nothing about Saheeli yet, much less whether she'd be interested in joining or not. And the only other confirmed characters thus far are already members.
I agree strongly with both of those. Dovin explicitly says that Chandra was reported dead from the incident at the village, which definitely contradicts the public execution, even though that moment was actually represented on a card and should be pretty canon.
Then again, Hedron Matrix was a card too, and we all know where that went.
Good point. It doesn't seem likely that Dovin could have been lied to either since the execution was supposed to take place in Ghirapur and ended in a huge explosion. Covering that up would be nearly impossible.
It's both interesting and amusing that the two most frequent comments I've seen regarding Chandra's inner monologue are:
1) This is ridiculous, nobody actually talks or acts like this.
2) This is a perfectly accurate depiction of myself.
The problem, for me, is not that no one acts like that. It's that Chandra has never been written that way in the 8 years that she has existed as a character. She felt like a caricature of herself. They all kinda did. You know how Marvel has done Teen Avenger spin-off comics that are lighter and more domestic? It felt like that.
I wonder if Dovin or Saheeli is going to be the villain Planeswalker this time or if it's someone not revealed yet. Given how often there seems to be a villain who gets a card in a block I'm guessing we will get at least one. Only block I can think of off the top of my head where that isn't the case is Tarkir.
I must admit I'm surprised to find myself enjoying this week's story. The sitcom-style plot progression is certainly a winner. And Dovin Baan's facepalm is priceless
I just find it rather odd that the Gatewatch are quick to assume that Lili and Chandra are off to Kaladesh. Now, at least for Chandra we can try to stretch the possibility that she has a reason to go home, considering that while her parents are already dead, she still have some friends (there's one, what's her name again?), but Liliana? Why would she bother? Unless, of course, they jump into conclusion that Chandra borrows Lili to exact revenge on the consul, given that they know nothing about Chandra's past.
Now I'm wondering how Nissa will feel like a fish out of water in Kaladesh (unless Gideon is indeed going with her).
While this is too early, I would suspect, or rather hope, that the line between hero and villain in this block will not be so clear. I don't see anything clearly antagonistic in Dovin for now; he's just far too meticulous for some semi-organized group like the Gatewatch, and his incomplete knowledge about the Nalaars means that it's unlikely that he's involved, or even knows, about the Nalaar-hunting expedition the last time. And if he is right about Kaladesh' magic being governed by the aethers in the air, he's at least not wrong for being cautious about pyromancers who can probably literally set the air on fire.
EDIT:
After reading some of your comments, I think I'd like to address this, even if it doesn't change anything:
"Her parents, unless I greatly miss my guess. Twelve years ago, they compelled their daughter—her name was not recorded—to assist in their smuggling operations. I am not familiar with the details, but the girl escaped custody when she manifested dangerous pyromantic abilities. The Nalaars attempted to hide in the countryside. A manhunt brought them to ground in Bunarat, but during the attempt to take them into custody, the village was set ablaze. All three were reported dead by the officer in charge."
It does appear that the writer may have chosen the wrong words. I agree that this particular wording, to most people, would hint that the incident was covered up, given that in Chandra's origin story, she was to be publicly executed. Nevertheless, it is true that the three were reported dead (probably saying that Chandra exploded when trying to escape execution), and while Baan is a high-ranking minister now, he may not necessarily even be in the cabinet 12 years prior. Notice that Baan never said that all three were reportedly killed in Bunarat.
After reading some of your comments, I think I'd like to address this, even if it doesn't change anything:
"Her parents, unless I greatly miss my guess. Twelve years ago, they compelled their daughter—her name was not recorded—to assist in their smuggling operations. I am not familiar with the details, but the girl escaped custody when she manifested dangerous pyromantic abilities. The Nalaars attempted to hide in the countryside. A manhunt brought them to ground in Bunarat, but during the attempt to take them into custody, the village was set ablaze. All three were reported dead by the officer in charge."
It does appear that the writer may have chosen the wrong words. I agree that this particular wording, to most people, would hint that the incident was covered up, given that in Chandra's origin story, she was to be publicly executed. Nevertheless, it is true that the three were reported dead (probably saying that Chandra exploded when trying to escape execution), and while Baan is a high-ranking minister now, he may not necessarily even be in the cabinet 12 years prior. Notice that Baan never said that all three were reportedly killed in Bunarat.
If Baan doesn't mean that as far as he knows, all three died in Bunarat, he's basically lying through extremely specific wording and a giant omission.
Now Baan is a villain, of course he could lie, but I take issue with this given how bad he is at presenting things in a light that would make the Gatewatch inclined to champion his cause. Why would he suddenly realize he can and should lie now?
This is my issue too, the character just feels very shallow and cookie cutter if he's manipulating the truth this hard. With his attention to detail I highly doubt he wasn't aware of the entire series of events. You had a government official who was able to talk his lower ranking officers into committing this as well. It's not all just on one dude...if it was wrong then someone would have gone to a superior in a UW culture. Besides, if Baan knows a little about something then he seems like the type to know everything about that something. Look at how quickly he assessed the disarray in Jace's house and sanctum...
I'm just saying, if he's not a villain I'm going to be sorely disappointed.
[quote from="ThyLordQ »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-storyline/753571-magic-story-kaladesh-no-spoiler-discussion?comment=65"]So, who, if anyone, do we think is gonna join the Gatewatch this time around?
I fully expect Dovin to end up joining for a few reasons.
1.The team lacks a true gadgeteer genius although Jace did a reasonable impression in BFZ with the hedron network.
2.Tezzeret has a firm spot as the Artifact villian planeswalker
3. His planeswalker profile states that his values align with the gatewatch.
How I see this playing out is that Dovin (probably due to Nissa) will discover an inherent flaw in their Aether harvesting. This will put him at odds with the Consul because change threatens their order and he ends up 'exiled' cause he'll be a wanted criminal. Just a guess based on available info.
Why should Dovin le to the gatewatch when:
1) the gatewatch already declined his request for help;
2) the gatewatch have a possible eye witness to the events?
It is possible that the report about the hunt for the Nalaar family was someway either censored by the government or falsified by the commanding officer in an attempt to turn a massacre into a victory for justice and order.
I agree that it makes no sense for Dovin to lie (since Chandra would immediately contradict him) but how could the consuls have covered everything up? Chandra's execution was a huge public spectacle in the capital city that ended in her (apparently) exploding. Unless there is a lot of mind control being used no one is going to believe she died with her parents. And what government feels the need to cover up their own, legally sanctioned, public executions?
I fully expect Dovin to end up joining for a few reasons.
1.The team lacks a true gadgeteer genius although Jace did a reasonable impression in BFZ with the hedron network.
2.Tezzeret has a firm spot as the Artifact villian planeswalker
3. His planeswalker profile states that his values align with the gatewatch.
How I see this playing out is that Dovin (probably due to Nissa) will discover an inherent flaw in their Aether harvesting. This will put him at odds with the Consul because change threatens their order and he ends up 'exiled' cause he'll be a wanted criminal. Just a guess based on available info.
Interesting theory! The way he was written seems to imply the aligning principles are more about an organization making the rules for everyone else than about keeping people safe, but it could go either way.
So, who, if anyone, do we think is gonna join the Gatewatch this time around?
Unless they're gonna complete the friendly color combinations, I lean more to Saheeli (until we know of her more).
Though no one joining this block would be fine as well, it should not be a requisite every block.
I agree that it's not a pre-requisite, but now that we have the Origins five, I'd personally like to see one new face join before we go a block without it. I agree that with no information, Shaeeli seems a bit more likely a choice.
I think for Saheeli and Dovin, it's going to come down to a "Reveal the Government Corruption" type deal, and we'll see one stay within it, while the other quits and joins the rebellion. Based on what little we know, Dovin seems like the type to stay with the government despite corruption, while Saheeli, if the UR color identity is absolutely confirmed, seems more likely to rebel.
And as for Dovin not knowing about Chandra's execution...it's possible that he didn't live in Ghirapur at the time. And with the government seeming like it does, a failure of that magnitude would not be something on record, nor would it be the kind of thing that people in "respectable" areas would talk about. I don't feel like it's a huge stretch to say Dovin legitimately doesn't know anything other than "There was a Nalaar criminal family at one point. They got burned by pyromancy." Especially since the prevailing narrative of the government is that Pyromancy only leads to self-destruction.
I just couldn't read the story through, so I resorted to scanning for info. Just was not into it. I see what they are setting up, but they did it in such a lackluster way. Most interesting thing was the return of dwarves. That should please some old school dwarf fan boys. I am going to admit that I am going to struggle with the flavor of this plane because of the artsy-fartsy steam-punk vibe. Just a personal distaste and not a judgment of those who are into it. I will hope for some powerful and playable cards in all colors. I grade this as an I for myself since I couldn't even get through all of it.
This was too long. But the parts that I could commit to were a pleasure reading. I've been wanting a set like this, to see, and to read. And if the writing improves I'll be very satisfied.
(Brought me back to the old tinkering on the Weatherlight days)
Card info from this story:
- DWARVES CONFIRMED!!!
- Giants confirmed.
- The matter transporter looks like "the wheel of a consulate cruiser." Cars confirmed!?
This has been a LONG time since the last dwarf... which was what, in Lorwyn/Shadowmoor? Although those dwarves look spooky, while these are more akin to the Invasion/Odyssey/Onslaught block dwarves, i.e., traditional.
Yes, especially Chandra and Liliana. I found it galling. The story read like a treatment for a Magic teen-soap CW show pitch. Chandra in particular was terrible. Forgets to bathe? "Come the hell on?"
"Gatewatch" is comic-booky, but fine. Teen Gatewatch...
"YOU ARE A PLANESWALKER," so let me draw you as one. Check out my art-for-cards trade thread here: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/trading-post/details/1564-you-are-a-planeswalker-and-i-will-draw-you-as
Gideon and Jace's scene drives home how each is a good leader in his own right: Gideon is a great battlefield tactician and charismatic hero, the guy you want leading the march for a recruitment campaign, while Jace has the subtlety and tact of a good diplomat, a necessity for his job as Guildpact. They just need to make sure not to vie for client attention in the future and make sure to match each client with the Gatewatch member who'll best connect with them.
I like the direction they're going with the client angle, it's an easy way to lead into subsequent blocks.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
1. The characters jive with their respective color combinations (Chandra and Lilly's big sis little sis relationship being BR, Chandra seeking serenity from Nissa being RG, Jace and Giddeon tag teaming the leadership being UW, giddeon and Nissa training to hone their skills being GW, lili and Jaces past sets up a strong UB feel, etc.) the dynamic fits the color pie.
2. Non-apocalyptic characterization. I like that these characters can grow outside of a world ending scenario. I, personally, find reads like this more intriguing because the character building gets me more deeply immersed in the cards (I like drafting better, I get into the artwork more, quotes are read more often, etc.)
3. Planeswalkers that may not play a huge role being introduced. We don't know if the vedalken will be a large story element or not, but he felt like a plot hook to get the train rolling again. I kinda like that since not everyone is this world shatteringly powerful Mage who can planet hop at will. That's not an interesting character.
What I didn't like:
1. Chandra's way too scatter brained. The "chaos" aspect of red's slice of the color pie was out in full force and it's not a pretty read. She's a grown woman, she needs to be able to form coherent thoughts please.
2. Giddeon can face tank an ulamog tentacle and be fine but nissa can drive him into the ground like a nail? Errr you lost me here creative. I really want more consistency for these types of things. It honestly was pretty silly when you compare the two short stories at how much Nissa's garden elemental was able to affect him.
3. This is the worst offender...they held a public execution (which was announced and garnered a crowd mind you after Chandra WAITED in captivity) for a small child on a plane of supposed relative peace who, for all intents and purposes as far as the populace knows, was publically executed in an explosion of fire. Dovin tells Jace and Giddeon the consul didn't agree to the extreme measure and intervened afterwards. Wtf, it was posted all over the place if a crowd was gathered. They held a public execution and invited the general populace and the government didn't have time to intervene until afterwards? The dude torched an entire village and murdered dozens and the government didn't act until afterwards? I know Chandra hasn't shared her story...but this really needs to be addressed. If Dovin isn't lying then please send creative back to school so they can learn to write a proper story. It's been just over 12 months since her origin story and I'm trying to trust they didn't screw up that bad on her back story.
4. No shirtless Gideon artwork. I want them to bring out the full on bro in Giddeon. I'm talking popped collars, jacked abs and tan like he plays beach volley ball all day. This needs to be a thing if for nothing else the lols. Just think of all the body building jokes and bad Arnold quotes at an FNM... "Get to the [Thopter]!..."
1) This is ridiculous, nobody actually talks or acts like this.
2) This is a perfectly accurate depiction of myself.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
Good point. It doesn't seem likely that Dovin could have been lied to either since the execution was supposed to take place in Ghirapur and ended in a huge explosion. Covering that up would be nearly impossible.
The problem, for me, is not that no one acts like that. It's that Chandra has never been written that way in the 8 years that she has existed as a character. She felt like a caricature of herself. They all kinda did. You know how Marvel has done Teen Avenger spin-off comics that are lighter and more domestic? It felt like that.
Unless they're gonna complete the friendly color combinations, I lean more to Saheeli (until we know of her more).
Though no one joining this block would be fine as well, it should not be a requisite every block.
Serra Stan - Angel Enthusiast - Garruk and Tyvar thirsty follower - Flavor and Art Enthusiast
I just find it rather odd that the Gatewatch are quick to assume that Lili and Chandra are off to Kaladesh. Now, at least for Chandra we can try to stretch the possibility that she has a reason to go home, considering that while her parents are already dead, she still have some friends (there's one, what's her name again?), but Liliana? Why would she bother? Unless, of course, they jump into conclusion that Chandra borrows Lili to exact revenge on the consul, given that they know nothing about Chandra's past.
Now I'm wondering how Nissa will feel like a fish out of water in Kaladesh (unless Gideon is indeed going with her).
While this is too early, I would suspect, or rather hope, that the line between hero and villain in this block will not be so clear. I don't see anything clearly antagonistic in Dovin for now; he's just far too meticulous for some semi-organized group like the Gatewatch, and his incomplete knowledge about the Nalaars means that it's unlikely that he's involved, or even knows, about the Nalaar-hunting expedition the last time. And if he is right about Kaladesh' magic being governed by the aethers in the air, he's at least not wrong for being cautious about pyromancers who can probably literally set the air on fire.
EDIT:
After reading some of your comments, I think I'd like to address this, even if it doesn't change anything:
It does appear that the writer may have chosen the wrong words. I agree that this particular wording, to most people, would hint that the incident was covered up, given that in Chandra's origin story, she was to be publicly executed. Nevertheless, it is true that the three were reported dead (probably saying that Chandra exploded when trying to escape execution), and while Baan is a high-ranking minister now, he may not necessarily even be in the cabinet 12 years prior. Notice that Baan never said that all three were reportedly killed in Bunarat.
This is my issue too, the character just feels very shallow and cookie cutter if he's manipulating the truth this hard. With his attention to detail I highly doubt he wasn't aware of the entire series of events. You had a government official who was able to talk his lower ranking officers into committing this as well. It's not all just on one dude...if it was wrong then someone would have gone to a superior in a UW culture. Besides, if Baan knows a little about something then he seems like the type to know everything about that something. Look at how quickly he assessed the disarray in Jace's house and sanctum...
I'm just saying, if he's not a villain I'm going to be sorely disappointed.
I fully expect Dovin to end up joining for a few reasons.
1.The team lacks a true gadgeteer genius although Jace did a reasonable impression in BFZ with the hedron network.
2.Tezzeret has a firm spot as the Artifact villian planeswalker
3. His planeswalker profile states that his values align with the gatewatch.
How I see this playing out is that Dovin (probably due to Nissa) will discover an inherent flaw in their Aether harvesting. This will put him at odds with the Consul because change threatens their order and he ends up 'exiled' cause he'll be a wanted criminal. Just a guess based on available info.
I agree that it makes no sense for Dovin to lie (since Chandra would immediately contradict him) but how could the consuls have covered everything up? Chandra's execution was a huge public spectacle in the capital city that ended in her (apparently) exploding. Unless there is a lot of mind control being used no one is going to believe she died with her parents. And what government feels the need to cover up their own, legally sanctioned, public executions?
I think the author here just made a mistake.
Interesting theory! The way he was written seems to imply the aligning principles are more about an organization making the rules for everyone else than about keeping people safe, but it could go either way.
I agree that it's not a pre-requisite, but now that we have the Origins five, I'd personally like to see one new face join before we go a block without it. I agree that with no information, Shaeeli seems a bit more likely a choice.
I think for Saheeli and Dovin, it's going to come down to a "Reveal the Government Corruption" type deal, and we'll see one stay within it, while the other quits and joins the rebellion. Based on what little we know, Dovin seems like the type to stay with the government despite corruption, while Saheeli, if the UR color identity is absolutely confirmed, seems more likely to rebel.
And as for Dovin not knowing about Chandra's execution...it's possible that he didn't live in Ghirapur at the time. And with the government seeming like it does, a failure of that magnitude would not be something on record, nor would it be the kind of thing that people in "respectable" areas would talk about. I don't feel like it's a huge stretch to say Dovin legitimately doesn't know anything other than "There was a Nalaar criminal family at one point. They got burned by pyromancy." Especially since the prevailing narrative of the government is that Pyromancy only leads to self-destruction.
(Brought me back to the old tinkering on the Weatherlight days)
- DWARVES CONFIRMED!!!
- Giants confirmed.
- The matter transporter looks like "the wheel of a consulate cruiser." Cars confirmed!?
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
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