Alright, going through the set and story we see the angels are turning on the huans and are looking evil and sickly and vile. My question is why? Why would they stop looking angelic? example Why would fighting and killing humans cause them to leave the blood on their wings? Vampires don't have blood? not saying i don't love all this I just want to know why would they stop looking angelic.
Start Here. It's the archive of all stories released so far regarding this second trip to Innistrad. Your questions about the angels is in Episode 2: "A Gaze Blank and Pitiless>"
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Your pic does a terrible job of explaining your argument as there is no blood on those angels and they look 'fairly' normal and quite angelic, except the eyes. As an actual answer, the blood stained wings is either only a visual cue for us, meaning it has no 'in-lore' reason; or it is a symbol of their fall from grace as they turn their blades on those they were meant to protect, meaning it isn't actually blood but a kind of taint that has taken the form of blood tipped wings.
Or the much less likely answer, upon being corrupted the angels stop caring about hygiene, and thus have stop cleaning their wings and armor entirely, cause why not.
Start Here. It's the archive of all stories released so far regarding this second trip to Innistrad. Your questions about the angels is in Episode 2: "A Gaze Blank and Pitiless>"
I did read all of them, I guess I didn't word the question properly, why would the angels expanding their "purging" to humans cause them to look less holy if they believe their cause is the right one. I know the are slaughtering humans but they also kill and slay vampires etc and their wings didn't stay or get bloodied then. How I'm seeing it, is if you reprogram cleaning robots that clean the bathroom floor to also clean the kitchen floor why would they get dirty and damaged from that? You feel me
Your pic does a terrible job of explaining your argument as there is no blood on those angels and they look 'fairly' normal and quite angelic, except the eyes. As an actual answer, the blood stained wings is either only a visual cue for us, meaning it has no 'in-lore' reason; or it is a symbol of their fall from grace as they turn their blades on those they were meant to protect, meaning it isn't actually blood but a kind of taint that has taken the form of blood tipped wings.
Or the much less likely answer, upon being corrupted the angels stop caring about hygiene, and thus have stop cleaning their wings and armor entirely, cause why not.
I chose that pic cause the angels look like sickly harpies cuz their wings look like when a bird has been battered and their hair looks really unkept. I like the first explanation and I get the second thanks
Avacyn is the only artificial angel, however the rest of the angels are all affected and strengthened by her magic. It's been mentioned that Avacynian angels have a hard time staying in places too far from Avacynian wards. They're also affected by her 'balance' magic, weakening or strengthening them in response to the threat to humanity.
We don't know quite how the angels are getting corrupted, but it's linked to Avacyn's corruption. Likely, it's related to the same corruption that's warping everything else on the plane.
The wing blood is just kind of a metaphor, I think. It's not literal blood, in most cases.
There's also an argument that angels are meant to be creatures of pure white mana, but they are bleeding (ha ha) into red quite heavily in this set. The red could just be a graphical device to illustrate that fact to us, the players, or it could actualy be a manifestation of that as they drift from their pure white base.
It does raise an interesting question though: how can a creature whose very essence is pure mana drift across the colour-pie? Is Avacyn, the Purifier still technically a being of pure white mana? Or is she actually now partly or fully composed of red mana? And if so, is it possible for her to drift so far that she stops being an angel and actually becomes an elemental?
There's also an argument that angels are meant to be creatures of pure white mana, but they are bleeding (ha ha) into red quite heavily in this set. The red could just be a graphical device to illustrate that fact to us, the players, or it could actualy be a manifestation of that as they drift from their pure white base.
I don't know if they could change their personalities naturally but it makes sense that an outside force could change that.
It does raise an interesting question though: how can a creature whose very essence is pure mana drift across the colour-pie? Is Avacyn, the Purifier still technically a being of pure white mana? Or is she actually now partly or fully composed of red mana? And if so, is it possible for her to drift so far that she stops being an angel and actually becomes an elemental?
IIRC Maro says Avacyn is current RW but its cleaner to have a white side and a red side.
There's also an argument that angels are meant to be creatures of pure white mana, but they are bleeding (ha ha) into red quite heavily in this set. The red could just be a graphical device to illustrate that fact to us, the players, or it could actualy be a manifestation of that as they drift from their pure white base.
It does raise an interesting question though: how can a creature whose very essence is pure mana drift across the colour-pie? Is Avacyn, the Purifier still technically a being of pure white mana? Or is she actually now partly or fully composed of red mana? And if so, is it possible for her to drift so far that she stops being an angel and actually becomes an elemental?
According to Maro Avacyn is Red/White, she's just mono-Red to emphasise the change/because multicolor doesn't work well in transformation. The same could be said of the other angels.
Tellingly, most angelic spells are still White. They aren't "drifting" away from White.
There's also an argument that angels are meant to be creatures of pure white mana, but they are bleeding (ha ha) into red quite heavily in this set. The red could just be a graphical device to illustrate that fact to us, the players, or it could actualy be a manifestation of that as they drift from their pure white base.
It does raise an interesting question though: how can a creature whose very essence is pure mana drift across the colour-pie? Is Avacyn, the Purifier still technically a being of pure white mana? Or is she actually now partly or fully composed of red mana? And if so, is it possible for her to drift so far that she stops being an angel and actually becomes an elemental?
According to Maro Avacyn is Red/White, she's just mono-Red to emphasise the change/because multicolor doesn't work well in transformation. The same could be said of the other angels.
Tellingly, most angelic spells are still White. They aren't "drifting" away from White.
The flight moonsilver one becomes Fallen Angel when you hit delirium, and has that cards very black and very non-white effect. There's also the mono-red mythic.
Also, Garruk's DFC was B/G on the reverse, so I'm calling bs on MARO's "multicolor doesn't work with transform" answer.
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Flameblade Angel and Goldnight Castigator are both very red: red casting costs, red effects. Interestingly, the split on the angel cards is even between red and white. Angel of Deliverance and Reaper of Flight Moonsilver are both mono-W, with Avacyn split between the two. (Oh yes - and Sigarda unchanged at GW, so maybe the balance is slightly more towards white still). But you're absolutely right Mullerornis about the general angelic spells: 5 white spells depict angels in action, but only 2 red ones - and bothare Avacyn.
It just made me wonder how mana-based creatures work. We know W mana creatures are angels, B ones are demons, and U, R or G ones tend to be elementals. Seeing non-W angels (or non-B demons, I suppose) just feels... off. Though I suppose that's the idea in this case.
There's also an argument that angels are meant to be creatures of pure white mana, but they are bleeding (ha ha) into red quite heavily in this set. The red could just be a graphical device to illustrate that fact to us, the players, or it could actualy be a manifestation of that as they drift from their pure white base.
It does raise an interesting question though: how can a creature whose very essence is pure mana drift across the colour-pie? Is Avacyn, the Purifier still technically a being of pure white mana? Or is she actually now partly or fully composed of red mana? And if so, is it possible for her to drift so far that she stops being an angel and actually becomes an elemental?
According to Maro Avacyn is Red/White, she's just mono-Red to emphasise the change/because multicolor doesn't work well in transformation. The same could be said of the other angels.
Tellingly, most angelic spells are still White. They aren't "drifting" away from White.
The flight moonsilver one becomes Fallen Angel when you hit delirium, and has that cards very black and very non-white effect. There's also the mono-red mythic.
Also, Garruk's DFC was B/G on the reverse, so I'm calling bs on MARO's "multicolor doesn't work with transform" answer.
She doesn't become Black at all, though. Also, as we see angels are not shifting towards Black mana, so I'm not sure what's your point here.
Garruk was implied by Maro to be the reason why multicolor DF is ill-received. Likewise, there is nothing in canon that suggests Avacyn forsook White mana; again, nearly all angel spells are still White, including Descend Upon The Sinful, a card all about Avacyn's madness.
Flameblade Angel and Goldnight Castigator are both very red: red casting costs, red effects. Interestingly, the split on the angel cards is even between red and white. Angel of Deliverance and Reaper of Flight Moonsilver are both mono-W, with Avacyn split between the two. (Oh yes - and Sigarda unchanged at GW, so maybe the balance is slightly more towards white still). But you're absolutely right Mullerornis about the general angelic spells: 5 white spells depict angels in action, but only 2 red ones - and bothare Avacyn.
It just made me wonder how mana-based creatures work. We know W mana creatures are angels, B ones are demons, and U, R or G ones tend to be elementals. Seeing non-W angels (or non-B demons, I suppose) just feels... off. Though I suppose that's the idea in this case.
Nah - not really the same. Dragons aren't defined to be creatures of pure red mana in the lore. Sure, they *tend* heavily towards red, but it isn't an inherent part of what makes them dragons. White mana is the defining characteristic of angels. As far as the lore is concerned, they're W elementals (and demons are B elementals).
I'm not trying to argue it can't or shouldn't happen; we've had mono-B angels before (though usually implying some kind of corruption of a previously W creature) and a mono-R one, but, you know, Planar Chaos... I'm just trying to understand how it affects their innate angelness. At what point does an angel cease to really be an angel and become just an elemental?
There is a point to this beyond a thought experiment too: if demons had to be bound in the Helvault because when they died their essence, as beings of pure black mana, dissipated back into Innistrad to be reborn as some other demon instead; and Avacyn ended up in the Helvault too because she is also a creature of pure mana; does the mana creature > dissipated essence > reforming cycle work for all colours of mana on Innistrad? If an angel is killed, does its white mana also dissipate and reform? If its essence shifts from white to red mana through some outside influence, and then it's killed, does it still dissipate and reform? And if so, as a W angel again? Or as a R elemental of some kind?
I'm probably over-thinking this. I just found it an interesting line of conjecture.
There is a point to this beyond a thought experiment too: if demons had to be bound in the Helvault because when they died their essence, as beings of pure black mana, dissipated back into Innistrad to be reborn as some other demon instead; and Avacyn ended up in the Helvault too because she is also a creature of pure mana; does the mana creature > dissipated essence > reforming cycle work for all colours of mana on Innistrad? If an angel is killed, does its white mana also dissipate and reform? If its essence shifts from white to red mana through some outside influence, and then it's killed, does it still dissipate and reform? And if so, as a W angel again? Or as a R elemental of some kind?
I actually really hope this is how it works, as it means we might not have to wait until the next Orzhov colored Commander to get the fourth Powerpuff girl.
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One thing it could be is the perspective of how humans see angels and how they view them now,it's like how churches can look spooky to some people.Without any reverence for them anymore they are seen as soulless creatures cold and unfeeling.So besides the blood on some of their wings not much has physically changed they're still the same,but are seen in a different light now.
We know W mana creatures are angels, B ones are demons...
I don't think this is technically accurate.
Angels are beings of W mana, but not all W mana beings are angels. There are also W elementals. Likewise while demons are B mana beings, not all black mana beings are demons. As with white there are also B elementals.
I think there's a distinctive characteristic that differentiates between whether a W mana being is an Angel or an Elemental (likewise a B mana being a Demon or an Elemental) and that because of that they will always remain an Angel (or Demon) and never change into an Elemental simply due to color drift.
One thing it could be is the perspective of how humans see angels and how they view them now,it's like how churches can look spooky to some people.Without any reverence for them anymore they are seen as soulless creatures cold and unfeeling.So besides the blood on some of their wings not much has physically changed they're still the same,but are seen in a different light now.
These explanations make a lot of sense, so I guess they always looked like that to vamps etc and liliana?
Remember that Angels in Innstrad are natural. Most planes the whole "Angels are White Mana" thing stems from the fact that they're purely artificial, and not completely and totally naturally occuring the way they are in innstrad.
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Remember that Angels in Innstrad are natural. Most planes the whole "Angels are White Mana" thing stems from the fact that they're purely artificial, and not completely and totally naturally occuring the way they are in innstrad.
I think you may be misinterpreting this. The only artificial angels we know of are Serra's Angels, Avacyn and Akroma.
All these others are beings of pure white mana, still naturally occurring.
So yes, you're partially correct, in that Avacyn is artificial but the rest are natural angels.
One thing it could be is the perspective of how humans see angels and how they view them now,it's like how churches can look spooky to some people.Without any reverence for them anymore they are seen as soulless creatures cold and unfeeling.So besides the blood on some of their wings not much has physically changed they're still the same,but are seen in a different light now.
These explanations make a lot of sense, so I guess they always looked like that to vamps etc and liliana?
Yeah,like how some atheist might see them,to them a church is just a building and an angel might as well just be a robot.To Lilliana I think it's more that she doesn't like goody two shoes,which is how she sees them.
There's also an argument that angels are meant to be creatures of pure white mana, but they are bleeding (ha ha) into red quite heavily in this set. The red could just be a graphical device to illustrate that fact to us, the players, or it could actualy be a manifestation of that as they drift from their pure white base.
It does raise an interesting question though: how can a creature whose very essence is pure mana drift across the colour-pie? Is Avacyn, the Purifier still technically a being of pure white mana? Or is she actually now partly or fully composed of red mana? And if so, is it possible for her to drift so far that she stops being an angel and actually becomes an elemental?
According to Maro Avacyn is Red/White, she's just mono-Red to emphasise the change/because multicolor doesn't work well in transformation. The same could be said of the other angels.
Tellingly, most angelic spells are still White. They aren't "drifting" away from White.
The flight moonsilver one becomes Fallen Angel when you hit delirium, and has that cards very black and very non-white effect. There's also the mono-red mythic.
Also, Garruk's DFC was B/G on the reverse, so I'm calling bs on MARO's "multicolor doesn't work with transform" answer.
She doesn't become Black at all, though. Also, as we see angels are not shifting towards Black mana, so I'm not sure what's your point here.
Garruk was implied by Maro to be the reason why multicolor DF is ill-received. Likewise, there is nothing in canon that suggests Avacyn forsook White mana; again, nearly all angel spells are still White, including Descend Upon The Sinful, a card all about Avacyn's madness.
Flameblade Angel and Goldnight Castigator are both very red: red casting costs, red effects. Interestingly, the split on the angel cards is even between red and white. Angel of Deliverance and Reaper of Flight Moonsilver are both mono-W, with Avacyn split between the two. (Oh yes - and Sigarda unchanged at GW, so maybe the balance is slightly more towards white still). But you're absolutely right Mullerornis about the general angelic spells: 5 white spells depict angels in action, but only 2 red ones - and bothare Avacyn.
It just made me wonder how mana-based creatures work. We know W mana creatures are angels, B ones are demons, and U, R or G ones tend to be elementals. Seeing non-W angels (or non-B demons, I suppose) just feels... off. Though I suppose that's the idea in this case.
Probably how there can be non-Red dragons.
I'm sorry, but giving a white creature a black ability IS drifting from white. At the very least, they are bleeding the color pie for flavor reasons, specifically to evoke a black card. Thanks for continuing to ignore the mono red angels though. And I never brought up Avacyn.
The point, BTW, is that they very much are drifting from mono white, and we are seeing both mono red angels and Angel related spells, and black abilities on angel cards.
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I'm sorry, but giving a white creature a black ability IS drifting from white. At the very least, they are bleeding the color pie for flavor reasons, specifically to evoke a black card. Thanks for continuing to ignore the mono red angels though. And I never brought up Avacyn.
The point, BTW, is that they very much are drifting from mono white, and we are seeing both mono red angels and Angel related spells, and black abilities on angel cards.
Bleeds are still part of the color. It's not something White can't do, it's something that it does rarely. Maybe the card was designed to invoke Fallen ANgel, but it's by no means something mono-White is barred from. If this is your evidence for angels shifting away from White, I'm sorry to say that it's very flimsy.
I'm going to be forgiving and assume you've just forgotten about my previous addressals on the set's Red angels. Because, otherwise, that statement would be very hypocritical on your part.
Yes, it's all but stated that Nahiri's behind Avacyns madness.
It's heavily implied, but never confirmed. It's entirely possible that there is something else entirely, causing both of them to act out of character.
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Start Here. It's the archive of all stories released so far regarding this second trip to Innistrad. Your questions about the angels is in Episode 2: "A Gaze Blank and Pitiless>"
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~~~~~
Or the much less likely answer, upon being corrupted the angels stop caring about hygiene, and thus have stop cleaning their wings and armor entirely, cause why not.
I did read all of them, I guess I didn't word the question properly, why would the angels expanding their "purging" to humans cause them to look less holy if they believe their cause is the right one. I know the are slaughtering humans but they also kill and slay vampires etc and their wings didn't stay or get bloodied then. How I'm seeing it, is if you reprogram cleaning robots that clean the bathroom floor to also clean the kitchen floor why would they get dirty and damaged from that? You feel me
I chose that pic cause the angels look like sickly harpies cuz their wings look like when a bird has been battered and their hair looks really unkept. I like the first explanation and I get the second thanks
We don't know quite how the angels are getting corrupted, but it's linked to Avacyn's corruption. Likely, it's related to the same corruption that's warping everything else on the plane.
The wing blood is just kind of a metaphor, I think. It's not literal blood, in most cases.
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It does raise an interesting question though: how can a creature whose very essence is pure mana drift across the colour-pie? Is Avacyn, the Purifier still technically a being of pure white mana? Or is she actually now partly or fully composed of red mana? And if so, is it possible for her to drift so far that she stops being an angel and actually becomes an elemental?
I don't know if they could change their personalities naturally but it makes sense that an outside force could change that.
IIRC Maro says Avacyn is current RW but its cleaner to have a white side and a red side.
According to Maro Avacyn is Red/White, she's just mono-Red to emphasise the change/because multicolor doesn't work well in transformation. The same could be said of the other angels.
Tellingly, most angelic spells are still White. They aren't "drifting" away from White.
The flight moonsilver one becomes Fallen Angel when you hit delirium, and has that cards very black and very non-white effect. There's also the mono-red mythic.
Also, Garruk's DFC was B/G on the reverse, so I'm calling bs on MARO's "multicolor doesn't work with transform" answer.
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It just made me wonder how mana-based creatures work. We know W mana creatures are angels, B ones are demons, and U, R or G ones tend to be elementals. Seeing non-W angels (or non-B demons, I suppose) just feels... off. Though I suppose that's the idea in this case.
She doesn't become Black at all, though. Also, as we see angels are not shifting towards Black mana, so I'm not sure what's your point here.
Garruk was implied by Maro to be the reason why multicolor DF is ill-received. Likewise, there is nothing in canon that suggests Avacyn forsook White mana; again, nearly all angel spells are still White, including Descend Upon The Sinful, a card all about Avacyn's madness.
Probably how there can be non-Red dragons.
Nah - not really the same. Dragons aren't defined to be creatures of pure red mana in the lore. Sure, they *tend* heavily towards red, but it isn't an inherent part of what makes them dragons. White mana is the defining characteristic of angels. As far as the lore is concerned, they're W elementals (and demons are B elementals).
I'm not trying to argue it can't or shouldn't happen; we've had mono-B angels before (though usually implying some kind of corruption of a previously W creature) and a mono-R one, but, you know, Planar Chaos... I'm just trying to understand how it affects their innate angelness. At what point does an angel cease to really be an angel and become just an elemental?
There is a point to this beyond a thought experiment too: if demons had to be bound in the Helvault because when they died their essence, as beings of pure black mana, dissipated back into Innistrad to be reborn as some other demon instead; and Avacyn ended up in the Helvault too because she is also a creature of pure mana; does the mana creature > dissipated essence > reforming cycle work for all colours of mana on Innistrad? If an angel is killed, does its white mana also dissipate and reform? If its essence shifts from white to red mana through some outside influence, and then it's killed, does it still dissipate and reform? And if so, as a W angel again? Or as a R elemental of some kind?
I'm probably over-thinking this. I just found it an interesting line of conjecture.
I actually really hope this is how it works, as it means we might not have to wait until the next Orzhov colored Commander to get the fourth Powerpuff girl.
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I don't think this is technically accurate.
Angels are beings of W mana, but not all W mana beings are angels. There are also W elementals. Likewise while demons are B mana beings, not all black mana beings are demons. As with white there are also B elementals.
I think there's a distinctive characteristic that differentiates between whether a W mana being is an Angel or an Elemental (likewise a B mana being a Demon or an Elemental) and that because of that they will always remain an Angel (or Demon) and never change into an Elemental simply due to color drift.
All these others are beings of pure white mana, still naturally occurring.
So yes, you're partially correct, in that Avacyn is artificial but the rest are natural angels.
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Their appearance is certainly tied to the purging.
But its not the reason.
Yeah,like how some atheist might see them,to them a church is just a building and an angel might as well just be a robot.To Lilliana I think it's more that she doesn't like goody two shoes,which is how she sees them.
I'm sorry, but giving a white creature a black ability IS drifting from white. At the very least, they are bleeding the color pie for flavor reasons, specifically to evoke a black card. Thanks for continuing to ignore the mono red angels though. And I never brought up Avacyn.
The point, BTW, is that they very much are drifting from mono white, and we are seeing both mono red angels and Angel related spells, and black abilities on angel cards.
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Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Bleeds are still part of the color. It's not something White can't do, it's something that it does rarely. Maybe the card was designed to invoke Fallen ANgel, but it's by no means something mono-White is barred from. If this is your evidence for angels shifting away from White, I'm sorry to say that it's very flimsy.
I'm going to be forgiving and assume you've just forgotten about my previous addressals on the set's Red angels. Because, otherwise, that statement would be very hypocritical on your part.
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It's heavily implied, but never confirmed. It's entirely possible that there is something else entirely, causing both of them to act out of character.
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