True, but the issue stems from the fact that the playerbase percieves DTK as being worse than KTK, Wizards intentions be damned. Heck, look at StubbornOne's post further up the page; it defines the new Dragonbroods by what the Clans have lost, not what they have gained. The Clans are diminished by the Dragons, and that makes the story somewhat unsatisfying.
I'm not arguing that DTK is better, just changed. Wizards definitely underestimated how much people would like the clans, and any return to Tarkir is sure to feature their resurgence, as that was a plot hook they left dangling when Narset found the hidden vault.
The thing about Tarkir is that it suffers severely from moral myopia. KTO is supposed to be awful and rectified in DOT. Instead, we get a world where clans and their identities have been subdued by five different flavours of draconic trants whose sole claim to legitimacy is some vague background vital effect in the land arts (and even then, Atarka is stated to be a threat to all wildlife...), yet Creative seems obsessed with parading about how much better it is.
Sarkhan likes it better, but that's really it. I've only seen comments that it's different and a reborn world, not that it's better.
True, but the issue stems from the fact that the playerbase percieves DTK as being worse than KTK, Wizards intentions be damned. Heck, look at StubbornOne's post further up the page; it defines the new Dragonbroods by what the Clans have lost, not what they have gained. The Clans are diminished by the Dragons, and that makes the story somewhat unsatisfying.
I don't think Wizards intention is that the Dragon world is supposed to be better. It's different, Sarkhan likes it more, but neither of those means that Wizards is trying to say it is better. The only statement I recall on it is Maro saying that Sarkhan likes it better, but that it's worse for humans currently.
Arguably every clan is worse off save for the Abzan (As they are now less prone to internecine warfare and plots, no longer practice slavery, and are no longer bound to serve for all eternity as spirits, and serve a legitimately benevolent dragon lord). The Ojutai aren't bad off, and life in that brood is better than life in most places in the multiverse, but the Jeskai were still better off. The Temur are far worse off under Atarka. the Mardu were always a rampaging horde, but and least they had some room to grow and thrive, while under K they have no hope for any sort of stability, its all kill all the time. They are the Rakdos without the fun. Sultai to Silumger is actually a lateral move as I think about it. Its as terrible as it was under khans, except now instead of it being the Naga and Demons, its Dragons running the show. If anything, its a bit less cut throat as nobody wants to rise too high for fear of earning the wrong sort of attention from the dragons.
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Re: Lands having degraded under the Khans rule:
Have you taken a look at the basic land art for DTK? The Sultai palaces are in ruins. Not just overgrown, in literal ruins. The Mardu plains are plagued by rolling thunder clouds, the abzan deserts choked by sandstorms. The Jeskai mountain peaks are frozen over, the waterfalls lost. And the Temur tundra is charred by dragon fire and active volcanoes.
If you really want to use symbolism to explain how one timeline is better than the other, don't just focus on one timeline. Even if the basic land art is legitimately telling us that the plane suffered under the rule of the khans, it similarly shows us that the plane suffered under the rule of the dragons at least as much, if not even more.
The Ojutai aren't bad off, and life in that brood is better than life in most places in the multiverse
Except that non-dragons in Ojutai society have literally no rights? Off the top of my head I can think of a bunch of places in the multiverse where life is better than this.
Re: Lands having degraded under the Khans rule:
Have you taken a look at the basic land art for DTK? The Sultai palaces are in ruins. Not just overgrown, in literal ruins. The Mardu plains are plagued by rolling thunder clouds, the abzan deserts choked by sandstorms. The Jeskai mountain peaks are frozen over, the waterfalls lost. And the Temur tundra is charred by dragon fire and active volcanoes.
If you really want to use symbolism to explain how one timeline is better than the other, don't just focus on one timeline. Even if the basic land art is legitimately telling us that the plane suffered under the rule of the khans, it similarly shows us that the plane suffered under the rule of the dragons at least as much, if not even more.
The Ojutai aren't bad off, and life in that brood is better than life in most places in the multiverse
Except that non-dragons in Ojutai society have literally no rights? Off the top of my head I can think of a bunch of places in the multiverse where life is better than this.
Oh, I'm not arguing that KTK or DTK was better, I'm saying that the lands were the only evidence I saw that KTK was worse off than FRF.
But you're absolutely right, DTK hasn't been an improvement, and actually looks to be even worse, which, as was stated in the State of Design last year, left people feeling disappointed with how things were left.
So yeah, DTK seems to have screwed over the Clans, and Tarkir itself, completely. Although, I'd kind of like to see Narset convince Sarkhan that Tarkir is still broken, and they need to fix it by bringing the Dragons to heel, like they were under Ugin.
Arguably every clan is worse off save for the Abzan (As they are now less prone to internecine warfare and plots, no longer practice slavery, and are no longer bound to serve for all eternity as spirits, and serve a legitimately benevolent dragon lord). The Ojutai aren't bad off, and life in that brood is better than life in most places in the multiverse, but the Jeskai were still better off. The Temur are far worse off under Atarka. the Mardu were always a rampaging horde, but and least they had some room to grow and thrive, while under K they have no hope for any sort of stability, its all kill all the time. They are the Rakdos without the fun. Sultai to Silumger is actually a lateral move as I think about it. Its as terrible as it was under khans, except now instead of it being the Naga and Demons, its Dragons running the show. If anything, its a bit less cut throat as nobody wants to rise too high for fear of earning the wrong sort of attention from the dragons.
The other way around, actually:
- The Ojutai are fanatical, highly dogmatic cultists which are explicitly stated to be a lesser caste to the dragons, to the point that in whatever instance a dragon decides to murder a mortal they get away with it.
- The SIlumgar are fred from the racism of the Sultai (though in practise the dragons are obviously usually above the mortals, if for no other reason than inherent power)
Arguably every clan is worse off save for the Abzan (As they are now less prone to internecine warfare and plots, no longer practice slavery, and are no longer bound to serve for all eternity as spirits, and serve a legitimately benevolent dragon lord). The Ojutai aren't bad off, and life in that brood is better than life in most places in the multiverse, but the Jeskai were still better off. The Temur are far worse off under Atarka. the Mardu were always a rampaging horde, but and least they had some room to grow and thrive, while under K they have no hope for any sort of stability, its all kill all the time. They are the Rakdos without the fun. Sultai to Silumger is actually a lateral move as I think about it. Its as terrible as it was under khans, except now instead of it being the Naga and Demons, its Dragons running the show. If anything, its a bit less cut throat as nobody wants to rise too high for fear of earning the wrong sort of attention from the dragons.
The other way around, actually:
- The Ojutai are fanatical, highly dogmatic cultists which are explicitly stated to be a lesser caste to the dragons, to the point that in whatever instance a dragon decides to murder a mortal they get away with it.
- The SIlumgar are fred from the racism of the Sultai (though in practise the dragons are obviously usually above the mortals, if for no other reason than inherent power)
Weren't the Silumgar stated to be the only Dragon Brood were a mortal could rise to hold a rank above a Dragon? I can't remember where I read it, but I'm faily sure that it's Canon.
Re: Lands having degraded under the Khans rule:
Have you taken a look at the basic land art for DTK? The Sultai palaces are in ruins. Not just overgrown, in literal ruins. The Mardu plains are plagued by rolling thunder clouds, the abzan deserts choked by sandstorms. The Jeskai mountain peaks are frozen over, the waterfalls lost. And the Temur tundra is charred by dragon fire and active volcanoes.
If you really want to use symbolism to explain how one timeline is better than the other, don't just focus on one timeline. Even if the basic land art is legitimately telling us that the plane suffered under the rule of the khans, it similarly shows us that the plane suffered under the rule of the dragons at least as much, if not even more.
The Ojutai aren't bad off, and life in that brood is better than life in most places in the multiverse
Except that non-dragons in Ojutai society have literally no rights? Off the top of my head I can think of a bunch of places in the multiverse where life is better than this.
Oh, I'm not arguing that KTK or DTK was better, I'm saying that the lands were the only evidence I saw that KTK was worse off than FRF.
But you're absolutely right, DTK hasn't been an improvement, and actually looks to be even worse, which, as was stated in the State of Design last year, left people feeling disappointed with how things were left.
So yeah, DTK seems to have screwed over the Clans, and Tarkir itself, completely. Although, I'd kind of like to see Narset convince Sarkhan that Tarkir is still broken, and they need to fix it by bringing the Dragons to heel, like they were under Ugin.
You missed the part where Phyrexians have invaded Tarkir though. *kidding*
But the artwork does paint a pretty bad picture. Only the Forest looks arguably fine in the Dragons world, the rest look really bad. Are there before and after pictures for the other lands or was this the only cycle? Kind of curious, I didn't pay attention to the basic lands as much. But it definitely looks like Tarkir has a lot to get fixed, kind of curious how they'll manage that.
Re: Lands having degraded under the Khans rule:
Have you taken a look at the basic land art for DTK? The Sultai palaces are in ruins. Not just overgrown, in literal ruins. The Mardu plains are plagued by rolling thunder clouds, the abzan deserts choked by sandstorms. The Jeskai mountain peaks are frozen over, the waterfalls lost. And the Temur tundra is charred by dragon fire and active volcanoes.
If you really want to use symbolism to explain how one timeline is better than the other, don't just focus on one timeline. Even if the basic land art is legitimately telling us that the plane suffered under the rule of the khans, it similarly shows us that the plane suffered under the rule of the dragons at least as much, if not even more.
The Ojutai aren't bad off, and life in that brood is better than life in most places in the multiverse
Except that non-dragons in Ojutai society have literally no rights? Off the top of my head I can think of a bunch of places in the multiverse where life is better than this.
Oh, I'm not arguing that KTK or DTK was better, I'm saying that the lands were the only evidence I saw that KTK was worse off than FRF.
But you're absolutely right, DTK hasn't been an improvement, and actually looks to be even worse, which, as was stated in the State of Design last year, left people feeling disappointed with how things were left.
So yeah, DTK seems to have screwed over the Clans, and Tarkir itself, completely. Although, I'd kind of like to see Narset convince Sarkhan that Tarkir is still broken, and they need to fix it by bringing the Dragons to heel, like they were under Ugin.
You missed the part where Phyrexians have invaded Tarkir though. *kidding*
But the artwork does paint a pretty bad picture. Only the Forest looks arguably fine in the Dragons world, the rest look really bad. Are there before and after pictures for the other lands or was this the only cycle? Kind of curious, I didn't pay attention to the basic lands as much. But it definitely looks like Tarkir has a lot to get fixed, kind of curious how they'll manage that.
This was the only cycle that spanned all three sets in the Tarkir block. There was also one cycle showing the Clan wedge color Lands during KTK and FRF:
And two comparing the KTK and DTK Clan color lands:
My impression regarding the reasons for conflict between the clans in the Khans timeline is that the clans had been militarized against the threat of dragons for so long, that after their extinction their conflict-defined cultures turned on one another in the absence of a larger common threat. We know they were in conflict with one another even during Fate Reforged, or at least had tense relations at best.
And regarding whether the Dragons timeline is meant to be an improvement over Khans: MaRo has mentioned a number of times on his blog that he, personally, considers the Tarkir block to be one where the "villains" win. Sarkhan may prefer this outcome, and Ugin's survival is a positive effect, but it comes at the cost of the rest of the plane being enslaved, terrorized, and/or made subservient to an overabundance of Dragons. Being the "Dragon Set" was a sales hook, but that doesn't mean it's a "good ending." Compare to New Phyrexia, with "magic-techno-plague-zombies" replaced by "dragon clans."
i don't think there can be any question that DTK is better for intelligent species as a whole. in KTK not only was an entire intelligent species completely annihilated but the remaining species were all (with the possible exception of the jeskai)still being ruled by either out right tyrants, or people that were being forced to be cruel and ruthless for the sake of their perspective clans.
we saw what both sides did when they had the key to ultimate victory placed in their grasp. one side wiped their enemies out completely and went on to turn against each other. the other side spared their enemies and while a lot here make a fuse about how badly the clans have it with their dragon tyrants most of the so called tyranny was either 1. still happening in the timeline the khans won 2. the khans had a different kind of tyranny that was arguably just as bad. 0r 3. it's only speculation that said tyranny is happening at all.
i don't think there can be any question that DTK is better for intelligent species as a whole. in KTK not only was an entire intelligent species completely annihilated but the remaining species were all (with the possible exception of the jeskai)still being ruled by either out right tyrants, or people that were being forced to be cruel and ruthless for the sake of their perspective clans.
we saw what both sides did when they had the key to ultimate victory placed in their grasp. one side wiped their enemies out completely and went on to turn against each other. the other side spared their enemies and while a lot here make a fuse about how badly the clans have it with their dragon tyrants most of the so called tyranny was either 1. still happening in the timeline the khans won 2. the khans had a different kind of tyranny that was arguably just as bad. 0r 3. it's only speculation that said tyranny is happening at all.
Where do I even begin?
- Guess what? DRAGONS started their genocidal campaigns against the clans, and only spared the clans when the opportunity to either enslave (Atarka and Silumgar) or indoctrinate (Dromoka and Ojutai) arose. The only dragonlord who wasn't out to kill almost every other sapient species was Kollaghan, and only because she likes other people suffering.
- No, the khans never did went to the extremes the dragonlords have. Neither of the Temur khans were cannibalistic monsters that went out of the way to remind their underlings of their place (incidently, both original timeline Surrak and Yasova are fairly decent people), neither of the Abzan khans were social darwinists attacking others for their beliefs and certainly neither of the Jeskai khans were orwellian tyrants.
And regarding whether the Dragons timeline is meant to be an improvement over Khans: MaRo has mentioned a number of times on his blog that he, personally, considers the Tarkir block to be one where the "villains" win.
The issue is that Maro loves over-simplified stories as they appeal to a larger audience, and as such improve his fanbase and claims that the story is popular like never before. Listen to him and everything that was remotely creative, like the Titan Suits etc are always considered a "mistake". He's probably the last official MTG source I'd consider worthy to explore deeper story issues.
And regarding whether the Dragons timeline is meant to be an improvement over Khans: MaRo has mentioned a number of times on his blog that he, personally, considers the Tarkir block to be one where the "villains" win.
The issue is that Maro loves over-simplified stories as they appeal to a larger audience, and as such improve his fanbase and claims that the story is popular like never before. Listen to him and everything that was remotely creative, like the Titan Suits etc are always considered a "mistake". He's probably the last official MTG source I'd consider worthy to explore deeper story issues.
To be fair, while I disagree with some of Maro's reasonings, IMO Tarkir gives plenty to think about, having (over-)analysed it previously. But I personally think "moral righteousness must always win" is oversimplified, but YMMV.
And regarding whether the Dragons timeline is meant to be an improvement over Khans: MaRo has mentioned a number of times on his blog that he, personally, considers the Tarkir block to be one where the "villains" win.
The issue is that Maro loves over-simplified stories as they appeal to a larger audience, and as such improve his fanbase and claims that the story is popular like never before. Listen to him and everything that was remotely creative, like the Titan Suits etc are always considered a "mistake". He's probably the last official MTG source I'd consider worthy to explore deeper story issues.
So in your view giant robots are deep and creative concept but a time travel story presented from the point of view of a person who does not believe their disastrous actions are wrong is shallow and derivative?
And regarding whether the Dragons timeline is meant to be an improvement over Khans: MaRo has mentioned a number of times on his blog that he, personally, considers the Tarkir block to be one where the "villains" win.
The issue is that Maro loves over-simplified stories as they appeal to a larger audience, and as such improve his fanbase and claims that the story is popular like never before. Listen to him and everything that was remotely creative, like the Titan Suits etc are always considered a "mistake". He's probably the last official MTG source I'd consider worthy to explore deeper story issues.
Well at least part of why Maro is brought up is because people were saying that Wizards treated the Dragons timeline as a good thing for Tarkir, so Maro saying that directly refutes that. Though I don't especially get your objection with it being a time the villains won.
Tarkir was one of my favorite planes, I love the expanse of their culture and geographic beauty, until Sarkhan arrived.
Sarkhan saving Ugin was necessary for fighting the Eldrazi... so we were led to believe, until Gatewatch took over. The event doesn't bother me, what bothers me is that Sarkhan is such a dragon fanboy who literally believes that dragons should rule over people, every time he speaks it reeks of submission and toadyism. It doesn't help when the dragons were colonists who dominate and erase clan cultures, deem them inferior or abominable, then ironically use clansman to fight draconic war just like any human tyrant in power would do: You don't follow my way, I'll force you to do so.
If there is an expansion for Tarkir, I hope the humans rise up and butcher the dragons.
Sarkhan saving Ugin was necessary for fighting the Eldrazi... so we were led to believe, until Gatewatch took over.
In all fairness, without Ugin, Jace wouldn't have known the shape of the glyph required to pull the Eldrazi into physical space. So even if Ugin wasn't directly involved in killing the titans, he still needed to be revived, if Zendikar was to be saved.
Rotations are my life now. Glad to see healthy discussion in here. Whatever comes about with Tarkir 2.0, I just want them to move Sarkhan back into BRG. What Tarkir needs is a Dragonfall, during which a new threat presents itself - one which requires the Dragonlords strength, cruelty and cunning. Then we can close on a Tarkir where the Dragonlords are a necessity, but also a cure that may be worse than the disease (the new threat).
And regarding whether the Dragons timeline is meant to be an improvement over Khans: MaRo has mentioned a number of times on his blog that he, personally, considers the Tarkir block to be one where the "villains" win.
The issue is that Maro loves over-simplified stories as they appeal to a larger audience, and as such improve his fanbase and claims that the story is popular like never before. Listen to him and everything that was remotely creative, like the Titan Suits etc are always considered a "mistake". He's probably the last official MTG source I'd consider worthy to explore deeper story issues.
Putting assumptions about character and motivations aside, my point wasn't regarding Mark Rosewater specifically but the intentions of the Tarkir story arc from WotC in general, using MaRo's comments as an example from one of the more prolific and easily accessible sources of information regarding Magic R&D. It was the only example that came to my mind easily, I do not recall off-hand any comments on this specific subject (whether the Dragonlords should be considered villainous or not) from the Creative team if there are any available.
Sarkhan saving Ugin was necessary for fighting the Eldrazi... so we were led to believe, until Gatewatch took over.
In all fairness, without Ugin, Jace wouldn't have known the shape of the glyph required to pull the Eldrazi into physical space. So even if Ugin wasn't directly involved in killing the titans, he still needed to be revived, if Zendikar was to be saved.
If there is an expansion for Tarkir, I hope the humans rise up and butcher the dragons.
This is bound to happen. the premises of DTK are fallacious. Humans have a self-assuming nature and don't work under "masters", a world in which humans are ignorant pawns of dragon overlords makes no sense. Sooner or later, an elite will foment some rebellion and overthrow their oppressors. I just hope the Dragonfall doesn't come in the form of the Power of Friendship(TM).
This is bound to happen. the premises of DTK are fallacious. Humans have a self-assuming nature and don't work under "masters", a world in which humans are ignorant pawns of dragon overlords makes no sense. Sooner or later, an elite will foment some rebellion and overthrow their oppressors.
I agree that people do tend to overthrow their oppressors eventually (though certainly not always) I'm not sure how you think real world history applies here at all. Its hard to fight for civil rights against creatures that consider you to be food, especially when they're highly intelligent, dozens of times your size, and can kill you as easily as look at you. The best they can hope for is a more equitable detente than the current one.
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I don't think Wizards intention is that the Dragon world is supposed to be better. It's different, Sarkhan likes it more, but neither of those means that Wizards is trying to say it is better. The only statement I recall on it is Maro saying that Sarkhan likes it better, but that it's worse for humans currently.
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Have you taken a look at the basic land art for DTK? The Sultai palaces are in ruins. Not just overgrown, in literal ruins. The Mardu plains are plagued by rolling thunder clouds, the abzan deserts choked by sandstorms. The Jeskai mountain peaks are frozen over, the waterfalls lost. And the Temur tundra is charred by dragon fire and active volcanoes.
If you really want to use symbolism to explain how one timeline is better than the other, don't just focus on one timeline. Even if the basic land art is legitimately telling us that the plane suffered under the rule of the khans, it similarly shows us that the plane suffered under the rule of the dragons at least as much, if not even more.
Except that non-dragons in Ojutai society have literally no rights? Off the top of my head I can think of a bunch of places in the multiverse where life is better than this.
Oh, I'm not arguing that KTK or DTK was better, I'm saying that the lands were the only evidence I saw that KTK was worse off than FRF.
But you're absolutely right, DTK hasn't been an improvement, and actually looks to be even worse, which, as was stated in the State of Design last year, left people feeling disappointed with how things were left.
So yeah, DTK seems to have screwed over the Clans, and Tarkir itself, completely. Although, I'd kind of like to see Narset convince Sarkhan that Tarkir is still broken, and they need to fix it by bringing the Dragons to heel, like they were under Ugin.
The other way around, actually:
- The Ojutai are fanatical, highly dogmatic cultists which are explicitly stated to be a lesser caste to the dragons, to the point that in whatever instance a dragon decides to murder a mortal they get away with it.
- The SIlumgar are fred from the racism of the Sultai (though in practise the dragons are obviously usually above the mortals, if for no other reason than inherent power)
Weren't the Silumgar stated to be the only Dragon Brood were a mortal could rise to hold a rank above a Dragon? I can't remember where I read it, but I'm faily sure that it's Canon.
You missed the part where Phyrexians have invaded Tarkir though. *kidding*
But the artwork does paint a pretty bad picture. Only the Forest looks arguably fine in the Dragons world, the rest look really bad. Are there before and after pictures for the other lands or was this the only cycle? Kind of curious, I didn't pay attention to the basic lands as much. But it definitely looks like Tarkir has a lot to get fixed, kind of curious how they'll manage that.
This was the only cycle that spanned all three sets in the Tarkir block. There was also one cycle showing the Clan wedge color Lands during KTK and FRF:
And two comparing the KTK and DTK Clan color lands:
And that took way more time than I had expected.
And regarding whether the Dragons timeline is meant to be an improvement over Khans: MaRo has mentioned a number of times on his blog that he, personally, considers the Tarkir block to be one where the "villains" win. Sarkhan may prefer this outcome, and Ugin's survival is a positive effect, but it comes at the cost of the rest of the plane being enslaved, terrorized, and/or made subservient to an overabundance of Dragons. Being the "Dragon Set" was a sales hook, but that doesn't mean it's a "good ending." Compare to New Phyrexia, with "magic-techno-plague-zombies" replaced by "dragon clans."
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we saw what both sides did when they had the key to ultimate victory placed in their grasp. one side wiped their enemies out completely and went on to turn against each other. the other side spared their enemies and while a lot here make a fuse about how badly the clans have it with their dragon tyrants most of the so called tyranny was either 1. still happening in the timeline the khans won 2. the khans had a different kind of tyranny that was arguably just as bad. 0r 3. it's only speculation that said tyranny is happening at all.
Which is odd because that forest is definitely in Atarka lands and we've were told that the Atarka a basically nomadic ecological catastrophe.
Where do I even begin?
- Guess what? DRAGONS started their genocidal campaigns against the clans, and only spared the clans when the opportunity to either enslave (Atarka and Silumgar) or indoctrinate (Dromoka and Ojutai) arose. The only dragonlord who wasn't out to kill almost every other sapient species was Kollaghan, and only because she likes other people suffering.
- No, the khans never did went to the extremes the dragonlords have. Neither of the Temur khans were cannibalistic monsters that went out of the way to remind their underlings of their place (incidently, both original timeline Surrak and Yasova are fairly decent people), neither of the Abzan khans were social darwinists attacking others for their beliefs and certainly neither of the Jeskai khans were orwellian tyrants.
- When did ever two wrongs make a right?
The issue is that Maro loves over-simplified stories as they appeal to a larger audience, and as such improve his fanbase and claims that the story is popular like never before. Listen to him and everything that was remotely creative, like the Titan Suits etc are always considered a "mistake". He's probably the last official MTG source I'd consider worthy to explore deeper story issues.
To be fair, while I disagree with some of Maro's reasonings, IMO Tarkir gives plenty to think about, having (over-)analysed it previously. But I personally think "moral righteousness must always win" is oversimplified, but YMMV.
So in your view giant robots are deep and creative concept but a time travel story presented from the point of view of a person who does not believe their disastrous actions are wrong is shallow and derivative?
Well at least part of why Maro is brought up is because people were saying that Wizards treated the Dragons timeline as a good thing for Tarkir, so Maro saying that directly refutes that. Though I don't especially get your objection with it being a time the villains won.
Sarkhan saving Ugin was necessary for fighting the Eldrazi... so we were led to believe, until Gatewatch took over. The event doesn't bother me, what bothers me is that Sarkhan is such a dragon fanboy who literally believes that dragons should rule over people, every time he speaks it reeks of submission and toadyism. It doesn't help when the dragons were colonists who dominate and erase clan cultures, deem them inferior or abominable, then ironically use clansman to fight draconic war just like any human tyrant in power would do: You don't follow my way, I'll force you to do so.
If there is an expansion for Tarkir, I hope the humans rise up and butcher the dragons.
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In all fairness, without Ugin, Jace wouldn't have known the shape of the glyph required to pull the Eldrazi into physical space. So even if Ugin wasn't directly involved in killing the titans, he still needed to be revived, if Zendikar was to be saved.
Looking forward to the set "Dragonfall" myself.
Putting assumptions about character and motivations aside, my point wasn't regarding Mark Rosewater specifically but the intentions of the Tarkir story arc from WotC in general, using MaRo's comments as an example from one of the more prolific and easily accessible sources of information regarding Magic R&D. It was the only example that came to my mind easily, I do not recall off-hand any comments on this specific subject (whether the Dragonlords should be considered villainous or not) from the Creative team if there are any available.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
Sarkhan, Narset and the Khans VS Bolas and the (enslaved) Dragonlords? Yes please.
This is bound to happen. the premises of DTK are fallacious. Humans have a self-assuming nature and don't work under "masters", a world in which humans are ignorant pawns of dragon overlords makes no sense. Sooner or later, an elite will foment some rebellion and overthrow their oppressors. I just hope the Dragonfall doesn't come in the form of the Power of Friendship(TM).
I agree that people do tend to overthrow their oppressors eventually (though certainly not always) I'm not sure how you think real world history applies here at all. Its hard to fight for civil rights against creatures that consider you to be food, especially when they're highly intelligent, dozens of times your size, and can kill you as easily as look at you. The best they can hope for is a more equitable detente than the current one.