Did Sorin imprison nahiri in the hellvault, and then travel to zendikar looking for her and ugin? That is when he runs into Nissa, right? But how did he not remember he had imprissoned her in the hellvault?
Could somebody explain? I would apreciate it.
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Presumably it was a retcon of some sort, though I haven't read the Zendikar books so I'm not sure how it was worded. Best guess for it to be accurate yet not too much of a twist is that he was looking to check on the seal, and possibly Ugin, not Nahiri. But also quite probable that they hadn't planned Nahiri out that much back then.
Sorin trapped Nahiri in the Helvault 1000 years ago. He went to Zendikar to try and repair the Eldrazi Prison which Nissa instead finished breakining aproximately two years ago. I too haven't read In the Teeth of Akoum so I don't know if it actually said he was looking for them.
Did Sorin imprison nahiri in the hellvault, and then travel to zendikar looking for her and ugin? That is when he runs into Nissa, right? But how did he not remember he had imprissoned her in the hellvault?
Could somebody explain? I would apreciate it.
If you're basing this off of In the Teeth of Akoum, don't. That novel was extremely soft canon even before the great story realignment. In the current canon, it only exists in the form of its barest bones.
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"You say 'learn from history,' but that does not mean 'learn the same bull***** the people in history learned alongside phrenology and alchemy.'" - The Blinking Spirit
If you're basing this off of In the Teeth of Akoum, by all means do. That novel is hard canon as it explains just how the titans were released. Just because some people don't like the story it doesn't mean that it didn't happen or that it is not canon unless it is specifically mentioned by the Creative as not being canon anymore. The main point of the story is still there: Sorin goes to Zendikar, Nissa releases the eldrazi titans.
Creative has actually said in panels that elements of the novel are no longer canon. Let me see if I can find it. However, the fact that many elements of the book have been ignored in later fiction (Sorin as the Mortifier, Sorin singing his spells, etc) means that broad strokes is the appropriate way of looking at the novel.
At the time In the Teeth of Akoum was written, they didn't even have a name for Nahiri yet, much less the plot where Sorin trapped her in the Helvault mapped out - which likely didn't come about until the third block of BFZ was cut and the story spun off into SOI.
Test of Metal is still canon, but due to the Clockworking shenanigans, it's not clear how much of it happens in our version of the Multiverse. But in an old Ask Brady, he confirmed it was indeed canon, and Tezzeret can still make Etherium. Whether that's true going forward with five years since his last appearance and multiple creative shake-ups? Who knows.
Some elements like the ones that you've mentioned are not canon anymore, but the core of the story still is the same. Sorin did go to Zendikar to reinforce the prison and Nissa did release the eldrazi. This was mentioned in Oath story article if I recall correctly. Some elements have changed, but as the ones mentioned, those seem to be minor elements that don't change the overall story.
The core of the story is the same, it's the details that were retconned. The journey that takes place during In the Teeth of Akoum still happened, but details like Sorin mentioning not knowing why his former partners aren't around isn't. Sorin acts the same way regardless. That's what I mean by 'broad strokes', the core story still happens even if smaller details have changed.
I believe that the new timeline can only be counted starting from Fate Reforged, even outside Tarkir. Disregarding Teeth of Akoum, even in Sorin's Revelation he was disturbed by Nahiri's absence, whereas in Sorin's Restoration he knew where Nahiri was. IMO time travel is convenient for canon retcon.
I believe that the new timeline can only be counted starting from Fate Reforged, even outside Tarkir. Disregarding Teeth of Akoum, even in Sorin's Revelation he was disturbed by Nahiri's absence, whereas in Sorin's Restoration he knew where Nahiri was. IMO time travel is convenient for canon retcon.
Actually, that's not quite what happened. Sorin said:
Quote from Sorin »
Nahiri was gone and her silence disturbed him, but Ugin should have sensed the danger.
I think what he meant by this line is he knew Nahiri was free from the Helvault, and being so protective of Zendikar, he expected her to travel to the plane, and fight the Eldrazi. She did travel to Zendikar, but instead immediately left so she could start screwing up Innistrad. Sorin suspects he knows where she might be, but he chose to track down Ugin instead. He then starts feeling guilty when Ugin grills him about it. It might be a bit of a stretch in some places, but nothing was explicitly ret-conned in either Sorin's Revelation or Sorin's Restoration.
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"You say 'learn from history,' but that does not mean 'learn the same bull***** the people in history learned alongside phrenology and alchemy.'" - The Blinking Spirit
While that line isn't a flat out retcon the phrasing does lead to the thought that he is speaking about when he went to Zendikar and neither Nahiri nor Ugin showed up. He is saying she was gone meaning he didn't know where she was, and that she was silent meaning that there were no traces of her activity. Both parts of that make no sense with the assumed timeline of him talking about Zendikar while she is sealed in the vault. So he is speaking more in the present meaning her silence, sense being freed disturbed him, which would imply that he has 'looked' for her or at least traces of her activity and found none. Which continues to make no sense when in the new timeline he says 'I think I may know where she might be.' Its uncertain if we should bother comparing the timelines, they have said that the temporal stuff on Tarkir didn't effect anything else so its implied the same Sorin, with the same knowledge, should have been at both events. If she was gone and silent why would he have any idea where she was? Which is the main reason I was against the Helvault theory right until it was in an article.
Also the ending of that story really makes it seem like he is going to Zendikar...so what the hell.
While that line isn't a flat out retcon the phrasing does lead to the thought that he is speaking about when he went to Zendikar and neither Nahiri nor Ugin showed up. He is saying she was gone meaning he didn't know where she was, and that she was silent meaning that there were no traces of her activity. Both parts of that make no sense with the assumed timeline of him talking about Zendikar while she is sealed in the vault. So he is speaking more in the present meaning her silence, sense being freed disturbed him, which would imply that he has 'looked' for her or at least traces of her activity and found none. Which continues to make no sense when in the new timeline he says 'I think I may know where she might be.' Its uncertain if we should bother comparing the timelines, they have said that the temporal stuff on Tarkir didn't effect anything else so its implied the same Sorin, with the same knowledge, should have been at both events. If she was gone and silent why would he have any idea where she was? Which is the main reason I was against the Helvault theory right until it was in an article.
Also the ending of that story really makes it seem like he is going to Zendikar...so what the hell.
Sorin was beating around the bush there. How do you think Ugin would've reacted if he spoke the truth?
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While that line isn't a flat out retcon the phrasing does lead to the thought that he is speaking about when he went to Zendikar and neither Nahiri nor Ugin showed up. He is saying she was gone meaning he didn't know where she was, and that she was silent meaning that there were no traces of her activity. Both parts of that make no sense with the assumed timeline of him talking about Zendikar while she is sealed in the vault. So he is speaking more in the present meaning her silence, sense being freed disturbed him, which would imply that he has 'looked' for her or at least traces of her activity and found none. Which continues to make no sense when in the new timeline he says 'I think I may know where she might be.' Its uncertain if we should bother comparing the timelines, they have said that the temporal stuff on Tarkir didn't effect anything else so its implied the same Sorin, with the same knowledge, should have been at both events. If she was gone and silent why would he have any idea where she was? Which is the main reason I was against the Helvault theory right until it was in an article.
Also the ending of that story really makes it seem like he is going to Zendikar...so what the hell.
Sorin was beating around the bush there. How do you think Ugin would've reacted if he spoke the truth?
"You did WHAT?!?!?!?!? Nahiri was the sole planeswalker responsible for watching the Eldrazi prison, and you imprisoned her on Innistrad? You're the reason the titans got free in the first place! You have to be the dumbest, most idiotic vampire in the entire MULTIVERSE!!! You've doomed thousands, if not millions of lives, because you couldn't sit down and have a conversation like a grown-up. Go take me to Nahiri RIGHT NOW, before I vaporize you. Idiot."
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"You say 'learn from history,' but that does not mean 'learn the same bull***** the people in history learned alongside phrenology and alchemy.'" - The Blinking Spirit
The problem isn't his interaction with Ugin, its his self musings in the Khans timeline that is out of alignment. He says she is gone and her silence disturbed him. And in the same breath he comments about Ugin not showing up, which is why it seems he is talking about his visit to Zendikar, when Nahiri is trapped, it makes no sense. So instead he has to be talking about right now which makes the Ugin comment weird but not lore breaking. Then after the time ripple 'fixed' Tarkir, note nothing should have changed for Sorin so he should still know Nahiri is gone and be disturbed by her silence. He tells Ugin he knows where she is(he's being very roundabout but avoiding flat out lying to Ugin), which if the previous part is true then he shouldn't know where she is. Though the end of that story really makes it seem like he is going to Zendikar so why the hell is he on Innistrad.
Like I said its not a hard contradiction just incredibly poorly chosen phrasing, or they had no clue what they were doing and trying to play off old lore while leaving it open ended to not tie them down to anything. Then they retconned the old stuff anyways and we just have a vague statement that should have smoothed the path for a decision made later but instead sounds really awkward unless its a flat out retcon.
This was said a hundred times and it will be said a hundred times more if necessary: Sorin is not the reason that titans are freed! Nicol Bolas is! Even if he didn't seal her the outcome would still be the same!
Er, we have no evidence that Nahiri wouldn't have been able to do anything.
If you prevent firefighters from trying to put out a burning building you can't claim that only the arsonist is at fault by arguing "they might have failed anyway". Zendikar was left without a protector which definitely made it more vulnerable to Bolas' schemes.
This, basically. Ugin is too concerned with the big picture to let petty emotions get the better of him. He could've easily eaten Jace and the Gatewatch when he learned what they did, but he still kept a cool head.
This was said a hundred times and it will be said a hundred times more if necessary: Sorin is not the reason that titans are freed! Nicol Bolas is! Even if he didn't seal her the outcome would still be the same!
Er, we have no evidence that Nahiri wouldn't have been able to do anything.
If you prevent firefighters from trying to put out a burning building you can't claim that only the arsonist is at fault by arguing "they might have failed anyway". Zendikar was left without a protector which definitely made it more vulnerable to Bolas' schemes.
Are you making a claim that Nahiri could do something to prevent Nicol Bolas, the most ancient and most powerful planeswalker (if not entity) of all time, from freeing the eldrazi titans?
She would have interferred with Sarkhan, Chandra and Jace when they were messing around in the Eye of Ugin. But could she have stopped Bolas if he showed up personally? We'll never know.
This was said a hundred times and it will be said a hundred times more if necessary: Sorin is not the reason that titans are freed! Nicol Bolas is! Even if he didn't seal her the outcome would still be the same!
Er, we have no evidence that Nahiri wouldn't have been able to do anything.
If you prevent firefighters from trying to put out a burning building you can't claim that only the arsonist is at fault by arguing "they might have failed anyway". Zendikar was left without a protector which definitely made it more vulnerable to Bolas' schemes.
Are you making a claim that Nahiri could do something to prevent Nicol Bolas, the most ancient and most powerful planeswalker (if not entity) of all time, from freeing the eldrazi titans?
Uh, yeah? It definitely makes Bolas's job harder if there is someone else who knows what's actually going on. Sure the narrative would ensure he succeeds but within the setting itself Nahiri definitely reduces his chances of success. Moreover she makes it vastly more difficult for Bolas to do all this without becoming personally involved.
This was said a hundred times and it will be said a hundred times more if necessary: Sorin is not the reason that titans are freed! Nicol Bolas is! Even if he didn't seal her the outcome would still be the same!
Er, we have no evidence that Nahiri wouldn't have been able to do anything.
If you prevent firefighters from trying to put out a burning building you can't claim that only the arsonist is at fault by arguing "they might have failed anyway". Zendikar was left without a protector which definitely made it more vulnerable to Bolas' schemes.
Are you making a claim that Nahiri could do something to prevent Nicol Bolas, the most ancient and most powerful planeswalker (if not entity) of all time, from freeing the eldrazi titans?
She would have interferred with Sarkhan, Chandra and Jace when they were messing around in the Eye of Ugin. But could she have stopped Bolas if he showed up personally? We'll never know.
Yes, we know and she couldn't. This is not Sarkhan or Tibalt or Tezzeret. This is Nicol Bolas! This is the guy that, presumably, the entire Gatewatch (with new members) will have to take on at the end(story does seem to play with the idea of Bolas being the ''be all, end all'' final boss).
This is the guy who is as old as timeline itself, who had dueled multiple planeswalkers and who was almost godlike even before his spark ignited. Kruphix even states that by his own admission this current (weakened) Bolas would defeat all of the gods of Theros. He had presumably released the eldrazi titans to act as a distraction. That is how little he cares about beings as dangerous as the eldrazi titans roaming around the multiverse. There is no going around this one. Nicol Bolas would murder her as easily as he would murder any other planeswalker that stood in his way. He is not that type of villain that you can take head on by yourself.
Are you seriously saying Bolas had a motive for releasing the Eldrazi titans? He had a reason for releasing literally the only things in the Multiverse which are an actual threat to him in terms of sheer power? Officially, Bolas had a reason to release them, but as that reason has not been revealed yet, Wizards clearly just had Bolas "mastermind" the whole thing so that way he would look like Loki does in the Marvel movies. There is no good reason for Bolas to release the Titans given what has been said so far. They'll invent a (presumably half-assed and pathetic, though possibly decent or good) reason for him to have them released, but right now there isn't one. Bolas is just the big bogeyman-mastermind who is somehow behind everything despite there not being any reason for him to do/foresee half of what he does. Unless there's something regarding Zendikar or the Eldrazi which can give him more world-breaking power, he cannot have a good reason to release them.
Bolas isn't a good villain, he's just like a Loki/Superman hybrid who somehow is involved in everything because lazy story-writing. And he also isn't omnipotent. He has plenty of defeats and embarrassments (Tetsuo exiling him, almost killed by Leshrac, Ajani messing with his conflux plan, and presumably more). Think about it, there is not a reason to release world-destroying titans when you need said worlds to exist and have power. Letting them loose is just adding 8+ variables into your scheming equations.
Bolas is fallible. He's not just always going to have a near-perfect plan A followed by a perfect plan B followed by a plan C just in case that infinitesimal chance of failure for plan B comes up. Sorry, I just don't get why people think he's some sort of amazing villain or something. Until more story stuff comes along, he's just like the Eldrazi were and the Phyrexians are: a convenient antagonistic force to drive some plot.
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While I agree with you that Bolas is a terrible character and villain, he is canonically supposed to be this powerful scheming mastermind with plans within plans within plans within plans. They haven't done a very good job at showing us this. (Infact, they did a terrible job for reasons you already partly outlined.) In the end, we can't really dismiss him as not being powerful, because inlore he is acknowledged as such by other very powerful beings.
As for the Eldrazi being a threat to him: I never bought the explanation that the Eldrazi are a threat to the multiverse as a whole. Even if they would consume an entire plane each day, or three (considering there were three.) they'd still probably never be finished. The Eldrazi are a threat to individual planes, but not to all of them. As for Bolas' pet worlds falling prey to the Eldrazi: I don't think he'd care that much. And if matters come to worse, he surely would find a way to drive them off a world. We have already been shown, that it is possible to at least delay an Eldrazi titan entering a world (Avacyn) and to lure them elsewhere (Nahiri).
While I don't think Ugin would have placed blame on Sorin, I think he would have seen it as monumentally stupid and short-sighted. It being inevitable is kind of moot still because Sorin had no way of knowing that either.
While I agree with you that Bolas is a terrible character and villain, he is canonically supposed to be this powerful scheming mastermind with plans within plans within plans within plans. They haven't done a very good job at showing us this. (Infact, they did a terrible job for reasons you already partly outlined.) In the end, we can't really dismiss him as not being powerful, because inlore he is acknowledged as such by other very powerful beings.
As for the Eldrazi being a threat to him: I never bought the explanation that the Eldrazi are a threat to the multiverse as a whole. Even if they would consume an entire plane each day, or three (considering there were three.) they'd still probably never be finished. The Eldrazi are a threat to individual planes, but not to all of them. As for Bolas' pet worlds falling prey to the Eldrazi: I don't think he'd care that much. And if matters come to worse, he surely would find a way to drive them off a world. We have already been shown, that it is possible to at least delay an Eldrazi titan entering a world (Avacyn) and to lure them elsewhere (Nahiri).
I think a large part of the problem where the Eldrazi are concerned is that they got stomped by the Gatewatch, when Ugin, Sorin and Nahiri could only seal them away. When they released Revelation at the Eye, I expected the story to end with the Gatewatch just barely driving off Ulamog, and then having to try and device some means of resealing it on another plane. But nope, Chandra kills Ulamog AND Kozilek, reducing the Cosmic Horror Eldritch Abominations to jobber status.
It's kind of hard to buy that Bolas would even need these things as a distraction for... whatever he's up to, when the greenhorn neowalkers manage to kill the Eldrazi where three extradimensional wizard-gods couldn't do it - or maybe Ugin, Sorin and Nahiri never even tried?
Been a while since I read the book, but wasn't Bolas toying with Leshrac during that fight? To quote the wiki:
"Leshrac revealed his final card when he ambushed the party by the Madaran rift. Using the mask of Night's Reach, he stripped Jeska of Phage's dark consumption powers and used them to attack Nicol Bolas, who he hoped to defeat and steal his power to become the most powerful being in the Multiverse. After the elder dragon planeswalker returned, he planned to use Jeska to battle the dragon, but the Pardic planeswalker refused, apparently not under control as much as Leshrac thought. Leshrac and Bolas battled both by spells and claw, with Leshrac seemingly gaining the upper hand by paralyzing Bolas between the Talon Gates and temporarily negating his planeswalking powers at first and then began rotting his body off with Phage's powers.
Walking from world to world, Leshrac and Bolas fought and pieces of dragon body fell to each of them (Ravnica, Kamigawa, Mercadia, and Ulgrotha). When they reappeared on Dominaria, Leshrac prepared his final, killing spell.
However, nothing was as it seemed. Seconds before his coming demise, Bolas impaled Leshrac with the skeletal remains of his tail and revealed that he had defeated Night's Reach already and held her original, true mask, far superior to the one that Leshrac had. The dragon instantly regenerated himself and used the original Mask to capture Leshrac within it. Minutes after, Nicol Bolas used the mask imbued with Leshrac's power to close the Madaran rift, effectively ending the Walker of the Night's existence."
I do wonder why Bolas had the Eldrazi released, though. Other than to act as a distraction for Sorin and/or Nahiri, I can't see any reason to release them at all...
While I agree with you that Bolas is a terrible character and villain, he is canonically supposed to be this powerful scheming mastermind with plans within plans within plans within plans. They haven't done a very good job at showing us this. (Infact, they did a terrible job for reasons you already partly outlined.) In the end, we can't really dismiss him as not being powerful, because inlore he is acknowledged as such by other very powerful beings.
As for the Eldrazi being a threat to him: I never bought the explanation that the Eldrazi are a threat to the multiverse as a whole. Even if they would consume an entire plane each day, or three (considering there were three.) they'd still probably never be finished. The Eldrazi are a threat to individual planes, but not to all of them. As for Bolas' pet worlds falling prey to the Eldrazi: I don't think he'd care that much. And if matters come to worse, he surely would find a way to drive them off a world. We have already been shown, that it is possible to at least delay an Eldrazi titan entering a world (Avacyn) and to lure them elsewhere (Nahiri).
I think a large part of the problem where the Eldrazi are concerned is that they got stomped by the Gatewatch, when Ugin, Sorin and Nahiri could only seal them away. When they released Revelation at the Eye, I expected the story to end with the Gatewatch just barely driving off Ulamog, and then having to try and device some means of resealing it on another plane. But nope, Chandra kills Ulamog AND Kozilek, reducing the Cosmic Horror Eldritch Abominations to jobber status.
It's kind of hard to buy that Bolas would even need these things as a distraction for... whatever he's up to, when the greenhorn neowalkers manage to kill the Eldrazi where three extradimensional wizard-gods couldn't do it - or maybe Ugin, Sorin and Nahiri never even tried?
Exactly. They never tried. When Nahir (or Sorin?) asked if the titans couldn't be killed, Ugin says that it may not be possible* and at any rate would be unwise. Ugin wanted to seal the titans away, because he didn't know what kind of purpose they were serving for the multiverse. In this way, if they indeed proved to be irreplaceable, they could just re-release the Eldrazi, whereas the multiverse would be doomed, had they killed them.
Long story short, people really need to stop saying that the Zendikar Trio could not kill the titans. They simply never tried. (Of course, this doesn't mean the gatewatch should have been able to kill the Eldrazi as quickly and unceremeniously as they did, for narrative reasons, but at least it doesn't directly contradict established lore.)
*Since he used a "may", he never outright stated it was impossible.
While I agree with you that Bolas is a terrible character and villain, he is canonically supposed to be this powerful scheming mastermind with plans within plans within plans within plans. They haven't done a very good job at showing us this. (Infact, they did a terrible job for reasons you already partly outlined.) In the end, we can't really dismiss him as not being powerful, because inlore he is acknowledged as such by other very powerful beings.
As for the Eldrazi being a threat to him: I never bought the explanation that the Eldrazi are a threat to the multiverse as a whole. Even if they would consume an entire plane each day, or three (considering there were three.) they'd still probably never be finished. The Eldrazi are a threat to individual planes, but not to all of them. As for Bolas' pet worlds falling prey to the Eldrazi: I don't think he'd care that much. And if matters come to worse, he surely would find a way to drive them off a world. We have already been shown, that it is possible to at least delay an Eldrazi titan entering a world (Avacyn) and to lure them elsewhere (Nahiri).
I think a large part of the problem where the Eldrazi are concerned is that they got stomped by the Gatewatch, when Ugin, Sorin and Nahiri could only seal them away. When they released Revelation at the Eye, I expected the story to end with the Gatewatch just barely driving off Ulamog, and then having to try and device some means of resealing it on another plane. But nope, Chandra kills Ulamog AND Kozilek, reducing the Cosmic Horror Eldritch Abominations to jobber status.
It's kind of hard to buy that Bolas would even need these things as a distraction for... whatever he's up to, when the greenhorn neowalkers manage to kill the Eldrazi where three extradimensional wizard-gods couldn't do it - or maybe Ugin, Sorin and Nahiri never even tried?
Exactly. They never tried. When Nahir (or Sorin?) asked if the titans couldn't be killed, Ugin says that it may not be possible* and at any rate would be unwise. Ugin wanted to seal the titans away, because he didn't know what kind of purpose they were serving for the multiverse. In this way, if they indeed proved to be irreplaceable, they could just re-release the Eldrazi, whereas the multiverse would be doomed, had they killed them.
Long story short, people really need to stop saying that the Zendikar Trio could not kill the titans. They simply never tried. (Of course, this doesn't mean the gatewatch should have been able to kill the Eldrazi as quickly and unceremeniously as they did, for narrative reasons, but at least it doesn't directly contradict established lore.)
*Since he used a "may", he never outright stated it was impossible.
This.
The way the titans were portrayed there should be no doubt that two oldwalkers would slaughter them. They just didn't try.
Which is just weird, since The Lithomancer implies that Sorin and Nahiri have tried to kill the Eldrazi before Ugin came up with the sealing plan, and failed. I'm starting to suspect that Creatives plans for the Eldrazi changed sometime during the making of BfZ or OGW, without considering how it'd affect the greater narrative.
Did Sorin imprison nahiri in the hellvault, and then travel to zendikar looking for her and ugin? That is when he runs into Nissa, right? But how did he not remember he had imprissoned her in the hellvault?
Could somebody explain? I would apreciate it.
If you're basing this off of In the Teeth of Akoum, don't. That novel was extremely soft canon even before the great story realignment. In the current canon, it only exists in the form of its barest bones.
"You say 'learn from history,' but that does not mean 'learn the same bull***** the people in history learned alongside phrenology and alchemy.'" - The Blinking Spirit
At the time In the Teeth of Akoum was written, they didn't even have a name for Nahiri yet, much less the plot where Sorin trapped her in the Helvault mapped out - which likely didn't come about until the third block of BFZ was cut and the story spun off into SOI.
Test of Metal is still canon, but due to the Clockworking shenanigans, it's not clear how much of it happens in our version of the Multiverse. But in an old Ask Brady, he confirmed it was indeed canon, and Tezzeret can still make Etherium. Whether that's true going forward with five years since his last appearance and multiple creative shake-ups? Who knows.
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Actually, that's not quite what happened. Sorin said:
I think what he meant by this line is he knew Nahiri was free from the Helvault, and being so protective of Zendikar, he expected her to travel to the plane, and fight the Eldrazi. She did travel to Zendikar, but instead immediately left so she could start screwing up Innistrad. Sorin suspects he knows where she might be, but he chose to track down Ugin instead. He then starts feeling guilty when Ugin grills him about it. It might be a bit of a stretch in some places, but nothing was explicitly ret-conned in either Sorin's Revelation or Sorin's Restoration.
"You say 'learn from history,' but that does not mean 'learn the same bull***** the people in history learned alongside phrenology and alchemy.'" - The Blinking Spirit
Also the ending of that story really makes it seem like he is going to Zendikar...so what the hell.
Sorin was beating around the bush there. How do you think Ugin would've reacted if he spoke the truth?
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"You did WHAT?!?!?!?!? Nahiri was the sole planeswalker responsible for watching the Eldrazi prison, and you imprisoned her on Innistrad? You're the reason the titans got free in the first place! You have to be the dumbest, most idiotic vampire in the entire MULTIVERSE!!! You've doomed thousands, if not millions of lives, because you couldn't sit down and have a conversation like a grown-up. Go take me to Nahiri RIGHT NOW, before I vaporize you. Idiot."
"You say 'learn from history,' but that does not mean 'learn the same bull***** the people in history learned alongside phrenology and alchemy.'" - The Blinking Spirit
Like I said its not a hard contradiction just incredibly poorly chosen phrasing, or they had no clue what they were doing and trying to play off old lore while leaving it open ended to not tie them down to anything. Then they retconned the old stuff anyways and we just have a vague statement that should have smoothed the path for a decision made later but instead sounds really awkward unless its a flat out retcon.
Er, we have no evidence that Nahiri wouldn't have been able to do anything.
If you prevent firefighters from trying to put out a burning building you can't claim that only the arsonist is at fault by arguing "they might have failed anyway". Zendikar was left without a protector which definitely made it more vulnerable to Bolas' schemes.
Ugin, make the multiverse great again!
She would have interferred with Sarkhan, Chandra and Jace when they were messing around in the Eye of Ugin. But could she have stopped Bolas if he showed up personally? We'll never know.
Uh, yeah? It definitely makes Bolas's job harder if there is someone else who knows what's actually going on. Sure the narrative would ensure he succeeds but within the setting itself Nahiri definitely reduces his chances of success. Moreover she makes it vastly more difficult for Bolas to do all this without becoming personally involved.
Are you seriously saying Bolas had a motive for releasing the Eldrazi titans? He had a reason for releasing literally the only things in the Multiverse which are an actual threat to him in terms of sheer power? Officially, Bolas had a reason to release them, but as that reason has not been revealed yet, Wizards clearly just had Bolas "mastermind" the whole thing so that way he would look like Loki does in the Marvel movies. There is no good reason for Bolas to release the Titans given what has been said so far. They'll invent a (presumably half-assed and pathetic, though possibly decent or good) reason for him to have them released, but right now there isn't one. Bolas is just the big bogeyman-mastermind who is somehow behind everything despite there not being any reason for him to do/foresee half of what he does. Unless there's something regarding Zendikar or the Eldrazi which can give him more world-breaking power, he cannot have a good reason to release them.
Bolas isn't a good villain, he's just like a Loki/Superman hybrid who somehow is involved in everything because lazy story-writing. And he also isn't omnipotent. He has plenty of defeats and embarrassments (Tetsuo exiling him, almost killed by Leshrac, Ajani messing with his conflux plan, and presumably more). Think about it, there is not a reason to release world-destroying titans when you need said worlds to exist and have power. Letting them loose is just adding 8+ variables into your scheming equations.
Bolas is fallible. He's not just always going to have a near-perfect plan A followed by a perfect plan B followed by a plan C just in case that infinitesimal chance of failure for plan B comes up. Sorry, I just don't get why people think he's some sort of amazing villain or something. Until more story stuff comes along, he's just like the Eldrazi were and the Phyrexians are: a convenient antagonistic force to drive some plot.
As for the Eldrazi being a threat to him: I never bought the explanation that the Eldrazi are a threat to the multiverse as a whole. Even if they would consume an entire plane each day, or three (considering there were three.) they'd still probably never be finished. The Eldrazi are a threat to individual planes, but not to all of them. As for Bolas' pet worlds falling prey to the Eldrazi: I don't think he'd care that much. And if matters come to worse, he surely would find a way to drive them off a world. We have already been shown, that it is possible to at least delay an Eldrazi titan entering a world (Avacyn) and to lure them elsewhere (Nahiri).
I think a large part of the problem where the Eldrazi are concerned is that they got stomped by the Gatewatch, when Ugin, Sorin and Nahiri could only seal them away. When they released Revelation at the Eye, I expected the story to end with the Gatewatch just barely driving off Ulamog, and then having to try and device some means of resealing it on another plane. But nope, Chandra kills Ulamog AND Kozilek, reducing the Cosmic Horror Eldritch Abominations to jobber status.
It's kind of hard to buy that Bolas would even need these things as a distraction for... whatever he's up to, when the greenhorn neowalkers manage to kill the Eldrazi where three extradimensional wizard-gods couldn't do it - or maybe Ugin, Sorin and Nahiri never even tried?
Been a while since I read the book, but wasn't Bolas toying with Leshrac during that fight? To quote the wiki:
"Leshrac revealed his final card when he ambushed the party by the Madaran rift. Using the mask of Night's Reach, he stripped Jeska of Phage's dark consumption powers and used them to attack Nicol Bolas, who he hoped to defeat and steal his power to become the most powerful being in the Multiverse. After the elder dragon planeswalker returned, he planned to use Jeska to battle the dragon, but the Pardic planeswalker refused, apparently not under control as much as Leshrac thought. Leshrac and Bolas battled both by spells and claw, with Leshrac seemingly gaining the upper hand by paralyzing Bolas between the Talon Gates and temporarily negating his planeswalking powers at first and then began rotting his body off with Phage's powers.
Walking from world to world, Leshrac and Bolas fought and pieces of dragon body fell to each of them (Ravnica, Kamigawa, Mercadia, and Ulgrotha). When they reappeared on Dominaria, Leshrac prepared his final, killing spell.
However, nothing was as it seemed. Seconds before his coming demise, Bolas impaled Leshrac with the skeletal remains of his tail and revealed that he had defeated Night's Reach already and held her original, true mask, far superior to the one that Leshrac had. The dragon instantly regenerated himself and used the original Mask to capture Leshrac within it. Minutes after, Nicol Bolas used the mask imbued with Leshrac's power to close the Madaran rift, effectively ending the Walker of the Night's existence."
I do wonder why Bolas had the Eldrazi released, though. Other than to act as a distraction for Sorin and/or Nahiri, I can't see any reason to release them at all...
Exactly. They never tried. When Nahir (or Sorin?) asked if the titans couldn't be killed, Ugin says that it may not be possible* and at any rate would be unwise. Ugin wanted to seal the titans away, because he didn't know what kind of purpose they were serving for the multiverse. In this way, if they indeed proved to be irreplaceable, they could just re-release the Eldrazi, whereas the multiverse would be doomed, had they killed them.
Long story short, people really need to stop saying that the Zendikar Trio could not kill the titans. They simply never tried. (Of course, this doesn't mean the gatewatch should have been able to kill the Eldrazi as quickly and unceremeniously as they did, for narrative reasons, but at least it doesn't directly contradict established lore.)
*Since he used a "may", he never outright stated it was impossible.
Which is just weird, since The Lithomancer implies that Sorin and Nahiri have tried to kill the Eldrazi before Ugin came up with the sealing plan, and failed. I'm starting to suspect that Creatives plans for the Eldrazi changed sometime during the making of BfZ or OGW, without considering how it'd affect the greater narrative.