As much as I loved this story, at one point I couldn't stop laughing while I imagined this as a conversation between father and child, with the father starting the conversation with:
"Kid you are not alright, got down to the cellar with me I'll fix it"
Maybe you got the wrong starting here Sorin
The laughter helped over the feelings here unmaking left
Yeah, one of the lines that got me was this exchange:
""Let me help you, my child," the monster says. "I could...cleanse your mind. Make you a proper instrument of virtue again. I'll make you anew."
Never. "If I am not the daughter you want..." I say.
He winces."
It's sad, but it's also like a teenage girl arguing with her parent because the parent doesn't like the new phase they're going through. There's that little bit of Doug Beyer dialogue he has which is always funny and a bit immature. But yeah, laughter quickly turns back into a feel trip.
I agree with pretty much everything everyone has already posted, and wanted to add my take on Sorin's reaction - I think, deep down, he really didthink of Avacyn as a daughter, but refused to admit it to himself (he has only ever referred to her as "his angel" or "his creation") - which is why he reacted so badly to Avacyn making that statement (wincing, then angrily denouncing her as a mere creation).
In the same vein, I also wonder if Avacyn throwing the blame for her actions at his feet will have any lasting impact? While Avacyn seeing Sorin as a monster is (presumably) mainly due to the influence of Nahiri, there is a solid argument that Sorin is a monster, in the sense that he created Avacyn to keep the vampires from over-hunting their prey (and prevent other monsters from poaching their "cattle"). Avacyn had a moment of clarity as to what she was and had become before the end - will Sorin have the same? Sometimes, there is nothing more horrifying than seeing ourselves, not as we believe ourselves to be, but as we actually are.
Very true my friend. Very true. If anything gets through to Sorin, I think this would be it. Avacyn was the closest thing he had to family, since he never even mentions Edgar, and not only watching her die, but choosing to die rather than face the fact that he was her creator and accept that fact peacefully has to sting.
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Interesting story. The fight scenes mostly detracted me from the experience because of the excessive use of unnecessary description. Aside from that, there was some emotional tension that you could feel between the characters, even though I think Doug's writing is still a little childish when it comes to dialogues and such. The montage at the end was really nice, I think it was a good idea. As I saw the pictures a sort of epic music played back in my head.
Curious to see what is entering the plane. At least 3 more weeks of waiting...
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The story moment I've been dreading. And rightfully so.
The image montage and the idea of Avacyn wishing a final prayer for Innistrad in death really got me. As expected.
I'm just as disappointed as I am upset, honestly. Avacyn was one of my favorite characters, and I started the game with AVR as my first prerelease. I'll contain my wrath until the whole story is revealed. I can already see myself throwing a raging fit soon enough, though. Way to kill off the one refreshing thing about all this damn lore.
The ominous rumbling is clearly Emrkaul now entering Innistrad. The void left by Avacyn's unmaking has allowed the final segment of Nahiri's revenge to commence. That is the most wicked, unimaginable plot of vengeance I could ever imagine. Harming Avacyn. Killing innocents. Forcing Sorin to kill his own daughter. Innistrad losing its final hope. Emrakul called to and arriving to end the plane entirely at Sorin's own hands.
I haven't seen anyone talk about this neat little callback...
Quote from Ugin, Zendikar Resurgent »
"What have you done?"
Quote from Jace, I Am Avacyn »
"What have you done?"
If the reprocussions to the multiverse for ending Ulamog and Kozilek are half as dire as Sorin's unmaking of Avacyn, I can just imagine what the Gatewatch's ignorance in killing the titans will mean in the future.
Way to kill off the one refreshing thing about all this damn lore.
I understand feeling bad when an important character for you dies. I know the feeling, I know the anger, etc.
That said... how is Avacyn refreshing? A good angel protecting the people is not exactly new or refreshing, it is just same old same old. For instance I was much more infuriated by the death of Ulamog and Kozilek than I will ever be by Avacyn's demise. Say what you want, you may not like that she died because you cared about the character, but her death made sense. She fought a being more powerful than her that had to destroy her as last resort. You may dislike that the storyline decided to head in this direction, but it was consistent. Ulamog and Kozilek's deaths were not only unasked for, they were not consistent and nonsensical.
So yeah, I can understand not liking to lose the character, but her death was plausible.
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Way to kill off the one refreshing thing about all this damn lore.
I understand feeling bad when an important character for you dies. I know the feeling, I know the anger, etc.
That said... how is Avacyn refreshing? A good angel protecting the people is not exactly new or refreshing, it is just same old same old. For instance I was much more infuriated by the death of Ulamog and Kozilek than I will ever be by Avacyn's demise. Say what you want, you may not like that she died because you cared about the character, but her death made sense. She fought a being more powerful than her that had to destroy her as last resort. You may dislike that the storyline decided to head in this direction, but it was consistent. Ulamog and Kozilek's deaths were not only unasked for, they were not consistent and nonsensical.
So yeah, I can understand not liking to lose the character, but her death was plausible.
Because AVR was all about freeing Avacyn and celebrating that. It was claimed at the time that this was intended as WOTC finally giving the story a positive ending. Which they shied away from making entirely positive, claiming the darkness on Innistrad still lingered, but humanity's hope at least returned. Avacyn was also one of the only plane bosses we know who was aware of planeswalkers and actually had multiverse agendas, sending Vronos after Garuuk to retrieve and heal the planeswalker. She was a genuinely good and caring character, even beyond Innistrad . Which is a rare thing to find in the war and hopelessness emphasis of this game (which I resent and find one dimensional at this rate).
Guess we can't have anything nice.
It was refreshing having a character like Avacyn and an angel that might stick around. It's so annoying how angels in the story are treated, despite being the most popular creature type (perhaps next to or after Dragons). But whatever, let's just go back to herpy derpy killy willy demon silly.
]Because AVR was all about freeing Avacyn and celebrating that. It was claimed at the time that this was intended as WOTC finally giving the story a positive ending. Which they shied away from making entirely positive, claiming the darkness on Innistrad still lingered, but humanity's hope at least returned. Avacyn was also one of the only plane bosses we know who was aware of planeswalkers and actually had multiverse agendas, sending Vronos after Garuuk to retrieve and heal the planeswalker. She was a genuinely good and caring character, even beyond Innistrad . Which is a rare thing to find in the war and hopelessness emphasis of this game (which I resent and find one dimensional at this rate).
Guess we can't have anything nice.
It was refreshing having a character like Avacyn and an angel that might stick around. It's so annoying how angels in the story are treated, despite being the most popular creature type (perhaps next to or after Dragons). But whatever, let's just go back to herpy derpy killy willy demon silly.
Well, I can say for sure what would not have worked: going back to AVR. People didn't like Innistrad because it was all angels and hope and light, etc. People liked Innistrad because of its flavor of ghotic horror world. That's what people expect returning from Innistrad, and Maro made it pretty clear that BFZ was not well received because it returned to ROE instead of Zendikar (a thing that you yourself complained about a lot).
And finally, I think you're just mistaken. The lore of magic is loosely similar as to what you can expect from an RPG campaign, and that is not war and hopelessness, it is about conflict. Conflict is what keeps people moving inside an RPG game and generally in fiction storylines. There are always emphasis on the problems and on the bad things, because that's what the heroes or the adventures are there to solve. That's why you get so much emphasis on the threats, because the heroes need to make an active effort to keep them in check. Without conflict, fiction stories are bland (and I could argue that stories in general are bland without it). And not sure what you mean by 'not keeping things positive'. The very last story arc of BFZ in the end was all about saving a world from the threat of planar-wide destruction. The good guys won, the world is rebuilding, that is a positive ending. It is not an ending that I agree with, but it is one data point against what you claim this game to be all about.
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Im not convinced avacyn is dead to me it felt more like an origin story for a planeswalker - he started the the ritual and boom she got her spark and left the world
Way to kill off the one refreshing thing about all this damn lore.
I understand feeling bad when an important character for you dies. I know the feeling, I know the anger, etc.
That said... how is Avacyn refreshing? A good angel protecting the people is not exactly new or refreshing, it is just same old same old. For instance I was much more infuriated by the death of Ulamog and Kozilek than I will ever be by Avacyn's demise. Say what you want, you may not like that she died because you cared about the character, but her death made sense. She fought a being more powerful than her that had to destroy her as last resort. You may dislike that the storyline decided to head in this direction, but it was consistent. Ulamog and Kozilek's deaths were not only unasked for, they were not consistent and nonsensical.
So yeah, I can understand not liking to lose the character, but her death was plausible.
Because AVR was all about freeing Avacyn and celebrating that. It was claimed at the time that this was intended as WOTC finally giving the story a positive ending. Which they shied away from making entirely positive, claiming the darkness on Innistrad still lingered, but humanity's hope at least returned. Avacyn was also one of the only plane bosses we know who was aware of planeswalkers and actually had multiverse agendas, sending Vronos after Garuuk to retrieve and heal the planeswalker. She was a genuinely good and caring character, even beyond Innistrad . Which is a rare thing to find in the war and hopelessness emphasis of this game (which I resent and find one dimensional at this rate).
Guess we can't have anything nice.
It was refreshing having a character like Avacyn and an angel that might stick around. It's so annoying how angels in the story are treated, despite being the most popular creature type (perhaps next to or after Dragons). But whatever, let's just go back to herpy derpy killy willy demon silly.
Echoing that sentiment to an extent, Avacyn to me at least was my favorite character and unique because of her very nature. She's not one of the natural mana manifested angels seen throughout the universe. She was artifical, but at the same time a living, breathing being. I often wondered how she would react to or if she even knew of her origins. We learned a few years back that Mikaeus knew in some Uncharted Realms I forgot the name of, but it was never clear if Avacyn knew. The existential implications of an angel knowing she was made by a monster she was created to destroy always fascinated me. Would she react negatively? Would she begrudgingly see need for her creation behind it? Did Sorin even consider her as a daughter, or was it purely creation - creator?
Further, Avacyn, as Jenrik points out wasn't like Akroma. She was literally a planar shield that could not only stave off the threats throughout arguably the most dangerous plane in the multiverse, but she seemed genuinely to be invested in that goal above all else. Akroma was created out of a desire for vengeance; Avacyn was created to protect. She was essentially a Jesus allegory in the game, and I found that fascinating. She could kill demons, convert werewolves, ferry spirits to the afterlife and inspire thousands if not millions. That was pretty cool, for lack of a better term.
Like Jenrik, I got in during Dark Ascension, and was only in for 2 weeks when Avacyn Restored dropped. I went from wondering who this character was to seeing her power, and that was essentially my introduction to magic. As much as I like Gothit horror and understand the love for Innistrad and the Dark elements of its lore, I enjoyed and still enjoy AVACYN Restored because it was a set of duality. The Darkness of the world persisted, but there was hope with Avacyn, the Angel of.....hope. not a clever name, granted.
Also, when the first single I ever bought was an Avacyn that I still play regularly to this day, and I pulled that card a thousand times in our kitchen table decks when I'm dead if I draw any of the other 40 cards in my deck, I grew attached to the card and character. It's dumb, anecdotal evidence, but like anyone else, we all have one or two cards that we have certain attachments to, and Avacyn is mine.
So yeah, it hurts to see both a unique character and my entry to the game leave, essentially in the storyline of Innistrad not long after she had just returned. If we've seen 3 years of Innistrad roughly in our two blocks on the plane and brief core set visits, she's been gone for one and corrupted for close to another. And that sucks for those of us who are fans. And unlike Elspeth, she's not coming back. The stakes finally matter, and the price for my wish was my favorite character. I'm not a white player, and I'm not a huge angel fan like many are. They're alright, but not my thing as much as removal spells, wolves and ghosts are. But Avacyn was my exception, and I do agree angels get the raw end of stories way too frequently in the storyline. It's not even that she's merely dead; it's that they ruined her entire reputation along the way. She didn't die protecting her plane, or fulfilling her purpose. She died wanting to protect millions and freaking out realizing she had failed to do so. That hurts more than Elspeth dying after Heliod betrayed her, or Venser dying of disease or Gerrard sacrifice himself to destroy Yamgmoth. They all completed their missions. Avacyn failed hers, and no one on Innistrad will remember her in a monument like Akroma or in mosaics like Elspeth.
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Im not convinced avacyn is dead to me it felt more like an origin story for a planeswalker - he started the the ritual and boom she got her spark and left the world
Sadly, angels don't have a soul, so they can't be planeswalkers. The only way an angel could become a planeswalker was if someone from outside gave them a spark like how Karn got its spark from Venser.
I just realized that Jace had a complete reversal of opinion between this story and the last.
He went from seriously encouraging Tamiyo, while under extreme duress admittedly, to destroy Avacyn, to berating Sorin for doing it.
Tamiyo. The scroll. The iron scroll. You showed it to me. An old story. A powerful story. The survivors of a place that was lost...Serra's realm. That cataclysm, that power...the story fits. You know it does. You can stop this.
Even as she felt his agony, even as she felt him starting to die, with the knowledge that she would be next, she did not hesitate in the slightest in her reply.
And then? She is still defending this world, Jace, despite her madness. Did you ever make a promise, Jace? I made one, long ago. And promises aren't just to be kept when the keeping of them is easy. We make promises for times like this, when we desperately want to break them. No, Jace. The scroll stays closed.
"What—have you done?" Jace demanded.
Fumes rose from the burnt place on the floor, drifting up through shafts of light from one of the cathedral's skylights. Avacyn was no more. The cathedral felt overly large now, somehow. Too much space under the rafters. Too vacant.
Jace glanced back and forth between the space that had been Avacyn and Sorin's face. The vampire was trembling slightly, fists clenched around his sword, as if trying to hold an earthquake in his chest.
"I had to," Sorin whispered.
Jace made incredulous gestures with his hands, unable to figure out which of the eleven things wrong with that statement to insist on first. In the end, he turned to Tamiyo. "Did he have to?"
Tamiyo only frowned. She hiked her robes and squatted on the floor, reaching out with gloved fingertips to sample the ash remains. She rose, rubbing the ash between her fingers. She rested her hand on a small telescope on her belt, like a warrior touching a reassuring weapon, her eyes fixed on Jace. "This will have...consequences," she said.
Jace nodded. "The people of this world have lost a protector."
An extended, guttural bass rumble rolled across the sky, profound and booming. The sound thudded in Jace's chest and shook dust from the ceiling.
Tamiyo looked grave. "The plane has lost its protector," she said.
Normally, I'm all for the loose interpretation, but Tamiyo's response in Stories and Endings suggest Jace, immediately after realizing Avacyn was holding something back, still wanted her dead.
And then his response to the death in I Am Avacyn screams of "Wait, what, why did you kill her, I never wanted her dead."
Am I crazy for thinking this? Or am I just wound up about the events?
So yeah, it hurts to see both a unique character and my entry to the game leave, essentially in the storyline of Innistrad not long after she had just returned. If we've seen 3 years of Innistrad roughly in our two blocks on the plane and brief core set visits, she's been gone for one and corrupted for close to another. And that sucks for those of us who are fans. And unlike Elspeth, she's not coming back. The stakes finally matter, and the price for my wish was my favorite character. I'm not a white player, and I'm not a huge angel fan like many are. They're alright, but not my thing as much as removal spells, wolves and ghosts are. But Avacyn was my exception, and I do agree angels get the raw end of stories way too frequently in the storyline. It's not even that she's merely dead; it's that they ruined her entire reputation along the way. She didn't die protecting her plane, or fulfilling her purpose. She died wanting to protect millions and freaking out realizing she had failed to do so. That hurts more than Elspeth dying after Heliod betrayed her, or Venser dying of disease or Gerrard sacrifice himself to destroy Yamgmoth. They all completed their missions. Avacyn failed hers, and no one on Innistrad will remember her in a monument like Akroma or in mosaics like Elspeth.
This made me cry. It's a perfect summary of how much killing Avacyn sucks. Very provocative. Thank you.
I'm an amateur writer. I'm not very good, but I do understand plot structure, and more so, I understand character strengths and weaknesses. Reluctantly, I have to admit that for Innistrad to stay the "Gothic Horror Plane," Avacyn had to go. She is quite simply too powerful. Literally nothing can go wrong on Innistrad while she is free and fully sane. This means no conflict, which means no plot, which means a bunch of boring. The storyteller in me knows Avacyn needed to go. That doesn't stop me from hating it, though.
I honestly would have been fine with giving up Innistrad's status as the Gothic Horror Plane. With Avacyn returned, they could have focused on the lands beyond the one Germany-sized slice of land we've seen. Humans could explore other continents, encounter other were-creatures, maybe discover and awaken some ancient, pagan monsters buried there. Innistrad could still be the Horror Plane, it just wouldn't be as dark and cliche. Sadly, people who agree with me make up a minority of the fanbase.
And finally, there's Nahiri.
She just forced Sorin to kill his own child, which is a pretty monstrous thing to do. Not to mention all the other deaths and suffering she's caused by meddling with Innistrad. Sorin must really hate her, which is very worrying for me, as there is now a very real chance Nahiri won't make it past the end of the block. This is very sad for me, as it would mean my third white-aligned action girl would be dead. Seriously, how many empowered women does Wizards have to kill off? But...that's a completely different bridge, which I'll only cross if it comes down to it. I think I am starting to understand you, Jenrik, how it feels to have all your favorite characters killed off. I guess it comes with being a fan of the more minor characters. I don't hate Jace or any of the other Magic poster boys and girls, but it would be nice if the ones we root for caught a break every once in a while.
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"You say 'learn from history,' but that does not mean 'learn the same bull***** the people in history learned alongside phrenology and alchemy.'" - The Blinking Spirit
So yeah, it hurts to see both a unique character and my entry to the game leave, essentially in the storyline of Innistrad not long after she had just returned. If we've seen 3 years of Innistrad roughly in our two blocks on the plane and brief core set visits, she's been gone for one and corrupted for close to another. And that sucks for those of us who are fans. And unlike Elspeth, she's not coming back. The stakes finally matter, and the price for my wish was my favorite character. I'm not a white player, and I'm not a huge angel fan like many are. They're alright, but not my thing as much as removal spells, wolves and ghosts are. But Avacyn was my exception, and I do agree angels get the raw end of stories way too frequently in the storyline. It's not even that she's merely dead; it's that they ruined her entire reputation along the way. She didn't die protecting her plane, or fulfilling her purpose. She died wanting to protect millions and freaking out realizing she had failed to do so. That hurts more than Elspeth dying after Heliod betrayed her, or Venser dying of disease or Gerrard sacrifice himself to destroy Yamgmoth. They all completed their missions. Avacyn failed hers, and no one on Innistrad will remember her in a monument like Akroma or in mosaics like Elspeth.
This made me cry. It's a perfect summary of how much killing Avacyn sucks. Very provocative. Thank you.
I'm an amateur writer. I'm not very good, but I do understand plot structure, and more so, I understand character strengths and weaknesses. Reluctantly, I have to admit that for Innistrad to stay the "Gothic Horror Plane," Avacyn had to go. She is quite simply too powerful. Literally nothing can go wrong on Innistrad while she is free and fully sane. This means no conflict, which means no plot, which means a bunch of boring. The storyteller in me knows Avacyn needed to go. That doesn't stop me from hating it, though.
I honestly would have been fine with giving up Innistrad's status as the Gothic Horror Plane. With Avacyn returned, they could have focused on the lands beyond the one Germany-sized slice of land we've seen. Humans could explore other continents, encounter other were-creatures, maybe discover and awaken some ancient, pagan monsters buried there. Innistrad could still be the Horror Plane, it just wouldn't be as dark and cliche. Sadly, people who agree with me make up a minority of the fanbase.
And finally, there's Nahiri.
She just forced Sorin to kill his own child, which is a pretty monstrous thing to do. Not to mention all the other deaths and suffering she's caused by meddling with Innistrad. Sorin must really hate her, which is very worrying for me, as there is now a very real chance Nahiri won't make it past the end of the block. This is very sad for me, as it would mean my third white-aligned action girl would be dead. Seriously, how many empowered women does Wizards have to kill off? But...that's a completely different bridge, which I'll only cross if it comes down to it. I think I am starting to understand you, Jenrik, how it feels to have all your favorite characters killed off. I guess it comes with being a fan of the more minor characters. I don't hate Jace or any of the other Magic poster boys and girls, but it would be nice the one we root for caught a break every once in a while.
I appreciate the compliment, although I'm sorry that my summary had to come at the expense of a character we both seemed to really enjoy.
Yeah, today we join Jenrik at the table of misery. I also agree I think there was a way to have our cake and eat it too. I thought for months what would happen in the return to Innistrad was Avacyn's power fading. She could lose the invulnerability of her Helvault-release self and struggle to keep the balance on Innistrad, with Sorin returning to explain to her why she could never be 100% effective and her forced coming to grips with that reality. Essentially a story where the first set was Dark Ascension-esque, putting humanity on the brink of survival and thenow a second set where they begin to recover, only to know it would be a fleeting peace. I'd take a depowered Avacyn over a Purifier if it meant she lived. :'(
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Kind of a pointless death if you ask me. Don't get me wrong, I'm always happy for a game of thrones where main characters drop... But why? If she got randomly stabbed by an enemy and killed it would have been better.
Why couldn't he press the reset button? He seemed like he could have. Or remake her? I understood the hellvault but not her.
"You can't destroy me"
Is indestructible
"Ohhh really now?"
*exiles*
They couldn't kill Thassa, an immortal god, so she just got screwed over instead. For now.
Emrakul is trying to enter Innistrad, and Nahiri is there wreaking havoc. We didn't need Avacyn or the angels going mad, let alone dying. There's enough conflict material. Avacyn is also no match for Emrakul. Granted it can't be a threat without Avacyn gone, but it didn't need to be the end boss either. Nahiri easily can be, with Emrakul lingering at Innistrad's planar boundaries giving a sense of anxiety and tension.
There's just this nauseating need to overdo it. Even in my favorite story, Godsend and Theros, the gods turning on mortals in an apocalypse-type fashion was just absurd and unnecessary. Greek mythology has gods meddling, not outright purging humanity. The minotaur war, Xenagos and Elspeth, etc. were conflict enough. Flesh those out instead of hurling conflicts at the lore.
Avacyn was killed to keep Innistrad strictly Gothic Horror World - which, believe it or not, is the opposite of what killing her did. Innistrad is no longer Gothic Horror World. It's basically Grixis now. Humans are doomed, the horrors are not kept in check, and half the point of modeling Avacyn as a MTG Virgin Mary and centering a church around her akin to the dark ages Catholic church is what gives Gothic Horror its secrecy, its themes of committing terrible acts that conflict with church doctrine in private labs, under cover of the night, of the people needing a redeemer in the first place. The persecution of hidden sorcery bred ingenuity and hushed controversy. The contrast is what makes Gothic Horror dark. Sometimes the extreme nature of the Church, a White force in itself, in pursuing the evils it condemns is even part of the horror itself. It leads to a questioning of one's personal morality. Such as burning at the stake, etc. The contrast isn't there. The conflicting force isn't there. In the future, hell, humans won't even be there. The mad scientists can do their worst unopposed. It's basically a villain free-for-all. And don't bring up Sigarda, either. Even with Avacyn, the evils couldn't be entirely purged.
A major theme of horror is being subjected to the unknown. Well, there's no reason for secrecy and cleverness now.
This story just felt epic to me. The Avacyn images at the end made me kind of sad. Hopefully Nahiri meets the same fate in the next block. It would show that Wizards is really committed to the story.
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I just realized that Jace had a complete reversal of opinion between this story and the last.
He went from seriously encouraging Tamiyo, while under extreme duress admittedly, to destroy Avacyn, to berating Sorin for doing it.
Tamiyo. The scroll. The iron scroll. You showed it to me. An old story. A powerful story. The survivors of a place that was lost...Serra's realm. That cataclysm, that power...the story fits. You know it does. You can stop this.
Even as she felt his agony, even as she felt him starting to die, with the knowledge that she would be next, she did not hesitate in the slightest in her reply.
And then? She is still defending this world, Jace, despite her madness. Did you ever make a promise, Jace? I made one, long ago. And promises aren't just to be kept when the keeping of them is easy. We make promises for times like this, when we desperately want to break them. No, Jace. The scroll stays closed.
"What—have you done?" Jace demanded.
Fumes rose from the burnt place on the floor, drifting up through shafts of light from one of the cathedral's skylights. Avacyn was no more. The cathedral felt overly large now, somehow. Too much space under the rafters. Too vacant.
Jace glanced back and forth between the space that had been Avacyn and Sorin's face. The vampire was trembling slightly, fists clenched around his sword, as if trying to hold an earthquake in his chest.
"I had to," Sorin whispered.
Jace made incredulous gestures with his hands, unable to figure out which of the eleven things wrong with that statement to insist on first. In the end, he turned to Tamiyo. "Did he have to?"
Tamiyo only frowned. She hiked her robes and squatted on the floor, reaching out with gloved fingertips to sample the ash remains. She rose, rubbing the ash between her fingers. She rested her hand on a small telescope on her belt, like a warrior touching a reassuring weapon, her eyes fixed on Jace. "This will have...consequences," she said.
Jace nodded. "The people of this world have lost a protector."
An extended, guttural bass rumble rolled across the sky, profound and booming. The sound thudded in Jace's chest and shook dust from the ceiling.
Tamiyo looked grave. "The plane has lost its protector," she said.
Normally, I'm all for the loose interpretation, but Tamiyo's response in Stories and Endings suggest Jace, immediately after realizing Avacyn was holding something back, still wanted her dead.
And then his response to the death in I Am Avacyn screams of "Wait, what, why did you kill her, I never wanted her dead."
Am I crazy for thinking this? Or am I just wound up about the events?
I guess the scroll's story wouldn't kill Avacyn, although it'll still have repercussions. It doesn't improve Jace's image though IMO, especially when he himself only just understood Avacyn's necessity minutes ago when he entered her mind.
While I'm positive this is the kind of reaction creative was hoping for I'm a little surprised. Avacyn had little to no characterization. To me she didn't seem like anything more than your run-of-the-mill angel who kinda seemed like a robot and was extremely powerful, which, to me, wasn't super compelling as a character, so I got no attachment to her and I'm a little surprised at the reaction, since in my opinion, her lack of characterization was a huge flaw in the SOI story line. Maybe I'm in the minority? I do agree with Ashiok that at least, from a storytelling and logic perspective this death, as opposed to BFZ/OGW's Eldrazi death, makes much more sense and for me makes it much less sour.
I really wish we had a couple more SOI stories, however. For me, like I said, I didn't really find Avacyn as a compelling character, and I was a quite surprised at how absent she was from the storyline. I kind of expected another story about her purge, maybe a comparison with what she was before or something, just more because I felt like I didn't really know Avacyn.
While I'm positive this is the kind of reaction creative was hoping for I'm a little surprised. Avacyn had little to no characterization. To me she didn't seem like anything more than your run-of-the-mill angel who kinda seemed like a robot and was extremely powerful, which, to me, wasn't super compelling as a character, so I got no attachment to her and I'm a little surprised at the reaction, since in my opinion, her lack of characterization was a huge flaw in the SOI story line. Maybe I'm in the minority? I do agree with Ashiok that at least, from a storytelling and logic perspective this death, as opposed to BFZ/OGW's Eldrazi death, makes much more sense and for me makes it much less sour.
I really wish we had a couple more SOI stories, however. For me, like I said, I didn't really find Avacyn as a compelling character, and I was a quite surprised at how absent she was from the storyline. I kind of expected another story about her purge, maybe a comparison with what she was before or something, just more because I felt like I didn't really know Avacyn.
Wizards cheated a bit on the emotional connection because Avacyn has a fan base because she's a hero with cards that are good in the trading card game, resulting in the average intended reader filling in the blanks for Creative just enough (see also: Elspeth Tirel). And to be honest, Wizards could have executed this worse. Coming into Shadows over Innistrad, it's one lesson I had hoped that Wizards of the Coast learned from Battle for Zendikar (there's a lot I hope they learned, but let's stick with this one at the moment). For example, the death of Ashaya would have had more of an impact if its name had been Omnath.
That being said, I did bring up this problem last week because I realized Avacyn went mad in story 2, and then we proceeded to not see anything about her until story 11. While dunno what Wizards could have done (if there were more fights with angels, there's a HIGH risk of the overabundance of Eldrazi brood fights in BFZ storyline), but just leaving her out of the story for 9 weeks may have taken the problem to the other end of the spectrum (I don't count her glorified cameo fighting Nahiri in a flashback).
First thing first.... I can imagine Sorin crashing in from the ceiling had he been a Falkenrath, but as is.... I don't know if I should laugh
The story feels a bit rushed to me, and personally I don't like the first person narrative here. If Doug insisted on first-person, it probably would've been nicer had we seen Sorin's POV too, a double first-person narratives (or at least, first person for Avacyn, third person for Sorin). Like, how he noticed Avacyn in the cathedral, how he noticed Avacyn not being in her right mind, how he felt when Avacyn rebelled against him... maybe that could be saved for another article, but I doubt that. And for all the potential for emotional outburst, the way Avacyn remembers Sorin as her creator and their eventual deathmatch was written a bit devoid of emotion, as in I can't really say that is even meant to sound sad at all... or maybe I just need some viols.
Oh well. Agreed though, that the images at the end are a nice touch.
EDIT: Oh god... I suddenly get Devil May Cry 4 vibes in this story White-haired dudes Sorin/Dante crashing in from the ceiling of a goddamn church, then kills the head of the church Avacyn/Sanctus, and the young hero Jace/ Nero got shocked, and somewhere else Nahiri is summoning the Eldritch Moon a.k.a The Savior using cryptoliths/hellgates.... ok, shoot me now please
]Because AVR was all about freeing Avacyn and celebrating that. It was claimed at the time that this was intended as WOTC finally giving the story a positive ending. Which they shied away from making entirely positive, claiming the darkness on Innistrad still lingered, but humanity's hope at least returned. Avacyn was also one of the only plane bosses we know who was aware of planeswalkers and actually had multiverse agendas, sending Vronos after Garuuk to retrieve and heal the planeswalker. She was a genuinely good and caring character, even beyond Innistrad . Which is a rare thing to find in the war and hopelessness emphasis of this game (which I resent and find one dimensional at this rate).
Guess we can't have anything nice.
It was refreshing having a character like Avacyn and an angel that might stick around. It's so annoying how angels in the story are treated, despite being the most popular creature type (perhaps next to or after Dragons). But whatever, let's just go back to herpy derpy killy willy demon silly.
Well, I can say for sure what would not have worked: going back to AVR. People didn't like Innistrad because it was all angels and hope and light, etc. People liked Innistrad because of its flavor of ghotic horror world. That's what people expect returning from Innistrad, and Maro made it pretty clear that BFZ was not well received because it returned to ROE instead of Zendikar (a thing that you yourself complained about a lot).
And finally, I think you're just mistaken. The lore of magic is loosely similar as to what you can expect from an RPG campaign, and that is not war and hopelessness, it is about conflict. Conflict is what keeps people moving inside an RPG game and generally in fiction storylines. There are always emphasis on the problems and on the bad things, because that's what the heroes or the adventures are there to solve. That's why you get so much emphasis on the threats, because the heroes need to make an active effort to keep them in check. Without conflict, fiction stories are bland (and I could argue that stories in general are bland without it). And not sure what you mean by 'not keeping things positive'. The very last story arc of BFZ in the end was all about saving a world from the threat of planar-wide destruction. The good guys won, the world is rebuilding, that is a positive ending. It is not an ending that I agree with, but it is one data point against what you claim this game to be all about.
Kinda funny how Jenrik keeps picking the wrong side of defined setting.
In BFZ,he was all rage about "where is my adventure world????", despite it being clear above all doubt that we are seeing a sequel to RoE,not ZEN-WWK.
Now,Wizards did the right thing - going back to Innistrad,not AVR. And it is wrong again.
I understand your sentiment,Jenrik (well,more than your irrational love for blue),but the death of Avacyn will probably serve greater purpose - I can see finally some character development for a couple of people,preferably Sorin.
What we lost was an unique concept of a character (given her creation and the magic balance),that I am not denying.
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100% Vorthos Spike and Storyline Expert
Former Fact Prospector of the Greek Alliance.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
They couldn't kill Thassa, an immortal god, so she just got screwed over instead. For now.
Emrakul is trying to enter Innistrad, and Nahiri is there wreaking havoc. We didn't need Avacyn or the angels going mad, let alone dying. There's enough conflict material. Avacyn is also no match for Emrakul. Granted it can't be a threat without Avacyn gone, but it didn't need to be the end boss either. Nahiri easily can be, with Emrakul lingering at Innistrad's planar boundaries giving a sense of anxiety and tension.
There's just this nauseating need to overdo it. Even in my favorite story, Godsend and Theros, the gods turning on mortals in an apocalypse-type fashion was just absurd and unnecessary. Greek mythology has gods meddling, not outright purging humanity. The minotaur war, Xenagos and Elspeth, etc. were conflict enough. Flesh those out instead of hurling conflicts at the lore.
Of course they overdo it. Wizards is a company. Their primary goal is selling products. They do that by attracting players with big, flashy hooks. Over the top, world changing plots with huge stakes and huge battles. Epic on every scale, because bigger is always better. They will do anything to make the story seem exciting and intense. It's ironic, because in doing so, they suck out the thrill for those who take the time to follow the story more closely.
Avacyn was killed to keep Innistrad strictly Gothic Horror World - which, believe it or not, is the opposite of what killing her did. Innistrad is no longer Gothic Horror World. It's basically Grixis now. Humans are doomed, the horrors are not kept in check, and half the point of modeling Avacyn as a MTG Virgin Mary and centering a church around her akin to the dark ages Catholic church is what gives Gothic Horror its secrecy, its themes of committing terrible acts that conflict with church doctrine in private labs, under cover of the night, of the people needing a redeemer in the first place. The persecution of hidden sorcery bred ingenuity and hushed controversy. The contrast is what makes Gothic Horror dark. Sometimes the extreme nature of the Church, a White force in itself, in pursuing the evils it condemns is even part of the horror itself. It leads to a questioning of one's personal morality. Such as burning at the stake, etc. The contrast isn't there. The conflicting force isn't there. In the future, hell, humans won't even be there. The mad scientists can do their worst unopposed. It's basically a villain free-for-all. And don't bring up Sigarda, either. Even with Avacyn, the evils couldn't be entirely purged.
A major theme of horror is being subjected to the unknown. Well, there's no reason for secrecy and cleverness now.
That's just it. Everyone talks about how Innistrad is a black-aligned world, but it's not. It's a black and white world.
Horror isn't the nameless things that go bump in the night, it's the things they hunt. It's the desperate humans, clinging to life and hope and light, as the darkness closes in around them. It's the heroism of fighting back, even if it's pointless. A7xjoker33 proposed an excellent idea. Avacyn is was powered by the humans' need for her protection. Humans were desperate during the Dark Ascension, so when she was released, she had access to god-like power. Eventually, as humans recovered, her strength would decrease, and a balance would be struck. But no, an ordinary day in a dark, twisted horror plane isn't enough for Wizards. It has to be the end of the world, or else it doesn't matter.
While I'm positive this is the kind of reaction creative was hoping for I'm a little surprised. Avacyn had little to no characterization. To me she didn't seem like anything more than your run-of-the-mill angel who kinda seemed like a robot and was extremely powerful, which, to me, wasn't super compelling as a character, so I got no attachment to her and I'm a little surprised at the reaction, since in my opinion, her lack of characterization was a huge flaw in the SOI story line. Maybe I'm in the minority? I do agree with Ashiok that at least, from a storytelling and logic perspective this death, as opposed to BFZ/OGW's Eldrazi death, makes much more sense and for me makes it much less sour.
It's not that she has such amazing and dynamic characterization, it's the fact she had the potential to become so much more. She is a run of the mill angel, but she had a very unconventional origin. She wasn't just some random embodiment of goodness that coalesced from the natural forces of white on the plane, like most other angels. No, she was created by Sorin, a twisted, arrogant, and cruel monster who survives by killing others. Sorin requires one human worth of blood a month. He's over 6000 years old. That's 72,000 people Sorin has killed. 72,000. Think about that, and tell me Sorin isn't a monster. Now imagine having to live with the fact that you were created by that monster. Think of what a compelling story that could be! What's more, Avacyn is powered by human need. Her power grows when more humans are dying. I don't know about you, but that would make me question my existence. Such potential, all wasted.
Then again, who am I kidding? Like I said, Wizards is just a company. They'll do whatever cheap thrills sell products. We're lucky to get even a cohesive narrative, and not just some general flavor for the setting. Us Vorthos, were just a handful of players chatting in a little corner of the Internet. We pull the story apart, immerse ourselves in the flavor, more than anyone else, but we're just a small sliver of the audience. Our specific happiness barely has any effect on the amount of product Wizards sells. Why should they twist their storytelling team in knots trying to please some whiny, demanding niche of fans? We're just not worth it.
...Wow. I really hit a despair event horizon there, didn't I?
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Vorthos Cartography - Check out my completed maps of Zendikar and Innistrad!
"You say 'learn from history,' but that does not mean 'learn the same bull***** the people in history learned alongside phrenology and alchemy.'" - The Blinking Spirit
Bigger is not better. Quality is better. Doing more with less is preferred over hemorrhaging out conflicts in every set.
To be fair, even MaRo agreed not returning to Adventure World was an issue. Funny how Lorwyn was just oh so terrible for being a tribal focused set, yet Eldrazi World with a splash of Allies would be such a great idea?
Lorwyn is a beautiful idyllic paradise that should be visited after Kamigawa. And MaRo, Market Research, and Hasbro are just going to deal.
So yeah, it hurts to see both a unique character and my entry to the game leave, essentially in the storyline of Innistrad not long after she had just returned. If we've seen 3 years of Innistrad roughly in our two blocks on the plane and brief core set visits, she's been gone for one and corrupted for close to another. And that sucks for those of us who are fans. And unlike Elspeth, she's not coming back. The stakes finally matter, and the price for my wish was my favorite character. I'm not a white player, and I'm not a huge angel fan like many are. They're alright, but not my thing as much as removal spells, wolves and ghosts are. But Avacyn was my exception, and I do agree angels get the raw end of stories way too frequently in the storyline. It's not even that she's merely dead; it's that they ruined her entire reputation along the way. She didn't die protecting her plane, or fulfilling her purpose. She died wanting to protect millions and freaking out realizing she had failed to do so. That hurts more than Elspeth dying after Heliod betrayed her, or Venser dying of disease or Gerrard sacrifice himself to destroy Yamgmoth. They all completed their missions. Avacyn failed hers, and no one on Innistrad will remember her in a monument like Akroma or in mosaics like Elspeth.
Dang, this write up turned me to ash coz of feels...
because that's the end point to it, unlike the Neowalkers/Jacetice League, getting this, Avacyn will not return.
Some may hate the first-person POV, but to me it somehow lent something to the story. (p.s. Should've not read this story while I was about to go to sleep and having health issue paranoia)
It's almost moot to continue to beach and moan about her death, because it will just fall into deaf ears anyway... as long as the Gameplay people are attended to.
I'm just wishing that Sigarda will kick arse in her place in Eldritch Moon (still crossing my fingers and toes that she be the next Angelic Leader in Innistrad)
else, I'm gonna see you folks in the next return to Ravnica (or whichever set/block is gonna have angels), where I know something bad will happen to Aurelia, because Magic, as we know it, likes torturing angels.
Nice as the story is, I echo the thoughts on killing Avacyn being overkill. I think managing to restore Avacyn and the Angels would have been enough given that the madness is still a thing. It makes Innistrad surviving rather implausible if that's how it ends.
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Very true my friend. Very true. If anything gets through to Sorin, I think this would be it. Avacyn was the closest thing he had to family, since he never even mentions Edgar, and not only watching her die, but choosing to die rather than face the fact that he was her creator and accept that fact peacefully has to sting.
EDH - Yes, Each One is Named After a Song. I love tying music to my decks.
B Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief B - Fear of the Dark
WG Sigarda, Heron's Grace WG - Strength in Numbers
RG Xenagos, God of Revels RG - Fullmoon (It's werewolves)
RW Archangel Avacyn // Avacyn, the Purifier RW - The End is Nigh
60 Card Kitchen Table Decks
WUB Avacyn, Spirit Ferrier
RG Arlinn Kord's Howlpack
Curious to see what is entering the plane. At least 3 more weeks of waiting...
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).
The image montage and the idea of Avacyn wishing a final prayer for Innistrad in death really got me. As expected.
I'm just as disappointed as I am upset, honestly. Avacyn was one of my favorite characters, and I started the game with AVR as my first prerelease. I'll contain my wrath until the whole story is revealed. I can already see myself throwing a raging fit soon enough, though. Way to kill off the one refreshing thing about all this damn lore.
The ominous rumbling is clearly Emrkaul now entering Innistrad. The void left by Avacyn's unmaking has allowed the final segment of Nahiri's revenge to commence. That is the most wicked, unimaginable plot of vengeance I could ever imagine. Harming Avacyn. Killing innocents. Forcing Sorin to kill his own daughter. Innistrad losing its final hope. Emrakul called to and arriving to end the plane entirely at Sorin's own hands.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
That said... how is Avacyn refreshing? A good angel protecting the people is not exactly new or refreshing, it is just same old same old. For instance I was much more infuriated by the death of Ulamog and Kozilek than I will ever be by Avacyn's demise. Say what you want, you may not like that she died because you cared about the character, but her death made sense. She fought a being more powerful than her that had to destroy her as last resort. You may dislike that the storyline decided to head in this direction, but it was consistent. Ulamog and Kozilek's deaths were not only unasked for, they were not consistent and nonsensical.
So yeah, I can understand not liking to lose the character, but her death was plausible.
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).
Guess we can't have anything nice.
It was refreshing having a character like Avacyn and an angel that might stick around. It's so annoying how angels in the story are treated, despite being the most popular creature type (perhaps next to or after Dragons). But whatever, let's just go back to herpy derpy killy willy demon silly.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
And finally, I think you're just mistaken. The lore of magic is loosely similar as to what you can expect from an RPG campaign, and that is not war and hopelessness, it is about conflict. Conflict is what keeps people moving inside an RPG game and generally in fiction storylines. There are always emphasis on the problems and on the bad things, because that's what the heroes or the adventures are there to solve. That's why you get so much emphasis on the threats, because the heroes need to make an active effort to keep them in check. Without conflict, fiction stories are bland (and I could argue that stories in general are bland without it). And not sure what you mean by 'not keeping things positive'. The very last story arc of BFZ in the end was all about saving a world from the threat of planar-wide destruction. The good guys won, the world is rebuilding, that is a positive ending. It is not an ending that I agree with, but it is one data point against what you claim this game to be all about.
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).
Echoing that sentiment to an extent, Avacyn to me at least was my favorite character and unique because of her very nature. She's not one of the natural mana manifested angels seen throughout the universe. She was artifical, but at the same time a living, breathing being. I often wondered how she would react to or if she even knew of her origins. We learned a few years back that Mikaeus knew in some Uncharted Realms I forgot the name of, but it was never clear if Avacyn knew. The existential implications of an angel knowing she was made by a monster she was created to destroy always fascinated me. Would she react negatively? Would she begrudgingly see need for her creation behind it? Did Sorin even consider her as a daughter, or was it purely creation - creator?
Further, Avacyn, as Jenrik points out wasn't like Akroma. She was literally a planar shield that could not only stave off the threats throughout arguably the most dangerous plane in the multiverse, but she seemed genuinely to be invested in that goal above all else. Akroma was created out of a desire for vengeance; Avacyn was created to protect. She was essentially a Jesus allegory in the game, and I found that fascinating. She could kill demons, convert werewolves, ferry spirits to the afterlife and inspire thousands if not millions. That was pretty cool, for lack of a better term.
Like Jenrik, I got in during Dark Ascension, and was only in for 2 weeks when Avacyn Restored dropped. I went from wondering who this character was to seeing her power, and that was essentially my introduction to magic. As much as I like Gothit horror and understand the love for Innistrad and the Dark elements of its lore, I enjoyed and still enjoy AVACYN Restored because it was a set of duality. The Darkness of the world persisted, but there was hope with Avacyn, the Angel of.....hope. not a clever name, granted.
Also, when the first single I ever bought was an Avacyn that I still play regularly to this day, and I pulled that card a thousand times in our kitchen table decks when I'm dead if I draw any of the other 40 cards in my deck, I grew attached to the card and character. It's dumb, anecdotal evidence, but like anyone else, we all have one or two cards that we have certain attachments to, and Avacyn is mine.
So yeah, it hurts to see both a unique character and my entry to the game leave, essentially in the storyline of Innistrad not long after she had just returned. If we've seen 3 years of Innistrad roughly in our two blocks on the plane and brief core set visits, she's been gone for one and corrupted for close to another. And that sucks for those of us who are fans. And unlike Elspeth, she's not coming back. The stakes finally matter, and the price for my wish was my favorite character. I'm not a white player, and I'm not a huge angel fan like many are. They're alright, but not my thing as much as removal spells, wolves and ghosts are. But Avacyn was my exception, and I do agree angels get the raw end of stories way too frequently in the storyline. It's not even that she's merely dead; it's that they ruined her entire reputation along the way. She didn't die protecting her plane, or fulfilling her purpose. She died wanting to protect millions and freaking out realizing she had failed to do so. That hurts more than Elspeth dying after Heliod betrayed her, or Venser dying of disease or Gerrard sacrifice himself to destroy Yamgmoth. They all completed their missions. Avacyn failed hers, and no one on Innistrad will remember her in a monument like Akroma or in mosaics like Elspeth.
EDH - Yes, Each One is Named After a Song. I love tying music to my decks.
B Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief B - Fear of the Dark
WG Sigarda, Heron's Grace WG - Strength in Numbers
RG Xenagos, God of Revels RG - Fullmoon (It's werewolves)
RW Archangel Avacyn // Avacyn, the Purifier RW - The End is Nigh
60 Card Kitchen Table Decks
WUB Avacyn, Spirit Ferrier
RG Arlinn Kord's Howlpack
http://dougbeyermtg.tumblr.com/post/75165463387/although-demons-and-angels-cant-get-the-spark
He went from seriously encouraging Tamiyo, while under extreme duress admittedly, to destroy Avacyn, to berating Sorin for doing it.
Tamiyo. The scroll. The iron scroll. You showed it to me. An old story. A powerful story. The survivors of a place that was lost...Serra's realm. That cataclysm, that power...the story fits. You know it does. You can stop this.
Even as she felt his agony, even as she felt him starting to die, with the knowledge that she would be next, she did not hesitate in the slightest in her reply.
And then? She is still defending this world, Jace, despite her madness. Did you ever make a promise, Jace? I made one, long ago. And promises aren't just to be kept when the keeping of them is easy. We make promises for times like this, when we desperately want to break them. No, Jace. The scroll stays closed.
"What—have you done?" Jace demanded.
Fumes rose from the burnt place on the floor, drifting up through shafts of light from one of the cathedral's skylights. Avacyn was no more. The cathedral felt overly large now, somehow. Too much space under the rafters. Too vacant.
Jace glanced back and forth between the space that had been Avacyn and Sorin's face. The vampire was trembling slightly, fists clenched around his sword, as if trying to hold an earthquake in his chest.
"I had to," Sorin whispered.
Jace made incredulous gestures with his hands, unable to figure out which of the eleven things wrong with that statement to insist on first. In the end, he turned to Tamiyo. "Did he have to?"
Tamiyo only frowned. She hiked her robes and squatted on the floor, reaching out with gloved fingertips to sample the ash remains. She rose, rubbing the ash between her fingers. She rested her hand on a small telescope on her belt, like a warrior touching a reassuring weapon, her eyes fixed on Jace. "This will have...consequences," she said.
Jace nodded. "The people of this world have lost a protector."
An extended, guttural bass rumble rolled across the sky, profound and booming. The sound thudded in Jace's chest and shook dust from the ceiling.
Tamiyo looked grave. "The plane has lost its protector," she said.
Normally, I'm all for the loose interpretation, but Tamiyo's response in Stories and Endings suggest Jace, immediately after realizing Avacyn was holding something back, still wanted her dead.
And then his response to the death in I Am Avacyn screams of "Wait, what, why did you kill her, I never wanted her dead."
Am I crazy for thinking this? Or am I just wound up about the events?
This made me cry. It's a perfect summary of how much killing Avacyn sucks. Very provocative. Thank you.
I'm an amateur writer. I'm not very good, but I do understand plot structure, and more so, I understand character strengths and weaknesses. Reluctantly, I have to admit that for Innistrad to stay the "Gothic Horror Plane," Avacyn had to go. She is quite simply too powerful. Literally nothing can go wrong on Innistrad while she is free and fully sane. This means no conflict, which means no plot, which means a bunch of boring. The storyteller in me knows Avacyn needed to go. That doesn't stop me from hating it, though.
I honestly would have been fine with giving up Innistrad's status as the Gothic Horror Plane. With Avacyn returned, they could have focused on the lands beyond the one Germany-sized slice of land we've seen. Humans could explore other continents, encounter other were-creatures, maybe discover and awaken some ancient, pagan monsters buried there. Innistrad could still be the Horror Plane, it just wouldn't be as dark and cliche. Sadly, people who agree with me make up a minority of the fanbase.
And finally, there's Nahiri.
She just forced Sorin to kill his own child, which is a pretty monstrous thing to do. Not to mention all the other deaths and suffering she's caused by meddling with Innistrad. Sorin must really hate her, which is very worrying for me, as there is now a very real chance Nahiri won't make it past the end of the block. This is very sad for me, as it would mean my third white-aligned action girl would be dead. Seriously, how many empowered women does Wizards have to kill off? But...that's a completely different bridge, which I'll only cross if it comes down to it. I think I am starting to understand you, Jenrik, how it feels to have all your favorite characters killed off. I guess it comes with being a fan of the more minor characters. I don't hate Jace or any of the other Magic poster boys and girls, but it would be nice if the ones we root for caught a break every once in a while.
"You say 'learn from history,' but that does not mean 'learn the same bull***** the people in history learned alongside phrenology and alchemy.'" - The Blinking Spirit
I appreciate the compliment, although I'm sorry that my summary had to come at the expense of a character we both seemed to really enjoy.
Yeah, today we join Jenrik at the table of misery. I also agree I think there was a way to have our cake and eat it too. I thought for months what would happen in the return to Innistrad was Avacyn's power fading. She could lose the invulnerability of her Helvault-release self and struggle to keep the balance on Innistrad, with Sorin returning to explain to her why she could never be 100% effective and her forced coming to grips with that reality. Essentially a story where the first set was Dark Ascension-esque, putting humanity on the brink of survival and thenow a second set where they begin to recover, only to know it would be a fleeting peace. I'd take a depowered Avacyn over a Purifier if it meant she lived. :'(
EDH - Yes, Each One is Named After a Song. I love tying music to my decks.
B Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief B - Fear of the Dark
WG Sigarda, Heron's Grace WG - Strength in Numbers
RG Xenagos, God of Revels RG - Fullmoon (It's werewolves)
RW Archangel Avacyn // Avacyn, the Purifier RW - The End is Nigh
60 Card Kitchen Table Decks
WUB Avacyn, Spirit Ferrier
RG Arlinn Kord's Howlpack
Why couldn't he press the reset button? He seemed like he could have. Or remake her? I understood the hellvault but not her.
"You can't destroy me"
Is indestructible
"Ohhh really now?"
*exiles*
Emrakul is trying to enter Innistrad, and Nahiri is there wreaking havoc. We didn't need Avacyn or the angels going mad, let alone dying. There's enough conflict material. Avacyn is also no match for Emrakul. Granted it can't be a threat without Avacyn gone, but it didn't need to be the end boss either. Nahiri easily can be, with Emrakul lingering at Innistrad's planar boundaries giving a sense of anxiety and tension.
There's just this nauseating need to overdo it. Even in my favorite story, Godsend and Theros, the gods turning on mortals in an apocalypse-type fashion was just absurd and unnecessary. Greek mythology has gods meddling, not outright purging humanity. The minotaur war, Xenagos and Elspeth, etc. were conflict enough. Flesh those out instead of hurling conflicts at the lore.
Avacyn was killed to keep Innistrad strictly Gothic Horror World - which, believe it or not, is the opposite of what killing her did. Innistrad is no longer Gothic Horror World. It's basically Grixis now. Humans are doomed, the horrors are not kept in check, and half the point of modeling Avacyn as a MTG Virgin Mary and centering a church around her akin to the dark ages Catholic church is what gives Gothic Horror its secrecy, its themes of committing terrible acts that conflict with church doctrine in private labs, under cover of the night, of the people needing a redeemer in the first place. The persecution of hidden sorcery bred ingenuity and hushed controversy. The contrast is what makes Gothic Horror dark. Sometimes the extreme nature of the Church, a White force in itself, in pursuing the evils it condemns is even part of the horror itself. It leads to a questioning of one's personal morality. Such as burning at the stake, etc. The contrast isn't there. The conflicting force isn't there. In the future, hell, humans won't even be there. The mad scientists can do their worst unopposed. It's basically a villain free-for-all. And don't bring up Sigarda, either. Even with Avacyn, the evils couldn't be entirely purged.
A major theme of horror is being subjected to the unknown. Well, there's no reason for secrecy and cleverness now.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
RGTron
UGInfect
URStorm
WUBRAd Nauseam
BRGrishoalbrand
URGScapeshift
WBGAbzan Company
WUBRGAmulet Titan
BRGLiving End
WGBogles
I guess the scroll's story wouldn't kill Avacyn, although it'll still have repercussions. It doesn't improve Jace's image though IMO, especially when he himself only just understood Avacyn's necessity minutes ago when he entered her mind.
I really wish we had a couple more SOI stories, however. For me, like I said, I didn't really find Avacyn as a compelling character, and I was a quite surprised at how absent she was from the storyline. I kind of expected another story about her purge, maybe a comparison with what she was before or something, just more because I felt like I didn't really know Avacyn.
Wizards cheated a bit on the emotional connection because Avacyn has a fan base because she's a hero with cards that are good in the trading card game, resulting in the average intended reader filling in the blanks for Creative just enough (see also: Elspeth Tirel). And to be honest, Wizards could have executed this worse. Coming into Shadows over Innistrad, it's one lesson I had hoped that Wizards of the Coast learned from Battle for Zendikar (there's a lot I hope they learned, but let's stick with this one at the moment). For example, the death of Ashaya would have had more of an impact if its name had been Omnath.
That being said, I did bring up this problem last week because I realized Avacyn went mad in story 2, and then we proceeded to not see anything about her until story 11. While dunno what Wizards could have done (if there were more fights with angels, there's a HIGH risk of the overabundance of Eldrazi brood fights in BFZ storyline), but just leaving her out of the story for 9 weeks may have taken the problem to the other end of the spectrum (I don't count her glorified cameo fighting Nahiri in a flashback).
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
The story feels a bit rushed to me, and personally I don't like the first person narrative here. If Doug insisted on first-person, it probably would've been nicer had we seen Sorin's POV too, a double first-person narratives (or at least, first person for Avacyn, third person for Sorin). Like, how he noticed Avacyn in the cathedral, how he noticed Avacyn not being in her right mind, how he felt when Avacyn rebelled against him... maybe that could be saved for another article, but I doubt that. And for all the potential for emotional outburst, the way Avacyn remembers Sorin as her creator and their eventual deathmatch was written a bit devoid of emotion, as in I can't really say that is even meant to sound sad at all... or maybe I just need some viols.
Oh well. Agreed though, that the images at the end are a nice touch.
EDIT: Oh god... I suddenly get Devil May Cry 4 vibes in this story White-haired dudes Sorin/Dante crashing in from the ceiling of a goddamn church, then kills the head of the church Avacyn/Sanctus, and the young hero Jace/ Nero got shocked, and somewhere else Nahiri is summoning the Eldritch Moon a.k.a The Savior using cryptoliths/hellgates.... ok, shoot me now please
Kinda funny how Jenrik keeps picking the wrong side of defined setting.
In BFZ,he was all rage about "where is my adventure world????", despite it being clear above all doubt that we are seeing a sequel to RoE,not ZEN-WWK.
Now,Wizards did the right thing - going back to Innistrad,not AVR. And it is wrong again.
I understand your sentiment,Jenrik (well,more than your irrational love for blue),but the death of Avacyn will probably serve greater purpose - I can see finally some character development for a couple of people,preferably Sorin.
What we lost was an unique concept of a character (given her creation and the magic balance),that I am not denying.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Of course they overdo it. Wizards is a company. Their primary goal is selling products. They do that by attracting players with big, flashy hooks. Over the top, world changing plots with huge stakes and huge battles. Epic on every scale, because bigger is always better. They will do anything to make the story seem exciting and intense. It's ironic, because in doing so, they suck out the thrill for those who take the time to follow the story more closely.
That's just it. Everyone talks about how Innistrad is a black-aligned world, but it's not. It's a black and white world.
Horror isn't the nameless things that go bump in the night, it's the things they hunt. It's the desperate humans, clinging to life and hope and light, as the darkness closes in around them. It's the heroism of fighting back, even if it's pointless. A7xjoker33 proposed an excellent idea. Avacyn
iswas powered by the humans' need for her protection. Humans were desperate during the Dark Ascension, so when she was released, she had access to god-like power. Eventually, as humans recovered, her strength would decrease, and a balance would be struck. But no, an ordinary day in a dark, twisted horror plane isn't enough for Wizards. It has to be the end of the world, or else it doesn't matter.It's not that she has such amazing and dynamic characterization, it's the fact she had the potential to become so much more. She is a run of the mill angel, but she had a very unconventional origin. She wasn't just some random embodiment of goodness that coalesced from the natural forces of white on the plane, like most other angels. No, she was created by Sorin, a twisted, arrogant, and cruel monster who survives by killing others. Sorin requires one human worth of blood a month. He's over 6000 years old. That's 72,000 people Sorin has killed. 72,000. Think about that, and tell me Sorin isn't a monster. Now imagine having to live with the fact that you were created by that monster. Think of what a compelling story that could be! What's more, Avacyn is powered by human need. Her power grows when more humans are dying. I don't know about you, but that would make me question my existence. Such potential, all wasted.
Then again, who am I kidding? Like I said, Wizards is just a company. They'll do whatever cheap thrills sell products. We're lucky to get even a cohesive narrative, and not just some general flavor for the setting. Us Vorthos, were just a handful of players chatting in a little corner of the Internet. We pull the story apart, immerse ourselves in the flavor, more than anyone else, but we're just a small sliver of the audience. Our specific happiness barely has any effect on the amount of product Wizards sells. Why should they twist their storytelling team in knots trying to please some whiny, demanding niche of fans? We're just not worth it.
...Wow. I really hit a despair event horizon there, didn't I?
"You say 'learn from history,' but that does not mean 'learn the same bull***** the people in history learned alongside phrenology and alchemy.'" - The Blinking Spirit
To be fair, even MaRo agreed not returning to Adventure World was an issue. Funny how Lorwyn was just oh so terrible for being a tribal focused set, yet Eldrazi World with a splash of Allies would be such a great idea?
Lorwyn is a beautiful idyllic paradise that should be visited after Kamigawa. And MaRo, Market Research, and Hasbro are just going to deal.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Dang, this write up turned me to ash coz of feels...
because that's the end point to it, unlike the Neowalkers/Jacetice League, getting this, Avacyn will not return.
Some may hate the first-person POV, but to me it somehow lent something to the story. (p.s. Should've not read this story while I was about to go to sleep and having health issue paranoia)
It's almost moot to continue to beach and moan about her death, because it will just fall into deaf ears anyway... as long as the Gameplay people are attended to.
I'm just wishing that Sigarda will kick arse in her place in Eldritch Moon (still crossing my fingers and toes that she be the next Angelic Leader in Innistrad)
else, I'm gonna see you folks in the next return to Ravnica (or whichever set/block is gonna have angels), where I know something bad will happen to Aurelia, because Magic, as we know it, likes torturing angels.
Serra Stan - Angel Enthusiast - Garruk and Tyvar thirsty follower - Flavor and Art Enthusiast