So someone out there has the art book and all we get is this grainy mess? Start scanning or taking more pictures. For Thassa's sake. I can't even read Emrakul's Fall.
Are you serious?
With such amazing gratitude you are displaying, everybody will surely run and scan it immediately for you
:3
Hoped the For Thassa's sake part would imply it was humor.
Anyway, am also upset with no geist!Jenrik. Bleh. At least Tamiyo lives and is a boss.
Cause from what I gather
Nahiri was going to let Emrakul destroy Innistrad sorin watching on until his eventual death because she's nuts now and trips off to who knows (Tarkir)
Jace does nothing
The supposed "last hope" doesn't do much
Gatewatchers do not much but fight monster hordes
TAMIYO saves innistrad
Lily joins the superfriends
Nahiri is redeemed and white instead of being monstrously black because she had a plan, and she at least tried to force Sorin to do the right thing. She failed and in her mind Innistrad is now hopelessly lost, but she tried to do something about the Eldrazi, which is what counts. If Sorin is still alive, there's no way he can be WB anymore. either mono-black or BR.
Yes, she had a plan: watch Innistrad burn and maybe being able to seal Emrakul there, entirely out of spite for Sorin.
The equation of White with "redeemed" or "good" is extremely ridiculous, given that not too long ago we had a White villain motivated by spite (Heliod).
Cause from what I gather
Nahiri was going to let Emrakul destroy Innistrad sorin watching on until his eventual death because she's nuts now and trips off to who knows (Tarkir)
Jace does nothing
The supposed "last hope" doesn't do much
Gatewatchers do not much but fight monster hordes
TAMIYO saves innistrad
Lily joins the superfriends
It sounds like Liliana taps into the power of the Chain Veil to do something, but we're seeing the conclusion and not the actual means so we don't know exactly what she was doing with.
I agree with the poster about feeling very satisfied with this outcome, and the feeling that pretty much how it was handled was correct. I was actually going to make a similar post as a reply in another thread aimed at criticisms that the story was too predictable, and you spelled it out very well-- ecerything makes a lot of senae and thats why we were able to figure it out. I think a lot of people felt robbed at the endof OGW because it felt like something they came out of nowhere with. I actually prefer the notion that Nahiri intended to contain Emrakul in the first place and not just let it run amok among other niggling issues buy those are just details. Best of all, Emrakul is now on a plane well suited to emulate what Eldrazi are all about.
Interested to see if the Kaladesh follow up is about trying to solve the Chain Veil. It seems like the most obvious ploy thread to follow. I wonder how far ahead the general story Notes are planned out now that they're getting closer to a more coherent narrative. Everything since Tarkir it seems they've had a general idea of where they were going with this.
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They didn't care that he was the savior of Fort Keff, the great hunter of Ondu, the champion of Kabira. To them, he was just another piece of flesh, a thing with life to be drained away.
Cause from what I gather
Nahiri was going to let Emrakul destroy Innistrad sorin watching on until his eventual death because she's nuts now and trips off to who knows (Tarkir)
Jace does nothing
The supposed "last hope" doesn't do much
Gatewatchers do not much but fight monster hordes
TAMIYO saves innistrad
Lily joins the superfriends
It sounds like Liliana taps into the power of the Chain Veil to do something, but we're seeing the conclusion and not the actual means so we don't know exactly what she was doing with.
I agree with the poster about feeling very satisfied with this outcome, and the feeling that pretty much how it was handled was correct. I was actually going to make a similar post as a reply in another thread aimed at criticisms that the story was too predictable, and you spelled it out very well-- ecerything makes a lot of senae and thats why we were able to figure it out. I think a lot of people felt robbed at the endof OGW because it felt like something they came out of nowhere with. I actually prefer the notion that Nahiri intended to contain Emrakul in the first place and not just let it run amok among other niggling issues buy those are just details. Best of all, Emrakul is now on a plane well suited to emulate what Eldrazi are all about.
Interested to see if the Kaladesh follow up is about trying to solve the Chain Veil. It seems like the most obvious ploy thread to follow. I wonder how far ahead the general story Notes are planned out now that they're getting closer to a more coherent narrative. Everything since Tarkir it seems they've had a general idea of where they were going with this.
Cause from what I gather
Nahiri was going to let Emrakul destroy Innistrad sorin watching on until his eventual death because she's nuts now and trips off to who knows (Tarkir)
Jace does nothing
The supposed "last hope" doesn't do much
Gatewatchers do not much but fight monster hordes
TAMIYO saves innistrad
Lily joins the superfriends
It sounds like Liliana taps into the power of the Chain Veil to do something, but we're seeing the conclusion and not the actual means so we don't know exactly what she was doing with.
I agree with the poster about feeling very satisfied with this outcome, and the feeling that pretty much how it was handled was correct. I was actually going to make a similar post as a reply in another thread aimed at criticisms that the story was too predictable, and you spelled it out very well-- ecerything makes a lot of senae and thats why we were able to figure it out. I think a lot of people felt robbed at the endof OGW because it felt like something they came out of nowhere with. I actually prefer the notion that Nahiri intended to contain Emrakul in the first place and not just let it run amok among other niggling issues buy those are just details. Best of all, Emrakul is now on a plane well suited to emulate what Eldrazi are all about.
Interested to see if the Kaladesh follow up is about trying to solve the Chain Veil. It seems like the most obvious ploy thread to follow. I wonder how far ahead the general story Notes are planned out now that they're getting closer to a more coherent narrative. Everything since Tarkir it seems they've had a general idea of where they were going with this.
Does make sense but as someone who kind of loves Sorin, I'm sad to see him sealed. I really hope he gets freed soon, I'd totally save my bro Sorin! Haters gonna hate.
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Wizards. listen. The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
I don't think that the sacrifice Nahiri was expecting from Sorin was literal - I feel that it was more of the "you'll have to dedicate yourself to this task or condemn your plane" kind. When he went "this plane is condemned already" she goes "since you're a big jerk, you'll die here, then", which is a very appropriately White thing to do, since Sorin crossed the moral horizon showing that he cared more about his hurt ego than the plane he supposedly cared for.
Now, she's most probably insane. Both Sorin and Nahiri are awful people, but I, for one, am at least somewhat sympathetic to Nahiri. Her character is a bag full of hurt and betrayal, angry, misguided and confused. Sorin's just an egomaniac ********.
While this ending was the only possible way to end the story (considering players, fans and maybe even selling graphs), I think the abuse of the "Gatewatch saves the day" will be terrible. It is indeed just the second time we see them doing something big, and it is probably something much smaller than killing two eldrazi, but I feel like they should lose some battle.
Except the Gatewatch doesn't save the day. From what I can tell, they serve as a distraction at best. And by "they", I mostly just mean Liliana and her army of zombies.
Tamiyo of all people ends up being the big damn hero of the story, which is honestly a little surprising to me. Most people thought it would be either Sorin or Nahiri who sealed Emrakul, or possibly the Gatewatch defeating an Eldrazi Titan for a third time (which I agree would've been very disappointing). I definitely didn't expect Tamiyo to be the one to do it. I like her a lot, but I really thought of her as a secondary character until now. I'm curious exactly how she'll manage to do so, it seems like a feat of that magnitude would be beyond her power unless she uses one of her iron scrolls.
I don't think that the sacrifice Nahiri was expecting from Sorin was literal - I feel that it was more of the "you'll have to dedicate yourself to this task or condemn your plane" kind. When he went "this plane is condemned already" she goes "since you're a big jerk, you'll die here, then", which is a very appropriately White thing to do, since Sorin crossed the moral horizon showing that he cared more about his hurt ego than the plane he supposedly cared for.
Now, she's most probably insane. Both Sorin and Nahiri are awful people, but I, for one, am at least somewhat sympathetic to Nahiri. Her character is a bag full of hurt and betrayal, angry, misguided and confused. Sorin's just an egomaniac ********.
This is a perfect summary of my feelings regarding the two. Thank you.
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"You say 'learn from history,' but that does not mean 'learn the same bull***** the people in history learned alongside phrenology and alchemy.'" - The Blinking Spirit
While this ending was the only possible way to end the story (considering players, fans and maybe even selling graphs), I think the abuse of the "Gatewatch saves the day" will be terrible. It is indeed just the second time we see them doing something big, and it is probably something much smaller than killing two eldrazi, but I feel like they should lose some battle.
Except the Gatewatch doesn't save the day. From what I can tell, they serve as a distraction at best. And by "they", I mostly just mean Liliana and her army of zombies.
Tamiyo of all people ends up being the big damn hero of the story, which is honestly a little surprising to me. Most people thought it would be either Sorin or Nahiri who sealed Emrakul, or possibly the Gatewatch defeating an Eldrazi Titan for a third time (which I agree would've been very disappointing). I definitely didn't expect Tamiyo to be the one to do it. I like her a lot, but I really thought of her as a secondary character until now. I'm curious exactly how she'll manage to do so, it seems like a feat of that magnitude would be beyond her power unless she uses one of her iron scrolls.
Still on the moon is the symbol of Nissa. While some powerful magic (from tamiyo maybe) is needed to enable sealing something in the Silvermoon, because Silvermoon can be modeled and used only with specific kind of magic (not possible for a simple lithomancer for example), Nissa appears to be involved in the sealing. As I don't see how Nissa could be enabling that kind of magic on the Silvermoon. So I still consider it a Gatewatch action.
I think Nissa is involved in the way she was vs Ulamog and Kozilek: tracing the binding sigil that pulls the "true form" of the Eldrazi into physical existence. Then Tamiyo probably uses Serra's scroll to contain Emrakul in the moon the way that the Powerstone absorbed Serra's Realm.
The crazy smile as she planeswalks away makes me wonder if Nahiri may be possessed/ under an influence in some way.
There's the obvious Emrakul & helvault demons possibilities, but then there's also Ob Nixilis who has a pretty major score to settle with her in his mind.
He may dream of bathing in her blood, but he's also shown himself to be remarkably patient and sadistic.
The timeline doesn't really match for this Ob Nixilis theory all too much upon reflection other than him maybe placing a curse on her. Do we know when Ob got hedroned in the face in respect to before or after Nahiri's first visit/ imprisonment? (Edit: DUH! Stupid question lol)
Even if he had no role in it I can imagine he'd get a pretty big kick out of learning what she's become.
While this ending was the only possible way to end the story (considering players, fans and maybe even selling graphs), I think the abuse of the "Gatewatch saves the day" will be terrible. It is indeed just the second time we see them doing something big, and it is probably something much smaller than killing two eldrazi, but I feel like they should lose some battle.
Except the Gatewatch doesn't save the day. From what I can tell, they serve as a distraction at best. And by "they", I mostly just mean Liliana and her army of zombies.
Tamiyo of all people ends up being the big damn hero of the story, which is honestly a little surprising to me. Most people thought it would be either Sorin or Nahiri who sealed Emrakul, or possibly the Gatewatch defeating an Eldrazi Titan for a third time (which I agree would've been very disappointing). I definitely didn't expect Tamiyo to be the one to do it. I like her a lot, but I really thought of her as a secondary character until now. I'm curious exactly how she'll manage to do so, it seems like a feat of that magnitude would be beyond her power unless she uses one of her iron scrolls.
Still on the moon is the symbol of Nissa. While some powerful magic (from tamiyo maybe) is needed to enable sealing something in the Silvermoon, because Silvermoon can be modeled and used only with specific kind of magic (not possible for a simple lithomancer for example), Nissa appears to be involved in the sealing. As I don't see how Nissa could be enabling that kind of magic on the Silvermoon. So I still consider it a Gatewatch action.
I think Nissa is involved in the way she was vs Ulamog and Kozilek: tracing the binding sigil that pulls the "true form" of the Eldrazi into physical existence. Then Tamiyo probably uses Serra's scroll to contain Emrakul in the moon the way that the Powerstone absorbed Serra's Realm.
My guesses anyway
My thoughts exactly. Just because a member of the gatewatch is partly important for the binding to work (because Tamiyo doesn't know the sigil and can certainly not pull off tracing it AND binding Emrakul into the moon) doesn't mean that it's like the ending of OGW all over again.
I think Nissa is involved in the way she was vs Ulamog and Kozilek: tracing the binding sigil that pulls the "true form" of the Eldrazi into physical existence. Then Tamiyo probably uses Serra's scroll to contain Emrakul in the moon the way that the Powerstone absorbed Serra's Realm.
My guesses anyway
Nissa: Give me a few weeks so I can make the trip all the way to the moon and trace a giant glyph all over it's surface.
Gatewatch: Uh, we're kinda in the middle of an Eldrazi apocalypse here.
Nissa: Do you want the tentacle thing in the moon, or not?
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Vorthos Cartography - Check out my completed maps of Zendikar and Innistrad!
"You say 'learn from history,' but that does not mean 'learn the same bull***** the people in history learned alongside phrenology and alchemy.'" - The Blinking Spirit
I think Nissa is involved in the way she was vs Ulamog and Kozilek: tracing the binding sigil that pulls the "true form" of the Eldrazi into physical existence. Then Tamiyo probably uses Serra's scroll to contain Emrakul in the moon the way that the Powerstone absorbed Serra's Realm.
My guesses anyway
Nissa: Give me a few weeks so I can make the trip all the way to the moon and trace a giant glyph all over it's surface.
Gatewatch: Uh, we're kinda in the middle of an Eldrazi apocalypse here.
Nissa: Do you want the tentacle thing in the moon, or not?
Nissa: Give me a few weeks so I can make the trip all the way to the moon and trace a giant glyph all over it's surface.
Gatewatch: Uh, we're kinda in the middle of an Eldrazi apocalypse here.
Tamiyo: Here borrow my magical scope!
Nissa: Traces sigil in the lens of the scope.
Tamiyo: Turns it on
Nahiri is redeemed and white instead of being monstrously black because she had a plan, and she at least tried to force Sorin to do the right thing. She failed and in her mind Innistrad is now hopelessly lost, but she tried to do something about the Eldrazi, which is what counts. If Sorin is still alive, there's no way he can be WB anymore. either mono-black or BR.
Yes, she had a plan: watch Innistrad burn and maybe being able to seal Emrakul there, entirely out of spite for Sorin.
The equation of White with "redeemed" or "good" is extremely ridiculous, given that not too long ago we had a White villain motivated by spite (Heliod).
Again, there was not an option of "let Emrakul go to sleep in the blind eternities forever, and no one will ever die, hooray." So, you really can't count the deaths and destruction against Nahiri, because they were going to happen somewhere anyway. The deaths and destruction, somewhere, is a sunk cost.
She chose the target where she believed there was a chance to do something about Emrakul. Oh, and as a side benefit she also happens to get revenge against Sorin, so yay.
Remember that Tamiyo studies moons, and has studied Innistrad's moon with someone who devoted his life to studying that particular moon whose files and research Tamiyo accessed. You know, before I got cheated out of a card? Bleh I don't want to be a zombie either so not hoping for the Dierk cop out either.
I'm sorry guys. Maybe it's because the images are too small for me to read myself but I'm just not seeing how Nahiri could have had a plan. What could she do with Sorin agreeing to watch over the plane if she somehow had a way to seal Em? Or what did she think Sorin could do? She knows that even as an Oldwalker she and Sorin were unable to take down Ulamog who is supposedly the smallest and weakest of the three. What could she have possibly had in mind? I think her intent was just to make Sorin stay and watch as Innistrad was consumed. Fortunately for Sorin, Lili likes his plane and Jace is not so representative of the MtG community that he can make friends. Nahiri is a bad guy. Sorin is a bad guy. There are four sides to this fight. Team Nahiri, team Sorin, team Tentacular Spectacular and team Actually Trying to Do Some Good. No one should be on Sorin or Nahiris side. The Gatewatch, Tamiyo and Arlinn are the good guys here.
And no, even if she had a plan, Nahiri is not redeemed
Can someone help a guy out as to where it states that Tamiyo saves the day? Kind of figured she could based on her scrolls powers, but how did she do more than Liliana?
It doesn't add much to the established conversation, but I feel both Nahiri and Sorin were written poorly this block. Sorin just was pile driven into the ******** spectrum as justification for Nahiri being the villain, and then they remove his redeeming quality of far-sighted balancing for utter nihilism. His only good characterization came in Avacyn's death when they briefly connected as father-figure and daughter-surrogate, and then Sorin just erased her when he could have struggled to and probably cleansed her mind. Ugh...
And I understand the justification for Nahiri's vengeance, even if I disagree with it, but did the broken/scorned girl trope have to be the way to go? This is my least nuanced gripe, but I'm just saying Arlinn was hunted and possessed by the Spirit of lycanthropy, a heavy burden as well, but she didn't cry about it. She took action to suppress it and eventually champion it. Elspeth battled the Phyrexians who destroyed and ravaged her plane everywhere she could until until she was forced to leave Mirrodin by Koth and later killed. I just feel Nahiri was a case of easiest plot from A to B.
Story is fine, I can live with it and get happy with elements, but I think Sorin and Nahiri were horribly butchered by Creative to justify and mobilize the plot around the Gatewatch. Which still has few characters of interest to me outside of Liliana. Jace, Gideon and Chandra are okay. Hate Nissa.
Vorthos-player with way too much time on his hands and a love of thematic decks.
EDH - Yes, Each One is Named After a Song. I love tying music to my decks.
Nahiri is redeemed and white instead of being monstrously black because she had a plan, and she at least tried to force Sorin to do the right thing. She failed and in her mind Innistrad is now hopelessly lost, but she tried to do something about the Eldrazi, which is what counts. If Sorin is still alive, there's no way he can be WB anymore. either mono-black or BR.
Yes, she had a plan: watch Innistrad burn and maybe being able to seal Emrakul there, entirely out of spite for Sorin.
The equation of White with "redeemed" or "good" is extremely ridiculous, given that not too long ago we had a White villain motivated by spite (Heliod).
Again, there was not an option of "let Emrakul go to sleep in the blind eternities forever, and no one will ever die, hooray." So, you really can't count the deaths and destruction against Nahiri, because they were going to happen somewhere anyway. The deaths and destruction, somewhere, is a sunk cost.
She chose the target where she believed there was a chance to do something about Emrakul. Oh, and as a side benefit she also happens to get revenge against Sorin, so yay.
That kind of implies that she was telling the truth about it too. I could easily see her just saying that and intending to let Emrakul do her thing. I very much doubt that Sorin would need to die to achieve whatever she had planned if she had one anyways, if her plan involved Sorin doing something with the moon I don't see why his death would be needed. I just think she was trying to get one over on him one last time.
And it is sad that Jenrik didn't get a card. Maybe he will show up as a ghost, I'd be alright with that.
And no, even if she had a plan, Nahiri is not redeemed
I do not agree with this at all. Again, the alternative was not "if I do nothing, then Emrakul will just sit in the blind eternities and never harm another plane again." No, SOME plane somewhere is doomed. The deaths and destruction are a sunk cost that is already going to be paid by some world in the future. If you have a plan to deal with Emrakul and you choose the target, the deaths are not on you even if you fail.
I very much doubt that Sorin would need to die to achieve whatever she had planned if she had one anyways, if her plan involved Sorin doing something with the moon I don't see why his death would be needed.
That's taking the whole "sacrifice" thing literally, whereas coming from her comparison (i.e. her sacrifice was being bound to a single plane, deathless and without contact with her peers, for 5 thousand years), I feel what would be required of him would be a similar or equal commitment. "We find a way to bind this thing in your crib, you keep watch this time" kinda deal. One that, obviously, was asking way too much from Sorin.
I do not agree with this at all. Again, the alternative was not "if I do nothing, then Emrakul will just sit in the blind eternities and never harm another plane again." No, SOME plane somewhere is doomed. The deaths and destruction are a sunk cost that is already going to be paid by some world in the future. If you have a plan to deal with Emrakul and you choose the target, the deaths are not on you even if you fail.
Indeed the deaths will happen but the fact that Nahiri chose to point Em somewhere makes her evil regardless of whether or not she had a plan for sealing. Its like the philosophical trolley problem. Deaths are going to happen regardless but if you chose not to act in any way you are not culpable for the deaths. If instead Nahiri had just drawn Em to Innistrad and immediately sealed her then sure all is hunkey dorey. But she didn't. She drew Emrakul to Innistrad first and foremost for her own petty, and let me stress PETTY, revenge. I'll also repeat that there is little sense that Nahiri intended to seal Em to begin with. Oh and let's not forget that Nahiri is the reason for the madness of the angels who slaughtered even more people. No there is no redemption for Nahiri.
The whole "deaths are gonna happen anyway, so Nahiri is not responsible for any deaths by Em" is really, really stupid.
Your argument is suffering for every new point you try to make, Northjayhawk, I'm afraid.
Not to mention you're still just assuming that Nahiri had any sort of goodwill in her revenge plot. There are plenty of cards that highlight her ill intentions, meanwhile. Miss those?
I very much doubt that Sorin would need to die to achieve whatever she had planned if she had one anyways, if her plan involved Sorin doing something with the moon I don't see why his death would be needed.
That's taking the whole "sacrifice" thing literally, whereas coming from her comparison (i.e. her sacrifice was being bound to a single plane, deathless and without contact with her peers, for 5 thousand years), I feel what would be required of him would be a similar or equal commitment. "We find a way to bind this thing in your crib, you keep watch this time" kinda deal. One that, obviously, was asking way too much from Sorin.
I could see that too, but I could see it being literal. We will need to see for sure when the story comes out, might clear up more about what Nahiri wants. If, and this is a big if since we haven't seen much that conclusively states this, her plan was to bind Emrakul to the moon then she's still a horrible individual, just less so than one who would initiate planar genocide out of spite.
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Hoped the For Thassa's sake part would imply it was humor.
Anyway, am also upset with no geist!Jenrik. Bleh. At least Tamiyo lives and is a boss.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Cause from what I gather
Nahiri was going to let Emrakul destroy Innistrad sorin watching on until his eventual death because she's nuts now and trips off to who knows (Tarkir)
Jace does nothing
The supposed "last hope" doesn't do much
Gatewatchers do not much but fight monster hordes
TAMIYO saves innistrad
Lily joins the superfriends
Yes, she had a plan: watch Innistrad burn and maybe being able to seal Emrakul there, entirely out of spite for Sorin.
The equation of White with "redeemed" or "good" is extremely ridiculous, given that not too long ago we had a White villain motivated by spite (Heliod).
It sounds like Liliana taps into the power of the Chain Veil to do something, but we're seeing the conclusion and not the actual means so we don't know exactly what she was doing with.
I agree with the poster about feeling very satisfied with this outcome, and the feeling that pretty much how it was handled was correct. I was actually going to make a similar post as a reply in another thread aimed at criticisms that the story was too predictable, and you spelled it out very well-- ecerything makes a lot of senae and thats why we were able to figure it out. I think a lot of people felt robbed at the endof OGW because it felt like something they came out of nowhere with. I actually prefer the notion that Nahiri intended to contain Emrakul in the first place and not just let it run amok among other niggling issues buy those are just details. Best of all, Emrakul is now on a plane well suited to emulate what Eldrazi are all about.
Interested to see if the Kaladesh follow up is about trying to solve the Chain Veil. It seems like the most obvious ploy thread to follow. I wonder how far ahead the general story Notes are planned out now that they're getting closer to a more coherent narrative. Everything since Tarkir it seems they've had a general idea of where they were going with this.
But the people behind the barrier knew.
This. Nahiri isn't absolved. She's still an awful person. Sorin is too.
Does make sense but as someone who kind of loves Sorin, I'm sad to see him sealed. I really hope he gets freed soon, I'd totally save my bro Sorin! Haters gonna hate.
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
Now, she's most probably insane. Both Sorin and Nahiri are awful people, but I, for one, am at least somewhat sympathetic to Nahiri. Her character is a bag full of hurt and betrayal, angry, misguided and confused. Sorin's just an egomaniac ********.
Except the Gatewatch doesn't save the day. From what I can tell, they serve as a distraction at best. And by "they", I mostly just mean Liliana and her army of zombies.
Tamiyo of all people ends up being the big damn hero of the story, which is honestly a little surprising to me. Most people thought it would be either Sorin or Nahiri who sealed Emrakul, or possibly the Gatewatch defeating an Eldrazi Titan for a third time (which I agree would've been very disappointing). I definitely didn't expect Tamiyo to be the one to do it. I like her a lot, but I really thought of her as a secondary character until now. I'm curious exactly how she'll manage to do so, it seems like a feat of that magnitude would be beyond her power unless she uses one of her iron scrolls.
This is a perfect summary of my feelings regarding the two. Thank you.
"You say 'learn from history,' but that does not mean 'learn the same bull***** the people in history learned alongside phrenology and alchemy.'" - The Blinking Spirit
I think Nissa is involved in the way she was vs Ulamog and Kozilek: tracing the binding sigil that pulls the "true form" of the Eldrazi into physical existence. Then Tamiyo probably uses Serra's scroll to contain Emrakul in the moon the way that the Powerstone absorbed Serra's Realm.
My guesses anyway
There's the obvious Emrakul & helvault demons possibilities, but then there's also Ob Nixilis who has a pretty major score to settle with her in his mind.
He may dream of bathing in her blood, but he's also shown himself to be remarkably patient and sadistic.
The timeline doesn't really match for this Ob Nixilis theory all too much upon reflection other than him maybe placing a curse on her. Do we know when Ob got hedroned in the face in respect to before or after Nahiri's first visit/ imprisonment? (Edit: DUH! Stupid question lol)
Even if he had no role in it I can imagine he'd get a pretty big kick out of learning what she's become.
My thoughts exactly. Just because a member of the gatewatch is partly important for the binding to work (because Tamiyo doesn't know the sigil and can certainly not pull off tracing it AND binding Emrakul into the moon) doesn't mean that it's like the ending of OGW all over again.
Nissa: Give me a few weeks so I can make the trip all the way to the moon and trace a giant glyph all over it's surface.
Gatewatch: Uh, we're kinda in the middle of an Eldrazi apocalypse here.
Nissa: Do you want the tentacle thing in the moon, or not?
"You say 'learn from history,' but that does not mean 'learn the same bull***** the people in history learned alongside phrenology and alchemy.'" - The Blinking Spirit
Nissa: Give me a few weeks so I can make the trip all the way to the moon and trace a giant glyph all over it's surface.
Gatewatch: Uh, we're kinda in the middle of an Eldrazi apocalypse here.
Tamiyo: Here borrow my magical scope!
Nissa: Traces sigil in the lens of the scope.
Tamiyo: Turns it on
*Bat symbol!* nannanananananannaa Batmaaaaan
Again, there was not an option of "let Emrakul go to sleep in the blind eternities forever, and no one will ever die, hooray." So, you really can't count the deaths and destruction against Nahiri, because they were going to happen somewhere anyway. The deaths and destruction, somewhere, is a sunk cost.
She chose the target where she believed there was a chance to do something about Emrakul. Oh, and as a side benefit she also happens to get revenge against Sorin, so yay.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
And no, even if she had a plan, Nahiri is not redeemed
It doesn't add much to the established conversation, but I feel both Nahiri and Sorin were written poorly this block. Sorin just was pile driven into the ******** spectrum as justification for Nahiri being the villain, and then they remove his redeeming quality of far-sighted balancing for utter nihilism. His only good characterization came in Avacyn's death when they briefly connected as father-figure and daughter-surrogate, and then Sorin just erased her when he could have struggled to and probably cleansed her mind. Ugh...
And I understand the justification for Nahiri's vengeance, even if I disagree with it, but did the broken/scorned girl trope have to be the way to go? This is my least nuanced gripe, but I'm just saying Arlinn was hunted and possessed by the Spirit of lycanthropy, a heavy burden as well, but she didn't cry about it. She took action to suppress it and eventually champion it. Elspeth battled the Phyrexians who destroyed and ravaged her plane everywhere she could until until she was forced to leave Mirrodin by Koth and later killed. I just feel Nahiri was a case of easiest plot from A to B.
Story is fine, I can live with it and get happy with elements, but I think Sorin and Nahiri were horribly butchered by Creative to justify and mobilize the plot around the Gatewatch. Which still has few characters of interest to me outside of Liliana. Jace, Gideon and Chandra are okay. Hate Nissa.
EDH - Yes, Each One is Named After a Song. I love tying music to my decks.
B Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief B - Fear of the Dark
WG Sigarda, Heron's Grace WG - Strength in Numbers
RG Xenagos, God of Revels RG - Fullmoon (It's werewolves)
RW Archangel Avacyn // Avacyn, the Purifier RW - The End is Nigh
60 Card Kitchen Table Decks
WUB Avacyn, Spirit Ferrier
RG Arlinn Kord's Howlpack
That kind of implies that she was telling the truth about it too. I could easily see her just saying that and intending to let Emrakul do her thing. I very much doubt that Sorin would need to die to achieve whatever she had planned if she had one anyways, if her plan involved Sorin doing something with the moon I don't see why his death would be needed. I just think she was trying to get one over on him one last time.
And it is sad that Jenrik didn't get a card. Maybe he will show up as a ghost, I'd be alright with that.
I do not agree with this at all. Again, the alternative was not "if I do nothing, then Emrakul will just sit in the blind eternities and never harm another plane again." No, SOME plane somewhere is doomed. The deaths and destruction are a sunk cost that is already going to be paid by some world in the future. If you have a plan to deal with Emrakul and you choose the target, the deaths are not on you even if you fail.
That's taking the whole "sacrifice" thing literally, whereas coming from her comparison (i.e. her sacrifice was being bound to a single plane, deathless and without contact with her peers, for 5 thousand years), I feel what would be required of him would be a similar or equal commitment. "We find a way to bind this thing in your crib, you keep watch this time" kinda deal. One that, obviously, was asking way too much from Sorin.
Indeed the deaths will happen but the fact that Nahiri chose to point Em somewhere makes her evil regardless of whether or not she had a plan for sealing. Its like the philosophical trolley problem. Deaths are going to happen regardless but if you chose not to act in any way you are not culpable for the deaths. If instead Nahiri had just drawn Em to Innistrad and immediately sealed her then sure all is hunkey dorey. But she didn't. She drew Emrakul to Innistrad first and foremost for her own petty, and let me stress PETTY, revenge. I'll also repeat that there is little sense that Nahiri intended to seal Em to begin with. Oh and let's not forget that Nahiri is the reason for the madness of the angels who slaughtered even more people. No there is no redemption for Nahiri.
Your argument is suffering for every new point you try to make, Northjayhawk, I'm afraid.
Not to mention you're still just assuming that Nahiri had any sort of goodwill in her revenge plot. There are plenty of cards that highlight her ill intentions, meanwhile. Miss those?
I could see that too, but I could see it being literal. We will need to see for sure when the story comes out, might clear up more about what Nahiri wants. If, and this is a big if since we haven't seen much that conclusively states this, her plan was to bind Emrakul to the moon then she's still a horrible individual, just less so than one who would initiate planar genocide out of spite.