This isn't really the place, but I DO think we'll see the promised tribal support. Circling back to the flavor side, just look at the non-Eldrazi art that's been spoiled. It's pretty clear geists are going to play a major role (Blessed Alliance) as are Zombies (Cemetary Recruitment).
Indeed. These seem two be the only two tribes that aren't affected by Emrakul's presence, being not live biological matter and all that.
Are the Innistrad vampires technically "alive"? Aren't they kind of undead as well?
This isn't really the place, but I DO think we'll see the promised tribal support. Circling back to the flavor side, just look at the non-Eldrazi art that's been spoiled. It's pretty clear geists are going to play a major role (Blessed Alliance) as are Zombies (Cemetary Recruitment).
Indeed. These seem two be the only two tribes that aren't affected by Emrakul's presence, being not live biological matter and all that.
Are the Innistrad vampires technically "alive"? Aren't they kind of undead as well?
Yes, they aren't the typical "undead vampire" thing. They are still alive, and still have souls. This is why Sorin was able to become a planeswalker. If he was an undead of some sort, he wouldn't have a soul. (not that he has a soul anyway... )
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"You say 'learn from history,' but that does not mean 'learn the same bull***** the people in history learned alongside phrenology and alchemy.'" - The Blinking Spirit
Well, given Avacyn recently turned on people it's not surprising. Guessing it's the symbol for Sigarda, if I recall right she has a connection to herons. Though given how bad everything is it seems kind of an odd time to design a new symbol. Maybe it's to help morale.
The Avacynian Collar has been replaced by a Gryff symbol.
Discuss.
I know this is probably asking for too much, but I hope Sigarda finds a way to save her sisters. Maybe creatures that aren't 100% eldrazi (Brisela still has the angel subtype) can be reverted to their previous forms once Emrakul is dealt with. I get them killing off Avacyn, but two of the other three as well? Not to mention the tease with the fourth sister.
In my dream version of what happens, after Emrakul is defeated, each sister takes domain over a single province. Sigarda takes Kessig, Gisela takes Stensia, Bruna takes Nephalia, and the fourth sister takes Gavony. They become more of a localized faith, rather than the central church of Avacyn.
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"You say 'learn from history,' but that does not mean 'learn the same bull***** the people in history learned alongside phrenology and alchemy.'" - The Blinking Spirit
Well from what I remember from AVC, the gryff is an Innistradian symbol of hope, but I can't for the life of me remember where I read that, so I guess that much is fitting seeing as the Order of Traft seems to be the only known hope left for the Innistradian people. Having said that, I feel like something more akin to either Traft, Sigarda or Thalia might me more fitting of an emblem. Then again.....again....the head of a gryff is the same crane like shape of a heron and Sigarda's scythe/staff, so maybe it's a tie in to both? If you look at the shape of the staff in Sigarda, Heron's Grace, the staff head is the same shape as the Gryff head.
Good catch Jay.
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Vorthos-player with way too much time on his hands and a love of thematic decks.
EDH - Yes, Each One is Named After a Song. I love tying music to my decks.
It looks like the heron is the new symbol of faith, judging by the crest and the shoulder pauldron.
The heron in the circle could easily represent the Innistrad silver moon. It is both Sigardas symbol as well as the likeness the Innistrad habitants see on the moon. The real moon, of pure silver, kinda the opposite of the "second false moon" Emrakul. The cathars opposing the avacynian church maybe gathering behind this new symbol.
The Avacynian Collar has been replaced by a Gryff symbol.
Discuss.
I know this is probably asking for too much, but I hope Sigarda finds a way to save her sisters. Maybe creatures that aren't 100% eldrazi (Brisela still has the angel subtype) can be reverted to their previous forms once Emrakul is dealt with. I get them killing off Avacyn, but two of the other three as well? Not to mention the tease with the fourth sister.
In my dream version of what happens, after Emrakul is defeated, each sister takes domain over a single province. Sigarda takes Kessig, Gisela takes Stensia, Bruna takes Nephalia, and the fourth sister takes Gavony. They become more of a localized faith, rather than the central church of Avacyn.
As we've discussed across the forums here, Glamdring, you know I wish the same could have happened with Avacyn. I feEl your pain. Unfortunately Jenna seemed pretty admant in the spoiler video on the mothership this week that the Emrakul transformation was a permanent one, and that they never had any long term plans for eit her Bruna or Gisela. Which really sucks when you realize that the characters outside of Xenagos that are always on the chopping block are mostly angelic. Elspeth was white too, so I'm just wondering if Creative has any desire to affect non-white characters on a more permanent basis? Having said that, please Dear God let Sigarda and especially Arlinn clear this block alive.
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Vorthos-player with way too much time on his hands and a love of thematic decks.
EDH - Yes, Each One is Named After a Song. I love tying music to my decks.
The Avacynian Collar has been replaced by a Gryff symbol.
Discuss.
I know this is probably asking for too much, but I hope Sigarda finds a way to save her sisters. Maybe creatures that aren't 100% eldrazi (Brisela still has the angel subtype) can be reverted to their previous forms once Emrakul is dealt with. I get them killing off Avacyn, but two of the other three as well? Not to mention the tease with the fourth sister.
In my dream version of what happens, after Emrakul is defeated, each sister takes domain over a single province. Sigarda takes Kessig, Gisela takes Stensia, Bruna takes Nephalia, and the fourth sister takes Gavony. They become more of a localized faith, rather than the central church of Avacyn.
As we've discussed across the forums here, Glamdring, you know I wish the same could have happened with Avacyn. I feEl your pain. Unfortunately Jenna seemed pretty admant in the spoiler video on the mothership this week that the Emrakul transformation was a permanent one, and that they never had any long term plans for eit her Bruna or Gisela. Which really sucks when you realize that the characters outside of Xenagos that are always on the chopping block are mostly angelic. Elspeth was white too, so I'm just wondering if Creative has any desire to affect non-white characters on a more permanent basis? Having said that, please Dear God let Sigarda and especially Arlinn clear this block alive.
There might be a loophole that could be used to save Bruna and Gisela (and even the deceased 4th sister) - when Demons on Innistrad die, the black mana in their being eventually reforms into a new demon, right? It's never been addressed, but shouldn't the same be true for Angels on Innistrad? Now, obviously that normally just mean new angels being born in the place of the sisters... but if Creative wanted it to happen, I'm sure Sigarda (especially if she becomes the new center of the faith for the plane) could reform her sisters out of the raw mana of their being. It just means that Brisela needs to be destroyed first.
And as the 4th sister... If Emrakul is defeated in some fashion and the cryptoliths destroyed, that should liberate A LOT of Innistrad's mana, which should spur the creation of new demons (and angels, if I am correct). Potentially, the mana that was once in the 4th sister's being could be part of that surge, allowing for her recreation as well. (Alternatively - Avacyn's destruction liberated a massive amount of white mana that could be used to create new angels.)
There might be a loophole that could be used to save Bruna and Gisela (and even the deceased 4th sister) - when Demons on Innistrad die, the black mana in their being eventually reforms into a new demon, right? It's never been addressed, but shouldn't the same be true for Angels on Innistrad? Now, obviously that normally just mean new angels being born in the place of the sisters... but if Creative wanted it to happen, I'm sure Sigarda (especially if she becomes the new center of the faith for the plane) could reform her sisters out of the raw mana of their being. It just means that Brisela needs to be destroyed first.
And as the 4th sister... If Emrakul is defeated in some fashion and the cryptoliths destroyed, that should liberate A LOT of Innistrad's mana, which should spur the creation of new demons (and angels, if I am correct). Potentially, the mana that was once in the 4th sister's being could be part of that surge, allowing for her recreation as well. (Alternatively - Avacyn's destruction liberated a massive amount of white mana that could be used to create new angels.)
We discussed this a few pages back. I came to the conclusion that though it is possible for angels to be reincarnated, it actually isn't the same angel. Tl;dr version: The mana that composes the angels reforms into a new being, but the memories and personality of the previous one are gone. The same thing with demons. Ormehnthal is Griselbrand reincarnated. He isn't actually Griselbrand, he's a new being. If the angels reincarnate, and that is a very doubtful if, they will be new beings. Three of the four original sisters will still be dead. I would love to be wrong on this, but Creative seems dead-set on screwing over every non-Gideon white character.
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"You say 'learn from history,' but that does not mean 'learn the same bull***** the people in history learned alongside phrenology and alchemy.'" - The Blinking Spirit
Three of the four original sisters will still be dead. I would love to be wrong on this, but Creative seems dead-set on screwing over every non-Gideon white character.
That seems to be the sad truth of it. What seems to bug me about the approach of Creative towards Innistrad overall is that they keep pushing things further and further towards the negative. Don't get me wrong: cosmic horror or Gothic horror requires overall terrible situations that seem hopeless and nihilistic, but when there seems to be only a push towards the nihilism and very little pushback towards and positive resolution FOR THE DENIZENS OF THE PLANE, I find that to be a problem. I get that returning to Avacyn Restored was unfeasible, despite my personal disagreement with that premise, but what was left after that set was a sense of resolution. Liliana killed Gris, Sorin could focus on the Eldrazi and Ugin and the people had their symbol of hope back. Even if Liliana prevails as many of us assume and Emrakul is somehow defeated - imprisoned, driven away or killed - Jenna said today essentially there's no going back for the plane. So is Sigarda and the Order alone enough to rally the survivors of the plane?
Maybe that is enough, but it'd be nice to see some kind of resolution for the citizens of a plane. Liliana will leave regardless of the outcome like Sorin. So will Jace. If Creative can pull it off to make the Order of Traft and Sigarda the new Beacon of light in Gothic horror world, that's great, but it still feels like Innistrad is gone as we knew it. Not sure if I alone am sad for that loss.
ADDENDUM: A resolution that makes sense. Technically BFZ ended on a positive note for the Zendikari, but it could have had the same effect if they didn't kill the Eldrazi and just drove them off, which was my big issue.
Vorthos-player with way too much time on his hands and a love of thematic decks.
EDH - Yes, Each One is Named After a Song. I love tying music to my decks.
The Avacynian Collar has been replaced by a Gryff symbol.
Discuss.
I know this is probably asking for too much, but I hope Sigarda finds a way to save her sisters. Maybe creatures that aren't 100% eldrazi (Brisela still has the angel subtype) can be reverted to their previous forms once Emrakul is dealt with. I get them killing off Avacyn, but two of the other three as well? Not to mention the tease with the fourth sister.
In my dream version of what happens, after Emrakul is defeated, each sister takes domain over a single province. Sigarda takes Kessig, Gisela takes Stensia, Bruna takes Nephalia, and the fourth sister takes Gavony. They become more of a localized faith, rather than the central church of Avacyn.
When Creative talked on the videos this morning, they made all of Emrakul's damage sound permanent. And part of Horror is that sometimes the damage is just not undone. I would not get your hopes up on Bruna and/or Gisela reverting back to their pre madness states.
Fun fact, the idea of Brisela is what finally get the Meld mechanic approved for experimental use since it was conceived apparently back in Scars block, which probably means that while Emrakul transforming the plane came first, the idea of Emrakul fusing the horrors came from Brisela, meaning it was inevitable from the get go.
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Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
That seems to be the sad truth of it. What seems to bug me about the approach of Creative towards Innistrad overall is that they keep pushing things further and further towards the negative. Don't get me wrong: cosmic horror or Gothic horror requires overall terrible situations that seem hopeless and nihilistic, but when there seems to be only a push towards the nihilism and very little pushback towards and positive resolution FOR THE DENIZENS OF THE PLANE, I find that to be a problem. I get that returning to Avacyn Restored was unfeasible, despite my personal disagreement with that premise, but what was left after that set was a sense of resolution. Liliana killed Gris, Sorin could focus on the Eldrazi and Ugin and the people had their symbol of hope back. Even if Liliana prevails as many of us assume and Emrakul is somehow defeated - imprisoned, driven away or killed - Jenna said today essentially there's no going back for the plane. So is Sigarda and the Order alone enough to rally the survivors of the plane?
Maybe that is enough, but it'd be nice to see some kind of resolution for the citizens of a plane. Liliana will leave regardless of the outcome like Sorin. So will Jace. If Creative can pull it off to make the Order of Traft and Sigarda the new Beacon of light in Gothic horror world, that's great, but it still feels like Innistrad is gone as we knew it. Not sure if I alone am sad for that loss.
No, I feel you. I came to the same realization over the course of the past week - Innistrad is gone. Zendikar is crippled, but it can recover. I'm having a hard time believing the same is going to be possible with Innistrad. To the best of my judgement, Innistrad is in at least as dire of a situation as New Phyrexia. My eye developed a twitch as Jenna said "There's no going back" with such glee. You do realize you just killed my favorite plane, right?
We discussed this a while ago, and we came to the conclusion that horror, as a genre and a theme, isn't just the darkness, it's the combination of both the darkness and the light. Horror isn't the things that go bump in the night, it's the frightened villagers running from the bumps in the night. It isn't the bloodthirsty vampire, it's the vampire's victims. If you keep pushing Innistrad further and further into nihilism, then it isn't horror plane anymore. It's just some Eldrazi infested hellscape.
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"You say 'learn from history,' but that does not mean 'learn the same bull***** the people in history learned alongside phrenology and alchemy.'" - The Blinking Spirit
Personally, I'm a fan of the "Brisela and Hanweir are the new Titans" theory. It almost completely invalidates the Gatewatch's Zendikar victory, and has pretty horrifying ramifications.
That seems to be the sad truth of it. What seems to bug me about the approach of Creative towards Innistrad overall is that they keep pushing things further and further towards the negative. Don't get me wrong: cosmic horror or Gothic horror requires overall terrible situations that seem hopeless and nihilistic, but when there seems to be only a push towards the nihilism and very little pushback towards and positive resolution FOR THE DENIZENS OF THE PLANE, I find that to be a problem. I get that returning to Avacyn Restored was unfeasible, despite my personal disagreement with that premise, but what was left after that set was a sense of resolution. Liliana killed Gris, Sorin could focus on the Eldrazi and Ugin and the people had their symbol of hope back. Even if Liliana prevails as many of us assume and Emrakul is somehow defeated - imprisoned, driven away or killed - Jenna said today essentially there's no going back for the plane. So is Sigarda and the Order alone enough to rally the survivors of the plane?
Maybe that is enough, but it'd be nice to see some kind of resolution for the citizens of a plane. Liliana will leave regardless of the outcome like Sorin. So will Jace. If Creative can pull it off to make the Order of Traft and Sigarda the new Beacon of light in Gothic horror world, that's great, but it still feels like Innistrad is gone as we knew it. Not sure if I alone am sad for that loss.
No, I feel you. I came to the same realization over the course of the past week - Innistrad is gone. Zendikar is crippled, but it can recover. I'm having a hard time believing the same is going to be possible with Innistrad. To the best of my judgement, Innistrad is in at least as dire of a situation as New Phyrexia. My eye developed a twitch as Jenna said "There's no going back" with such glee. You do realize you just killed my favorite plane, right?
We discussed this a while ago, and we came to the conclusion that horror, as a genre and a theme, isn't just the darkness, it's the combination of both the darkness and the light. Horror isn't the things that go bump in the night, it's the frightened villagers running from the bumps in the night. It isn't the bloodthirsty vampire, it's the vampire's victims. If you keep pushing Innistrad further and further into nihilism, then it isn't horror plane anymore. It's just some Eldrazi infested hellscape.
Amen, my friend, amen. I'm just hoping the order and Sigarda can fill that void somewhat, or Arlinn. Sadly I fear though my werewolf lady will never fully be trusted as a guardian like an angel would, though.
Personally, I'm a fan of the "Brisela and Hanweir are the new Titans" theory. It almost completely invalidates the Gatewatch's Zendikar victory, and has pretty horrifying ramifications.
It would also at least be some kind of impact for the loss of beloved characters, and oddly make Emrakul's admittedly odd powers make some more cohesive sense. She assimilates to bring beings into her collective, and wants to recreate her brothers, in a sense. At least make the deaths meaningful and the Gatewatch have to face some adversity.
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Vorthos-player with way too much time on his hands and a love of thematic decks.
EDH - Yes, Each One is Named After a Song. I love tying music to my decks.
No, I feel you. I came to the same realization over the course of the past week - Innistrad is gone. Zendikar is crippled, but it can recover. I'm having a hard time believing the same is going to be possible with Innistrad. To the best of my judgement, Innistrad is in at least as dire of a situation as New Phyrexia. My eye developed a twitch as Jenna said "There's no going back" with such glee. You do realize you just killed my favorite plane, right?
We discussed this a while ago, and we came to the conclusion that horror, as a genre and a theme, isn't just the darkness, it's the combination of both the darkness and the light. Horror isn't the things that go bump in the night, it's the frightened villagers running from the bumps in the night. It isn't the bloodthirsty vampire, it's the vampire's victims. If you keep pushing Innistrad further and further into nihilism, then it isn't horror plane anymore. It's just some Eldrazi infested hellscape.
I agree with you about both Horror as a genre in general and Innistrad in particular. Having said that, I'm withholding a bit of judgment because we don't yet know what the endgame for this block is in terms of the larger story. Is this plan for this to be the defeat that makes the Gatewatch realize they need more members and/or they'll never be able to save everyone, but need to step up their game to save whomever they can? (Am I the only one who sees the irony how during BFZ people were saying the Eldrazi should eat Zendikar or they have no credibility as villains in the future, but now that Emrakul forever altering Innistrad is a very real outcome, all of us - myself included - are hoping the heroes beat Emmy with zero further casualties?)
Is this about restoring the credibility of the Eldrazi as future threats? (As time has passed, I feel I understand better the Catch-22 Creative had with BFZ - they needed a crisis large enough to get a group of planeswalkers - lone wolves by nature - to band together to form the Avengers, but then also had to win against impossible odds to establish their credibility.)
Is this block about Liliana, Sorin, Arlinn, and/or Tamiyo either joining the Gatewatch or becoming their ongoing allies?
Is this block the ending of Nahiri's plot arc or just the beginning?
With the added notation that I don't see Wizards permanently destroying Innistrad's setting (for the same reason Maro recently said any future Ravnica block will not likely focus on the conflict with the Gateless), I think it's premature to write off "classic" Innistrad as a setting without knowing what the intended storytelling purpose is for Eldritch Moon. I love Cosmic Horror, but I believe Gothic Horror makes for a far more interesting ongoing setting (for exactly the reason you outlined above - the contrast of Light and Darkness. In true Cosmic Horror, there is no Light or Hope - just as study of how individuals and groups react to the revelation of their utter insignificance and the inevitability of their fates.)
This isn't really the place, but I DO think we'll see the promised tribal support. Circling back to the flavor side, just look at the non-Eldrazi art that's been spoiled. It's pretty clear geists are going to play a major role (Blessed Alliance) as are Zombies (Cemetary Recruitment).
Indeed. These seem two be the only two tribes that aren't affected by Emrakul's presence, being not live biological matter and all that.
Well, Lightning Axe did show us, that ghosts aren't completely unaffected, as there's clearly the Emrakul lettuce visible, and the Cryptolith Fragment seems to turn into a deathtouch aurora, so not really does the not living biological matter argument makes sense.
My eye developed a twitch as Jenna said "There's no going back" with such glee. You do realize you just killed my favorite plane, right?
Dawn Gryff is pretty explicitly a card from after Emrakul's attack. It strongly suggests that (as I've been saying all along) Innistrad isn't going to end up complete annihilated forever and ever. I mean there are still living gryffs and survivors in Videns parish. Clearly there is some hope on Innistrad when this is all over, similar to the hope left for Zendikar.
We discussed this a while ago, and we came to the conclusion that horror, as a genre and a theme, isn't just the darkness, it's the combination of both the darkness and the light.
If you keep pushing Innistrad further and further into nihilism, then it isn't horror plane anymore. It's just some Eldrazi infested hellscape.
This is also why GRIMDARK settings don't really work as intended. If there is no hope it stops being scary and transitions into either depressing or comical.
A GRIMDARK setting is one in which everything is DARK and GRIM all the time and everyone looks angry or constipated because there is NEVER any joy in the world only the GRIM DARKNESS of a hopeless universe.
Basically when you take dystopian as far to the extreme as possible.
Thalia's Lancers suggest we're getting a lot of legendaries this set, great for us Vorthoses Also Im pretty sure the Gryff/Heron is the symbol of Thalia's Order of St. Traft. It shows up on some cards in SOI
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
On the Bruna and Gisela new cards, I didn't noticed in the art of Bruna that one of her arms has already become a tentacled mess holding the point of her staff, while she holds the rest of the weapon with the other hand.
Also, both angels' art look like a big wide pic when put side by side, can't wait to get my hands on a higher resolution pic, even a wallpaper would be great there.
Are the Innistrad vampires technically "alive"? Aren't they kind of undead as well?
UR Mizzix of the Izmagnus ~~~ Build your own win-condition: Finite Spellslinging
UR Brudiclad, Telchor Engineer ~~~ We are the Borg. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own.
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic ~~~ A Guide to dying slowly
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose ~~~ Marchesa's undying Marionettes
RGW Mayael the Anima ~~~ All Hail the Big Chungus
GWU Chulane, Teller of Tales ~~~ Permanents Only ETB Shenanigans
BGU Sidisi, Brood Tyrant ~~~ Sidisi's Restless Servants
WUBRG The Ur-Dragon ~~~ Dragons eat your face
Yes, they aren't the typical "undead vampire" thing. They are still alive, and still have souls. This is why Sorin was able to become a planeswalker. If he was an undead of some sort, he wouldn't have a soul. (not that he has a soul anyway... )
"You say 'learn from history,' but that does not mean 'learn the same bull***** the people in history learned alongside phrenology and alchemy.'" - The Blinking Spirit
Discuss.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Standard - Some kind of control
Modern - UB Mill (casual)
EDH - Meren's Grave Shenanigans
I know this is probably asking for too much, but I hope Sigarda finds a way to save her sisters. Maybe creatures that aren't 100% eldrazi (Brisela still has the angel subtype) can be reverted to their previous forms once Emrakul is dealt with. I get them killing off Avacyn, but two of the other three as well? Not to mention the tease with the fourth sister.
In my dream version of what happens, after Emrakul is defeated, each sister takes domain over a single province. Sigarda takes Kessig, Gisela takes Stensia, Bruna takes Nephalia, and the fourth sister takes Gavony. They become more of a localized faith, rather than the central church of Avacyn.
"You say 'learn from history,' but that does not mean 'learn the same bull***** the people in history learned alongside phrenology and alchemy.'" - The Blinking Spirit
Good catch Jay.
EDH - Yes, Each One is Named After a Song. I love tying music to my decks.
B Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief B - Fear of the Dark
WG Sigarda, Heron's Grace WG - Strength in Numbers
RG Xenagos, God of Revels RG - Fullmoon (It's werewolves)
RW Archangel Avacyn // Avacyn, the Purifier RW - The End is Nigh
60 Card Kitchen Table Decks
WUB Avacyn, Spirit Ferrier
RG Arlinn Kord's Howlpack
The heron in the circle could easily represent the Innistrad silver moon. It is both Sigardas symbol as well as the likeness the Innistrad habitants see on the moon. The real moon, of pure silver, kinda the opposite of the "second false moon" Emrakul. The cathars opposing the avacynian church maybe gathering behind this new symbol.
UR Mizzix of the Izmagnus ~~~ Build your own win-condition: Finite Spellslinging
UR Brudiclad, Telchor Engineer ~~~ We are the Borg. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own.
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic ~~~ A Guide to dying slowly
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose ~~~ Marchesa's undying Marionettes
RGW Mayael the Anima ~~~ All Hail the Big Chungus
GWU Chulane, Teller of Tales ~~~ Permanents Only ETB Shenanigans
BGU Sidisi, Brood Tyrant ~~~ Sidisi's Restless Servants
WUBRG The Ur-Dragon ~~~ Dragons eat your face
As we've discussed across the forums here, Glamdring, you know I wish the same could have happened with Avacyn. I feEl your pain. Unfortunately Jenna seemed pretty admant in the spoiler video on the mothership this week that the Emrakul transformation was a permanent one, and that they never had any long term plans for eit her Bruna or Gisela. Which really sucks when you realize that the characters outside of Xenagos that are always on the chopping block are mostly angelic. Elspeth was white too, so I'm just wondering if Creative has any desire to affect non-white characters on a more permanent basis? Having said that, please Dear God let Sigarda and especially Arlinn clear this block alive.
EDH - Yes, Each One is Named After a Song. I love tying music to my decks.
B Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief B - Fear of the Dark
WG Sigarda, Heron's Grace WG - Strength in Numbers
RG Xenagos, God of Revels RG - Fullmoon (It's werewolves)
RW Archangel Avacyn // Avacyn, the Purifier RW - The End is Nigh
60 Card Kitchen Table Decks
WUB Avacyn, Spirit Ferrier
RG Arlinn Kord's Howlpack
There might be a loophole that could be used to save Bruna and Gisela (and even the deceased 4th sister) - when Demons on Innistrad die, the black mana in their being eventually reforms into a new demon, right? It's never been addressed, but shouldn't the same be true for Angels on Innistrad? Now, obviously that normally just mean new angels being born in the place of the sisters... but if Creative wanted it to happen, I'm sure Sigarda (especially if she becomes the new center of the faith for the plane) could reform her sisters out of the raw mana of their being. It just means that Brisela needs to be destroyed first.
And as the 4th sister... If Emrakul is defeated in some fashion and the cryptoliths destroyed, that should liberate A LOT of Innistrad's mana, which should spur the creation of new demons (and angels, if I am correct). Potentially, the mana that was once in the 4th sister's being could be part of that surge, allowing for her recreation as well. (Alternatively - Avacyn's destruction liberated a massive amount of white mana that could be used to create new angels.)
We discussed this a few pages back. I came to the conclusion that though it is possible for angels to be reincarnated, it actually isn't the same angel. Tl;dr version: The mana that composes the angels reforms into a new being, but the memories and personality of the previous one are gone. The same thing with demons. Ormehnthal is Griselbrand reincarnated. He isn't actually Griselbrand, he's a new being. If the angels reincarnate, and that is a very doubtful if, they will be new beings. Three of the four original sisters will still be dead. I would love to be wrong on this, but Creative seems dead-set on screwing over every non-Gideon white character.
"You say 'learn from history,' but that does not mean 'learn the same bull***** the people in history learned alongside phrenology and alchemy.'" - The Blinking Spirit
That seems to be the sad truth of it. What seems to bug me about the approach of Creative towards Innistrad overall is that they keep pushing things further and further towards the negative. Don't get me wrong: cosmic horror or Gothic horror requires overall terrible situations that seem hopeless and nihilistic, but when there seems to be only a push towards the nihilism and very little pushback towards and positive resolution FOR THE DENIZENS OF THE PLANE, I find that to be a problem. I get that returning to Avacyn Restored was unfeasible, despite my personal disagreement with that premise, but what was left after that set was a sense of resolution. Liliana killed Gris, Sorin could focus on the Eldrazi and Ugin and the people had their symbol of hope back. Even if Liliana prevails as many of us assume and Emrakul is somehow defeated - imprisoned, driven away or killed - Jenna said today essentially there's no going back for the plane. So is Sigarda and the Order alone enough to rally the survivors of the plane?
Maybe that is enough, but it'd be nice to see some kind of resolution for the citizens of a plane. Liliana will leave regardless of the outcome like Sorin. So will Jace. If Creative can pull it off to make the Order of Traft and Sigarda the new Beacon of light in Gothic horror world, that's great, but it still feels like Innistrad is gone as we knew it. Not sure if I alone am sad for that loss.
ADDENDUM: A resolution that makes sense. Technically BFZ ended on a positive note for the Zendikari, but it could have had the same effect if they didn't kill the Eldrazi and just drove them off, which was my big issue.
EDH - Yes, Each One is Named After a Song. I love tying music to my decks.
B Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief B - Fear of the Dark
WG Sigarda, Heron's Grace WG - Strength in Numbers
RG Xenagos, God of Revels RG - Fullmoon (It's werewolves)
RW Archangel Avacyn // Avacyn, the Purifier RW - The End is Nigh
60 Card Kitchen Table Decks
WUB Avacyn, Spirit Ferrier
RG Arlinn Kord's Howlpack
When Creative talked on the videos this morning, they made all of Emrakul's damage sound permanent. And part of Horror is that sometimes the damage is just not undone. I would not get your hopes up on Bruna and/or Gisela reverting back to their pre madness states.
Fun fact, the idea of Brisela is what finally get the Meld mechanic approved for experimental use since it was conceived apparently back in Scars block, which probably means that while Emrakul transforming the plane came first, the idea of Emrakul fusing the horrors came from Brisela, meaning it was inevitable from the get go.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
No, I feel you. I came to the same realization over the course of the past week - Innistrad is gone. Zendikar is crippled, but it can recover. I'm having a hard time believing the same is going to be possible with Innistrad. To the best of my judgement, Innistrad is in at least as dire of a situation as New Phyrexia. My eye developed a twitch as Jenna said "There's no going back" with such glee. You do realize you just killed my favorite plane, right?
We discussed this a while ago, and we came to the conclusion that horror, as a genre and a theme, isn't just the darkness, it's the combination of both the darkness and the light. Horror isn't the things that go bump in the night, it's the frightened villagers running from the bumps in the night. It isn't the bloodthirsty vampire, it's the vampire's victims. If you keep pushing Innistrad further and further into nihilism, then it isn't horror plane anymore. It's just some Eldrazi infested hellscape.
"You say 'learn from history,' but that does not mean 'learn the same bull***** the people in history learned alongside phrenology and alchemy.'" - The Blinking Spirit
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[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Amen, my friend, amen. I'm just hoping the order and Sigarda can fill that void somewhat, or Arlinn. Sadly I fear though my werewolf lady will never fully be trusted as a guardian like an angel would, though.
It would also at least be some kind of impact for the loss of beloved characters, and oddly make Emrakul's admittedly odd powers make some more cohesive sense. She assimilates to bring beings into her collective, and wants to recreate her brothers, in a sense. At least make the deaths meaningful and the Gatewatch have to face some adversity.
EDH - Yes, Each One is Named After a Song. I love tying music to my decks.
B Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief B - Fear of the Dark
WG Sigarda, Heron's Grace WG - Strength in Numbers
RG Xenagos, God of Revels RG - Fullmoon (It's werewolves)
RW Archangel Avacyn // Avacyn, the Purifier RW - The End is Nigh
60 Card Kitchen Table Decks
WUB Avacyn, Spirit Ferrier
RG Arlinn Kord's Howlpack
I agree with you about both Horror as a genre in general and Innistrad in particular. Having said that, I'm withholding a bit of judgment because we don't yet know what the endgame for this block is in terms of the larger story. Is this plan for this to be the defeat that makes the Gatewatch realize they need more members and/or they'll never be able to save everyone, but need to step up their game to save whomever they can? (Am I the only one who sees the irony how during BFZ people were saying the Eldrazi should eat Zendikar or they have no credibility as villains in the future, but now that Emrakul forever altering Innistrad is a very real outcome, all of us - myself included - are hoping the heroes beat Emmy with zero further casualties?)
Is this about restoring the credibility of the Eldrazi as future threats? (As time has passed, I feel I understand better the Catch-22 Creative had with BFZ - they needed a crisis large enough to get a group of planeswalkers - lone wolves by nature - to band together to form the Avengers, but then also had to win against impossible odds to establish their credibility.)
Is this block about Liliana, Sorin, Arlinn, and/or Tamiyo either joining the Gatewatch or becoming their ongoing allies?
Is this block the ending of Nahiri's plot arc or just the beginning?
With the added notation that I don't see Wizards permanently destroying Innistrad's setting (for the same reason Maro recently said any future Ravnica block will not likely focus on the conflict with the Gateless), I think it's premature to write off "classic" Innistrad as a setting without knowing what the intended storytelling purpose is for Eldritch Moon. I love Cosmic Horror, but I believe Gothic Horror makes for a far more interesting ongoing setting (for exactly the reason you outlined above - the contrast of Light and Darkness. In true Cosmic Horror, there is no Light or Hope - just as study of how individuals and groups react to the revelation of their utter insignificance and the inevitability of their fates.)
Dawn Gryff is pretty explicitly a card from after Emrakul's attack. It strongly suggests that (as I've been saying all along) Innistrad isn't going to end up complete annihilated forever and ever. I mean there are still living gryffs and survivors in Videns parish. Clearly there is some hope on Innistrad when this is all over, similar to the hope left for Zendikar.
This is also why GRIMDARK settings don't really work as intended. If there is no hope it stops being scary and transitions into either depressing or comical.
That would be really cool.
A GRIMDARK setting is one in which everything is DARK and GRIM all the time and everyone looks angry or constipated because there is NEVER any joy in the world only the GRIM DARKNESS of a hopeless universe.
Basically when you take dystopian as far to the extreme as possible.
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Also, both angels' art look like a big wide pic when put side by side, can't wait to get my hands on a higher resolution pic, even a wallpaper would be great there.
Fan of Both old and new Slivers (But the new ones are still better anyway)
C Call of Emrakul - G vs R DD: Elves vs. Goblins - W vs B DD: Divine vs. Demonic - WUB Esper Artifice - RGW Aura Dancers
WUBRG Wrath of the Reaper King - WB Men of Faith - B Mercenaries - UB Phyrexian Assault 2.0 - WU Artifacts of Empires
BR Skeleton Warriors - RG Night of The Howlpack - B Bog Murderers - BR Eldrazi Assault - BGU Ulamog's Swarm
Would be epic to see a Demon fighting off an eldrazi, specially Ormendahl, Profane Prince vs Brisela, Voice of Nightmares. This would be sick and ironic at the sametime