Semi-serious thread after Liliana refered to him as "the eye-candy" in the last story. Do we really know anything about Gideon as a character beyond him being really determined and honorable and that Jace and Liliana frequently describe him in glowing terms?
Honestly, I find him even more shallow as a character than Nissa, and I don't really like Nissa that much to begin with, but at least she has agency. Gideon is mostly just plot made flesh. Need a battle on Zendikar? Use Gideon. Need a character to stand in the way of Ulamog? Here, have a Gideon. Need a character whipping his sural back and forth? I think I might have a Gideon lying around here somewhere. All of his roles could be filled by a random NPC.
I think there are hints of potential with him, but at this stage he hasn't gotten enough focus to really advance much. Maybe a Return to Theros is on the horizon to bolster him some.
Read The Purifying Fire, where Gideon is a legitimately enjoyable character. Everything else after that has him as this weirdly impuslive Superman, a far cry from the more pragmatic, snarky character he was in TPF.
Nissa got fleshed out a little bit in today's UNcharted realms, but honestly I think only jace and Tamiyo are fleshed out characters, Liliana and Chandra are nice, but they seem a little too one dimensional in some stories. Today Chandra basically only said, me want burninate. Other days they are nice characters. Gideon is correctly identified as barely above a zombie by Liliana, but in EVERY STORY HE IS IN.
Gideon is quite the hunk, agreed. Unfortunately there's not more to his character than righteousness, which is a total bore. I'd like to see him facing an inner conflict, where he'd have to choose something over something, and that trauma haunting him later on, or some other more meaningful ways to get some depth in... meaning, I haven't completely given him up yet.
Gideon is quite the hunk, agreed. Unfortunately there's not more to his character than righteousness, which is a total bore. I'd like to see him facing an inner conflict, where he'd have to choose something over something, and that trauma haunting him later on, or some other more meaningful ways to get some depth in... meaning, I haven't completely given him up yet.
I have to admit that he has been out of characterization focus as of late, but I think people are underestimating him just because of that. The Purifying Fire has already been mentioned, but he also had more nuance in Rise of the Eldrazi (where he had to make the decision to leave Zendikar after witnessing Emrakul), Gatecrash and Pre-BFZ (where the negative aspects of his constant nobility started to show) and Origins had a pretty comeplling backstory for him in my opinion, which explains his motivations pretty well. He has a trauma, the story team just has decided not to let him dwell on it too much. In my opinion he tries to flee the death of his friends (which was his fault after all) by constantly trying to rescue others, which is a kind of coping mechanism. I'm sure that he will get his chance to get more complex characterization again too.
I though today's little glimpse into his psyche was tantalizing. His Emrakul-vision of Erebos suggested that there's much hidden in him, and that he's motivated by something deeper that he tries to conceal from himself and dress up with noble pretentions. It was just a glimpse, but it was a good one and piqued my interest.
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"I'd rather die speaking the truth than live a lie." --Gix, to Yawgmoth (pre-Phyrexia)
I though today's little glimpse into his psyche was tantalizing. His Emrakul-vision of Erebos suggested that there's much hidden in him, and that he's motivated by something deeper that he tries to conceal from himself and dress up with noble pretentions. It was just a glimpse, but it was a good one and piqued my interest.
Erebos and the loss of the irregulars does give Gideon an interesting level of dimension. I wonder if he will return to Theros when we wind up back there, and if he'll want the Gatewatch to pursue Kiora and the Bident and relive her of it, just like Lillana and her Chain Veil. We've seen Kiora wield that weapon very callously, and it's just too powerful to let her keep it IMO. The thing could end coastal life with how Kiora throws around entire seas with it as she did on Zendikar. In the hands of one god on one plane is different from a traveling mage going ocean to ocean with the thing.
Can we please get some shirtless Gideon though. And a little waist? I like my men objectified and I am not even playing.
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Gideon is quite the hunk, agreed. Unfortunately there's not more to his character than righteousness, which is a total bore. I'd like to see him facing an inner conflict, where he'd have to choose something over something, and that trauma haunting him later on, or some other more meaningful ways to get some depth in... meaning, I haven't completely given him up yet.
Gideon can go right ahead and get some depth in Jace IMO, wouldn't mind seeing some of that
Compelling!
I find it difficult in life trying to live my life morally, in a way true to my religious values and acceptable to my society. Nowadays finding that gap widening between my religious convictions and what is socially acceptable or politically correct. I enjoy seeing a character ago is also determined in doing the right thing but often finds it difficult to know what that is. This will be more evident I believe in Ksledesh.
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Wizards. listen. The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
I though today's little glimpse into his psyche was tantalizing. His Emrakul-vision of Erebos suggested that there's much hidden in him, and that he's motivated by something deeper that he tries to conceal from himself and dress up with noble pretentions. It was just a glimpse, but it was a good one and piqued my interest.
Honesty this the one reason I think Gideon has any depth. As much as I love play white and am white aligned, Gideon is as boring as the 3 inches of mud that almost killed him. And while I get writing do goody characters is hard to do, Ajani and Elspeth imo did it better. However, seeing that what really motivates him isn't to protect others but something else.
I wonder if he will return to Theros when we wind up back there, and if he'll want the Gatewatch to pursue Kiora and the Bident and relive her of it, just like Lillana and her Chain Veil. We've seen Kiora wield that weapon very callously, and it's just too powerful to let her keep it IMO. The thing could end coastal life with how Kiora throws around entire seas with it as she did on Zendikar. In the hands of one god on one plane is different from a traveling mage going ocean to ocean with the thing.
Who know what Kiora will be doing. After the titans where burned she seemed very lost and shaken idk if she would be using the bident much. Re-reading the moment they met Gideon doesn't seem that upset that Kiora has the bident...if he even realizes she had stolen it....
Also didn't the bident lose a lot of power after it was taken out of Theros?
Can we please get some shirtless Gideon though.
Yeah, especially since he is the only really good-looking male human walker.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I though today's little glimpse into his psyche was tantalizing. His Emrakul-vision of Erebos suggested that there's much hidden in him, and that he's motivated by something deeper that he tries to conceal from himself and dress up with noble pretentions. It was just a glimpse, but it was a good one and piqued my interest.
Honesty this the one reason I think Gideon has any depth. As much as I love play white and am white aligned, Gideon is as boring as the 3 inches of mud that almost killed him. And while I get writing do goody characters is hard to do, Ajani and Elspeth imo did it better. However, seeing that what really motivates him isn't to protect others but something else.
I wonder if he will return to Theros when we wind up back there, and if he'll want the Gatewatch to pursue Kiora and the Bident and relive her of it, just like Lillana and her Chain Veil. We've seen Kiora wield that weapon very callously, and it's just too powerful to let her keep it IMO. The thing could end coastal life with how Kiora throws around entire seas with it as she did on Zendikar. In the hands of one god on one plane is different from a traveling mage going ocean to ocean with the thing.
Who know what Kiora will be doing. After the titans where burned she seemed very lost and shaken idk if she would be using the bident much. Re-reading the moment they met Gideon doesn't seem that upset that Kiora has the bident...if he even realizes she had stolen it....
Also didn't the bident lose a lot of power after it was taken out of Theros?
Can we please get some shirtless Gideon though.
Yeah, especially since he is the only really good-looking male human walker.
Jace is attractive too, as was Venser IMO. The Bident seems just as lively as ever. The description which said the Bident lost power also claimed Kiora fought toe-to-toe with Thassa when in reality Kiora lost horribly. I think that was the short hand way of saying the Bident was no longer an Enchantment as it lost the Nyx star field. Also, Thassa actually knows all the Bident's capabilities, whereas Kiora openly admits to herself she has much to learn about it, and Jace exposes her for that, too. Gideon does mention he has a few questions for Kiora before Jori En arrives at Sea Gate to tell them all that Ulamog is arriving.
There is hints of a very tragic character, but they rarely delve into his psyche. I enjoyed the Origins story leading into BFZ where he goes solo for weeks dealing with Ravnica and Zendikar. He is someone who feels intense guilt over his previous leadership, so he goes alone so as to not put anyone else in danger. He is a different White character than the typical teamwork guy, or at least he should be in my opinion.
I think there's far more to Gideon than meets the eye. I think he tends to put up a stoic (read: boring) front, because being a charismatic leader was what got his friends all toasted by Erebos, something he's clearly not over if his thoughts during OGW and today's story count for anything. He prefers a more subtle route. I think its certainly something that can be explored, but they haven't gotten to it yet.
Not every person needs to be an overly complex character. There's plenty of people in real life that are simple minded- not that they're stupid, but their motivations are pretty cut and dry. Chandra's such a person- she's sarcastic, stubborn, and her answer to every problem has always been "Fire Logic". Some people are just like that.
Keep in mind that the Shadows over Innistrad story was not Gideons. Nor was it Chandra's or Nissa's. They were along for the ride as members of the Gatewatch, and fulfilled their utilitarian roles, but the plot didn't demand them beyond any of that. The focus was Jace and Liliana as the primary protaganists, Sorin as a deuteragonist in his battle with Nahiri, with Tamiyo the main supporting character. Those were the ones that got the focus and the characterization.
Kaladesh is next, and if you read the previews at the back of the Innistrad art book, the Gatewatch will be there. Obviously this is going to be Chandra's story- she's coming home, a fully grown Planeswalker, and about to run into some demons from her past. Ideally, she's going to run into a problem that she just won't be able to burn away, but one that she'll have to solve on her own.
They dropped the ball with Nissa in Zendikar, taking away her most compelling characteristics (her racism, mostly), turning her into a strict nature hippy. Unfortunately, there wasn't time to really give anything back on Innistrad, nor will there be in Kaladesh (although druid elf being freaked out by mechanical wonderland makes for amusing thought). Ultiamtely, I think we'll have to wait to really get a chance to flesh out Nissa again.
All in all, we're getting what amounts to a chapter in a book once per week (for free, so I'm assuming the writing budget isn't top class here), and each set has about 12 weeks to cover all the bases, using a myriad of authors. Its understandable that somethings just don't pan out in the narration.
Heheh, I've always thought that Gideon might have eyes only for Chandra
I have always seen Gideon as asexual as he seemed to not engage in any kind of flirt. To this point I agree though, giving him the chance to favour at least anyone would add to some depth. Preferably someone who has different ideals than himself, leaving him questioning his own morals.
Why not Liliana? The art on Collective Effort and Deploy the Gatewatch were quite amusing in themselves. Plus the Jace-Liliana background would make a spacy romance triangle. ;>
Why not Liliana? The art on Collective Effort and Deploy the Gatewatch were quite amusing in themselves. Plus the Jace-Liliana background would make a spacy romance triangle. ;>
Yeah, I'm team #Gidiana now!!!
Hah! I can see Lili flirting with Gideon and teasing him just because of how uncomfortable it would make him. That seems like *exactly* the kind of game Lili would play to achieve some kind of power over him. And with Jace already in her sway and Chandra more naturally willing to go along with her anyway, manipulating Gideon would also be the perfect way to keep Nissa on edge, feeling like she's the only one who can see through Lili's schemes, but unable to convince the others of quite what she's up to. I hated the idea that Lili would join the Gatewatch as it felt like shoe-horning for the sake of brand, but it actually has great potential to cause internal tensions in the group, and that would make the whole Gatewatch element much more appealing rather than the 'we're all friends!' cheese-fest that it currently feels like.
Back on topic, the latest story and Erebos's pushing of Gideon to admit something he really doesn't want to has definitely added some needed depth to his character. I've tended to like W walkers most, but Gideon has always left me completely cold.
I think Gideon has the most unexplored potential of all the Gatewatch, we already have dangling plots for Jace and Chandra, Nissa, had her whole character arc/awakening in BFZ, and Lili has 3, but until the Erebos thing in the most recent UR we didn't have a lot about him. His origin story was quite good, and the Purifying fire was cool, but other than that nada. We know next to nothing about his time on Bant, as well as if he's been back to Theros since, his current relationship w/ Hixus, and how he feels about the gods. I like the character of Gideon already, he's the incorruptible stoic. But just like Superman and Captain america, it is possible to tell a nuanced and engaging story w/ this kind of character, and I think that is something we'll get in Return to Theros
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
He's about as flat a character as they come and the fact that they won't show him using hieromancy that he spent all those years learning just takes away another dimension.
As for the other aspect I might be biased being heterosexual.
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http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=484979
I have to admit that he has been out of characterization focus as of late, but I think people are underestimating him just because of that. The Purifying Fire has already been mentioned, but he also had more nuance in Rise of the Eldrazi (where he had to make the decision to leave Zendikar after witnessing Emrakul), Gatecrash and Pre-BFZ (where the negative aspects of his constant nobility started to show) and Origins had a pretty comeplling backstory for him in my opinion, which explains his motivations pretty well. He has a trauma, the story team just has decided not to let him dwell on it too much. In my opinion he tries to flee the death of his friends (which was his fault after all) by constantly trying to rescue others, which is a kind of coping mechanism. I'm sure that he will get his chance to get more complex characterization again too.
And well... he is a hunk, no doubt about that.
Can we please get some shirtless Gideon though. And a little waist? I like my men objectified and I am not even playing.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I find it difficult in life trying to live my life morally, in a way true to my religious values and acceptable to my society. Nowadays finding that gap widening between my religious convictions and what is socially acceptable or politically correct. I enjoy seeing a character ago is also determined in doing the right thing but often finds it difficult to know what that is. This will be more evident I believe in Ksledesh.
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
Honesty this the one reason I think Gideon has any depth. As much as I love play white and am white aligned, Gideon is as boring as the 3 inches of mud that almost killed him. And while I get writing do goody characters is hard to do, Ajani and Elspeth imo did it better. However, seeing that what really motivates him isn't to protect others but something else.
Who know what Kiora will be doing. After the titans where burned she seemed very lost and shaken idk if she would be using the bident much. Re-reading the moment they met Gideon doesn't seem that upset that Kiora has the bident...if he even realizes she had stolen it....
Also didn't the bident lose a lot of power after it was taken out of Theros?
Yeah, especially since he is the only really good-looking male human walker.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Fan of Both old and new Slivers (But the new ones are still better anyway)
C Call of Emrakul - G vs R DD: Elves vs. Goblins - W vs B DD: Divine vs. Demonic - WUB Esper Artifice - RGW Aura Dancers
WUBRG Wrath of the Reaper King - WB Men of Faith - B Mercenaries - UB Phyrexian Assault 2.0 - WU Artifacts of Empires
BR Skeleton Warriors - RG Night of The Howlpack - B Bog Murderers - BR Eldrazi Assault - BGU Ulamog's Swarm
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
These aren't mutually exclusive, and it's nice that the characters see the same thing we do as readers.
Not every person needs to be an overly complex character. There's plenty of people in real life that are simple minded- not that they're stupid, but their motivations are pretty cut and dry. Chandra's such a person- she's sarcastic, stubborn, and her answer to every problem has always been "Fire Logic". Some people are just like that.
Keep in mind that the Shadows over Innistrad story was not Gideons. Nor was it Chandra's or Nissa's. They were along for the ride as members of the Gatewatch, and fulfilled their utilitarian roles, but the plot didn't demand them beyond any of that. The focus was Jace and Liliana as the primary protaganists, Sorin as a deuteragonist in his battle with Nahiri, with Tamiyo the main supporting character. Those were the ones that got the focus and the characterization.
Kaladesh is next, and if you read the previews at the back of the Innistrad art book, the Gatewatch will be there. Obviously this is going to be Chandra's story- she's coming home, a fully grown Planeswalker, and about to run into some demons from her past. Ideally, she's going to run into a problem that she just won't be able to burn away, but one that she'll have to solve on her own.
They dropped the ball with Nissa in Zendikar, taking away her most compelling characteristics (her racism, mostly), turning her into a strict nature hippy. Unfortunately, there wasn't time to really give anything back on Innistrad, nor will there be in Kaladesh (although druid elf being freaked out by mechanical wonderland makes for amusing thought). Ultiamtely, I think we'll have to wait to really get a chance to flesh out Nissa again.
All in all, we're getting what amounts to a chapter in a book once per week (for free, so I'm assuming the writing budget isn't top class here), and each set has about 12 weeks to cover all the bases, using a myriad of authors. Its understandable that somethings just don't pan out in the narration.
Why not Liliana? The art on Collective Effort and Deploy the Gatewatch were quite amusing in themselves. Plus the Jace-Liliana background would make a spacy romance triangle. ;>
Yeah, I'm team #Gidiana now!!!
Hah! I can see Lili flirting with Gideon and teasing him just because of how uncomfortable it would make him. That seems like *exactly* the kind of game Lili would play to achieve some kind of power over him. And with Jace already in her sway and Chandra more naturally willing to go along with her anyway, manipulating Gideon would also be the perfect way to keep Nissa on edge, feeling like she's the only one who can see through Lili's schemes, but unable to convince the others of quite what she's up to. I hated the idea that Lili would join the Gatewatch as it felt like shoe-horning for the sake of brand, but it actually has great potential to cause internal tensions in the group, and that would make the whole Gatewatch element much more appealing rather than the 'we're all friends!' cheese-fest that it currently feels like.
Back on topic, the latest story and Erebos's pushing of Gideon to admit something he really doesn't want to has definitely added some needed depth to his character. I've tended to like W walkers most, but Gideon has always left me completely cold.
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
"Hail Bolas."
Click the pic for more info.
I enjoyed him more in The Purifying Fire than most recent stories. He has some good moments though.
He has some interesting potential, I hope we get him returning to Theros one day.
Sure he's in great shape, but not really all that attractive imo. *shrugs* to each their own.
He's about as flat a character as they come and the fact that they won't show him using hieromancy that he spent all those years learning just takes away another dimension.
As for the other aspect I might be biased being heterosexual.