This is the official thread for discussion of Uncharted Realms, Wizards of the Coast's point of delivery for the current Magic storyline. Uncharted Realms updates on Wednesdays.
While not everyone will have the same opinions on the stories each week, please keep the discussion positive. The Forum Rules still apply in this thread. If you disagree with someone's opinion, do not flame them.
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Man, there was not a single likeable character in this entire story...
Are we getting cards for both the Raven Man and Kothophed? Maro said we wouldn't be getting a legendary creature for each plane, so I assumed it would only be one legendary creature per colour (plus the planeswalkers).
And is Kothophed from a different plane than the 10 ones we know of?
The initial framing of Liliana was rather awful. She seemed way too easily pushed by the Raven Man to confront the witches. Like she was sitting on enough power to defeat these aged witches, yet had never really used it only having learned it from books?
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One of these day I have to get myself organizized.
These stories come across as a little rushed. I think the web comics accomplished a lot even being brief, it'd be nice to have seen these stories split up rather than trying to cover a whole narrative arc at once.
Man, there was not a single likeable character in this entire story...
Are we getting cards for both the Raven Man and Kothophed? Maro said we wouldn't be getting a legendary creature for each plane, so I assumed it would only be one legendary creature per colour (plus the planeswalkers).
And is Kothophed from a different plane than the 10 ones we know of?
The Raven Man's art looks more designed for a magic card than Kothophed's. The demon would be a challenge to frame. So I'm assuming just the Raven Man, since he was Liliana's 'mentor' in this story. And also he looks awesome. Besides, Kothophed is already on the alternate art for Demonic Tutor.
Kothophed is from Shandalar, I believe, although there is no confirmation I would assume that's how he knew about the Chain Veil.
Kind of deviates from the web comic (the Raven Man had just given the gold potion to Liliana, rather than her creating it herself after defeating the witches, but whatev's). Liliana's banter was also way better in the comic, but considering the comic was written by Jenna, so what else could you expect?
I was kinda hoping that they would explain how she survived the mending. It seems like the mending was like one of those old black kill spells that would read non-black.
I find Liliana's story very interesting conceptually, but this article in particular, perhaps because of how much ground there was to cover, felt like reading bullet points on a rushed powerpoint presentation about Liliana's story. IDK, I couldn't really get into it. I will say though I was hoping she'd just revive the Esis root and listen to Lady Ana, but of course she wouldn't have become Liliana as we know her without such mistakes. I see room for improvement on how this was delivered though. I loved the Demonic Tutor reference and there were some great points to this writing nontheless, but it was more about being little windows into her origin story rather than a fleshed out piece with stronger characterization and focus.
Yeah, this was a bit dark, featuring a whole buncha DBs, but what would you expect from a story starring a black-aligned deathmage who herself is an a-hole? It crystalizes her motivations a bit more and gives her a bit more depth. And I think there's still a part of her that wants to save her brother (BTW, what exactly has HE been up to lately? possible topic for another story, perhaps?)
My only real gripe is that her first post PW confrontation with Raven Man happened off-camera. I want to see it. what did they have to say to each other in light of everything she had been through, and what exactly did she do to him if she didn't kill him or turn him into a zombie? maybe one of our fanfic gurus in our group can shed some light on the matter? (I'm looking at you, Zazdor).
I generally share everyone's criticisms of this UR, but I do actually appreciate the retcon about the source of the potion that transformed Josu. Liliana accepting the Raven Man's potion always made less narrative sense to me than the transformation occurring because of Liliana's necromantic powers activating (although I always envisioned it happening as an accident when she tried to heal him).
Regarding the Raven Man - the vagueness about him reaffirms to me that this is a mystery that they don't want to get into yet. All we know now is that he isn't Bolas or one of Bolas' agents. Is there anyone in the lore that could be masquerading as the Raven Man? (My crazy theory has always been that he is Lim-Dul, but there doesn't seem to be any way to make that actually work with the facts. Or even crazier and obviously more impossible, he's Tzeentch from the Warhammer franchise. Raven motif, master manipulator...)
Not much of Dominaria, no idea where this is located. Wouldn't have guessed if they hadn't told it.
I also noticed that, but there are huge swaths (entire continents, I believe) of Dominaria we've never seen or have only seen briefly. For all we know, Liliana lived in Tamingazin, Corondor or even Caliman.
So, Kothophed is the black legendary I guess. Raven Man could make sense if he wasn't a walker, but it would be kinda odd to have a planeswalker get a legendary card (after he has already ascended). I had thought it might be Lady Ana, but the story would have probably shown her art if she was it. Kothophed would have to be an expensive, Griselbrand-level demon (6cmc at the least).
I liked the change from The Raven's Eye that she made the "enhanced" esis root herself instead of just receiving it from the Raven Man. Also interesting how powerful the resurrected Josu was.
My crazy theory has always been that he is Lim-Dul, but there doesn't seem to be any way to make that actually work with the facts.
I have a feeling he's going to be either Leshrac or Lim-Dul. They've been mentioning that era a lot recently. M15's Sliver Story mentioned Lesh (which was they hinted at being named for Leshrac). Chandra's story references Jaya's through the monastery. Lim-Dul operated on both planes simultaneously through his essence being split. I can easily see a minor retcon saying some of him survived and it took a long time to revive, or some sort of rift nonsense bringing him forward in time.
Further, the beginning of the story with Raven Man takes place an unknown period of time before the Mending. She's shown as an old woman making deals 100+ years after her spark ignites, and it's implied that it's not much more than 100 (which is odd, because didn't Mirrodin establish that the Mending was only like 20ish years ago? How would she get so old in 20 years? There are so many easier ways to maintain her youth, I'm not sure how as an old walker she didn't know any of them.).
Side note: The Raven Man also looks almost exactly like Urza, down to the big golden circles on his outfit. I'm NOT advocating that it's evil Urza somehow, just a funny design choice. Also included Lim-Dul for reference. All three sport the 'Dominaria Goatee'. So, honestly, while we may want it to be Lim-Dul, it's still just speculation.
Side Note 2: I really like the Raven Man's art. I hope he's the black legend.
Interesting tidbit that Lilliana studied on Innistrad. I wonder why she found the idea of Innistradi Vampirism distasteful enough to forgo it as it seems the ideal solution. The blood necessity seems the be the only reason for that kind of decision but I can't imagine it'd be more odious than the demon issue. I guess maybe because the vampirism would have kept her at her old age AND wouldn't have given her her powers back.
I'm not sure if Bolas being the "middledragon" for Liliana's pacts increases or decreases the chances of one of her Demons being from Kamigawa. While Bolas does have connections to the plane, the extent of it is unknown and he probably doesn't like the plane at all for rather obvious reasons.
The way the images line up, I'm inclined to believe that Kothophed will be the black legend. Part of me wants all of Liliana's pact demons to be absurd card-wise (like Griselbrand) but since the legend cycle is rare, that's probably not going to happen.
The story was alright. I'm not the biggest fan of Lili though.
Kothophed's grandstanding here makes him seem like even more of a fool for leading Liliana to the Chain Veil.
I like the substance of this story but like most others it seems I'm not in love with its presentation. I do hope we get to see an older Liliana in some Origins art, though. I was disappointed not to see any shown in the story.
Side note: The Raven Man also looks almost exactly like Urza, down to the big golden circles on his outfit. I'm NOT advocating that it's evil Urza somehow, just a funny design choice. Also included Lim-Dul for reference. All three sport the 'Dominaria Goatee'. So, honestly, while we may want it to be Lim-Dul, it's still just speculation.
Most probably some traditional Dominarian mage/noble/scholar attire.
For the rest, as someone who didn't read the comics, I enjoyed the story. I learned a lot in one story.
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While not everyone will have the same opinions on the stories each week, please keep the discussion positive. The Forum Rules still apply in this thread. If you disagree with someone's opinion, do not flame them.
Remember this rule of thumb: it's fine to attack an idea, but don't attack the person who had it.
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THE RAVEN MAN!!!!
Are we getting cards for both the Raven Man and Kothophed? Maro said we wouldn't be getting a legendary creature for each plane, so I assumed it would only be one legendary creature per colour (plus the planeswalkers).
And is Kothophed from a different plane than the 10 ones we know of?
The Raven Man's art looks more designed for a magic card than Kothophed's. The demon would be a challenge to frame. So I'm assuming just the Raven Man, since he was Liliana's 'mentor' in this story. And also he looks awesome. Besides, Kothophed is already on the alternate art for Demonic Tutor.
Kothophed is from Shandalar, I believe, although there is no confirmation I would assume that's how he knew about the Chain Veil.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
My only real gripe is that her first post PW confrontation with Raven Man happened off-camera. I want to see it. what did they have to say to each other in light of everything she had been through, and what exactly did she do to him if she didn't kill him or turn him into a zombie? maybe one of our fanfic gurus in our group can shed some light on the matter? (I'm looking at you, Zazdor).
Click the pic for more info.
Regarding the Raven Man - the vagueness about him reaffirms to me that this is a mystery that they don't want to get into yet. All we know now is that he isn't Bolas or one of Bolas' agents. Is there anyone in the lore that could be masquerading as the Raven Man? (My crazy theory has always been that he is Lim-Dul, but there doesn't seem to be any way to make that actually work with the facts. Or even crazier and obviously more impossible, he's Tzeentch from the Warhammer franchise. Raven motif, master manipulator...)
The confrontation was after Liliana had the Chain Veil, so it was long after she made the pact with Kothophed. You can look at all of the web comics here: http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/multiverse/planeswalkers.aspx?x=mtg/multiverse/webcomics/main
I think that Lili's confrontation with the Raven Man occurred in the third chapter of "The Raven's Eye"
I also noticed that, but there are huge swaths (entire continents, I believe) of Dominaria we've never seen or have only seen briefly. For all we know, Liliana lived in Tamingazin, Corondor or even Caliman.
I liked the change from The Raven's Eye that she made the "enhanced" esis root herself instead of just receiving it from the Raven Man. Also interesting how powerful the resurrected Josu was.
Further, the beginning of the story with Raven Man takes place an unknown period of time before the Mending. She's shown as an old woman making deals 100+ years after her spark ignites, and it's implied that it's not much more than 100 (which is odd, because didn't Mirrodin establish that the Mending was only like 20ish years ago? How would she get so old in 20 years? There are so many easier ways to maintain her youth, I'm not sure how as an old walker she didn't know any of them.).
Side note: The Raven Man also looks almost exactly like Urza, down to the big golden circles on his outfit. I'm NOT advocating that it's evil Urza somehow, just a funny design choice. Also included Lim-Dul for reference. All three sport the 'Dominaria Goatee'. So, honestly, while we may want it to be Lim-Dul, it's still just speculation.
Side Note 2: I really like the Raven Man's art. I hope he's the black legend.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
The story was alright. I'm not the biggest fan of Lili though.
"Kiora is the Aquaman of planeswalkers."
"Useless and everyone pretends to like her?"
I like the substance of this story but like most others it seems I'm not in love with its presentation. I do hope we get to see an older Liliana in some Origins art, though. I was disappointed not to see any shown in the story.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
Most probably some traditional Dominarian mage/noble/scholar attire.
For the rest, as someone who didn't read the comics, I enjoyed the story. I learned a lot in one story.