My interest got piqued by Tolarian Community College's recent Office Hours feature on Liliana.
I'm fairly new to Magic, having started during Theros block. I'm a total Vorthos/Johnny, so trying to understand not only the lore, but also the philosophy behind aspects of the game, is something that appeals to me.
In the TCC video, the Professor chastises Liliana for being too one-dimensional, ie. power-hungry/dismissive/merciless. The Professor, along with others in the comments, has complained that some of the current colour philosophy in Magic is too flat and cliche. Red is impatient/angry (see the Chandra Office Hours video). Blue is "smart"/cool etc.
My question is: Has this been the predominant trend throughout the game's history? I've never read the old Magic novels, but I've watched some primers on the Urza saga courtesy of The Mana Source (great channel!). It does appear that Urza had a much more complex personalization, and was, to put it bluntly... more human. There are conflicting emotions, contradictory sides of his personality, and deep internal and interpersonal struggles that he dealt with that I think most of us can relate to.
Why does it seem that colours like black are portrayed as just "bad?" Even Drana in the current Zendikar block, while not "evil", is fairly one-note (ie. "I'll save you, but only so I can eat you later."). I did enjoy the characterization of Tazri in the recent Uncharted Realms article, though. She was more fleshed-out and personified several, seemingly secondary aspects of white (conservatism, unswerving loyalty).
Am I perhaps overstating my perception of the shallowness of the game's colour philosophy? Is this just a problem that applies to the new planeswalkers? For example, this predates me, but the New Phyrexia block demonstrated each colour taken to its twisted extreme in the form of the Phyrexians.
Am I perhaps overstating my perception of the shallowness of the game's colour philosophy?
Color philosophy is a very deep subject (MaRo has like fifteen offical podcasts on it) but its held back in terms of execution by a couple of factors. First of all game mechanics restrict what we can see on cards and the cards represent combat. That pushes every color toward its negative aspects, especially Black and Red. Second characterization isn't high on WotC's priority list since they're in the business of selling cards not novels. Third they're on a tight schedule, GRRM can push releases back as much as he wants in order to get things just right but Creative doesn't have that option. They have to conceive of a world, flesh it out to fit Magic, design a plot, and then write it in less than a year (and they're locked into the plot as soon as art starts coming in). Often they're doing it from scratch so they have very little to build on. In that scenario making characters more complex and more human fails a cost benefit analysis.
Could the story be better? Yes, absolutely, even with those limitations they could do a lot better. However it would mean bringing on several writers and editors which probably isn't going to happen.
Is this just a problem that applies to the new planeswalkers?
No but it is exemplified in both the Lorwyn Five and the Origins Five. Those characters are designed to be the "face" of the game and so are designed and written to be easy to grasp. Side characters are generally better developed.
It's a matter of execution, yes. In recent years most of the good writers have been either fired or forced to inactivity, and subtility is being progressively dismissed in favour of quick, obvious marketing.
I do have to say that Creative has gone on to portray Red as more nuanced, though. Even early novels focused on its violent and harsh side, but now we have an emphasis on Red's other emotions.
The biggest issue is that youre looking at the characters who were created to embody their colors most prominent aspect.
Gideon: absolute self sacrifice for the sake of others.
Ajani: focuses on drawing out the inner strength of others.
Jace: Telepath, curious and always a thought before action person.
Lili: opposite of Gidi. Nothing matters but Lili. They're trying to draw out some of Lili's good traits because they want the Origins 5 to be the focal heros.
Chandra: the opposite of Jace. Impulsive and quick to act without thinking about the consequences.
Garruk: Beastmaster and force of natural selection.
Nissa: deep, personal relationship with nature itself.
Is their more to the colors? Oh but of course. White can be stifling and xenophobic. Blue can be the team player drawing out everyone's strength and connecting them in hitherto unheard of ways. Black is hard working, resolute and assertive. Red can be gentle, loving and nurturing. Green just wants people to leave it alone. The colors are deep but when you write characters who literally are only one color they will often be one dimensional because we all know real people are all five colors. (But screw white, I hate white.)
Color philosophy is a very deep subject (MaRo has like fifteen offical podcasts on it) but its held back in terms of execution by a couple of factors. First of all game mechanics restrict what we can see on cards and the cards represent combat. That pushes every color toward its negative aspects, especially Black and Red.
Should that necessarily be the case though? If the game itself represents combat between planeswalkers, then there are clearly mechanics that lean towards the more benign (blue card draw, green ramp, red looting, white life gain, black... never mind everything in black comes at a price). To me, those mechanics represent aspects of the respective colours that don't necessarily have anything to do with combat. Struggle, sure, but combat, not necessarily. Furthermore, I believe the Ravnica guilds actually draw out some of those characteristics more thoroughly.
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Second characterization isn't high on WotC's priority list since they're in the business of selling cards not novels.
This I agree with wholeheartedly. I think that the overriding factor here is that WoTC is owned by Hasbro, and as a corporation they're all about doing the bare minimum to ensure we eat up the product.
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Third they're on a tight schedule, GRRM can push releases back as much as he wants in order to get things just right but Creative doesn't have that option. They have to conceive of a world, flesh it out to fit Magic, design a plot, and then write it in less than a year (and they're locked into the plot as soon as art starts coming in). Often they're doing it from scratch so they have very little to build on. In that scenario making characters more complex and more human fails a cost benefit analysis.
I think that also ties into the fact that they're a multi-million dollar business. Regarding GRRM, I know there was always pressure from HBO to hurry his ass up. It's just that the guy is literally the fount of HBO's newfound profit, and he's allowed a lot more leniency. And even then, there are limits, because the next season of GoT is going forward without the release of the next novel anyway.
Thanks for the insight into their process. I had no idea what their time constraints were. It does suck, because the universe WoTC has created with MTG is much more imaginative and enjoyable than even many of the AAA video game titles being shat out on a daily basis. There's a lot of potential for this game to become more of a haven for Vorthos types than it already is.
Could you by chance link me to the MaRo podcasts you mentioned earlier?
To be fair that description of black sounds like it could apply any of the colors(especially white, actually). A blue scientist dedicated to their research, a red artist, a green environmentalist, they could all very reasonably have those exact traits without being black. Black's influence usually stems from a question "What are you willing to do to reach your goals?" to which the answer, from black, is usually, "Anything.". This is regardless of anyone else's sense of morality or interests, more often than not. Granted, this doesn't have to be directed outwardly and doesn't have to have a negative effect towards others. Quite to the contrary, the only flavor of black that I truly like is that which is dedicated to its goal but whose ruthlessness and machinations only extend to themselves.
Also, I don't really buy into the idea that ever human being is all 5 colors because of how color identity is determined but that's another story.
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"Pop in, find a dragon, roast a dragon."
-Chandra Nalaar
No human being is because colours essentially boil down to motivations/perspectives. Very few people want both peace and freedom, after all (is that not why american politics are screwed up?)
Just to say I want both peace and freedom (though I'm not American). Actually - does anyone *not* want peace?
I also want fairness and justice for all, but I quite like the cheap luxuries global inequalities bring me. I want the environment to be well looked after and respected, but I do like a trip to a race-track too. I bring up my children to work hard and not be lazy, but damn - I'd love to win the lottery so I didn't have to work any more. I need everything in my world-view to line up and work logically, but I'd also rather just go with my gut than take the time to work some stuff out.
Humans are full of hypocrisy and contradictions, and I think the conflicts between the five colours play out in us all. Sure - each of us may feel we are more defined by one or two colours than the others, but we are creatures of the full gamut. Or maybe it's just me.
Just to say I want both peace and freedom (though I'm not American). Actually - does anyone *not* want peace?
People who would rather have chaos, anarcho-capitalism and/or holy wars.
Humans are full of hypocrisy and contradictions, and I think the conflicts between the five colours play out in us all. Sure - each of us may feel we are more defined by one or two colours than the others, but we are creatures of the full gamut. Or maybe it's just me.
Like I said, perspective and motivations play a key role. Everyone feels emotions, but only some people wish to give themselves to them and be passionate (red), everyone is forced to obey instincts but only a select number actually accept them (green), everyone wants agency but only a few wish agency above all else (black).
Just as a personal example, I value intelligent thought, perfection and knowledge, but ultimately they are all irrelevant to my goals of personal freedom and peace. That is why I am ostensibly Red/White and not Blue.
Just to say I want both peace and freedom (though I'm not American). Actually - does anyone *not* want peace?
People who would rather have chaos, anarcho-capitalism and/or holy wars.
Humans are full of hypocrisy and contradictions, and I think the conflicts between the five colours play out in us all. Sure - each of us may feel we are more defined by one or two colours than the others, but we are creatures of the full gamut. Or maybe it's just me.
Like I said, perspective and motivations play a key role. Everyone feels emotions, but only some people wish to give themselves to them and be passionate (red), everyone is forced to obey instincts but only a select number actually accept them (green), everyone wants agency but only a few wish agency above all else (black).
Just as a personal example, I value intelligent thought, perfection and knowledge, but ultimately they are all irrelevant to my goals of personal freedom and peace. That is why I am ostensibly Red/White and not Blue.
Exactly this. Color identity is somewhat determined by predispositions at times, but it's grnadest defining factor is the choices that an individual makes. For instance, just like we may all have a pull to, say, selfish interests and or our emotions, it is whether or not we choose to act on those things that define us. You'd better believe that Gideon gets the pull to do some selfish things at times, but he doesn't act on them and instead chooses to come to the aid of others. That's why he is white and not black. That doesn't mean that he never has black thoughts or impulses, but that he chooses the white path rather than the black one. The same goes for the other colors.
This extends to personal philosophy as well but that's obvious and is, by and large, the basis on which the choices I mentioned above are made. Obviously, it is Gideon's conscience and personal philosophy that leads him to take white actions and ignore black selfishness.
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"Pop in, find a dragon, roast a dragon."
-Chandra Nalaar
The color philosophies are actually very deep, and the only reason you haven't seen that is because you are new, and the quality of writing and character development you have seen recently has fallen to the level of a bad comic book. Early magic lore, and even early 2000s lore, was much deeper. This is the lore that gave us well done white antagonists like Radiant, whose religious fanaticism led to the slaughter of innocents and blinded her to the real danger facing her realm, and Konda, whose rigid sense of honor and duty to his people led him to start an impossible war that ravaged the plane. We also saw black heroes who put their ambition and ruthlessness to work for the common good, red heroes driven by passion or love of freedom, the intra-color conflicts of Fallen Empires, etc.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Now, I don't necessarily agree with that; other than White villains and the very rare Black hero, early Magic was even worse at adhering to colour stereotypes. Plus, loads of bad writing.
If I had to declare a "golden age", it'd be between Kamigawa and LorMoor.
Like I said, perspective and motivations play a key role. Everyone feels emotions, but only some people wish to give themselves to them and be passionate (red), everyone is forced to obey instincts but only a select number actually accept them (green), everyone wants agency but only a few wish agency above all else (black).
This is how I like to see it as well, but when the guy who is in charge of the colour pie tells us that Sarkhan Unbroken is part blue, because he accidentally stepped into a time portal and thus unwittingly used a blue element to change the world of Tarkir, the whole thing falls apart and I realize it's just pretty headcanon.
Like I said, perspective and motivations play a key role. Everyone feels emotions, but only some people wish to give themselves to them and be passionate (red), everyone is forced to obey instincts but only a select number actually accept them (green), everyone wants agency but only a few wish agency above all else (black).
This is how I like to see it as well, but when the guy who is in charge of the colour pie tells us that Sarkhan Unbroken is part blue, because he accidentally stepped into a time portal and thus unwittingly used a blue element to change the world of Tarkir, the whole thing falls apart and I realize it's just pretty headcanon.
Yeah, that guy sucks. Sarkhan was meant to be BLACK, not Blue, but durr hurr Maro's hypocrisy.
It's mostly fairly shallow, all in all. Liliana is basically honey badger.
That being said, it doesn't have to be: interesting, nuanced characters appear now and then.
The "stop making black evil all the time" request is actually quite common among the wider fanbase though: I expect a black-aligned hero/heroine within the next few sets, actually. I just hope they don't try to retcon Liliana into that, as her character is fairly established just now, and that's fine.
Like I said, perspective and motivations play a key role. Everyone feels emotions, but only some people wish to give themselves to them and be passionate (red), everyone is forced to obey instincts but only a select number actually accept them (green), everyone wants agency but only a few wish agency above all else (black).
This is how I like to see it as well, but when the guy who is in charge of the colour pie tells us that Sarkhan Unbroken is part blue, because he accidentally stepped into a time portal and thus unwittingly used a blue element to change the world of Tarkir, the whole thing falls apart and I realize it's just pretty headcanon.
Isn't that just a consequence of the color pie being much broader than personality, though? Using Blue magic makes you more blue even if it doesn't change your personality. That real world doesn't have this problem because physics and metaphysics are different things for us.
Like I said, perspective and motivations play a key role. Everyone feels emotions, but only some people wish to give themselves to them and be passionate (red), everyone is forced to obey instincts but only a select number actually accept them (green), everyone wants agency but only a few wish agency above all else (black).
This is how I like to see it as well, but when the guy who is in charge of the colour pie tells us that Sarkhan Unbroken is part blue, because he accidentally stepped into a time portal and thus unwittingly used a blue element to change the world of Tarkir, the whole thing falls apart and I realize it's just pretty headcanon.
Isn't that just a consequence of the color pie being much broader than personality, though? Using Blue magic makes you more blue even if it doesn't change your personality. That real world doesn't have this problem because physics and metaphysics are different things for us.
Well this largely depends on what you want out of the colour pie. Personally I like to think the colour pie is not related to one's personality, but their motivations. A blue character doesn't have to be smart, as long as they want to learn and/or be in control of things. I can see a stoic character being red, what about a person who lost their emotions and wants to have them back to feel alive. To me that'd be a red character because I like to think the motivation is the deciding factor, not how you actually act in the end.
But again, this is just my personal take on it and the "curator" of the colour pie has a different vision, so eh.
I think the magic color pie is broad, which isn't the same thing as shallow.
The problem is that 'evil' usually overlaps with black more often than in other colors, and in how it shows up in cards. Black is associated with selfishness and with death, which is why it seems the most 'evil' color.
But villains and heroes can be any color. Kamigawa's villain was white and the protagonist was black.
Well this largely depends on what you want out of the colour pie. Personally I like to think the colour pie is not related to one's personality, but their motivations.
I like this PoV as well but I think its better suited to traditional fiction than to Magic. Like if you had a TV series or books you could do this. Magic (or at least WotC) wants to have the colors instantly accessible to the average person and that means tying them to obvious outward traits (ie Blue aligned species are frequently Blue) rather than subtle motivations.
People have, unofficially, used the color pie outside of Magic and it works well there but I'm not sure how Wizards can be more subtle without having people complain that certain characters "don't make sense".
The color pie is not shallow, but human beings certainly are.
It's pretty rare that your average person sits down and starts to critique themselves, ask themselves why they act the way they do, whether that's what they want, etc, etc. Most people are pragmatic - they prefer to shelve the psychology and philosophy and just get on with their work.
Like I said, perspective and motivations play a key role. Everyone feels emotions, but only some people wish to give themselves to them and be passionate (red), everyone is forced to obey instincts but only a select number actually accept them (green), everyone wants agency but only a few wish agency above all else (black).
This is how I like to see it as well, but when the guy who is in charge of the colour pie tells us that Sarkhan Unbroken is part blue, because he accidentally stepped into a time portal and thus unwittingly used a blue element to change the world of Tarkir, the whole thing falls apart and I realize it's just pretty headcanon.
Yeah, that guy sucks. Sarkhan was meant to be BLACK, not Blue, but durr hurr Maro's hypocrisy.
It was a mostly development and creative choice to make Sarkhan Temur instead of Jund, so I'm guess Maro is talking out his behind so that it doesn't look like he is blasting the other two parts of RnD.
Honesty it would have been better if Sarkhan had cost 2(B/G)(B/G)R, he could have fit into either Mardu or Temur dragon decks.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Like I said, perspective and motivations play a key role. Everyone feels emotions, but only some people wish to give themselves to them and be passionate (red), everyone is forced to obey instincts but only a select number actually accept them (green), everyone wants agency but only a few wish agency above all else (black).
This is how I like to see it as well, but when the guy who is in charge of the colour pie tells us that Sarkhan Unbroken is part blue, because he accidentally stepped into a time portal and thus unwittingly used a blue element to change the world of Tarkir, the whole thing falls apart and I realize it's just pretty headcanon.
Yeah, that guy sucks. Sarkhan was meant to be BLACK, not Blue, but durr hurr Maro's hypocrisy.
It was a mostly development and creative choice to make Sarkhan Temur instead of Jund, so I'm guess Maro is talking out his behind so that it doesn't look like he is blasting the other two parts of RnD.
But hasn't Sarkhan's whole worldview changed since the clearing of his madness? I took what Ugin did to him as causing some sort of enlightenment.
The color pie is not shallow, but human beings certainly are.
What? Do you... know people?
I'm of the opinion that people generally think deeply about a great many things, including themselves. This isn't always reflected in their outward behaviour, but that's never been a foolproof indicator of anything anyways.
Also, thank you for all the responses in this thread. After reading some thoughtful replies here, I now realize that some of my initial conceptions were shortsighted. I hope that the conversation will continue.
I believe Sarkhan's blueness is because time travel, and also because he was trying to perfect his world. I imagine he may shift back to Jund when he returns though.
I'm fairly new to Magic, having started during Theros block. I'm a total Vorthos/Johnny, so trying to understand not only the lore, but also the philosophy behind aspects of the game, is something that appeals to me.
In the TCC video, the Professor chastises Liliana for being too one-dimensional, ie. power-hungry/dismissive/merciless. The Professor, along with others in the comments, has complained that some of the current colour philosophy in Magic is too flat and cliche. Red is impatient/angry (see the Chandra Office Hours video). Blue is "smart"/cool etc.
My question is: Has this been the predominant trend throughout the game's history? I've never read the old Magic novels, but I've watched some primers on the Urza saga courtesy of The Mana Source (great channel!). It does appear that Urza had a much more complex personalization, and was, to put it bluntly... more human. There are conflicting emotions, contradictory sides of his personality, and deep internal and interpersonal struggles that he dealt with that I think most of us can relate to.
Why does it seem that colours like black are portrayed as just "bad?" Even Drana in the current Zendikar block, while not "evil", is fairly one-note (ie. "I'll save you, but only so I can eat you later."). I did enjoy the characterization of Tazri in the recent Uncharted Realms article, though. She was more fleshed-out and personified several, seemingly secondary aspects of white (conservatism, unswerving loyalty).
Am I perhaps overstating my perception of the shallowness of the game's colour philosophy? Is this just a problem that applies to the new planeswalkers? For example, this predates me, but the New Phyrexia block demonstrated each colour taken to its twisted extreme in the form of the Phyrexians.
Thoughts?
Because Black really is portrayed that way.
Color philosophy is a very deep subject (MaRo has like fifteen offical podcasts on it) but its held back in terms of execution by a couple of factors. First of all game mechanics restrict what we can see on cards and the cards represent combat. That pushes every color toward its negative aspects, especially Black and Red. Second characterization isn't high on WotC's priority list since they're in the business of selling cards not novels. Third they're on a tight schedule, GRRM can push releases back as much as he wants in order to get things just right but Creative doesn't have that option. They have to conceive of a world, flesh it out to fit Magic, design a plot, and then write it in less than a year (and they're locked into the plot as soon as art starts coming in). Often they're doing it from scratch so they have very little to build on. In that scenario making characters more complex and more human fails a cost benefit analysis.
Could the story be better? Yes, absolutely, even with those limitations they could do a lot better. However it would mean bringing on several writers and editors which probably isn't going to happen.
No but it is exemplified in both the Lorwyn Five and the Origins Five. Those characters are designed to be the "face" of the game and so are designed and written to be easy to grasp. Side characters are generally better developed.
I do have to say that Creative has gone on to portray Red as more nuanced, though. Even early novels focused on its violent and harsh side, but now we have an emphasis on Red's other emotions.
Gideon: absolute self sacrifice for the sake of others.
Ajani: focuses on drawing out the inner strength of others.
Jace: Telepath, curious and always a thought before action person.
Lili: opposite of Gidi. Nothing matters but Lili. They're trying to draw out some of Lili's good traits because they want the Origins 5 to be the focal heros.
Chandra: the opposite of Jace. Impulsive and quick to act without thinking about the consequences.
Garruk: Beastmaster and force of natural selection.
Nissa: deep, personal relationship with nature itself.
Is their more to the colors? Oh but of course. White can be stifling and xenophobic. Blue can be the team player drawing out everyone's strength and connecting them in hitherto unheard of ways. Black is hard working, resolute and assertive. Red can be gentle, loving and nurturing. Green just wants people to leave it alone. The colors are deep but when you write characters who literally are only one color they will often be one dimensional because we all know real people are all five colors. (But screw white, I hate white.)
Should that necessarily be the case though? If the game itself represents combat between planeswalkers, then there are clearly mechanics that lean towards the more benign (blue card draw, green ramp, red looting, white life gain, black... never mind everything in black comes at a price). To me, those mechanics represent aspects of the respective colours that don't necessarily have anything to do with combat. Struggle, sure, but combat, not necessarily. Furthermore, I believe the Ravnica guilds actually draw out some of those characteristics more thoroughly.
This I agree with wholeheartedly. I think that the overriding factor here is that WoTC is owned by Hasbro, and as a corporation they're all about doing the bare minimum to ensure we eat up the product.
I think that also ties into the fact that they're a multi-million dollar business. Regarding GRRM, I know there was always pressure from HBO to hurry his ass up. It's just that the guy is literally the fount of HBO's newfound profit, and he's allowed a lot more leniency. And even then, there are limits, because the next season of GoT is going forward without the release of the next novel anyway.
Thanks for the insight into their process. I had no idea what their time constraints were. It does suck, because the universe WoTC has created with MTG is much more imaginative and enjoyable than even many of the AAA video game titles being shat out on a daily basis. There's a lot of potential for this game to become more of a haven for Vorthos types than it already is.
Could you by chance link me to the MaRo podcasts you mentioned earlier?
Also, I don't really buy into the idea that ever human being is all 5 colors because of how color identity is determined but that's another story.
-Chandra Nalaar
I also want fairness and justice for all, but I quite like the cheap luxuries global inequalities bring me. I want the environment to be well looked after and respected, but I do like a trip to a race-track too. I bring up my children to work hard and not be lazy, but damn - I'd love to win the lottery so I didn't have to work any more. I need everything in my world-view to line up and work logically, but I'd also rather just go with my gut than take the time to work some stuff out.
Humans are full of hypocrisy and contradictions, and I think the conflicts between the five colours play out in us all. Sure - each of us may feel we are more defined by one or two colours than the others, but we are creatures of the full gamut. Or maybe it's just me.
People who would rather have chaos, anarcho-capitalism and/or holy wars.
Like I said, perspective and motivations play a key role. Everyone feels emotions, but only some people wish to give themselves to them and be passionate (red), everyone is forced to obey instincts but only a select number actually accept them (green), everyone wants agency but only a few wish agency above all else (black).
Just as a personal example, I value intelligent thought, perfection and knowledge, but ultimately they are all irrelevant to my goals of personal freedom and peace. That is why I am ostensibly Red/White and not Blue.
This extends to personal philosophy as well but that's obvious and is, by and large, the basis on which the choices I mentioned above are made. Obviously, it is Gideon's conscience and personal philosophy that leads him to take white actions and ignore black selfishness.
-Chandra Nalaar
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
If I had to declare a "golden age", it'd be between Kamigawa and LorMoor.
This is how I like to see it as well, but when the guy who is in charge of the colour pie tells us that Sarkhan Unbroken is part blue, because he accidentally stepped into a time portal and thus unwittingly used a blue element to change the world of Tarkir, the whole thing falls apart and I realize it's just pretty headcanon.
Yeah, that guy sucks. Sarkhan was meant to be BLACK, not Blue, but durr hurr Maro's hypocrisy.
It's mostly fairly shallow, all in all. Liliana is basically honey badger.
That being said, it doesn't have to be: interesting, nuanced characters appear now and then.
The "stop making black evil all the time" request is actually quite common among the wider fanbase though: I expect a black-aligned hero/heroine within the next few sets, actually. I just hope they don't try to retcon Liliana into that, as her character is fairly established just now, and that's fine.
UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU's prison: blue is the new orange is the new black.
Mizzix Of The Izmagnus : wheels on fire... rolling down the road...
BSidisi, Undead VizierB: Bis zum Erbrechen
GTitiania, Protector Of ArgothG: Protecting Argoth, by blowing it up!
GYisan, The Wanderer BardG: Gradus Ad Elfball.
Duel EDH: Yisan & Titania.
In Progress: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV duel; Grenzo, Dungeon Warden Doomsday.
Isn't that just a consequence of the color pie being much broader than personality, though? Using Blue magic makes you more blue even if it doesn't change your personality. That real world doesn't have this problem because physics and metaphysics are different things for us.
I don't like AnnCaps or people who start holy wars either but neither has the motive of preventing peace.
Well this largely depends on what you want out of the colour pie. Personally I like to think the colour pie is not related to one's personality, but their motivations. A blue character doesn't have to be smart, as long as they want to learn and/or be in control of things. I can see a stoic character being red, what about a person who lost their emotions and wants to have them back to feel alive. To me that'd be a red character because I like to think the motivation is the deciding factor, not how you actually act in the end.
But again, this is just my personal take on it and the "curator" of the colour pie has a different vision, so eh.
The problem is that 'evil' usually overlaps with black more often than in other colors, and in how it shows up in cards. Black is associated with selfishness and with death, which is why it seems the most 'evil' color.
But villains and heroes can be any color. Kamigawa's villain was white and the protagonist was black.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
I like this PoV as well but I think its better suited to traditional fiction than to Magic. Like if you had a TV series or books you could do this. Magic (or at least WotC) wants to have the colors instantly accessible to the average person and that means tying them to obvious outward traits (ie Blue aligned species are frequently Blue) rather than subtle motivations.
People have, unofficially, used the color pie outside of Magic and it works well there but I'm not sure how Wizards can be more subtle without having people complain that certain characters "don't make sense".
It's pretty rare that your average person sits down and starts to critique themselves, ask themselves why they act the way they do, whether that's what they want, etc, etc. Most people are pragmatic - they prefer to shelve the psychology and philosophy and just get on with their work.
It was a mostly development and creative choice to make Sarkhan Temur instead of Jund, so I'm guess Maro is talking out his behind so that it doesn't look like he is blasting the other two parts of RnD.
Honesty it would have been better if Sarkhan had cost 2(B/G)(B/G)R, he could have fit into either Mardu or Temur dragon decks.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
But hasn't Sarkhan's whole worldview changed since the clearing of his madness? I took what Ugin did to him as causing some sort of enlightenment.
What? Do you... know people?
I'm of the opinion that people generally think deeply about a great many things, including themselves. This isn't always reflected in their outward behaviour, but that's never been a foolproof indicator of anything anyways.
Also, thank you for all the responses in this thread. After reading some thoughtful replies here, I now realize that some of my initial conceptions were shortsighted. I hope that the conversation will continue.