I get the point that we havn't gotten anything that definitively says "Emrakul or Marit Lage is here" but frankly I don't expect that we will. At least not until Eldritch Moon at the soonest. That would just ruin the whole story (kind of like some of the reveals in BfZ and OGW).
This is supposed to be Lovecraftian, and that means dropping hints along the way but only a complete confirmation of the horrorible truth at the end.
There is quite a lot of circumstantial evidence (which is the kind of evidence I would expect) behind the Emrakul theory. Meanwhile, other theories continue be based primarily off the idea that the Emrakul evidence could be construed differently. But no other theory offers as a complete picture of what is going on.
IMO I think the opposition my many to the Emrakul theory comes more from an eldrazi burnout, rather than the actually likelihood of them being there. But I get it, BfZ was very heavy handed, and dissapointed a lot of people and they don't want to see another favorite plane handled poorly.
But it seems pretty clear that (assuming Emrakul is there) we will NOT be seeing eldrazi hordes on Innistrad.
What I'm really hoping for (I know this a long shot) is that Marit Lage is asleep in the ocean AND that Nahiri has trapped Emrakul inside the Moon. This plays more to Lovecraft's pantheon of gods.
I get the point that we havn't gotten anything that definitively says "Emrakul or Marit Lage is here" but frankly I don't expect that we will. At least not until Eldritch Moon at the soonest. That would just ruin the whole story (kind of like some of the reveals in BfZ and OGW).
This is supposed to be Lovecraftian, and that means dropping hints along the way but only a complete confirmation of the horrorible truth at the end.
There is quite a lot of circumstantial evidence (which is the kind of evidence I would expect) behind the Emrakul theory. Meanwhile, other theories continue be based primarily off the idea that the Emrakul evidence could be construed differently. But no other theory offers as a complete picture of what is going on.
IMO I think the opposition my many to the Emrakul theory comes more from an eldrazi burnout, rather than the actually likelihood of them being there. But I get it, BfZ was very heavy handed, and dissapointed a lot of people and they don't want to see another favorite plane handled poorly.
But it seems pretty clear that (assuming Emrakul is there) we will NOT be seeing eldrazi hordes on Innistrad.
What I'm really hoping for (I know this a long shot) is that Marit Lage is asleep in the ocean AND that Nahiri has trapped Emrakul inside the Moon. This plays more to Lovecraft's pantheon of gods.
Funny you say that. I have the impression that people keep pointing multiple consistent reasons and arguments as to why it couldn't be eldrazi. There are storytelling reasons both related to Emrakul's and the eldrazi's characteristics and reasons purely related to what would make a good story philosophy-wise. Not only that, but there are multiple clues and indications that there is something more to the Sea God, and people who believe in the Emrakul theory just choose to ignore that.
Basically, I believe the opposite of what you said: people want to be the eldrazi, so they ignore contrary evidence, while there is much stronger evidence pointing towards another direction (the Sea God and, possibly, this God being Marit Lage).
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I have an off the wall theory that the Eldrazi Titans are connected to Marit Lage. Either they are Marit Lage or are manifestations of Marit Lage. I'll try and explain. In the story about Drana when she takes the eldrazi's power he has a feeling of some larger force that is in pieces and that it wants to be back to a singular form. I think that some how the Elder Dragons or Maybe just Ugin & Nicole Bolas might have teamed up to stop Marit Lage by separating it into the Three Titans. that is why Ugin is like don't kill the titans you have to trap them, and also why Nicole Bolas would know about them and be considered, even more reckless by Ugin for wanting to set them free. I don't know it's just a wild theory.
Spectulated Runo Stromkirk was just a random Olivia underling. So sad. And what is up with all these vampire arts that are good up close and terrible on the cards?
Well, at least Sorin is properly pissed off.
Well,that was some epic level trolling from Wizards...:)
It seems that having funky legs is the curse of the Voldaren.:)
Anyway,it looks like only the Falkenrath are overcome by the berserker hunger,the other vampires look more composed and still noble/eloquent. Only Olivia is quite pissed. And I quite like the idea of monsters joining forces to save Innistrad from angels.
And heck yeah Sigarda! If that card does not scream "I will protect humans no matter what" then I do not know what.
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So now we have another war-footing Voldaren. Anyone know where the Maurer Estate is or what lineage those children might be? And that looks like a quite sane and noble Stromkirk. I'm getting more and more convinced those bloodline stones are important, so I'm going to say that what Innistrad needs now is hope. And with the archangel of hope gone a little wonky, that hope will have to come from an unexpected source: an unknown lineage of G-aligned vampires.
So now we have another war-footing Voldaren. Anyone know where the Maurer Estate is or what lineage those children might be? And that looks like a quite sane and noble Stromkirk. I'm getting more and more convinced those bloodline stones are important, so I'm going to say that what Innistrad needs now is hope. And with the archangel of hope gone a little wonky, that hope will have to come from an unexpected source: an unknown lineage of G-aligned vampires.
i've always wondered what Golgari vamps would be like. More neutral than your typical bloodsucker?
I get the point that we havn't gotten anything that definitively says "Emrakul or Marit Lage is here" but frankly I don't expect that we will. At least not until Eldritch Moon at the soonest. That would just ruin the whole story (kind of like some of the reveals in BfZ and OGW).
This is supposed to be Lovecraftian, and that means dropping hints along the way but only a complete confirmation of the horrorible truth at the end.
There is quite a lot of circumstantial evidence (which is the kind of evidence I would expect) behind the Emrakul theory. Meanwhile, other theories continue be based primarily off the idea that the Emrakul evidence could be construed differently. But no other theory offers as a complete picture of what is going on.
IMO I think the opposition my many to the Emrakul theory comes more from an eldrazi burnout, rather than the actually likelihood of them being there. But I get it, BfZ was very heavy handed, and dissapointed a lot of people and they don't want to see another favorite plane handled poorly.
But it seems pretty clear that (assuming Emrakul is there) we will NOT be seeing eldrazi hordes on Innistrad.
What I'm really hoping for (I know this a long shot) is that Marit Lage is asleep in the ocean AND that Nahiri has trapped Emrakul inside the Moon. This plays more to Lovecraft's pantheon of gods.
Funny you say that. I have the impression that people keep pointing multiple consistent reasons and arguments as to why it couldn't be eldrazi. There are storytelling reasons both related to Emrakul's and the eldrazi's characteristics and reasons purely related to what would make a good story philosophy-wise. Not only that, but there are multiple clues and indications that there is something more to the Sea God, and people who believe in the Emrakul theory just choose to ignore that.
Basically, I believe the opposite of what you said: people want to be the eldrazi, so they ignore contrary evidence, while there is much stronger evidence pointing towards another direction (the Sea God and, possibly, this God being Marit Lage).
For me at least the biggest two theories are Eldrazi and Marit Lage. I am leaning towards Marit Lage but I would not be amazed if it is the opposite.
The non-evidence reason I want to be Marit Lage is because it would be a good twist for a mystery block (I know it is a Lovecraftian block but it has mystery in it). All the people I know called Emrakul from the first trailer with the father. Finding out that it is Emrakul right now would be the expected and there will be no mystery to it, while with Marit Lage it will be more unexpected.
Whatever it is, the writing team has already decided way before BFZ, and it is making the above sentence that I just wrote kinda null. They could have decided it is killing tomatoes and are waiting to see our faces after that unexpected twist.
To me the idea of the twist is the strongest argument behind Marit Lage. To clarify my position, I would be pleasantlty surprised if it turned out to be Marit Lage, but right now I think there are a lot more hints at Emrakul than at Marit Lage.
It does seem like the sea god and whatever is in the Moon are different entities. Which is why I have my fingers crossed that it is both of them.
I think it's worth emphasising that there are two parts to that Marit Lage theory.
First is that the big bad may well be the ancient sea-god that Runo Stromkirk worships.
The second part is then speculation as to whether that sea-god may turn out to be Marit Lage. There is probably a lot of evidence for the first part of that - the sea god - that on its own doesn't point to Marit Lage, but could be concluded to do so IF the second part can be shown to be likely. I rather suspect the second part is the more speculative / circumstantial bit.
And with the spoiling of Ormendahl we now have another (extremely) big bad for this set. But he's the object of the Skirsdag's attention, not Nahiri's. Does the DFC land becoming Ormendahl add weight *against* Marit Lage? Does Avacyn's eyes darkening like the Cathar's wife's suggest Ormendahl is behind her corruption at least? So many threads!
I think the sense is that it reads something like:
"After the disappearance of Griselbrand, the Skirsdag cultists waited with impatience for another demon worthy of their devotion. Ormendahl did not make them wait too long."
I think the sense is that it reads something like:
"After the disappearance of Griselbrand, the Skirsdag cultists waited with impatience for another demon worthy of their devotion. Ormendahl did not make them wait too long."
Heh, I approximated it here as follows "After the disappearance of Griselbrand, the Skirsdag cultists impatiently awaited another demon worthy of their devotion. Ormendahl had not let them wait long."
And I have only a rudimentary knowledge of French, but the text is written in such a way that it is almost clear from the proper nouns by themselves.
What I find funny is that it is a Westwale Abbey in English, but Eastvale Valley in French. After "Avacyn, the scourge of fishermen", the second English to French translation fail in this set.
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Flavour text:
"This is it! All the cryptoliths point here!" Jace Beleren
So... do all the cryptoliths literally point to there? Or does he mean figuratively? Is that the singular focus of all Nahiri's handiwork? Because if so, I'm *definitely* back in the Marit Lage / Sea-God camp again rather than Emrakul.
On a different note, I am exhausted from all this jumping from one side of the fence to the other and back!
Flavour text:
"This is it! All the cryptoliths point here!" Jace Beleren
So... do all the cryptoliths literally point to there? Or does he mean figuratively? Is that the singular focus of all Nahiri's handiwork? Because if so, I'm *definitely* back in the Marit Lage / Sea-God camp again rather than Emrakul.
On a different note, I am exhausted from all this jumping from one side of the fence to the other and back!
Actually, if you ask me, it's the opposite. I don't think Nahiri was involved with the sealing of Marit Lage, but she definitely participated in the luring of the 3 Eldrazi Titans back then. I don't think she knows what she's summoning exactly (depending on whether she's aware that Emrakul left Zendikar), there's a possibility that she's just setting up the lure and doesn't really care what entity comes through.
Plot Twist: Marit Lage breaks from the Moon, the Sea God awakens and Emrakul moves to Innistrad at the same time (either that or Marit Lage awakens, Emrakul arrives and a third force breaks from the Moon), forming a new trio to replace the original three since Ulamog and Kozilek have bid farewell. Ugin would approve.
At this point of time, Ormendahl is likely to be just a side-story "big-bad" at best, considering he's probably in to fill the void that Griselbrand left behind.
Flavour text:
"This is it! All the cryptoliths point here!" Jace Beleren
So... do all the cryptoliths literally point to there? Or does he mean figuratively? Is that the singular focus of all Nahiri's handiwork? Because if so, I'm *definitely* back in the Marit Lage / Sea-God camp again rather than Emrakul.
On a different note, I am exhausted from all this jumping from one side of the fence to the other and back!
While I'm tired of theorizing without new information (I think literally every possibility of a returning character has been covered), I'm really excited to see what comes out. Sea God ahoy!
One note though: the land specifically allows you to return it to play, which makes me think whatever it summons will sacrifice lands.
Would you (Ashiok) be willing to put together a itemized list of evidence in favor of the sea god/Marit Lage over Emrakul?
If you would I would also put up a complimentary list of evidence that implies Emrakul (identifying ambiguous evidence along the way).
I know that at the top of this thread there is a running list of clues but it is erring on the unbiased side.
As these are arguably the two most likely theories, I would find a side by side comparison enlightening.
Edit: forgot to specify who
I've done that. I wrote a post in this thread especifically saying the strenghs of Emrakul's theory and the many weaknesses it has, and I also wrote multiple posts that would indicate why it is the Sea God.
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There hasn't been any real evidence for Marit Lage based on anything we have seen besides a cryptic mention from MaRo on his Tumblr suggesting that she could show up in the future.
The Nephalia Drownyard Temple will likely reveal the Gitrog Toad. Who we have seen from the Legendary Creatures section of Innistrad's story page on the mothership "In Nephalia, the lost and the mad turn their devotion to the inscrutable waters and to this massive horror that lurks in their lightless depths." Also, next week's Offical Magic Story has the following blurb "Miles from Stensia, in the Nephalian highlands, something crawls to the surface of dark Lake Zhava."
So we should get confirmation next Wednesday (the 23rd) one way or another. This leads me to believe that Marit Lage will not be making an appearance as I don't feel like they would reveal their big bad before exploring what Nahiri/Sorin/Tamiyo are up to in a featured story.
The Nephalian Horror that the cults are worshipping will just add to the craziness that is happening on Innistrad caused by a still unknown (likely Emrakul) source. Marit Lage would be a strange choice to introduce as she hasn't been around for over ten years (Dark Depths) and hasn't played a central part of the story ever. WOTC likes to foreshadow future events. If it were to be Marit Lage we would have gotten some blurbs about her and her history leading in but as a nonrelated way.
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http://necrogen-egregore.tumblr.com/post/140749383474/where-are-the-demons-lol
This source even refers to it as lattice corruption.
Given it's not an official source, that's no more definitive than anything we say here. And demons vary pretty wildly in their appearance.
This is supposed to be Lovecraftian, and that means dropping hints along the way but only a complete confirmation of the horrorible truth at the end.
There is quite a lot of circumstantial evidence (which is the kind of evidence I would expect) behind the Emrakul theory. Meanwhile, other theories continue be based primarily off the idea that the Emrakul evidence could be construed differently. But no other theory offers as a complete picture of what is going on.
IMO I think the opposition my many to the Emrakul theory comes more from an eldrazi burnout, rather than the actually likelihood of them being there. But I get it, BfZ was very heavy handed, and dissapointed a lot of people and they don't want to see another favorite plane handled poorly.
But it seems pretty clear that (assuming Emrakul is there) we will NOT be seeing eldrazi hordes on Innistrad.
What I'm really hoping for (I know this a long shot) is that Marit Lage is asleep in the ocean AND that Nahiri has trapped Emrakul inside the Moon. This plays more to Lovecraft's pantheon of gods.
Basically, I believe the opposite of what you said: people want to be the eldrazi, so they ignore contrary evidence, while there is much stronger evidence pointing towards another direction (the Sea God and, possibly, this God being Marit Lage).
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).
Not emrakul or vampires
Well,that was some epic level trolling from Wizards...:)
It seems that having funky legs is the curse of the Voldaren.:)
Anyway,it looks like only the Falkenrath are overcome by the berserker hunger,the other vampires look more composed and still noble/eloquent. Only Olivia is quite pissed. And I quite like the idea of monsters joining forces to save Innistrad from angels.
And heck yeah Sigarda! If that card does not scream "I will protect humans no matter what" then I do not know what.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
i've always wondered what Golgari vamps would be like. More neutral than your typical bloodsucker?
To me the idea of the twist is the strongest argument behind Marit Lage. To clarify my position, I would be pleasantlty surprised if it turned out to be Marit Lage, but right now I think there are a lot more hints at Emrakul than at Marit Lage.
It does seem like the sea god and whatever is in the Moon are different entities. Which is why I have my fingers crossed that it is both of them.
If you would I would also put up a complimentary list of evidence that implies Emrakul (identifying ambiguous evidence along the way).
I know that at the top of this thread there is a running list of clues but it is erring on the unbiased side.
As these are arguably the two most likely theories, I would find a side by side comparison enlightening.
Edit: forgot to specify who
First is that the big bad may well be the ancient sea-god that Runo Stromkirk worships.
The second part is then speculation as to whether that sea-god may turn out to be Marit Lage. There is probably a lot of evidence for the first part of that - the sea god - that on its own doesn't point to Marit Lage, but could be concluded to do so IF the second part can be shown to be likely. I rather suspect the second part is the more speculative / circumstantial bit.
"After the disappearance of Griselbrand, the Skirsdag cultists waited with impatience for another demon worthy of their devotion. Ormendahl did not make them wait too long."
Heh, I approximated it here as follows "After the disappearance of Griselbrand, the Skirsdag cultists impatiently awaited another demon worthy of their devotion. Ormendahl had not let them wait long."
And I have only a rudimentary knowledge of French, but the text is written in such a way that it is almost clear from the proper nouns by themselves.
What I find funny is that it is a Westwale Abbey in English, but Eastvale Valley in French. After "Avacyn, the scourge of fishermen", the second English to French translation fail in this set.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Flavour text:
"This is it! All the cryptoliths point here!" Jace Beleren
So... do all the cryptoliths literally point to there? Or does he mean figuratively? Is that the singular focus of all Nahiri's handiwork? Because if so, I'm *definitely* back in the Marit Lage / Sea-God camp again rather than Emrakul.
On a different note, I am exhausted from all this jumping from one side of the fence to the other and back!
Actually, if you ask me, it's the opposite. I don't think Nahiri was involved with the sealing of Marit Lage, but she definitely participated in the luring of the 3 Eldrazi Titans back then. I don't think she knows what she's summoning exactly (depending on whether she's aware that Emrakul left Zendikar), there's a possibility that she's just setting up the lure and doesn't really care what entity comes through.
Plot Twist: Marit Lage breaks from the Moon, the Sea God awakens and Emrakul moves to Innistrad at the same time (either that or Marit Lage awakens, Emrakul arrives and a third force breaks from the Moon), forming a new trio to replace the original three since Ulamog and Kozilek have bid farewell. Ugin would approve.At this point of time, Ormendahl is likely to be just a side-story "big-bad" at best, considering he's probably in to fill the void that Griselbrand left behind.
One note though: the land specifically allows you to return it to play, which makes me think whatever it summons will sacrifice lands.
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..... phyrexian portal.
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).
The Nephalia Drownyard Temple will likely reveal the Gitrog Toad. Who we have seen from the Legendary Creatures section of Innistrad's story page on the mothership "In Nephalia, the lost and the mad turn their devotion to the inscrutable waters and to this massive horror that lurks in their lightless depths." Also, next week's Offical Magic Story has the following blurb "Miles from Stensia, in the Nephalian highlands, something crawls to the surface of dark Lake Zhava."
So we should get confirmation next Wednesday (the 23rd) one way or another. This leads me to believe that Marit Lage will not be making an appearance as I don't feel like they would reveal their big bad before exploring what Nahiri/Sorin/Tamiyo are up to in a featured story.
The Nephalian Horror that the cults are worshipping will just add to the craziness that is happening on Innistrad caused by a still unknown (likely Emrakul) source. Marit Lage would be a strange choice to introduce as she hasn't been around for over ten years (Dark Depths) and hasn't played a central part of the story ever. WOTC likes to foreshadow future events. If it were to be Marit Lage we would have gotten some blurbs about her and her history leading in but as a nonrelated way.