Yes, and also in a Planeswalker's Guide I think. He was a tertiary character at best so it's logical that you forgot about him.
I didn't even remember Runo until Drownyard Temple had everyone talking about him. In fact, I didn't remember any named characters from the plane that didn't get a card other than Tovolar because he was the forerunner back then for the Legendary Werewolf we never got and Vronos (not that Vronos lasted any longer than Jenrik, though).
I didn't even remember Runo until Drownyard Temple had everyone talking about him. In fact, I didn't remember any named characters from the plane that didn't get a card other than Tovolar because he was the forerunner back then for the Legendary Werewolf we never got and Vronos (not that Vronos lasted any longer than Jenrik, though).
You remember Stromkirk though right? They may not have mentioned Runo till now but the Stromkirk lineage was well established in the original block.
I didn't even remember Runo until Drownyard Temple had everyone talking about him. In fact, I didn't remember any named characters from the plane that didn't get a card other than Tovolar because he was the forerunner back then for the Legendary Werewolf we never got and Vronos (not that Vronos lasted any longer than Jenrik, though).
You remember Stromkirk though right? They may not have mentioned Runo till now but the Stromkirk lineage was well established in the original block.
Considering I forgot about the Falkenrath (and this set had Heir of Falkenrath...), if the Temple didn't bring back discussion about Runo Stromkirk in all his mysterious glory, I honestly might have really forgotten about the Stromkirks (I wasn't even sure of the number of Bloodlines and the major/minor ones)...
Innistrad built a great, diverse world, but didn't really provide enough information to make them memorable enough honestly, which is one of the few downsides of the block. I never really remembered the number of Bloodlines and Howlpacks when we got out of the plane back then, let alone their details.
It sounds as if Sorin trapped Nahiri in the helvault, being the only resource he had to deal properly with her ("The only stone that remained beyond Nahiri's influence seemed to be the Helvault"), that would explain why she was missing until now
So basically Sorin put Nahiri on Timeout. And she does not like being put in time out.
Why does "Nobody puts baby in the corner" dancing in my head right now
This is a little more extreme than timeout. She's been locked away for roughly a thousand years or so. Regardless of the reasons or justification, that amount of time in a prison would drive anyone crazy.
This is a little more extreme than timeout. She's been locked away for roughly a thousand years or so. Regardless of the reasons or justification, that amount of time in a prison would drive anyone crazy.
They also hinted that her time in stasis holding down the titans may have warped her mind from being semi connected to the eldrazi for so long.
-Nahiri was Sorin's student/protege.
-She was a kid when Sorin found her. Where we still don't know. May not be Zen.
-She has no magical influence over Helvault. Possibly made of an otherworldly material.
-Helvault was towed by Bob the Builder Sorin. Created by Bob the Builder Sorin.
What I'm interested in was Sorin's reply when she ask how was Avacyn under his control.
I believe the other Half is in reference to the 2 things he created to protect Innistrad.
""Hmm." Sorin extended his arm past Nahiri and pressed his hand against the surface of the Helvault. "You dedicated yourself to watch over the imprisoned Eldrazi, and it became clear to me that my plane was in dire need of its own protection, particularly in my absence. This Helvault is half of what I created to serve as such protection. It's not inconceivable that your signal from the Eye was unable to break through the magic that protects this plane.""
Avacyn would then be the other half.
Creating them is why he was so drained at the beginning of the story.
Edgar's fate is still unknown, since Olivia didn't seem particularly up-to-date with the situation of Markov Manor, but considering she raised the topic of Falkenrath Castle being destroyed by Avacyn, unless the Stromkirks were also attacked by Nahiri (which I don't think it is the case), it's more likely Runo is still alive.
The vampire lineages were hunted down by Siguarda and Gisela. They took out a big chunk of Falkenrath, and apparently several of the smaller bloodlines as well. I don't know how Markov fared, but they were decimated by Nahiri instead. Voldaren likely survived because Olivia's estate is extremely remote, in the farthest corner of Stensia from Thraben. The Stormkirks also likely survived largely unscathed, because they are headquartered on the Nephalia coast, whereas Siguarda focused her efforts in Stensia.
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Sorry, why do you all presume Nahiri was, after the tale, imprisoned in the helvault? Did I miss something? The helvault can only imprison mana pure creatures, while planeswalker could have been something like that pre mending, we have to consider she is now a planeswalker card. We know planeswalker cards (exception due for commander ones) are post mending mode only. So assuming she was trapped you admit she is still a premending planeswalker, cause if she became a newwalker while in the helvault she would have been rejected immediately after the great mending (so innistrad would have been in ruins millennia ago because of her wrath) or destroyed, crashed and fused (atomized, if you allow me) with the silvermoon rock she could not control... so just dead. Or am I missing an important clue saying she was trapped in the helvault?
While Nahiri was going nuts, Sorin noticed (somehow) that Nahiri was unable to affect the stone of the helvault. We also have to explain Nahiri's inexplicable absence for the last thousand years or so after she went looking for Sorin. It all fits neatly. They also just happen to fight right next to the thing.
If there are old inconvenient story reasons from original Innistrad why Nahiri couldn't be trapped in it, I suspect it'll be glossed over.
-Nahiri was Sorin's student/protege.
-She was a kid when Sorin found her. Where we still don't know. May not be Zen.
-She has no magical influence over Helvault. Possibly made of an otherworldly material.
-Helvault was towed by Bob the Builder Sorin. Created by Bob the Builder Sorin.
What I'm interested in was Sorin's reply when she ask how was Avacyn under his control.
"The other half."
A cryptic response, and for us to savor.
There's nothing cryptic about it. The first half was the Helvault (his "rudimentary attempt at shaping stone"), and the second was Avacyn. He created a prison where things that couldn't simply be destroyed could be stored away, and a hunter to collect them for storage.
Also, regarding trapping Nahiri in the Helvault, she doesn't seem to need to eat or breathe. She's been fine encasing herself in stone on Zendikar for hundreds of years. It could be that while demons are "mystically" trapped in the Helvault, Sorin may have just simply physically encased her in it.
-Nahiri was Sorin's student/protege.
-She was a kid when Sorin found her. Where we still don't know. May not be Zen.
-She has no magical influence over Helvault. Possibly made of an otherworldly material.
-Helvault was towed by Bob the Builder Sorin. Created by Bob the Builder Sorin.
What I'm interested in was Sorin's reply when she ask how was Avacyn under his control.
"The other half."
A cryptic response, and for us to savor.
We know for sure it wasn't Zendikar because her first planeswalk brought her to Sorin. Info from the Zen art book btw. And being a lithomancer, she manipulates stone, and can forge metal from it. I doubt it works in reverse.
Sorry, why do you all presume Nahiri was, after the tale, imprisoned in the helvault? Did I miss something? The helvault can only imprison mana pure creatures, while planeswalker could have been something like that pre mending, we have to consider she is now a planeswalker card. We know planeswalker cards (exception due for commander ones) are post mending mode only. So assuming she was trapped you admit she is still a premending planeswalker, cause if she became a newwalker while in the helvault she would have been rejected immediately after the great mending (so innistrad would have been in ruins millennia ago because of her wrath) or destroyed, crashed and fused (atomized, if you allow me) with the silvermoon rock she could not control... so just dead. Or am I missing an important clue saying she was trapped in the helvault?
Logic, as to what you're missing. Or, the best that can logically be presumed with the facts we have so far. Unless waiting a thousand years to continue her grudge makes more sense to you.
Yeah, the pieces seem to add up conveniently to "Nahiri was trapped in the Helvault":
Nahiri cannot affect the Helvault, making it safe to lock her up in it;
A large number of beings can be imprisoned in the Helvault, suggesting a magical storage means other than just physically shoving them into a confined space (probably something akin to the containment used in Ghostbusters). This could suggest some kind of magical stasis that suspends aging;
Nahiri is still alive and young decades/100+ years after the Mending;
Sorin and Nahiri had their altercation right next to the Helvault;
The Helvault was destroyed relatively recently, releasing all its contents; and
Sorin felt some approximation of guilt over what happened between him and Nahiri when discussing the matter with Ugin.
There was probably some argument that happened after this story, Sorin somehow caught Nahiri off guard and trapped her in the Helvault.
Also, interesting tidbit from the story: I guess that shadow of an angel is currently etched onto the floor of the Vault of the Archangel.
Nahiri being locked in the Helvault does sound like that's the path they're going down. I guess being trapped there would have protected her from the Mending until the vault got opened, which would explain why she's not 100+ years in appearance.
Yeah, the pieces seem to add up conveniently to "Nahiri was trapped in the Helvault":
I don't know. Nahiri has quite a few lines of flavour text on cards in SOI, but being trapped in the Helvault for millenia is not even hinted at in one of them, which would be very very strange.
Then you have this whole thing of "Liliana destroyed the Helvault and neither she nor the surrounding people noticed a pale white woman anywhere near the ruins."
I'm not saying "Nahiri was definitely NOT imprisoned" but if creative goes this route, it is very jarring and kind of creates some awkward flow in the story, at least from what we've been told so far.
I don't know. Nahiri has quite a few lines of flavour text on cards in SOI, but being trapped in the Helvault for millenia is not even hinted at in one of them, which would be very very strange.
Then you have this whole thing of "Liliana destroyed the Helvault and neither she nor the surrounding people noticed a pale white woman anywhere near the ruins."
I'm not saying "Nahiri was definitely NOT imprisoned" but if creative goes this route, it is very jarring and kind of creates some awkward flow in the story, at least from what we've been told so far.
Then again, convenient ret-cons with a complete disregard to a flow in story has not stopped them in the past before :/
(but to be clear, I do agree with you here though)
Then you have this whole thing of "Liliana destroyed the Helvault and neither she nor the surrounding people noticed a pale white woman anywhere near the ruins."
I can forgive people for not noticing a Kor woman exiting the Helvault along side countless demons and the plane's savior angel
We know planeswalker cards (exception due for commander ones) are post mending mode only.
Ugin, the Spirit Dragon.
Which has nothing to do with Nahiri's SoI card (that's obviously neowalker), but still, there were exceptions other than Commander.
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But she was made of pure mana at that time... she was a demigod, she could even decide to become blue skinned if she really wanted and committed to it.
As far as I understand, no she wasn't. People don't just become pure mana, planeswalkers don't just become pure mana. Neither do demigods, by the way.
Even if it was possible, why would she?
Also, as Whirl said, there is no confirmation that the Helvault could only trap "pure mana" beings.
I don't think we have to believe she was made of "pure mana". Her ability to survive encased in stone is more likely related to her power of lithomancy than her being an oldwalker at the time.
Yeah, the pieces seem to add up conveniently to "Nahiri was trapped in the Helvault":
I'm not saying "Nahiri was definitely NOT imprisoned" but if creative goes this route, it is very jarring and kind of creates some awkward flow in the story, at least from what we've been told so far.
If Nahiri was not imprisoned (whether in the Helvault or anywhere else), or put to sleep, or somehow rendered inactive, then creative needs to explain why she abandoned her post in Zendikar and allowed the events to happen which caused the Eldrazi to rise.
Don't remember where, but then why don't trap werewolves, horrors etc in it?
It was designed to trap things that Avacyn can't destroy. She doesn't have a problem killing werewolves and vampires. These demons may not be literally impossible to kill, since Lili wanted to kill a demon trapped in it, but some of those demons may be beyond Avacyn's ability to destroy.
Similarly, Avacyn appeared to be losing her fight with Nahiri, and Sorin was weakened. It may be the case that he had to trap her.
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I didn't even remember Runo until Drownyard Temple had everyone talking about him. In fact, I didn't remember any named characters from the plane that didn't get a card other than Tovolar because he was the forerunner back then for the Legendary Werewolf we never got and Vronos (not that Vronos lasted any longer than Jenrik, though).
Considering I forgot about the Falkenrath (and this set had Heir of Falkenrath...), if the Temple didn't bring back discussion about Runo Stromkirk in all his mysterious glory, I honestly might have really forgotten about the Stromkirks (I wasn't even sure of the number of Bloodlines and the major/minor ones)...
Innistrad built a great, diverse world, but didn't really provide enough information to make them memorable enough honestly, which is one of the few downsides of the block. I never really remembered the number of Bloodlines and Howlpacks when we got out of the plane back then, let alone their details.
This is a little more extreme than timeout. She's been locked away for roughly a thousand years or so. Regardless of the reasons or justification, that amount of time in a prison would drive anyone crazy.
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-Nahiri was Sorin's student/protege.
-She was a kid when Sorin found her. Where we still don't know. May not be Zen.
-She has no magical influence over Helvault. Possibly made of an otherworldly material.
-Helvault was towed by
Bob the BuilderSorin. Created byBob the BuilderSorin.What I'm interested in was Sorin's reply when she ask how was Avacyn under his control.
"The other half."
A cryptic response, and for us to savor.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
""Hmm." Sorin extended his arm past Nahiri and pressed his hand against the surface of the Helvault. "You dedicated yourself to watch over the imprisoned Eldrazi, and it became clear to me that my plane was in dire need of its own protection, particularly in my absence. This Helvault is half of what I created to serve as such protection. It's not inconceivable that your signal from the Eye was unable to break through the magic that protects this plane.""
Avacyn would then be the other half.
Creating them is why he was so drained at the beginning of the story.
The vampire lineages were hunted down by Siguarda and Gisela. They took out a big chunk of Falkenrath, and apparently several of the smaller bloodlines as well. I don't know how Markov fared, but they were decimated by Nahiri instead. Voldaren likely survived because Olivia's estate is extremely remote, in the farthest corner of Stensia from Thraben. The Stormkirks also likely survived largely unscathed, because they are headquartered on the Nephalia coast, whereas Siguarda focused her efforts in Stensia.
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While Nahiri was going nuts, Sorin noticed (somehow) that Nahiri was unable to affect the stone of the helvault. We also have to explain Nahiri's inexplicable absence for the last thousand years or so after she went looking for Sorin. It all fits neatly. They also just happen to fight right next to the thing.
If there are old inconvenient story reasons from original Innistrad why Nahiri couldn't be trapped in it, I suspect it'll be glossed over.
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We know for sure it wasn't Zendikar because her first planeswalk brought her to Sorin. Info from the Zen art book btw. And being a lithomancer, she manipulates stone, and can forge metal from it. I doubt it works in reverse.
Logic, as to what you're missing. Or, the best that can logically be presumed with the facts we have so far. Unless waiting a thousand years to continue her grudge makes more sense to you.
There was probably some argument that happened after this story, Sorin somehow caught Nahiri off guard and trapped her in the Helvault.
Also, interesting tidbit from the story: I guess that shadow of an angel is currently etched onto the floor of the Vault of the Archangel.
I don't know. Nahiri has quite a few lines of flavour text on cards in SOI, but being trapped in the Helvault for millenia is not even hinted at in one of them, which would be very very strange.
Then you have this whole thing of "Liliana destroyed the Helvault and neither she nor the surrounding people noticed a pale white woman anywhere near the ruins."
I'm not saying "Nahiri was definitely NOT imprisoned" but if creative goes this route, it is very jarring and kind of creates some awkward flow in the story, at least from what we've been told so far.
Then again, convenient ret-cons with a complete disregard to a flow in story has not stopped them in the past before :/
(but to be clear, I do agree with you here though)
Sorry - could you point me to a place that confirms this notion? Never heard about this earlier.
Also,
Ugin, the Spirit Dragon.
Which has nothing to do with Nahiri's SoI card (that's obviously neowalker), but still, there were exceptions other than Commander.
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As far as I understand, no she wasn't. People don't just become pure mana, planeswalkers don't just become pure mana. Neither do demigods, by the way.
Even if it was possible, why would she?
Also, as Whirl said, there is no confirmation that the Helvault could only trap "pure mana" beings.
Edit for new reply:
Because you can simply kill werewolves, horrors and etc without risking them just reforming into new werewolves, horrors and etc.
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UBR Grixis Tutelage
Modern
UR Storm
Legacy
Landless Dredge
Pauper
U Delver
Commander
UR Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
If Nahiri was not imprisoned (whether in the Helvault or anywhere else), or put to sleep, or somehow rendered inactive, then creative needs to explain why she abandoned her post in Zendikar and allowed the events to happen which caused the Eldrazi to rise.
It was designed to trap things that Avacyn can't destroy. She doesn't have a problem killing werewolves and vampires. These demons may not be literally impossible to kill, since Lili wanted to kill a demon trapped in it, but some of those demons may be beyond Avacyn's ability to destroy.
Similarly, Avacyn appeared to be losing her fight with Nahiri, and Sorin was weakened. It may be the case that he had to trap her.