You guys are forgetting that maybe letting Gideon live wasn't 100% Nixilis. Maybe that pesky mind mage had enough time to, you know do that thing that Ob was aggressively trying to prevent him from doing.
That'd also be a good explanation.
I imagine it'd also help with the complaints some have been making about Jace to find out that, just after getting his face broken, he managed to pull himself together and save Gideon.
You guys are forgetting that maybe letting Gideon live wasn't 100% Nixilis. Maybe that pesky mind mage had enough time to, you know do that thing that Ob was aggressively trying to prevent him from doing.
That'd also be a good explanation.
I imagine it'd also help with the complaints some have been making about Jace to find out that, just after getting his face broken, he managed to pull himself together and save Gideon.
Both are really good points! I would be on board with this interpretation.
Great story... The Ob section much stronger than the Nissa section, but loved the eyeblight callback.
What I found interesting was the off-camera conversation that Jace and Nissa had to destroy Ulamog (ignoring Ugin's advice)... I wonder if they'll come back to that?
I don't know if this has been discussed or not, but judging by the 2nd uncharted realms story Ob Nixilis seems to be able to control the Eldrazi. This is a new development on what we know about their origins. Could Ob Nixilis be more ancient than we know? I know he came to zendikar with lured by the lush and rich mana where Nahiri puts a Hedron in his forehead but it never gets explains how old he actually is. There may be more info on him in commander storyline but I'm unaware.
I don't know if this has been discussed or not, but judging by the 2nd uncharted realms story Ob Nixilis seems to be able to control the Eldrazi. This is a new development on what we know about their origins. Could Ob Nixilis be more ancient than we know? I know he came to zendikar with lured by the lush and rich mana where Nahiri puts a Hedron in his forehead but it never gets explains how old he actually is. There may be more info on him in commander storyline but I'm unaware.
He can exert his will over them but as he said it's walking a razors edge. If he pushes them to much against Kozileks will it will draw the titans notice, and likely his ire. I imagine it's something Jace or Liliana could do without to much effort but I imagine their motives would be very different and would probably get some negative reactions.
I don't know if this has been discussed or not, but judging by the 2nd uncharted realms story Ob Nixilis seems to be able to control the Eldrazi. This is a new development on what we know about their origins. Could Ob Nixilis be more ancient than we know? I know he came to zendikar with lured by the lush and rich mana where Nahiri puts a Hedron in his forehead but it never gets explains how old he actually is. There may be more info on him in commander storyline but I'm unaware.
That's how the Titan's were lured to Zendikar, Sorin's vampiric nature and Sangromancy resonated with their hunger. All Ob's doing to making Nissa look like a good snack.
I don't think he so much summoned him as poked the sleeping bear. Kozilek was hibernating/feeding underground and Ob basically sent a magical pulse to him like "hey you!" Which got the titan's attention and caused it to rise up. For all we know Koz might have risen even without Ob once Ula got into deeper danger
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
I don't think he so much summoned him as poked the sleeping bear. Kozilek was hibernating/feeding underground and Ob basically sent a magical pulse to him like "hey you!" Which got the titan's attention and caused it to rise up. For all we know Koz might have risen even without Ob once Ula got into deeper danger
From the whole spiel from, I think it was Nissa, about him weaving an ancient, powerful spell, I would imagine he did something very similar to what Sorin did to lure the Titans to Zendikar the first time around, but on a much smaller scale. Instead of luring it from god knows where in the multiverse to Zendikar, he just had to lure Kozilek up from whatever he was doing underground.
So less like a summoning spell and more like conjuring up some Eldrazi catnip.
If I could backtrack a bit to "The Rise of Kozilek"...
I know it is early and we still have quite a bit of cards in Oath of the Gatewatch to reveal, but I have noticed Kiora's absence. If this has already been discussed and I missed it, please ignore my post.
However, we have had no flavor text, card titles, or card art regarding Kiora. I know Kozilek defeated her, but "She hit the water, and blackness claimed her" is vague as far as whether or not she died (more vague than Elspeth's initial demise). I suspected she has been left open-ended for a return, but I have found her complete absence intriguing.
Since she was a focus in the previous set, it's strange to have her gone now. She does not strike me as someone who would join the Gatewatch, but her absence without any definitive death is jarring to me--especially between the two sets in the same block. Karn is absent, Venser is dead, Elspeth's fate was left hanging at the end of a block, and so forth. Kiora's defeat at the tentacles of Kozilek and subsequent removal from Gatewatch so far is strange to me.
Anyone have any thoughts?
Should this lead us to believe she is dead? Or at least no longer a player in the current block?
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Dominian Scholar of the Old Guard, specializing in pre-revisionist (Armada comics) and revisionist (Brothers' War through Apocalypse)history
I think Kiora's absence is because she isn't designed to be part of the Gatewatch story. Everything feels very disconnected and plot point checking. They're not letting us see a story as much as holding our hands and dragging us to it.
Current creative has been and still is abysmal at the whole "show don't tell" method of storytelling.
Anyone think that maybe Gideon's just dead and that the artworks of him we see are actually just illusions created by Jace?
Or maybe, just maybe, the Gideon the Ob fought was an illusion created by Jace? Then, when he finally realizes it's a fake, Ob flips him over to dispel the illusion.
I understanding the frustration with the lack of "show don't tell," but as one of the articles pointed out, they're not telling a chronological story. There is no guarantee that players will see card art, titles, or flavor text in a particular order. Of the art, titles, and text we have seen so far of Gatewatch, I think they manage to reveal a cohesive story. They are establishing characters and events, then leaving Uncharted Realms to flesh it out a bit. And, as we all have discussed here, they are still working on the details of that approach and form. But the established characters on WotC side are winning--we see characters mentioned in flavor text as legendary creatures, and we see them in card art and they appear I Uncharted Realms. This is closer to Weatherlight Saga storytelling, without a full novel per set (and we now only have two sets per block rather than three). I am confident in the direction WotC is going, but they are still on their learning curve.
As far as "Retaliation" goes, I would be happy with either Jace manipulating Ob into thinking Gideon was dead or with Gideon being an illusion (but can Jace create one--and also influence Ob--into making illusory-Gideon solid enough to drown)? Either way, I do not doubt that Gideon is alive and well (or will be next we see him).
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Dominian Scholar of the Old Guard, specializing in pre-revisionist (Armada comics) and revisionist (Brothers' War through Apocalypse)history
If I could backtrack a bit to "The Rise of Kozilek"...
I know it is early and we still have quite a bit of cards in Oath of the Gatewatch to reveal, but I have noticed Kiora's absence. If this has already been discussed and I missed it, please ignore my post.
However, we have had no flavor text, card titles, or card art regarding Kiora.
Well, it was true when you wrote that, but now we have Submerged Boneyard revealed. It is just generic flavor text, though.
I hope Nissa actually turns to the dark side (GB) but I doubt it.
Nissa needs to change, but I'm not sure we need our second mono-Green 'Walker going black in as many years.
Assuming Nissa does leave mono-green, I'm getting the feeling that Red may be her second colour. With Xenagos gone, that slot is available, whereas the GB and GU planeswalker slots are taken. (And I just don't see her going GW after all this).
She has been channelling a lot of Zendikar through all this, and we already know Omnath has gone RG; it could be that when (assuming when) he shows up, Nissa will probably be around and one could affect the other's colour flavour. Overall she seems to be channeling a lot of red power lately.
Submerged Boneyard doesn't prove anything either way, FYI. Journey into Nyx had a ton of Elspeth quotes. Sets aren't always strictly linear (for instance, Tuktuk the Explorer represented something that happened well before the main Zendikar story) and even if a walker dies in a set, they're still referenced. Venser had his own artwork and flavor text in New Phyrexia, too (Dispatch).
Ah right, I forgot all about him. (And I even play him in one of my Commander decks).
I still don't see her going GW, so more likely they'll try to keep her mono-green. Otherwise they'll double up with another GB or GR planeswalker. Or she just gets shuffled off to the side and forgotten once we leave Zendikar.
There's no reason we can't have multiple planeswalkers in a color pair. Currently all 10 two color pairs have a representative. If Nissa dips into a second color I hope it's black. Mostly so I don't have to watch all the outrage about the retcons. However she probably won't stray into a second color. The origins 5 are intended to be the star reps of their colors.
Cute story.
Can't wait to see what kind of oath will Ob make and how it will come to that
What?
An enchantment cycle that is missing one of the five colors? C'mon, be serious.
You realized Maro just confirmed this, right?
And I can't see Nissa going multicolor, as it would leave us with zero monocolor green 'walkers. They've been leaning so hard on Nissa as-is because they don't have anyone else.
From MaRo's article today: "The cycle, by the way, is actually not a full cycle, as there are only four colors represented. There was no black-aligned planeswalker interested in joining the Gatewatch. (Ob Nixilis being the only candidate on Zendikar, and he's not really a team player.)"
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I primarily play limited, so most of my spoiler season comments view cards through that lens.
I imagine it'd also help with the complaints some have been making about Jace to find out that, just after getting his face broken, he managed to pull himself together and save Gideon.
Both are really good points! I would be on board with this interpretation.
What I found interesting was the off-camera conversation that Jace and Nissa had to destroy Ulamog (ignoring Ugin's advice)... I wonder if they'll come back to that?
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
He can exert his will over them but as he said it's walking a razors edge. If he pushes them to much against Kozileks will it will draw the titans notice, and likely his ire. I imagine it's something Jace or Liliana could do without to much effort but I imagine their motives would be very different and would probably get some negative reactions.
That's how the Titan's were lured to Zendikar, Sorin's vampiric nature and Sangromancy resonated with their hunger. All Ob's doing to making Nissa look like a good snack.
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
From the whole spiel from, I think it was Nissa, about him weaving an ancient, powerful spell, I would imagine he did something very similar to what Sorin did to lure the Titans to Zendikar the first time around, but on a much smaller scale. Instead of luring it from god knows where in the multiverse to Zendikar, he just had to lure Kozilek up from whatever he was doing underground.
So less like a summoning spell and more like conjuring up some Eldrazi catnip.
I know it is early and we still have quite a bit of cards in Oath of the Gatewatch to reveal, but I have noticed Kiora's absence. If this has already been discussed and I missed it, please ignore my post.
However, we have had no flavor text, card titles, or card art regarding Kiora. I know Kozilek defeated her, but "She hit the water, and blackness claimed her" is vague as far as whether or not she died (more vague than Elspeth's initial demise). I suspected she has been left open-ended for a return, but I have found her complete absence intriguing.
Since she was a focus in the previous set, it's strange to have her gone now. She does not strike me as someone who would join the Gatewatch, but her absence without any definitive death is jarring to me--especially between the two sets in the same block. Karn is absent, Venser is dead, Elspeth's fate was left hanging at the end of a block, and so forth. Kiora's defeat at the tentacles of Kozilek and subsequent removal from Gatewatch so far is strange to me.
Anyone have any thoughts?
Should this lead us to believe she is dead? Or at least no longer a player in the current block?
Current creative has been and still is abysmal at the whole "show don't tell" method of storytelling.
Or maybe, just maybe, the Gideon the Ob fought was an illusion created by Jace? Then, when he finally realizes it's a fake, Ob flips him over to dispel the illusion.
I understanding the frustration with the lack of "show don't tell," but as one of the articles pointed out, they're not telling a chronological story. There is no guarantee that players will see card art, titles, or flavor text in a particular order. Of the art, titles, and text we have seen so far of Gatewatch, I think they manage to reveal a cohesive story. They are establishing characters and events, then leaving Uncharted Realms to flesh it out a bit. And, as we all have discussed here, they are still working on the details of that approach and form. But the established characters on WotC side are winning--we see characters mentioned in flavor text as legendary creatures, and we see them in card art and they appear I Uncharted Realms. This is closer to Weatherlight Saga storytelling, without a full novel per set (and we now only have two sets per block rather than three). I am confident in the direction WotC is going, but they are still on their learning curve.
As far as "Retaliation" goes, I would be happy with either Jace manipulating Ob into thinking Gideon was dead or with Gideon being an illusion (but can Jace create one--and also influence Ob--into making illusory-Gideon solid enough to drown)? Either way, I do not doubt that Gideon is alive and well (or will be next we see him).
Well, it was true when you wrote that, but now we have Submerged Boneyard revealed. It is just generic flavor text, though.
Assuming Nissa does leave mono-green, I'm getting the feeling that Red may be her second colour. With Xenagos gone, that slot is available, whereas the GB and GU planeswalker slots are taken. (And I just don't see her going GW after all this).
She has been channelling a lot of Zendikar through all this, and we already know Omnath has gone RG; it could be that when (assuming when) he shows up, Nissa will probably be around and one could affect the other's colour flavour. Overall she seems to be channeling a lot of red power lately.
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Ah right, I forgot all about him. (And I even play him in one of my Commander decks).
I still don't see her going GW, so more likely they'll try to keep her mono-green. Otherwise they'll double up with another GB or GR planeswalker. Or she just gets shuffled off to the side and forgotten once we leave Zendikar.
You realized Maro just confirmed this, right?
And I can't see Nissa going multicolor, as it would leave us with zero monocolor green 'walkers. They've been leaning so hard on Nissa as-is because they don't have anyone else.
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