Even if they tried to and failed I would guess it was less a matter of not being powerful enough and just lacking the right tools/skills. If you want to get rid of a creature with Hexproof all the single target destruction spells in the world aren't really going to help with that issue. Grossly simplifying but that basic concept. What the Gatewatch did is likely quite different than what Sorin/Nahiri would have attempted.
What Xeruh said. Let's also not forget that it was mostly Zendikar itself that killed the titans. Nissa and Chandra merely served as the conduit for all the mana. Presumably neither Sorin nor Nahiri could tap into and/or direct all of a plane's mana.
Let us ALSO not forget that they could only do this, because Ugin told Jace the required shape of the glyph to bind the titans. So even if Nahiri could have redirected the ley-lines with her lithomancy and have Sorin cast a powerful life absorption spell (or whatever) they still would not have been able to bind the titans.
Are you making a claim that Nahiri could do something to prevent Nicol Bolas, the most ancient and most powerful planeswalker (if not entity) of all time, from freeing the eldrazi titans?
She would have interferred with Sarkhan, Chandra and Jace when they were messing around in the Eye of Ugin. But could she have stopped Bolas if he showed up personally? We'll never know.
Yes, we know and she couldn't. This is not Sarkhan or Tibalt or Tezzeret. This is Nicol Bolas! This is the guy that, presumably, the entire Gatewatch (with new members) will have to take on at the end(story does seem to play with the idea of Bolas being the ''be all, end all'' final boss).
This is the guy who is as old as timeline itself, who had dueled multiple planeswalkers and who was almost godlike even before his spark ignited. Kruphix even states that by his own admission this current (weakened) Bolas would defeat all of the gods of Theros. He had presumably released the eldrazi titans to act as a distraction. That is how little he cares about beings as dangerous as the eldrazi titans roaming around the multiverse. There is no going around this one. Nicol Bolas would murder her as easily as he would murder any other planeswalker that stood in his way. He is not that type of villain that you can take head on by yourself.
Are you seriously saying Bolas had a motive for releasing the Eldrazi titans? He had a reason for releasing literally the only things in the Multiverse which are an actual threat to him in terms of sheer power? Officially, Bolas had a reason to release them, but as that reason has not been revealed yet, Wizards clearly just had Bolas "mastermind" the whole thing so that way he would look like Loki does in the Marvel movies. There is no good reason for Bolas to release the Titans given what has been said so far. They'll invent a (presumably half-assed and pathetic, though possibly decent or good) reason for him to have them released, but right now there isn't one. Bolas is just the big bogeyman-mastermind who is somehow behind everything despite there not being any reason for him to do/foresee half of what he does. Unless there's something regarding Zendikar or the Eldrazi which can give him more world-breaking power, he cannot have a good reason to release them.
Bolas isn't a good villain, he's just like a Loki/Superman hybrid who somehow is involved in everything because lazy story-writing. And he also isn't omnipotent. He has plenty of defeats and embarrassments (Tetsuo exiling him, almost killed by Leshrac, Ajani messing with his conflux plan, and presumably more). Think about it, there is not a reason to release world-destroying titans when you need said worlds to exist and have power. Letting them loose is just adding 8+ variables into your scheming equations.
Bolas is fallible. He's not just always going to have a near-perfect plan A followed by a perfect plan B followed by a plan C just in case that infinitesimal chance of failure for plan B comes up. Sorry, I just don't get why people think he's some sort of amazing villain or something. Until more story stuff comes along, he's just like the Eldrazi were and the Phyrexians are: a convenient antagonistic force to drive some plot.
We know that Bolas had a motive for releasing the eldrazi. We have been told so, recently by Ugin who doesn't know what it is, so despite you liking the explanation or not there is no ''assuming'' that Bolas had a plan behind it. He did have a plan. Period. What we don't know is what it was but it is presumably to act as a distraction. This is just my guess from how ''amazing'' the Creative has been at foreshadowing things.
There is no good reason for Bolas to release the titans? Well, we can't say that with 100% certainty because we don't know what his goal is. What if his goal was to actually get the titans killed? It would make sense to release them, wouldn't it?
I've never said that Bolas was omnipotent. The term that was used to describe him was ''godlike'' but in mtg that usually means someone with a power to rival oldwalkers. This was also stated in an era where Bolas was an oldwalker.
Bolas was almost defeated by Leshrac. Yes, that is true. Was it an embarrassment? No. They were both oldwalkers at that time. They were godlike near omnipotent entities unlike the planeswalkers of today. Another point and someone please correct me if I am wrong is that Bolas let this happen in order capture Leshrac. You're talking about a planeswalker who is so powerful that he fought a demonic leviathan planeswalker for a month until finally killing it. A demonic leviathan planeswalker. Let that sink in. Ajani summoned the very essence of Bolas to fight him. From what I gather it seems like he summoned an exact copy of him, a clone, to fight the original. In the end it was this...clone that defeated Bolas, a being of almost the same power as the original, not Ajani. Presumably more? There is no presumably more. That is all there is.
No one said that he was an amazing villain. We were just saying how powerful a character he is.
I agree he is powerful, but there is no way he could have anticipated four neowalkers killing what three oldwalkers believed to be unkillable. And if he didn't know that there was a way to kill them post-Mending, it would make far more sense for him to leave them locked up and scheme to prevent the Eye from ever opening.
As a distraction the Eldrazi could make sense, but given that Bolas is a powerful genius, he could easily kill/bribe/bully/imprison/exile any other meddling planeswalker. I know we agree the methods are bad for storytelling, but right now Bolas is just an attempt to make an Avengers' Loki or Dark Knight Joker (in which almost everything conveniently falls into plan A and/or B). Maybe I'm just in an overly critical mode with him, but there has got to be something easier than releasing the Eldrazi.
His power does make sense, but his intellect/schemes are seeming waaay too lackluster.
Been a while since I read the book, but wasn't Bolas toying with Leshrac during that fight? To quote the wiki:
"Leshrac revealed his final card when he ambushed the party by the Madaran rift. Using the mask of Night's Reach, he stripped Jeska of Phage's dark consumption powers and used them to attack Nicol Bolas, who he hoped to defeat and steal his power to become the most powerful being in the Multiverse. After the elder dragon planeswalker returned, he planned to use Jeska to battle the dragon, but the Pardic planeswalker refused, apparently not under control as much as Leshrac thought. Leshrac and Bolas battled both by spells and claw, with Leshrac seemingly gaining the upper hand by paralyzing Bolas between the Talon Gates and temporarily negating his planeswalking powers at first and then began rotting his body off with Phage's powers.
Walking from world to world, Leshrac and Bolas fought and pieces of dragon body fell to each of them (Ravnica, Kamigawa, Mercadia, and Ulgrotha). When they reappeared on Dominaria, Leshrac prepared his final, killing spell.
However, nothing was as it seemed. Seconds before his coming demise, Bolas impaled Leshrac with the skeletal remains of his tail and revealed that he had defeated Night's Reach already and held her original, true mask, far superior to the one that Leshrac had. The dragon instantly regenerated himself and used the original Mask to capture Leshrac within it. Minutes after, Nicol Bolas used the mask imbued with Leshrac's power to close the Madaran rift, effectively ending the Walker of the Night's existence."
I do wonder why Bolas had the Eldrazi released, though. Other than to act as a distraction for Sorin and/or Nahiri, I can't see any reason to release them at all...
Also I stand corrected on the Leshrac statement.
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I don't think it makes sense at this point to speculate on why Bolas released the Eldrazi. For the record, I find it unlikely, that he wanted them killed, simply because how would he know someone would do that. Plus how is having them killed or sealed away for an indetermined amount of time any different?. It would be stupid if we could understand his motivations right now, considering he's this genius mastermind that has all the irons in the fire. We don't know all the details that make his plan make sense.
Unlike the Emrakul mystery, Bolas' plan is not a mystery that is supposed to be solved. I am completely fine with being left in the dark, because that's currently the only thing he has going for him as a scheming villain right now. I just hope that in the end it all makes sense and is sufficiently complex for me to be totally blown away by the stunning relevation and not some stupid "he wants to eat the Eldrazi" plot like in Alara.
Which is just weird, since The Lithomancer implies that Sorin and Nahiri have tried to kill the Eldrazi before Ugin came up with the sealing plan, and failed. I'm starting to suspect that Creatives plans for the Eldrazi changed sometime during the making of BfZ or OGW, without considering how it'd affect the greater narrative.
They had the power, they didn't had the methods.
People focus to much on Chandra burning them, but forgot how made that possible in the first place: Nissa.
Nissa control of the leylines (along with the knowledge given by Jace, that he got from Ugin) was what made possible to draw the REAL titan's body into Zendikar for them to be burned out.
The point is that neither Sorin or Nahiri could bring the titan's real bodies into physical form, so they could kill. It's not a matter of 'how much power', but a matter of 'knowing the right method'.
Now the point that makes sense on the reason that Bolas released the titan's was for them to be killed. Ugin already stated that the titan's death will have consequences. Maybe those consequences is what bolas is looking for (and Bolas himself couldn't kill them, because again, it's not a matter of 'how much power' but about methods)
Which is just weird, since The Lithomancer implies that Sorin and Nahiri have tried to kill the Eldrazi before Ugin came up with the sealing plan, and failed. I'm starting to suspect that Creatives plans for the Eldrazi changed sometime during the making of BfZ or OGW, without considering how it'd affect the greater narrative.
They had the power, they didn't had the methods.
People focus to much on Chandra burning them, but forgot how made that possible in the first place: Nissa.
Nissa control of the leylines (along with the knowledge given by Jace, that he got from Ugin) was what made possible to draw the REAL titan's body into Zendikar for them to be burned out.
The point is that neither Sorin or Nahiri could bring the titan's real bodies into physical form, so they could kill. It's not a matter of 'how much power', but a matter of 'knowing the right method'.
Now the point that makes sense on the reason that Bolas released the titan's was for them to be killed. Ugin already stated that the titan's death will have consequences. Maybe those consequences is what bolas is looking for (and Bolas himself couldn't kill them, because again, it's not a matter of 'how much power' but about methods)
That makes some more sense; thanks!
Now I just want to see what Bolas plot was (or some more Narset/Sarkhan; Tarkir = best Plane).
Yes, we know and she couldn't. This is not Sarkhan or Tibalt or Tezzeret. This is Nicol Bolas! This is the guy that, presumably, the entire Gatewatch (with new members) will have to take on at the end(story does seem to play with the idea of Bolas being the ''be all, end all'' final boss).
This is the guy who is as old as timeline itself, who had dueled multiple planeswalkers and who was almost godlike even before his spark ignited. Kruphix even states that by his own admission this current (weakened) Bolas would defeat all of the gods of Theros. He had presumably released the eldrazi titans to act as a distraction. That is how little he cares about beings as dangerous as the eldrazi titans roaming around the multiverse. There is no going around this one. Nicol Bolas would murder her as easily as he would murder any other planeswalker that stood in his way. He is not that type of villain that you can take head on by yourself.
Are you seriously saying Bolas had a motive for releasing the Eldrazi titans? He had a reason for releasing literally the only things in the Multiverse which are an actual threat to him in terms of sheer power? Officially, Bolas had a reason to release them, but as that reason has not been revealed yet, Wizards clearly just had Bolas "mastermind" the whole thing so that way he would look like Loki does in the Marvel movies. There is no good reason for Bolas to release the Titans given what has been said so far. They'll invent a (presumably half-assed and pathetic, though possibly decent or good) reason for him to have them released, but right now there isn't one. Bolas is just the big bogeyman-mastermind who is somehow behind everything despite there not being any reason for him to do/foresee half of what he does. Unless there's something regarding Zendikar or the Eldrazi which can give him more world-breaking power, he cannot have a good reason to release them.
Bolas isn't a good villain, he's just like a Loki/Superman hybrid who somehow is involved in everything because lazy story-writing. And he also isn't omnipotent. He has plenty of defeats and embarrassments (Tetsuo exiling him, almost killed by Leshrac, Ajani messing with his conflux plan, and presumably more). Think about it, there is not a reason to release world-destroying titans when you need said worlds to exist and have power. Letting them loose is just adding 8+ variables into your scheming equations.
Bolas is fallible. He's not just always going to have a near-perfect plan A followed by a perfect plan B followed by a plan C just in case that infinitesimal chance of failure for plan B comes up. Sorry, I just don't get why people think he's some sort of amazing villain or something. Until more story stuff comes along, he's just like the Eldrazi were and the Phyrexians are: a convenient antagonistic force to drive some plot.
We know that Bolas had a motive for releasing the eldrazi. We have been told so, recently by Ugin who doesn't know what it is, so despite you liking the explanation or not there is no ''assuming'' that Bolas had a plan behind it. He did have a plan. Period. What we don't know is what it was but it is presumably to act as a distraction. This is just my guess from how ''amazing'' the Creative has been at foreshadowing things.
There is no good reason for Bolas to release the titans? Well, we can't say that with 100% certainty because we don't know what his goal is. What if his goal was to actually get the titans killed? It would make sense to release them, wouldn't it?
I've never said that Bolas was omnipotent. The term that was used to describe him was ''godlike'' but in mtg that usually means someone with a power to rival oldwalkers. This was also stated in an era where Bolas was an oldwalker.
Bolas was almost defeated by Leshrac. Yes, that is true. Was it an embarrassment? No. They were both oldwalkers at that time. They were godlike near omnipotent entities unlike the planeswalkers of today. Another point and someone please correct me if I am wrong is that Bolas let this happen in order capture Leshrac. You're talking about a planeswalker who is so powerful that he fought a demonic leviathan planeswalker for a month until finally killing it. A demonic leviathan planeswalker. Let that sink in. Ajani summoned the very essence of Bolas to fight him. From what I gather it seems like he summoned an exact copy of him, a clone, to fight the original. In the end it was this...clone that defeated Bolas, a being of almost the same power as the original, not Ajani. Presumably more? There is no presumably more. That is all there is.
No one said that he was an amazing villain. We were just saying how powerful a character he is.
I agree he is powerful, but there is no way he could have anticipated four neowalkers killing what three oldwalkers believed to be unkillable. And if he didn't know that there was a way to kill them post-Mending, it would make far more sense for him to leave them locked up and scheme to prevent the Eye from ever opening.
As a distraction the Eldrazi could make sense, but given that Bolas is a powerful genius, he could easily kill/bribe/bully/imprison/exile any other meddling planeswalker. I know we agree the methods are bad for storytelling, but right now Bolas is just an attempt to make an Avengers' Loki or Dark Knight Joker (in which almost everything conveniently falls into plan A and/or B). Maybe I'm just in an overly critical mode with him, but there has got to be something easier than releasing the Eldrazi.
His power does make sense, but his intellect/schemes are seeming waaay too lackluster.
Been a while since I read the book, but wasn't Bolas toying with Leshrac during that fight? To quote the wiki:
"Leshrac revealed his final card when he ambushed the party by the Madaran rift. Using the mask of Night's Reach, he stripped Jeska of Phage's dark consumption powers and used them to attack Nicol Bolas, who he hoped to defeat and steal his power to become the most powerful being in the Multiverse. After the elder dragon planeswalker returned, he planned to use Jeska to battle the dragon, but the Pardic planeswalker refused, apparently not under control as much as Leshrac thought. Leshrac and Bolas battled both by spells and claw, with Leshrac seemingly gaining the upper hand by paralyzing Bolas between the Talon Gates and temporarily negating his planeswalking powers at first and then began rotting his body off with Phage's powers.
Walking from world to world, Leshrac and Bolas fought and pieces of dragon body fell to each of them (Ravnica, Kamigawa, Mercadia, and Ulgrotha). When they reappeared on Dominaria, Leshrac prepared his final, killing spell.
However, nothing was as it seemed. Seconds before his coming demise, Bolas impaled Leshrac with the skeletal remains of his tail and revealed that he had defeated Night's Reach already and held her original, true mask, far superior to the one that Leshrac had. The dragon instantly regenerated himself and used the original Mask to capture Leshrac within it. Minutes after, Nicol Bolas used the mask imbued with Leshrac's power to close the Madaran rift, effectively ending the Walker of the Night's existence."
I do wonder why Bolas had the Eldrazi released, though. Other than to act as a distraction for Sorin and/or Nahiri, I can't see any reason to release them at all...
Also I stand corrected on the Leshrac statement.
I think that it is reasonable to assume that Bolas knew that the titans can be killed. He extracted the knowledge of them from Ugin and Ugin knew that the titans can be killed so Bolas probably knew as well.
True, though I am more in Flisch's boat now on not speculating. Also Bolas knowing they can be killed is different than knowing they will be. Killing them was by no means easy. I think for every argument at this point for or against Bolas' scheming is always going to have a counterpoint. So either Creative does indeed have comprehensive overall plan from him, or they have a half-assed one. Or, worst case scenario is they forgot and are going to be like "OH CRAP RETCON!"
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Let us ALSO not forget that they could only do this, because Ugin told Jace the required shape of the glyph to bind the titans. So even if Nahiri could have redirected the ley-lines with her lithomancy and have Sorin cast a powerful life absorption spell (or whatever) they still would not have been able to bind the titans.
I agree he is powerful, but there is no way he could have anticipated four neowalkers killing what three oldwalkers believed to be unkillable. And if he didn't know that there was a way to kill them post-Mending, it would make far more sense for him to leave them locked up and scheme to prevent the Eye from ever opening.
As a distraction the Eldrazi could make sense, but given that Bolas is a powerful genius, he could easily kill/bribe/bully/imprison/exile any other meddling planeswalker. I know we agree the methods are bad for storytelling, but right now Bolas is just an attempt to make an Avengers' Loki or Dark Knight Joker (in which almost everything conveniently falls into plan A and/or B). Maybe I'm just in an overly critical mode with him, but there has got to be something easier than releasing the Eldrazi.
His power does make sense, but his intellect/schemes are seeming waaay too lackluster.
Also I stand corrected on the Leshrac statement.
Unlike the Emrakul mystery, Bolas' plan is not a mystery that is supposed to be solved. I am completely fine with being left in the dark, because that's currently the only thing he has going for him as a scheming villain right now. I just hope that in the end it all makes sense and is sufficiently complex for me to be totally blown away by the stunning relevation and not some stupid "he wants to eat the Eldrazi" plot like in Alara.
People focus to much on Chandra burning them, but forgot how made that possible in the first place: Nissa.
Nissa control of the leylines (along with the knowledge given by Jace, that he got from Ugin) was what made possible to draw the REAL titan's body into Zendikar for them to be burned out.
The point is that neither Sorin or Nahiri could bring the titan's real bodies into physical form, so they could kill. It's not a matter of 'how much power', but a matter of 'knowing the right method'.
Now the point that makes sense on the reason that Bolas released the titan's was for them to be killed. Ugin already stated that the titan's death will have consequences. Maybe those consequences is what bolas is looking for (and Bolas himself couldn't kill them, because again, it's not a matter of 'how much power' but about methods)
That makes some more sense; thanks!
Now I just want to see what Bolas plot was (or some more Narset/Sarkhan; Tarkir = best Plane).
True, though I am more in Flisch's boat now on not speculating. Also Bolas knowing they can be killed is different than knowing they will be. Killing them was by no means easy. I think for every argument at this point for or against Bolas' scheming is always going to have a counterpoint. So either Creative does indeed have comprehensive overall plan from him, or they have a half-assed one. Or, worst case scenario is they forgot and are going to be like "OH CRAP RETCON!"