I'm with DVincent here. I'm much more annoyed by characters who have a card but no story. Let's be real, not every story character would make an interesting card. I will note that this has a few exceptions, like with Tawnos and Ashnod who have cards named after them.
The cards I fell will disappoint, but we've had a fair number of returning characters in the last two commander sets.
I suppose time will tell. As we all know by now, nothing infuriates me more as a Vorthos as cardless characters. Can't be looking to the future when we're roped by missing parts of the past...
Wait, I don't get that last line.
I would say I'm more frustrated by characters that are on cards that DON'T get any story. Thankfully they're doing much with that now. But there have been some awesome legends in the past who have gotten no story and it's just sad.
With the last line I mean like it's difficult for me to get as excited about new sets when I'm still hung up about wanting certain things from past sets. Like why be excited about Tarkir when the most exciting thing for me is getting a card for Arixmethes and Callaphe from Theros? Something I want in SOI is a card for Jenrik, which may not happen. I'd rather be excited for sets because of the sets and new planes, not because I'm anticipating something that didn't or may not finally happen. I'd rather enjoy the normal pace of Magic sets and new planes than being impatient about return sets to accomplish what I wished had happened the first time around.
Granted not all legends or named characters are deserving of cards. But some have been very alluring and been strangely absent. Taigam, the most popular cardless character of all, per MaRo's Blogatog poll (a character I don't care for in the slightest, but still) is a glaring example.
I suppose time will tell. As we all know by now, nothing infuriates me more as a Vorthos as cardless characters. Can't be looking to the future when we're roped by missing parts of the past...
On the other hand, Jenrik, you have a knack to choose the most obscure characters and then being disappointed they do not get a card. Like your namesake. Not Wizards' fault exactly.
But if Jenrik the character gets a card in SoI, I will rejoice with you.
I'm with DVincent here. I'm much more annoyed by characters who have a card but no story. Let's be real, not every story character would make an interesting card. I will note that this has a few exceptions, like with Tawnos and Ashnod who have cards named after them.
The cards I fell will disappoint, but we've had a fair number of returning characters in the last two commander sets.
Sign me up as well. I am actually glad that all the legends in BFZ had at least a cameo in the UR. If that is a trend, I do not complain. Too much potentially interesting legends with absolutely no story in the past.
Granted not all legends or named characters are deserving of cards. But some have been very alluring and been strangely absent. Taigam, the most popular cardless character of all, per MaRo's Blogatog poll (a character I don't care for in the slightest, but still) is a glaring example.
The main problem with Taigam was that people expect complete cycles. And since there were URs about him, everybody expected him to be there.
What we unfortunately did not quite expect was that there was not meant to be a cycle of monocolored legends, but a cycle of former khans.
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Former Fact Prospector of the Greek Alliance.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
On the other hand, Jenrik, you have a knack to choose the most obscure characters and then being disappointed they do not get a card. Like your namesake. Not Wizards' fault exactly.
But if Jenrik the character gets a card in SoI, I will rejoice with you.
The main problem with Taigam was that people expect complete cycles. And since there were URs about him, everybody expected him to be there.
What we unfortunately did not quite expect was that there was not meant to be a cycle of monocolored legends, but a cycle of former khans.
Yeah Jenrik wasn't as prominent, so I can forgive that. It's why I removed him from my list of wanted character cards a while ago. Honestly if I get Arixmethes as a card I'll drop this crusade.
I'd rather have a character left off of a card than given a bad one. Emmara Tandris is what we would have gotten for Taigam if Narset was not included in the legendary khans cycle.
Also, based on today's UR and what we've seen from the potential Eternal Pilgrim spoiler, we may see the appearance of Kozilek foster some clans/factions that represent previous allied groups (Kor, Merfolk) under the sway of the Eldrazi!
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----- "I cannot tune a harp or play a lyre, but I know how to make a small city great." - Themistocles
The main problem with Taigam was that people expect complete cycles. And since there were URs about him, everybody expected him to be there.
What we unfortunately did not quite expect was that there was not meant to be a cycle of monocolored legends, but a cycle of former khans.
If I wasn't wrong, one of the reasons for opting for a "cycle of former Khans" was because of a similar case where Ral Zarek was the intended Maze Runner and when decided they didn't want skewed rarities, they rushed out Emmara Tandris at the end (the Voice of Resurgence elemental token art was obviously Emmara's some point in design, based on the art) and created Melek, whose purpose story-wise was pretty much standing there and getting overtaken as a Maze Runner. Funny that they created the opposite scenario in Tarkir, where they gave the potential "Ojutai Khan" some story relevance, only to be denied a card instead, while no other "Non-Ojutai Khan" was assigned a skewed rarity (or at least being obviously more powerful in contrast to Emmara's power-down) when they decided they didn't mind it so much any more.
Well, recent UR means Lorthos won't be making an re-appearance as a new card... forever.
If I wasn't wrong, one of the reasons for opting for a "cycle of former Khans" was because of a similar case where Ral Zarek was the intended Maze Runner and when decided they didn't want skewed rarities, they rushed out Emmara Tandris at the end
Has that ever been confirmed? I've only seen it thrown around as some sort of theory as to why we didn't get a full cycle.
Anyway, the differene here is that they could have learned from the Emmara Tandris thing. Emmara's problem was that she was a rushed design. If they would have planned 5 legendary creatures plus Narset from the beginning there would have been no problem at all.
The khans cycle has nothing to do with the maze runners. The intention was always to have a cycle of former khans. The issue with Taigam was one of space.
Jenrik: why the devil would you want a Callephe card? S/he never actually showed up in the story. I'm mean a leviathan with a city on its back that is at least as big as something that effortlessly ripped Lorthos in two? Sure. But technically Callephe isn't even a story character. Just Kiora in a fancy suit. Like Caranthir said; you have an odd habit of picking the worst characters to demand a card for.
Has that ever been confirmed? I've only seen it thrown around as some sort of theory as to why we didn't get a full cycle.
Anyway, the differene here is that they could have learned from the Emmara Tandris thing. Emmara's problem was that she was a rushed design. If they would have planned 5 legendary creatures plus Narset from the beginning there would have been no problem at all.
The khans cycle has nothing to do with the maze runners. The intention was always to have a cycle of former khans. The issue with Taigam was one of space.
Thanks. Although I still think what happened to Emmara had an influence on their initial decision to stick with having a cycle of former Khans all the way. Based on what I could find from some other post on the forums with this quote from Blogatog:
Quote from Blogatog »
I would just like to say that I'm very happy that you are taking the time to look up Emmara's story and to write it down for us. This is the stuff that makes me like you! Smile (And you make Magic awesome.)
So here’s what happened. Originally, some of the maze runners (aka guild champions) were rare and some were mythic rare. They couldn’t all be mythic rare because we only had nine mythic rare slots. Ral Zarek, a planeswalker, had already taken up the tenth slot. (Planeswalkers for complexity and specialness reasons need to be mythic rare.)
We talked about Ral just being the Izzet representative but decided that for numerous purposes (Commander being one of the biggest) we wanted a blue/red legendary creature and thus an Izzet maze runner.
It was decided well into development that the maze runners should all be the same rarity which meant they had to be rare as mythic rare wasn’t possible. This resulted in us making some changes to turn the mythic rare maze runners into rare maze runners.
One of those swaps was Voice of Resurgence with Emmara. As many have guessed, Emmara originally made the */* token (seen in the background of her art). It wasn’t a straight swap and there was lots of massaging of both cards. That is what happened.
It's implied that during Dragon's Maze design, design was picky about having a UR Legendary Creature and that's why Melek was created (with honestly little relevance story-wise considering how long Melek was around for). Development seemed insistent that the cycle should all be the same rarity, resulting in the relatively last-minute swap that made Emmara.
Come to Dragons of Tarkir, design decides not to be so picky and that a planeswalker in a cycle with Legendary Creatures would be okay and development is also fine with 1 card of a cycle being a different rarity. While we don't have any confirmation, I find it plausible to believe what happened in Dragon's Maze had an influence with the decision to stick with the cycle all the way through. Then ironically, they gave more story-relevance to Taigam (as compared to Melek) and that expectations the other way round in terms of "from creative".
My apologies, I went to research on the topic after seeing the replies and after sculpting and posting, forgot what the thread was about and that it was not on-topic. I'll just leave it there since I already went through the search. Apologies again.
Back to Oath of the Gatewatch... now that Ulamog is free (again) and Kozilek has emerged, Sea Gate is pretty much gone. Considering how "fast" Ulamog was at consuming the plane already and now has Kozilek to assist... how many continents do we have left for the "resolution" of the story? At this point of time, if there isn't some sort of factor that drives the Eldrazi away by their "nature" (such as the planar-cleanser theory and that Omnath and Ob are plane-killers by identification), anything else that can save Zendikar will most likely feel like a cop-out, even if it's Ugin re-sealing the duo by fixing the "Hedron-World-Network" (or actually, especially if Ugin does that again).
I don't think we're getting any stories and/or official previews for the next two weeks (maybe a Christmas one, but I suspect that one will be Kozilek), so I don't think we have much to work with now other than existing theories, or a leak pops up.
Another relatively-related issue: Will this thread be the host for the spoiler discussion once the Fat Pack details are out or should another thread be created for that? I think we'll be halfway through the Oath story when that happens and honestly by that time, the UR thread will more or less already be discussing what this thread is supposed to discuss.
My apologies, I went to research on the topic after seeing the replies and after sculpting and posting, forgot what the thread was about and that it was not on-topic. I'll just leave it there since I already went through the search. Apologies again.
Back to Oath of the Gatewatch... now that Ulamog is free (again) and Kozilek has emerged, Sea Gate is pretty much gone. Considering how "fast" Ulamog was at consuming the plane already and now has Kozilek to assist... how many continents do we have left for the "resolution" of the story? At this point of time, if there isn't some sort of factor that drives the Eldrazi away by their "nature" (such as the planar-cleanser theory and that Omnath and Ob are plane-killers by identification), anything else that can save Zendikar will most likely feel like a cop-out, even if it's Ugin re-sealing the duo by fixing the "Hedron-World-Network" (or actually, especially if Ugin does that again).
I don't think we're getting any stories and/or official previews for the next two weeks (maybe a Christmas one, but I suspect that one will be Kozilek), so I don't think we have much to work with now other than existing theories, or a leak pops up.
Another relatively-related issue: Will this thread be the host for the spoiler discussion once the Fat Pack details are out or should another thread be created for that? I think we'll be halfway through the Oath story when that happens and honestly by that time, the UR thread will more or less already be discussing what this thread is supposed to discuss.
This absolutely should NOT be the thread for Fat Pack spoilers. I do not intend to read the Fat Pack, so someone should make a new thread for discussing any spoilery revelations. And spoiler tags don't count because they still contribute to the discussion.
Crush of tenactles seems to be Lorthos dragging Ulamog down into the depths, which I don't really get story-wise. It's heavily implied Lorthos is turned to mince meat before he reached Ulamog, which kinda makes me sad. I'd like to have had Lorthos dramatically drag down Ulamog down and Kiora slaying a god and have it be more than a pyrrhic victory, so that when Kozilek emerged and tore Lorthos apart it feels like even more got ripped away from the Zendikari.
Also, I feel like the Zendikari should have been given some remotely meaningful victory in the story. Zendikar getting hopelessly trashed was Rise's thing; BFZ really would feel better if it was more of a fight. At the same time, there is a measure of appreciation for them sticking to the very Call of Cthulhu feel of the story line, given the Eldrazi using lovecraft's elder gods heavily for inspiration.
Here is the above mentioned "Crush of Tentacles" and another "Wastes" card.
I don't think Crush of Tentacles shows any evidence of Lorthos. Lorthos ain't the only huge beastly octopus on Zendikar. It just shows that the sea monsters are fighting back. If anything it teases the reemergence of Kiora, but even that is sorta baseless speculation. PS. Loving the surge mechanic and its flavor. Cards become easier to cast and more powerful if you or an ally of yours has already cast a spell.
Also, new Wastes looks cool. More of Ulamog's destruction this time. Man, Zendi is really screwed. Even if they do save the plane, what will even be left of it to live on? Can the Zendikari restore it?
I don't know if it will be relevant or not, but Chandra's location on her card seems to be the same place as where Omnath was on its art. I would think Chandra is smaller than Omnath, so it's not the background being larger.
It's probably me just over-analyzing details since I'm still quite enthusiastic about my "The Eldrazi are planar cleansers and Omnath is the artificial plane-killer created by the trio to lure the Titans in, and to make the Titans leave by their own will is by removing Omnath" theory, especially now that they have pretty much lost any chance of winning the battle by combat or re-sealing, yet I don't see Zendikar completely perishing by the end of the story, which leaves them to perform the action Ugin advised Jace not to - "free them", except it isn't through combat (Kozilek vs Lorthos pretty much delivered that it wouldn't work anyway).
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The cards I fell will disappoint, but we've had a fair number of returning characters in the last two commander sets.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
With the last line I mean like it's difficult for me to get as excited about new sets when I'm still hung up about wanting certain things from past sets. Like why be excited about Tarkir when the most exciting thing for me is getting a card for Arixmethes and Callaphe from Theros? Something I want in SOI is a card for Jenrik, which may not happen. I'd rather be excited for sets because of the sets and new planes, not because I'm anticipating something that didn't or may not finally happen. I'd rather enjoy the normal pace of Magic sets and new planes than being impatient about return sets to accomplish what I wished had happened the first time around.
Granted not all legends or named characters are deserving of cards. But some have been very alluring and been strangely absent. Taigam, the most popular cardless character of all, per MaRo's Blogatog poll (a character I don't care for in the slightest, but still) is a glaring example.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
On the other hand, Jenrik, you have a knack to choose the most obscure characters and then being disappointed they do not get a card. Like your namesake. Not Wizards' fault exactly.
But if Jenrik the character gets a card in SoI, I will rejoice with you.
Sign me up as well. I am actually glad that all the legends in BFZ had at least a cameo in the UR. If that is a trend, I do not complain. Too much potentially interesting legends with absolutely no story in the past.
The main problem with Taigam was that people expect complete cycles. And since there were URs about him, everybody expected him to be there.
What we unfortunately did not quite expect was that there was not meant to be a cycle of monocolored legends, but a cycle of former khans.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Yeah Jenrik wasn't as prominent, so I can forgive that. It's why I removed him from my list of wanted character cards a while ago. Honestly if I get Arixmethes as a card I'll drop this crusade.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
We now know why Kiora isn't initially part of the Gatewatch.
She's either unconscious or dead.
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
"I cannot tune a harp or play a lyre, but I know how to make a small city great." - Themistocles
"I cannot tune a harp or play a lyre, but I know how to make a small city great." - Themistocles
If I wasn't wrong, one of the reasons for opting for a "cycle of former Khans" was because of a similar case where Ral Zarek was the intended Maze Runner and when decided they didn't want skewed rarities, they rushed out Emmara Tandris at the end (the Voice of Resurgence elemental token art was obviously Emmara's some point in design, based on the art) and created Melek, whose purpose story-wise was pretty much standing there and getting overtaken as a Maze Runner. Funny that they created the opposite scenario in Tarkir, where they gave the potential "Ojutai Khan" some story relevance, only to be denied a card instead, while no other "Non-Ojutai Khan" was assigned a skewed rarity (or at least being obviously more powerful in contrast to Emmara's power-down) when they decided they didn't mind it so much any more.
Well, recent UR means Lorthos won't be making an re-appearance as a new card... forever.
Has that ever been confirmed? I've only seen it thrown around as some sort of theory as to why we didn't get a full cycle.
Anyway, the differene here is that they could have learned from the Emmara Tandris thing. Emmara's problem was that she was a rushed design. If they would have planned 5 legendary creatures plus Narset from the beginning there would have been no problem at all.
Jenrik: why the devil would you want a Callephe card? S/he never actually showed up in the story. I'm mean a leviathan with a city on its back that is at least as big as something that effortlessly ripped Lorthos in two? Sure. But technically Callephe isn't even a story character. Just Kiora in a fancy suit. Like Caranthir said; you have an odd habit of picking the worst characters to demand a card for.
Hey, that's not necessarily true. He showed up in the story, he could still have a card in Oath of the Gatewatch.
I'm thinking "Lorthos, Seafood Sampler."
Lorthos, Calamari Calamity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=do0SSzir9Io&t=2m26s
Ha, that was funny and well done. But it's definitely not conclusive evidence that they're extinct.
Also, I just want to highlight some new art that can be found in "The Rise of Kozilek" UR. Nothing crazy or revelatory or anything. But we've got:
1) An up-close look at a hedron.
2) What looks to be the wall at Sea Gate torn asunder and corrupted in a very Kozilek-esque manner.
Thanks. Although I still think what happened to Emmara had an influence on their initial decision to stick with having a cycle of former Khans all the way. Based on what I could find from some other post on the forums with this quote from Blogatog:
It's implied that during Dragon's Maze design, design was picky about having a UR Legendary Creature and that's why Melek was created (with honestly little relevance story-wise considering how long Melek was around for). Development seemed insistent that the cycle should all be the same rarity, resulting in the relatively last-minute swap that made Emmara.
Come to Dragons of Tarkir, design decides not to be so picky and that a planeswalker in a cycle with Legendary Creatures would be okay and development is also fine with 1 card of a cycle being a different rarity. While we don't have any confirmation, I find it plausible to believe what happened in Dragon's Maze had an influence with the decision to stick with the cycle all the way through. Then ironically, they gave more story-relevance to Taigam (as compared to Melek) and that expectations the other way round in terms of "from creative".
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
My apologies, I went to research on the topic after seeing the replies and after sculpting and posting, forgot what the thread was about and that it was not on-topic. I'll just leave it there since I already went through the search. Apologies again.
Back to Oath of the Gatewatch... now that Ulamog is free (again) and Kozilek has emerged, Sea Gate is pretty much gone. Considering how "fast" Ulamog was at consuming the plane already and now has Kozilek to assist... how many continents do we have left for the "resolution" of the story? At this point of time, if there isn't some sort of factor that drives the Eldrazi away by their "nature" (such as the planar-cleanser theory and that Omnath and Ob are plane-killers by identification), anything else that can save Zendikar will most likely feel like a cop-out, even if it's Ugin re-sealing the duo by fixing the "Hedron-World-Network" (or actually, especially if Ugin does that again).
I don't think we're getting any stories and/or official previews for the next two weeks (maybe a Christmas one, but I suspect that one will be Kozilek), so I don't think we have much to work with now other than existing theories, or a leak pops up.
Another relatively-related issue: Will this thread be the host for the spoiler discussion once the Fat Pack details are out or should another thread be created for that? I think we'll be halfway through the Oath story when that happens and honestly by that time, the UR thread will more or less already be discussing what this thread is supposed to discuss.
This absolutely should NOT be the thread for Fat Pack spoilers. I do not intend to read the Fat Pack, so someone should make a new thread for discussing any spoilery revelations. And spoiler tags don't count because they still contribute to the discussion.
Also, I feel like the Zendikari should have been given some remotely meaningful victory in the story. Zendikar getting hopelessly trashed was Rise's thing; BFZ really would feel better if it was more of a fight. At the same time, there is a measure of appreciation for them sticking to the very Call of Cthulhu feel of the story line, given the Eldrazi using lovecraft's elder gods heavily for inspiration.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
Here is the above mentioned "Crush of Tentacles" and another "Wastes" card.
I don't think Crush of Tentacles shows any evidence of Lorthos. Lorthos ain't the only huge beastly octopus on Zendikar. It just shows that the sea monsters are fighting back. If anything it teases the reemergence of Kiora, but even that is sorta baseless speculation. PS. Loving the surge mechanic and its flavor. Cards become easier to cast and more powerful if you or an ally of yours has already cast a spell.
Also, new Wastes looks cool. More of Ulamog's destruction this time. Man, Zendi is really screwed. Even if they do save the plane, what will even be left of it to live on? Can the Zendikari restore it?
Kalitas is still alive, he's just been eldrazi'd like the vampire depicted in Dominator Drone
Hedrons are apparently unaffected by eldrazi corruption
We get a card showing what's left of Sea Gate!
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
It's probably me just over-analyzing details since I'm still quite enthusiastic about my "The Eldrazi are planar cleansers and Omnath is the artificial plane-killer created by the trio to lure the Titans in, and to make the Titans leave by their own will is by removing Omnath" theory, especially now that they have pretty much lost any chance of winning the battle by combat or re-sealing, yet I don't see Zendikar completely perishing by the end of the story, which leaves them to perform the action Ugin advised Jace not to - "free them", except it isn't through combat (Kozilek vs Lorthos pretty much delivered that it wouldn't work anyway).