Hey, this is a poll to replace the last one that got messed up.
Just so it doesn't become repetitive, I'm doing two things different:
- The last poll was more about the ending of the story, and this one is about the whole story arc in general (BFZ + OGW). I will add five options as some have requested last time.
- You can, if you want, say what was the best aspect of the whole storyline in your opinion and the worst. "Aspect" being a very general designation, it could be a story, a character, a passage, a concept, whatever you think deserves a comment.
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I will start by saying the best and worst things in BFZ for me. Both are eldrazi related, since I really like their concept.
The best thing in BFZ to me was the concept of Tazri living billions of years under Kozilek's influence, seeing everything die in Zendikar and trying to regain the attention of her so-called "master". This concept becomes even more amazing when you understand that it actually happened, it wasn't an illusion, or hallucination of sorts. It was an alternated reality that Tazri lived, in just that brief moment (that took billions of years).
The worst thing for me definitely were the random eldrazi drone fights. In the beggining I could understand one or another showcasing of the presence of the eldrazi, but there was a point where everytime an eldrazi showed up I was shooking my head: "great, now I have to read another random encounter". These eldrazi fights were as annoying as bumping into zubats inside caves while playing pokemon. And that is saying something.
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I'll echo Ashiok. Ending a scene with the oncoming drones, then picking up the following with the aftermath of battle would have broken the tedium of filler fights.
So just reread the BFZ/OGW story cutting out every drone battle scene after the first one, and other than Ob being a kind of let down(we only see him get stomped by Nissa then uncharacteristically drag off the walkers to be tortured) the story was actually really good.
A lot less Gideon and Nissa and we don't lose any of the good parts except the whole Mina and Den event.
Though I have to say the part I'm most upset about is the fat packs, but not that they spoiled the ending so soon but that they get so much wrong.
Agreed on the drone fights, they could have at least used some of the unique Eldrazi to make the fights different. Perhaps one time they fight the Oracle of Dust, another they fight the Displacer. It would also allow them to showcade what the Eldrazi are capable of.
I will start by saying the best and worst things in BFZ for me. Both are eldrazi related, since I really like their concept.
The best thing in BFZ to me was the concept of Tazri living billions of years under Kozilek's influence, seeing everything die in Zendikar and trying to regain the attention of her so-called "master". This concept becomes even more amazing when you understand that it actually happened, it wasn't an illusion, or hallucination of sorts. It was an alternated reality that Tazri lived, in just that brief moment (that took billions of years).
The worst thing for me definitely were the random eldrazi drone fights. In the beggining I could understand one or another showcasing of the presence of the eldrazi, but there was a point where everytime an eldrazi showed up I was shooking my head: "great, now I have to read another random encounter". These eldrazi fights were as annoying as bumping into zubats inside caves while playing pokemon. And that is saying something.
Pretty much that. Tazri's story was objectively the best story from the whole buch. Drone-slaying and sural/sword/Ashaya-swinging was tedious.
I would add Ob Nixilis stuff (especially in "At Any Cost") to the pros, and "Let our powers combine" moment of Gatewatch beating Ob to the cons.
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Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Most positive aspect(s) - Drana and Tazri. Both their URs were well written. I liked Drana's portrayal as a genuinely B 'good guy', the internal wrestle between her nature as a one-time pawn of Ulamog and her defiance, and the background it gave to the Zendivamps. Tazri's encounter with Kozilek was superb. I also liked her history with the angel and her face-off against Drana once she took control again too. Those two legendary characters were the most redeeming aspect of the whole block to me. I know other people liked Ob, but I could take him or leave him to be honest; he had good moments, but a few poor ones too.
Most negative aspect - the over-arching decision to establish the Gatewatch by having them beat two of the biggest, baddest monsters of the Magic multiverse. It involved too many extreme suspensions of disbelief (Gideon v Ulamog etc.); too many 'oh, how lucky' moments (Kozilek mysteriously forgetting everything about his nature and power to facilitate the end being one of the worst); and the whole story felt like it had been written backwards - the characters weren't pushed by one set of events towards the logical next, but were instead pulled towards an inevitable end. And it leaves us wondering if there is *anything* we should feel they might be threatened by in the future.
Pros There were some very good individual stories, and we got a little character development that actually made me care about some of the main characters (I actually don't want Nissa to die any more, who woulda thunk?) The destruction of the titans (in method and simply in happening) was also more believable and less of a letdown than I thought it would be. That said...
Cons There was far too much filler in this story drone fights and Nissa wishywashing about her life. I also don't think the titans displayed the menace and power they should have considering they are some of the most powerful beings in the multiverse (this is especially true of Ulamog, who didn't even get to chock up a Lorthos kill). As I said, I am more ok with the titan's destruction than I thought I would be but getting rid of 2 of them at once seems like a waste of creative resources. Bottom line, I feel the titans should not have been the first antagonists the Gatewatch had to overcome.
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
After reading threads and the Salvation wiki, here are my thoughts.
I would have prefered if they either just found a way to drive them off Zendikar and had to keep chasing them across the Multiverse, needing to meet new planeswalkers and discover new ways to keep them at bay and/or defeat them OR only defeat one of the Titans, not having time to defeat the second, possibly only weakening it.
I like the idea of the multiverse having a big bad like the Eldrazi, it gives the planeswalkers a very viable reason to planeswalk rather than to stay on a home plane, old or new.
If the Gatewatch was spread out across the multiverse, it would make it more interesting in my opinion.
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It needs another option where you say the story was completely awful and poorly written.
The best part was the one where Ob Nixilis was talking to himself.
The worst part was the fact that the end had no real impact on Zendikar. Everything returned to normal in the end.
How is everything normal? The plane is ravaged, there are several dead continents. The population has also taken a huge dip. They are regrowing, but the land is scarred. Sea Gate is destroyed and the Halimar Basin is emptyed.
3. justice league- not bad, but confusing as the story- they should be the most powerful thing in the world and they do not kill the eldrazi???
They did. They killed Kozilek and Ulamog completely when Jace opened up the leyline and trapped their forms in reality so Chandra could burn them to death.
I would have prefered if they either just found a way to drive them off Zendikar
I'm fairly certain we haven't seen the last of Ulamog and Kozilek. The way I imagine it will happen is that Emrakul will be killed without binding it to reality, and through unknowable shenanigans, our graveyards will be shuffled into our libraries, and the titans will be reborn in the blind eternities.
I never liked the Eldrazi and really never want to see them again. I am happy that Emrakul is not in Shadows, although I am saddened that she is likely on Innistrad. Hopefully, they just keep her in the background.
The Eldrazi are some of the least compelling bad guys WotC has, both in terms of the story and in terms of the gameplay they bring.
Ob Nixilis was a really neat villain - he didn't overdo the "hammy overlord/villain who has slain heroes before" thing. As others have stated, I like Drana and Tazri's arcs. Wish we could've seen some of the other Legendaries.
I hope the consequences of killing Ulamog and Kozilek are in-story super-impactful. Also, please less Jace - or at least make him more than the poster-child, WOTC.
Also please don't drop the ball like you did with Kozilek in-story, WOTC. You had a wonderful POV with Tazri but then just...stopped.
RIP Lorthos. Please continue on "let's humble Kiora some more!" stuff. It's a decent character arc.
On second thought, I like that Ulamog and Kozilek were killed, because it means that only Emrakul stands in the way of never seeing Eldrazi again. That would be a big win in terms of both story and gameplay. Hopefully Eldritch Moon ends with "And then, just as Jace discovered Emrakul caused everything, she left the multiverse forever, for reasons that will never be know."
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Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
I am among those who like the idea, or at least the original idea on introducing the Eldrazi as villains. Oh, and before I continue, do excuse me if my post may seem shallow, but I am usually more invested in overall setting rather than individual stories or some chain of stories, and thus usually I'm not so keen on the details. Sure, some stories are nice to read, but overall I just prefer reading the general, overarching flow of the plot.
And this is where BfZ block disappoints me: The deaths of Ulamog and Kozilek. I remember loving how Ugin explains about Ulamog and Kozilek, and thus I keep entertaining myself to the idea that if Ugin, Sorin and Nahiri together can't (or perhaps won't) rid of the three of them permanently, having a bittersweet ending where they either are merely subdued (resealed etc) or flat-out escaped would've fit their image as eldritch beings better. But no, they had to turn this into a Sunday morning cartoon featuring young, nigh-inexperienced planeswalkers (inexperienced in dealing the eldritch, not inexperienced in playing heroes) killing them for good with just some preparations. Well, ok, there may be more details to that, but as I said, the general end result matter more to me, and thus these so-called ancient, powerful beings that Sorin had to turn tail from to find Ugin, being reduced to some mid-boss fights just feels wrong.
This, by the way, is related to another pet peeve of mine: WotC's treatment to the so-called ancient planeswalkers: Ugin has been reduced to a stubborn old gramps, Nahiri reduced into an over-aged child with severe temper tantrum issues (I can imagine some possible justifications, but the "Promises Old And New" story in SOI just looks... bad), Sorin being reduced to a mere fanservice banner who barely does anything to the plots (between his lack of action in Avacyn's AWOL, Ugin's death/rebirth, etc etc), and perhaps we haven't seen much of Bolas because the WotC people are his fans and decide not to put him in potentially disparaging storylines. *sigh* End of rant for today.
Just so it doesn't become repetitive, I'm doing two things different:
- The last poll was more about the ending of the story, and this one is about the whole story arc in general (BFZ + OGW). I will add five options as some have requested last time.
- You can, if you want, say what was the best aspect of the whole storyline in your opinion and the worst. "Aspect" being a very general designation, it could be a story, a character, a passage, a concept, whatever you think deserves a comment.
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).
The best thing in BFZ to me was the concept of Tazri living billions of years under Kozilek's influence, seeing everything die in Zendikar and trying to regain the attention of her so-called "master". This concept becomes even more amazing when you understand that it actually happened, it wasn't an illusion, or hallucination of sorts. It was an alternated reality that Tazri lived, in just that brief moment (that took billions of years).
The worst thing for me definitely were the random eldrazi drone fights. In the beggining I could understand one or another showcasing of the presence of the eldrazi, but there was a point where everytime an eldrazi showed up I was shooking my head: "great, now I have to read another random encounter". These eldrazi fights were as annoying as bumping into zubats inside caves while playing pokemon. And that is saying something.
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).
A lot less Gideon and Nissa and we don't lose any of the good parts except the whole Mina and Den event.
Though I have to say the part I'm most upset about is the fat packs, but not that they spoiled the ending so soon but that they get so much wrong.
Pretty much that. Tazri's story was objectively the best story from the whole buch. Drone-slaying and sural/sword/Ashaya-swinging was tedious.
I would add Ob Nixilis stuff (especially in "At Any Cost") to the pros, and "Let our powers combine" moment of Gatewatch beating Ob to the cons.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Most negative aspect - the over-arching decision to establish the Gatewatch by having them beat two of the biggest, baddest monsters of the Magic multiverse. It involved too many extreme suspensions of disbelief (Gideon v Ulamog etc.); too many 'oh, how lucky' moments (Kozilek mysteriously forgetting everything about his nature and power to facilitate the end being one of the worst); and the whole story felt like it had been written backwards - the characters weren't pushed by one set of events towards the logical next, but were instead pulled towards an inevitable end. And it leaves us wondering if there is *anything* we should feel they might be threatened by in the future.
Cons There was far too much filler in this story drone fights and Nissa wishywashing about her life. I also don't think the titans displayed the menace and power they should have considering they are some of the most powerful beings in the multiverse (this is especially true of Ulamog, who didn't even get to chock up a Lorthos kill). As I said, I am more ok with the titan's destruction than I thought I would be but getting rid of 2 of them at once seems like a waste of creative resources. Bottom line, I feel the titans should not have been the first antagonists the Gatewatch had to overcome.
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
I would have prefered if they either just found a way to drive them off Zendikar and had to keep chasing them across the Multiverse, needing to meet new planeswalkers and discover new ways to keep them at bay and/or defeat them OR only defeat one of the Titans, not having time to defeat the second, possibly only weakening it.
I like the idea of the multiverse having a big bad like the Eldrazi, it gives the planeswalkers a very viable reason to planeswalk rather than to stay on a home plane, old or new.
If the Gatewatch was spread out across the multiverse, it would make it more interesting in my opinion.
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You win target thread. If you aren't Atrius, Atrius wins that thread instead.
"Wait, can you actually win a thread?" - Atrius.
The best part was the one where Ob Nixilis was talking to himself.
The worst part was the fact that the end had no real impact on Zendikar. Everything returned to normal in the end.
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How is everything normal? The plane is ravaged, there are several dead continents. The population has also taken a huge dip. They are regrowing, but the land is scarred. Sea Gate is destroyed and the Halimar Basin is emptyed.
They did. They killed Kozilek and Ulamog completely when Jace opened up the leyline and trapped their forms in reality so Chandra could burn them to death.
I'm fairly certain we haven't seen the last of Ulamog and Kozilek. The way I imagine it will happen is that Emrakul will be killed without binding it to reality, and through unknowable shenanigans, our graveyards will be shuffled into our libraries, and the titans will be reborn in the blind eternities.
The Eldrazi are some of the least compelling bad guys WotC has, both in terms of the story and in terms of the gameplay they bring.
I hope the consequences of killing Ulamog and Kozilek are in-story super-impactful. Also, please less Jace - or at least make him more than the poster-child, WOTC.
Also please don't drop the ball like you did with Kozilek in-story, WOTC. You had a wonderful POV with Tazri but then just...stopped.
RIP Lorthos. Please continue on "let's humble Kiora some more!" stuff. It's a decent character arc.
EDH: GWCaptain Sisay
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Reach out and torch someone . . .
Scroll down to the bottom, I link to the Battle for Zendikar and Oath of the Gatewatch story sites.
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And this is where BfZ block disappoints me: The deaths of Ulamog and Kozilek. I remember loving how Ugin explains about Ulamog and Kozilek, and thus I keep entertaining myself to the idea that if Ugin, Sorin and Nahiri together can't (or perhaps won't) rid of the three of them permanently, having a bittersweet ending where they either are merely subdued (resealed etc) or flat-out escaped would've fit their image as eldritch beings better. But no, they had to turn this into a Sunday morning cartoon featuring young, nigh-inexperienced planeswalkers (inexperienced in dealing the eldritch, not inexperienced in playing heroes) killing them for good with just some preparations. Well, ok, there may be more details to that, but as I said, the general end result matter more to me, and thus these so-called ancient, powerful beings that Sorin had to turn tail from to find Ugin, being reduced to some mid-boss fights just feels wrong.
This, by the way, is related to another pet peeve of mine: WotC's treatment to the so-called ancient planeswalkers: Ugin has been reduced to a stubborn old gramps, Nahiri reduced into an over-aged child with severe temper tantrum issues (I can imagine some possible justifications, but the "Promises Old And New" story in SOI just looks... bad), Sorin being reduced to a mere fanservice banner who barely does anything to the plots (between his lack of action in Avacyn's AWOL, Ugin's death/rebirth, etc etc), and perhaps we haven't seen much of Bolas because the WotC people are his fans and decide not to put him in potentially disparaging storylines. *sigh* End of rant for today.