It is worth noting that Cary isn't officially affiliated with Wizards!
Just wanted to amplify this before "Emrakul confirmed by Creative Team tweet!" passes into MTGS lore, assuming it isn't too late. The tweet is a fan's argument for more Eldrazi story appearances, not a hint from someone in the know.
Yeah, that was not clear since I didn't hear of this Vronos guy before, I assumed it was someone from creative. If that was the fan's argument, I find it pretty weak.
Yeah, that makes it far less valid. It's a point but not a hint dropped as word of god as I interpreted it.
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They didn't care that he was the savior of Fort Keff, the great hunter of Ondu, the champion of Kabira. To them, he was just another piece of flesh, a thing with life to be drained away.
It is worth noting that Cary isn't officially affiliated with Wizards! Just another viewpoint that I thought had some real validity, and Cary tends to be fairly on the point when it comes to figuring out what the Creative team are up to.
Vronos/Cary tends to be one of the least biased, more intelligent people in the storyline community, so he's able to discuss and theorize pretty well. I'd take his opinion over 99% of the people in the Storyline forum. He doesn't throw a tantrum at the story every other UC like a lot of people around here, so that's a plus, too. His theories may not be the gospel of Wizards Creative, but his thoughts are choice quality - you won't see him getting wet over the slightest hint of ChandraXNissa.
Hello everyone! Long time lurker first time poster. I just wanted to throw in my two cents to the SOI Big Bad Debate. Some of this may have been addressed already, but here goes.
First, Wizards has a history of not "overstaying their welcome," as it were, regarding planes and mechanics. We don't get two multicolored blocks in a row, for example. It would get dull, right? Not only that, but wasn't one purpose of the new block schedule to help eliminate that very problem? Exhaustion? Why make another set that will focus not only on Eldrazi, but also their colorless themes so soon? Wouldn't that just make this block a pseudo "third set?"
Unless they're just setting up for an Emrakul disaster, and don't plan to pull the trigger.
Personally, hearing what I felt was lament from Maro and Doug in the past, I find it hard to believe that the plane with one of the most beloved themes and settings is going to face possible extinction, like Zendikar. Do they plan to wipe out everything that makes Innistrad, Innistrad?
At the same time, the art book and all of this clue nonsense implies that the threat is new. It has to be "uncovered." I don't know about anyone here, and I can only wager a guess at Jace's actual intelligence, but I know my first thought when faced with the strangeness on Innistrad, after taking down two Titans would be, "Oh crap, is it the third one?" Knowing that this is the home plane of one of the ancient planeswalkers that originally sealed them? Where's the secret? The mystery? Don't we all... Expect it, kind of? My first thought about a shadow over Innistrad was Emrakul, before anything else. Wouldn't they know we'd guess that first? Maybe not, I don't know. This is all speculation. But why amp up the mystery then? Usually a mystery will give you a likely explanation then switch it up in the end.
Another thing I'm curious about is this whole business with the moon. Wasn't it alluded to in the first Innistrad block, with Tamiyo? Didn't that happen before or closer to the beginning of the Eldrazi first being released? Would Emrakul have made it that far, so soon? Why does the moon matter at all to Emrakul?
Finally, what about Liliana? Has anyone ventured a guess as to why she might be back on Innistrad, or care about the Eldrazi? Why wouldn't Jace get assemble the Gatewatch instead? Liliana is from Dominaria, and is pretty old. Another thing last seen on Dominaria, from another plane is Marit Lage. Could Liliana have useful information regarding her for Jace?
Just some thoughts, is all. I'm sure I'm missing or forgetting some details!
Vronos/Cary tends to be one of the least biased, more intelligent people in the storyline community, so he's able to discuss and theorize pretty well. I'd take his opinion over 99% of the people in the Storyline forum.
I hope I'm in that 1% left over.
Cary is one of the few Vorthos out there I like, I have to say. I can't stand most youtubers, and I have a strong dislike for Seibenlore's videos (which are good for what they are - entry level introductions to the lore, I'm just not a fan).
Personally, hearing what I felt was lament from Maro and Doug in the past, I find it hard to believe that the plane with one of the most beloved themes and settings is going to face possible extinction, like Zendikar. Do they plan to wipe out everything that makes Innistrad, Innistrad?
No. They might change Innistrad, the church might get destroyed, but the church isn't what 'makes' Innistrad, the gothic horror flavor does.
At the same time, the art book and all of this clue nonsense implies that the threat is new. It has to be "uncovered." I don't know about anyone here, and I can only wager a guess at Jace's actual intelligence, but I know my first thought when faced with the strangeness on Innistrad, after taking down two Titans would be, "Oh crap, is it the third one?" Knowing that this is the home plane of one of the ancient planeswalkers that originally sealed them? Where's the secret? The mystery? Don't we all... Expect it, kind of? My first thought about a shadow over Innistrad was Emrakul, before anything else. Wouldn't they know we'd guess that first? Maybe not, I don't know. This is all speculation. But why amp up the mystery then? Usually a mystery will give you a likely explanation then switch it up in the end.
Another thing I'm curious about is this whole business with the moon. Wasn't it alluded to in the first Innistrad block, with Tamiyo? Didn't that happen before or closer to the beginning of the Eldrazi first being released? Would Emrakul have made it that far, so soon? Why does the moon matter at all to Emrakul?
I also don't think it's Emrakul, I think it's something new.
I will say, it'd be interesting if the Eldrazi were natural predators for beings like Marit Lage, and with the death of two of the consequences are more Eldritch beings coming out of the woodwork... but that's just because I love Metroid Fusion, lol.
Finally, what about Liliana? Has anyone ventured a guess as to why she might be back on Innistrad, or care about the Eldrazi? Why wouldn't Jace get assemble the Gatewatch instead? Liliana is from Dominaria, and is pretty old. Another thing last seen on Dominaria, from another plane is Marit Lage. Could Liliana have useful information regarding her for Jace?
Jace has only heard of Innistrad, through Liliana. Likely, he needs a guide or something, or Liliana follows him there.
It's so delightful to see how much positive discussion Shadows over Innistrad has aroused compared to many previous sets. WotC seems to really have done things right this time. Let's hope they won't spoil the big mystery way too early or reveal the secret to be a huge bummer. This wish might be in vain but you can always hope.
I'm also very happy about this. BFZ was a transition block that just didn't work on a lot of levels, but I think we've got some renewed hope for SOI. Presuming the spoiled image is true for the ending, this seems like a much more fun set.
Vronos/Cary tends to be one of the least biased, more intelligent people in the storyline community, so he's able to discuss and theorize pretty well. I'd take his opinion over 99% of the people in the Storyline forum. He doesn't throw a tantrum at the story every other UC like a lot of people around here, so that's a plus, too. His theories may not be the gospel of Wizards Creative, but his thoughts are choice quality - you won't see him getting wet over the slightest hint of ChandraXNissa.
I don't tend to follow fan's opinions on things, it is not my preference. That said, what do you mean by the people of the storyline forum? People here have speculated in every single theory and are cracking their minds finding references and trying to understand the plot line. Someone pointed the Sea God that the Stromkirk used to worship, then someone pointed the symbol with three hooks, someone else saw the relationship between Marit Lage, the Ice Counters, the new The Thing in The Ice, and the posisbility of we having a double-faced land card.
People here are really smart. Maybe, individually, it is hard to put all the pieces together, but we are coming a long way to find out what's happening, and we've narrowed down to some few possibilities (if it turns out we were all wrong and it is a completely different thing, at the very least there was evidence for the other theories). Most criticism that I see from the stories here usually makes sense and directs my mind to details that I missed, not to mention that I get surprised by the difference of opinions (stories that I find weak, people like), and I can see why some aspects of storytelling are more subjective. There are authors and readers and fans here, so dismissing almost everyone in favour of a single guy, no matter how good he is, seems naive.
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Would you like to read Commander stories? Check my latest stories, coming from Lorwyn and Innistrad: Ghoulcaller Gisa and Doran, The Siege Tower! If you like my writing, ask me to write something for your commander as well!
There is no hope on Innistrad aside from the Church of Avacyn, the angels, and Avacyn herself protecting them. They have turned against some, but for what reason?
This makes me think that Avacyn has not turned against humanity. She and the inquisition are trying to stop a very real corruption. This wouldn't explain why Avacyn the Purifier is Red but it fits very well with what we know to be happening on Innistrad and with how Avacyn was designed.
Even though Cary isn't officially associated with Wizards the more I think about this theory the more I like it. The angels can't be killing indiscriminately or there wouldn't be an inquisition.
[edit]Okay, obviously I'm wrong now that I've read the story.
Kind of a creepy story this week. The most interesting part was the fact that Avacyn is 1,000 years old -- coincidentally created around the same time that Nahiri went to go looking for Sorin to explain why he never showed when the Eldrazi were starting to escape.
I don't know what to make of the Nahiri/Avacyn theories, but this alignment in time is obviously very important and last year's story about Nahiri's little run-in with the Eldrazi was clearly a plant for the SOI storyline. In short, Nahiri obviously had a major role in the creation of Avacyn. Whether she was used by Sorin in some way in Avacyn's creation or whether Nahiri helped Sorin create Avacyn and thus has knowledge of how to corrupt her remains to be seen.
Yeah the story was great this week! Ahh when avacyn and the angel sisters started talking about the "Great Work" i had visions of what phyrexia uses as their slogan...
Its probably nothing related to phyrexia but it is an interesting development
So I've been reading about Nahiri and how Ugin asked Sorin to seek her out. Then I came across Structural Distortion and its flavor text.
"As Zendikar has bled, so will Innistrad. As I have wept, so will Sorin." -Nahiri
With no mention of Emrakul on Zendikar, is it possible that Nahiri has lured him to Innistrad? From the wiki on Nahiri - "When vampires (which hadn't been seen on the plane in the earlier days) built a shrine on the nexus of the hedron network, the prison of the Eldrazi became unstable, and the brood lineages spilled over the plane again. Nahiri awoke and called for help to Sorin and Ugin but they didn't respond. She succeeded on her own, and restored the prison."
If she is strong enough to restore the Eldrazi prison on her own she must be strong enough to coax Emrakul into following her to Innistrad.
Sorry if this gets lengthy, but speculating is fun...
So we after today's article we know sorin created avacyn around the same time that nahiri left to find him 1000 years ago. Assuming sorin is searching for an answer to the vampire consuming their entire food supply, enter nahiri. She "builds the construct" of avacyn into which sorin brings to life. I think of other stories such as the one about Feldon of the third path and how different colors align with this sort of thing.
Additionally, maybe avacyns collar (her symbol) is a way for the mana of the plane to be directed and empower her. so a slight adjustment changes her whole protocol because she taps into the leylines for everything. It's like her foundation. Which nahiri could have helped structure.
Nahiri is a native kor and we don't know if she had any real way of surviving old age post mending. So sorin, as a precaution, has her build the hel vault for him as a way for avacyn to trap demons so they don't just remanifest after death. Sorin sticks nahiri in there sometime later to "preserve her." Nahiri spends X years in said prison that's steeped in black magic because of what's in there which manifests itself in a psychological change.
So after the vault is broken, nahiri is out and gets her bearings. She's angry, leaves to go to zendikar after some period of time (slowly dissipating amnesia maybe?) and goes to zendikar and planeswalks into a completely decimated area that's been consumed already by ulamog.
She leaves zendikar because without sorin/ugin the plane may as well be lost (remanants of her long exposure to black mana surfacing as hopelessness) and goes back to innistrad to subject it to the same fate. Ugin specially said he didn't tell them the Titans were killable. If she can successfully lore the eldrazi to innistrad, she can just travel the multiverse and lure them to uninhabited planes thereafter. She just wants revenge on sorin for, in her eyes, leading to her homes destruction to selfishly preserve his.
We know selfishness is a strong trait of his a because ugin outright speaks to that quality to Jace. You have to be some kind of self centered if that's the first thing they think about you when Come up in conversation.
I think thing in the ice is just another horror trope, I think tying it to marit lage takes away a plot hook for going back to other planes. Somethings up with the moon though.
I do think the moon has a negative influence on innistrad and maybe something was captured there to secure the safety of the plane. I think the old sea God/horror is a call out to lovecraft mythos and not an actual plot hook.
Eh I dunno, story today was awesome for sure and I'm super hyped to just get my hands on all of this flavor. If it was up to me the WotC would never do a large scale battle sequence again because this is already light years above BFZ block for me.
I really don't know what to think about the reason why the angels (except Sigarda) have gone mad.
The theory of Nahiri altering Avacyn's mind because the angel was "made" can make sense, but why the other angels (angels that this week story makes clear are different) are also corrupted?
While I can understand that some art may point to Emrakul, I think the angels' corruption has nothing to do.
Good work, WotC.
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Before the glory of Yawgmoth, yes, even this makes sense.
I really don't know what to think about the reason why the angels (except Sigarda) have gone mad.
The theory of Nahiri altering Avacyn's mind because the angel was "made" can make sense, but why the other angels (angels that this week story makes clear are different) are also corrupted?
While I can understand that some art may point to Emrakul, I think the angels' corruption has nothing to do.
Good work, WotC.
The corruption affects other beings, the mother, Kelse, was hit with an unusual anger towards her son.
She could not describe it, could not explain it. In a moment all her love and care had left, vanished into the growing dark, and anger had filled her fully, a lightning bolt striking her heart. And not just anger, but a seething resentment and scorn, emotions she had never felt about Maeli before. And worse, she had displayed those feelings in front of Avacyn. Avacyn, who had saved Maeli. Who had saved her.
So it seems that the natural angels can be affected, with Avacyn's madness directing their own toward her goals.
Could this whole thing have been triggered by Sorin trying to follow Ugin's instructions?
He put her in some sort of stasis without her consent and maybe used part of her in making Avacyn. He wakes her and explains that the Eldrazi have been freed and asks for her to help. She is not inclined to cooperate with him at this point.
Could Avacyn be incomplete and unbalanced by Nahiri's restoration?
This whole concept feels so forced. Like WOTC did not expect the original Innistrad to be such a hit, and didn't leave room in the story for a return the way they had for Theros. Avacyn Restored wrapped up the story nicely, and that could have been it for Innistrad, with the natural horrors there, but hope and angels to oppose it all the same.
This story feels like it's reaching.
Well. Nahiri seeking revenge is at least plausible. I think it would have been more palpable without twisting the angels, and Avacyn. Just have Nahiri as the villain and most helpless to stop her, with her having Oldwalker knowledge of how to undo Innistrad or whatever.
Maybe loss of faith in Avacyn and the angels is her way of corrupting Innistrad, by turning the tables and making the sincerest hope of the world into a villain. It's sad to see such loved characters become so inconsistent, and a solid ending to a conflict already get turned over. Makes me wonder if there's just going to be upheaval at every corner, with no real resolutions in the lore ever...
Is the cursemute healing some werewolfs completely a retcon? I thought becoming a Wolfir was the only option Avacyn could offer.
Aside from that, I really liked todays story, very creepy, especially when Sigarda was beeing circled by her sisters. There weren't many Angel POV stories before. And it's nice to have the powerpuff girls back, was afraid they'd become forgotten legends like other characters before.
Goblins might want to have a word with you. Dragons too, actually. Angels are, at best, the third most popular race.
Also speak for yourself. While somewhat cliche, it works as a story and I don't have anything against fallen/evil angels. (Heck, these aren't even the first in MTG.) Then again, I also wouldn't mind a good not entirely evil demon some time.
What HAS ruined angels however is still the utter lack of male ones. (I'm only half kidding here. It IS super annoying.)
Is the cursemute healing some werewolfs completely a retcon? I thought becoming a Wolfir was the only option Avacyn could offer.
It's a grey area really. It was originally stated that all werewolves were turned to wolfir, but it might also have been a way to shorten the text a bit. You don't want to cover every exception when you make a sweeping statement.
Personally, it does leave a bad taste in my mouth, because it kinda does take away from the "sacrifice" the wolfir had to make. (One that I actually would like to see explored sometime. How do their families and more importantly partners react, now that they're not even partially human anymore?) I'd rank it with the elder dragons "retcon". I don't count it as one in the strict sense, but it's still somewhat weird, because it does somewhat contradict what we were told before.
Warangel: As a member of 'the whole Christian community', please don't act like you represent us.
I'm perfectly fine with the 'corrupted Angel' story, not least because I can distinguish a story from reality.
So... I hate to bring up the 'Avacyn/Nahiri' thing, but Avacyn's descent into madness begins with a vision of hedrons. We have three (3) possibilities that I can think of, offhand.
1) Nahiri corrupts Avacyn, and the hedron vision is from a mind-meld type thing.
2) Emrakul corrupts Avacyn, and Avacyn is seeing when Emrakul 'moves' from Zendikar to Innistrad.
3) (Don't hurt me.) Nahiri is Avacyn, and the vision is from Nahiri's memories instead of Avacyn's.
So... can we try to set up a chronology in the set from what we know?
What we know:
Tamiyo is investigating the moon, and starts 'discovering' Avacyn's madness.
Jace gets Tamiyo's journal, possibly at Markov Manor.
Nahiri distorts Markov Manor.
Avacyn goes mad after seeing hedrons.
The madness is apparently contagious.
Avacyn goes full-bore Spanish Inquisition++ on Innistrad.
What else do we know, and what is the order everything happens in?
Specifically, can we tell whether or not there is any mention/appearance of Nahiri before Avacyn 'goes up'? Possibly from the art we've seen, we know that Jace and Tamiyo are seen together, and while most people are assuming this is from the end of the 'story' of SOI, maybe it's near the beginning, and Jace gets the Journal from Tamiyo after this?
Edit: Oh, yes, the 4th sister.
Should be the 'progenitor' of Flight Moonsilver, and clearly WB. Definitely hoping for a card.
They did managed to ruin this set story too. In the all history on mankind FALLEN angels = DEMONS. Angels = good guys. The first 3 sets had good vs evil. Now you have Jace vs everyone else. Stupid story again. Nobody wants angels to die so that the last light of hope humanity has dies.
I understand Avacyn was corrupted, but why the other angels look so horrible? The guys that did that artwork are really ****ed up in their head. A zombie is horrible because it is a walking corpse, but angels should be nice guys.
Angels where the most popular race in MTG. And now they ruined it. Congrats wizards!
Dragons, actually. Lots of market research behind that.
And angels have fluctuated in regards to horribleness. Modern depictions are simple, early ones were horrifying. Flaming wheels with hundreds of eyes, childlike figures surrounded by numerous wings the size of buses, inhuman humans. They always open with "Fear Not" in the Bible for a reason. And angels are not always good guys. Some of the most prevailing literature on angels has them as conflicted figures, not just "good guys." Dante's Inferno even has a few cantos about how the entrance to Hell is paved with angels, not who betrayed God, but who simply didn't choose a side in the fight.
I understand if your favorite tribe has just received representation that you don't like, but please don't claim ruin as fact when things have only just begun.
Warangel: As a member of 'the whole Christian community', please don't act like you represent us.
I'm perfectly fine with the 'corrupted Angel' story, not least because I can distinguish a story from reality.
So... I hate to bring up the 'Avacyn/Nahiri' thing, but Avacyn's descent into madness begins with a vision of hedrons. We have three (3) possibilities that I can think of, offhand.
1) Nahiri corrupts Avacyn, and the hedron vision is from a mind-meld type thing.
2) Emrakul corrupts Avacyn, and Avacyn is seeing when Emrakul 'moves' from Zendikar to Innistrad.
3) (Don't hurt me.) Nahiri is Avacyn, and the vision is from Nahiri's memories instead of Avacyn's.
So... can we try to set up a chronology in the set from what we know?
What we know:
Tamiyo is investigating the moon, and starts 'discovering' Avacyn's madness.
Jace gets Tamiyo's journal, possibly at Markov Manor.
Nahiri distorts Markov Manor.
Avacyn goes mad after seeing hedrons.
The madness is apparently contagious.
Avacyn goes full-bore Spanish Inquisition++ on Innistrad.
What else do we know, and what is the order everything happens in?
Specifically, can we tell whether or not there is any mention/appearance of Nahiri before Avacyn 'goes up'? Possibly from the art we've seen, we know that Jace and Tamiyo are seen together, and while most people are assuming this is from the end of the 'story' of SOI, maybe it's near the beginning, and Jace gets the Journal from Tamiyo after this?
Edit: Oh, yes, the 4th sister.
Should be the 'progenitor' of Flight Moonsilver, and clearly WB. Definitely hoping for a card.
I think we can safely say Nahiri and Avacyn are not the same person. The fact that Markov Manor is what it now is being the best sign of that, because we've got clear art of Nahiri doing it, and not Avacyn, and it's unlikely that they're flipping back and forth. If Avacyn and Nahiri were one and the same, her flip card would likely have been a lot different.
We know that the journal was found before meeting with Tamiyo, from flavor text. You don't refer to someone you've met as "This Tamiyo."
Flight Moonsilver sounds more akin to a flight of the corrupt Avacyn. Given her association with the Moonsilver Spear, the Heron in the Moon, the Helvault (made of Moonsilver) etc.
Yeah, that makes it far less valid. It's a point but not a hint dropped as word of god as I interpreted it.
But the people behind the barrier knew.
Vronos/Cary tends to be one of the least biased, more intelligent people in the storyline community, so he's able to discuss and theorize pretty well. I'd take his opinion over 99% of the people in the Storyline forum. He doesn't throw a tantrum at the story every other UC like a lot of people around here, so that's a plus, too. His theories may not be the gospel of Wizards Creative, but his thoughts are choice quality - you won't see him getting wet over the slightest hint of ChandraXNissa.
(Also known as Xenphire)
First, Wizards has a history of not "overstaying their welcome," as it were, regarding planes and mechanics. We don't get two multicolored blocks in a row, for example. It would get dull, right? Not only that, but wasn't one purpose of the new block schedule to help eliminate that very problem? Exhaustion? Why make another set that will focus not only on Eldrazi, but also their colorless themes so soon? Wouldn't that just make this block a pseudo "third set?"
Unless they're just setting up for an Emrakul disaster, and don't plan to pull the trigger.
Personally, hearing what I felt was lament from Maro and Doug in the past, I find it hard to believe that the plane with one of the most beloved themes and settings is going to face possible extinction, like Zendikar. Do they plan to wipe out everything that makes Innistrad, Innistrad?
At the same time, the art book and all of this clue nonsense implies that the threat is new. It has to be "uncovered." I don't know about anyone here, and I can only wager a guess at Jace's actual intelligence, but I know my first thought when faced with the strangeness on Innistrad, after taking down two Titans would be, "Oh crap, is it the third one?" Knowing that this is the home plane of one of the ancient planeswalkers that originally sealed them? Where's the secret? The mystery? Don't we all... Expect it, kind of? My first thought about a shadow over Innistrad was Emrakul, before anything else. Wouldn't they know we'd guess that first? Maybe not, I don't know. This is all speculation. But why amp up the mystery then? Usually a mystery will give you a likely explanation then switch it up in the end.
Another thing I'm curious about is this whole business with the moon. Wasn't it alluded to in the first Innistrad block, with Tamiyo? Didn't that happen before or closer to the beginning of the Eldrazi first being released? Would Emrakul have made it that far, so soon? Why does the moon matter at all to Emrakul?
Finally, what about Liliana? Has anyone ventured a guess as to why she might be back on Innistrad, or care about the Eldrazi? Why wouldn't Jace get assemble the Gatewatch instead? Liliana is from Dominaria, and is pretty old. Another thing last seen on Dominaria, from another plane is Marit Lage. Could Liliana have useful information regarding her for Jace?
Just some thoughts, is all. I'm sure I'm missing or forgetting some details!
Cary is one of the few Vorthos out there I like, I have to say. I can't stand most youtubers, and I have a strong dislike for Seibenlore's videos (which are good for what they are - entry level introductions to the lore, I'm just not a fan).
No. They might change Innistrad, the church might get destroyed, but the church isn't what 'makes' Innistrad, the gothic horror flavor does.
I also don't think it's Emrakul, I think it's something new.
I will say, it'd be interesting if the Eldrazi were natural predators for beings like Marit Lage, and with the death of two of the consequences are more Eldritch beings coming out of the woodwork... but that's just because I love Metroid Fusion, lol.
Jace has only heard of Innistrad, through Liliana. Likely, he needs a guide or something, or Liliana follows him there.
I'm also very happy about this. BFZ was a transition block that just didn't work on a lot of levels, but I think we've got some renewed hope for SOI. Presuming the spoiled image is true for the ending, this seems like a much more fun set.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
People here are really smart. Maybe, individually, it is hard to put all the pieces together, but we are coming a long way to find out what's happening, and we've narrowed down to some few possibilities (if it turns out we were all wrong and it is a completely different thing, at the very least there was evidence for the other theories). Most criticism that I see from the stories here usually makes sense and directs my mind to details that I missed, not to mention that I get surprised by the difference of opinions (stories that I find weak, people like), and I can see why some aspects of storytelling are more subjective. There are authors and readers and fans here, so dismissing almost everyone in favour of a single guy, no matter how good he is, seems naive.
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).
Even though Cary isn't officially associated with Wizards the more I think about this theory the more I like it. The angels can't be killing indiscriminately or there wouldn't be an inquisition.
[edit]Okay, obviously I'm wrong now that I've read the story.
I don't know what to make of the Nahiri/Avacyn theories, but this alignment in time is obviously very important and last year's story about Nahiri's little run-in with the Eldrazi was clearly a plant for the SOI storyline. In short, Nahiri obviously had a major role in the creation of Avacyn. Whether she was used by Sorin in some way in Avacyn's creation or whether Nahiri helped Sorin create Avacyn and thus has knowledge of how to corrupt her remains to be seen.
Its probably nothing related to phyrexia but it is an interesting development
Eldrazi EDH
"As Zendikar has bled, so will Innistrad. As I have wept, so will Sorin." -Nahiri
With no mention of Emrakul on Zendikar, is it possible that Nahiri has lured him to Innistrad? From the wiki on Nahiri - "When vampires (which hadn't been seen on the plane in the earlier days) built a shrine on the nexus of the hedron network, the prison of the Eldrazi became unstable, and the brood lineages spilled over the plane again. Nahiri awoke and called for help to Sorin and Ugin but they didn't respond. She succeeded on her own, and restored the prison."
If she is strong enough to restore the Eldrazi prison on her own she must be strong enough to coax Emrakul into following her to Innistrad.
So we after today's article we know sorin created avacyn around the same time that nahiri left to find him 1000 years ago. Assuming sorin is searching for an answer to the vampire consuming their entire food supply, enter nahiri. She "builds the construct" of avacyn into which sorin brings to life. I think of other stories such as the one about Feldon of the third path and how different colors align with this sort of thing.
Additionally, maybe avacyns collar (her symbol) is a way for the mana of the plane to be directed and empower her. so a slight adjustment changes her whole protocol because she taps into the leylines for everything. It's like her foundation. Which nahiri could have helped structure.
Nahiri is a native kor and we don't know if she had any real way of surviving old age post mending. So sorin, as a precaution, has her build the hel vault for him as a way for avacyn to trap demons so they don't just remanifest after death. Sorin sticks nahiri in there sometime later to "preserve her." Nahiri spends X years in said prison that's steeped in black magic because of what's in there which manifests itself in a psychological change.
So after the vault is broken, nahiri is out and gets her bearings. She's angry, leaves to go to zendikar after some period of time (slowly dissipating amnesia maybe?) and goes to zendikar and planeswalks into a completely decimated area that's been consumed already by ulamog.
She leaves zendikar because without sorin/ugin the plane may as well be lost (remanants of her long exposure to black mana surfacing as hopelessness) and goes back to innistrad to subject it to the same fate. Ugin specially said he didn't tell them the Titans were killable. If she can successfully lore the eldrazi to innistrad, she can just travel the multiverse and lure them to uninhabited planes thereafter. She just wants revenge on sorin for, in her eyes, leading to her homes destruction to selfishly preserve his.
We know selfishness is a strong trait of his a because ugin outright speaks to that quality to Jace. You have to be some kind of self centered if that's the first thing they think about you when Come up in conversation.
I think thing in the ice is just another horror trope, I think tying it to marit lage takes away a plot hook for going back to other planes. Somethings up with the moon though.
I do think the moon has a negative influence on innistrad and maybe something was captured there to secure the safety of the plane. I think the old sea God/horror is a call out to lovecraft mythos and not an actual plot hook.
Eh I dunno, story today was awesome for sure and I'm super hyped to just get my hands on all of this flavor. If it was up to me the WotC would never do a large scale battle sequence again because this is already light years above BFZ block for me.
Edited for clarity and spelling.
The theory of Nahiri altering Avacyn's mind because the angel was "made" can make sense, but why the other angels (angels that this week story makes clear are different) are also corrupted?
While I can understand that some art may point to Emrakul, I think the angels' corruption has nothing to do.
Good work, WotC.
Before the glory of Yawgmoth, yes, even this makes sense.
The corruption affects other beings, the mother, Kelse, was hit with an unusual anger towards her son.
So it seems that the natural angels can be affected, with Avacyn's madness directing their own toward her goals.
He put her in some sort of stasis without her consent and maybe used part of her in making Avacyn. He wakes her and explains that the Eldrazi have been freed and asks for her to help. She is not inclined to cooperate with him at this point.
Could Avacyn be incomplete and unbalanced by Nahiri's restoration?
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
This story feels like it's reaching.
Well. Nahiri seeking revenge is at least plausible. I think it would have been more palpable without twisting the angels, and Avacyn. Just have Nahiri as the villain and most helpless to stop her, with her having Oldwalker knowledge of how to undo Innistrad or whatever.
Maybe loss of faith in Avacyn and the angels is her way of corrupting Innistrad, by turning the tables and making the sincerest hope of the world into a villain. It's sad to see such loved characters become so inconsistent, and a solid ending to a conflict already get turned over. Makes me wonder if there's just going to be upheaval at every corner, with no real resolutions in the lore ever...
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
EDH: GWCaptain Sisay
Aside from that, I really liked todays story, very creepy, especially when Sigarda was beeing circled by her sisters. There weren't many Angel POV stories before. And it's nice to have the powerpuff girls back, was afraid they'd become forgotten legends like other characters before.
Now that's not nice. I bet the artists were just told (and paid) to draw some corrupted angels.
Goblins might want to have a word with you. Dragons too, actually. Angels are, at best, the third most popular race.
Also speak for yourself. While somewhat cliche, it works as a story and I don't have anything against fallen/evil angels. (Heck, these aren't even the first in MTG.) Then again, I also wouldn't mind a
goodnot entirely evil demon some time.What HAS ruined angels however is still the utter lack of male ones. (I'm only half kidding here. It IS super annoying.)
It's a grey area really. It was originally stated that all werewolves were turned to wolfir, but it might also have been a way to shorten the text a bit. You don't want to cover every exception when you make a sweeping statement.
Personally, it does leave a bad taste in my mouth, because it kinda does take away from the "sacrifice" the wolfir had to make. (One that I actually would like to see explored sometime. How do their families and more importantly partners react, now that they're not even partially human anymore?) I'd rank it with the elder dragons "retcon". I don't count it as one in the strict sense, but it's still somewhat weird, because it does somewhat contradict what we were told before.
I'm perfectly fine with the 'corrupted Angel' story, not least because I can distinguish a story from reality.
So... I hate to bring up the 'Avacyn/Nahiri' thing, but Avacyn's descent into madness begins with a vision of hedrons. We have three (3) possibilities that I can think of, offhand.
1) Nahiri corrupts Avacyn, and the hedron vision is from a mind-meld type thing.
2) Emrakul corrupts Avacyn, and Avacyn is seeing when Emrakul 'moves' from Zendikar to Innistrad.
3) (Don't hurt me.) Nahiri is Avacyn, and the vision is from Nahiri's memories instead of Avacyn's.
So... can we try to set up a chronology in the set from what we know?
What we know:
Tamiyo is investigating the moon, and starts 'discovering' Avacyn's madness.
Jace gets Tamiyo's journal, possibly at Markov Manor.
Nahiri distorts Markov Manor.
Avacyn goes mad after seeing hedrons.
The madness is apparently contagious.
Avacyn goes full-bore Spanish Inquisition++ on Innistrad.
What else do we know, and what is the order everything happens in?
Specifically, can we tell whether or not there is any mention/appearance of Nahiri before Avacyn 'goes up'? Possibly from the art we've seen, we know that Jace and Tamiyo are seen together, and while most people are assuming this is from the end of the 'story' of SOI, maybe it's near the beginning, and Jace gets the Journal from Tamiyo after this?
Edit: Oh, yes, the 4th sister.
Should be the 'progenitor' of Flight Moonsilver, and clearly WB. Definitely hoping for a card.
Dragons, actually. Lots of market research behind that.
And angels have fluctuated in regards to horribleness. Modern depictions are simple, early ones were horrifying. Flaming wheels with hundreds of eyes, childlike figures surrounded by numerous wings the size of buses, inhuman humans. They always open with "Fear Not" in the Bible for a reason. And angels are not always good guys. Some of the most prevailing literature on angels has them as conflicted figures, not just "good guys." Dante's Inferno even has a few cantos about how the entrance to Hell is paved with angels, not who betrayed God, but who simply didn't choose a side in the fight.
I understand if your favorite tribe has just received representation that you don't like, but please don't claim ruin as fact when things have only just begun.
I think we can safely say Nahiri and Avacyn are not the same person. The fact that Markov Manor is what it now is being the best sign of that, because we've got clear art of Nahiri doing it, and not Avacyn, and it's unlikely that they're flipping back and forth. If Avacyn and Nahiri were one and the same, her flip card would likely have been a lot different.
We know that the journal was found before meeting with Tamiyo, from flavor text. You don't refer to someone you've met as "This Tamiyo."
Flight Moonsilver sounds more akin to a flight of the corrupt Avacyn. Given her association with the Moonsilver Spear, the Heron in the Moon, the Helvault (made of Moonsilver) etc.
To be fair, neither does the obviously corrupt angel with the sword.