I understand that this was a Gideon story, but could they have made Jace seem just a bit more useless in battle? Seriously, next time why don't they tell a story where he wets his pants when the Eldrazi show up and then spends the rest of the story mind wiping everybody to make them forget that he had an accident.
To be fair the Eldrazi are a bad match up for Jace. The drones are just organs, they don't have minds he can affect (as far as we know) and if he tried to affect Ulamog he'd probably go mad. His illusions won't work against the eldrazi either most likely for the same reasons. All he's got left is some telekinesis which is not his forte and the sword Gideon gave him (lol).
I don't expect Jace to be anywhere near the equal of a White or Red Planeswalker in battle. However, his Illusions can kill and maim (see his last encounter with Garruk). He can at least "Unsummon" creatures. Yeah, Telekinesis isn't his primary strength but please don't present him as some physically inept bookworm that is only valuable in intellectual pursuits.
I could not possibly disagree more with this than I do. While I can come up with plenty of examples of boring highly moral characters, that's about a failure of imagination on the part of their writers. For morally ambiguous protagonists, there's a conflict of "Will they do the right thing?" For a morally dedicated character, that ceases to be an interesting question, but they allow you to tell stories where the conflict is "What is the right thing?" Sure, some writers instead throw up their hands and say, "Whoops, no internal conflict," but those are bad writers and not necessarily bad characters.
Besides, morally ambiguous heroes are so popular right now that a character like Captain America is practically subversive.
No it's not. Whatever their very clear and unambiguous moral compass says is right is right. Which is the problem. Captain America would have been directly complicit in Ultron's extinction plot had it not been for Nick "Deus Ex Machina" Fury showing up at the last second. Why? Because Stark presented an option, the only option, that would have saved the planet but sacrificed the lives of the people on the chunk of floating land. In spite of what the clearly correct choice was Captain America was going to make the wrong one because his morals wouldn't allow him to do otherwise. It's not about "Will s/he do the right thing?" Or "What is the right thing" It's about "What will their moral system allow?" and that's always quickly laid out in any lore so that you can know where a character will stand and makes for boring characters and stories because the outcome will always be predictable. If you don't allow a character's views and stances to be challengable then that character cannot grow. Gideon isn't quite as bad as Cap since a certain foxy pyromancer managed to wiggle a little of Gideon's old rebellious side lose from his duty-bound, Order of Heliud instilled, utterly revolting goody-two-shoes-ness.
I think, in regards to Jace combat, it's important to note the circumstances surrounding his decent fights: coming off of thinking himself as Kalist (and all the memories thereof), and having a group of Gruul warriors around him to draw battle ideas from. It isn't that Jace is always useless in a fight, it's that it's not something he regularly trains, and whatever he has, he loses quickly.
As for the "looking at a sword like a snake" I pictured that more as "You didn't tell me we were going to be fighting, you said there was a puzzle, and I'm here to solve it, what the hell are you giving me this for." Albeit, with a lot fewer words.
And in regards to "unsommoning" that is, I think in gameplay terms, more about severing the magical connection that keeps something on a plane. Which doesn't work when the thing in question is "from" that plane. There's nowhere to send it back too. That's the zone of exile.
Uahh, Gideon stories are getting boring already. If everytime he shows up all I will read is how he sliced a bunch of eldrazi and moved along he will become the most uninteresting character very quickly. He has more potential than that, it is cool that he is a warrior, but that doesn't mean he has to do all the same things again and again.
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Would you like to read Commander stories? Check my latest stories, coming from Lorwyn and Innistrad: Ghoulcaller Gisa and Doran, The Siege Tower! If you like my writing, ask me to write something for your commander as well!
No, not really. Gideon actually has pragmatism. Cap was willing to let all of humanity get wiped out because he couldn't put his big boy pants on and do what he needed to do. Gideon, on the other hand, understands that his actions on Zendikar, while noble, won't win the day. Captain America would stay on Zendikar and fight a losing battle until he and everyone else died, while Gideon was willing to go out and seek help even though he knew many lives would be lost in his absence. Gideon is more like Man of Steel Superman, which is still very white. Saving the many > saving the few.
About Jace's effectiveness in battle: it might be telling about the consistency of current stories that I wouldn't even bother being disappointed, because minor details in characterization live shorter than chocolate in my room. He was quite good swordfighter in Agents of Artifice - worst of neowalkers in battle according to mr. Beyer's blog - passable in Secretist (...written by the same Doug Beyer in almost the same time as blog entry) - now looking at sword as if it were a snake; who knows what will be there tomorrow.
If it were up to me, I would, to give Jace something to do in story, have him figuring out that they can move survivors onto the flying hedrons, since he is (...was?) able to fly himself and might be more used to thinking in three dimensions. Still wouldn't be outraged while the level of pathetic wouldn't reach Test of Metal.
He was mediocre in AoA and the only reason he was able to put up a fight with Ruric-Thar in the Secretist was because he was reading the minds of all the other Gruul there around him and doing what they would do. In straight combat Jace is definitely the worst of the bunch.
<snip>
He had some training in AoA with Kallist, and during the last fight his opponent commented he got better at it. As for Ruric Thar, I went under assumption that in order to copy what gruul would do in one's place one must know at least how those movements are performed.
Thar said, in a pure nonmagical duel my bet on the worst performer would be on Liliana. Doubt she had any exercise in nonmagical fight in last hundred years or so.
A lot of these are the same like last year's. I didn't find this interesting.
I did, however, find it amusing that after 6 years of study Tamiyo has finally made progress with her moon research.
No, not really. Gideon actually has pragmatism. Cap was willing to let all of humanity get wiped out because he couldn't put his big boy pants on and do what he needed to do. Gideon, on the other hand, understands that his actions on Zendikar, while noble, won't win the day. Captain America would stay on Zendikar and fight a losing battle until he and everyone else died, while Gideon was willing to go out and seek help even though he knew many lives would be lost in his absence. Gideon is more like Man of Steel Superman, which is still very white. Saving the many > saving the few.
It's unfair to compare anyone to Superman in any incarnation. Superman is intended to be a God. His "moral challenges" are on a completely different level from that of a human. Captain America and Gideon are humans who can't get over their own moral superiority. If Gideon had any form of pragmatism he would have left those who are too wounded to move on their own to die. It's what they essentially are and by carrying them onward they're risking others dying. But he didn't. He let injured men and women carry them into the hedron fields. This is the apocalypse. You can't afford any of that sentimental crap. Save who you can and leave those you can't and more importantly understand who you can and who you can't save. Gideon does honestly think his actions will win the day. He sees himself, perhaps rightly so, as a symbol of hope to the Zendikari. The thing is it seems as though when he left he didn't think things would go as badly as they did. His thoughts in this story seem to show that he thought they would be able to hold out until he returned. Yes he understood that he was more delayed than he hoped but we're talking about the Eldrazi. A small camp of humans is nothing to wipe out in a day. He's typical white. Going to find Jace has been the most flexibility and adaptability he has shown outside of his sural AND HE BLOODY REGRETS IT! He's more concerned with saving a few lives here and now than finding a long term solution to save the entire plane. The lives of individual Zendikari will come and go regardless of the Eldrazi but as long as Zendikar stands there will be a place for there to be Zendikari period. It's not about what's right it's about what he thinks is right.
He's more concerned with saving a few lives here and now than finding a long term solution to save the entire plane. The lives of individual Zendikari will come and go regardless of the Eldrazi but as long as Zendikar stands there will be a place for there to be Zendikari period. It's not about what's right it's about what he thinks is right.
To be fair, more than any of the other main walkers we follow around now, Gideon is a warrior, first and foremost. He's not "dumb" but figuring out long term solutions when there is danger right in front of him doesn't seem like the path a warrior who has always been able to solve problems with with his fists and his invulnerability wouldn't follow in the first place (well... except that one time. You know). It was why he needed to go out and search for others like Jace, ones who could do more than fight on the front lines. I feel like Gideon is well aware it's a losing battle, especially after this UR, and he knows just fighting to save the camps of resistance isn't enough because of this, if that's the issue-- his not recognizing that what he's doing isn't enough. I think he only does that mostly because that's just what he has to offer more than anything else, his skill in combat magic(which again just fighting Eldrazi won't be enough to save Zendikar). He regrets leaving to actually find this help, but he did it regardless. We all sometimes regret doing something at the time even if we know in the long run it's for the best, I think. I also think it's fine to have characters like this as part of team, since it allows us to see the conflict between people who few things through a more logical lense, like Jace in this story.
I actually enjoyed this story a lot myself though. Reception seems to have been lukewarm at best otherwise. There was no scene as awesome as the one where he slingshot an eldrazi over Sea Gate, though. The big thing that bothered me was as has been said, Jace's total incompetence (well, mayeb not incompetence is the right word for how he was portrayed in general here), not just at fighting but in the story as whole, since it felt like him and Gideon were on totally different wavelengths. Which I suppose is fair and to be expected. Jace is mono blue first and foremost and same for Gideon, so I guess it's natural that they would view things through totally different lenses. I do hope they give Jace a role he can be more competent at in a future story until they find Jori En so he can solve the puzzle of leylines, rather than front lines battle like he was awkwardly thrown into here, or at least do something other than get thrown a sword and thrown up in the air and throw some guys around(I guess that was Telepath Unbound's +2 in action!).
I didn't even notice the redundancy of Gideon's sural swinging back and forth myself, it being pointed out also sort of dampened things a bit for me I guess.
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They didn't care that he was the savior of Fort Keff, the great hunter of Ondu, the champion of Kabira. To them, he was just another piece of flesh, a thing with life to be drained away.
I really Like Gideon. I really like Captain America. Are they everyone's cup of tea? No, but that's why we have lots of Planeswalkers and lots of Avengers. I find it comforting that such characters care about the one, the individual.Yes, white often must care about the community as a whole and are not always interested in lone opinions/voices, they are however interested in peace and that means no one gets to pick on the little guy.
I am comforted by characters who, while the world is falling apart, takes the time to rescue the one. Kinda like the parable of the lost sheep in the Christian tradition. I understand that not everyone feels this way but I feel like this, my opinion is needed here as sometimes these traditional guys like Gideon and Cap'n get picked on a lot in the contemporary age. I want it understood that there is a substantive number of people do understand and love such heroes. If others prefer Iron Man, or Jace, Or Lili that's fine but there are sane peeps who like the Gideons and Cap'ns even if they sometimes appear cliche.
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Wizards. listen. The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
In the end, Kiora escaped the fight without forming a bond with the kraken of Arixmethes
She had one job.
Welp. Looks like I'll be waiting for Return to Theros on this one. Great. I had hoped the Bident would allow Kiora to cast him on Zendikar anyway, but nope.
I agree Dack, Elspeth, Ajani and Ashiok are probably going to be the main cast of Return to Theros, with Dack descending into the underworld playing a major part. I wonder how his Gauntlet will play into that, too. I don't know if I really care to see Ashiok as the main villain there... On another plane perhaps, but Theros has had enough planeswalkers meddling around between Xenagos, Elspeth and Ajani killing him, Dack stealing the gauntlet half, Kiora stealing Thassa's Bident, and Ashiok messing with dreams and obliterating Iretis (which was lame and weird. No other gods minded this?)
Love the little Tamiyo update lol
I love how Jace is developing telekinetic powers and appeared randomly in a moment of high stress. But I think it's silly that he'd be literally physically fightning the Eldrazi. Not only is it pointless to kill the drones while the titans are still around, but Jace is better suited solving the leyline mystery, and taking up the intellectual battle alongside Ugin. He should be studying and conjuring ways to defeat or re-seal the Eldrazi, or uncovering their purpose, or what have you, rather than brute forcing them with Gideon. Which is a bit awkward and a waste of his potential and of time. The PWs are sure to lose with that strategy. Scouring Zendikar of the drones is what one does after taking care of the titans who spawn them... And from the get-go the PWs seemed doomed anyway, even if Ulamog were their only foe.
It's unfair to compare anyone to Superman in any incarnation. Superman is intended to be a God. His "moral challenges" are on a completely different level from that of a human. Captain America and Gideon are humans who can't get over their own moral superiority. If Gideon had any form of pragmatism he would have left those who are too wounded to move on their own to die. It's what they essentially are and by carrying them onward they're risking others dying. But he didn't. He let injured men and women carry them into the hedron fields. This is the apocalypse. You can't afford any of that sentimental crap. Save who you can and leave those you can't and more importantly understand who you can and who you can't save. Gideon does honestly think his actions will win the day. He sees himself, perhaps rightly so, as a symbol of hope to the Zendikari. The thing is it seems as though when he left he didn't think things would go as badly as they did. His thoughts in this story seem to show that he thought they would be able to hold out until he returned. Yes he understood that he was more delayed than he hoped but we're talking about the Eldrazi. A small camp of humans is nothing to wipe out in a day. He's typical white. Going to find Jace has been the most flexibility and adaptability he has shown outside of his sural AND HE BLOODY REGRETS IT! He's more concerned with saving a few lives here and now than finding a long term solution to save the entire plane. The lives of individual Zendikari will come and go regardless of the Eldrazi but as long as Zendikar stands there will be a place for there to be Zendikari period. It's not about what's right it's about what he thinks is right.
Recall Gideon's first story under Creative instead of Resnick. He helped a fort fight off an Eldrazi army, but the second he saw Emrakul he realized everyone there was dead. He abandoned them right there to go and find planeswalker help on Ravnica. That's the whole reason he's there. He's been looking for allies and this is the first time he found any. He only recently found out the aloof Guildpact guy is actually a planeswalker, also.
Anyway, I never looked at the whole godhood aspect, and now that you've brought it up it makes even more sense. Gideon is more like Superman than Captain America because Gideon has had invulnerability since he was a child. He could do things others couldn't. A huge chunk of the character development he's gotten is "You're just one man, dude." He thought he could smite Erebos, that failed. He thought his presence on Zendikar could change things, but it hasn't. He thought he alone is capable of protecting the innocents on Ravnica, but he was wrong.
Pragmatism doesn't mean you have to be a jerk, it just means you're able to step back and look at the big picture. Gideon's shown that ability, unlike Captain America. I hate Captain America precisely for that. Man of Steel Superman snapped Zod's neck when it came between keeping him alive, or keeping everyone else alive; instead of focusing on saving every random person on the street that's gonna get a building dropped on them, he goes thousands of miles into the Indian Ocean to stop the World Engine because if he doesn't everyone is dead. That's who Gideon is.
Stop complaining about Gideon only fighting the Eldrazi. For God's sake! He's good at it, so he does it. He's trying to stop monstrosities from devouring a plane he swore to protect. It's his job.
Plus, he doesn't only fight the Eldrazi. He also fights crime on (Are you on or in planes?) Ravnica. And he does a good job at that too.
Another thing he did that wasn't fighting. He figured out his limits. Limits are White's biggest problem. He figured out that he needed help and that fighting wasn't going to stop the Eldrazi or the crime on (Again, on or in?) Ravnica. So he got another guy who wanted to protect as many as possible to help him. Then, that guy forced him to see a healer. Gideon later agrees that if he didn't see the healer, Zendikar would have been screwed in the mana-hole.
He does not only fight the Eldrazi; he just fights them a lot.
I understand that this was a Gideon story, but could they have made Jace seem just a bit more useless in battle? Seriously, next time why don't they tell a story where he wets his pants when the Eldrazi show up and then spends the rest of the story mind wiping everybody to make them forget that he had an accident.
You do raelize that again, this is in character for the color right? Jace is a blue mage and a planner but he needs TIME. The man planeswalked right into an aggro deck and didn't have the proper spell set up to answer the threats. Jace wasn't in the right mindset to fight. Now personally, I'd like him to go a bit Loki and go invisible and stabby stab the Eldrazi but this was a pretty pretty strong example of blue's weakness in combat. Jace is likely to fair better once he's studied a bit and has some specific counter measures in place.
In fairness, I feel like they're in a bit of a catch-22 with Jace, as far as the dedicated story fans are concerned. If they'd made him even a little competent at fighting Eldrazi, there'd be a different group of players saying, "Oh look, something else Jace is good at, god he's such a Mary Sue."
Stop complaining about Gideon only fighting the Eldrazi. For God's sake! He's good at it, so he does it. He's trying to stop monstrosities from devouring a plane he swore to protect. It's his job.
Plus, he doesn't only fight the Eldrazi. He also fights crime on (Are you on or in planes?) Ravnica. And he does a good job at that too.
Another thing he did that wasn't fighting. He figured out his limits. Limits are White's biggest problem. He figured out that he needed help and that fighting wasn't going to stop the Eldrazi or the crime on (Again, on or in?) Ravnica. So he got another guy who wanted to protect as many as possible to help him. Then, that guy forced him to see a healer. Gideon later agrees that if he didn't see the healer, Zendikar would have been screwed in the mana-hole.
He does not only fight the Eldrazi; he just fights them a lot.
Thank you. Geez. It's like people don't raelize the point of characters like Gideon AND Captain America isn't what they do themselves so much as the effect they have on others. That Avengers example thrown out above? That scene wasn't supposed to show you, "Cap is such an idiot he'd have let Ultron's plan succeed because he wasn't willing to do the logical thing to win because it chaffed his morality." It's supposed to show you how he helped change Nick Fury, who even though he wouldn't let the missle take out New York, has in the past been guilty of the exact same numbers gaming, acceptable losses, sacrifice one to save hundreds mentality. And while most of the time that's probably right, that scene is about how Cap encourages people to take a third option and be the best of who they are. That's what Gideon is for this group of Walkers. He's not necessarily the leader though it seems to be the role they're setting him up for. He's the heart.
As for the story itself I actually dug it a fair bit and I'm excited for more but if I can go back to the "For Zendikar" story for a bit this new version of Nissa's character makes me even more disappointed that they removed the elf supremacy aspect from her backstory because this would have been a great progression. To see her speciesism begin to fade as she realizes the connectivity of all things even those that aren't elves. It would have been great to see a character struggle with a wrong headed idea and eventually shake it off organically in the story rather than have it written out of existence. Basically for the sake of nuance have Nissa go from Green/Black in magic and characterization to just Green as kind of a Garruk foil. Heck, you could even have a great bit of flavor for why she ends up disdaining black magic (even though she'll likely still find beauty and respect for the swamps) as a bad reminder of who she used to be and the mistakes she made. The For Zendikar story was great butstuff like that always makes me yearn for what could have been even more awesome.
Correction: Gideon never swore to protect anything. He isn't doing this out of a sense of obligation, like Nissa. He's doing this out of altruism and because he tries to do the right thing.
It may seem like nitpicking, but it's a major part of Gideon. Ranks and rules aren't things he follows if it stops him from doing good. They also aren't things that push him to do what is right. This is also another way in which Gideon and Cap aren't alike: Cap does what he does because he's a soldier and obligated to. Gideon does what's right because it's what's right, like Superman.
I just wanted to chime in and say that I really loved the tongue-beetle spawn in that one image. Hopefully they'll also be on a token. I think the eldrazi design this time is even better than last time.
Unfortunately the eldrazi pictures were the most interesting part of the UR to me. The actual contents could be summed up as "Some camp has been destroyed. Gideon kills some eldrazi. Sural, sural, sural. Gideon and Jace help some survivors get to seagate using the hedrons. The end." It's telling that the catching up article contained more information than the story.
I just wanted to chime in and say that I really loved the tongue-beetle spawn in that one image. Hopefully they'll also be on a token. I think the eldrazi design this time is even better than last time.
Nothing has really changed design-wise. Literally every Eldrazi we've seen since comic con have been Ulamog spawn. Maybe you just like the bone masks more, since that's all that really distinguishes them from Emrakul's spawn, and they look nothing at all like Kozilek's.
I just wanted to chime in and say that I really loved the tongue-beetle spawn in that one image. Hopefully they'll also be on a token. I think the eldrazi design this time is even better than last time.
Nothing has really changed design-wise. Literally every Eldrazi we've seen since comic con have been Ulamog spawn. Maybe you just like the bone masks more, since that's all that really distinguishes them from Emrakul's spawn, and they look nothing at all like Kozilek's.
It seems there is a bit more variety within the Ulamog lineage. In ROE literally all of Ulamog's eldrazi were semi-humanoids with lots of tentacles and round bone heads. Now we get tongue-beetles, siamese chest-twins and probably a lot more cool stuff. I know the basic design didn't change, but they play a bit more with the lineage's features, which I really like. In ROE, Ulamog's brood was the least diverse of the three so it's great to see some variety beyond bone plates and tentacles.
Yeah, previously, Ulamog's spawn were just big faceless-helmet wearing beaters with multiple tentacles (see Pathrazer, Crusher, Spawnsire, etc). Even his spawn token just looked like a miniature version of him.
Anyhow, story's getting kind of old at this point. "Gideon fights some Eldrazi. Minor story advancement. Gideon fights some more Eldrazi, ponders about how he's not doing enough. Minor story advancement. Rinse and repeat." There had better be some actual plot to the BFZ storyline instead of just having some planeswalkers fighting the Eldrazi while others are figuring out how to reseal them. Maybe Ob Nixilis can actually make for a deeper secondary plot that leads into Liliana's story (i.e. his trying to get the Chain Veil back after regaining his spark?)
Anyhow, story's getting kind of old at this point. "Gideon fights some Eldrazi. Minor story advancement. Gideon fights some more Eldrazi, ponders about how he's not doing enough. Minor story advancement. Rinse and repeat." There had better be some actual plot to the BFZ storyline instead of just having some planeswalkers fighting the Eldrazi while others are figuring out how to reseal them. Maybe Ob Nixilis can actually make for a deeper secondary plot that leads into Liliana's story (i.e. his trying to get the Chain Veil back after regaining his spark?)
Yeah, this was straight up filler; hopefully we get something a bit more substantial after PAX.
Anyhow, story's getting kind of old at this point. "Gideon fights some Eldrazi. Minor story advancement. Gideon fights some more Eldrazi, ponders about how he's not doing enough. Minor story advancement. Rinse and repeat." There had better be some actual plot to the BFZ storyline instead of just having some planeswalkers fighting the Eldrazi while others are figuring out how to reseal them. Maybe Ob Nixilis can actually make for a deeper secondary plot that leads into Liliana's story (i.e. his trying to get the Chain Veil back after regaining his spark?)
Yeah, this was straight up filler; hopefully we get something a bit more substantial after PAX.
It wasn't just filler, it was boring filler.
You know what would have been better filler? Showing how some of the Zendikari hold out against the Eldrazi in Gideon's absence. There could have been multiple substories in the same UR, jumping across the plane showing us how it's the same everywhere and giving us a feel of just how ****ed everyone is. That would have been much more emotionally engaging than Gideon performing his sural whips and going "MUST WHIP MORE" for the Xth time.
You do raelize that again, this is in character for the color right? Jace is a blue mage and a planner but he needs TIME. The man planeswalked right into an aggro deck and didn't have the proper spell set up to answer the threats. Jace wasn't in the right mindset to fight. Now personally, I'd like him to go a bit Loki and go invisible and stabby stab the Eldrazi but this was a pretty pretty strong example of blue's weakness in combat. Jace is likely to fair better once he's studied a bit and has some specific counter measures in place.
In this premise Jace is pretty much dead any time he planeswalks alone into an unknown, hostile environment (there is an office building sexual harassment joke in there somewhere). Jace has prior knowledge of the Eldrazi and the situation on Zendikar. Blue mages are all about preparation and planned reactions. He should have had all the information he needed from conversations with Gideon (and I also refuse to believe he wouldn't probe Gideon's mind for any extra information with or without Gideon's permission). In this story it appears Jace thought he was planeswalking into the middle of some scholarly lecture rather than a plane at war on the brink of annihilation. Again, I don't expect a blue character to be a match for a white or red character when it comes to hand to hand combat, or even a green character's ferociousness and strength. I do take exception to portraying a character as experienced and supposedly powerful as Jace as helpless and paralyzed when combat is necessary without any warning.
I really Like Gideon. I really like Captain America. Are they everyone's cup of tea? No, but that's why we have lots of Planeswalkers and lots of Avengers. I find it comforting that such characters care about the one, the individual.Yes, white often must care about the community as a whole and are not always interested in lone opinions/voices, they are however interested in peace and that means no one gets to pick on the little guy.
I am comforted by characters who, while the world is falling apart, takes the time to rescue the one. Kinda like the parable of the lost sheep in the Christian tradition. I understand that not everyone feels this way but I feel like this, my opinion is needed here as sometimes these traditional guys like Gideon and Cap'n get picked on a lot in the contemporary age. I want it understood that there is a substantive number of people do understand and love such heroes. If others prefer Iron Man, or Jace, Or Lili that's fine but there are sane peeps who like the Gideons and Cap'ns even if they sometimes appear cliche.
I, too, am one of those people. I guess I'm really just posting to help show that your "substantive number of people" statement is not a lie. I'd say more, but most of what I would say has been covered.
I guess the correctness of statement "sane peeps who like Gideons" depends on your definition of sanity. Or I'm just twisted, that's also a possibility. Since for me hero stopping in the middle of planar catastrophe to rescue one person = hero dooming the unseen people who will die due to catastrophe not being terminated in time. Something like hero deciding "it's okay if more people will die as long as I won't personally see it". My biggest complaint will be to Gideon getting distracted by the events on Ravnica.
Edit: damn I'm tongue tied these days. Should've made more clear that under "events on Ravnica" I mean not "seeking Jace's, or any other planeswalker's, for that matter, help", which is reasonable thought, but "getting into goblin confrontation", which, as it was pointed out in all those stories, led to him going multiple days without sleep and getting almost careless enough to get killed.
I guess the correctness of statement "sane peeps who like Gideons" depends on your definition of sanity. Or I'm just twisted, that's also a possibility. Since for me hero stopping in the middle of planar catastrophe to rescue one person = hero dooming the unseen people who will die due to catastrophe not being terminated in time. Something like hero deciding "it's okay if more people will die as long as I won't personally see it". My biggest complaint will be to Gideon getting distracted by the events on Ravnica.
until he figured out Jace was a planeswalker, he had no plan beyond "I know that Ravnica is a walker hub, so I'll hang out there until I find some walkers to help while doing the best I can to help Zendikar hold out on my own". Once he figured out Jace was a walker and got a clue as to how he could help, he sought him out. Of course, he also probably figured that the living guildpact wouldn't be able to walk away from Ravnica while a gang war threatened the Boros, so he had to help clear that to free up his schedule
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
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I don't expect Jace to be anywhere near the equal of a White or Red Planeswalker in battle. However, his Illusions can kill and maim (see his last encounter with Garruk). He can at least "Unsummon" creatures. Yeah, Telekinesis isn't his primary strength but please don't present him as some physically inept bookworm that is only valuable in intellectual pursuits.
No it's not. Whatever their very clear and unambiguous moral compass says is right is right. Which is the problem. Captain America would have been directly complicit in Ultron's extinction plot had it not been for Nick "Deus Ex Machina" Fury showing up at the last second. Why? Because Stark presented an option, the only option, that would have saved the planet but sacrificed the lives of the people on the chunk of floating land. In spite of what the clearly correct choice was Captain America was going to make the wrong one because his morals wouldn't allow him to do otherwise. It's not about "Will s/he do the right thing?" Or "What is the right thing" It's about "What will their moral system allow?" and that's always quickly laid out in any lore so that you can know where a character will stand and makes for boring characters and stories because the outcome will always be predictable. If you don't allow a character's views and stances to be challengable then that character cannot grow. Gideon isn't quite as bad as Cap since a certain foxy pyromancer managed to wiggle a little of Gideon's old rebellious side lose from his duty-bound, Order of Heliud instilled, utterly revolting goody-two-shoes-ness.
As for the "looking at a sword like a snake" I pictured that more as "You didn't tell me we were going to be fighting, you said there was a puzzle, and I'm here to solve it, what the hell are you giving me this for." Albeit, with a lot fewer words.
And in regards to "unsommoning" that is, I think in gameplay terms, more about severing the magical connection that keeps something on a plane. Which doesn't work when the thing in question is "from" that plane. There's nowhere to send it back too. That's the zone of exile.
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).
I did, however, find it amusing that after 6 years of study Tamiyo has finally made progress with her moon research.
No, not really. Gideon actually has pragmatism. Cap was willing to let all of humanity get wiped out because he couldn't put his big boy pants on and do what he needed to do. Gideon, on the other hand, understands that his actions on Zendikar, while noble, won't win the day. Captain America would stay on Zendikar and fight a losing battle until he and everyone else died, while Gideon was willing to go out and seek help even though he knew many lives would be lost in his absence. Gideon is more like Man of Steel Superman, which is still very white. Saving the many > saving the few.
Your mods are terrified of me.
Thar said, in a pure nonmagical duel my bet on the worst performer would be on Liliana. Doubt she had any exercise in nonmagical fight in last hundred years or so.
It's unfair to compare anyone to Superman in any incarnation. Superman is intended to be a God. His "moral challenges" are on a completely different level from that of a human. Captain America and Gideon are humans who can't get over their own moral superiority. If Gideon had any form of pragmatism he would have left those who are too wounded to move on their own to die. It's what they essentially are and by carrying them onward they're risking others dying. But he didn't. He let injured men and women carry them into the hedron fields. This is the apocalypse. You can't afford any of that sentimental crap. Save who you can and leave those you can't and more importantly understand who you can and who you can't save. Gideon does honestly think his actions will win the day. He sees himself, perhaps rightly so, as a symbol of hope to the Zendikari. The thing is it seems as though when he left he didn't think things would go as badly as they did. His thoughts in this story seem to show that he thought they would be able to hold out until he returned. Yes he understood that he was more delayed than he hoped but we're talking about the Eldrazi. A small camp of humans is nothing to wipe out in a day. He's typical white. Going to find Jace has been the most flexibility and adaptability he has shown outside of his sural AND HE BLOODY REGRETS IT! He's more concerned with saving a few lives here and now than finding a long term solution to save the entire plane. The lives of individual Zendikari will come and go regardless of the Eldrazi but as long as Zendikar stands there will be a place for there to be Zendikari period. It's not about what's right it's about what he thinks is right.
To be fair, more than any of the other main walkers we follow around now, Gideon is a warrior, first and foremost. He's not "dumb" but figuring out long term solutions when there is danger right in front of him doesn't seem like the path a warrior who has always been able to solve problems with with his fists and his invulnerability wouldn't follow in the first place (well... except that one time. You know). It was why he needed to go out and search for others like Jace, ones who could do more than fight on the front lines. I feel like Gideon is well aware it's a losing battle, especially after this UR, and he knows just fighting to save the camps of resistance isn't enough because of this, if that's the issue-- his not recognizing that what he's doing isn't enough. I think he only does that mostly because that's just what he has to offer more than anything else, his skill in combat magic(which again just fighting Eldrazi won't be enough to save Zendikar). He regrets leaving to actually find this help, but he did it regardless. We all sometimes regret doing something at the time even if we know in the long run it's for the best, I think. I also think it's fine to have characters like this as part of team, since it allows us to see the conflict between people who few things through a more logical lense, like Jace in this story.
I actually enjoyed this story a lot myself though. Reception seems to have been lukewarm at best otherwise. There was no scene as awesome as the one where he slingshot an eldrazi over Sea Gate, though. The big thing that bothered me was as has been said, Jace's total incompetence (well, mayeb not incompetence is the right word for how he was portrayed in general here), not just at fighting but in the story as whole, since it felt like him and Gideon were on totally different wavelengths. Which I suppose is fair and to be expected. Jace is mono blue first and foremost and same for Gideon, so I guess it's natural that they would view things through totally different lenses. I do hope they give Jace a role he can be more competent at in a future story until they find Jori En so he can solve the puzzle of leylines, rather than front lines battle like he was awkwardly thrown into here, or at least do something other than get thrown a sword and thrown up in the air and throw some guys around(I guess that was Telepath Unbound's +2 in action!).
I didn't even notice the redundancy of Gideon's sural swinging back and forth myself, it being pointed out also sort of dampened things a bit for me I guess.
But the people behind the barrier knew.
I am comforted by characters who, while the world is falling apart, takes the time to rescue the one. Kinda like the parable of the lost sheep in the Christian tradition. I understand that not everyone feels this way but I feel like this, my opinion is needed here as sometimes these traditional guys like Gideon and Cap'n get picked on a lot in the contemporary age. I want it understood that there is a substantive number of people do understand and love such heroes. If others prefer Iron Man, or Jace, Or Lili that's fine but there are sane peeps who like the Gideons and Cap'ns even if they sometimes appear cliche.
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
She had one job.
Welp. Looks like I'll be waiting for Return to Theros on this one. Great. I had hoped the Bident would allow Kiora to cast him on Zendikar anyway, but nope.
I agree Dack, Elspeth, Ajani and Ashiok are probably going to be the main cast of Return to Theros, with Dack descending into the underworld playing a major part. I wonder how his Gauntlet will play into that, too. I don't know if I really care to see Ashiok as the main villain there... On another plane perhaps, but Theros has had enough planeswalkers meddling around between Xenagos, Elspeth and Ajani killing him, Dack stealing the gauntlet half, Kiora stealing Thassa's Bident, and Ashiok messing with dreams and obliterating Iretis (which was lame and weird. No other gods minded this?)
Love the little Tamiyo update lol
I love how Jace is developing telekinetic powers and appeared randomly in a moment of high stress. But I think it's silly that he'd be literally physically fightning the Eldrazi. Not only is it pointless to kill the drones while the titans are still around, but Jace is better suited solving the leyline mystery, and taking up the intellectual battle alongside Ugin. He should be studying and conjuring ways to defeat or re-seal the Eldrazi, or uncovering their purpose, or what have you, rather than brute forcing them with Gideon. Which is a bit awkward and a waste of his potential and of time. The PWs are sure to lose with that strategy. Scouring Zendikar of the drones is what one does after taking care of the titans who spawn them... And from the get-go the PWs seemed doomed anyway, even if Ulamog were their only foe.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Recall Gideon's first story under Creative instead of Resnick. He helped a fort fight off an Eldrazi army, but the second he saw Emrakul he realized everyone there was dead. He abandoned them right there to go and find planeswalker help on Ravnica. That's the whole reason he's there. He's been looking for allies and this is the first time he found any. He only recently found out the aloof Guildpact guy is actually a planeswalker, also.
Anyway, I never looked at the whole godhood aspect, and now that you've brought it up it makes even more sense. Gideon is more like Superman than Captain America because Gideon has had invulnerability since he was a child. He could do things others couldn't. A huge chunk of the character development he's gotten is "You're just one man, dude." He thought he could smite Erebos, that failed. He thought his presence on Zendikar could change things, but it hasn't. He thought he alone is capable of protecting the innocents on Ravnica, but he was wrong.
Pragmatism doesn't mean you have to be a jerk, it just means you're able to step back and look at the big picture. Gideon's shown that ability, unlike Captain America. I hate Captain America precisely for that. Man of Steel Superman snapped Zod's neck when it came between keeping him alive, or keeping everyone else alive; instead of focusing on saving every random person on the street that's gonna get a building dropped on them, he goes thousands of miles into the Indian Ocean to stop the World Engine because if he doesn't everyone is dead. That's who Gideon is.
Your mods are terrified of me.
Plus, he doesn't only fight the Eldrazi. He also fights crime on (Are you on or in planes?) Ravnica. And he does a good job at that too.
Another thing he did that wasn't fighting. He figured out his limits. Limits are White's biggest problem. He figured out that he needed help and that fighting wasn't going to stop the Eldrazi or the crime on (Again, on or in?) Ravnica. So he got another guy who wanted to protect as many as possible to help him. Then, that guy forced him to see a healer. Gideon later agrees that if he didn't see the healer, Zendikar would have been screwed in the mana-hole.
He does not only fight the Eldrazi; he just fights them a lot.
You do raelize that again, this is in character for the color right? Jace is a blue mage and a planner but he needs TIME. The man planeswalked right into an aggro deck and didn't have the proper spell set up to answer the threats. Jace wasn't in the right mindset to fight. Now personally, I'd like him to go a bit Loki and go invisible and stabby stab the Eldrazi but this was a pretty pretty strong example of blue's weakness in combat. Jace is likely to fair better once he's studied a bit and has some specific counter measures in place.
Basically this. Glad someone pointed it out.
Thank you. Geez. It's like people don't raelize the point of characters like Gideon AND Captain America isn't what they do themselves so much as the effect they have on others. That Avengers example thrown out above? That scene wasn't supposed to show you, "Cap is such an idiot he'd have let Ultron's plan succeed because he wasn't willing to do the logical thing to win because it chaffed his morality." It's supposed to show you how he helped change Nick Fury, who even though he wouldn't let the missle take out New York, has in the past been guilty of the exact same numbers gaming, acceptable losses, sacrifice one to save hundreds mentality. And while most of the time that's probably right, that scene is about how Cap encourages people to take a third option and be the best of who they are. That's what Gideon is for this group of Walkers. He's not necessarily the leader though it seems to be the role they're setting him up for. He's the heart.
As for the story itself I actually dug it a fair bit and I'm excited for more but if I can go back to the "For Zendikar" story for a bit this new version of Nissa's character makes me even more disappointed that they removed the elf supremacy aspect from her backstory because this would have been a great progression. To see her speciesism begin to fade as she realizes the connectivity of all things even those that aren't elves. It would have been great to see a character struggle with a wrong headed idea and eventually shake it off organically in the story rather than have it written out of existence. Basically for the sake of nuance have Nissa go from Green/Black in magic and characterization to just Green as kind of a Garruk foil. Heck, you could even have a great bit of flavor for why she ends up disdaining black magic (even though she'll likely still find beauty and respect for the swamps) as a bad reminder of who she used to be and the mistakes she made. The For Zendikar story was great butstuff like that always makes me yearn for what could have been even more awesome.
It may seem like nitpicking, but it's a major part of Gideon. Ranks and rules aren't things he follows if it stops him from doing good. They also aren't things that push him to do what is right. This is also another way in which Gideon and Cap aren't alike: Cap does what he does because he's a soldier and obligated to. Gideon does what's right because it's what's right, like Superman.
Your mods are terrified of me.
A simplified way to think of it is that Cap is Lawful Good, Gideon is Neutral Good.
Unfortunately the eldrazi pictures were the most interesting part of the UR to me. The actual contents could be summed up as "Some camp has been destroyed. Gideon kills some eldrazi. Sural, sural, sural. Gideon and Jace help some survivors get to seagate using the hedrons. The end." It's telling that the catching up article contained more information than the story.
Decent story, but when will Gideon run out of juice? His limits are pretty arbitrary, which isn't good since it makes it harder to get invested.
Nothing has really changed design-wise. Literally every Eldrazi we've seen since comic con have been Ulamog spawn. Maybe you just like the bone masks more, since that's all that really distinguishes them from Emrakul's spawn, and they look nothing at all like Kozilek's.
Your mods are terrified of me.
It seems there is a bit more variety within the Ulamog lineage. In ROE literally all of Ulamog's eldrazi were semi-humanoids with lots of tentacles and round bone heads. Now we get tongue-beetles, siamese chest-twins and probably a lot more cool stuff. I know the basic design didn't change, but they play a bit more with the lineage's features, which I really like. In ROE, Ulamog's brood was the least diverse of the three so it's great to see some variety beyond bone plates and tentacles.
Kozilek's spawn, on the other hand, are all very diverse (see Not of This World, Kozilek's Predator, Rapacious One, Dread Drone, It That Betrays, even IoK). Emrakul's spawn are similarly diverse (see Hand of Emrakul, Emrakul's Hatcher, Nest Invader).
Anyhow, story's getting kind of old at this point. "Gideon fights some Eldrazi. Minor story advancement. Gideon fights some more Eldrazi, ponders about how he's not doing enough. Minor story advancement. Rinse and repeat." There had better be some actual plot to the BFZ storyline instead of just having some planeswalkers fighting the Eldrazi while others are figuring out how to reseal them. Maybe Ob Nixilis can actually make for a deeper secondary plot that leads into Liliana's story (i.e. his trying to get the Chain Veil back after regaining his spark?)
Yeah, this was straight up filler; hopefully we get something a bit more substantial after PAX.
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
It wasn't just filler, it was boring filler.
You know what would have been better filler? Showing how some of the Zendikari hold out against the Eldrazi in Gideon's absence. There could have been multiple substories in the same UR, jumping across the plane showing us how it's the same everywhere and giving us a feel of just how ****ed everyone is. That would have been much more emotionally engaging than Gideon performing his sural whips and going "MUST WHIP MORE" for the Xth time.
In this premise Jace is pretty much dead any time he planeswalks alone into an unknown, hostile environment (there is an office building sexual harassment joke in there somewhere). Jace has prior knowledge of the Eldrazi and the situation on Zendikar. Blue mages are all about preparation and planned reactions. He should have had all the information he needed from conversations with Gideon (and I also refuse to believe he wouldn't probe Gideon's mind for any extra information with or without Gideon's permission). In this story it appears Jace thought he was planeswalking into the middle of some scholarly lecture rather than a plane at war on the brink of annihilation. Again, I don't expect a blue character to be a match for a white or red character when it comes to hand to hand combat, or even a green character's ferociousness and strength. I do take exception to portraying a character as experienced and supposedly powerful as Jace as helpless and paralyzed when combat is necessary without any warning.
I, too, am one of those people. I guess I'm really just posting to help show that your "substantive number of people" statement is not a lie. I'd say more, but most of what I would say has been covered.
Edit: damn I'm tongue tied these days. Should've made more clear that under "events on Ravnica" I mean not "seeking Jace's, or any other planeswalker's, for that matter, help", which is reasonable thought, but "getting into goblin confrontation", which, as it was pointed out in all those stories, led to him going multiple days without sleep and getting almost careless enough to get killed.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!