One final note, Chandra was designed long before any part of Kaladesh, they literally made the plane to be her birthplace so when you talk about shoehorning her in, its backwards.
Yes, Kaladesh is very diverse, but I think you missed the point. It's not about the diversity. It's that Chandra was not designed not to be biracial. Her concepts, and some early art, all show her as a freckled Irish looking girl. Wizards had a long history of co-opting Indian names for their white, or non-human characters. Like, many of the pre-mending characters you might think of, including Jaya (Chandra's spiritual successor), so there was no reason to think this was anything different, and makes me suspicious of the idea that this was always their plan for her.
Apparently my thoughts didn't make it through clear. I doubt that any part of Origins was part of some 'plan' from the get go. They obviously just looked at what they had said about their characters and decided to make worlds based what they had been said before. For Chandra that was more or less only the linguistic origin's of her name and her attire. I doubt they care that much about the linguistic origins of names when naming a single character but when you show a world where that name should have come up they have to focus more.
I would also add Caustic Caterpillar and Woodland Bellower. Woodland Bellower isn't explicitly confirmed, but in Fire Logic it describes the beasts Chandra encounters as furry and horned (which match both the tiger beast and Woodland Bellower), and more tellowing as 'Woodland' beasts that bellow.
If anyone is interested, I've been doing almost weekly analysis on Kaladesh:
I would also add Caustic Caterpillar and Woodland Bellower. Woodland Bellower isn't explicitly confirmed, but in Fire Logic it describes the beasts Chandra encounters as furry and horned (which match both the tiger beast and Woodland Bellower), and more tellowing as 'Woodland' beasts that bellow.
If anyone is interested, I've been doing almost weekly analysis on Kaladesh:
I don't really see an issue with Chandra's appearance. The art on Pia and Kiran's card showed that Pia was Indian and Kiran was European (or more precisely, whatever the Kaladesh equivalent of those ethnic groups would be). Chandra simply took after her father in terms of appearance, that's why she seems to be European too.
Do I need to be the one to point out that genetics do not have to work the same way in the magic universe as they do in ours?
Can you provide a citation for this? An example of genetics differing forum ours without the influence of some wizard's tinkering? A general rule with worldbuilding is to assume that elements of the fictional world match ours unless they are explicitly noted to be different. Assume everyone uses iron crafted swords, unless a character mentions they are all made of silver. Assume the world's Gravity is the same as Earth's, unless the author tells you it's not.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Vorthos Cartography - Check out my completed maps of Zendikar and Innistrad!
"You say 'learn from history,' but that does not mean 'learn the same bull***** the people in history learned alongside phrenology and alchemy.'" - The Blinking Spirit
Can you provide a citation for this? An example of genetics differing forum ours without the influence of some wizard's tinkering? A general rule with worldbuilding is to assume that elements of the fictional world match ours unless they are explicitly noted to be different. Assume everyone uses iron crafted swords, unless a character mentions they are all made of silver. Assume the world's Gravity is the same as Earth's, unless the author tells you it's not.
I didn't say it is I just said it could be. My point was that they could never explain why Chandra looks Irish while her parents look Indian and there's really no complaint to be made.
I do think Tezzeret will be present on the plane, and maybe having a bigger role in the revolt. The antagonist that he is, maybe influencing the council to strike down the peasants? And Chandra as revolt champion for the small people?
I really like to think that the revolt is tied to the killing of the Eldrazi titans on Zendikar though, to already prove Ugin right, but maybe that will happen later with a different impact anyway.
I do think Tezzeret will be present on the plane, and maybe having a bigger role in the revolt. The antagonist that he is, maybe influencing the council to strike down the peasants? And Chandra as revolt champion for the small people?
I really like to think that the revolt is tied to the killing of the Eldrazi titans on Zendikar though, to already prove Ugin right, but maybe that will happen later with a different impact anyway.
Yeah, that's not an unreasonable conclusion.
My alternate theory is that this is the first plane New Phyrexia invades. Old Phyrexia liked to set up and take advantage of civil wars, and we could see a repeat of that here.
The parallels between the Thran and Kaladesh are pretty strong, too.
I'm OFF THE CHARTS EXCITED HERE, people. For the last three weeks, I've been tweeting stuff on Magic's Indian Influences and what various character's names translate to. My wife is Indian, and Kaladesh is one of my favorite settings in all of Magic.
I just read this first and I'm responding to it, I have not yet paged through every post in the five pages of this forum.
Kaladesh reminds me of Kadesh, in ancient history. I think it would be in today's Syria, or thereabouts. So is this confirmed to be India themed, or is it, like Tarkir, covering a general geographic area (Like from Syria through to India)?
It's likely representative of South Asian and Persia as a whole, since they share similar histories. The language use is pure Hindi, though. So it makes the focus clear. It's not a top down South Asian set, however.
I do think Tezzeret will be present on the plane, and maybe having a bigger role in the revolt. The antagonist that he is, maybe influencing the council to strike down the peasants? And Chandra as revolt champion for the small people?
I really like to think that the revolt is tied to the killing of the Eldrazi titans on Zendikar though, to already prove Ugin right, but maybe that will happen later with a different impact anyway.
Considering they already wasted Emerakul on Innistrad I would hope they wait a year or two before tugging that plot thread.
I do think Tezzeret will be present on the plane, and maybe having a bigger role in the revolt. The antagonist that he is, maybe influencing the council to strike down the peasants? And Chandra as revolt champion for the small people?
I really like to think that the revolt is tied to the killing of the Eldrazi titans on Zendikar though, to already prove Ugin right, but maybe that will happen later with a different impact anyway.
Considering they already wasted Emerakul on Innistrad I would hope they wait a year or two before tugging that plot thread.
They've said that they're consciously trying to tie the blocks together in a consistent narrative, so I imagine Eldritch Moon will in some lead into Kaladesh, similarly to how OGW led to SOI. Although I can't imagine how at the moment.
They've said that they're consciously trying to tie the blocks together in a consistent narrative, so I imagine Eldritch Moon will in some lead into Kaladesh, similarly to how OGW led to SOI. Although I can't imagine how at the moment.
Chandra is on Innistrad, it's not that hard to think of a super friends meeting on how to predeed further, after the EMN threat has been delt with.
They've said that they're consciously trying to tie the blocks together in a consistent narrative, so I imagine Eldritch Moon will in some lead into Kaladesh, similarly to how OGW led to SOI. Although I can't imagine how at the moment.
Chandra is on Innistrad, it's not that hard to think of a super friends meeting on how to predeed further, after the EMN threat has been delt with.
What does Liliana want? What would she ask for in exchange for her help?
Considering how little we know about Kaladesh outside of Ghirapur the lead in could be almost anything. I mean it could be that Chandra says "Hey guys let's take a break after all that. I know a mean hot spring on a particular plane." Then they get there and everything is going to *****.
They've said that they're consciously trying to tie the blocks together in a consistent narrative, so I imagine Eldritch Moon will in some lead into Kaladesh, similarly to how OGW led to SOI. Although I can't imagine how at the moment.
Chandra is on Innistrad, it's not that hard to think of a super friends meeting on how to predeed further, after the EMN threat has been delt with.
What does Liliana want? What would she ask for in exchange for her help?
Who knows of a place that might help?
I can see this angle playing out in two ways. 1) One of Liliana's demons is on Kaladesh, or 2) Kaladesh is notable for its proficiency with artifacts. Perhaps they can do something about the Chain-Veil, which Liliana undoubtedly uses to fight Emrakul.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Vorthos Cartography - Check out my completed maps of Zendikar and Innistrad!
"You say 'learn from history,' but that does not mean 'learn the same bull***** the people in history learned alongside phrenology and alchemy.'" - The Blinking Spirit
If they are trying to tie the blocks together story wise, I think it is possible that kaladesh being a plane that doesn't want to use magic, being less mana rich (or maybe more because they aren't using it) may tie to nahiri using mana to summon Emrakul. Kind of like a "hey lets go where eldrazi aren't likely to go" type of thing. And someone mentioned earlier that saheeli rai means "friend of the King" which would make me honestly suspect she is a villain and UW rather than RU, and probably a artifact type planeswalker. I know red blue did the artifact thing in origins version of kaladesh but I think that will change for the actual block. Story wise, in my mind, it makes more sense for red to be more spell heavy than artifact based, to mimic Chandra and her personality. It could be way of base here though
I can see this angle playing out in two ways. 1) One of Liliana's demons is on Kaladesh, or 2) Kaladesh is notable for its proficiency with artifacts. Perhaps they can do something about the Chain-Veil, which Liliana undoubtedly uses to fight Emrakul.
This makes the most sense to me. Liliana uses the Chain Veil in order to defeat Emrakul, at which point it overtakes her. It's anti-magic countermeasures are too strong for the Gatewhatch to overcome. Tamiyo happens to know that on Khaladesh, people use raw Aether instead of magic in their artifice, so that might get around the anti-magic wards of the chain veil. Jace remains on Innistrad with Tamiyo to fight the Chain Veil's influence on Liliana in order to contain her while Chandra, being familiar with the plane, takes Gideon and perhaps Nissa to Khaladesh to find a solution. Perhaps Nahiri and/or Sorin end up joining the Gatewatch and go to Kaladesh as well.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The secret to enjoyable Commander games is not winning first, but losing last.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
I really hope the entire gatewatch doesnt show up, just Chandra and maybe one more. (Gideon, Liliana, and Nissa would all work)
Chandra and Nissa share a close bond after the superspell that killed the titans, and they would make good traveling partners. Nissa is such a contrast on a world-magic devoid plane, it would be very interesting
Gideon would probably fit in most, and he functions much better without a world-ending catastrophe looming. Great for an "Aether revolt" setting
And Liliana would be an interesting contrast, and fit in well story wise with the chain veil, but we just got a lili-centric block so Im not sure she'd be ideal.
Just please, not jace.
I share a similar sentiment. I do want to see more blocks focusing on a single character. Hopefully ENM is a special circumstance resulting from Emrakul, and they won't find it necessary to bring on all five members each block.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Vorthos Cartography - Check out my completed maps of Zendikar and Innistrad!
"You say 'learn from history,' but that does not mean 'learn the same bull***** the people in history learned alongside phrenology and alchemy.'" - The Blinking Spirit
I don't think every set from here on out will have all of the Gatewatch. I think this one was meant to be kind of special and in your face, while future ones won't be as bad. They'll always have at least one Gatewatch member, but that's not as bad.
I don't think every set from here on out will have all of the Gatewatch. I think this one was meant to be kind of special and in your face, while future ones won't be as bad. They'll always have at least one Gatewatch member, but that's not as bad.
Yeah. This is the Avengers equivalent for MTG. We'll go back to single/double character stories, if only so that they can market "Everyone is in this block!" as a big deal in the future.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Cyme we inne frið, fram the grip of deaþ to lif inne ðis smylte land.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
If anyone is interested, I've been doing almost weekly analysis on Kaladesh:
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Can you provide a citation for this? An example of genetics differing forum ours without the influence of some wizard's tinkering? A general rule with worldbuilding is to assume that elements of the fictional world match ours unless they are explicitly noted to be different. Assume everyone uses iron crafted swords, unless a character mentions they are all made of silver. Assume the world's Gravity is the same as Earth's, unless the author tells you it's not.
"You say 'learn from history,' but that does not mean 'learn the same bull***** the people in history learned alongside phrenology and alchemy.'" - The Blinking Spirit
I didn't say it is I just said it could be. My point was that they could never explain why Chandra looks Irish while her parents look Indian and there's really no complaint to be made.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
I really like to think that the revolt is tied to the killing of the Eldrazi titans on Zendikar though, to already prove Ugin right, but maybe that will happen later with a different impact anyway.
My alternate theory is that this is the first plane New Phyrexia invades. Old Phyrexia liked to set up and take advantage of civil wars, and we could see a repeat of that here.
The parallels between the Thran and Kaladesh are pretty strong, too.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
I just read this first and I'm responding to it, I have not yet paged through every post in the five pages of this forum.
Kaladesh reminds me of Kadesh, in ancient history. I think it would be in today's Syria, or thereabouts. So is this confirmed to be India themed, or is it, like Tarkir, covering a general geographic area (Like from Syria through to India)?
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Considering they already wasted Emerakul on Innistrad I would hope they wait a year or two before tugging that plot thread.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
They've said that they're consciously trying to tie the blocks together in a consistent narrative, so I imagine Eldritch Moon will in some lead into Kaladesh, similarly to how OGW led to SOI. Although I can't imagine how at the moment.
Who knows of a place that might help?
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
I can see this angle playing out in two ways. 1) One of Liliana's demons is on Kaladesh, or 2) Kaladesh is notable for its proficiency with artifacts. Perhaps they can do something about the Chain-Veil, which Liliana undoubtedly uses to fight Emrakul.
"You say 'learn from history,' but that does not mean 'learn the same bull***** the people in history learned alongside phrenology and alchemy.'" - The Blinking Spirit
This makes the most sense to me. Liliana uses the Chain Veil in order to defeat Emrakul, at which point it overtakes her. It's anti-magic countermeasures are too strong for the Gatewhatch to overcome. Tamiyo happens to know that on Khaladesh, people use raw Aether instead of magic in their artifice, so that might get around the anti-magic wards of the chain veil. Jace remains on Innistrad with Tamiyo to fight the Chain Veil's influence on Liliana in order to contain her while Chandra, being familiar with the plane, takes Gideon and perhaps Nissa to Khaladesh to find a solution. Perhaps Nahiri and/or Sorin end up joining the Gatewatch and go to Kaladesh as well.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
What does she want? Help with the Chain Veil.
Who knows of place that might help? Chandra.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Chandra and Nissa share a close bond after the superspell that killed the titans, and they would make good traveling partners. Nissa is such a contrast on a world-magic devoid plane, it would be very interesting
Gideon would probably fit in most, and he functions much better without a world-ending catastrophe looming. Great for an "Aether revolt" setting
And Liliana would be an interesting contrast, and fit in well story wise with the chain veil, but we just got a lili-centric block so Im not sure she'd be ideal.
Just please, not jace.
"You say 'learn from history,' but that does not mean 'learn the same bull***** the people in history learned alongside phrenology and alchemy.'" - The Blinking Spirit
Yeah. This is the Avengers equivalent for MTG. We'll go back to single/double character stories, if only so that they can market "Everyone is in this block!" as a big deal in the future.