2)Related: "you have to kill important characters so the readers can understand what happens once the eldrazi ravage the land... it's story writing 101." I am a writer. I've taken courses. I must say that particular statement never came up. You have to impart on your readers a sense of danger, scale, etc., sure. But there are many ways to do it. Killing important characters is certainly one easy way, to establish that. It is neither the only, nor the ultimate guaranteed best way. There are other ways to impart on the viewer such understanding. It takes more effort and skill than a lot of writers have, but it is possible.
I agree with you, but I feel you'd agree with me when I say the writers didn't really deliver on any other method either. I feel they could have, if the readers felt more invested in characters not obviously protected by plot armor. None of the Origins Planeswalkers were in any personal danger (except maybe from Ob) so that sense had to come from the native Zendikari. This is what helped make Tazri's and Drana's stories good. Tazri was in very real and very legitimate danger, and Drana had a strong connection with the people following her which were also seriously threatened. Drana also had the benefit of being a leader in a much more difficult scenario than Gideon's. The story focused on the (protected) Planeswalkers though, so that sense of danger was less present.
As a side note, I know Nissa is a Zendikari but she really didn't feel like one. Other than that one occasion towards the beginning, she didn't seem to have any empathy towards the people of Zendikar and any time her past on the plane was brought up it was always in the context of her old self/personal demons.
Missed this. Yea, I do agree that the writers didn't really deliver on any method either. Hence why my overall opinion of the block story is a meh. I said all of that because I have a lot of strong opinions about writing and stories and a lot of people on this board were talking like there was no other way, that death HAD to happen or there was no way for this story to be any good. It could have been good, it just wasn't.
I debate the use of the term plot armor in relation to this story. I think people are too quick to cry "Plot Armor" just because they think someone should have died. Speaking as some one who beat a few odds in still being able to breath today, just because it was likely someone would die in a situation doesn't mean they should die in the story. Surviving incredibly bad odds does not instantly mean it was plot armor. That being said, when I think about this story, even I find it hard to make an argument that plot armor was NOT involved here. I'm still not quite jumping on the plot armor side, but I'm not sure it wasn't plot armor either.
I think the story itself is just one part of what that entire department get up to: I think world-building and card and set flavour take up far more of their time than writing actual underlying story.
You are correct. But given the size of the team, and the resources available to them, I still don't understand how they can not get the most basic things right.
I think your initial post in this discussion came across as pretty harsh on the story-telling team - maybe that was intentional, maybe it was just an outworking of frustration, most probably it was some combination of the two. 'Misguided, disorganised, and lazy'? I don't know. I'm more willing to assume that they were put under more pressure with less time to fine tune due to the compressing of the tale from three sets to two. That doesn't in any way excuse the poorness of the general arc, but maybe it mitigates a little the quality of some of the output? Were they under corporate pressure to preserve all the precious IP? Perhaps, though the report that they never even considered having the Eldrazi win implies the story's concept was flawed from the start.
As I've said, I generally don't disagree with you. I think I'm just more reluctant to pour too much contempt on people who work hard to try to give us entertainment.
I concede that at times I have been harsh in my accusations. But I have been patient and exonerative for the past 20 years, and my capacity for such pleasantries is finite. Call it geek-rage or butthurtery if you wish; you might even be right. In any case, I would rather criticise Wizards *before* it inflicts MTG: Mighty Wizards 'n' Warriors 3D onto an embarrassed MTG community and a bewildered general public.
I don't know where the decision to manufacture the Gatewatch came from (Hasbro? Brand? Creative? The upcoming movie?), but I don't like it and I think it's the source of most of my nagging doubts for the future.
It's impossible to say from whom the Gatewatch idea originated -- creative or marketing -- since both departments seem to now be identical in function.
I feel the next era of story will not be written for the likes of us, but more for my 14 year old son and a movie-going audience binged on the never-ending diet of Marvel, and consequently my expectations have fallen. But my hope is that BFZ has been an anomaly, and that the return to Innistrad, with a more structured timescale for the story's development, will see an upswing in quality. I won't hold my breath, but I hope to be pleasantly surprised.
You have a penchant for optimism. Alas, I do not.
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"For the sake of Hasbro's half-year financial report, we will keep watch."
-- The Gatewatch
The intensity of conversation here is surprising to me. While we may try to establish "objective" measures of judging Story (the concept), I'm not sure any exist.
What I think this conversation lacks is reader motivation and purpose.
For example, I am fine with the current story. Is it anything world-altering? Nope. Are some weeks poorly written? Sure. Do I personally feel some marks were missed? Absolutely.
However, I don't go to the Magic Fiction articles for great fiction--I go because I want to see what our characters are up to.
When I want something groundbreaking, I go to other authors and other series. When I want something academic, I read critical articles. When I want something formulaic, I turn to other series. When I want something meaningful, I turn to other texts. My purpose for reading Magic now is different than when I was younger. Then, it was one of my main sources of fantasy (next to Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time). Now, it's just a nice weekly read.
We are all clearly reading for different purposes and have different expectations--thus the arguments.
The excessive criticisms and complaints add nothing to our understanding of Magic's new continuity.
Other than it makes me want to visit these forums less often.
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Dominian Scholar of the Old Guard, specializing in pre-revisionist (Armada comics) and revisionist (Brothers' War through Apocalypse)history
I think that WoTC is doing a fine job in storytelling. As stated above, not all will be great but it's a fantasy series so something's will defy logic or the heroes will do something that is improbable or certain characters will be cliché. Do I like all this? Not all of it but I think it's worth noticing that everyone compares the Gatewatch to the Avengers and the Avengers is very popular so the approach is understandable.
Instead of criticism, we should discuss how the events in the story might play out while saying what we might have enjoyed instead without hating on Wizards for it.
I feel like we need to remember the purpose of this forum and it isn't necessarily to keep Wizards accountable although such can be achieved through such discussion.
This is the official thread for discussion of Uncharted Realms, Wizards of the Coast's point of delivery for the current Magic storyline. Uncharted Realms updates on Wednesdays.
While not everyone will have the same opinions on the stories each week, please keep the discussion positive. If you disagree with someone's opinion, do not flame them.
Remember this rule of thumb: it's fine to attack an idea, but don't attack the person who had it.
If you read carefully, you will see the words "It's fine to attack an idea", which is precisely what I did.
I agree that liking a story is subjective. But the craftmanship of a story -- that is to say, the amount of skill and effort with which it is told -- is actually pretty objective. And it was this that I was talking about.
Nobody is required to defend or explain why they like (or don't like)the current storyline nor is anyone blind, stupid, immoral, distasteful or uninvested for liking or disliking such stories.
I agree with the first part of the sentence. As for the second, I would never accuse someone of being stupid for liking badly told stories. I would, however, accuse them of not having read many stories, or of being easily pleased. I would also suspect that they had poor taste, just as I would if they preferred dog food over filet mignon.
Are there standards to fiction? absolutely! but ultimately my standards are superior to yours
Should we offer critique? yes.
True criticism however is having an eye open for strengths and weaknesses. Seeing the good with the bad.
There are many ways to discuss the positives of a story while noting the errors and weaknesses in writing, lets remember to keep both eyes open. I fear there are some of us whom Wizards will never be able to please and admittedly there are those that are too easily pleased by Wizards. Ultimately that doesn't matter however.
What matters is that this forum has continuously become a place over the last few weeks, nay, months where the most ardent defenders and harshest critics of the franchise's story have come to do battle. I know this sounds condescending but Enough.
You're right. It does sound condescending.
More seriously, if I'm not positive enough about the story, it isn't because "the salt is strong" or "haters gonna hate"; it's because I am trying to be objective in my critique, and being objective precludes the possibility of being positive for positivity's sake.
If we really want wizards to listen to us instead of treating us as Citizens Against Virtually Everything we need to eloquently and responsibly give our feedback.
I'm sorry my criticism wasn't eloquent enough for you. I'll try harder next time.
I don't know about you but I rarely feel in the disposition to change when the voice to change sounds unreasonable, especially when I have all the power to do so and the critique is coming from just a fraction of my audience. That's what we are. A fraction. They are trying to expand upon us by giving storyline more pull so lets treat this opportunity carefully.
Not break the chinaware.
So, you're saying they will listen to my criticism, if I only say "please?"
I'm pretty sure that WOTC doesn't care what we older players think, regardless of how "reasonable" we may be, as they figure they already have us by the wallets. I only write about how bad their storytelling is because I am immensely disturbed by it, and feel it is hindering MTG more than helping it. Some of my friends find it funny that I play a "kid's game". I've always maintained that it isn't a kid's game, but whenever I glimpse the story, I find I have no defence against their allegations. That's why I stay away from the story; it makes me feel like I'm too old to play this game.
For the record, one reason I am concerned about WOTC's storytelling is that it is going to stop many from giving the game a chance. Once folks read about Jace and his "Power level over 9000!" friends, they will quickly realise that this is a game squarely marketed at young children (despite the 13+ stipulation). Who wants to play what they perceive as a kid's game? No one, least of all kids. And if the MTG movie is told with the same nonchalance as the rest of the lore, as I believe it will be, then it will not popularise the game, but instead turn MTG into an even bigger laughing stock among the general population, and further stigmatise us players as dorks and man-children.
I understand that you are concerned.
And believe me when I say that I am also concerned. I did not care for the titan's death which did not follow the Lovecraftian as precisely as I'd wish, The poor depiction of the block's wars nor the overreliance on formulaic narrative.
But I honestly do not believe you are helping you're own argument by such flames and it is precisely because I want Wizards to take your position seriously that I'm asking you to be temperate in your critique. Real critique does mention the positives even while lamenting the faults and many here have done precisely that. Not all the stories have been awful, and the tropes hit in and of themselves could have been successful had their writing being up to the task.
I'm not saying to be positive for positivity's sake. I'm saying that it fleshes of your argument better by noting precisely the rights and wrongs of the story. And to be honest even if storytelling isn't objective it is not an easy thing to establish as what is right or wrong in such storytelling.
I'm believe in moral absolutes, But I also understand that it is difficult to establish amongst others.
Believe it or not I agree with much of your points, I'm on your side and that's why I'm concerned with your portrayal of such. I think your argument would be strengthened by such temperance but do what you want I guess. I will continue to call for temperance.
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Wizards. listen. The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
Embittered and abrasive much. But I agree, there is some sense amidst the grumblings.
My personal issue with the BFZ storyline was the caliber of opponent that Wizards decided for the hastily-formed and unestablished Gatewatch to defeat. I understand there have been some creative changes since 10 years ago but there should be some semblance of consistency and even respect for the canon. A happy medium between Yawgmoth mopping the floor with Oldwalkers and Nissa and Chandra destroying TWO omnipotent otherworldly forces of un-nature would be ideal. Consequences of this war for the multiverse? Nameless dead and a pulled back muscle for Chandra. I don't advocate death as a show of severity at all. But other than a lengthy regrowth initiative, what was the cost of all this?
Then again even back in the day things were wonky. Ixidor becoming godly and raising armies and religions, and Kristina being undone by Tevesh Szat's breath. Or was it Daria...
Embittered and abrasive much. But I agree, there is some sense amidst the grumblings.
My personal issue with the BFZ storyline was the caliber of opponent that Wizards decided for the hastily-formed and unestablished Gatewatch to defeat. I understand there have been some creative changes since 10 years ago but there should be some semblance of consistency and even respect for the canon. A happy medium between Yawgmoth mopping the floor with Oldwalkers and Nissa and Chandra destroying TWO omnipotent otherworldly forces of un-nature would be ideal. Consequences of this war for the multiverse? Nameless dead and a pulled back muscle for Chandra. I don't advocate death as a show of severity at all. But other than a lengthy regrowth initiative, what was the cost of all this?
Then again even back in the day things were wonky. Ixidor becoming godly and raising armies and religions, and Kristina being undone by Tevesh Szat's breath. Or was it Daria...
Your avatar.
What is it from.
It's clear this story suffered from poor, limited planning, a revolving door of authors with inconsistent capabilities (some of which were entirely new and handed responsibilities beyond their present talents), disproportionate pacing and questionable partitioning of material, linear goals, transparent endpoints, and worst of absolute all, modeling future lore after the Avengers franchise, which is nothing more than mindless saturation of adrenaline to compensate for quality, thought-provoking content. Major villains were cheapened and prior lore was compromised in credibility in favor of marketing. A shame.
Kamigawa series and Godsend were good. This was embarrassing save for a few gems.
I loved Kamigawa's story. It made the sets more enjoyable to play for me. BFZ's story had the opposite effect overall, though I fell in love with Jori En and Tazri tbh. And I wished Ob Nixilis had a cooler card to go with his portrayal.
I debate the use of the term plot armor in relation to this story. I think people are too quick to cry "Plot Armor" just because they think someone should have died. Speaking as some one who beat a few odds in still being able to breath today, just because it was likely someone would die in a situation doesn't mean they should die in the story. Surviving incredibly bad odds does not instantly mean it was plot armor. That being said, when I think about this story, even I find it hard to make an argument that plot armor was NOT involved here. I'm still not quite jumping on the plot armor side, but I'm not sure it wasn't plot armor either.
The reason I say they have plot armor is because the structure of the story doesn't afford them dying or sustaining a debilitating injury. Marketing isn't going to waste their time in Origins promoting five Planeswalkers only to have one or two of them die in the next block, and likely several blocks after it as well. The same goes for Planes, especially for ones that were very popular. It takes away some useful tools from the creative team, but they can work around it.
Many here are talking of "objective" storytelling mistakes yet either don't specify what those mistakes are or direct to storytelling guidelines that are not always applicable. Include links, backup and explanations if your going to claim the stories are "objectively" badly made.
Reminder: This thread is for discussing the story itself, not the quality of the storytelling. It's okay to talk about the quality of the individual articles here, and to some extent the overall plot, but if you're focused on the quality of the story over the plot, please take it to the re-dubbed Storytelling Critique thread. Please try to keep it to a rule of thumb of 70/30 - Less than a third of your posts should be about the quality of the story over the plot. There are multiple other threads where you can also express your opinion. This is NOT targeted at anyone in particular, but we may ask you to take certain lines of discussion elsewhere.
Obviously, BFZ is a very controversial block, and you are all welcome to share your opinions, but at the same time we don't want to drown out the voices who want to talk about the articles or what's happening in the story.
Plot twist: Everything from the moment Kozilek rose to this point is a hallucination. Everyone here would be happy.
Does anyone remember whether the Eldrazi titans were a single entity or 3 separate ones? When Ugin explained to Jace, it sounded as if either:
"Eldrazi" was a single entity with the titans being the limbs and the brood being extensions of the limbs or
"Eldrazi" consists of 3 separate entities with each titan representing a portion of it's full existence and the brood are extensions.
It doesn't make sense to pull Ulamog and Kozilek completely into Zendikar without pulling Emrakul too unless each titan is a separate entity.
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Modern
Competitive: GW Hatebears - UG Infect - BGW Liege Rhino
Casual: GR Titan Ramp - BR Aggro
WIP: BUW Control Mill
Plot twist: Everything from the moment Kozilek rose to this point is a hallucination. Everyone here would be happy.
Does anyone remember whether the Eldrazi titans were a single entity or 3 separate ones? When Ugin explained to Jace, it sounded as if either:
"Eldrazi" was a single entity with the titans being the limbs and the brood being extensions of the limbs or
"Eldrazi" consists of 3 separate entities with each titan representing a portion of it's full existence and the brood are extensions.
It doesn't make sense to pull Ulamog and Kozilek completely into Zendikar without pulling Emrakul too unless each titan is a separate entity.
I believe Ugin was just explaining how each Titan works. The titans are all individuals, with the brood being extensions of the titans.
Plot twist: Everything from the moment Kozilek rose to this point is a hallucination. Everyone here would be happy.
Does anyone remember whether the Eldrazi titans were a single entity or 3 separate ones? When Ugin explained to Jace, it sounded as if either:
"Eldrazi" was a single entity with the titans being the limbs and the brood being extensions of the limbs or
"Eldrazi" consists of 3 separate entities with each titan representing a portion of it's full existence and the brood are extensions.
It doesn't make sense to pull Ulamog and Kozilek completely into Zendikar without pulling Emrakul too unless each titan is a separate entity.
I believe Ugin was just explaining how each Titan works. The titans are all individuals, with the brood being extensions of the titans.
I agree with @Jay13x
It would've been cool to see Jace try to probe Kozilek's mind or something and see what would happen.
Plot twist: Everything from the moment Kozilek rose to this point is a hallucination. Everyone here would be happy.
Does anyone remember whether the Eldrazi titans were a single entity or 3 separate ones? When Ugin explained to Jace, it sounded as if either:
"Eldrazi" was a single entity with the titans being the limbs and the brood being extensions of the limbs or
"Eldrazi" consists of 3 separate entities with each titan representing a portion of it's full existence and the brood are extensions.
It doesn't make sense to pull Ulamog and Kozilek completely into Zendikar without pulling Emrakul too unless each titan is a separate entity.
I believe Ugin was just explaining how each Titan works. The titans are all individuals, with the brood being extensions of the titans.
I agree with @Jay13x
It would've been cool to see Jace try to probe Kozilek's mind or something and see what would happen.
In my posts before the BFZ URs started, this was something I actually anticipated to happen. That Jace would attempt this, and possibly fail, but that we'd have some insight on the titans. Oh well.
Today's story was refreshing; no more impending doom. I wonder what the Eldrazi did for the multiversal ecosystem, or rather, what Ugin thinks they do for it that they need to be alive but trapped.
New story was really good, I think if this became the minimum quality and length for all future stories I'd be really happy. Chandra was hilarious, ugin was funny and interesting, each character had something resembling development and a plot arc. This was really good. Best part was probably the second half of Ugin's passage, especially when he goes down to all 4, snorts, and leaves. He pretty much said Well, I can't deal with these millenia and left.
There is no force in all the Multiverse more dangerous or capricious than Planeswalkers," he said, shaking his horned head.
Just "normal" mages that can travel between planes hahaha.So why did the mending need to happen?
Today's article strongly suggested that Ugin could have killed the titans all those years ago if he wanted to. That's a massive retcon, but better a retcon than a ridiculous inconsistency of ability between old and new walkers.
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I primarily play limited, so most of my spoiler season comments view cards through that lens.
This was one of my favorite URs so far.
I was hoping for Ugin to be a little more temperamental but at least he appeared and at least there will be consequences.
I hope creative already have plans for what those consequences are.
Wizards. listen. The Vorthos community will await for the consequences of the Titans' deaths. We will keep the watch.
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Wizards. listen. The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
Today's article strongly suggested that Ugin could have killed the titans all those years ago if he wanted to. That's a massive retcon, but better a retcon than a ridiculous inconsistency of ability between old and new walkers.
Wasn't the story always about how Ugin wanted to trap rather than kill. He wanted to study them and was not sure the repercussions of killing them
Today's article strongly suggested that Ugin could have killed the titans all those years ago if he wanted to. That's a massive retcon, but better a retcon than a ridiculous inconsistency of ability between old and new walkers.
How is it a retcon? Ugin never said he couldn't destroy them, he just prioritized capturing them. It's akin to a fisherman catching fish to put on display in an aquarium. The fisherman could have killed the fish, but he chose not to. How is it hard to believe that Ugin could have destroyed the Titans?
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I host a podcast called Eyes on the Mise! My cohost and I release weekly episodes talking about Magic community, metagames, and our thoughts! Come hang out!
I enjoyed the four individual post-war perspectives and thoughts.
Is it just me or should approximately every 4th story have Ugin rebuking some random Planeswalker of the week for all the missteps he/she took over the past few stories? I really find myself enjoying the story whenever he shows up and chews somebody out. Well composed insults, arrogant, dismissive attitude, and vague, impending sense of doom from shortsighted actions of short lived PWs (from a millenias old dragon's perspective) really do it for me. And I really like how he basically stated "You young'uns just threw one hell of a party, got out of control, made a huge mess, and none of you will stick around to help me clean up after you. Thanks for that."
I was pretty disappointed with Ugin's portrayal in this story. He came across more as a grumpy "you kids get off my lawn" old guy than as a nigh-immortal being of incomprehensible insight and intelligence. He was portrayed much better in the story which featured just him and Jace. I would love to see a storyline that shows us just what Bolas has been up to over the past several years, but at this point I have no confidence that the writers are up to portraying that in a convincing manner. Jace's characterization of Bolas as "terrifying" is fine for what it is, but part of what should be terrifying about him is that he thinks about things on a level and at a scope completely impossible to lesser beings, which would include pretty much everyone short of Ugin and, to a lesser extent, maybe Sorin.
The idea that the destruction of two of the titans might have a ripple effect across the multiverse is an interesting one, certainly. This is not exactly an original idea - comparing the MtG storyline to classic comic stories which clearly inspire the MtG stuff, Marvel stories back in the 80s dealt with the role Galactus plays in the bigger scheme of things, and why just destroying him is not an option - but it does call to question what this might mean to future stories. Will the two destroyed titans be replaced by new, slightly different versions (ala what happens when one of the Endless dies in SANDMAN), or will they be replaced by something entirely different, and perhaps much more powerful, difficult to defeat or downright malevolent? Maybe we'll find out someday.
The exchanges between the Gatewatch members were kinda goofy at times, but in a somewhat charming way. I'm again reminded of classic Avengers/JLA/Legion of Super-Heroes stories. People keep going with the Avengers metaphor, but in some ways I get more of a Justice League vibe from this team. Jace is the mysterious smart guy ala Batman, while Gideon is not a bad stand-in for Superman, both in terms of his combat power, nigh-invulnerability and moral perspective.
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Missed this. Yea, I do agree that the writers didn't really deliver on any method either. Hence why my overall opinion of the block story is a meh. I said all of that because I have a lot of strong opinions about writing and stories and a lot of people on this board were talking like there was no other way, that death HAD to happen or there was no way for this story to be any good. It could have been good, it just wasn't.
I debate the use of the term plot armor in relation to this story. I think people are too quick to cry "Plot Armor" just because they think someone should have died. Speaking as some one who beat a few odds in still being able to breath today, just because it was likely someone would die in a situation doesn't mean they should die in the story. Surviving incredibly bad odds does not instantly mean it was plot armor. That being said, when I think about this story, even I find it hard to make an argument that plot armor was NOT involved here. I'm still not quite jumping on the plot armor side, but I'm not sure it wasn't plot armor either.
You are correct. But given the size of the team, and the resources available to them, I still don't understand how they can not get the most basic things right.
I concede that at times I have been harsh in my accusations. But I have been patient and exonerative for the past 20 years, and my capacity for such pleasantries is finite. Call it geek-rage or butthurtery if you wish; you might even be right. In any case, I would rather criticise Wizards *before* it inflicts MTG: Mighty Wizards 'n' Warriors 3D onto an embarrassed MTG community and a bewildered general public.
It's impossible to say from whom the Gatewatch idea originated -- creative or marketing -- since both departments seem to now be identical in function.
You have a penchant for optimism. Alas, I do not.
-- The Gatewatch
What I think this conversation lacks is reader motivation and purpose.
For example, I am fine with the current story. Is it anything world-altering? Nope. Are some weeks poorly written? Sure. Do I personally feel some marks were missed? Absolutely.
However, I don't go to the Magic Fiction articles for great fiction--I go because I want to see what our characters are up to.
When I want something groundbreaking, I go to other authors and other series. When I want something academic, I read critical articles. When I want something formulaic, I turn to other series. When I want something meaningful, I turn to other texts. My purpose for reading Magic now is different than when I was younger. Then, it was one of my main sources of fantasy (next to Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time). Now, it's just a nice weekly read.
We are all clearly reading for different purposes and have different expectations--thus the arguments.
The excessive criticisms and complaints add nothing to our understanding of Magic's new continuity.
Other than it makes me want to visit these forums less often.
Instead of criticism, we should discuss how the events in the story might play out while saying what we might have enjoyed instead without hating on Wizards for it.
I understand that you are concerned.
And believe me when I say that I am also concerned. I did not care for the titan's death which did not follow the Lovecraftian as precisely as I'd wish, The poor depiction of the block's wars nor the overreliance on formulaic narrative.
But I honestly do not believe you are helping you're own argument by such flames and it is precisely because I want Wizards to take your position seriously that I'm asking you to be temperate in your critique. Real critique does mention the positives even while lamenting the faults and many here have done precisely that. Not all the stories have been awful, and the tropes hit in and of themselves could have been successful had their writing being up to the task.
I'm not saying to be positive for positivity's sake. I'm saying that it fleshes of your argument better by noting precisely the rights and wrongs of the story. And to be honest even if storytelling isn't objective it is not an easy thing to establish as what is right or wrong in such storytelling.
I'm believe in moral absolutes, But I also understand that it is difficult to establish amongst others.
Believe it or not I agree with much of your points, I'm on your side and that's why I'm concerned with your portrayal of such. I think your argument would be strengthened by such temperance but do what you want I guess. I will continue to call for temperance.
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
My personal issue with the BFZ storyline was the caliber of opponent that Wizards decided for the hastily-formed and unestablished Gatewatch to defeat. I understand there have been some creative changes since 10 years ago but there should be some semblance of consistency and even respect for the canon. A happy medium between Yawgmoth mopping the floor with Oldwalkers and Nissa and Chandra destroying TWO omnipotent otherworldly forces of un-nature would be ideal. Consequences of this war for the multiverse? Nameless dead and a pulled back muscle for Chandra. I don't advocate death as a show of severity at all. But other than a lengthy regrowth initiative, what was the cost of all this?
Then again even back in the day things were wonky. Ixidor becoming godly and raising armies and religions, and Kristina being undone by Tevesh Szat's breath. Or was it Daria...
Your avatar.
What is it from.
It's clear this story suffered from poor, limited planning, a revolving door of authors with inconsistent capabilities (some of which were entirely new and handed responsibilities beyond their present talents), disproportionate pacing and questionable partitioning of material, linear goals, transparent endpoints, and worst of absolute all, modeling future lore after the Avengers franchise, which is nothing more than mindless saturation of adrenaline to compensate for quality, thought-provoking content. Major villains were cheapened and prior lore was compromised in credibility in favor of marketing. A shame.
Kamigawa series and Godsend were good. This was embarrassing save for a few gems.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
It's a drawing by Lius Lasahido. =)
I loved Kamigawa's story. It made the sets more enjoyable to play for me. BFZ's story had the opposite effect overall, though I fell in love with Jori En and Tazri tbh. And I wished Ob Nixilis had a cooler card to go with his portrayal.
Many here are talking of "objective" storytelling mistakes yet either don't specify what those mistakes are or direct to storytelling guidelines that are not always applicable. Include links, backup and explanations if your going to claim the stories are "objectively" badly made.
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Obviously, BFZ is a very controversial block, and you are all welcome to share your opinions, but at the same time we don't want to drown out the voices who want to talk about the articles or what's happening in the story.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Does anyone remember whether the Eldrazi titans were a single entity or 3 separate ones? When Ugin explained to Jace, it sounded as if either:
"Eldrazi" was a single entity with the titans being the limbs and the brood being extensions of the limbs or
"Eldrazi" consists of 3 separate entities with each titan representing a portion of it's full existence and the brood are extensions.
It doesn't make sense to pull Ulamog and Kozilek completely into Zendikar without pulling Emrakul too unless each titan is a separate entity.
Competitive: GW Hatebears - UG Infect - BGW Liege Rhino
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TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
I agree with @Jay13x
It would've been cool to see Jace try to probe Kozilek's mind or something and see what would happen.
In my posts before the BFZ URs started, this was something I actually anticipated to happen. That Jace would attempt this, and possibly fail, but that we'd have some insight on the titans. Oh well.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Just "normal" mages that can travel between planes hahaha.So why did the mending need to happen?
Expect #NissaShippers and #GideonShippers. Who will win Chandra's Heart?
Breathe out.
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I was hoping for Ugin to be a little more temperamental but at least he appeared and at least there will be consequences.
I hope creative already have plans for what those consequences are.
Wizards. listen.
The Vorthos community will await for the consequences of the Titans' deaths. We will keep the watch.
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
Wasn't the story always about how Ugin wanted to trap rather than kill. He wanted to study them and was not sure the repercussions of killing them
How is it a retcon? Ugin never said he couldn't destroy them, he just prioritized capturing them. It's akin to a fisherman catching fish to put on display in an aquarium. The fisherman could have killed the fish, but he chose not to. How is it hard to believe that Ugin could have destroyed the Titans?
Is it just me or should approximately every 4th story have Ugin rebuking some random Planeswalker of the week for all the missteps he/she took over the past few stories? I really find myself enjoying the story whenever he shows up and chews somebody out. Well composed insults, arrogant, dismissive attitude, and vague, impending sense of doom from shortsighted actions of short lived PWs (from a millenias old dragon's perspective) really do it for me. And I really like how he basically stated "You young'uns just threw one hell of a party, got out of control, made a huge mess, and none of you will stick around to help me clean up after you. Thanks for that."
The idea that the destruction of two of the titans might have a ripple effect across the multiverse is an interesting one, certainly. This is not exactly an original idea - comparing the MtG storyline to classic comic stories which clearly inspire the MtG stuff, Marvel stories back in the 80s dealt with the role Galactus plays in the bigger scheme of things, and why just destroying him is not an option - but it does call to question what this might mean to future stories. Will the two destroyed titans be replaced by new, slightly different versions (ala what happens when one of the Endless dies in SANDMAN), or will they be replaced by something entirely different, and perhaps much more powerful, difficult to defeat or downright malevolent? Maybe we'll find out someday.
The exchanges between the Gatewatch members were kinda goofy at times, but in a somewhat charming way. I'm again reminded of classic Avengers/JLA/Legion of Super-Heroes stories. People keep going with the Avengers metaphor, but in some ways I get more of a Justice League vibe from this team. Jace is the mysterious smart guy ala Batman, while Gideon is not a bad stand-in for Superman, both in terms of his combat power, nigh-invulnerability and moral perspective.