You're missing the nuance here: whatever anyone accomplishes is within one's power. Whatever one does not accomplish was evidently not within their power to do.
The kind of moral perspective you mention, or lack thereof (I don't see the amorality or nihilism present in your interpretation, but that doesn't mean that your take is wrong), is really the sort of conflict among your heroes when you're dealing with a threat like the Eldrazi that, on their own, a more catalysts for character development among said heroes. As opposed to more humanized villains with goals and backgrounds we can understand.
The only thing compelling Nissa is her interpretation of what's "natural" from among the choices you present. That's where the meat of your story comes from; the character does whatever they want and then deal with the blowback from their decisions. Balance this with the perspectives of Zendikari that would see her as a monster, her fellow planeswalkers that would be perplexed, baffled and annoyed, and the whims of her elemental patron whatshername.
Again, I just love this stuff because it adds some meat and flavor to an otherwise bland scenario.
There was Jarad vod Savo from the Ravnica novels. He was a good necromancer.
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord? I read the first two Ravnica Novels with Jace, but missed the third one. Does he show up there? I don't remember of him in the first two novels. Looks weird that he would be a good guy, but I guess everything is possible... it would be the first good necromancer.
He shows up in the old Ravnica novels yeah he would fit the the concept of a good black character. He is versed in necromancy but not as much as Savra was. The one thing we have seen him do is possess his own corpse. He always relied more on his physical skills and that awesome ability where he could control bugs. A shame he did not feature in RTR. But then again, Teysa did and the results were not good.
Guys everyone is allowed their opinion. Regardless of how poorly she is written I still like the new Nissa character, and i know others at least tolerate her too. That said if someone thonks her getting killed by Garuck is funny that is also totally ok. We're all just killing time till Tamiyo and Tybalt become the primary characters
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
The only thing compelling Nissa is her interpretation of what's "natural" from among the choices you present.
I guess my problem with this is that there's no way for Nissa to make such a decision without adopting a different philosophy in the process so there's no reason for her to have believed in some largely meaningless notion of "nature" to begin with.
I think the whole point of Nissa sympathising with the Eldrazi is moot. Nissa is not about embracing all life, she's about Zendikar. She gives far greater emphasis to its elementals, nature and plantlife rather than its animals or people.
The eldrazi are not just something outside Zendikar. They are an unnatural force that actively tries to consume it. Their minds and nature are too alien for anyone to comprehend or emphasise with them.
They are an unnatural force that actively tries to consume it.
Ehhhhhhhhh. I mean it largely depends on how you define "natural", but from all we know the Eldrazi have no artificial origin.
You could say, though, that Nissa's focus isn't life in general but native life. In this way the Eldrazi would represent an invasive species and this would very well give a green mage reason to oppose a 'natural' enemy.
I was hoping they would someday address her plans to topple the Ghost Council. Makes me wonder how far in advance they had this planned out.
Holding out hope for another glimpse into Ravnica in the future where we see how she recovers from this.
Dimir and Orzhov have always been flavor wins for Ravnica. In fact i cannot imagine a better portrayl of those 2 color combinations. This story was one more excellent example of Orzhov being a religious Gangster family. No matter how strong you are, there someone old enough to surpass you, provided he has survived of course. Pure mafia.
Apart from the flavor, this story told us nothing. Teysa keeps trying, Boros characters remain blunt and boring and when we got close to resolving the mystery behind the room, it abruptly ended. This is what the author implied: ''You know ma have thought something about a new storyarc revolving Orzhov but you will have to wait for the next return to Ravnica.''
I'm more worried about Tajic than anyone else If he got turned into a thrull or ghost in debt, damn. Without his legion, he's just a 2/2, being indestructible means he will go through that much more pain. >_<
Although one could hope that Orzhov dungeon is not immune to Boros spells.
According to the lore, only four guild masters survived the initiate Guild Pact: Niv-Mizzet, Ghost Council, Razia, and Rakdos. If the power of Obzedat within that vault is even older than Ghost Council (at least in theory), it has to be... a Nico Bolas plot!!!
Sorry, just have to. Nico Bolas Plot is as legit as Nemesis Plot.
I'm more worried about Tajic than anyone else If he got turned into a thrull or ghost in debt, damn. Without his legion, he's just a 2/2, being indestructible means he will go through that much more pain. >_<
Although one could hope that Orzhov dungeon is not immune to Boros spells.
According to the lore, only four guild masters survived the initiate Guild Pact: Niv-Mizzet, Ghost Council, Razia, and Rakdos. If the power of Obzedat within that vault is even older than Ghost Council (at least in theory), it has to be... a Nico Bolas plot!!!
Sorry, just have to. Nico Bolas Plot is as legit as Nemesis Plot.
Wouldn't be surprised. Bolas is behind all of teh 3\/!L in the MTG. Even your socks.
You know what I found interesting about this story? I loved it overall, but the way Teysa referred to Karlov in the story. Here were my feelings trough when I was reading.
Teysa is reading the law book she wrote (oh cool! no retcon here yet). Teysa calls Karlov Grandfather (Huh? Isn't that her Uncle? Canon error?). When their in the gaudy tomb of Obzedat corpses and she refers to the newest one as Uncle (So it is Uncle Karlov!). Then when Karlov appears again they go back to using Granddaughter and Grandfather talk.
So now my theory is, if the original 3 novels are still canon with Karlov being her Uncle, then I think Uncle Karlov after becoming a member of the Ghost Council has been making Teysa call him grandfather instead of Uncle, maybe reflecting how more stern he has become now that he is part of the council.
Also, Teysa is 112 years old eh? Well now I must go and re-examine my data to see if I can figure out any new information about timelines.
You know what I found interesting about this story? I loved it overall, but the way Teysa referred to Karlov in the story. Here were my feelings trough when I was reading.
Teysa is reading the law book she wrote (oh cool! no retcon here yet). Teysa calls Karlov Grandfather (Huh? Isn't that her Uncle? Canon error?). When their in the gaudy tomb of Obzedat corpses and she refers to the newest one as Uncle (So it is Uncle Karlov!). Then when Karlov appears again they go back to using Granddaughter and Grandfather talk.
So now my theory is, if the original 3 novels are still canon with Karlov being her Uncle, then I think Uncle Karlov after becoming a member of the Ghost Council has been making Teysa call him grandfather instead of Uncle, maybe reflecting how more stern he has become now that he is part of the council.
Also, Teysa is 112 years old eh? Well now I must go and re-examine my data to see if I can figure out any new information about timelines.
Is it just possible (and simpler explanation) that this Karlov is not the Uncle from original novels,but another GC-ed Karlov, a true grandfather to her?
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Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
You know what I found interesting about this story? I loved it overall, but the way Teysa referred to Karlov in the story. Here were my feelings trough when I was reading.
Teysa is reading the law book she wrote (oh cool! no retcon here yet). Teysa calls Karlov Grandfather (Huh? Isn't that her Uncle? Canon error?). When their in the gaudy tomb of Obzedat corpses and she refers to the newest one as Uncle (So it is Uncle Karlov!). Then when Karlov appears again they go back to using Granddaughter and Grandfather talk.
So now my theory is, if the original 3 novels are still canon with Karlov being her Uncle, then I think Uncle Karlov after becoming a member of the Ghost Council has been making Teysa call him grandfather instead of Uncle, maybe reflecting how more stern he has become now that he is part of the council.
Also, Teysa is 112 years old eh? Well now I must go and re-examine my data to see if I can figure out any new information about timelines.
Is it possible that Teysa has both an Uncle Karlov and a Grandfather Karlov?
You know what I found interesting about this story? I loved it overall, but the way Teysa referred to Karlov in the story. Here were my feelings trough when I was reading.
Teysa is reading the law book she wrote (oh cool! no retcon here yet). Teysa calls Karlov Grandfather (Huh? Isn't that her Uncle? Canon error?). When their in the gaudy tomb of Obzedat corpses and she refers to the newest one as Uncle (So it is Uncle Karlov!). Then when Karlov appears again they go back to using Granddaughter and Grandfather talk.
So now my theory is, if the original 3 novels are still canon with Karlov being her Uncle, then I think Uncle Karlov after becoming a member of the Ghost Council has been making Teysa call him grandfather instead of Uncle, maybe reflecting how more stern he has become now that he is part of the council.
Also, Teysa is 112 years old eh? Well now I must go and re-examine my data to see if I can figure out any new information about timelines.
Is it possible that Teysa has both an Uncle Karlov and a Grandfather Karlov?
That was actually a 2nd theory I had thought of, but wasn't sure if it held any ground. Especially given that, in the storyline itself (though I'm about to re-read the original books just in case), we have never been notified as to another member of the Ghost Council being a Karlov. Also, the art work of Karlov is a good representation as to the description we got of Uncle Karlov when he was alive.
You know what I found interesting about this story? I loved it overall, but the way Teysa referred to Karlov in the story. Here were my feelings trough when I was reading.
Teysa is reading the law book she wrote (oh cool! no retcon here yet). Teysa calls Karlov Grandfather (Huh? Isn't that her Uncle? Canon error?). When their in the gaudy tomb of Obzedat corpses and she refers to the newest one as Uncle (So it is Uncle Karlov!). Then when Karlov appears again they go back to using Granddaughter and Grandfather talk.
So now my theory is, if the original 3 novels are still canon with Karlov being her Uncle, then I think Uncle Karlov after becoming a member of the Ghost Council has been making Teysa call him grandfather instead of Uncle, maybe reflecting how more stern he has become now that he is part of the council.
Also, Teysa is 112 years old eh? Well now I must go and re-examine my data to see if I can figure out any new information about timelines.
Is it possible that Teysa has both an Uncle Karlov and a Grandfather Karlov?
Oh dear, Uncle-Grandpa Karlov?
Also does this mean the end of Tajic- guild aliance storyline? Also do the Orzhov have black hole sun exile?
Tower+ 7 floors+ crippled= That's rather cruel along with striping one of the position one has worked hard for.
Also can she ask Jace to delegate some powers to her or let him know about that spot?
So glad they revisited this storyline! And I loved the dynamic/friendship between Teysa and Tajic. It's fun to see people from two very different guilds have such a bond. The Obzedat and their mob-politics are so interesting to me. I was sad when they got no role in the RTR storyline. Would love to see more of them and this storyline become somewhat of a major plot. Hopefully, as some have said, we won't have to wait until Return to Return to Ravnica for the next part!
Is it possible that Teysa has both an Uncle Karlov and a Grandfather Karlov?
Based on information about the Orzhov tradition of inbreeding, it is possible that that Karlov is both Uncle and Grandfather to Teysa. Karlov sires Teysa's mother, and her mother's sister, marries mother's sister, thus technically becoming an uncle. Or marries father's sister becoming an uncle as well. Or some goofy time travel scenario where Karlov goes back in time and sires children with his own mother in Teysa's direct line.
Of course it is also possible that it is easier to ascend to the Ghost Council if an ancestor is already part of it. Nepotism at it's best. Karlov arranges for his namesake son, who is the brother of Teysa's father, to become part of the Obzedat.
Is it just me or does the Living Guildpact frequently forget he is a telepath, thus allowing multiple individuals to deceive him with ulterior motives?
Is it just me or does the Living Guildpact frequently forget he is a telepath, thus allowing multiple individuals to deceive him with ulterior motives?
Well, would Jace really oppose what Teysa was trying to accomplish here?
Is it just me or does the Living Guildpact frequently forget he is a telepath, thus allowing multiple individuals to deceive him with ulterior motives?
I'm going to let this time of not thinking slide for Jace, because from the description of him packing grappling hooks etc... I feel like this was an area in time when he was more focused on packing for his trip to Zendikar. He did get like a day to prepare since he made Gideon go see a healer.
Is it just me or does the Living Guildpact frequently forget he is a telepath, thus allowing multiple individuals to deceive him with ulterior motives?
I'm going to let this time of not thinking slide for Jace, because from the description of him packing grappling hooks etc... I feel like this was an area in time when he was more focused on packing for his trip to Zendikar. He did get like a day to prepare since he made Gideon go see a healer.
^This. She clearly timed her visit for when he was busy trying to do something else and would be distracted. Jace isn't so good with the multitasking.
Is it just me or does the Living Guildpact frequently forget he is a telepath, thus allowing multiple individuals to deceive him with ulterior motives?
Well, would Jace really oppose what Teysa was trying to accomplish here?
Unclear. I believe it is unlikely he would. My point being, that for an individual who represents a color so fascinated with the accumulation of knowledge, he sure does neglect the use his primary power in his interactions with other individuals when it would really be beneficial to know their true intentions. I understand if Jace was truly omniscient it would make storytelling bland and less intriguing. However now he is both physically inept and mentally inferior in recent UR stories. Why is this guy the face of MtG again?
It is not altogether dissimilar from Superman storylines where we all know he is only slightly slower than the Flash with the reflexes to match but some normal human with some overpowered weapon always gets the drop on him.
The kind of moral perspective you mention, or lack thereof (I don't see the amorality or nihilism present in your interpretation, but that doesn't mean that your take is wrong), is really the sort of conflict among your heroes when you're dealing with a threat like the Eldrazi that, on their own, a more catalysts for character development among said heroes. As opposed to more humanized villains with goals and backgrounds we can understand.
The only thing compelling Nissa is her interpretation of what's "natural" from among the choices you present. That's where the meat of your story comes from; the character does whatever they want and then deal with the blowback from their decisions. Balance this with the perspectives of Zendikari that would see her as a monster, her fellow planeswalkers that would be perplexed, baffled and annoyed, and the whims of her elemental patron whatshername.
Again, I just love this stuff because it adds some meat and flavor to an otherwise bland scenario.
He shows up in the old Ravnica novels yeah he would fit the the concept of a good black character. He is versed in necromancy but not as much as Savra was. The one thing we have seen him do is possess his own corpse. He always relied more on his physical skills and that awesome ability where he could control bugs. A shame he did not feature in RTR. But then again, Teysa did and the results were not good.
UBarrin, Master WizardU
USticher GeralfU
UIxidor, Reality SculptorU
UWNoyan Dar, Roil ShaperUW
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
I guess my problem with this is that there's no way for Nissa to make such a decision without adopting a different philosophy in the process so there's no reason for her to have believed in some largely meaningless notion of "nature" to begin with.
The eldrazi are not just something outside Zendikar. They are an unnatural force that actively tries to consume it. Their minds and nature are too alien for anyone to comprehend or emphasise with them.
UBarrin, Master WizardU
USticher GeralfU
UIxidor, Reality SculptorU
UWNoyan Dar, Roil ShaperUW
Ehhhhhhhhh. I mean it largely depends on how you define "natural", but from all we know the Eldrazi have no artificial origin.
You could say, though, that Nissa's focus isn't life in general but native life. In this way the Eldrazi would represent an invasive species and this would very well give a green mage reason to oppose a 'natural' enemy.
I was hoping they would someday address her plans to topple the Ghost Council. Makes me wonder how far in advance they had this planned out.
Holding out hope for another glimpse into Ravnica in the future where we see how she recovers from this.
Click the pic for more info.
Well written, Tajik was hillarigreat. I wasn't excited for the inevitable ravnica UR but this wasn't bad. Would have liked to see the bug guy.
Apart from the flavor, this story told us nothing. Teysa keeps trying, Boros characters remain blunt and boring and when we got close to resolving the mystery behind the room, it abruptly ended. This is what the author implied: ''You know ma have thought something about a new storyarc revolving Orzhov but you will have to wait for the next return to Ravnica.''
Although one could hope that Orzhov dungeon is not immune to Boros spells.
According to the lore, only four guild masters survived the initiate Guild Pact: Niv-Mizzet, Ghost Council, Razia, and Rakdos. If the power of Obzedat within that vault is even older than Ghost Council (at least in theory), it has to be... a Nico Bolas plot!!!
Sorry, just have to. Nico Bolas Plot is as legit as Nemesis Plot.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Wouldn't be surprised. Bolas is behind all of teh 3\/!L in the MTG. Even your socks.
Click the pic for more info.
Teysa is reading the law book she wrote (oh cool! no retcon here yet). Teysa calls Karlov Grandfather (Huh? Isn't that her Uncle? Canon error?). When their in the gaudy tomb of Obzedat corpses and she refers to the newest one as Uncle (So it is Uncle Karlov!). Then when Karlov appears again they go back to using Granddaughter and Grandfather talk.
So now my theory is, if the original 3 novels are still canon with Karlov being her Uncle, then I think Uncle Karlov after becoming a member of the Ghost Council has been making Teysa call him grandfather instead of Uncle, maybe reflecting how more stern he has become now that he is part of the council.
Also, Teysa is 112 years old eh? Well now I must go and re-examine my data to see if I can figure out any new information about timelines.
Is it just possible (and simpler explanation) that this Karlov is not the Uncle from original novels,but another GC-ed Karlov, a true grandfather to her?
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Is it possible that Teysa has both an Uncle Karlov and a Grandfather Karlov?
That was actually a 2nd theory I had thought of, but wasn't sure if it held any ground. Especially given that, in the storyline itself (though I'm about to re-read the original books just in case), we have never been notified as to another member of the Ghost Council being a Karlov. Also, the art work of Karlov is a good representation as to the description we got of Uncle Karlov when he was alive.
Oh dear, Uncle-Grandpa Karlov?
Also does this mean the end of Tajic- guild aliance storyline? Also do the Orzhov have black hole sun exile?
Tower+ 7 floors+ crippled= That's rather cruel along with striping one of the position one has worked hard for.
Also can she ask Jace to delegate some powers to her or let him know about that spot?
Based on information about the Orzhov tradition of inbreeding, it is possible that that Karlov is both Uncle and Grandfather to Teysa. Karlov sires Teysa's mother, and her mother's sister, marries mother's sister, thus technically becoming an uncle. Or marries father's sister becoming an uncle as well. Or some goofy time travel scenario where Karlov goes back in time and sires children with his own mother in Teysa's direct line.
Of course it is also possible that it is easier to ascend to the Ghost Council if an ancestor is already part of it. Nepotism at it's best. Karlov arranges for his namesake son, who is the brother of Teysa's father, to become part of the Obzedat.
Well, would Jace really oppose what Teysa was trying to accomplish here?
I'm going to let this time of not thinking slide for Jace, because from the description of him packing grappling hooks etc... I feel like this was an area in time when he was more focused on packing for his trip to Zendikar. He did get like a day to prepare since he made Gideon go see a healer.
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Unclear. I believe it is unlikely he would. My point being, that for an individual who represents a color so fascinated with the accumulation of knowledge, he sure does neglect the use his primary power in his interactions with other individuals when it would really be beneficial to know their true intentions. I understand if Jace was truly omniscient it would make storytelling bland and less intriguing. However now he is both physically inept and mentally inferior in recent UR stories. Why is this guy the face of MtG again?
It is not altogether dissimilar from Superman storylines where we all know he is only slightly slower than the Flash with the reflexes to match but some normal human with some overpowered weapon always gets the drop on him.
Jace isn't so good at anything lately.