I didn't realize there was a recton (or whatever) until today, as I had never previously looked into Nissa's background. Is there any official comment on the issue? I'm trying to wrap my head around what is/isn't canon at this point.
Unfortunately this is how things often works - many people are perfectly fine with tv showing violence of all sorts, but raise all hell when a single (female) nipple appears...
Unfortunately, too many people recite this, seemingly incapable of understanding a very simple, logical concept. The nipple is real. The violence is not. If you don't like people telling you what should/shouldn't offend you, don't tell them what should/shouldn't offend them.
Unfortunately, too many people recite this, seemingly incapable of understanding a very simple, logical concept. The nipple is real. The violence is not. If you don't like people telling you what should/shouldn't offend you, don't tell them what should/shouldn't offend them.
Fun fact time: Experiencing real violence can traumatize people, possibly for the rest of their life.
Experiencing a real nipple has never caused any mental damage to a person ever.
Whether one is real or not is also kind of irrelevant, considering the fact that nudity is also banned in animated/drawn media.
Unfortunately, too many people recite this, seemingly incapable of understanding a very simple, logical concept. The nipple is real. The violence is not. If you don't like people telling you what should/shouldn't offend you, don't tell them what should/shouldn't offend them.
And that makes the stance logical? Really?
Also, most of the people with such a stance I know show the same attitude towards animated shows and stuff like that - good luck proving violence in them is not real and a nipple is...
It's YOUR stance, two sides of the same ethnocentric coin (I was pointing out your hypocrisy, not agreeing with the "other" side). Galerion thinks killing innocents is strictly worse than racism. I don't think nipples vs. violence in cartoons has anything whatsoever to do with that. Are you mad at Wizards for censoring Nissa's cleavage and/or racism? Do you want her to stop being violent instead?
Unfortunately, too many people recite this, seemingly incapable of understanding a very simple, logical concept. The nipple is real. The violence is not. If you don't like people telling you what should/shouldn't offend you, don't tell them what should/shouldn't offend them.
Fun fact time: Experiencing real violence can traumatize people, possibly for the rest of their life.
Experiencing a real nipple has never caused any mental damage to a person ever.
Whether one is real or not is also kind of irrelevant, considering the fact that nudity is also banned in animated/drawn media.
Fun fact #1: We never discussed real violence.
Fun fact #2: A great many people have experienced mental damage from nipples. Whether they should or not is another argument, but that doesn't make you right (I live in Utah; I've seen it first hand, haha).
I did, because you said the censoring of nudity is justified, because it's real, ignoring the fact that the censorship of nudity is exactly the same for animated and drawn media.
Also, just because one thing is real and the other isn't, doesn't make the first thing offensive. Otherwise noses would be offensive, because actors have *gasp* noses in their face.
Fun fact #2: A great many people have experienced mental damage from nipples.
Citation needed. And no, some anecdotal "someone claimed they were traumatized by the nipple and had to calm down for ten-or-so minutes" does not count. I want something real, from a study with a scientific or medical background. The burden of proof is on you, so unless you can back up your claims, I am forced to assume you're just talking out of your posterior.
It's been done many a times in many a media. If the racism is at the fore of the character, the chunk of the character development is about changing the character's view on things. Last year they seemed to be going down that road with The Worldwaker, but this is a canon-breaking headscratcher. If we take this characterization as paramount, it makes the Worldwaker a pointless story, no?
As of Worldwaker, Nissa was shown to have moved past her racist tendencies and was trying to redeem herself.
The near annihilation of her plane humbled her, imagine that.
Being a character with a real flaw growing beyond that flaw was an inspiration, but now that's apparently going out the damn window.
Man, losing this arc really is a shame. The story of a character who outgrows her flaws is definitely more compelling than the type of story where the character was always heroic to begin with :/. This story could have been preserved if they simply didn't put her in Origins (but yeah, while I understand that they don't have very many green planeswalkers to choose from, I still think using Garruk could have worked).
I was actually trying to find this excerpt in the main site weeks ago, but couldn't for the life of me. Did you happen to find it tucked away in some dark corner of the website?
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Man, losing this arc really is a shame. The story of a character who outgrows her flaws is definitely more compelling than the type of story where the character was always heroic to begin with :/. This story could have been preserved if they simply didn't put her in Origins (but yeah, while I understand that they don't have very many green planeswalkers to choose from, I still think using Garruk could have worked).
I don't want to sound like a broken record, but they could have created a new character to fill that role.
I mean, in the end they kind of did create a new character, but at the same time rendered another character unusable.
By creating a totally new character they could have reserved Nissa for later.
With today's quiz, we can assume that also the whole Teeth of Akoum history is going to be disregarded in the future. Not that it would be much a loss. This Nissa would not behave like the Nissa in that novel, anyway. Bye, bye, supremacist idiot, welcome, animist savior.
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If only every story just threw out a character's traits at the drop of hat to have them be a tool of the plot instead of developing them into the role they need to fill. If only.
As of Worldwaker, Nissa was shown to have moved past her racist tendencies and was trying to redeem herself.
The near annihilation of her plane humbled her, imagine that.
Being a character with a real flaw growing beyond that flaw was an inspiration, but now that's apparently going out the damn window.
Welcome to the new normal in Western media, where the personal is so political that ideological purity trumps good character development and everything else. After all, Nissa growing out of her racial supremacist tendencies would have an implicit message that racists are actually people who can outgrow their beliefs instead of objects to be destroyed and discarded, and we simply can't have that kind of nuance in our media today.
I'm disappointed with Nissa losing her old Elf Supremacist past as well but for a slightly different reason. Mostly that I think people need to see someone actually struggle with a wrong headed idea from time to time. It's not that people need to see racists as just people. What could be useful is Nissa being an example of someone comes to see OTHER beings as people.
It would have been nice for Nissa to come to the realization through her rediscovered connection to the world that every being is connected with a goblin or Kor being no less important than an Elf. It could have been nice to see her face the reprecussions of her past actions and recognize the damage those supremacist beliefs caused. Further it would be nice to see her struggle with the dregs of that old philosophy on the margins to teach people that shedding beliefs like that is a constant practice.
Elves aren't the same species as other "creatures." I don't think it can be correctly called "racism." I don't like (Earth) cats. Am I racist? Sapience doesn't change that. It might be yucky (Planet of the Apes), but it's pretty far removed from any political issues here in our plane, right?
Elves aren't the same species as other "creatures." I don't think it can be correctly called "racism." I don't like (Earth) cats. Am I racist? Sapience doesn't change that. It might be yucky (Planet of the Apes), but it's pretty far removed from any political issues here in our plane, right?
Racism, Specism. Whatever. If we had other sapient species on earth it would definitely be a problem. We can't handle someone having an ancestry that promoted the expression of extra melanin due to geographical location. Elves might not be so much a problem as they often look almost exactly human but could you imagine if we had leonin, ainok, orcs, or goblins?
Racism, Specism. Whatever. If we had other sapient species on earth it would definitely be a problem. We can't handle someone having an ancestry that promoted the expression of extra melanin due to geographical location. Elves might not be so much a problem as they often look almost exactly human but could you imagine if we had leonin, ainok, orcs, or goblins?
I agree with you, but changing her story for counterfactual reasons is pretty silly. Comparing oranges with oranges though, remember how much backlash there was over Legolas hating (just) Dwarves, then overcame it (or is it Dwarfs in Middle Earth)? Who knows though, maybe they were trying to distance themselves from Tolkien? Again, I haven't seen any official response on the issue. I'm willing to talk about it here, but I don't really want to create a tumblr account to bug Doug about it. I don't know the pre-Realms story well enough to know what I'm talking about anyway. I wish someone else would though, haha.
I feel like they could have given more than one sentence for a question that not only involves literally the entirety of Nissa's character, but has serious ramifications for what is considered canon. Not to mention that it didn't really answer anything regarding the actual question.
I think the quote on Eyeblight Massacre would still fit with her "racist" original story. Just because you think your "race" should be the top does not mean that you believe in the senseless slaughter of all other races. In fact, Nissa had friends of other "races". I think people are not really getting that. She believes that elves should rule over all others, not that they can kill and slaughter like they want to.
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I think they redid her story because her old story gave no hint as to how her spark ignited. Also, I think they wanted the characters to be shown in a somewhat more positive light after their sparks ignited and Nissa was thrown out of her tribe and lived miserably in the jungle until another tribe took her in. That sounds pretty awful especially if you end with that. The "teeth" story would be a little different because she actually has been there, but the outcome seems even more justified. She is traveling with a vampire (which she hates for good reason), turns out the vampire lied to her and the eldrazi would have destroyed Zendikar from the inside anyway. (I believe I read this somewhere)Now, she has a link to Zendikar and knows that it is the titans causing Zendikar to wig out and it is literally in pain which has disastrous consequences for those on Zendikar.
Basically, I think the Zendikar series is supposed to teach us that we cannot sweep all our troubles under a rug and expect the rug to hide them forever. It may not feel good or possible to face your troubles, but you have to eventually whether by your doing or someone else's.
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Unfortunately, too many people recite this, seemingly incapable of understanding a very simple, logical concept. The nipple is real. The violence is not. If you don't like people telling you what should/shouldn't offend you, don't tell them what should/shouldn't offend them.
Fun fact time: Experiencing real violence can traumatize people, possibly for the rest of their life.
Experiencing a real nipple has never caused any mental damage to a person ever.
Whether one is real or not is also kind of irrelevant, considering the fact that nudity is also banned in animated/drawn media.
It's YOUR stance, two sides of the same ethnocentric coin (I was pointing out your hypocrisy, not agreeing with the "other" side). Galerion thinks killing innocents is strictly worse than racism. I don't think nipples vs. violence in cartoons has anything whatsoever to do with that. Are you mad at Wizards for censoring Nissa's cleavage and/or racism? Do you want her to stop being violent instead?
Fun fact #1: We never discussed real violence.
Fun fact #2: A great many people have experienced mental damage from nipples. Whether they should or not is another argument, but that doesn't make you right (I live in Utah; I've seen it first hand, haha).
I did, because you said the censoring of nudity is justified, because it's real, ignoring the fact that the censorship of nudity is exactly the same for animated and drawn media.
Also, just because one thing is real and the other isn't, doesn't make the first thing offensive. Otherwise noses would be offensive, because actors have *gasp* noses in their face.
Citation needed. And no, some anecdotal "someone claimed they were traumatized by the nipple and had to calm down for ten-or-so minutes" does not count. I want something real, from a study with a scientific or medical background. The burden of proof is on you, so unless you can back up your claims, I am forced to assume you're just talking out of your posterior.
Wow.
I too require a citation. This is relevant to my interests.
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It's been done many a times in many a media. If the racism is at the fore of the character, the chunk of the character development is about changing the character's view on things. Last year they seemed to be going down that road with The Worldwaker, but this is a canon-breaking headscratcher. If we take this characterization as paramount, it makes the Worldwaker a pointless story, no?
This is hilarious. Who would've ever thought they'd see that in a magic discussion?
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Man, losing this arc really is a shame. The story of a character who outgrows her flaws is definitely more compelling than the type of story where the character was always heroic to begin with :/. This story could have been preserved if they simply didn't put her in Origins (but yeah, while I understand that they don't have very many green planeswalkers to choose from, I still think using Garruk could have worked).
I was actually trying to find this excerpt in the main site weeks ago, but couldn't for the life of me. Did you happen to find it tucked away in some dark corner of the website?
http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/Multiverse/planeswalkers.aspx?x=mtg/multiverse/planeswalkers/nissa
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I don't want to sound like a broken record, but they could have created a new character to fill that role.
I mean, in the end they kind of did create a new character, but at the same time rendered another character unusable.
By creating a totally new character they could have reserved Nissa for later.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Oh wait. That would be pretty terrible. Yeah...
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Welcome to the new normal in Western media, where the personal is so political that ideological purity trumps good character development and everything else. After all, Nissa growing out of her racial supremacist tendencies would have an implicit message that racists are actually people who can outgrow their beliefs instead of objects to be destroyed and discarded, and we simply can't have that kind of nuance in our media today.
GW ~ Angels ~ WG
Modern:
RBW ~ Shadowmancer ~ WBR
Legacy:
BUG ~ Shadow Delver ~ GUB
It would have been nice for Nissa to come to the realization through her rediscovered connection to the world that every being is connected with a goblin or Kor being no less important than an Elf. It could have been nice to see her face the reprecussions of her past actions and recognize the damage those supremacist beliefs caused. Further it would be nice to see her struggle with the dregs of that old philosophy on the margins to teach people that shedding beliefs like that is a constant practice.
Racism, Specism. Whatever. If we had other sapient species on earth it would definitely be a problem. We can't handle someone having an ancestry that promoted the expression of extra melanin due to geographical location. Elves might not be so much a problem as they often look almost exactly human but could you imagine if we had leonin, ainok, orcs, or goblins?
Your mods are terrified of me.
If only there was more persistent questioners around.
Oh well, what can you do.
Your mods are terrified of me.
Thanks to XenoNinja at Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig.
Basically, I think the Zendikar series is supposed to teach us that we cannot sweep all our troubles under a rug and expect the rug to hide them forever. It may not feel good or possible to face your troubles, but you have to eventually whether by your doing or someone else's.
Thanks to XenoNinja at Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig.