Was curious and I'm having a surprisingly hard time finding a direct list or consensus of the Hirearchy of the various beings in magic. I've read various storylines and can guess to some degree... But an answer would be nice.
I know there's elder dragons, gods, planeswalkers, ancient beings, Angels, demons, humans, goblins, what not... And I'm sure which plane dictates to some degree different levels of hierarchy... But what would be a good estimate?
My biggest issue is I don't think I'm fully understanding the concept of gods in this game. Some seem similar to Greek gods, which can be eh, but then you have say Karona who was in sentient persona of magic itself (still confused on that one).
And of course there's planeswalkers. To me they seem like OP human(oid) "Heros" who can planeswalk and some age slowly, does this rival gods? Can one just pimp slap the other?
Or say an eldrazi Titan, Bolas and Karona walk into a bar, what happens on that little encounter?
Ha! There are... a lot of issues with trying to establish a strict hierarchy, to say the least. We've never seen many of them interact, for example. You can check out this thread for a lot of similar discussion. If you want to put it in terms of a strict 'hierarchy', you'd need to break it down into exactly what that means. I think it's most useful to talk about it like this (this is based on my planeswalker strength tiers).
Normal: This is your average 1/1 creature. A random farmer picking up a sword for the first time, or an unskilled fighter like a random goblin. Most creatures in the multiverse fall into this range. These creatures can, maybe, defeat other normals.
Average: This is 'Average' for the more interesting beings in the mutliverse. These are the the planeswalkers who are basically no stronger than your average mage, or the recently ascended. Domri Rade is the poster child for this tier. Tezzeret without his arm or gadgets is this, too. Many elves would fit here, as would stronger creatures and most legendary creatures. These creatures can most likely defeat other normals.
Special: These are the planeswalkers with a special power that puts them above your average mage. Most of our recurring cast, including the Gatewatch, fall into this category. Weaker Angels, Demons, Dragons and the like would fit here too. Many legendary creatures would be here as well. These creatures could beat your normal or average creatures pretty reliably, and probably many at once.
Exceptional: These are the walkers who have a very conditional level of strength that makes them stronger than the special planeswalkers, so long as their conditions are met. Usually this is an item but it can also be a place. They can be as powerful, or more so, than Ancients with this power. Nissa, while on Zendikar fits here, as does Kiora with the Bident. The Theros Gods would fit here, because they're extremely powerful but only in very specific ways. The lower-e elder dragons from Tarkir fit here, but mostly because they're also in command of a clan which vastly increases their power. These creatures, with their power conditions met, can defeat armies of normals and averages, and a lot of specials.
Ancient: These are the unique planeswalkers or former oldwalkers that give them a level of power unseen among the neowalkers, and that it would generally take several Special walkers or very specific Exceptional Walkers to beat. These are beings with the power (or had the power once) to devastate planes, destroy armies, etc. Nicol Bolas, Ugin, Sorin and Karn all fall into this category. The capital-E Elder Dragons fit in here, as does Karona (don't... think to much about her), Myojin of Night's Reach, Yawgmoth, Oldwalkers, and the Titans. Basically, this is any being with the power of an oldwalker or so strong they can move between planes without needing a spark.
'Gods' in magic are a loose concept. Essentially, it's a term used to describe any being with extreme levels of power. The 'Ancient' group could have been considered gods at any point. The gods of Theros are specifically enchantments with a lot of power.
Basically, 'power' can mean a LOT of things so if you're talking about simply capacity for violence, the above will do.
Thanks for the quick replies. I thought it was among those lines but maybe I missed something lol.
A quick side question if you don't mind, as it's the question to lead to this thread in a way. I mainly play edh and made a pure chaos deck, 5c. Originally it was Karona cause she seemed like the perfect mascot of crazy magic. Then I switched to child of alara, cause she's a damn result of alara splitting. Is that correct? Which do you think match chaos better (just lore wise)
Thanks for the quick replies. I thought it was among those lines but maybe I missed something lol.
A quick side question if you don't mind, as it's the question to lead to this thread in a way. I mainly play edh and made a pure chaos deck, 5c. Originally it was Karona cause she seemed like the perfect mascot of crazy magic. Then I switched to child of alara, cause she's a damn result of alara splitting. Is that correct? Which do you think match chaos better (just lore wise)
The child is actually from the shards uniting not splitting. Its flavor text and the set it comes in are the only lore we get on it so all we know is its birthed from the conflux which is where the five shards converged. The chaotic mana was what Bolas ate to regain a portion of his old power. In the name of chaos the child fits better than Karona because one was borne form the chaotic fusion of planar shards and the other from a convergence of all of a plane's mana under a single consciousness.
Ha! There are... a lot of issues with trying to establish a strict hierarchy, to say the least. We've never seen many of them interact, for example. You can check out this thread for a lot of similar discussion. If you want to put it in terms of a strict 'hierarchy', you'd need to break it down into exactly what that means. I think it's most useful to talk about it like this (this is based on my planeswalker strength tiers).
Normal: This is your average 1/1 creature. A random farmer picking up a sword for the first time, or an unskilled fighter like a random goblin. Most creatures in the multiverse fall into this range. These creatures can, maybe, defeat other normals.
Average: This is 'Average' for the more interesting beings in the mutliverse. These are the the planeswalkers who are basically no stronger than your average mage, or the recently ascended. Domri Rade is the poster child for this tier. Tezzeret without his arm or gadgets is this, too. Many elves would fit here, as would stronger creatures and most legendary creatures. These creatures can most likely defeat other normals.
Special: These are the planeswalkers with a special power that puts them above your average mage. Most of our recurring cast, including the Gatewatch, fall into this category. Weaker Angels, Demons, Dragons and the like would fit here too. Many legendary creatures would be here as well. These creatures could beat your normal or average creatures pretty reliably, and probably many at once.
Exceptional: These are the walkers who have a very conditional level of strength that makes them stronger than the special planeswalkers, so long as their conditions are met. Usually this is an item but it can also be a place. They can be as powerful, or more so, than Ancients with this power. Nissa, while on Zendikar fits here, as does Kiora with the Bident. The Theros Gods would fit here, because they're extremely powerful but only in very specific ways. The lower-e elder dragons from Tarkir fit here, but mostly because they're also in command of a clan which vastly increases their power. These creatures, with their power conditions met, can defeat armies of normals and averages, and a lot of specials.
Ancient: These are the unique planeswalkers or former oldwalkers that give them a level of power unseen among the neowalkers, and that it would generally take several Special walkers or very specific Exceptional Walkers to beat. These are beings with the power (or had the power once) to devastate planes, destroy armies, etc. Nicol Bolas, Ugin, Sorin and Karn all fall into this category. The capital-E Elder Dragons fit in here, as does Karona (don't... think to much about her), Myojin of Night's Reach, Yawgmoth, Oldwalkers, and the Titans. Basically, this is any being with the power of an oldwalker or so strong they can move between planes without needing a spark.
'Gods' in magic are a loose concept. Essentially, it's a term used to describe any being with extreme levels of power. The 'Ancient' group could have been considered gods at any point. The gods of Theros are specifically enchantments with a lot of power.
Basically, 'power' can mean a LOT of things so if you're talking about simply capacity for violence, the above will do.
Good reference sheet. I'd say the Theros gods are in the Ancient category while on Theros, but are in the Exceptional category overall, since they're conditional. Same with Avacyn. I don't think any pre-mending planes walker, even ones who were once Oldwalkers (except perhaps Bolas) can handle a plane's big bads on their own turf.
I know there's elder dragons, gods, planeswalkers, ancient beings, Angels, demons, humans, goblins, what not... And I'm sure which plane dictates to some degree different levels of hierarchy... But what would be a good estimate?
My biggest issue is I don't think I'm fully understanding the concept of gods in this game. Some seem similar to Greek gods, which can be eh, but then you have say Karona who was in sentient persona of magic itself (still confused on that one).
And of course there's planeswalkers. To me they seem like OP human(oid) "Heros" who can planeswalk and some age slowly, does this rival gods? Can one just pimp slap the other?
Or say an eldrazi Titan, Bolas and Karona walk into a bar, what happens on that little encounter?
Thank you
Normal: This is your average 1/1 creature. A random farmer picking up a sword for the first time, or an unskilled fighter like a random goblin. Most creatures in the multiverse fall into this range. These creatures can, maybe, defeat other normals.
Average: This is 'Average' for the more interesting beings in the mutliverse. These are the the planeswalkers who are basically no stronger than your average mage, or the recently ascended. Domri Rade is the poster child for this tier. Tezzeret without his arm or gadgets is this, too. Many elves would fit here, as would stronger creatures and most legendary creatures. These creatures can most likely defeat other normals.
Special: These are the planeswalkers with a special power that puts them above your average mage. Most of our recurring cast, including the Gatewatch, fall into this category. Weaker Angels, Demons, Dragons and the like would fit here too. Many legendary creatures would be here as well. These creatures could beat your normal or average creatures pretty reliably, and probably many at once.
Exceptional: These are the walkers who have a very conditional level of strength that makes them stronger than the special planeswalkers, so long as their conditions are met. Usually this is an item but it can also be a place. They can be as powerful, or more so, than Ancients with this power. Nissa, while on Zendikar fits here, as does Kiora with the Bident. The Theros Gods would fit here, because they're extremely powerful but only in very specific ways. The lower-e elder dragons from Tarkir fit here, but mostly because they're also in command of a clan which vastly increases their power. These creatures, with their power conditions met, can defeat armies of normals and averages, and a lot of specials.
Ancient: These are the unique planeswalkers or former oldwalkers that give them a level of power unseen among the neowalkers, and that it would generally take several Special walkers or very specific Exceptional Walkers to beat. These are beings with the power (or had the power once) to devastate planes, destroy armies, etc. Nicol Bolas, Ugin, Sorin and Karn all fall into this category. The capital-E Elder Dragons fit in here, as does Karona (don't... think to much about her), Myojin of Night's Reach, Yawgmoth, Oldwalkers, and the Titans. Basically, this is any being with the power of an oldwalker or so strong they can move between planes without needing a spark.
'Gods' in magic are a loose concept. Essentially, it's a term used to describe any being with extreme levels of power. The 'Ancient' group could have been considered gods at any point. The gods of Theros are specifically enchantments with a lot of power.
Basically, 'power' can mean a LOT of things so if you're talking about simply capacity for violence, the above will do.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
A quick side question if you don't mind, as it's the question to lead to this thread in a way. I mainly play edh and made a pure chaos deck, 5c. Originally it was Karona cause she seemed like the perfect mascot of crazy magic. Then I switched to child of alara, cause she's a damn result of alara splitting. Is that correct? Which do you think match chaos better (just lore wise)
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||