Writing is an artform and profit should always be an afterthought for a writer.
You are a funny person.
But writing is an artform,are you guys really vorthos? Do you just accept whatever mediocre thing they give you? Ask for more.Ask for higher quality,I came here hoping to find people that want more from magic,instead I find indeference.This whole acceptance of passable.I enjoyed the current ur and hope it's uphill from here.
the message will be clear,they are a business and story will be dictated as such.
Yeah! That's why I only read books not written for profit like... uh... erotic fanfiction?
This is an unfair comparison. The Magic story does not exist for itself, it only exists in addition to the cards. Whether or not Zendikar survives is not a matter of what would make for a more compelling story, but of how much money a future revisit would make.
A story that itself is the product will usually go for whatever the reader wants/likes/enjoys or in other words, is willing to pay for. A story that is sold as a product will want to be as good as possible. Magic story doesn't have to be. It just needs to be good enough.
That was a nice analysis. Granted, my hatred of Kiora still knows no bounds but your explanation is a particularly good read.
Kelly Digges definitely knows how to spin a tale.
Thank you. And everyone who read as well. I wouldn't say I hate Kiora, but I will say her behavior on Theros and especially since Theros warranted this outcome for her. She wasn't altruistic about Zendikar so much as being defiant and a victim of her own hubris, especially when she planeswalked away with the Bident thinking she did anything but set herself up for repercussions. Kiora may be bitter (and rightfully so) regarding her faith being revealed as a sham, but that's simply Zendikar's truth, not that of all planes, or Theros. She became so self reliant, in fact, that she cast herself as a false god without realizing it. On Theros she took advantage of Thassa's absence and on Zendikar she styled herself as Cosi in her own deluded stories. So in reality, she told herself the same lie. Her using a blood-stained Bident was a nice artistic touch that's an insightful way or showing the legacy of loss Kiora has left behind with the object of all her arrogance. But what's sad about her is, where should her trust be, then? If not with gods, and not exclusively in herself, then what? That's her journey now.
I loved the scene of Ulamog and Kozilek converging before the attack on Lorthos. It further highlights the theme of natural vs. alien, plane vs. blind eternities. And it demonstrates how unique the spark is, to allow an individual to transverse a realm harsher than even tempestuous Zendikar.
For Lorthos, I believe he is dead. Summoning copies from the aether off other planes works, but I believe she cast the one and only original Lorthos off the same plane when the Bident allowed her to gather his essence. The idea that she didn't even dare or bother trying to command Lorthos before owning the Bident seems to confirm to me my theory that the reason she failed to make a bond with Arixmethes and control her own sea monsters (even those from foreign planes) against Thassa was because the Bident's influence on ocean animals is simply too powerful to overcome. The fact the Bident works on Zendikar at all confirms magic is essentially universal, which it would be.
As badly as I wanted an Arixmethes card ASAP, even to the point of hoping Kiora bonded with him just to see a card from the kraken in BFZ, I am beyond delighted that did not happen. The absolute last thing I would have wanted to see is my favorite creature get shredded by Kozilek.
At this rate just destroy Zendikar. What was once my favorite plane next to Theros is clearly trashed and never going to be what it once was. It can't be Adventure World when its monsters are toast and its continents are wrecked. The treasures an explorer might seek are gone. Just end the place and let's move on. The Eldrazi will be respected and we won't need to deal with a half-assed plane. Sad what's been done to such a vibrant setting. I maintain planes can stand on their own without conflict, but that's not my call. No wonder I can't stand BFZ. Half the set is a trashed world.
So where as Ula just kind of squirmed around and had a sumo match with gideon. Kozilek killed lorthos effortlessly. Geez. They're going to have their hands full with Emrakul.
But writing is an artform,are you guys really vorthos? Do you just accept whatever mediocre thing they give you? Ask for more.Ask for higher quality,I came here hoping to find people that want more from magic,instead I find indeference.This whole acceptance of passable.I enjoyed the current ur and hope it's uphill from here.
"Are you guys even vorthos". Wow, playing the holier than thou game here, huh.
Look, we're just being realistic here. I do want the story and writing to be better, but there's only so much I can ask for. It's like going to McDonalds and demand a 5-stars menu. For free.
Sure you can shout at the McDonalds employees, but that doesn't mean you get what you want.
They do,but a true writer writes because they enjoy it.A creative creates because they must.
Wow that's so oversimplified it's wrong. Nobody works in creative because they just "ended up" in there. It's a highly coveted place to work, everybody who works there actively tried to get in there. They aren't forced to all this. There's probably a bazillion other jobs that are paid better.
Uh in ME3 u had to use your spaceships cannon to bring down a Reaper, wasn't even a big one. In Tuchanka you had to use the giant worm thing. And in the end of the game the only way to bring them down was to take control/destroy/cheat the system.
But you never directly confronted Harbinger, the Reaper who had taunted you for the majority of 2 games because the Reapers were so over built that the big ones were the eldrazi as antagonists are a terrible from the get go for the same reason they can never be reasonably confronted directly, which is somewhat of a requirement when 2 of the Origin's walkers are battlemages, and one summons giant smashy elementals.
Gideon would stand in front of said tank.
Really? That was all he could think of? Gideon has skills, it's called tactics. You never have your general on the front lines, whoever wrote this battle has never played an rts game or clearly has never seen a good war film like Zulu.
It wasn't all he could think of, it was all he could do, he has skills, hit things and take hits, and again it wasn't a great moment in the lore but I can understand the path of thought that the writers took in getting there.
But writing is an artform,are you guys really vorthos? Do you just accept whatever mediocre thing they give you? Ask for more.Ask for higher quality,I came here hoping to find people that want more from magic,instead I find indeference.This whole acceptance of passable.I enjoyed the current ur and hope it's uphill from here.
"Are you guys even vorthos". Wow, playing the holier than thou game here, huh.
Look, we're just being realistic here. I do want the story and writing to be better, but there's only so much I can ask for. It's like going to McDonalds and demand a 5-stars menu. For free.
Sure you can shout at the McDonalds employees, but that doesn't mean you get what you want.
They do,but a true writer writes because they enjoy it.A creative creates because they must.
Wow that's so oversimplified it's wrong. Nobody works in creative because they just "ended up" in there. It's a highly coveted place to work, everybody who works there actively tried to get in there. They aren't forced to all this. There's probably a bazillion other jobs that are paid better.
Claiming to being a vorthos does not make you holier than thou.In magic vorthos are in the bottom of the barrel,I'm glad that they are shifting and putting more effort into story than they have in years,but is it really wrong to ask for better quality? What is this trend of complacency I keep seeing with everything? Just because I have some critiques on something doesn't mean I don't like it.I just always feel there is room for improvement.
I'm using the term creative,not the job,as in a person that creates,an artist.Is this really the age where you can't say anything negative about a product without getting your head chopped off?
If I'm coming off as someone who thinks they are better than everyone,then I apologize.Thats not who I am.I just want quality content even if it's a bloody big mac.
I don't see how Zendikar surviving would be bad writing, or undermines the art of writing a good story. These are not mutually exclusive. A talented author who appreciates a challenge will manage to write a story that satisfies fans with a quality ending that also manages to accomplish what the company wants. It isn't any less artistic to want Zendikar to survive, and frankly that's the more challenging angle to approach at this point. It'll take a well seasoned author to manage that. JK Rowling didn't kill off Harry Potter in book 2 just for the sake of art.
I understand people are judging the motive behind saving Zendikar. That the authors alone and not market research should influence how the story should progress. But we also can't judge the journey by the outcome. Think of the authors being commissioned to write a story the same way artists are to paint an image from a description from a world guide. WOTC establishes a bare bones example of what they want, but the artists work within those descriptions and their challenges to create something worth appreciating.
If it were up to me at this point, Zendikar would be destroyed. But that's just me.
That's cause you and I are Therans at heart. I admit Zendikar has yet to pull me as it has with others. I was absent from magic for quite some time and missed the original Zendikar so take this with a grain of salt, so It could just be the BFZ block.
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Wizards. listen. The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
I am Theran at heart, true. But Zendikar is one of my favorite planes as well. My issue is, I want either the original, intact Zendikar or nothing. I don't appreciate how it's trashed now.
I don't see how Zendikar surviving would be bad writing, or undermines the art of writing a good story. These are not mutually exclusive. A talented author who appreciates a challenge will manage to write a story that satisfies fans with a quality ending that also manages to accomplish what the company wants. It isn't any less artistic to want Zendikar to survive, and frankly that's the more challenging angle to approach at this point. It'll take a well seasoned author to manage that. JK Rowling didn't kill off Harry Potter in book 2 just for the sake of art.
I understand people are judging the motive behind saving Zendikar. That the authors alone and not market research should influence how the story should progress. But we also can't judge the journey by the outcome. Think of the authors being commissioned to write a story the same way artists are to paint an image from a description from a world guide. WOTC establishes a bare bones example of what they want, but the artists work within those descriptions and their challenges to create something worth appreciating.
If it were up to me at this point, Zendikar would be destroyed. But that's just me.
JK Rowling did kill off a whole host of characters besides Harry to show how much of a colossal threat Voldemort and his death eaters were. We don't really yet have that for the Eldrazi. Yeah they've eaten and killed a bunch of Zendikar, but that's really been off screen really, and until this last story with Kiora, they've actually done no damage to anyone or anything we really care about. The sentiment is, is that killing Zendikar is like killing Cedric. Its the first time we'll actually see how dangerous and scary the Eldrazi actually are. If they don't we have to just continue along with the story line and just take their word that the Eldrazi are as dangerous as they say they are without really feeling how dangerous they are, and that is bad story telling. Like could you take Voldemort seriously as a threat if he never really killed anyone?
the spoiled card Crush of Tentacles makes me wonder if the monsters of the deep awakened after Lorthos's death, or that Kiora survived and once again commanded them.
I don't see how Zendikar surviving would be bad writing, or undermines the art of writing a good story. These are not mutually exclusive. A talented author who appreciates a challenge will manage to write a story that satisfies fans with a quality ending that also manages to accomplish what the company wants. It isn't any less artistic to want Zendikar to survive, and frankly that's the more challenging angle to approach at this point. It'll take a well seasoned author to manage that. JK Rowling didn't kill off Harry Potter in book 2 just for the sake of art.
I understand people are judging the motive behind saving Zendikar. That the authors alone and not market research should influence how the story should progress. But we also can't judge the journey by the outcome. Think of the authors being commissioned to write a story the same way artists are to paint an image from a description from a world guide. WOTC establishes a bare bones example of what they want, but the artists work within those descriptions and their challenges to create something worth appreciating.
If it were up to me at this point, Zendikar would be destroyed. But that's just me.
This is a good point,let's just hope they haven't written themselves into a corner,it's going to be quite a challenge saving the plane without making it feel deus ex machina.I just don't like the feeling of business meddling with the stories,it's like when business executives butt in on shows and ruin them,same goes for movies.Its like someone hiring a famous chef and then telling them what ingredients to put in.
So Ulamog corrupts body and everything physical it seems. Kozilek corrupts mind, soul, and all that jazz. What does good, ol', Emrakul corrupt?
I'm don't think they've ever stated it, but I was under the impression Emrakul corrupts nonliving concepts, such as gravity
In the PW guide to BFZ it's stated that Emrakul actually only affects living things. Lifeless things like water or stone are unaffected, but anything living (plants, animals) becomes corrupted (we don't really know how bit it kind of sounds like she mutates stuff) This would seem to contradict cards like Gravitational Shift, but I actually don't think it does. The corruption of living matter is what Emrakul does, the twisting of reality, gravity, and time is just the affect that Emrakul's presence has on planes
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
I actually think it would be awesome to see a plane on the brink of destruction and then has to repair itself. It would be interesting to see how new leylines are drawn and how the landscape fills back in. The next visit to Zendikar could illistrate how mana redistributed across the plane and how once towering mountains are now lowly swamps. Of course there might still be traces of old mana there constituting new duel lands.
What's more adventurous than mapping out landscapes that you once knew that now may be totally different??
the spoiled card Crush of Tentacles makes me wonder if the monsters of the deep awakened after Lorthos's death, or that Kiora survived and once again commanded them.
...or that the denizens of the deep are super enraged because their father was just killed. (This is assuming Lorthos fathered a great many underwater creatures on Zendikar.)
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Thanks to XenoNinja at Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig.
Another user made this point earlier but it for subsumed by the death of Zendikar coversation: Lorthos isn't actually dead is he? Kiora used a summoning spell rather than calling actual Lorthos and waiting for him to arrive. Does it work differently because they're on the same plane and he was teleported to their position or does it still work like Doug explained once upon a time and Kiora just created Lorthos-ness from mana?
Unknown, but it effectively doesn't matter. By having Lorthos die onscreen I doubt the'll ever use or refer to him again just to avoid having to explain why he is/isn't really dead. Summoning VS calling seems to be a concept potentially difficult to explain as well as narritively damaging.
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Wizards. listen. The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
The legend I'm most irked about not even getting a story mention this entire time is obviously Omnath. But also, where's Iona? She's ginormous, has a great ability, is referenced on other cards, was noteworthy for not wearing a halo...is she the last angelic holdout on the plane? Or is she gone?
Kazuul, Thada, and Wrexial I care less about because their roles could easily be filled by other characters (e.g. Jori En could have been Thada) and Linvala seemed like a way to get a needed effect onto a Standard card more than anything.
Actually, Kazuul, if I remember correctly, did get a short story during original Zendikar. But yes, no mention in BFZ.
...or that the denizens of the deep are super enraged because their father was just killed. (This is assuming Lorthos fathered a great many underwater creatures on Zendikar.)
You saw all those tentacles. I'll bet sea creatures were lining up to make more calamari. (Is that too inappropriate? I sure hope not.)
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A giant dork. Who likes to eat with forks. Never used a spork.
Decks: Casual R Burn R
EDH R Godo Voltron R RUG ETB Overload RUG BW Clerics Pain and Drain BW GW Spirits!!! GW RUG Landfall Silliness RUG
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But writing is an artform,are you guys really vorthos? Do you just accept whatever mediocre thing they give you? Ask for more.Ask for higher quality,I came here hoping to find people that want more from magic,instead I find indeference.This whole acceptance of passable.I enjoyed the current ur and hope it's uphill from here.
They do,but a true writer writes because they enjoy it.A creative creates because they must.
Thank you. And everyone who read as well. I wouldn't say I hate Kiora, but I will say her behavior on Theros and especially since Theros warranted this outcome for her. She wasn't altruistic about Zendikar so much as being defiant and a victim of her own hubris, especially when she planeswalked away with the Bident thinking she did anything but set herself up for repercussions. Kiora may be bitter (and rightfully so) regarding her faith being revealed as a sham, but that's simply Zendikar's truth, not that of all planes, or Theros. She became so self reliant, in fact, that she cast herself as a false god without realizing it. On Theros she took advantage of Thassa's absence and on Zendikar she styled herself as Cosi in her own deluded stories. So in reality, she told herself the same lie. Her using a blood-stained Bident was a nice artistic touch that's an insightful way or showing the legacy of loss Kiora has left behind with the object of all her arrogance. But what's sad about her is, where should her trust be, then? If not with gods, and not exclusively in herself, then what? That's her journey now.
I loved the scene of Ulamog and Kozilek converging before the attack on Lorthos. It further highlights the theme of natural vs. alien, plane vs. blind eternities. And it demonstrates how unique the spark is, to allow an individual to transverse a realm harsher than even tempestuous Zendikar.
For Lorthos, I believe he is dead. Summoning copies from the aether off other planes works, but I believe she cast the one and only original Lorthos off the same plane when the Bident allowed her to gather his essence. The idea that she didn't even dare or bother trying to command Lorthos before owning the Bident seems to confirm to me my theory that the reason she failed to make a bond with Arixmethes and control her own sea monsters (even those from foreign planes) against Thassa was because the Bident's influence on ocean animals is simply too powerful to overcome. The fact the Bident works on Zendikar at all confirms magic is essentially universal, which it would be.
As badly as I wanted an Arixmethes card ASAP, even to the point of hoping Kiora bonded with him just to see a card from the kraken in BFZ, I am beyond delighted that did not happen. The absolute last thing I would have wanted to see is my favorite creature get shredded by Kozilek.
At this rate just destroy Zendikar. What was once my favorite plane next to Theros is clearly trashed and never going to be what it once was. It can't be Adventure World when its monsters are toast and its continents are wrecked. The treasures an explorer might seek are gone. Just end the place and let's move on. The Eldrazi will be respected and we won't need to deal with a half-assed plane. Sad what's been done to such a vibrant setting. I maintain planes can stand on their own without conflict, but that's not my call. No wonder I can't stand BFZ. Half the set is a trashed world.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Reach out and torch someone . . .
"Are you guys even vorthos". Wow, playing the holier than thou game here, huh.
Look, we're just being realistic here. I do want the story and writing to be better, but there's only so much I can ask for. It's like going to McDonalds and demand a 5-stars menu. For free.
Sure you can shout at the McDonalds employees, but that doesn't mean you get what you want.
Wow that's so oversimplified it's wrong. Nobody works in creative because they just "ended up" in there. It's a highly coveted place to work, everybody who works there actively tried to get in there. They aren't forced to all this. There's probably a bazillion other jobs that are paid better.
I'm don't think they've ever stated it, but I was under the impression Emrakul corrupts nonliving concepts, such as gravity
But you never directly confronted Harbinger, the Reaper who had taunted you for the majority of 2 games because the Reapers were so over built that the big ones were the eldrazi as antagonists are a terrible from the get go for the same reason they can never be reasonably confronted directly, which is somewhat of a requirement when 2 of the Origin's walkers are battlemages, and one summons giant smashy elementals.
It wasn't all he could think of, it was all he could do, he has skills, hit things and take hits, and again it wasn't a great moment in the lore but I can understand the path of thought that the writers took in getting there.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
Indeed. Looks like she's still alive and pissed. No she's not on the picture but she is the only one with a fleet of squids around.
UBarrin, Master WizardU
USticher GeralfU
UIxidor, Reality SculptorU
UWNoyan Dar, Roil ShaperUW
Claiming to being a vorthos does not make you holier than thou.In magic vorthos are in the bottom of the barrel,I'm glad that they are shifting and putting more effort into story than they have in years,but is it really wrong to ask for better quality? What is this trend of complacency I keep seeing with everything? Just because I have some critiques on something doesn't mean I don't like it.I just always feel there is room for improvement.
I'm using the term creative,not the job,as in a person that creates,an artist.Is this really the age where you can't say anything negative about a product without getting your head chopped off?
If I'm coming off as someone who thinks they are better than everyone,then I apologize.Thats not who I am.I just want quality content even if it's a bloody big mac.
I understand people are judging the motive behind saving Zendikar. That the authors alone and not market research should influence how the story should progress. But we also can't judge the journey by the outcome. Think of the authors being commissioned to write a story the same way artists are to paint an image from a description from a world guide. WOTC establishes a bare bones example of what they want, but the artists work within those descriptions and their challenges to create something worth appreciating.
If it were up to me at this point, Zendikar would be destroyed. But that's just me.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
JK Rowling did kill off a whole host of characters besides Harry to show how much of a colossal threat Voldemort and his death eaters were. We don't really yet have that for the Eldrazi. Yeah they've eaten and killed a bunch of Zendikar, but that's really been off screen really, and until this last story with Kiora, they've actually done no damage to anyone or anything we really care about. The sentiment is, is that killing Zendikar is like killing Cedric. Its the first time we'll actually see how dangerous and scary the Eldrazi actually are. If they don't we have to just continue along with the story line and just take their word that the Eldrazi are as dangerous as they say they are without really feeling how dangerous they are, and that is bad story telling. Like could you take Voldemort seriously as a threat if he never really killed anyone?
This is a good point,let's just hope they haven't written themselves into a corner,it's going to be quite a challenge saving the plane without making it feel deus ex machina.I just don't like the feeling of business meddling with the stories,it's like when business executives butt in on shows and ruin them,same goes for movies.Its like someone hiring a famous chef and then telling them what ingredients to put in.
In the PW guide to BFZ it's stated that Emrakul actually only affects living things. Lifeless things like water or stone are unaffected, but anything living (plants, animals) becomes corrupted (we don't really know how bit it kind of sounds like she mutates stuff) This would seem to contradict cards like Gravitational Shift, but I actually don't think it does. The corruption of living matter is what Emrakul does, the twisting of reality, gravity, and time is just the affect that Emrakul's presence has on planes
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
What's more adventurous than mapping out landscapes that you once knew that now may be totally different??
Thanks to XenoNinja at Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig.
...or that the denizens of the deep are super enraged because their father was just killed. (This is assuming Lorthos fathered a great many underwater creatures on Zendikar.)
Thanks to XenoNinja at Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig.
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
Actually, Kazuul, if I remember correctly, did get a short story during original Zendikar. But yes, no mention in BFZ.
The rules of summoning are officially undefined because any explanation will raise too many questions or cause too many contradictions.
You saw all those tentacles. I'll bet sea creatures were lining up to make more calamari. (Is that too inappropriate? I sure hope not.)
Decks:
Casual
R Burn R
EDH
R Godo Voltron R
RUG ETB Overload RUG
BW Clerics Pain and Drain BW
GW Spirits!!! GW
RUG Landfall Silliness RUG