With comics, and I'm not an expert, you don't have this. You have en endless, ongoing story made up of events that pop-up here and there, crossovers, reboots, alternate universes, U-turns and so on. But there's no end in sight which keeps the readers who like the universe or characters hooked up until eternity.
THIS. People keep focusing on the "teaming up" aspect, but that wouldn't make the Jacetus League an Avengers ripoff unless the story had already become comic book like. Unbounded story arcs are a big part of that. Granted, not all comics are like this, Watchmen being well known, but standard superhero comics are. Heroes transcending story arcs is a hallmark of the superhero genre. The point is the characters as a brand, not the stories they are in, which serve only to give the characters things to do. Giving them origin stories and a superhero team didnt make it this way, it just checked off tropes.
Yes, what you're saying overall about the story is mostly true, but this is true of any serialized story without a specific end point in mind... but let's not dwell on that part.
Why is this a bad thing, which seems to always be the implication? A lot of people, especially new people, love the format. I think people view the Weatherlight Saga with nostalgia glasses, it had some major issues - not the least of which was accessibility. The issue here is that it seems like people are expecting a type of storyline that just isn't as feasible with the block structure, and that just doesn't resonate with the majority of fans. There is a reason for the current structure, and that reason is that people didn't like the old one, overall. We forget, storyline forums like this one are kind of an echo chamber, the vast majority of people only want a high-level view of the story.
I feel like BFZ was a stumble, but Shadows Over Innistrad is showing that this new format can be really good! And there's nothing wrong with tropes!
Edit: I should be clear, it's okay to disagree! I'm legitimately interested in your thoughts.
Why is this a bad thing, which seems to always be the implication?
As far as I'm concerned, it's not a bad thing. If it brings more people into the storyline, why wouldn't they do it?
I admit for me nostalgia plays a part in finding the Weatherlight saga the best Magic storyline (it's also the only one I read along with Time Spiral), and also for the reasons I expressed (you knew you were going somewhere definitive).
But then again, if I'm not too much into serialized stories, it doesn't mean I find it to be a terrible thing. It's also quite necessary now with that endless plane-hopping and "back to...", your BFZ/SOI comparisons explain it quite clearly.
The larger point was that there are many factors that add up to the story being more comic booky, and that the neowalkers are only one factor. The team up and switch to following the team as a serialized story arc were merely the last steps. It's been comic booky since Tarkir with the elimination of novels (even the ebooks counted) and the focus on telling the story through the cards, supplemented by uncharted realms. The Gatewatch just gave magic an A list team, like the Avengers or Justice League, but like the Marvel and DC universes told their stories comic book (obviously) before then, so did Magic.
LotR has a bunch of heroes from various origins teaming up to defeat a big bad. LotR is about as classic fantasy as it gets.
Before anyone takes me wrong, what I mean by that is that if you reduce anything to a trope, you'll find it everywhere.
Which is why I said that the trope was only one part of what makes it comic booky, and that all it does is make the transition more obvious. If the Jacetus League were comparable to the Fellowship, they'd have broken up after saving Zendikar. Pledging to be a standing group of superpowers individuals dedicated to protecting the world from various threats as an open ended commitment, while not SOLELY the purview of comics, is best known from comics and shows/movies based on comics.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
I feel like BFZ was a stumble, but Shadows Over Innistrad is showing that this new format can be really good! And there's nothing wrong with tropes!
I feel like some of the background information as to why BFZ was a mess is needed as well. It wasn't just that the story was bad, the story suffered on two fronts. First is Rise of the Eldrazi did not score well with story gurus. The biggest evidence being the Teeth of Akoum being retconned as far out of existence as Wizards could get it. It's kind of weird to build a sequel on a first installment that for almost all intents and purposes doesn't exist.
The second issue is that Battle for Zendikar was hit by the shift to the two set paradigm. We know it was already being concepted when Wizards made the shift, and that had to do a number on the story. They lost time on a lot of projects but Zendikar had to be fixed first and in a hurry. There's a good chance Emrakul was supposed to be the now scrapped third set, and without the space to include her (both because block arcs are now told in half the time and set design space) that meant major rewrites to the plot and not with the normal amount of time they have to flesh out stories.
This is all speculation of course… but it's not that hard to see. The point is to all the other people is give Wizards a little more time. They look like they're finding their stride with the story now they've had more time.
Also about the shift in story: it's not THAT big of a shift. It honestly started back in original Mirrodin block where it foreshadowed New Phyrexia about 6 years in advanced. And we've been in an endless timeline for long before then. I feel it's back to the all time high of people following the story: there's more people to notice and therefore to participate.
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Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
Gonna speak from the perspective of someone who didn't read the stories and now does:
I've always been interested in the stories, but before, I relied on the Wiki summaries to keep me informed. You could say I was a Cliff's Notes kind of reader.
Now, I read the full material for the most part.
My sudden attention to the full stories had nothing to do with the substance of the stories themselves. Rather, it had to do with me figuring out how to readily access the stories.
I don't know if this changed recently or not, but I've found it easier to consume the stories on Wizards' site. That the driving force behind my newfound understanding.
As I say, that may just be due to me suddenly realizing this was there all along. Regardless, there's my anecdote.
High story awareness and more participants in discussion is a double-edged sword. It's no longer an echo chamber of the same handful of people deeply invested in the story, but on the opposite end is the amount of inane, vapid people that probably write Sonic the Hedgehog "original characters" or Harry x Malfoy fanfics. I think that there's still this ongoing, circular debate from a "Still not Emrakul in Eldritch Moon" crowd is evidence enough of that. Or the "Who should X character hook up with" threads. Ugh.
Gonna speak from the perspective of someone who didn't read the stories and now does:
I've always been interested in the stories, but before, I relied on the Wiki summaries to keep me informed. You could say I was a Cliff's Notes kind of reader.
Now, I read the full material for the most part.
My sudden attention to the full stories had nothing to do with the substance of the stories themselves. Rather, it had to do with me figuring out how to readily access the stories. I don't know if this changed recently or not, but I've found it easier to consume the stories on Wizards' site. That the driving force behind my newfound understanding.
As I say, that may just be due to me suddenly realizing this was there all along. Regardless, there's my anecdote.
This is a very recent development starting with Tarkir. Before Tarkir if you wanted to actually know what was going on in the story being told by Wizards you had to go somewhere other than their website. This has had a radical effect on the number of people who keep up with the story, its already on the site they check regularly. This change was before the 2 block system but it was the time when creative was being completely overhauled to start actually telling their stories. They tried paper books and those failed, they tried nothing and it was worse, they did e-books and still didn't get the numbers they wanted. So they finally put their story in the one place nearly every magic player checks THEIR OWN FREAKIN WEBSITE. While some people aren't happy with the current quality, direction, or even mode of delivery of the story, the fact that they put the actual story on their website has caused a significant jump in story awareness, and with the story on the cards(starting with BFZ so a shift from Tarkir) even more people are aware of the story. They have some problems and from the looks of SOI they are working to fix some of them so the entire story section of magic is on an upwards trend.
I played Legend of the 5 rings in the past. They had the weekly fiction column and the current magic story is exactly that. I really like the format and I think it is a great way in getting the story of a set across.
From a quality perspective. It is good. Really good considering they put it out for free any have no immediate return of investment there.
So yeah I am not surprised why so much more people are aware of the story nowadays.
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Drop your knees to the floor
Hands to the sky
Give a round of applause
For the great Miss Y!
With comics, and I'm not an expert, you don't have this. You have en endless, ongoing story made up of events that pop-up here and there, crossovers, reboots, alternate universes, U-turns and so on. But there's no end in sight which keeps the readers who like the universe or characters hooked up until eternity.
THIS. People keep focusing on the "teaming up" aspect, but that wouldn't make the Jacetus League an Avengers ripoff unless the story had already become comic book like. Unbounded story arcs are a big part of that. Granted, not all comics are like this, Watchmen being well known, but standard superhero comics are. Heroes transcending story arcs is a hallmark of the superhero genre. The point is the characters as a brand, not the stories they are in, which serve only to give the characters things to do. Giving them origin stories and a superhero team didnt make it this way, it just checked off tropes.
Yes, what you're saying overall about the story is mostly true, but this is true of any serialized story without a specific end point in mind... but let's not dwell on that part.
Why is this a bad thing, which seems to always be the implication? A lot of people, especially new people, love the format. I think people view the Weatherlight Saga with nostalgia glasses, it had some major issues - not the least of which was accessibility. The issue here is that it seems like people are expecting a type of storyline that just isn't as feasible with the block structure, and that just doesn't resonate with the majority of fans. There is a reason for the current structure, and that reason is that people didn't like the old one, overall. We forget, storyline forums like this one are kind of an echo chamber, the vast majority of people only want a high-level view of the story.
I feel like BFZ was a stumble, but Shadows Over Innistrad is showing that this new format can be really good! And there's nothing wrong with tropes!
Edit: I should be clear, it's okay to disagree! I'm legitimately interested in your thoughts.
In terms of quality, it is neither a bad thing nor a good thing. Magic's structure of a regular release schedule for sets (and this issues of the story) lends itself to the style. While other forms of serialized media exist, magic players (and the general public at this point) are most familiar with comic books as an example of non video serialized media, and magic is marketed at the same demo as superhero comics. That the story checks off multiple tropes associated with comics, and magic, like comics, is a visual medium, only reinforces this connection.
Again, it's not necessarily bad. Comics are popular, and often good, and the MCU is extremely popular and high quality. Of course, comics can also be terrible just like any other form of storytelling. Comics though, they have a few ways that they fail that are unique, and that many people probably fear could happen to magic. Stupid retcons (which magic has done plenty of since becoming more comic booky). a tendency to artificially extend storylines, character arcs, and even characters beyond their shelf life because they are properties that sold. A use it or lose it mentality with characters and settings which causes the company to force the use of heroes and villains even if they don't really fit in the story, or don't have a story to tell. Wacky, we're running out of ideas storylines involving alternate universes and fights between heroes. Goofy filler bull***** (which we see plenty of already).
If wizards can avoid this, they have something great on their hands. If they don't, like with BFZ, it sucks hard. The difference here from before is that there is now no final resolution. The weatherlight saga had an endgame. block stories, good or bad, lasted a year. The continuing tale of the walkers will continue until it stops selling. If wotc can churn out more Innistrads and fewer BFZs, it'll be for the best. Remember, when we were getting unrelated block stories, we judged each story separately. Kamigawa had a great story, mirrodin was lame, Ravnica was fun, etc. Now, it's all one story, magic's story. If the good keeps coming we'll look at it and say "magic has a great story". If they keep churning out BFZs, we'll say that magic has a crappy story. It's a gamble they are taking, and it could pay off with increased buy in to go along with that awareness, or increased disinterest.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Thanks for explaining your point of view - it clears up the misapprehension I had about what you were getting at.
No problem. I'll also add that I think fully committing to the comic book style is better than what we had post mending, when the story was moving to a comic book style while still clinging to the old novel based approach. That's how we got trash from Alara through Scars.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
The lines between superheroes and fantasy are pretty blurry tbh. Their powers may as well be magic. The story told with Zendikar 2 was far from my favorite, but SOI has been fantastic.
Alara's formatting reminded me of Cook's Black Company novels. Short, punchy chapters.
The magic storyline has been a righteous mess for the longest time. I feel it benefits from the cohesion that planeswalkers bring. This ties into the point about needing a final resolution, which I don't think is necessary. With a final resolution we get one-set stories like Mirrodin through Lorwyn. You can still have those, which is what we had with BFZ and will have with SOI, except with characters that bring the universe together. I like seeing similar characters in new situations. It makes the whole multiverse seem more connected. I really want to know what happens to Elspeth next, and I probably care more about a return to Theros because it means I would get to see Elspeth again and continue her story. Honestly, I didn't even read the stories during EM previews because I gave zero *****s about some random pyromancer or some random lady on a plane no one has cared about for years. For me, these are just generic fantasy fan fiction, easily replaceable. There is little at stake, nothing that happens in those stories will affect much of anything else, so they might as well not exist. I don't care about the characters, I don't care about the story.
For me stories are more compelling with characters I recognize, and with stakes that matter. I enjoyed reading about Jeska again, and seeing Myojin of Night's Reach interact with other characters during Time Spiral. It was cool to see my favorite characters appear again and for them to interact with characters from disparate places. Kamahl is a man's man, even after getting in touch with his feminine viridian side, and you can bet your ass I would DEVOUR any new story with him in it (if it had any impact on current story lines, otherwise it would be a bit of a let down, I can write my own Kamahl fanfic or find some elsewhere). Some stories are still compelling, like the Gitrog Monster story, without a direct impact on the main storyline, but I think that is because we already know much of the context and less time has to spent on explaining the situation like with the random stories during the two EM weeks. We know that madness is spreading on Innistrad, we know what Cathars are and stuff, so it is easier to just jump into the story.
Characters teaming up is not what made BFZ bad. There were many other issues, the ending wasn't the greatest, writing could have been more compelling, too much time spent on uninteresting scenes, etc. Planeswalkers teaming up was not the issue, and from what it looks like so far, that isn't even going to be the standard from here on out. The cards also fell flat for a lot of reasons covered elsewhere, which certainly didn't help.
I feel like some of the background information as to why BFZ was a mess is needed as well. It wasn't just that the story was bad, the story suffered on two fronts. First is Rise of the Eldrazi did not score well with story gurus. The biggest evidence being the Teeth of Akoum being retconned as far out of existence as Wizards could get it. It's kind of weird to build a sequel on a first installment that for almost all intents and purposes doesn't exist.
what is akoum and what happened that was retconned.
I feel like some of the background information as to why BFZ was a mess is needed as well. It wasn't just that the story was bad, the story suffered on two fronts. First is Rise of the Eldrazi did not score well with story gurus. The biggest evidence being the Teeth of Akoum being retconned as far out of existence as Wizards could get it. It's kind of weird to build a sequel on a first installment that for almost all intents and purposes doesn't exist.
what is akoum and what happened that was retconned.
I have a full summary of the novel In the Teeth of Akoum and a discussion of the retcons in this article.
After doing some heavier reading into the story line, including the superhero Planeswalkers, along with chatting with some of my mates about the story and its effect, I've come to this conclusion: It's not as bad as I thought.
I still think that killing off of two Eldrazi titans with little effort was very lame, but I've come to see the Planeswalker team-up as LotR style fiction. Bringing together multiple characters (with different skills) in order to tell an overarching story line that will likely break down into smaller groups of sub-stories isn't a bad way of telling said story. Plus superheroes are very popular at the moment, financially WotC is betting on a good trend - though there are blokes like me who are disenfranchised by super-movies these days, many people still love 'em.
I'm still a bit rough about it, but I'm willing to see where it all goes. There are nitpicks I don't like, but there is always nitpicks in life. I'd rather just try to enjoy the ride then derail it all the time with my complaints. I am very glad that WotC publishes short stories on their official site; very much enjoyed reading the one between Nahiri and Sorin - the vampire is such an ass. Hope that bloodsucker gets a good walloping. I'd prefer it if Nahiri ended him, but alas the character is too popular for WotC to attempt such a move. More than likely Nahiri is the one going to bite* it.
After doing some heavier reading into the story line, including the superhero Planeswalkers, along with chatting with some of my mates about the story and its effect, I've come to this conclusion: It's not as bad as I thought.
I still think that killing off of two Eldrazi titans with little effort was very lame, but I've come to see the Planeswalker team-up as LotR style fiction. Bringing together multiple characters (with different skills) in order to tell an overarching story line that will likely break down into smaller groups of sub-stories isn't a bad way of telling said story. Plus superheroes are very popular at the moment, financially WotC is betting on a good trend - though there are blokes like me who are disenfranchised by super-movies these days, many people still love 'em.
I'm still a bit rough about it, but I'm willing to see where it all goes. There are nitpicks I don't like, but there is always nitpicks in life. I'd rather just try to enjoy the ride then derail it all the time with my complaints. I am very glad that WotC publishes short stories on their official site; very much enjoyed reading the one between Nahiri and Sorin - the vampire is such an ass. Hope that bloodsucker gets a good walloping. I'd prefer it if Nahiri ended him, but alas the character is too popular for WotC to attempt such a move. More than likely Nahiri is the one going to bite* it.
* Yes, pun intended.
They were not killed off with little effort. The initial plan failed, and they almost consumed all of Zendikar. Only Chandra's hail mary allowed them to win. And she ended up crippled from channeling that much mana, in addition to the somewhat depleted mana of Zendikar.
They were not killed off with little effort. The initial plan failed, and they almost consumed all of Zendikar. Only Chandra's hail mary allowed them to win. And she ended up crippled from channeling that much mana, in addition to the somewhat depleted mana of Zendikar.
So four minor Neo-Walkers were able to accomplish what three original 'Walkers could not? Three of the strongest original 'Walkers? Yes?
I disagree myself. The defeat of both Eldrazi titans was shoehorned and terribly written/cliche. WotC was simply not willing to write a story if it came at the expense of either Zendikar or one of their new superheroes. The entire battle, capture and death by fire ending of the story was so lazily written and uninspired it makes me worried about the future of Magic stories.
If WotC had actually told a story, with real drama, sacrifice and depth I would not feel so heavily disappointed.
Imagine:
Ulamog, after a terrible battle is slain. But the cost was great; Gideon Jura, Hero of Planes, lost his life leading by example. His last efforts were used to keep the titan at bay as his allies sought their hardest to end it. Zendikar; during the battle Kozilek was left unabated to devour the rest of the plane and leave to devour more worlds. Thus the new 'Walkers victory came at a terrible price. Zendikar devastated beyond salvation, Ob Nixilis free and re-sparked, and Gideon Jura dead.
So now the three remaining allies must carry on the torch of Jura, seek out new allies, and hunt down the last two remaining titans whom threaten to devour the Blind Eternities themselves! Kiora will learn of the other Planeswalkers efforts and could be friend or foe; Ugin could tsk tsk; and Sorin can go off doing brooding emo-vampire things while Nahiri tries to end him.
That's just off the top of my head. I mean, WotC has a whole team of writers. I makes me sad.
They have gone out of their way to say that the three oldwalkers who sealed them never attempted to defeat them. Yes Sorin and Nahiri fought Ulamog's brood on a plane and the plane was lost, but they never faced Ulamog and never with any understanding of what it was. Ugin almost flat out states he could have dealt with the titans if that is what he wanted but he(the only one who knew anything about them) wanted them sealed so he told the others how to seal them. From the storyZendikar Resurgent
Jace blinked.
"You said that wasn't possible."
"I said it wasn't possible for you," said Ugin.
This heavily implies that Ugin could have dealt with the Titans, which gives us reason to believe that if the other old walkers knew about this trick they could have dealt with them as well.
Don't forget that Ugin was actually reticent of killing the Titans for fear that it could have horrible, unforeseen consequences.
Quote from "Ugin" »
"You've killed two living creatures that were older than worlds," said Ugin. "Without knowing their purpose, their role, the impact of their lives or their deaths—you risked this entire plane and unknown consequences beyond it to kill them. Because you could."
...
"As far as I'm aware, no one has ever killed an Eldrazi titan before. I have theories about what the Eldrazi are, and what might happen now that two of them are dead. The consequences may not accrue until long after all of you are dead, so you may count this as a victory if you wish. I, for my part, will study their remains, and prepare for the future."
I personally would have loved it if they had permanently crippled Chandra. They would get brownie points for having a handicapped character, and then Chandra would have the perfect excuse to return to Kaladesh: To get some mechanical bracers that would help her walk again. It also would be interesting to see such an independent character forced to rely on her new friends for help.
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Vorthos Cartography - Check out my completed maps of Zendikar and Innistrad!
"You say 'learn from history,' but that does not mean 'learn the same bull***** the people in history learned alongside phrenology and alchemy.'" - The Blinking Spirit
I feel like some of the background information as to why BFZ was a mess is needed as well. It wasn't just that the story was bad, the story suffered on two fronts. First is Rise of the Eldrazi did not score well with story gurus. The biggest evidence being the Teeth of Akoum being retconned as far out of existence as Wizards could get it. It's kind of weird to build a sequel on a first installment that for almost all intents and purposes doesn't exist.
what is akoum and what happened that was retconned.
I have a full summary of the novel In the Teeth of Akoum and a discussion of the retcons in this article.
Thanks thread was a good read.
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Why is this a bad thing, which seems to always be the implication? A lot of people, especially new people, love the format. I think people view the Weatherlight Saga with nostalgia glasses, it had some major issues - not the least of which was accessibility. The issue here is that it seems like people are expecting a type of storyline that just isn't as feasible with the block structure, and that just doesn't resonate with the majority of fans. There is a reason for the current structure, and that reason is that people didn't like the old one, overall. We forget, storyline forums like this one are kind of an echo chamber, the vast majority of people only want a high-level view of the story.
I feel like BFZ was a stumble, but Shadows Over Innistrad is showing that this new format can be really good! And there's nothing wrong with tropes!
Edit: I should be clear, it's okay to disagree! I'm legitimately interested in your thoughts.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
As far as I'm concerned, it's not a bad thing. If it brings more people into the storyline, why wouldn't they do it?
I admit for me nostalgia plays a part in finding the Weatherlight saga the best Magic storyline (it's also the only one I read along with Time Spiral), and also for the reasons I expressed (you knew you were going somewhere definitive).
But then again, if I'm not too much into serialized stories, it doesn't mean I find it to be a terrible thing. It's also quite necessary now with that endless plane-hopping and "back to...", your BFZ/SOI comparisons explain it quite clearly.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Which is why I said that the trope was only one part of what makes it comic booky, and that all it does is make the transition more obvious. If the Jacetus League were comparable to the Fellowship, they'd have broken up after saving Zendikar. Pledging to be a standing group of superpowers individuals dedicated to protecting the world from various threats as an open ended commitment, while not SOLELY the purview of comics, is best known from comics and shows/movies based on comics.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
I feel like some of the background information as to why BFZ was a mess is needed as well. It wasn't just that the story was bad, the story suffered on two fronts. First is Rise of the Eldrazi did not score well with story gurus. The biggest evidence being the Teeth of Akoum being retconned as far out of existence as Wizards could get it. It's kind of weird to build a sequel on a first installment that for almost all intents and purposes doesn't exist.
The second issue is that Battle for Zendikar was hit by the shift to the two set paradigm. We know it was already being concepted when Wizards made the shift, and that had to do a number on the story. They lost time on a lot of projects but Zendikar had to be fixed first and in a hurry. There's a good chance Emrakul was supposed to be the now scrapped third set, and without the space to include her (both because block arcs are now told in half the time and set design space) that meant major rewrites to the plot and not with the normal amount of time they have to flesh out stories.
This is all speculation of course… but it's not that hard to see. The point is to all the other people is give Wizards a little more time. They look like they're finding their stride with the story now they've had more time.
Also about the shift in story: it's not THAT big of a shift. It honestly started back in original Mirrodin block where it foreshadowed New Phyrexia about 6 years in advanced. And we've been in an endless timeline for long before then. I feel it's back to the all time high of people following the story: there's more people to notice and therefore to participate.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
I've always been interested in the stories, but before, I relied on the Wiki summaries to keep me informed. You could say I was a Cliff's Notes kind of reader.
Now, I read the full material for the most part.
My sudden attention to the full stories had nothing to do with the substance of the stories themselves. Rather, it had to do with me figuring out how to readily access the stories.
I don't know if this changed recently or not, but I've found it easier to consume the stories on Wizards' site. That the driving force behind my newfound understanding.
As I say, that may just be due to me suddenly realizing this was there all along. Regardless, there's my anecdote.
(Also known as Xenphire)
From a quality perspective. It is good. Really good considering they put it out for free any have no immediate return of investment there.
So yeah I am not surprised why so much more people are aware of the story nowadays.
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In terms of quality, it is neither a bad thing nor a good thing. Magic's structure of a regular release schedule for sets (and this issues of the story) lends itself to the style. While other forms of serialized media exist, magic players (and the general public at this point) are most familiar with comic books as an example of non video serialized media, and magic is marketed at the same demo as superhero comics. That the story checks off multiple tropes associated with comics, and magic, like comics, is a visual medium, only reinforces this connection.
Again, it's not necessarily bad. Comics are popular, and often good, and the MCU is extremely popular and high quality. Of course, comics can also be terrible just like any other form of storytelling. Comics though, they have a few ways that they fail that are unique, and that many people probably fear could happen to magic. Stupid retcons (which magic has done plenty of since becoming more comic booky). a tendency to artificially extend storylines, character arcs, and even characters beyond their shelf life because they are properties that sold. A use it or lose it mentality with characters and settings which causes the company to force the use of heroes and villains even if they don't really fit in the story, or don't have a story to tell. Wacky, we're running out of ideas storylines involving alternate universes and fights between heroes. Goofy filler bull***** (which we see plenty of already).
If wizards can avoid this, they have something great on their hands. If they don't, like with BFZ, it sucks hard. The difference here from before is that there is now no final resolution. The weatherlight saga had an endgame. block stories, good or bad, lasted a year. The continuing tale of the walkers will continue until it stops selling. If wotc can churn out more Innistrads and fewer BFZs, it'll be for the best. Remember, when we were getting unrelated block stories, we judged each story separately. Kamigawa had a great story, mirrodin was lame, Ravnica was fun, etc. Now, it's all one story, magic's story. If the good keeps coming we'll look at it and say "magic has a great story". If they keep churning out BFZs, we'll say that magic has a crappy story. It's a gamble they are taking, and it could pay off with increased buy in to go along with that awareness, or increased disinterest.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
No problem. I'll also add that I think fully committing to the comic book style is better than what we had post mending, when the story was moving to a comic book style while still clinging to the old novel based approach. That's how we got trash from Alara through Scars.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Alara's formatting reminded me of Cook's Black Company novels. Short, punchy chapters.
For me stories are more compelling with characters I recognize, and with stakes that matter. I enjoyed reading about Jeska again, and seeing Myojin of Night's Reach interact with other characters during Time Spiral. It was cool to see my favorite characters appear again and for them to interact with characters from disparate places. Kamahl is a man's man, even after getting in touch with his feminine viridian side, and you can bet your ass I would DEVOUR any new story with him in it (if it had any impact on current story lines, otherwise it would be a bit of a let down, I can write my own Kamahl fanfic or find some elsewhere). Some stories are still compelling, like the Gitrog Monster story, without a direct impact on the main storyline, but I think that is because we already know much of the context and less time has to spent on explaining the situation like with the random stories during the two EM weeks. We know that madness is spreading on Innistrad, we know what Cathars are and stuff, so it is easier to just jump into the story.
Characters teaming up is not what made BFZ bad. There were many other issues, the ending wasn't the greatest, writing could have been more compelling, too much time spent on uninteresting scenes, etc. Planeswalkers teaming up was not the issue, and from what it looks like so far, that isn't even going to be the standard from here on out. The cards also fell flat for a lot of reasons covered elsewhere, which certainly didn't help.
what is akoum and what happened that was retconned.
Looks like it was poorly received.
I have a full summary of the novel In the Teeth of Akoum and a discussion of the retcons in this article.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Sure. I was in a hurry and trying to give him a push start rather than ignoring him.
I still think that killing off of two Eldrazi titans with little effort was very lame, but I've come to see the Planeswalker team-up as LotR style fiction. Bringing together multiple characters (with different skills) in order to tell an overarching story line that will likely break down into smaller groups of sub-stories isn't a bad way of telling said story. Plus superheroes are very popular at the moment, financially WotC is betting on a good trend - though there are blokes like me who are disenfranchised by super-movies these days, many people still love 'em.
I'm still a bit rough about it, but I'm willing to see where it all goes. There are nitpicks I don't like, but there is always nitpicks in life. I'd rather just try to enjoy the ride then derail it all the time with my complaints. I am very glad that WotC publishes short stories on their official site; very much enjoyed reading the one between Nahiri and Sorin - the vampire is such an ass. Hope that bloodsucker gets a good walloping. I'd prefer it if Nahiri ended him, but alas the character is too popular for WotC to attempt such a move. More than likely Nahiri is the one going to bite* it.
* Yes, pun intended.
They were not killed off with little effort. The initial plan failed, and they almost consumed all of Zendikar. Only Chandra's hail mary allowed them to win. And she ended up crippled from channeling that much mana, in addition to the somewhat depleted mana of Zendikar.
I disagree myself. The defeat of both Eldrazi titans was shoehorned and terribly written/cliche. WotC was simply not willing to write a story if it came at the expense of either Zendikar or one of their new superheroes. The entire battle, capture and death by fire ending of the story was so lazily written and uninspired it makes me worried about the future of Magic stories.
If WotC had actually told a story, with real drama, sacrifice and depth I would not feel so heavily disappointed.
Imagine:
Ulamog, after a terrible battle is slain. But the cost was great; Gideon Jura, Hero of Planes, lost his life leading by example. His last efforts were used to keep the titan at bay as his allies sought their hardest to end it. Zendikar; during the battle Kozilek was left unabated to devour the rest of the plane and leave to devour more worlds. Thus the new 'Walkers victory came at a terrible price. Zendikar devastated beyond salvation, Ob Nixilis free and re-sparked, and Gideon Jura dead.
So now the three remaining allies must carry on the torch of Jura, seek out new allies, and hunt down the last two remaining titans whom threaten to devour the Blind Eternities themselves! Kiora will learn of the other Planeswalkers efforts and could be friend or foe; Ugin could tsk tsk; and Sorin can go off doing brooding emo-vampire things while Nahiri tries to end him.
That's just off the top of my head. I mean, WotC has a whole team of writers. I makes me sad.
This heavily implies that Ugin could have dealt with the Titans, which gives us reason to believe that if the other old walkers knew about this trick they could have dealt with them as well.
There's a reason he preferred a trap over death.
"You say 'learn from history,' but that does not mean 'learn the same bull***** the people in history learned alongside phrenology and alchemy.'" - The Blinking Spirit
Thanks thread was a good read.