the fate of the titans has been revealed in the cards Bonds of Mortality and Fall of the Titans. it's also in the fatpack booklet and Art of Zendikar book, which i totally love.
Oh, really ?!
I do not want to sound rude, but do you think that anyone discussing the story here has not noticed? There are several pages in each thread discussing Bonds/Fall, the Art Book and this event for THREE WEEKS now.
Many of the people just await the exact fate to be stated, because almost nobody believes the Titans have been killed in the sense of destroyed forever.
in case you have not noticed, it was a response to Jenrik.
I'm waiting to see what becomes of the titans. Perhaps they're merely driven off Zendikar. But I can't imagine how these of all villains would be defeated outright like this.
it's clearly stated in the three sources (cards, fatpack booklet and book) that they were not driven away. i found it odd that he apparently thinks differently, so i thought maybe Jenrik - not you - needed a friendly reminder.
but neither do i believe they were permanently destroyed. my feeling is that they would simply regenerate in the Blind Eternities, though it may take many years, if not centuries. or that there are actually many more titans, possibly dormant in the Aether, waiting to replace their fallen kind.
Ok, sorry for my reaction. Bad start of the day ;-)
Going back to the topic, I read the recent article again today, and I am starting to be seriously disgusted by Wyatt's treatment of Chandra here. In the vacuum, her quote on the card was really cool, with the perfect Chandra dose of defiance to commit and cockiness.
In the article, he managed to flip it 180 degrees and let it come through as almost more pathetic than Gideon's. The fact that she was DABBLING her eyes afterwards was just the bitter cherry on the cake.
For an allegedly renowned and experienced author, James Wyatt still have to amaze me. His writing seems to be strangely incompatible with the Magic characters, at least for me.
it's clearly stated in the three sources (cards, fatpack booklet and book) that they were not driven away. i found it odd that he apparently thinks differently, so i thought maybe Jenrik - not you - needed a friendly reminder.
but neither do i believe they were permanently destroyed. my feeling is that they would simply regenerate in the Blind Eternities, though it may take many years, if not centuries. or that there are actually many more titans, possibly dormant in the Aether, waiting to replace their fallen kind.
I think the issue is that the BFZ material was vague and slightly misleading. The Fat Pack Booklet specifically said that Gideon and the army charged Ulamog when captured... but that obviously didn't happen. So people are justifiably skeptical that the current summaries accurately reflect exactly how things play out.
I don't think the story summaries we're looking at are going to contain much nuance.
While the rest of my post was snarky, my criticism of the author making the allusion was genuine. My intent was not to be dismissive, and I apologize for coming off that way.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
I am disappointed that the last chapter was short. I was hoping for more, not just the oaths. I guess that's what you'd expect from a chapter named "Oath of the Gatewatch".
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Modern
Competitive: GW Hatebears - UG Infect - BGW Liege Rhino
Casual: GR Titan Ramp - BR Aggro
WIP: BUW Control Mill
Probably the worst UR I have read so far. Not only was it so poorly written, but it just a waste of time. I also would have thought the Oath would have come AFTER they defeated the Titans, not before. *shrugs* I am going to go reread the Tazri UR again to get the bad taste out of my mouth.
So, this might come off as an unfocused rant, but I'll try to keep my thoughts at least somewhat orderly.
I read this article again, and it was even more irritating than the first time I read it. Before I get into the meat of my complaint, one minor thing that annoyed me--when Gideon says the word 'committed', Chandra winces. Because, you know, that's what a human being would do in that circumstance. I get that the author's trying to play up Chandra's hatred of being pinned down, but this made her seem more like a caricature than a living, breathing person. Maybe I'm just spoiled from Agents of Artifice and The Purifying Fire portraying Jace and Chandra as more than 2 dimensional characters.
However, the biggest complaint I have is that I think Wizards set this moment up horribly, and I think that's for two separate but related reasons: 1)Chandra entering the picture isn't actually that impactful because her powerset, while impressive, doesn't actually add anything new to the Gatewatch's roster, and 2)The planeswalkers were already working together. I'll address these in reverse order.
Usually in stories like this, we're shown the characters trying to hack it on their own or disagreeing and not working together first, so that their team-up is not only emotionally impactful, but also practical. I'll use a movie I despise, The Avengers, for an example, since that is clearly what WotC is trying to emulate: Before our ragtag bunch of heroes form their team, they're bickering and at times actively working against each other out of spite. Tony Stark is snarking off to everyone and arguing with Captain America, while also intentionally needling Bruce Banner, trying to provoke the Hulk for some reason. They aren't a team. And their unwillingness to work together is something that can be exploited and used against them. While I might think that the conflict the writers made for this particular movie was shallow, the individual members of the Avengers having a conflict ends up making their decision to make a team all the more impactful. Ostensibly, this is what is going to happen in Batman vs. Superman as well--the heroes spend the movie fighting, so that when they team up, it means more.
This doesn't happen here.
At most we get the scene of the planeswalkers bickering in Hedron Alignment, but after that, Kiora leaves and Nissa, Jace, and Gideon work together swimmingly. They have zero problems with working together and it goes fine. They only fail because of something they couldn't possibly have seen coming. In short, they do not fail because of a lack of teamwork, and that is the problem with this whole scene. The Oath of the Gatewatch isn't our planeswalkers finally deciding to team up against the horrors they're facing--they were already doing that, and this robs the scene of a lot of gravitas it could have had.
The fact that Wizards didn't do this robs the scene of emotional impact, but it is also robbed of practical meaning because not only are they not gaining "the power of friendship" in this scene, they're also just getting Chandra's powers as an addition. And while she's a powerful pyromancer, it's not like their problem against the Eldrazi was that they needed more fire. They had four planeswalkers and an entire army against one Eldrazi Titan, and they only barely trapped it. Now they have four planeswalkers and a scattered, broken army against TWO Eldrazi Titans, so the odds are worse than they ever were before, and because they were already working together, the cheesy 'power of friendship' logic doesn't even work here. If Chandra's powers were a game-changer, like if Nahiri or someone were to be the fourth member of the Gatewatch, it'd make more sense that they're more optimistic now. I have a separate rant about why the story would have been better if it was Jace who didn't immediately come with Gideon, and Chandra instead was the one to immediately go to Zendikar, because getting Jace's powers for the first time now would be much more impactful, but that'd just result in me rambling more.
So, this might come off as an unfocused rant, but I'll try to keep my thoughts at least somewhat orderly.
I read this article again, and it was even more irritating than the first time I read it. Before I get into the meat of my complaint, one minor thing that annoyed me--when Gideon says the word 'committed', Chandra winces. Because, you know, that's what a human being would do in that circumstance. I get that the author's trying to play up Chandra's hatred of being pinned down, but this made her seem more like a caricature than a living, breathing person. Maybe I'm just spoiled from Agents of Artifice and The Purifying Fire portraying Jace and Chandra as more than 2 dimensional characters.
However, the biggest complaint I have is that I think Wizards set this moment up horribly, and I think that's for two separate but related reasons: 1)Chandra entering the picture isn't actually that impactful because her powerset, while impressive, doesn't actually add anything new to the Gatewatch's roster, and 2)The planeswalkers were already working together. I'll address these in reverse order.
Usually in stories like this, we're shown the characters trying to hack it on their own or disagreeing and not working together first, so that their team-up is not only emotionally impactful, but also practical. I'll use a movie I despise, The Avengers, for an example, since that is clearly what WotC is trying to emulate: Before our ragtag bunch of heroes form their team, they're bickering and at times actively working against each other out of spite. Tony Stark is snarking off to everyone and arguing with Captain America, while also intentionally needling Bruce Banner, trying to provoke the Hulk for some reason. They aren't a team. And their unwillingness to work together is something that can be exploited and used against them. While I might think that the conflict the writers made for this particular movie was shallow, the individual members of the Avengers having a conflict ends up making their decision to make a team all the more impactful. Ostensibly, this is what is going to happen in Batman vs. Superman as well--the heroes spend the movie fighting, so that when they team up, it means more.
This doesn't happen here.
At most we get the scene of the planeswalkers bickering in Hedron Alignment, but after that, Kiora leaves and Nissa, Jace, and Gideon work together swimmingly. They have zero problems with working together and it goes fine. They only fail because of something they couldn't possibly have seen coming. In short, they do not fail because of a lack of teamwork, and that is the problem with this whole scene. The Oath of the Gatewatch isn't our planeswalkers finally deciding to team up against the horrors they're facing--they were already doing that, and this robs the scene of a lot of gravitas it could have had.
The fact that Wizards didn't do this robs the scene of emotional impact, but it is also robbed of practical meaning because not only are they not gaining "the power of friendship" in this scene, they're also just getting Chandra's powers as an addition. And while she's a powerful pyromancer, it's not like their problem against the Eldrazi was that they needed more fire. They had four planeswalkers and an entire army against one Eldrazi Titan, and they only barely trapped it. Now they have four planeswalkers and a scattered, broken army against TWO Eldrazi Titans, so the odds are worse than they ever were before, and because they were already working together, the cheesy 'power of friendship' logic doesn't even work here. If Chandra's powers were a game-changer, like if Nahiri or someone were to be the fourth member of the Gatewatch, it'd make more sense that they're more optimistic now. I have a separate rant about why the story would have been better if it was Jace who didn't immediately come with Gideon, and Chandra instead was the one to immediately go to Zendikar, because getting Jace's powers for the first time now would be much more impactful, but that'd just result in me rambling more.
1. Even though I enjoy the Avengers, I agree with you for the most part.
2. Let's see this rant about Chandra instead of Jace.
So, this might come off as an unfocused rant, but I'll try to keep my thoughts at least somewhat orderly.
I read this article again, and it was even more irritating than the first time I read it. Before I get into the meat of my complaint, one minor thing that annoyed me--when Gideon says the word 'committed', Chandra winces. Because, you know, that's what a human being would do in that circumstance. I get that the author's trying to play up Chandra's hatred of being pinned down, but this made her seem more like a caricature than a living, breathing person. Maybe I'm just spoiled from Agents of Artifice and The Purifying Fire portraying Jace and Chandra as more than 2 dimensional characters.
However, the biggest complaint I have is that I think Wizards set this moment up horribly, and I think that's for two separate but related reasons: 1)Chandra entering the picture isn't actually that impactful because her powerset, while impressive, doesn't actually add anything new to the Gatewatch's roster, and 2)The planeswalkers were already working together. I'll address these in reverse order.
Usually in stories like this, we're shown the characters trying to hack it on their own or disagreeing and not working together first, so that their team-up is not only emotionally impactful, but also practical. I'll use a movie I despise, The Avengers, for an example, since that is clearly what WotC is trying to emulate: Before our ragtag bunch of heroes form their team, they're bickering and at times actively working against each other out of spite. Tony Stark is snarking off to everyone and arguing with Captain America, while also intentionally needling Bruce Banner, trying to provoke the Hulk for some reason. They aren't a team. And their unwillingness to work together is something that can be exploited and used against them. While I might think that the conflict the writers made for this particular movie was shallow, the individual members of the Avengers having a conflict ends up making their decision to make a team all the more impactful. Ostensibly, this is what is going to happen in Batman vs. Superman as well--the heroes spend the movie fighting, so that when they team up, it means more.
This doesn't happen here.
At most we get the scene of the planeswalkers bickering in Hedron Alignment, but after that, Kiora leaves and Nissa, Jace, and Gideon work together swimmingly. They have zero problems with working together and it goes fine. They only fail because of something they couldn't possibly have seen coming. In short, they do not fail because of a lack of teamwork, and that is the problem with this whole scene. The Oath of the Gatewatch isn't our planeswalkers finally deciding to team up against the horrors they're facing--they were already doing that, and this robs the scene of a lot of gravitas it could have had.
The fact that Wizards didn't do this robs the scene of emotional impact, but it is also robbed of practical meaning because not only are they not gaining "the power of friendship" in this scene, they're also just getting Chandra's powers as an addition. And while she's a powerful pyromancer, it's not like their problem against the Eldrazi was that they needed more fire. They had four planeswalkers and an entire army against one Eldrazi Titan, and they only barely trapped it. Now they have four planeswalkers and a scattered, broken army against TWO Eldrazi Titans, so the odds are worse than they ever were before, and because they were already working together, the cheesy 'power of friendship' logic doesn't even work here. If Chandra's powers were a game-changer, like if Nahiri or someone were to be the fourth member of the Gatewatch, it'd make more sense that they're more optimistic now. I have a separate rant about why the story would have been better if it was Jace who didn't immediately come with Gideon, and Chandra instead was the one to immediately go to Zendikar, because getting Jace's powers for the first time now would be much more impactful, but that'd just result in me rambling more.
Agreed, though I agree with an earlier poster that the taking of Oaths would have also worked if they did so after defeating the Titans. Like, they come together an win with the power of teamwork, but while gazing off into the distance at the world they saved Jace (or Ugin, sweeping in to rain on their parade) brings up the possibility that the Titans aren't really defeated, or that Emrakul is still out there (or both), and the heroes debate what should be done, and whether its even their job. Chandra would have a legit reason to want to bugger off, as she only signed up to help because of the role she played in setting the Eldrazi free, leaving her personally invested in Zendikar's fate, and now that its saved she feels her duty is over. Nissa would feel that she is needed to rebuild Zendikar, and Jace would feel he is needed back on Ravnica, because like Chandra he only signed up to atone for his complicity in the mess on Zen. Only then would Gideon agree that he too has commitments on Ravnica, and that he too has a homeworld (Theros) that he cares about, which is why he thinks they should stay together as a superhero team, because not only would they be more effective at protecting their own homes that way, but there are planes out there without self designated guardians. He can make many of the same arguments he did in this UR, except they would carry more weight. Saying that together you can accomplish anything is much more meaningful AFTER you just took down two cosmic horror titans that even old walkers couldn't handle, because of course you'd feel that way after that!
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Agreed, though I agree with an earlier poster that the taking of Oaths would have also worked if they did so after defeating the Titans. Like, they come together an win with the power of teamwork, but while gazing off into the distance at the world they saved Jace (or Ugin, sweeping in to rain on their parade) brings up the possibility that the Titans aren't really defeated, or that Emrakul is still out there (or both), and the heroes debate what should be done, and whether its even their job. Chandra would have a legit reason to want to bugger off, as she only signed up to help because of the role she played in setting the Eldrazi free, leaving her personally invested in Zendikar's fate, and now that its saved she feels her duty is over. Nissa would feel that she is needed to rebuild Zendikar, and Jace would feel he is needed back on Ravnica, because like Chandra he only signed up to atone for his complicity in the mess on Zen. Only then would Gideon agree that he too has commitments on Ravnica, and that he too has a homeworld (Theros) that he cares about, which is why he thinks they should stay together as a superhero team, because not only would they be more effective at protecting their own homes that way, but there are planes out there without self designated guardians. He can make many of the same arguments he did in this UR, except they would carry more weight. Saying that together you can accomplish anything is much more meaningful AFTER you just took down two cosmic horror titans that even old walkers couldn't handle, because of course you'd feel that way after that!
People keep saying they think the Oaths should have been after the battle, and I feel like it kind of misses the intended point of the Oaths. I don't think either way is necessarily better or worse, but for the point they wanted to get across (and I don't think it's a bad one and is in fact a pretty meta one that I think it's interesting that they tackle), it only really makes sense to do it beforehand. It's an act of faith, trust in themselves and the others that they'll stay on a plane to fight a threat even against all odds. It isn't meant to be an "I told you we could do it, and we can keep doing it if we work together" type thing. That's perfectly fine, I think, but that isn't the story they want to tell, and I don't think the one they went with at its core as really any worse (and is again a more interesting angle in my opinion, why should planeswalkers stay on planes they think they know are doomed?). The characters don't know they're going to win yet, and instead of using the Oaths to solidify the strength of their teamwork, Wizards wanted to use the Oaths to to show their faith in each other and their willingness to put their lives on the line to prove it.
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They didn't care that he was the savior of Fort Keff, the great hunter of Ondu, the champion of Kabira. To them, he was just another piece of flesh, a thing with life to be drained away.
it's clearly stated in the three sources (cards, fatpack booklet and book) that they were not driven away. i found it odd that he apparently thinks differently, so i thought maybe Jenrik - not you - needed a friendly reminder.
but neither do i believe they were permanently destroyed. my feeling is that they would simply regenerate in the Blind Eternities, though it may take many years, if not centuries. or that there are actually many more titans, possibly dormant in the Aether, waiting to replace their fallen kind.
I think the issue is that the BFZ material was vague and slightly misleading. The Fat Pack Booklet specifically said that Gideon and the army charged Ulamog when captured... but that obviously didn't happen. So people are justifiably skeptical that the current summaries accurately reflect exactly how things play out.
I don't think the story summaries we're looking at are going to contain much nuance.
but the end of the two Titans is the consistent theme of the three sources. it's like asking three independent witnesses to describe what happened. all three say that the Titans were destroyed, but have a different story to tell.
or take for example history books. pick up 3 books by different authors and read about, say, the French Revolution. while all 3 may say something about the guillotine and executions, they will probably differ in mentioning which people were involved, highlight different events. one book will have details the other two will probably not.
in the case of MtG - the cards, fatpack and art book all tell the same story, but with different details. i do not think they contradict each other or mislead readers, but complement each other.
so maybe whoever wrote the Uncharted Realms story didn't include Gideon's charge, but the fatpack writer did. we do get a little clue on whether or not the charge did happen in At Any Cost. Ob Nix, upon seeing Ulamog trapped, commented that "the Zendikari might have actually been able to kill it." which probably means that after trapping Ulamog, Ob Nix saw that the Zendikari were preparing an assault, if not already in the process of doing it before he decided to "add a minor wrinkle to that plan."
so there's no real reason for me to doubt the destruction of the Titans... from the perspective of the PW's that is.
it's clearly stated in the three sources (cards, fatpack booklet and book) that they were not driven away. i found it odd that he apparently thinks differently, so i thought maybe Jenrik - not you - needed a friendly reminder.
but neither do i believe they were permanently destroyed. my feeling is that they would simply regenerate in the Blind Eternities, though it may take many years, if not centuries. or that there are actually many more titans, possibly dormant in the Aether, waiting to replace their fallen kind.
I think the issue is that the BFZ material was vague and slightly misleading. The Fat Pack Booklet specifically said that Gideon and the army charged Ulamog when captured... but that obviously didn't happen. So people are justifiably skeptical that the current summaries accurately reflect exactly how things play out.
I don't think the story summaries we're looking at are going to contain much nuance.
but the end of the two Titans is the consistent theme of the three sources. it's like asking three independent witnesses to describe what happened. all three say that the Titans were destroyed, but have a different story to tell.
or take for example history books. pick up 3 books by different authors and read about, say, the French Revolution. while all 3 may say something about the guillotine and executions, they will probably differ in mentioning which people were involved, highlight different events. one book will have details the other two will probably not.
in the case of MtG - the cards, fatpack and art book all tell the same story, but with different details. i do not think they contradict each other or mislead readers, but complement each other.
so maybe whoever wrote the Uncharted Realms story didn't include Gideon's charge, but the fatpack writer did. we do get a little clue on whether or not the charge did happen in At Any Cost. Ob Nix, upon seeing Ulamog trapped, commented that "the Zendikari might have actually been able to kill it." which probably means that after trapping Ulamog, Ob Nix saw that the Zendikari were preparing an assault, if not already in the process of doing it before he decided to "add a minor wrinkle to that plan."
so there's no real reason for me to doubt the destruction of the Titans... from the perspective of the PW's that is.
That last part is what people are caught up on. I don't think there are many people arguing that it won't even seem like they are destroyed. At most, the argument is that it will seem that way, but they aren't really dead, and that we'll only see their destruction from the third person limited POV of a walker, and not get it word of god confirmed in the recap.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
the fate of the titans has been revealed in the cards Bonds of Mortality and Fall of the Titans. it's also in the fatpack booklet and Art of Zendikar book, which i totally love.
Oh, really ?!
I do not want to sound rude, but do you think that anyone discussing the story here has not noticed? There are several pages in each thread discussing Bonds/Fall, the Art Book and this event for THREE WEEKS now.
Many of the people just await the exact fate to be stated, because almost nobody believes the Titans have been killed in the sense of destroyed forever.
in case you have not noticed, it was a response to Jenrik.
I'm waiting to see what becomes of the titans. Perhaps they're merely driven off Zendikar. But I can't imagine how these of all villains would be defeated outright like this.
it's clearly stated in the three sources (cards, fatpack booklet and book) that they were not driven away. i found it odd that he apparently thinks differently, so i thought maybe Jenrik - not you - needed a friendly reminder.
but neither do i believe they were permanently destroyed. my feeling is that they would simply regenerate in the Blind Eternities, though it may take many years, if not centuries. or that there are actually many more titans, possibly dormant in the Aether, waiting to replace their fallen kind.
Ok, sorry for my reaction. Bad start of the day ;-)
Don't be sorry. It was in fact a pretty ridiculous response that I rolled my eyes at but didn't bother responding to. Clearly I'm aware the titans are defeated. It's like you said - no one, including me, believes they can be taken down outright as we are presently lead to believe. So I want to read the details for myself, when the story arrives there. Until then, the Eldrazi was the last place I expected closure in the lore, and one of the only places were it would have been understandable to never have it.
So yeah. who cares what the cards or fatpack spoil? Not the point. I already know it and as the clues stand, it's not a good ending.
Meh, James Wyatt hasn't had a good UR in a long while and this one is no exception. Which is a shame as he can be very good as he has given us Alesha's and Tasigur's stories during Tarkir. Am I the only one irritated by the fact that he contradicts his own writing? He wrote the frigging bfz Artbook (which is amazing) and he states that Gideon challenged the others to leave like Kiora did or stay and fight. In here, Kiora has not even left yet! The last time the others saw her was when she was cast down by Kozilek.
2. Let's see this rant about Chandra instead of Jace.
So, I was trying to think of ways to make this storyline salvagable, and it occured to me that one basic thing that really could have made the plot feel a little better would be if, in some weird parallel Planar Chaos alternate hitory, Gideon had recruited Chandra and Jace had declined. This, while on topic, might stray a little from what this thread is intended for, so I'll just put it in spoiler tags so it takes up less room.
The main reason I think this is the case is because Jace's power set would open up more 'new' possibilities for the Gatewatch than Chandra's did. The characters even have motivations that would make sense for them to do so:
Chandra, wary of the responsibilties the monks are trying to push on her, jumps at the opportunity to go adventuring and battling on Zendikar with Gideon, who she may or may not have unresolved feelings towards, pressured a little bit by some guilt she could feel about what happened, though she might not want to admit that. She goes to Zendikar as she sees that as a more straightforward problem she can solve, and during the story she'd be forced to realize that the responsibility of saving an entire plane is far weightier than the lesser, more personal responsibility she fled on Regatha.
Jace, the newly made guildpact, feels tied down to his plane, and despite the fact that he'd want to go help Gideon, he would feel like he needed to stay because he doesn't know what will happen if he leaves the plane or dies.
Jace's main contribution pre-OGW was to help construct the Aligned Hedron Network, but from what I recall reading, that didn't require a ton of set up. Or if it did, it was communicated very poorly. But it's not like Jace specifically needed to be there for it. If the planeswalkers and another side character with knowledge of the hedrons--like Zada, Hedron Grinder or someone--cobbled together an imperfect Hedron Network that still managed to trap Ulamog that just barely did the job, it would feel much less out of the blue that Ob Nixilis was able to easily disrupt it and release Ulamog into the world. Especially if the characters mentioned how if someone had a better understanding of leylines, they could do more.
In this version of things, the proto-Gatewatch only has access to brute force in one way or another, through Gideon, Nissa, and Chandra, and that would be a nice mirror of Ulamog's primal, seemingly mindless power. But Kozilek would add a different, trickier dimension to the mix, and Jace joining the gang would be a nice counterbalance to Kozilek's powers.
Introducing Jace now would solve one of my major problems with the Gatewatch's forming--something meaningful would have changed for them. They would have an element that they had no access to before that could totally change the outlook of the fight--instead of trying to beat down the Eldrazi, which was impossible, they could now find a way to seal them more effectively. Jace's powers being added to the mix would be a dim, but persistent beacon of hope in the darkness we find ourselves in after Kozilek's Return, and would be a legitimate reason for the planeswalkers to think that they had a chance.
As is, however, nothing changed. They got Chandra, who doesn't add anything game-changing to the mix. She's strong sure and it's not like she adds nothing, but her appearance wouldn't inspire any sudden optimism. If it was Jace, it would. Even though the Gatewatch ends up in the same place no matter what route was taken, the story would just make more sense if Chandra and Jace had switched places. Jace figuring something new out with the leylines would be much more palatable if he'd just arrived and was working his leyline mojo for the first time. Jace opens new doors, Chandra is just more of the same. They'd be in the exact same place but the perception of things would be different, and that matters.
2. Let's see this rant about Chandra instead of Jace.
So, I was trying to think of ways to make this storyline salvagable, and it occured to me that one basic thing that really could have made the plot feel a little better would be if, in some weird parallel Planar Chaos alternate hitory, Gideon had recruited Chandra and Jace had declined. This, while on topic, might stray a little from what this thread is intended for, so I'll just put it in spoiler tags so it takes up less room.
The main reason I think this is the case is because Jace's power set would open up more 'new' possibilities for the Gatewatch than Chandra's did. The characters even have motivations that would make sense for them to do so:
Chandra, wary of the responsibilties the monks are trying to push on her, jumps at the opportunity to go adventuring and battling on Zendikar with Gideon, who she may or may not have unresolved feelings towards, pressured a little bit by some guilt she could feel about what happened, though she might not want to admit that. She goes to Zendikar as she sees that as a more straightforward problem she can solve, and during the story she'd be forced to realize that the responsibility of saving an entire plane is far weightier than the lesser, more personal responsibility she fled on Regatha.
Jace, the newly made guildpact, feels tied down to his plane, and despite the fact that he'd want to go help Gideon, he would feel like he needed to stay because he doesn't know what will happen if he leaves the plane or dies.
Jace's main contribution pre-OGW was to help construct the Aligned Hedron Network, but from what I recall reading, that didn't require a ton of set up. Or if it did, it was communicated very poorly. But it's not like Jace specifically needed to be there for it. If the planeswalkers and another side character with knowledge of the hedrons--like Zada, Hedron Grinder or someone--cobbled together an imperfect Hedron Network that still managed to trap Ulamog that just barely did the job, it would feel much less out of the blue that Ob Nixilis was able to easily disrupt it and release Ulamog into the world. Especially if the characters mentioned how if someone had a better understanding of leylines, they could do more.
In this version of things, the proto-Gatewatch only has access to brute force in one way or another, through Gideon, Nissa, and Chandra, and that would be a nice mirror of Ulamog's primal, seemingly mindless power. But Kozilek would add a different, trickier dimension to the mix, and Jace joining the gang would be a nice counterbalance to Kozilek's powers.
Introducing Jace now would solve one of my major problems with the Gatewatch's forming--something meaningful would have changed for them. They would have an element that they had no access to before that could totally change the outlook of the fight--instead of trying to beat down the Eldrazi, which was impossible, they could now find a way to seal them more effectively. Jace's powers being added to the mix would be a dim, but persistent beacon of hope in the darkness we find ourselves in after Kozilek's Return, and would be a legitimate reason for the planeswalkers to think that they had a chance.
As is, however, nothing changed. They got Chandra, who doesn't add anything game-changing to the mix. She's strong sure and it's not like she adds nothing, but her appearance wouldn't inspire any sudden optimism. If it was Jace, it would. Even though the Gatewatch ends up in the same place no matter what route was taken, the story would just make more sense if Chandra and Jace had switched places. Jace figuring something new out with the leylines would be much more palatable if he'd just arrived and was working his leyline mojo for the first time. Jace opens new doors, Chandra is just more of the same. They'd be in the exact same place but the perception of things would be different, and that matters.
Yeah that's cool. I could see Jace declining and going with Lili for a while too.
Meh, James Wyatt hasn't had a good UR in a long while and this one is no exception. Which is a shame as he can be very good as he has given us Alesha's and Tasigur's stories during Tarkir. Am I the only one irritated by the fact that he contradicts his own writing? He wrote the frigging bfz Artbook (which is amazing) and he states that Gideon challenged the others to leave like Kiora did or stay and fight. In here, Kiora has not even left yet! The last time the others saw her was when she was cast down by Kozilek.
The very fact that Kiora appeared in last week's story and was planning on continuing the fight against the titans was a big surprise to me after reading the art book. It's possible that the folks at Wizards were once again surprised by Kiora's popularity and decided not to have her look like such a coward, and that, given the fact that she was missing, they'll just explain later on that the rest of the walkers just assumed that she had left because of Kozilek's return and they hadn't seen her anywhere since.
Or it's possible that they just didn't plan out the correct order of these stories, and Kiora will yet flee in despair, as described in the book. But it would seem like kind of a poor storytelling rehash if they had her just gather sea monsters and the ocean again for another failed attempt at the titans, even if it were part of a larger story.
Meh, James Wyatt hasn't had a good UR in a long while and this one is no exception. Which is a shame as he can be very good as he has given us Alesha's and Tasigur's stories during Tarkir. Am I the only one irritated by the fact that he contradicts his own writing? He wrote the frigging bfz Artbook (which is amazing) and he states that Gideon challenged the others to leave like Kiora did or stay and fight. In here, Kiora has not even left yet! The last time the others saw her was when she was cast down by Kozilek.
The very fact that Kiora appeared in last week's story and was planning on continuing the fight against the titans was a big surprise to me after reading the art book. It's possible that the folks at Wizards were once again surprised by Kiora's popularity and decided not to have her look like such a coward, and that, given the fact that she was missing, they'll just explain later on that the rest of the walkers just assumed that she had left because of Kozilek's return and they hadn't seen her anywhere since.
Or it's possible that they just didn't plan out the correct order of these stories, and Kiora will yet flee in despair, as described in the book. But it would seem like kind of a poor storytelling rehash if they had her just gather sea monsters and the ocean again for another failed attempt at the titans, even if it were part of a larger story.
Some of us had been theorizing her sister might have died during the battle, so that could still be the final straw for her.
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"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Meh, James Wyatt hasn't had a good UR in a long while and this one is no exception. Which is a shame as he can be very good as he has given us Alesha's and Tasigur's stories during Tarkir. Am I the only one irritated by the fact that he contradicts his own writing? He wrote the frigging bfz Artbook (which is amazing) and he states that Gideon challenged the others to leave like Kiora did or stay and fight. In here, Kiora has not even left yet! The last time the others saw her was when she was cast down by Kozilek.
The very fact that Kiora appeared in last week's story and was planning on continuing the fight against the titans was a big surprise to me after reading the art book. It's possible that the folks at Wizards were once again surprised by Kiora's popularity and decided not to have her look like such a coward, and that, given the fact that she was missing, they'll just explain later on that the rest of the walkers just assumed that she had left because of Kozilek's return and they hadn't seen her anywhere since.
Or it's possible that they just didn't plan out the correct order of these stories, and Kiora will yet flee in despair, as described in the book. But it would seem like kind of a poor storytelling rehash if they had her just gather sea monsters and the ocean again for another failed attempt at the titans, even if it were part of a larger story.
Yeah, I figure your point about them assuming she left after being bested by Kozilek could be valid. Still, Gideon made no mention of her at all, and it bothered me that the Oaths were not a magically-binding contract, either.
That said, I do believe she will depart the plane in despair with the loss of her sister - if creative still has her departing at all. If not, she could stay and fight I suppose. The goal is to have Kiora end up somewhere that she still has a relevant story in future sets. Departing in despair and having much to learn about herself and her god-weapon leaves room open for her to explore. We don't see her taking down the titans with the Gatewatch, and we know she doesn't swear an oath with them either. So I suspect she'll discover the loss of her sister, depart, and Gideon will challenge the Gatewatch to leave like her or enter the final battle. They enter, and win it. Or "win" it. As we saw.
Kiora not taking an oath, defeating the titans and leaving (which doesn't make sense as not art demonstrates her staying) leaves her story in a dead end.
Meh, James Wyatt hasn't had a good UR in a long while and this one is no exception. Which is a shame as he can be very good as he has given us Alesha's and Tasigur's stories during Tarkir. Am I the only one irritated by the fact that he contradicts his own writing? He wrote the frigging bfz Artbook (which is amazing) and he states that Gideon challenged the others to leave like Kiora did or stay and fight. In here, Kiora has not even left yet! The last time the others saw her was when she was cast down by Kozilek.
The very fact that Kiora appeared in last week's story and was planning on continuing the fight against the titans was a big surprise to me after reading the art book. It's possible that the folks at Wizards were once again surprised by Kiora's popularity and decided not to have her look like such a coward, and that, given the fact that she was missing, they'll just explain later on that the rest of the walkers just assumed that she had left because of Kozilek's return and they hadn't seen her anywhere since.
Or it's possible that they just didn't plan out the correct order of these stories, and Kiora will yet flee in despair, as described in the book. But it would seem like kind of a poor storytelling rehash if they had her just gather sea monsters and the ocean again for another failed attempt at the titans, even if it were part of a larger story.
Yeah, I figure your point about them assuming she left after being bested by Kozilek could be valid. Still, Gideon made no mention of her at all, and it bothered me that the Oaths were not a magically-binding contract, either.
That said, I do believe she will depart the plane in despair with the loss of her sister - if creative still has her departing at all. If not, she could stay and fight I suppose. The goal is to have Kiora end up somewhere that she still has a relevant story in future sets. Departing in despair and having much to learn about herself and her god-weapon leaves room open for her to explore. We don't see her taking down the titans with the Gatewatch, and we know she doesn't swear an oath with them either. So I suspect she'll discover the loss of her sister, depart, and Gideon will challenge the Gatewatch to leave like her or enter the final battle. They enter, and win it. Or "win" it. As we saw.
Kiora not taking an oath, defeating the titans and leaving (which doesn't make sense as not art demonstrates her staying) leaves her story in a dead end.
I agree about the contracts. One thing I liked about the oldwalker group was that the Eye of Ugin also had a magical power that one of the three planeswalkers could go there and message the rest no matter the plane they were on. Although it didn't do much, it was pretty cool.
I really feel compelled here to say that the Oaths have far less to do with teamwork than what people here are assuming. The whole point of the story and the Oaths is to vow to fight, even though they are the ones most capable of running. Even though they can just walk away and never return.
"As Zendikar has bled, so will innistrad. As I have wept, so will Sorin."
-Nahiri
The very name of the card using Distortion suggests Kozilek lives. The flavor text, above, suggests Zendikar is gone and Sorin's Innistrad is next. The artwork on the card heavily suggests Kozilek or his brood as well.
So, should all this be true... Goodbye Zendikar, and thanks for all the fish!
"As Zendikar has bled, so will innistrad. As I have wept, so will Sorin."
-Nahiri
The very name of the card using Distortion suggests Kozilek lives. The flavor text, above, suggests Zendikar is gone and Sorin's Innistrad is next. The artwork on the card heavily suggests Kozilek or his brood as well.
So, should all this be true... Goodbye Zendikar, and thanks for all the fish!
......your conclusion is fallible.
Just because Cosi is the Titan of Distortion and a card used the word distortion in it's name doesn't mean anything.
Further, If the point of the new Storyline model is so that all players pretty much understand what is happening, it would be clumsy of them to have the entire OGW set lead people to believe Jace and them won if they really lost. You don't have an Entire plane die using cards like "Zendikar Resurgent"
If you are a troll.....I guess I bit.
If you aren't a troll, well there's nothing I can suggest to make this easier. Note that I have also made spurious speculations as well but your argument is far from sound and belongs in baseless Spec. With all due respect.
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Wizards. listen. The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
The very name of the card using Distortion suggests Kozilek lives.
WELL, let me tell you a thing or two about wordage. Just because someone uses a certain word doesn't mean they're trying to infer a specific thing. We've had cards before that reference distortion (Ray of Distortion, Temporal Distortion, Wall of Distortion) that have nothing to do w/ eldrazi. One of them is even white, like Nahiri's character. Distortion, as a general thing, is the alteration of the original shape of something, like metal, wavelengths, or, in this case, stone. Stone, eh? I wonder who's magic is pretty tied into stone manipulation....
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Ok, sorry for my reaction. Bad start of the day ;-)
Going back to the topic, I read the recent article again today, and I am starting to be seriously disgusted by Wyatt's treatment of Chandra here. In the vacuum, her quote on the card was really cool, with the perfect Chandra dose of defiance to commit and cockiness.
In the article, he managed to flip it 180 degrees and let it come through as almost more pathetic than Gideon's. The fact that she was DABBLING her eyes afterwards was just the bitter cherry on the cake.
For an allegedly renowned and experienced author, James Wyatt still have to amaze me. His writing seems to be strangely incompatible with the Magic characters, at least for me.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
I don't think the story summaries we're looking at are going to contain much nuance.
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Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
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I read this article again, and it was even more irritating than the first time I read it. Before I get into the meat of my complaint, one minor thing that annoyed me--when Gideon says the word 'committed', Chandra winces. Because, you know, that's what a human being would do in that circumstance. I get that the author's trying to play up Chandra's hatred of being pinned down, but this made her seem more like a caricature than a living, breathing person. Maybe I'm just spoiled from Agents of Artifice and The Purifying Fire portraying Jace and Chandra as more than 2 dimensional characters.
However, the biggest complaint I have is that I think Wizards set this moment up horribly, and I think that's for two separate but related reasons: 1)Chandra entering the picture isn't actually that impactful because her powerset, while impressive, doesn't actually add anything new to the Gatewatch's roster, and 2)The planeswalkers were already working together. I'll address these in reverse order.
Usually in stories like this, we're shown the characters trying to hack it on their own or disagreeing and not working together first, so that their team-up is not only emotionally impactful, but also practical. I'll use a movie I despise, The Avengers, for an example, since that is clearly what WotC is trying to emulate: Before our ragtag bunch of heroes form their team, they're bickering and at times actively working against each other out of spite. Tony Stark is snarking off to everyone and arguing with Captain America, while also intentionally needling Bruce Banner, trying to provoke the Hulk for some reason. They aren't a team. And their unwillingness to work together is something that can be exploited and used against them. While I might think that the conflict the writers made for this particular movie was shallow, the individual members of the Avengers having a conflict ends up making their decision to make a team all the more impactful. Ostensibly, this is what is going to happen in Batman vs. Superman as well--the heroes spend the movie fighting, so that when they team up, it means more.
This doesn't happen here.
At most we get the scene of the planeswalkers bickering in Hedron Alignment, but after that, Kiora leaves and Nissa, Jace, and Gideon work together swimmingly. They have zero problems with working together and it goes fine. They only fail because of something they couldn't possibly have seen coming. In short, they do not fail because of a lack of teamwork, and that is the problem with this whole scene. The Oath of the Gatewatch isn't our planeswalkers finally deciding to team up against the horrors they're facing--they were already doing that, and this robs the scene of a lot of gravitas it could have had.
The fact that Wizards didn't do this robs the scene of emotional impact, but it is also robbed of practical meaning because not only are they not gaining "the power of friendship" in this scene, they're also just getting Chandra's powers as an addition. And while she's a powerful pyromancer, it's not like their problem against the Eldrazi was that they needed more fire. They had four planeswalkers and an entire army against one Eldrazi Titan, and they only barely trapped it. Now they have four planeswalkers and a scattered, broken army against TWO Eldrazi Titans, so the odds are worse than they ever were before, and because they were already working together, the cheesy 'power of friendship' logic doesn't even work here. If Chandra's powers were a game-changer, like if Nahiri or someone were to be the fourth member of the Gatewatch, it'd make more sense that they're more optimistic now. I have a separate rant about why the story would have been better if it was Jace who didn't immediately come with Gideon, and Chandra instead was the one to immediately go to Zendikar, because getting Jace's powers for the first time now would be much more impactful, but that'd just result in me rambling more.
1. Even though I enjoy the Avengers, I agree with you for the most part.
2. Let's see this rant about Chandra instead of Jace.
Agreed, though I agree with an earlier poster that the taking of Oaths would have also worked if they did so after defeating the Titans. Like, they come together an win with the power of teamwork, but while gazing off into the distance at the world they saved Jace (or Ugin, sweeping in to rain on their parade) brings up the possibility that the Titans aren't really defeated, or that Emrakul is still out there (or both), and the heroes debate what should be done, and whether its even their job. Chandra would have a legit reason to want to bugger off, as she only signed up to help because of the role she played in setting the Eldrazi free, leaving her personally invested in Zendikar's fate, and now that its saved she feels her duty is over. Nissa would feel that she is needed to rebuild Zendikar, and Jace would feel he is needed back on Ravnica, because like Chandra he only signed up to atone for his complicity in the mess on Zen. Only then would Gideon agree that he too has commitments on Ravnica, and that he too has a homeworld (Theros) that he cares about, which is why he thinks they should stay together as a superhero team, because not only would they be more effective at protecting their own homes that way, but there are planes out there without self designated guardians. He can make many of the same arguments he did in this UR, except they would carry more weight. Saying that together you can accomplish anything is much more meaningful AFTER you just took down two cosmic horror titans that even old walkers couldn't handle, because of course you'd feel that way after that!
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
People keep saying they think the Oaths should have been after the battle, and I feel like it kind of misses the intended point of the Oaths. I don't think either way is necessarily better or worse, but for the point they wanted to get across (and I don't think it's a bad one and is in fact a pretty meta one that I think it's interesting that they tackle), it only really makes sense to do it beforehand. It's an act of faith, trust in themselves and the others that they'll stay on a plane to fight a threat even against all odds. It isn't meant to be an "I told you we could do it, and we can keep doing it if we work together" type thing. That's perfectly fine, I think, but that isn't the story they want to tell, and I don't think the one they went with at its core as really any worse (and is again a more interesting angle in my opinion, why should planeswalkers stay on planes they think they know are doomed?). The characters don't know they're going to win yet, and instead of using the Oaths to solidify the strength of their teamwork, Wizards wanted to use the Oaths to to show their faith in each other and their willingness to put their lives on the line to prove it.
But the people behind the barrier knew.
it's ok. everyone experiences that at least once in their lifetimes.
but the end of the two Titans is the consistent theme of the three sources. it's like asking three independent witnesses to describe what happened. all three say that the Titans were destroyed, but have a different story to tell.
or take for example history books. pick up 3 books by different authors and read about, say, the French Revolution. while all 3 may say something about the guillotine and executions, they will probably differ in mentioning which people were involved, highlight different events. one book will have details the other two will probably not.
in the case of MtG - the cards, fatpack and art book all tell the same story, but with different details. i do not think they contradict each other or mislead readers, but complement each other.
so maybe whoever wrote the Uncharted Realms story didn't include Gideon's charge, but the fatpack writer did. we do get a little clue on whether or not the charge did happen in At Any Cost. Ob Nix, upon seeing Ulamog trapped, commented that "the Zendikari might have actually been able to kill it." which probably means that after trapping Ulamog, Ob Nix saw that the Zendikari were preparing an assault, if not already in the process of doing it before he decided to "add a minor wrinkle to that plan."
so there's no real reason for me to doubt the destruction of the Titans... from the perspective of the PW's that is.
That last part is what people are caught up on. I don't think there are many people arguing that it won't even seem like they are destroyed. At most, the argument is that it will seem that way, but they aren't really dead, and that we'll only see their destruction from the third person limited POV of a walker, and not get it word of god confirmed in the recap.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Don't be sorry. It was in fact a pretty ridiculous response that I rolled my eyes at but didn't bother responding to. Clearly I'm aware the titans are defeated. It's like you said - no one, including me, believes they can be taken down outright as we are presently lead to believe. So I want to read the details for myself, when the story arrives there. Until then, the Eldrazi was the last place I expected closure in the lore, and one of the only places were it would have been understandable to never have it.
So yeah. who cares what the cards or fatpack spoil? Not the point. I already know it and as the clues stand, it's not a good ending.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
UBarrin, Master WizardU
USticher GeralfU
UIxidor, Reality SculptorU
UWNoyan Dar, Roil ShaperUW
So, I was trying to think of ways to make this storyline salvagable, and it occured to me that one basic thing that really could have made the plot feel a little better would be if, in some weird parallel Planar Chaos alternate hitory, Gideon had recruited Chandra and Jace had declined. This, while on topic, might stray a little from what this thread is intended for, so I'll just put it in spoiler tags so it takes up less room.
Chandra, wary of the responsibilties the monks are trying to push on her, jumps at the opportunity to go adventuring and battling on Zendikar with Gideon, who she may or may not have unresolved feelings towards, pressured a little bit by some guilt she could feel about what happened, though she might not want to admit that. She goes to Zendikar as she sees that as a more straightforward problem she can solve, and during the story she'd be forced to realize that the responsibility of saving an entire plane is far weightier than the lesser, more personal responsibility she fled on Regatha.
Jace, the newly made guildpact, feels tied down to his plane, and despite the fact that he'd want to go help Gideon, he would feel like he needed to stay because he doesn't know what will happen if he leaves the plane or dies.
Jace's main contribution pre-OGW was to help construct the Aligned Hedron Network, but from what I recall reading, that didn't require a ton of set up. Or if it did, it was communicated very poorly. But it's not like Jace specifically needed to be there for it. If the planeswalkers and another side character with knowledge of the hedrons--like Zada, Hedron Grinder or someone--cobbled together an imperfect Hedron Network that still managed to trap Ulamog that just barely did the job, it would feel much less out of the blue that Ob Nixilis was able to easily disrupt it and release Ulamog into the world. Especially if the characters mentioned how if someone had a better understanding of leylines, they could do more.
In this version of things, the proto-Gatewatch only has access to brute force in one way or another, through Gideon, Nissa, and Chandra, and that would be a nice mirror of Ulamog's primal, seemingly mindless power. But Kozilek would add a different, trickier dimension to the mix, and Jace joining the gang would be a nice counterbalance to Kozilek's powers.
Introducing Jace now would solve one of my major problems with the Gatewatch's forming--something meaningful would have changed for them. They would have an element that they had no access to before that could totally change the outlook of the fight--instead of trying to beat down the Eldrazi, which was impossible, they could now find a way to seal them more effectively. Jace's powers being added to the mix would be a dim, but persistent beacon of hope in the darkness we find ourselves in after Kozilek's Return, and would be a legitimate reason for the planeswalkers to think that they had a chance.
As is, however, nothing changed. They got Chandra, who doesn't add anything game-changing to the mix. She's strong sure and it's not like she adds nothing, but her appearance wouldn't inspire any sudden optimism. If it was Jace, it would. Even though the Gatewatch ends up in the same place no matter what route was taken, the story would just make more sense if Chandra and Jace had switched places. Jace figuring something new out with the leylines would be much more palatable if he'd just arrived and was working his leyline mojo for the first time. Jace opens new doors, Chandra is just more of the same. They'd be in the exact same place but the perception of things would be different, and that matters.
Yeah that's cool. I could see Jace declining and going with Lili for a while too.
The very fact that Kiora appeared in last week's story and was planning on continuing the fight against the titans was a big surprise to me after reading the art book. It's possible that the folks at Wizards were once again surprised by Kiora's popularity and decided not to have her look like such a coward, and that, given the fact that she was missing, they'll just explain later on that the rest of the walkers just assumed that she had left because of Kozilek's return and they hadn't seen her anywhere since.
Or it's possible that they just didn't plan out the correct order of these stories, and Kiora will yet flee in despair, as described in the book. But it would seem like kind of a poor storytelling rehash if they had her just gather sea monsters and the ocean again for another failed attempt at the titans, even if it were part of a larger story.
Some of us had been theorizing her sister might have died during the battle, so that could still be the final straw for her.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Yeah, I figure your point about them assuming she left after being bested by Kozilek could be valid. Still, Gideon made no mention of her at all, and it bothered me that the Oaths were not a magically-binding contract, either.
That said, I do believe she will depart the plane in despair with the loss of her sister - if creative still has her departing at all. If not, she could stay and fight I suppose. The goal is to have Kiora end up somewhere that she still has a relevant story in future sets. Departing in despair and having much to learn about herself and her god-weapon leaves room open for her to explore. We don't see her taking down the titans with the Gatewatch, and we know she doesn't swear an oath with them either. So I suspect she'll discover the loss of her sister, depart, and Gideon will challenge the Gatewatch to leave like her or enter the final battle. They enter, and win it. Or "win" it. As we saw.
Kiora not taking an oath, defeating the titans and leaving (which doesn't make sense as not art demonstrates her staying) leaves her story in a dead end.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I agree about the contracts. One thing I liked about the oldwalker group was that the Eye of Ugin also had a magical power that one of the three planeswalkers could go there and message the rest no matter the plane they were on. Although it didn't do much, it was pretty cool.
The card in question is Structural Distortion
"As Zendikar has bled, so will innistrad. As I have wept, so will Sorin."
-Nahiri
The very name of the card using Distortion suggests Kozilek lives. The flavor text, above, suggests Zendikar is gone and Sorin's Innistrad is next. The artwork on the card heavily suggests Kozilek or his brood as well.
So, should all this be true... Goodbye Zendikar, and thanks for all the fish!
......your conclusion is fallible.
Just because Cosi is the Titan of Distortion and a card used the word distortion in it's name doesn't mean anything.
Further, If the point of the new Storyline model is so that all players pretty much understand what is happening, it would be clumsy of them to have the entire OGW set lead people to believe Jace and them won if they really lost. You don't have an Entire plane die using cards like "Zendikar Resurgent"
If you are a troll.....I guess I bit.
If you aren't a troll, well there's nothing I can suggest to make this easier. Note that I have also made spurious speculations as well but your argument is far from sound and belongs in baseless Spec. With all due respect.
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
WELL, let me tell you a thing or two about wordage. Just because someone uses a certain word doesn't mean they're trying to infer a specific thing. We've had cards before that reference distortion (Ray of Distortion, Temporal Distortion, Wall of Distortion) that have nothing to do w/ eldrazi. One of them is even white, like Nahiri's character. Distortion, as a general thing, is the alteration of the original shape of something, like metal, wavelengths, or, in this case, stone. Stone, eh? I wonder who's magic is pretty tied into stone manipulation....
Decks:
Casual
R Burn R
EDH
R Godo Voltron R
RUG ETB Overload RUG
BW Clerics Pain and Drain BW
GW Spirits!!! GW
RUG Landfall Silliness RUG