So yeah, it hurts to see both a unique character and my entry to the game leave, essentially in the storyline of Innistrad not long after she had just returned. If we've seen 3 years of Innistrad roughly in our two blocks on the plane and brief core set visits, she's been gone for one and corrupted for close to another. And that sucks for those of us who are fans. And unlike Elspeth, she's not coming back. The stakes finally matter, and the price for my wish was my favorite character. I'm not a white player, and I'm not a huge angel fan like many are. They're alright, but not my thing as much as removal spells, wolves and ghosts are. But Avacyn was my exception, and I do agree angels get the raw end of stories way too frequently in the storyline. It's not even that she's merely dead; it's that they ruined her entire reputation along the way. She didn't die protecting her plane, or fulfilling her purpose. She died wanting to protect millions and freaking out realizing she had failed to do so. That hurts more than Elspeth dying after Heliod betrayed her, or Venser dying of disease or Gerrard sacrifice himself to destroy Yamgmoth. They all completed their missions. Avacyn failed hers, and no one on Innistrad will remember her in a monument like Akroma or in mosaics like Elspeth.
Dang, this write up turned me to ash coz of feels...
because that's the end point to it, unlike the Neowalkers/Jacetice League, getting this, Avacyn will not return.
Some may hate the first-person POV, but to me it somehow lent something to the story. (p.s. Should've not read this story while I was about to go to sleep and having health issue paranoia)
It's almost moot to continue to beach and moan about her death, because it will just fall into deaf ears anyway... as long as the Gameplay people are attended to.
I'm just wishing that Sigarda will kick arse in her place in Eldritch Moon (still crossing my fingers and toes that she be the next Angelic Leader in Innistrad)
else, I'm gonna see you folks in the next return to Ravnica (or whichever set/block is gonna have angels), where I know something bad will happen to Aurelia, because Magic, as we know it, like's torturing angels.
Once again, appreciate the compliment. Why must my best contribution to this wonderful forum be a eulogy to my beloved angel?!? I just wanted her to live, or at least die serving some greater purpose. Instead I got hit right in the feels.
Vorthos-player with way too much time on his hands and a love of thematic decks.
EDH - Yes, Each One is Named After a Song. I love tying music to my decks.
Then again, who am I kidding? Like I said, Wizards is just a company. They'll do whatever cheap thrills sell products. We're lucky to get even a cohesive narrative, and not just some general flavor for the setting.
Honestly, after BfZ and now possibly SoI, that might be the right thing for them to do. They are oddly very good at creating distilled settings, but their attempts at writing a story seem to end in the destruction of that setting far too readily. If they had focused on the setting entirely, Zendikar would still be an adventure world. Luckily it's Zendikar and what's left of the Mana there will heal the plane in a few years time, but Innistrad isn't so lucky.
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Lycanthropy Awareness Day.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Wizards cheated a bit on the emotional connection because Avacyn has a fan base because she's a hero with cards that are good in the trading card game, resulting in the average intended reader filling in the blanks for Creative just enough (see also: Elspeth Tirel). And to be honest, Wizards could have executed this worse. Coming into Shadows over Innistrad, it's one lesson I had hoped that Wizards of the Coast learned from Battle for Zendikar (there's a lot I hope they learned, but let's stick with this one at the moment). For example, the death of Ashaya would have had more of an impact if its name had been Omnath.
That being said, I did bring up this problem last week because I realized Avacyn went mad in story 2, and then we proceeded to not see anything about her until story 11. While dunno what Wizards could have done (if there were more fights with angels, there's a HIGH risk of the overabundance of Eldrazi brood fights in BFZ storyline), but just leaving her out of the story for 9 weeks may have taken the problem to the other end of the spectrum (I don't count her glorified cameo fighting Nahiri in a flashback).
Yeah I agree. That second paragraph is pretty much what I was trying to say. She needed more exposure for me to care. I don't think it even needed to be too much more exposure. One story, maybe two, would have been more than enough. Maybe with characters that have interested with her. Like Sigarda, or some random dude in a parish somewhere, or Arlinn Kord or something. Or having her madness stretch out over more than just one story. I kind of feel like she gets extra sympathy cause she was a pure good character and people like that stuff and to see her corrupted and fall is sad instead of interesting.
I actually like the overall storyline, with Angelic madness and the mysteries, and I enjoy that its not the main problem and is a symptom of something bigger, and I think "Innistrad as usually, just Nahiri is here," for set one would have been kind of boring. I just wish we got more of the angelic purge, but it seems I'm in the minority? It was at the least better than last block. Still lacking on execution, but not terrible.
While I'm positive this is the kind of reaction creative was hoping for I'm a little surprised. Avacyn had little to no characterization. To me she didn't seem like anything more than your run-of-the-mill angel who kinda seemed like a robot and was extremely powerful, which, to me, wasn't super compelling as a character, so I got no attachment to her and I'm a little surprised at the reaction, since in my opinion, her lack of characterization was a huge flaw in the SOI story line. Maybe I'm in the minority? I do agree with Ashiok that at least, from a storytelling and logic perspective this death, as opposed to BFZ/OGW's Eldrazi death, makes much more sense and for me makes it much less sour.
It's not that she has such amazing and dynamic characterization, it's the fact she had the potential to become so much more. She is a run of the mill angel, but she had a very unconventional origin. She wasn't just some random embodiment of goodness that coalesced from the natural forces of white on the plane, like most other angels. No, she was created by Sorin, a twisted, arrogant, and cruel monster who survives by killing others. Sorin requires one human worth of blood a month. He's over 6000 years old. That's 72,000 people Sorin has killed. 72,000. Think about that, and tell me Sorin isn't a monster. Now imagine having to live with the fact that you were created by that monster. Think of what a compelling story that could be! What's more, Avacyn is powered by human need. Her power grows when more humans are dying. I don't know about you, but that would make me question my existence. Such potential, all wasted.
All of that doesn't mean she was a good character. Her relationship with Sorin gives more character development with her death rather than her life, since that's just status quo as normal, and a new problem begins. Sure, Avacyn learning about herself and her origins would have been interesting, but this other way isn't bad. Its different but its not bad. There's a new problem, and assuming Innistrad doesn't explode or change drastically with Eldritch Moon (which it probably will). The next storyline might just be, how does Innistrad/Sorin/the Gatewatch deal with not having Avacyn. All sorts of questions open up. How do the people deal? How is the purge remembered? What takes the place of the faith/would they even know that Avacyn just hasn't disappeared again? What to the other, real angels do? Does Sigarda step up? Do the purging Angels get punished? How do they, beings of pure white mana deal with what they've done? How do they deal with no more Avacyn? How does Sorin deal with his grief? How does it affet his ability to deal with the Eldrazi? etc Plus everything isn't actually straight going to hell, since we know that the Vampires and Werewolves have been decimated, so we can assume that it wont be as bad as Dark Ascension.
Besides, Avacyn herself isn't special. She's just an Angel, without a personality and a lot of power, who had the potential to be a powerful angel with no personality, and now with angst now? Does she even have the emotional range to deal with that? It doesn't seem interesting to me because I don't really know how Avacyn viewed the world beforehand. All we got was a couple paragraphs in story two. (I actually think that there are a bunch of interesting question if she did survive, like how/if she is redeemed, but in my opinion that one isnt one of them) Sorin's the actual interesting character here, in my opinion and we get to see how he changes and develops.
Echoing that sentiment to an extent, Avacyn to me at least was my favorite character and unique because of her very nature. She's not one of the natural mana manifested angels seen throughout the universe. She was artifical, but at the same time a living, breathing being. I often wondered how she would react to or if she even knew of her origins. We learned a few years back that Mikaeus knew in some Uncharted Realms I forgot the name of, but it was never clear if Avacyn knew. The existential implications of an angel knowing she was made by a monster she was created to destroy always fascinated me. Would she react negatively? Would she begrudgingly see need for her creation behind it? Did Sorin even consider her as a daughter, or was it purely creation - creator?
Further, Avacyn, as Jenrik points out wasn't like Akroma. She was literally a planar shield that could not only stave off the threats throughout arguably the most dangerous plane in the multiverse, but she seemed genuinely to be invested in that goal above all else. Akroma was created out of a desire for vengeance; Avacyn was created to protect. She was essentially a Jesus allegory in the game, and I found that fascinating. She could kill demons, convert werewolves, ferry spirits to the afterlife and inspire thousands if not millions. That was pretty cool, for lack of a better term.
Like Jenrik, I got in during Dark Ascension, and was only in for 2 weeks when Avacyn Restored dropped. I went from wondering who this character was to seeing her power, and that was essentially my introduction to magic. As much as I like Gothit horror and understand the love for Innistrad and the Dark elements of its lore, I enjoyed and still enjoy AVACYN Restored because it was a set of duality. The Darkness of the world persisted, but there was hope with Avacyn, the Angel of.....hope. not a clever name, granted.
Also, when the first single I ever bought was an Avacyn that I still play regularly to this day, and I pulled that card a thousand times in our kitchen table decks when I'm dead if I draw any of the other 40 cards in my deck, I grew attached to the card and character. It's dumb, anecdotal evidence, but like anyone else, we all have one or two cards that we have certain attachments to, and Avacyn is mine.
So yeah, it hurts to see both a unique character and my entry to the game leave, essentially in the storyline of Innistrad not long after she had just returned. If we've seen 3 years of Innistrad roughly in our two blocks on the plane and brief core set visits, she's been gone for one and corrupted for close to another. And that sucks for those of us who are fans. And unlike Elspeth, she's not coming back. The stakes finally matter, and the price for my wish was my favorite character. I'm not a white player, and I'm not a huge angel fan like many are. They're alright, but not my thing as much as removal spells, wolves and ghosts are. But Avacyn was my exception, and I do agree angels get the raw end of stories way too frequently in the storyline. It's not even that she's merely dead; it's that they ruined her entire reputation along the way. She didn't die protecting her plane, or fulfilling her purpose. She died wanting to protect millions and freaking out realizing she had failed to do so. That hurts more than Elspeth dying after Heliod betrayed her, or Venser dying of disease or Gerrard sacrifice himself to destroy Yamgmoth. They all completed their missions. Avacyn failed hers, and no one on Innistrad will remember her in a monument like Akroma or in mosaics like Elspeth.
You don't have to feel too sad. I essentially suffer the same pain, except on a planar scale - Kamigawa was the first plane when I got into MTG and despite the story being set 1000 years before the Block before it (Mirrodin), which means it is instantly open to any radical changes in a sequel, especially post Time-Spiral, WotC decided based on pre-EDH feedback data that the plane is going to get no more than some references to it (via Tamiyo, Kaseto and the occasional mention by Jace whenever the references pop up since he has been there before). MaRo even said that they would be more likely to just create another "Japanese-inspired" plane than return to Kamigawa in a Standard Block (granted he said that a long time back and things do change, but I'm still taking it as status quo until he says the opposite). Theros having parallels to Kamigawa's structure (though no completely) doesn't really help matters, either. The only consolation is that my favorite character still has a chance of being alive, by virtue of his ascension at the end of the novels.
Avacyn wasn't the only one who failed her mission - someone was tasked to protect Mirrodin (from New Phyrexia) a long time ago and he failed similarly. While he has remnants of reminder, even his origin artifact of power (which I would consider the vastly more important one) was tossed and forgotten completely in the sequel. Sure, he didn't feel a pang of guilt when he did what we could consider the same level of Avacyn did to his plane, but in fairness his actions didn't outright contradict his mission (he determined that he needed to contact Karn because he wasn't powerful enough to hold off the oil and the best way to do that was to get a spark for himself and Phyrexia (at least Yawgmoth back then) happens to be the premier party of that business, so he used part of their means in his madness), whereas Avacyn... didn't have this much thoughts in her madness.
At the very least the one who unmade Avacyn still seems compliant to protect the plane, not like a certain traitor.
Sorry if any of this listed examples made it sound condescending in any manner, it was not intended. I understand the pain you're going through, but because I'm not as attached to Avacyn as you are (and as Jenrik was to his character), the only way I could express similar levels of pain I felt was to raise the cases in the past that had more impact on myself instead.
Lorwyn is a beautiful idyllic paradise that should be visited after Kamigawa. And MaRo, Market Research, and Hasbro are just going to deal.
Both blocks were kind of failures for greater audience. Lorwyn too cute and fairytale. Kamigawa because of choosing non-resonant and unfamiliar tropes. Time Spiral was kind of the same - too much nostalgia oriented and again sometimes undecipherable for non-invested players.. I cannot see them returning there,at least not in the way you want.
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Former Fact Prospector of the Greek Alliance.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
So I really liked this one in just about all ways. Sad story obviously, but a very good one. I'm glad that Avacyn didn't die insane, and that she regained some measure of herself along with a realization of what she had done before the end. I also liked how she grew as a character and basically told Sorin that she wasn't taking anymore of his s***. Her reputation and legacy may be ruined forever but I think in her las moments she was more Avacyn, Angel of Hope than Avacyn, the Purifier. Really looking forward to both the long awaited reveal of "the Shadow" and how Sorin deals w/ Avacyn's death, in a few week's time.
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Cool Story, sad to see Avacyn go. I may lean to Black Mana but I still love All Loving and Protecting heroes, an interesting bit here is that we are going into EM stories in three weeks, I hope they are ramping up the speed of the short stories so that the final story hits on pre-release or release week that way we don't get things spoiled for us quite as often. I think the hype built by Spoiling a Card like Fall of the Titans or Anguished Unmaking with the plot event itself would be wonderful.
[quote from="Jenrik »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-storyline/675516-magic-story-articles-discussion-shadows-over?comment=1350"]
It's not that she has such amazing and dynamic characterization, it's the fact she had the potential to become so much more. She is a run of the mill angel, but she had a very unconventional origin. She wasn't just some random embodiment of goodness that coalesced from the natural forces of white on the plane, like most other angels. No, she was created by Sorin, a twisted, arrogant, and cruel monster who survives by killing others. Sorin requires one human worth of blood a month. He's over 6000 years old. That's 72,000 people Sorin has killed. 72,000. Think about that, and tell me Sorin isn't a monster. Now imagine having to live with the fact that you were created by that monster. Think of what a compelling story that could be! What's more, Avacyn is powered by human need. Her power grows when more humans are dying. I don't know about you, but that would make me question my existence. Such potential, all wasted.
I don't like this prejudice against vampires. Yes, they kill people, but otherwise they would starve to death. I disapprove how they can often act very gratuitously, but regarding their feeding habits, well, humans kill alot of animals to eat too, so we don't have the moral high ground to judge just because in this case we are not the ones at the top of the food chain. In fact, as you can see by the text of Bloodflow Conoisseur, as far as vampires go, Sorin has more respect for life than you give him credit for. If the guy is indeed a monster, it is not because of this 72000 kill count.
Once again, appreciate the compliment. Why must my best contribution to this wonderful forum be a eulogy to my beloved angel?!? I just wanted her to live, or at least die serving some greater purpose. Instead I got hit right in the feels.
Lol. It was a really good eulogy. :|
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Vorthos Cartography - Check out my completed maps of Zendikar and Innistrad!
"You say 'learn from history,' but that does not mean 'learn the same bull***** the people in history learned alongside phrenology and alchemy.'" - The Blinking Spirit
Avacyn was becoming lucid, too. Then he went and killed her despite her attacks bringing him no harm. Enjoy your new Emrakul. Hope she rips Innistrad to smithereens and eats Sorin.
Avacyn was becoming lucid, too. Then he went and killed her despite her attacks bringing him no harm. Enjoy your new Emrakul. Hope she rips Innistrad to smithereens and eats Sorin.
She was... and then she went more insane than ever and her attacks COULD start hurting him.
Man SOI was not a good return for me. I lost Jenrik and Avacyn.
Hope the next set has a Tamiyo PW card with elegant artwork at least...
:/ Sorry dude.
If it makes you feel better, Avacyn - at three different legendary cards - has gotten more printings as a character than any non-planeswalker creature. I mean, I guess Iname, Uncle Karlov and Jeska technically had three printings each, but if you count the rear face technically Avacyn has four unique versions.
All I can say now is that Nahiri better bite the big one at the end of EMN (... unless... Maro kinda hinted that the way she's acting may not turn out to be her fault either in an answer on his blog. Some kind of 'Why is Nahiri acting so non-white?' 'Let's wait and see how the whole story pans out before answering that one eh?' kind of comment). As much as I loved Avacyn (and Elspeth), Sorin is my real favourite character in MtG. If it ends up that he's the one who doesn't survive (to clear the way for a WB Elspeth?) I'll probably quit Magic.
For about a week
I still haven't got over Dream's demise in Sandman about twenty years ago though. Losing Sorin would be gutting. What can I say? I like clichéd gothic anti-heroes.
The saddest part is that this whole revenge thing seems kinda pointless,zendikar isn't destroyed and the plane will be back to normal when we get back.Someone should tell nahiri that her plane has been saved and its eldrazi free,maybe the countless nameless lives plus lorthos are worth destroying Avacyn and threatening another plane with something else justifies her actions.I still want to know how nahiri has managed to live so long and where she's been this whole time,don't think I've forgotten wizards.
Hmmm.
The Nahiri-hate is increasing, I see. Given her powerset and the fact that she was capable of orchestrating basically the downfall of an entire plane, could we see her elevated to being a Jacetus League Gatewatch-level villain a la Ob Nix?
The saddest part is that this whole revenge thing seems kinda pointless,zendikar isn't destroyed and the plane will be back to normal when we get back.Someone should tell nahiri that her plane has been saved and its eldrazi free,maybe the countless nameless lives plus lorthos are worth destroying Avacyn and threatening another plane with something else justifies her actions.I still want to know how nahiri has managed to live so long and where she's been this whole time,don't think I've forgotten wizards.
Is there ever a point to revenge?
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Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
You don't have to feel too sad. I essentially suffer the same pain, except on a planar scale - Kamigawa was the first plane when I got into MTG and despite the story being set 1000 years before the Block before it (Mirrodin), which means it is instantly open to any radical changes in a sequel, especially post Time-Spiral, WotC decided based on pre-EDH feedback data that the plane is going to get no more than some references to it (via Tamiyo, Kaseto and the occasional mention by Jace whenever the references pop up since he has been there before). MaRo even said that they would be more likely to just create another "Japanese-inspired" plane than return to Kamigawa in a Standard Block (granted he said that a long time back and things do change, but I'm still taking it as status quo until he says the opposite). Theros having parallels to Kamigawa's structure (though no completely) doesn't really help matters, either. The only consolation is that my favorite character still has a chance of being alive, by virtue of his ascension at the end of the novels.
Avacyn wasn't the only one who failed her mission - someone was tasked to protect Mirrodin (from New Phyrexia) a long time ago and he failed similarly. While he has remnants of reminder, even his origin artifact of power (which I would consider the vastly more important one) was tossed and forgotten completely in the sequel. Sure, he didn't feel a pang of guilt when he did what we could consider the same level of Avacyn did to his plane, but in fairness his actions didn't outright contradict his mission (he determined that he needed to contact Karn because he wasn't powerful enough to hold off the oil and the best way to do that was to get a spark for himself and Phyrexia (at least Yawgmoth back then) happens to be the premier party of that business, so he used part of their means in his madness), whereas Avacyn... didn't have this much thoughts in her madness.
At the very least the one who unmade Avacyn still seems compliant to protect the plane, not like a certain traitor.
Sorry if any of this listed examples made it sound condescending in any manner, it was not intended. I understand the pain you're going through, but because I'm not as attached to Avacyn as you are (and as Jenrik was to his character), the only way I could express similar levels of pain I felt was to raise the cases in the past that had more impact on myself instead.
No, I didn't take it an any bad or harsh way. And I get that comparatively to the fans of Kamigawa, we Avacyn fans don't have it nearly as bad. To quote Guardians of the Galaxy, "I see a bunch of losers. I....I mean, people who have lost stuff...."
So I really liked this one in just about all ways. Sad story obviously, but a very good one. I'm glad that Avacyn didn't die insane, and that she regained some measure of herself along with a realization of what she had done before the end. I also liked how she grew as a character and basically told Sorin that she wasn't taking anymore of his s***. Her reputation and legacy may be ruined forever but I think in her las moments she was more Avacyn, Angel of Hope than Avacyn, the Purifier. Really looking forward to both the long awaited reveal of "the Shadow" and how Sorin deals w/ Avacyn's death, in a few week's time.
Yeah, that at least buffered it for me somewhat. I'm glad she at least died trying to protect Innistrad rather than as a completely crazy Purifier.
Vorthos-player with way too much time on his hands and a love of thematic decks.
EDH - Yes, Each One is Named After a Song. I love tying music to my decks.
Avacyn was becoming lucid, too. Then he went and killed her despite her attacks bringing him no harm. Enjoy your new Emrakul. Hope she rips Innistrad to smithereens and eats Sorin.
No to the first, yes to the second. I love Innistrad. On the other hand, Sorin's whole "I'm an evil vampire, but deep down I have a heart of gold" thing isn't fooling me anymore. The jackass can eat it already.
All I can say now is that Nahiri better bite the big one at the end of EMN (... unless... Maro kinda hinted that the way she's acting may not turn out to be her fault either in an answer on his blog. Some kind of 'Why is Nahiri acting so non-white?' 'Let's wait and see how the whole story pans out before answering that one eh?' kind of comment). As much as I loved Avacyn (and Elspeth), Sorin is my real favourite character in MtG. If it ends up that he's the one who doesn't survive (to clear the way for a WB Elspeth?) I'll probably quit Magic.
For about a week
I still haven't got over Dream's demise in Sandman about twenty years ago though. Losing Sorin would be gutting. What can I say? I like clichéd gothic anti-heroes.
As evidenced by my answer above, I am the exact opposite. I'm fine with Sorin dying, but I couldn't stand losing Nahiri.
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"You say 'learn from history,' but that does not mean 'learn the same bull***** the people in history learned alongside phrenology and alchemy.'" - The Blinking Spirit
I'm in the awkward position of liking both Sorin and Nahiri. So unless they miraculously decide they can be friendsies again, I'm likely in for a kick in the feels no matter what.
Why are we assuming that Sorin had actually killed that many people. If we've learned anything from HBO, there may be hundreds of willing volunteers that gladly offer their life blood, so Sorin can survive for years without killing a single soul. He is half white, feasting on humans/animals may be a necessity, but actually killing, is not.
[quote from="Jenrik »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-storyline/675516-magic-story-articles-discussion-shadows-over?comment=1350"]
It's not that she has such amazing and dynamic characterization, it's the fact she had the potential to become so much more. She is a run of the mill angel, but she had a very unconventional origin. She wasn't just some random embodiment of goodness that coalesced from the natural forces of white on the plane, like most other angels. No, she was created by Sorin, a twisted, arrogant, and cruel monster who survives by killing others. Sorin requires one human worth of blood a month. He's over 6000 years old. That's 72,000 people Sorin has killed. 72,000. Think about that, and tell me Sorin isn't a monster. Now imagine having to live with the fact that you were created by that monster. Think of what a compelling story that could be! What's more, Avacyn is powered by human need. Her power grows when more humans are dying. I don't know about you, but that would make me question my existence. Such potential, all wasted.
I don't like this prejudice against vampires. Yes, they kill people, but otherwise they would starve to death. I disapprove how they can often act very gratuitously, but regarding their feeding habits, well, humans kill alot of animals to eat too, so we don't have the moral high ground to judge just because in this case we are not the ones at the top of the food chain. In fact, as you can see by the text of Bloodflow Conoisseur, as far as vampires go, Sorin has more respect for life than you give him credit for. If the guy is indeed a monster, it is not because of this 72000 kill count.
</blockquote>
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Once again, appreciate the compliment. Why must my best contribution to this wonderful forum be a eulogy to my beloved angel?!? I just wanted her to live, or at least die serving some greater purpose. Instead I got hit right in the feels.
EDH - Yes, Each One is Named After a Song. I love tying music to my decks.
B Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief B - Fear of the Dark
WG Sigarda, Heron's Grace WG - Strength in Numbers
RG Xenagos, God of Revels RG - Fullmoon (It's werewolves)
RW Archangel Avacyn // Avacyn, the Purifier RW - The End is Nigh
60 Card Kitchen Table Decks
WUB Avacyn, Spirit Ferrier
RG Arlinn Kord's Howlpack
Honestly, after BfZ and now possibly SoI, that might be the right thing for them to do. They are oddly very good at creating distilled settings, but their attempts at writing a story seem to end in the destruction of that setting far too readily. If they had focused on the setting entirely, Zendikar would still be an adventure world. Luckily it's Zendikar and what's left of the Mana there will heal the plane in a few years time, but Innistrad isn't so lucky.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Level 1 Judge (yay)
Sorin actually did something: wooo!
Point is you people's tears are delicious. >:D
Yeah I agree. That second paragraph is pretty much what I was trying to say. She needed more exposure for me to care. I don't think it even needed to be too much more exposure. One story, maybe two, would have been more than enough. Maybe with characters that have interested with her. Like Sigarda, or some random dude in a parish somewhere, or Arlinn Kord or something. Or having her madness stretch out over more than just one story. I kind of feel like she gets extra sympathy cause she was a pure good character and people like that stuff and to see her corrupted and fall is sad instead of interesting.
I actually like the overall storyline, with Angelic madness and the mysteries, and I enjoy that its not the main problem and is a symptom of something bigger, and I think "Innistrad as usually, just Nahiri is here," for set one would have been kind of boring. I just wish we got more of the angelic purge, but it seems I'm in the minority? It was at the least better than last block. Still lacking on execution, but not terrible.
All of that doesn't mean she was a good character. Her relationship with Sorin gives more character development with her death rather than her life, since that's just status quo as normal, and a new problem begins. Sure, Avacyn learning about herself and her origins would have been interesting, but this other way isn't bad. Its different but its not bad. There's a new problem, and assuming Innistrad doesn't explode or change drastically with Eldritch Moon (which it probably will). The next storyline might just be, how does Innistrad/Sorin/the Gatewatch deal with not having Avacyn. All sorts of questions open up. How do the people deal? How is the purge remembered? What takes the place of the faith/would they even know that Avacyn just hasn't disappeared again? What to the other, real angels do? Does Sigarda step up? Do the purging Angels get punished? How do they, beings of pure white mana deal with what they've done? How do they deal with no more Avacyn? How does Sorin deal with his grief? How does it affet his ability to deal with the Eldrazi? etc Plus everything isn't actually straight going to hell, since we know that the Vampires and Werewolves have been decimated, so we can assume that it wont be as bad as Dark Ascension.
Besides, Avacyn herself isn't special. She's just an Angel, without a personality and a lot of power, who had the potential to be a powerful angel with no personality, and now with angst now? Does she even have the emotional range to deal with that? It doesn't seem interesting to me because I don't really know how Avacyn viewed the world beforehand. All we got was a couple paragraphs in story two. (I actually think that there are a bunch of interesting question if she did survive, like how/if she is redeemed, but in my opinion that one isnt one of them) Sorin's the actual interesting character here, in my opinion and we get to see how he changes and develops.
You don't have to feel too sad. I essentially suffer the same pain, except on a planar scale - Kamigawa was the first plane when I got into MTG and despite the story being set 1000 years before the Block before it (Mirrodin), which means it is instantly open to any radical changes in a sequel, especially post Time-Spiral, WotC decided based on pre-EDH feedback data that the plane is going to get no more than some references to it (via Tamiyo, Kaseto and the occasional mention by Jace whenever the references pop up since he has been there before). MaRo even said that they would be more likely to just create another "Japanese-inspired" plane than return to Kamigawa in a Standard Block (granted he said that a long time back and things do change, but I'm still taking it as status quo until he says the opposite). Theros having parallels to Kamigawa's structure (though no completely) doesn't really help matters, either. The only consolation is that my favorite character still has a chance of being alive, by virtue of his ascension at the end of the novels.
Avacyn wasn't the only one who failed her mission - someone was tasked to protect Mirrodin (from New Phyrexia) a long time ago and he failed similarly. While he has remnants of reminder, even his origin artifact of power (which I would consider the vastly more important one) was tossed and forgotten completely in the sequel. Sure, he didn't feel a pang of guilt when he did what we could consider the same level of Avacyn did to his plane, but in fairness his actions didn't outright contradict his mission (he determined that he needed to contact Karn because he wasn't powerful enough to hold off the oil and the best way to do that was to get a spark for himself and Phyrexia (at least Yawgmoth back then) happens to be the premier party of that business, so he used part of their means in his madness), whereas Avacyn... didn't have this much thoughts in her madness.
At the very least the one who unmade Avacyn still seems compliant to protect the plane, not like a certain traitor.
Sorry if any of this listed examples made it sound condescending in any manner, it was not intended. I understand the pain you're going through, but because I'm not as attached to Avacyn as you are (and as Jenrik was to his character), the only way I could express similar levels of pain I felt was to raise the cases in the past that had more impact on myself instead.
Both blocks were kind of failures for greater audience. Lorwyn too cute and fairytale. Kamigawa because of choosing non-resonant and unfamiliar tropes. Time Spiral was kind of the same - too much nostalgia oriented and again sometimes undecipherable for non-invested players.. I cannot see them returning there,at least not in the way you want.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
I don't like this prejudice against vampires. Yes, they kill people, but otherwise they would starve to death. I disapprove how they can often act very gratuitously, but regarding their feeding habits, well, humans kill alot of animals to eat too, so we don't have the moral high ground to judge just because in this case we are not the ones at the top of the food chain. In fact, as you can see by the text of Bloodflow Conoisseur, as far as vampires go, Sorin has more respect for life than you give him credit for. If the guy is indeed a monster, it is not because of this 72000 kill count.
But that was in the comic, which they seemingly ignored since it also feature Sorin take a dagger from Dack that allows the user to control vampires.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Lol. It was a really good eulogy. :|
"You say 'learn from history,' but that does not mean 'learn the same bull***** the people in history learned alongside phrenology and alchemy.'" - The Blinking Spirit
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Man SOI was not a good return for me. I lost Jenrik and Avacyn.
Hope the next set has a Tamiyo PW card with elegant artwork at least...
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
If it makes you feel better, Avacyn - at three different legendary cards - has gotten more printings as a character than any non-planeswalker creature. I mean, I guess Iname, Uncle Karlov and Jeska technically had three printings each, but if you count the rear face technically Avacyn has four unique versions.
That's something, right?
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
For about a week
I still haven't got over Dream's demise in Sandman about twenty years ago though. Losing Sorin would be gutting. What can I say? I like clichéd gothic anti-heroes.
The Nahiri-hate is increasing, I see. Given her powerset and the fact that she was capable of orchestrating basically the downfall of an entire plane, could we see her elevated to being a
Jacetus LeagueGatewatch-level villain a la Ob Nix?Click the pic for more info.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
No, I didn't take it an any bad or harsh way. And I get that comparatively to the fans of Kamigawa, we Avacyn fans don't have it nearly as bad. To quote Guardians of the Galaxy, "I see a bunch of losers. I....I mean, people who have lost stuff...."
Yeah, that at least buffered it for me somewhat. I'm glad she at least died trying to protect Innistrad rather than as a completely crazy Purifier.
EDH - Yes, Each One is Named After a Song. I love tying music to my decks.
B Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief B - Fear of the Dark
WG Sigarda, Heron's Grace WG - Strength in Numbers
RG Xenagos, God of Revels RG - Fullmoon (It's werewolves)
RW Archangel Avacyn // Avacyn, the Purifier RW - The End is Nigh
60 Card Kitchen Table Decks
WUB Avacyn, Spirit Ferrier
RG Arlinn Kord's Howlpack
No to the first, yes to the second. I love Innistrad. On the other hand, Sorin's whole "I'm an evil vampire, but deep down I have a heart of gold" thing isn't fooling me anymore. The jackass can eat it already.
As evidenced by my answer above, I am the exact opposite. I'm fine with Sorin dying, but I couldn't stand losing Nahiri.
"You say 'learn from history,' but that does not mean 'learn the same bull***** the people in history learned alongside phrenology and alchemy.'" - The Blinking Spirit
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"