First, this isn't about WHAT the story should be, but rather about when it should be told, and I believe it's an idea that allows creative to tell the story through the cards while also throwing Vorthos a bone.
Simply, the story for each set should be told in the official articles BEFORE the sets release. Ideally, it would be told during the previous sets time on sale, and either finish before previews begin or during the early part of preview season using the story to spoil key event cards. Vorthos gets to be excited about the unveiling story, sans spoilers, then gets to pore over the cards to see how they fit while everyone else learns the story through the cards, all while WotC keeps the hype train in perpetual motion.
Had this been in effect, we would have gotten BFZ stories during Origins and been caught up to the failure to catch Ulamog before preview season spoiled it, then Oath stories during BFZ before the cards could spoil it. We'd see Sorin kill Avacyn as a shocking twist, not as a preview card.
What does everyone think?
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():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
I think having the story told too far in advance of the set is problematic. If big events are happening months or weeks before the release of the set, we're not going to be as connected to them.
Personally, I think a better course would be to set it up that the set releases in the middle of the story, or in the early part of the story, supposing the 'pivotal events' don't give away too much in the way of spoilers.
SOI is handling the story really well this time around, and even though we know Sorin dismantles Avacyn, the 'twist' I think is far more important this time around than in BFZ.
BFZ's problem wasn't so much that the story got spoiled so far ahead of the conclusion, but the creative decisions made for that conclusion. For vorthos like us, I think we appreciate the details and the journey much more, so I'm not bothered by Anguished Unmaking, and I think the key is to keep the last pivotal even from each set from revealing too much (for instance, it can depict the climax but not the resolution).
SOI is handling the story really well this time around, and even though we know Sorin dismantles Avacyn, the 'twist' I think is far more important this time around than in BFZ.
BFZ's problem wasn't so much that the story got spoiled so far ahead of the conclusion, but the creative decisions made for that conclusion. For vorthos like us, I think we appreciate the details and the journey much more, so I'm not bothered by Anguished Unmaking, and I think the key is to keep the last pivotal even from each set from revealing too much (for instance, it can depict the climax but not the resolution).
To emphasize, here are all the not so twisty twists of Battle for Zendikar Block:
1. Ob Nixilis interfering with the recapture of Ulamog to regain his power did surprise... for about two seconds. In story telling there's always something that complicates the plan, and Ob Nixilis for me was, "Oh... Wow... eh, makes sense."
2. It would have been a bigger plot twist if Kozilek wasn't in Oath of the Gatewatch. Aside from the Kozilek drones sprinkled in Battle for Zendikar, almost everyone knew going into Battle for Zendikar block that only having one Titan consuming the plane would not have been enough to carry Oath of the Gatewatch (at least in the terms of designing Eldrazi drones that differentiate across a far enough spectrum). But in general, what complicates stopping the Eldrazi more than Ob Nixilis? More Eldrazi with (allegedly) different powers.
3. The death of Ulamog and Kozilek though is perhaps the biggest twist that took everyone by surprise and was received... mixed at best. So much so that I'm pretty sure analysis outside the designated thread is forbidden, so all I'll say is not all twists may worth the price of implementing them.
Let's compare with Shadows twists *As I interpret them*
1. Avacyn has gone on a murderous rampage. What makes this better right out the gate than Ulamog is still eating Zendikar is that this isn't a twist, this is the premise of the story. Avacyn is popular with the players... I think. We're vested in the outcome more so because it's characters we know starting out in a completely different place than we left them. To be fair to BFZ, it's a sequel block that was kind of stuck either starting where the original ended or starting with the plane consumed.
2. Nahiri is the Mastermind. This is not the same Nahiri we gleamed when the Planeswalker Commanders came out a few years ago. And more importantly, she was the primary guard of the Eldrazi while they were imprisoned. So there's a lot of questions to answered around her *and I hope it's better explained than Nahiri threw a hissy fit at Sorin and got herself locked into the Helvault.
3. Jace saw the Raven Man. This one seems to have been only skimmed over as not a big deal, and maybe it isn't (Liliana's Indignation was my first encounter with the villain), but from what I gathered when he blipped on the radar is that the Raven being real and not just haunting Liliana is a big deal.
4. Avacyn dies. A major complaint about Battle for Zendikar was for as a big threat as the Eldrazi were made out to be, they killed no one of consequence. This sounds callous, but in writing, committing genocide against X living things when the reader has no emotional connection to those living things often leaves little impact on the reader. Avacyn is no such faceless being. (And as an aside, emotional investment probably ties into the reception of the Eldrazi deaths' reaction).
But timing honestly does not have much to do with spoilers in my opinion. Jay probably has the best solution between spoilers and the actual plot, but to be honest, I think Mark Rosewater has the right perspective: It's not that I know what direction the story is going to take: it's the journey along the way. I think the issue is that sometimes the writing staff...stains...the journey of the story (at least for the English Major with a writing focus).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
Yeah, I reconsidered my old opinion when I read MaRo's comment on it. It's a serious challenge to both make the story accessible AND avoid spoiling anything :/
I think the pivotal moments do a good job telling the story without telling too much.
Yeah, I reconsidered my old opinion when I read MaRo's comment on it. It's a serious challenge to both make the story accessible AND avoid spoiling anything :/
I think the pivotal moments do a good job telling the story without telling too much.
Same here. I was one of those who were quite annoyed with the irony then when they complained about the confusion to the players caused from the Kozilek/Colorless Mana Leak and that they did the same thing to the storylines. To be fair to them though, it BFZ-OGW (which we all can safely agree was quite a mess) and it came at a time when they had particularly bad PR (from that Kozilek article and its repercussions of the leak).
A bit off-topic, but this is why I like MaRo on social media - despite all the surface-silliness, he does his research and takes into account all kinds of views before he actually posts. I know they are the ones working hard and we're the "entitled bunch" making requests, but I'm still appreciative that MaRo does actually take into account that the "entitled bunch" are still customers/humans when phrasing his words. Which is made more amazing when you remember quite a lot of hate for almost anything goes to him most of the time, whether he was responsible or not.
Well, I guess we have to adapt. I'm thankful there's a separate "Block General Discussion" thread where we can discuss plausible theories/speculations related to the block/characters involved, because honestly with this set-up, speculations are going to be a frequent thing (and sometimes the most fun thing to do). Even now, I still like my "Omnath was the bait Ugin planted all those years ago" theory for BFZ, even if it turned out to be... actually still plausible considering they didn't touch on the topic at all... until we return to Zendikar again, maybe.
Maro rocks because he actually gives a damn about the product and story beyond the fact that it's his job. He genuinely is a fan, and actually learns from mistakes. He wants to see magic succeed not just because it's his job, but because he likes it. He's also a link to the old school pre Hasbro homogenized entertainment product style of thinking who understands the importance of maintaining the unique identity that won cans in the first place.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
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Simply, the story for each set should be told in the official articles BEFORE the sets release. Ideally, it would be told during the previous sets time on sale, and either finish before previews begin or during the early part of preview season using the story to spoil key event cards. Vorthos gets to be excited about the unveiling story, sans spoilers, then gets to pore over the cards to see how they fit while everyone else learns the story through the cards, all while WotC keeps the hype train in perpetual motion.
Had this been in effect, we would have gotten BFZ stories during Origins and been caught up to the failure to catch Ulamog before preview season spoiled it, then Oath stories during BFZ before the cards could spoil it. We'd see Sorin kill Avacyn as a shocking twist, not as a preview card.
What does everyone think?
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Personally, I think a better course would be to set it up that the set releases in the middle of the story, or in the early part of the story, supposing the 'pivotal events' don't give away too much in the way of spoilers.
SOI is handling the story really well this time around, and even though we know Sorin dismantles Avacyn, the 'twist' I think is far more important this time around than in BFZ.
BFZ's problem wasn't so much that the story got spoiled so far ahead of the conclusion, but the creative decisions made for that conclusion. For vorthos like us, I think we appreciate the details and the journey much more, so I'm not bothered by Anguished Unmaking, and I think the key is to keep the last pivotal even from each set from revealing too much (for instance, it can depict the climax but not the resolution).
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
1. Ob Nixilis interfering with the recapture of Ulamog to regain his power did surprise... for about two seconds. In story telling there's always something that complicates the plan, and Ob Nixilis for me was, "Oh... Wow... eh, makes sense."
2. It would have been a bigger plot twist if Kozilek wasn't in Oath of the Gatewatch. Aside from the Kozilek drones sprinkled in Battle for Zendikar, almost everyone knew going into Battle for Zendikar block that only having one Titan consuming the plane would not have been enough to carry Oath of the Gatewatch (at least in the terms of designing Eldrazi drones that differentiate across a far enough spectrum). But in general, what complicates stopping the Eldrazi more than Ob Nixilis? More Eldrazi with (allegedly) different powers.
3. The death of Ulamog and Kozilek though is perhaps the biggest twist that took everyone by surprise and was received... mixed at best. So much so that I'm pretty sure analysis outside the designated thread is forbidden, so all I'll say is not all twists may worth the price of implementing them.
Let's compare with Shadows twists *As I interpret them*
1. Avacyn has gone on a murderous rampage. What makes this better right out the gate than Ulamog is still eating Zendikar is that this isn't a twist, this is the premise of the story. Avacyn is popular with the players... I think. We're vested in the outcome more so because it's characters we know starting out in a completely different place than we left them. To be fair to BFZ, it's a sequel block that was kind of stuck either starting where the original ended or starting with the plane consumed.
2. Nahiri is the Mastermind. This is not the same Nahiri we gleamed when the Planeswalker Commanders came out a few years ago. And more importantly, she was the primary guard of the Eldrazi while they were imprisoned. So there's a lot of questions to answered around her *and I hope it's better explained than Nahiri threw a hissy fit at Sorin and got herself locked into the Helvault.
3. Jace saw the Raven Man. This one seems to have been only skimmed over as not a big deal, and maybe it isn't (Liliana's Indignation was my first encounter with the villain), but from what I gathered when he blipped on the radar is that the Raven being real and not just haunting Liliana is a big deal.
4. Avacyn dies. A major complaint about Battle for Zendikar was for as a big threat as the Eldrazi were made out to be, they killed no one of consequence. This sounds callous, but in writing, committing genocide against X living things when the reader has no emotional connection to those living things often leaves little impact on the reader. Avacyn is no such faceless being. (And as an aside, emotional investment probably ties into the reception of the Eldrazi deaths' reaction).
But timing honestly does not have much to do with spoilers in my opinion. Jay probably has the best solution between spoilers and the actual plot, but to be honest, I think Mark Rosewater has the right perspective: It's not that I know what direction the story is going to take: it's the journey along the way. I think the issue is that sometimes the writing staff...stains...the journey of the story (at least for the English Major with a writing focus).
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
I think the pivotal moments do a good job telling the story without telling too much.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Same here. I was one of those who were quite annoyed with the irony then when they complained about the confusion to the players caused from the Kozilek/Colorless Mana Leak and that they did the same thing to the storylines. To be fair to them though, it BFZ-OGW (which we all can safely agree was quite a mess) and it came at a time when they had particularly bad PR (from that Kozilek article and its repercussions of the leak).
A bit off-topic, but this is why I like MaRo on social media - despite all the surface-silliness, he does his research and takes into account all kinds of views before he actually posts. I know they are the ones working hard and we're the "entitled bunch" making requests, but I'm still appreciative that MaRo does actually take into account that the "entitled bunch" are still customers/humans when phrasing his words. Which is made more amazing when you remember quite a lot of hate for almost anything goes to him most of the time, whether he was responsible or not.
Well, I guess we have to adapt. I'm thankful there's a separate "Block General Discussion" thread where we can discuss plausible theories/speculations related to the block/characters involved, because honestly with this set-up, speculations are going to be a frequent thing (and sometimes the most fun thing to do). Even now, I still like my "Omnath was the bait Ugin planted all those years ago" theory for BFZ, even if it turned out to be... actually still plausible considering they didn't touch on the topic at all... until we return to Zendikar again, maybe.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!