This is the Shadows Over Innistrad General Discussion Thread. Spoilers may be discussed here freely, without spoiler tags. General talk about the block, your opinions, theorizing, etc, are all welcome here!
Clue Tokens!
Art Clues
Flavor Text Clues
"We come bearing the word of Avacyn and the Lunarch Council."
"The message was clear to Sorin — Nahiri had paid Markov Manor a visit."
"'I'm certain that the fate of Markov Manor is connected to these cryptoliths...' This Tamiyo was on to something."
"The clues have begun to reveal a truth I hesitate to accept."
“As Zenikar has bled, so will Innistrad. As I have wept, so will Sorin.” — Nahiri
New cults rising in Nephalia have found allies in the Stromkirk bloodline, whose progenitor worships ancient and terrible forces.
"It serves as evidence of the ancient power of the deep, a reminder that the sea is the only thing worthy of reverence." --- Runo Stromkirk
"The city is overrun. I would say burn it to the ground, but that won't be necessary." —Inquisitor Delmund
"Wings that bore hope are now stained with blood. She is our guardian no longer." —Grete, cathar apostate
"Nothing will cool the fire in their blood. They are too far gone. We must keep them away from our towns at any cost." --- Cosper Lowe of the Silbern Guard
Entry 434: There's more to Avacyn's madness...
"Their Chanting Grows Louder as the Tide Rises". - Tamiyo's Journal
What we can conclusively say is happening
Avacyn and many angels have gone mad for an unknown reason.
Avacyn has a vision of "an image of many floating stone obelisks with intricate runes carved into their sides, moving in concert with each other..."
Avacyn is now consumed with her great work, slaughtering the impure humans.
The Cryptoliths bear a similarity with the Moon Heron (Paraselene)
The Stromkirk, led by Runo, are allying with the growing cults in Nephalia.
Runo was a priest of an ancient Sea God.
The Clue Token appears to be an amulet dedicated to possibly an ancient sea god
The cults associated with the clue token are also associated with the Cryptoliths (Wayward Disciple).
Either seaweed or a tentacle-like growth has appeared on dry land (Thraben Inspector).
The clue token seems to show the Moon against the sea, with three fish hooks. The moon controls the tides. The Helvault could store an untold number of horrible creatures, and it was made of moon silver. Reaper of Flight Moonsilver is a NEW flight of angels, seemingly centered around the horrid inquisition coming from the crazed angels. End Hijack
I have to say, I am really surprised we're doing two returns back to back! Don't get me wrong, I love Innistrad and am excited. But I also was looking forward to seeing a new world. Also, if this set features Liliana chasing more demons....why would it be on Innistrad? She already got that one.
Presuming Liliana is involved again (she definitely will, she's the only Origins PW not involved in the Zendikar plot) it will be following the Raven Man mystery.
As for the larger story? Well, the trailer pretty heavy-handedly implies that something bad has happened/will happen to Avacyn. Maybe she is twisted into a force for evil, maybe the truth of her origins comes to light and breaks the faith of her church. Either way I'll presume we see some more of the fallout from the shattering of the Helvault and the release of the demons within. And since Sorin should presumably be involved, Nahiri may have some connection here as well.
...and there better damn well be some more Werewolves, rather than Wolfir. That was never all that satisfying a compromise. In my own musings for future Innistrad plotlines I always intended for some of the surviving werewolves to somehow reverse the effect of the Cursemute or otherwise strengthen the power of their own cursed forms to make a resurgence. But with WotC doing things the way they have been, maybe fixing that is as simple as a retcon handwaving away some of the details of the Wolfir transformation, allowing for a reversion to their monstrous, feral forms.
Maybe they're gonna say Nahiri is there, so that's where Sorin is going.
Maybe Garruk has a second change of heart after killing a few cardless planeswalkers and decides to go meet Avacyn like originally planned.
Maybe Tamiyo will use her moon studies to save the plane.
Innistrad definitely wasn't as heavily hinted at as Zendikar in terms of story, not sure what they'll do there (except of course ignoring all changes that happened at the end of the previous visit, like with Ravnica)
We have no reason to believe this set will feature Liliana. It could feature Jace, however, since Ugin told Jace to go fetch Sorin. And there's the unresolved Nahiri thread...yeah, I can definitely see this being a Jace/Sorin/Nahiri story arc.
We know the planeswalkers in Magic Origins are going to be featured prominently within at least the next handful of story arcs. Gideon, Jace, Nissa, and Chandra are all involved in the Battle for Zendikar story. Liliana, then, ought to be involved in the next major story arc, which just happens to take place on a plane which is an important part of her personal history. That's plenty of reason to believe she'll be involved in Shadows over Innistrad.
While not a planeswalker, what I want to see is Tovolar(who should be a legendary werewolf) and well werewolves, not wolfir. I am also curious what Olivia has been up to.
The planeswalker I actually want to see appear on Innistrad the most, by far, is Ashiok. I couldn't think of a better match. If the manifested belief of god worship on Theros was amusing, then surely a plane with belief-fueled magic AND heaps and heaps of nightmare fuel ought to be an absolute playground.
The planeswalker I actually want to see appear on Innistrad the most, by far, is Ashiok. I couldn't think of a better match. If the manifested belief of god worship on Theros was amusing, then surely a plane with belief-fueled magic AND heaps and heaps of nightmare fuel ought to be an absolute playground.
I mean, it writes itself. Ashiok shows up and starts fueling the humans' paranoia, making them more aggressive and zealous in rooting out monsters. Remaining monsters take drastic action for the sake of survival, becoming far more threatening than they ever were before. Maybe the Raven Man manipulates Liliana into giving in to the Veil and doing something drastic... like killing Avacyn.
Avacyn losing it after finding out she is Nahiri maybe. That warping of stone looked awfully... Lithomantic. Also betting on the warped collar being the set symbol/a faction mark
My understanding was that only those who accepted Avacyns boons became Wolfir. I don't imagine Tovolar, who enjoyed the savagery of his state so much he stayed transformed, accepted it.
But honestly this is a real surprise for me. I was expecting a new plane with a new demon for Lili to go after.
If it was not a necessity to include planeswalkers as the central characters, i would really like seeing this story from the eyes of legendary creatures instead. I mean this has not happened since Lorwyn and if there is a plane (from a flavor standpoint) that could shine this way, that is clearly Innistrad since story development wasn't its strong point last time. Thalia is a great canditate.
This won't happen however, thus my money will go to Sorin-Nahiri and perhaps a Liliana cameo just for those paparazzi out there. Avacy-Nahiri shipping anyone? Anyone....?
On-topic, uh, hmmmm. I'd like to see what the current status of the Church is, seeing as how the Lunarch is dead (then got un-dead). IS there a new Lunarch? What are the creepysiblings up to?
Private Mod Note
():
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A giant dork. Who likes to eat with forks. Never used a spork.
Decks: Casual R Burn R
EDH R Godo Voltron R RUG ETB Overload RUG BW Clerics Pain and Drain BW GW Spirits!!! GW RUG Landfall Silliness RUG
On-topic, uh, hmmmm. I'd like to see what the current status of the Church is, seeing as how the Lunarch is dead (then got un-dead). IS there a new Lunarch? What are the creepysiblings up to?
Hunted Ghoul says that Gisa was imprisoned, no clue where Geralf is at though.
There that's better. Two returns in a row? A return to Innistrad? Not that I mind returning to Innistrad, but none of the current plots have anything to do with that plane. Garruk has left, Liliana is pursuing her demons, Jace is kind of busy being the guildpact and berating an ageless dragon on how to do stuff better and Sorin basically already has resolved the problem there. What even is there to do? I kind of hoped we'd get to see a new world with Liliana hunting down her demons.
Re: Trailer:
So the symbolism seems to be strong with this one. An angel's feather* falling from the sky, turning bloody and landing on a "Collar of Avacyn" triggering it to warp and contort itself in an ominous way? I'm really not sure if there actually is a deeper meaning behind it or if any speculation we could come up with are just a waste of everyone's time, because the makers of the trailer just thought 'it'd look cool' without any real reason behind it.
*I mean, we don't know it's from an angel, but everything else would be odd. The only thing that would make a tiny bit of sense would be a heron's feather, but even that seems weird.
Oh man... I really want to be excited... and I'm normally positive in my out look, but I need to say this.
The trailer seems to hint that we're getting Kozliek on Innistrad. And I really, REALLY am hoping that is not the case. I will be very upset if they return to my favorite plane in recent memory and make it "OMFG IT'S HUMANS VS ELDRAZI LOOK AT KOZILEK'S POWER!" First of all, there's Eldrazi burnout. Pretty straight forward concern. But more than that, if it is Kozilek, are they really trying to sell that of all the INFINITE PLANES of the multiverse the freed Eldrazi just so happen to go to the one Sorin is trying to protect them from right away? Really? Do they have a vendetta against the original three? Oh wait, they have spooky "alien" motives so that seems unlikely. I just... I can't. No Eldrazi please. It will destroy any positivity I have right now for creative.
*I mean, we don't know it's from an angel, but everything else would be odd. The only thing that would make a tiny bit of sense would be a heron's feather, but even that seems weird.
The trailer seems to hint that we're getting Kozliek on Innistrad.
The only thing that suggests that is the name sounding the "The Shadow Over Innsmouth". Kozilek isn't associated with feather or blood or snow or the moon. Lots of things can warp a piece of metal.
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This is the Shadows Over Innistrad General Discussion Thread. Spoilers may be discussed here freely, without spoiler tags. General talk about the block, your opinions, theorizing, etc, are all welcome here!
Clue Tokens!
Art Clues
Flavor Text Clues
What we can conclusively say is happening
The clue token seems to show the Moon against the sea, with three fish hooks. The moon controls the tides. The Helvault could store an untold number of horrible creatures, and it was made of moon silver. Reaper of Flight Moonsilver is a NEW flight of angels, seemingly centered around the horrid inquisition coming from the crazed angels.
End Hijack
Figured there should be a storyline forum to discuss this latest reveal. Shadows Over Innistrad is the Spring 2016 set! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm8CdY75K-s
I have to say, I am really surprised we're doing two returns back to back! Don't get me wrong, I love Innistrad and am excited. But I also was looking forward to seeing a new world. Also, if this set features Liliana chasing more demons....why would it be on Innistrad? She already got that one.
As for the larger story? Well, the trailer pretty heavy-handedly implies that something bad has happened/will happen to Avacyn. Maybe she is twisted into a force for evil, maybe the truth of her origins comes to light and breaks the faith of her church. Either way I'll presume we see some more of the fallout from the shattering of the Helvault and the release of the demons within. And since Sorin should presumably be involved, Nahiri may have some connection here as well.
...and there better damn well be some more Werewolves, rather than Wolfir. That was never all that satisfying a compromise. In my own musings for future Innistrad plotlines I always intended for some of the surviving werewolves to somehow reverse the effect of the Cursemute or otherwise strengthen the power of their own cursed forms to make a resurgence. But with WotC doing things the way they have been, maybe fixing that is as simple as a retcon handwaving away some of the details of the Wolfir transformation, allowing for a reversion to their monstrous, feral forms.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
Maybe they're gonna say Nahiri is there, so that's where Sorin is going.
Maybe Garruk has a second change of heart after killing a few cardless planeswalkers and decides to go meet Avacyn like originally planned.
Maybe Tamiyo will use her moon studies to save the plane.
Innistrad definitely wasn't as heavily hinted at as Zendikar in terms of story, not sure what they'll do there (except of course ignoring all changes that happened at the end of the previous visit, like with Ravnica)
We know the planeswalkers in Magic Origins are going to be featured prominently within at least the next handful of story arcs. Gideon, Jace, Nissa, and Chandra are all involved in the Battle for Zendikar story. Liliana, then, ought to be involved in the next major story arc, which just happens to take place on a plane which is an important part of her personal history. That's plenty of reason to believe she'll be involved in Shadows over Innistrad.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
We can hope for such glorious dementia casting.
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
But honestly this is a real surprise for me. I was expecting a new plane with a new demon for Lili to go after.
It's honestly close enough as is.
This won't happen however, thus my money will go to Sorin-Nahiri and perhaps a Liliana cameo just for those paparazzi out there. Avacy-Nahiri shipping anyone? Anyone....?
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
Snow. The feather lands on snow.
Snow permanents confirmed!!!!!
Man, I hate speculation season.
On-topic, uh, hmmmm. I'd like to see what the current status of the Church is, seeing as how the Lunarch is dead (then got un-dead). IS there a new Lunarch? What are the creepy siblings up to?
Decks:
Casual
R Burn R
EDH
R Godo Voltron R
RUG ETB Overload RUG
BW Clerics Pain and Drain BW
GW Spirits!!! GW
RUG Landfall Silliness RUG
Hunted Ghoul says that Gisa was imprisoned, no clue where Geralf is at though.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
No wait, that's not the proper reaction.
HUH.
There that's better. Two returns in a row? A return to Innistrad? Not that I mind returning to Innistrad, but none of the current plots have anything to do with that plane. Garruk has left, Liliana is pursuing her demons, Jace is kind of busy being the guildpact and berating an ageless dragon on how to do stuff better and Sorin basically already has resolved the problem there. What even is there to do? I kind of hoped we'd get to see a new world with Liliana hunting down her demons.
Re: Trailer:
So the symbolism seems to be strong with this one. An angel's feather* falling from the sky, turning bloody and landing on a "Collar of Avacyn" triggering it to warp and contort itself in an ominous way? I'm really not sure if there actually is a deeper meaning behind it or if any speculation we could come up with are just a waste of everyone's time, because the makers of the trailer just thought 'it'd look cool' without any real reason behind it.
*I mean, we don't know it's from an angel, but everything else would be odd. The only thing that would make a tiny bit of sense would be a heron's feather, but even that seems weird.
The trailer seems to hint that we're getting Kozliek on Innistrad. And I really, REALLY am hoping that is not the case. I will be very upset if they return to my favorite plane in recent memory and make it "OMFG IT'S HUMANS VS ELDRAZI LOOK AT KOZILEK'S POWER!" First of all, there's Eldrazi burnout. Pretty straight forward concern. But more than that, if it is Kozilek, are they really trying to sell that of all the INFINITE PLANES of the multiverse the freed Eldrazi just so happen to go to the one Sorin is trying to protect them from right away? Really? Do they have a vendetta against the original three? Oh wait, they have spooky "alien" motives so that seems unlikely. I just... I can't. No Eldrazi please. It will destroy any positivity I have right now for creative.
Raven Man reference?
The only thing that suggests that is the name sounding the "The Shadow Over Innsmouth". Kozilek isn't associated with feather or blood or snow or the moon. Lots of things can warp a piece of metal.